Suddenly, there aren’t as many questions about Mike Richards’ game. Richards had 11 goals and nine assists in his first 25 games this season, then suffered a concussion and missed three weeks of action. In his first 23 games after his return, Richards had only three goals and four assists. That led to a natural question: Was Richards still feeling some effects of the concussion? Perhaps the question should have been, “Is it his linemates?’’
Few things are black and white, but is it just a coincidence that Richards has looked like a different player in the past two games, playing between rookie wingers Dwight King and Jordan Nolan? Richards had five shots on goal Saturday against the New York Islanders, and then made a perfect no-look centering pass on Nolan’s game-winning goal last night in Dallas. After the game against the Islanders, Richards noted how King and Nolan opened up space on the ice with their work ethic. Richards excels when given that space. It’s not unfair to question whether playing with Dustin Penner wasn’t allowing Richards to have that space. Darryl Sutter, rarely prone to extreme praise or criticism, offered this when asked about Richards’ last two games.
SUTTER: “I think that everybody is way too critical of Mike Richards. What he brings is not just measured in statistics.’’
Again…Penner didn’t know how good he had it….annoying…
[Reply]
Weasel Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
@tellmeY,
Seems like he’s just the oddball player who can’t make it work here. Like Chone Figgins going to Seattle and just forgetting how to play baseball at all….
[Reply]
Kenny44 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
@Weasel,
I miss Puddin, too
[Reply]
Sweet photograph.
[Reply]
Telos Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
@LA_1968, Seriously, I can’t find that picture anywhere, it is a terrific picture. Any chance of posting the full original, Rich?
[Reply]
Jamesonafterawin Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
@Telos, Yes please Rich. 3rd.
[Reply]
LA_1968 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
@Telos, Could it be from the video game NHL 12?
[Reply]
ddc Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
@Telos,
i just dragged and dropped the pic to my desktop, and it’s of good resolution…
[Reply]
purple and gold Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:01 pm
@Telos, right click the image and then click view image, you get the full size.
[Reply]
lefttt Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 11:16 pm
@Telos, check their tumblr account, they always post these pics
[Reply]
Sebastian Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
@LA_1968, my thought as well, would love to save that picture for a desktop background.
[Reply]
LA_1968 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
@Sebastian, Right click it and open in new tab. Full size is there.
[Reply]
jp Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
@LA_1968, Just FYI to everyone looking for the photo, the LA Kings Tumblr posted this and other aerial shots, in addition tons of great photos after every game. Check it out:
http://thelosangeleskings.tumblr.com/
[Reply]
Now that we are past “Pancakes with Penner”, it is time for “Martinis with Mike”
[Reply]
Steve W Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
@fuzzerson, Or “Doughnuts with Drew”-Sorry-low blow.
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Man, if all it takes to impress Richards at this point is a couple of rookies’ work ethic…
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Cool pic!
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I wanted the Penner “experiment” to work, but clearly it hasn’t and it won’t. He shows flashes of the type of player he can be, but it is once every 4 or 5 games. If the dude can’t step it up in a contract year, then it won’t ever happen! I don’t want to see Penner on the ice for the Kings ever again! Who’s with me?!?!
[Reply]
Alex Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
@Todd S., I’m with u!!!! Penner sucks!!!
[Reply]
Cruiznblue Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
@Todd S.,
The only way I’d want him back is if he signs a super discounted contract in the offseason…like $1mil max. Would be nice to have incase of injuries for short term…or maybe he can be a 4th liner and learn to use his big frame.
But I’m feeling his days are numbered with the kings…
[Reply]
Todd S. Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@Cruiznblue,
I agree with you there. He’d have to sign for WAY less money and free up some cap space in order to stick around with the Kings. I just don’t think he’ll do that…
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:09 pm
@Cruiznblue,
Offer him $250k in IHOP gift certificates and he would sign. Once he reaches 300 pounds, put him in goalie gear and prop him up in front of the net every 8-10 games to give JQ and JB a break.
[Reply]
Jamesonafterawin Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@Todd S., Yup. But I do like how he has a tendenacy to make other player’s on the other team to look like fools. But just not often enuff.
[Reply]
Bickleton Wigglesworth III Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@Todd S.,
Agreed. I really thought he’d have a great year. Even two weeks ago I would have said “keep him in the line-up, he could break out any game now -besides there aren’t any better options.”. But now it seems to be clear that his laziness and soft play was contagious and affecting the whole team. Good riddance.
[Reply]
Cruiznblue Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
@Bickleton Wigglesworth III,
Remember all the hype about how hard he worked in the offseason to get in shape? Guess that really paid off…lol.
[Reply]
Trade penner!!!!!!!
[Reply]
Todd S. Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
@Alex, What GM would take him? Tambellini in Edmonton? I know Penner never wanted to leave the Oilers, but I don’t see DL calling Tambellini any time soon after that whole Fraser mess. The whole world knows Penner is lazy, so if we had any takers, what would we get in return?
[Reply]
Bickleton Wigglesworth III Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
@Todd S., The market is so bad this year someone will take a flyer on him. But no way we get more than a fourth round pick for him.
[Reply]
Sebastian Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
@Alex, to who? what team do you think is out there looking to become better and find the extra piece to get them playoff success saying…”man we really gotta trade for Dustin Penner”
who would pay $4+m for 5 goals and 8 assists?
[Reply]
LA_1968 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
@Sebastian, I’m just throwing this out there…I don’t think Detroit would want the cancer that is Penner but… They have almost $20 million in space. Penner would probably be able to find the net with that offense. Heck, I’d take a last round pick for him just for the cap space IN CASE there are any good winger rentals.
[Reply]
Perro Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:02 pm
@Alex, Burke with the Leafs has always been big on him. He hated loosing him to edmonotn on an offer sheet. Plsu he is constantly saying how they need to big forwards.
See what they would offer and take it DL,
[Reply]
bmova Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
@Perro, I read an article on sportsnet.ca regarding that. Burke wants to wait until DL is desperate/wants to dump salary so it won’t cost Burke very much, if anything.
[Reply]
zulov Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
@Perro, Penner for Kulemin – that would be just fine for us.
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Penner never put himself in the right place for Richards to make use of him because Penner doesn’t have the hockey sense to mesh with Richard’s….
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That no look play was the first sign of Richards having a clear head. All his sneaky plays had been absent: feathering passes through sticks and legs, picking the pocket of a guy looking the other way on the boards, intercepting passes on the PK, and some timely hits. Right, he does a ton of things that don’t show up on the stat sheet besides plus/minus. Those thing have been down along with the goals and assists. Of course with Penner and Stoll out there puck possession was limited so one of his important traits of sweet passes was down too. So… a little of both (concussion lingering and linemates) was to blame.
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MindGeyser Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
@LA_1968, I disagree that it was the first sign. I’ve seen a few plays like that, but didn’t look as pretty because they went to no one in particular.
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DEH Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 6:22 pm
@LA_1968, no, it’s the first sign that he has linemates that can get to the right places at the right time.
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I’m thinking there is more to Rich’s article above? Rich, did it get cut off?
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Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
@KC23, I was wondering the same thing. Seemed like quite a build up for 1 small quote from Sutter.
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KC23 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
@Dominick, Yeah, seemed a bit weird. Maybe we need to put Rich on moderation for bashing Penner?
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M.T. Netter Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 8:11 pm
@KC23, Rich is probably still transcribing Sutter’s interview…not even SIRI can understand a mouth full of gravel/marbels
Penner is useless!!!
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Sebastian Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
@Alex, to quote one of the rules of the blog
“Posts that continually express the same singular opinion will be deleted.”
im guessing you dont like Penner…this is a post about Mike Richards.
[Reply]
408kingsfan Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
@Alex,
Can I just copy and paste your post on this blog everyday he is a King?
Thanks
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DesertKing Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:25 pm
@Alex,
No he’s not! He provides us with an endless supply of material for the media and this blog. Without Penner, the last year and a half of our live would have been completely devoid of the hope that someday, anyday, Dustin Penner would breakout and become the scoring machine he had shown in the past. No, Penner hasn’t been useless. He has been, in the most American of ways, the perfect replacement for Fro, for while Fro was an enigma wrapped in a concept, Penner was a waffle wrapped in a crepe. When we lose Penner, who will replace him and become the next Fro/Penner?
[Reply]
purple and gold Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:50 pm
@DesertKing, Assuming Nolan and King’s “youthful enthusiasm” wears off and the kings go back into a scoring slump. I would assume brown would be the next target for not being a good captain and rallying the troops. If the catch on fire the blog will go silent and no one will read rich’s posts anymore because they have nothing to complain about.
[Reply]
MindGeyser Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
@Alex, He’s not useless. Just not capable of what he was brought in for with this group (or possibly any at this point), and at his salary, he becomes an albatross keeping the team from making the improvements it otherwise could. Everyone would have a lot less to say if he were a $1.2 mill player rather than a $4.0 mil player.
[Reply]
M.T. Netter Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 8:14 pm
@MindGeyser, correction: every time Penner has a useless shift I see a)$4 million salary, b) a 1st round pick & 3) a prospect that have been swapped for something USEFUL.
I liked the Penner trade when it went down, but his heart just isn’t in it. No excuse for dogging it.
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Said it once will say it again. We dont need ex duck players. Penner u straight up are a waste of spot on this kings team. Never want u to put on a kings jersey again. No heart. Keep King and Nolan up here. Even if they go same stats as penner at least these kids show that they care and are playing with heart and fresh legs!
[Reply]
CheezyPoofs Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
@Kingsfan602, Sean O’Donnell says hi. I would take him back in a heartbeat, although we’ve got V2.0 with Mitchell.
this comment isn’t necessarily directed at you KF602, but…
I think everyone is being a little bit overly critical of the players and heaping waaaaaaaaaaay too much praise on these two kids too soon. I don’t want these kids to get jacked in the head because they aren’t scoring a goal per game, and have this “work ethic” go down the drain.
Yes the 2nd line had a great game against Dallas. Yes Richards was finally playing the way we want him to. And YES! I want to keep the kids up and sit 25 & 28 to see how this pans out, but its a little bit too soon to say that they’re the saviors for this team.
[Reply]
Kingsfan602 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
@CheezyPoofs, sean o’donnell was a king way before he was a duck if i am not wrong.
[Reply]
Craigy Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 8:47 pm
@Kingsfan602, Your not.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
@Kingsfan602, You know when the Britney Spears antics stopped being funny and started being disturbing? That’s sorta where we are with Penner. I’m profoundly disturbed by the situation. It’s remarkable what a young guy with talent and motivation can do in his role. Might have to wait twenty or thirty games to consider it a real change, though.
[Reply]
penner, martinez, and a third for?
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Mike Richards is such a special player.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 2:57 pm
@Subby, Mike Richards is one of the big pluses when seeing the King’s live because you can see all those little things the camera misses. He really is a marvel to watch play and that no look to Nolan was as sweet as it gets. Taking a close look at that play Richards shows instict to believe that King would somehow jar the puck lose with two Dallas players on him … and then a no look to Nolan … right on the tape … for the winning goal in cruch time? Thing of beauty. I laugh when I read takes from fans about Philly getting the better of the deal. No way. Good deal for both actually.
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Would be interesting to look at who his wingers were during that stretch at the beginning when he was on fire…anyone know?
Also, at first glance, his first run early in the season of 4 pts in 4 games…I believe 3 of them came on the PP. Would be interesting to see how many of his earlier points came on the PP vs. the recent trend of keeping him on the 2nd unit with Penner & Stoll.
That said, the last two games, I like the look with him at the point. (minus the one “oops” pass in front of Quick.
[Reply]
purple and gold Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:07 pm
@Mudfish4, iirc Gagne was up on the first so It was Brown or Williams, not sure who else off the top of my head, but pretty sure stoli was still centering at the beginning of the season.
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Niko Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
@Mudfish4,
Was it Penner – Richards – Williams
and Gagne – Kopitar – Brown?
[Reply]
bmova Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
@Niko, No, it was Gagner-Kopi-JW on the first line to start. The second line was supposed to Penner-Rick-DB, but when Penner got injured, Richardson and Parse both filled in on LW on that line.
[Reply]
DEH Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
@bmova, Parse-Richards-Brown showed some promise then Parse got injured.
Hey Rich/anyone who can help….for my son’s 6th birthday I picked up 4 very nice tix for the chicago game on the 25th. we only get to Staples once or twice a year and this seemed to be a perfect opportunity for us. for some unknown reason my kid claims to be a ‘hawks fan – i’m guessing its just to tweak his father, the way i did my old man with our favorite football teams, but don’t worry i’ll make him wear his king’s shirt that night. anyway, since we record ALL of the games i thought it would be very cool if we could get a stadium announcement, tv announcement or a quick shot of him on tv celebrating his birthday. bob and jim do this once in a while so i know it can be done, i just don’t know how to go about it. thanks in advance to anyone with a helpful suggestion.
[Reply]
Niko Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:35 pm
@red49er, I’ve wondered the same thing as well, hope someone helps you out! He would then be obligated to be a Kings fan for life
[Reply]
KingsGuy Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
@red49er, Has, I’ll be there too. It’s my bday as well. My wife put up a msg last year, but I have no clue on how she did it. Try calling the box office.
[Reply]
PARKING_053 Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
@KingsGuy, Two years ago for my April Fools boy, I got a Zamboni ride and a message on the board. Ride was $150 through the ROYAL EXPERIENCE, the message was $50 with proceeds going to the Kings care Foundation. I would assume prices would be similar. Good luck!
[Reply]
Jon Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
@red49er, Hit up Jay Flats on Twitter (@JAYFLATS). He might be able to point you in the right direction. Also, Jim Fox is on Twitter (@JimFox19). Start by sending these guys messages. If that fails, contact Kings PR. Numbers can be found on the website (http://kings.nhl.com/). Good luck with the conversion!
[Reply]
CheezyPoofs Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
@red49er, if you make a donation to Kings Care you can have your name on the jumotron. I did it for my wife’s bday a few years back.Cost $50 but she got a kick out of it and we got a tax write off.
[Reply]
RobSD Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
@red49er,
You can call Staples ahead of time and they will put his name on the jumbotron. I’m not sure about getting on the actual broadcast though.
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@spencerlakings Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 7:31 pm
@red49er, I would email the kings ice crew to see if they could pick him to be star of the night.
They chose my son as we were walking down the aisle. It’s awesome. He gets to stand on the blue line for the national anthem with the players and gets a high 5 from Kopi, etc
The kings ice crew are on twitter and fb
[Reply]
red49er Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 7:58 am
@red49er, all super suggestions and contacts. I’m gonna try my best.
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How many people want simmer and schenn back?
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Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
@Alan,
Not many if it meant not having Richards. Most know exactly what we have in Richards, and it’s not his fault he plays mostly defense against the other teams top offensive players. If you put Schenn, and Simmonds in the same situation, they wouldn’t have near the points Richards has.
If Richards was on Philly, his offense wouldn’t suffer the way it is here. He’s on pace to score 32 points. That’s his lowest total in a 5 year span, during what should be the beginning of his prime years.
There’s a reason that everyone on the teams numbers suck, and it isn’t because we have 25 guys who can’t score.
[Reply]
Alan Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
@Dominick, Than what is it because we suck at putting goals in the back of the net
[Reply]
DEH Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
@Dominick, no chemistry is the problem. This is the first time he’s had any chemistry with his wingers. Just look at the movement in the offensive zone when Nolan scored, that’s how a line is supposed to look on the boards, one guy on the boards and two to take deflections. Not to mention the crisscrosses in the zone by Richards and Nolan.
[Reply]
Sam Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
@Alan, Hopefully not many given that at Schenn’s best he’ll be Mike Richards.
[Reply]
Deke'r Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:43 pm
@Alan, …neggits…
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
@Alan,
How many people want their old girlfriends back after they badmouth you and hook up with someone else?
[Reply]
@spencerlakings Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
@Alan, Seriously. No matter how many goals simmer gets. He’s no Richards
[Reply]
King Cobra Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
@Alan, No Way!! Richards is the man…
[Reply]
Kingstane9 Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
@Alan, I for one would love that, but it is what it is. Never really like the trade, but can’t turn the clock back.
[Reply]
Ducks just made some room on their roster with a trade. Looks like the Ducks will be dealing a big name for multiple players. I’m betting Getzlof.
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Dilapidus Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
@KC23,
I’d take him in a heartbeat. He’s not great but he is clever, works very very hard and plays his role perfectly. Plus.. we wouldn’t have to see him score on us again unless he got an own goal.
[Reply]
Niko Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
@KC23,
I hate that joke, hope he goes to the EC
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:23 pm
@KC23,
McKenzie on NHL Live just said that Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry are off the table, but Selanne is leaving the door open. Go Capitals!!!
[Reply]
I think it’s a bit of both actually, I do think thru January MR did have some post concussion issues and playing on wing isn’t something he does well or is comfortable with, he rarely did it Philly, maybe for an odd shift but never for that lenght of games. Stoll and Penner just didn’t add anything to that line to ocmmpliment what he does naturally ,which is why Nolan and King and their fight, work, grit and hustle did, eesp in driving the net and keeping that stick down and ready to fire. Richards is fast has great ice vision and acts quicklyu on it, and was spoiled by having Gagne for 5 years in Philly, Gagne ‘got ‘ MR from the first time they skated, always knew wher to be and to be ready.
I’m not surprised that Sutter defended MR, he’s always understood the value of a player like that, and came close to drafting him, had MR slotted #2 behind Phanuef. He’s smart enough to see all the things MR does in a game that contribute .
Nolan and King are suited to MR’s hustle and plays and as long as they are witjh the Kings, the should stay there. IT’s pretty clear they all work well together. As long as one of the kids is in position by the crease and has that stick ready, MR will feed him.
[Reply]
On Carter:
Over the last three years with the Flyers, Carter scored 36g, 33g and 46g. For arguments sake, let’s say that with the Flyers he was a 35-40 goal scorer. That’s good, for anyone, on any team.
On the Blue Jackets this year (his famous “off year”), Carter has scored 12 goals in 35 games (I think he had shoulder trouble?) which would put him on pace to score 28 goals (in 82 games) for the extremely offensively challenged Jackets (Nash is on pace to score 32 goals). Thirty goals on the Blue Jackets is good, for anyone.
Carter is a proven goal scorer – no question about it.
Now there is a ton of talk about his contract – so let’s take a lot. Carter has a cap hit of 5.3m over the next 10 years. That’s 5.3m for a 30-40 goal scorer. Now there are a bunch of contracts we can think about when comparing those numbers, but I’ll leave that to you guys; suffice to say that it’s a pretty cheap contract considering the price of recent free agent signings. (both Richards and Carters contracts were widely praised in Philly when they were made, both of them being called “home town discount contracts”)
You might compare the contract to what Parise is projected to sign for next year (I think that’s around 7m?). The two have comparable stats, although you might argue Parise is a better all around hockey player. But still, what is more enticing – Carter at 5.3m for next 10 years, or Parise at 7.3m over the next 10 years?
I’m not saying that we should trade the farm to acquire him – but I certainly don’t see many negatives concerning his production or his contract. With the Jackets floundering this year, we may be able to acquire him at a significantly discounted price (considering his actual worth).
And honestly (the “party rumors” aside), reuniting Carter and Richards seems like an ideal situation.
[Reply]
outsider Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
@CabbagesAndKings, NO Carter please!!!
[Reply]
King Alex Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
@CabbagesAndKings, there you go making sense & posting facts. Some fans don’t really like sense & facts but I’m with you bro!
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:28 pm
@CabbagesAndKings,
I understand the Carter debate. I don’t agree with those who want him, but I wouldn’t fight it if it happened. That leaves me with a kinda “whatever” attitude. I do think that if we trade for him scoring isn’t going to improve, anymore than it improved when we signed Gagne, Richards, or Penner. The reason those trades didn’t workout scoring wise in my opinion is, because the Kings are not an offensive minded team. Until that changes, offense will suck no matter who you put into this line up.
[Reply]
vplaza Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:38 pm
@Dominick,
But the flip side of that is when you start thinking more offensively, then the defense goes down, allowing more goals. I think we already saw some of that with Sutter’s experiment of using non-traditional penalty killers to save his offensive players for later in the game.
And I thought Gagne and Richards were scoring…until the injuries. Penner, well, no need to rehash that one. He showed the promise of better scoring….until Kopi went down last year, after which, Penner disappeared off the radar.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:45 pm
@vplaza, Tell Philly, Boston, or a host of others who think offense, and yet have let in more goals than the Kings. Letting in goals doesn’t mean stop trying to score. Every team who scores lets in more than the Kings, but that doesn’t scare them from generating offens.
vplaza Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
@Dominick,
For every Philly and Boston and others who think offense, there are teams like Anaheim, Edmonton, etc., who also think offense, but then let in quite a ton more goals than the Kings. Obviously for those teams, letting in goals also didn’t stop them from trying to score (since they all have scored more goals than the Kings).
It’s one thing to “think” offensively, it’s another to think offensively with the proper amount of defense to have good goal differential.
My only point is that if and when the team starts playing with a more offensive mind, then the goals against will most likely climb, hopefully not at an alarming rate.
Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
@vplaza, That is why I say balance. If you think I’m condoning a total abandonment of defense then your not really reading my comments.
vplaza Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
@Dominick,
Dom, not sure why this is turning into an argument, but in the post that I was directly referring to, you said:
“The reason those trades didn’t workout scoring wise in my opinion is, because the Kings are not an offensive minded team. Until that changes, offense will suck no matter who you put into this line up.”
I may be missing something in there where the word “balance” was written. Now, you may have said you were looking for balance in other posts, but I wasn’t replying to those, nor have I read all of them.
My reply was to the post I quoted, FWIW.
Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
@vplaza, Fair enough. I am not asking for irresponsible offense and I listed no examples of any. My point was that their are plenty of offensive teams who score well, and yet, are extremely good defensively. Teams that are all defense don’t score, and according to most analysts out there, the Kings are about as defense only oriented a team as there is in the entire league.
Boston, and Philly I would not cvonsider offense only. Maybe Toronto. Teams that score the most also give up a lot of shots, but it doesn’t mean they suck defensively. They give up goals, but 1 goal against doesn’t crush their confidence like it does the Kings.
My point was the Kings need to be more agressive offensively if they want to score (just like all the other teams that score).
CabbagesAndKings Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
@Dominick, I think we’re in the same boat for once. I’m not that into acquiring Carter — I just haven’t been able to wrap my hat around all the negative stuff I’ve been seeing about him.
As far as the system being the cause for our offensive struggles — I half agree. I think a good offensive team needs two things: System and Talent. And although the Kings have some pretty good players, they are far outmatched Talentwise by some other teams.
We need to both, change our system to a more offensive minded game — and acquire a sufficient amount of talent to implement that system. One without the other just isn’t going to cut it, in my opinion.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
@CabbagesAndKings,
I 1/2 agree with you also. Like you, I do believe their has to be a balance between the 2, but this team is on track to be the worst scoring team in Kings history, and I don’t see it as the worste Kings line up I’ve ever seen, but one of the stronger line ups we’ve ever had.
I do think we need a few players, but think system plays the biggest roll of all in repairing this teams offensive woes, and that the current system is what has held these players back from reaching their potential.
CB14 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
@Dominick, Agreed.
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KC23 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
@CabbagesAndKings, If you think Carter would score 30 – 40 goals a year for 10 years for the Kings I got some Blue Jacket playoff tickets I can sell ya real cheap.
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CabbagesAndKings Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:41 pm
@KC23, I don’t really see much difference in being able to score 30goals on the Blue Jackets and being able to score 30 goals on the Kings. If anything, I think playing with a legit setup man (Richards/Kopitar) would up that goal total.
Carter is 27 years old — I don’t see any drop off in his production (due to age) for 6 or 7 years. But even at age 35, it seems likely that he’d still be putting up 20 goals without to much trouble. At which time, 5m cap hit for a 20goal scorer will still be cheap.
It’s a bargain now — and it will be a bargain then.
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KC23 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 10:45 pm
@CabbagesAndKings, Hey, that’s cool. We’ll just agree to disagree. Now about those tickets.
Jimmyo777 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:18 pm
@CabbagesAndKings, Right on… LA should definitely go after Carter as he is a really nice guy as well (I know him personnally) If I were the Kings, after signing Quick to a long-term contract which they could do soon, offer the CBJ Bernier & Penner and maybe a draft for Carter.Be a good trade for both sides..
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Stuart Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 9:17 am
@Jimmyo777, I’d say shop JB and DP, but throw in DB and ask for Nash. CBJ get the goalie, a proven *cough* leader who plays with heart every night and will score goals for you. DP’s contract comes off the books next year, and you start your rebuild…
For us: the letters get moved around (not insisting MR becomes a “C” but at least an “A”), we get a helluva crafty offensive player with super range and crazy shot/chances creativity, we ditch DP and his contract, we bring up Zatkoff to be full-time backup next year…and yeah, that’s my wish.
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Check out this article on Penner from 2008. Sound familiar?
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=256277
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Lake Forest Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
@DBking, I wish i could find my post from when penner came over. I told EVERYONE that a woman I worked with, who is a ducks fan laughed at me when we picked him up. Everyone bashed me “well how do you explain he had this many goals?”
He was on a good line, that simple.
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number 6 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
@DBking,
It’s a fine job of doing one’s research and vetting by Dean Lombardi and crew.
No excuses for that. I’ve played hockey, but not in some time. All I did was watch some youtube clips and thought, what are they doing? You could see just from a few brief clips that a team that had at least three really rather lumbering players (Smyth… people used to joke on this blog about him last half of the season – Zus – and Greene) were going to bring in another lumbering player.
A team that everyone knew lacked speed, and they give up Two firsts and a third. Merry Christmas Steve T. Perhaps next Christmas it’ll be a tie (as in….. neck tie).
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Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
@number 6, Exactly who else was available at the time that was a better option then Penner? There wasn’t anybody. Also if you look at Penner’s career there was no reason to believe he would be this bad, even with the problems he has had in the past. He has averaged 20+ goals a season, including a couple of years of getting 30. There was no reason to not think he should of scored that here. Being a contract year, the fact that he is under 30, coming home to where he had the most success. It was a very good trade that just did not work out.
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Deke'r Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
@Jeff_R, ….as Foxy would say….somatimesa youa wina….someatimesa youa loosa…..
RobSD Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
@DBking,
You could just change the date on that article to today and change Oilers to Kings. Best part of that article…
“”What we’ve seen is inconsistency, we need him to be a better player,” MacTavish told the Sun. “You can’t just continue to throw gratuitous ice time at a guy that is that inconsistent. Something’s got to change.”
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I still would like to get a Richard’s jersey. Slump or not he is an extremely good player and unfortunately for him, he isn’t placed with the correct wingers.
It’s been only 2 games, so I am not going to say trade or release anyone just yet. These next two weeks should give us a realistic idea of these 2 guys playing on the 2nd line.
I thought they gelled well. They have DP’s size, just a better work ethic in my opinion. And for a long time I have said I don’t think we need an overhaulin done, just minor tweeks.
If King/Nolan continue to play as well as they have during their 2 games, I don’t see a reason why NOT to let penner goal. I tried as much as possible to back this guy and believe in him and I just cannot do it anymore. As I love fishing, this was/should have been an accidental catch and release situation.
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408kingsfan Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
@Lake Forest,
Yeah Richards is awesome and awesome players need line mates that are willing to improve.
And
If Penner is resigned as a King I will not attend a single Kings game for the rest of my life. But that’s not gonna happen so no worries.
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Penner needs to exit left stage right.
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For all those who think we will be fine without Stoll….you have a short memory.
Stoll is a C3 that played C2 last season and scored 20 goals. He’s played most of this season between Richardson and Lewis, not exactly the one two scoring punch that a center would hope to play with. Both guys couldn’t hit the ocean with a beach ball…and I’m being generous!
Come playoffs you will want a Stoll in your lineup just to take face offs. One face off loss late in a game can cost you a series…the guy is in the top 10 in face offs…trust me, we need him! Lokti looks like he is getting more comfortable and has some nice skills, but he is barely ready for prime time. I’m not so sure he can survive the playoffs with the tight checking and pounding you take in the corners.
Assuming we make the playoffs, you can only put so many rookies on the ice. Imagine meeting St. Louis or Vancouver in the first round. Come playoffs… teams are always looking for veterans. If you only want to go one round, put Lokti in. If the goal is to go deep, you will only get there with Veterans down the middle and we have 3 pretty good ones.
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Deadendcruiser Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
@Barry’s Mullet, I have always loved Stoll since he got here. His production is very disappointing but he has heart and never takes a shift off…..people shouldnt exile him because he’s not scoring on a regular basis. Come playoff time he will be a valuable asset. Glad I’m not the only one who sees that!
GKG GKG GKG!!!
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Osaka Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:06 pm
@Barry’s Mullet, I’ve posted this a couple of times, Stoll is the type of player teams add at the deadline if they plan on making a run at the cup. Just his face-offs alone would make him a valuable commodity, but he is an excellent veteran defensive center. The guy can play in any situation and play a lot of tough minuets. They guy is fourth on the team in hits with 119 trailing only Brown, Greene, and Clifford.
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408kingsfan Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
@Barry’s Mullet,
I would not off Stoll at the deadline for the reasons you mentioned, however I would find it difficult to resign him even at a dicount.
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Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
@Barry’s Mullet, This is why I think they should keep Stoll for the playoffs. Stick him back to 3rd line center and let Lokti go to Manchester and be their leader in there playoff run. I would rather have a veteran like Stoll for the playoffs then basically a rookie in Lokti. Lokti can then start next season as our 3rd line center.
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I’m glad that Richards seems to be getting back to normal. My main concern was that the concussion was more serious than originally thought, but it seems to me now that his linemates may have contributed to his “below MR standards” play.
I’ve said it in other posts. I was extremely critical of Penner last year when he literally disappeared after Kopi went down, providing absolutely nothing to the team. I was cautiously optimistic that he could prove us wrong this year, but he’s only had a few strings of games where he seemed to play the way we felt he could play. But his entire body of work this year has been disappointing at best, disgusting at worst.
Two games for the rookies isn’t enough to say that they’ve saved the season, but at the very least, they appear to have given Richards the linemates that he needed to get his game going again.
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number 6 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
@vplaza,
‘But his entire body of work this year has been disappointing at best, disgusting at worst.’
Perhaps it would have been even worse if it wasn’t a contract year? I’d like to think not, but who really knows. It’s a conundrum. And in his defense, he hasn’t exactly been used on a consistent basis in a position to succeed (i.e. often skating on a third line…… goal scorers don’t generally skate on the third line).
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vplaza Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
@number 6,
Perhaps he needed more time with Kopi on the first line to really see how that would go, but IMHO, he did not take advantage of the chances that he was given.
And if he was placed on the 2nd or 3rd lines, he needed to take the initiative to show that he deserved to be on the top scoring line, not play half heartedly when on the ice.
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CB14 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:11 pm
@number 6, Regarding your last line, we can blame TM for that. For some reason he liked to take 20 goal scoring left wingers and put them on the 3rd line. Frolov, Poni, and Penner. Then he wondered why those guys weren’t scoring as much as they previously had. This is not an excuse for Penner’s poor play, but it certainly didn’t help.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
@CB14,
For the record, Frolov scored 32 and 19 goals as “3rd” line LW. 51 goals in two season as a 3rd liner (numbers the current 1st liners would kill for right now), yet he got snubbed. Beyond comprehension…
Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:44 pm
@CB14, Maybe that is where Poni, Frolov and Penner belong. It isn’t like they are scoring much since they left (Poni and Frolov.) Fro isn’t even in the NHL anymore. As for Frolov I thought he did well on the 3rd line playing with Zeus.
CB14 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
@FKA PakiFro, And Frolov got benched multiple times too. I don’t understand it either.
@Jeff_R, Well Poni is on pace to more than double his goal total from last year from 5 to 13. Not a huge total, but still a heck of a lot better than he did here.
vicarious Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 7:23 pm
@CB14, I still think letting Frolov walk for nothing was one of DL’s big mistakes. He produced points while he was here and before Kopitar emerged was the King’s best forward. DL was busy trying to sign Kovalchuck. Going to New York, Fro didn’t produce there and then was badly injured. So he went to Russia on a 3 year deal.
A reason I hate the late season rentals: seems to me all too often players go to a new team with different systems, different timing, different players and they struggle as all their timing is off–especially since the game speed seems to pick up as the NHL season progresses. An AHL kid coming from the minors where the team plays the same systems seems to usually do better than a vet whose instincts are wrong in a game where things happen very fast.
Why does everyone think the Kings need Stoll come playoff time? Did everyone forget about last years playoffs? Stoll absolutely stunk in last years playoffs. When the Kings needed him the most once Kopi went down, Stoll regressed BADLY. He was our 2nd line center all year yet in the last 2 games of the year he had been demoted down to the 4th line with Penner and Westy. Here’s proof of that in case you forgot: http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/04/25/scouting-the-sharks-12/ http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/04/23/scouting-the-sharks-11/
Also lets not forget that the Kings best playoff game was a 4-0 win in Game 2. Can you guess who didn’t play in Game 2? That’s right, Jarret Stoll.
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MindGeyser Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
@CB14, Because they’re a well below average faceoff team, and a middling puck posession team. Sometimes the only way the Kings got out of the D zone against SJ was to send Stoll in to win a faceoff.
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Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
@CB14, You rather have Lokti, basically a rookie, instead of a veteran like Stoll who played in the Stanley Cup Finals before? Stoll did a good job in the playoffs last season, except for the suspension. You really think DL is going to rely on Lokti, King, Nolan or any other rookie in the playoffs, knowing that his job could be on the line? King and Nolan are doing well in their first 2 games but I sincerely doubt they will be on the playoff roster this year.
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CB14 Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
@Jeff_R, Yes, I would rather have Lokti than Stoll as the 3rd line center. He’s held his own this year, and even Sutter commented about how he’s very responsible devensively.
If Stoll did such a good job in the playoffs last season why was he demoted to the 4th line for the last 2 games? And that was without Kopi in the line-up. At the time the Kings needed him the most, Stoll regressed. That’s not good.
Nolan, King, and Lokti should be in the line-up if they deserve it. Age and experience shouldn’t matter. Who was the Kings best line in the playoffs last year? Not a veteran line with guys like Penner, Stoll, Brown, Smyth, or Zues, but rather a line of Richardson, Clifford, and Simmonds. Age don’t matter.
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Lets trade for Teemu Selanne.
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Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:50 pm
@Subby, This could be a good idea. Not sure the Ducks would do it though, unless they are completely out of it come Feb 27th.
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Btw, Sharks PP amazing right now….
Guess who they stick in front of the net?
Zueeezzz, we underestimated his presence in LA.
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Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
@Subby, Yet they are having troubles scoring for the most part as well. With all the Kings troubles, the Sharks haven’t taken advantage of it. Could be there downfall, especially if the Kings start scoring consistently.
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Deke'r Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 6:02 pm
@Subby, ….no you underestimated his presence….
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Subby Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 7:17 pm
@Deke’r, I knew he was valuable and I didn’t want him to go but I didn’t think he’d leave this big of a hole.
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billanthony Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
@Subby, Maybe we should have signed Zeus and traded Stoll for a pick. Kopitar-Richards-Zeus-Fraser looks pretty solid. Stoll is the faster skater but Zeus seems to compliment his teammates better.
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My favorite type of post is the type where someone has the fantasy that the Kings can trade all their crappiest players for someone’s best players. What’s up with that? Nobody’s gonna want the Kings’ crappy players–not for a bag of pucks. Maybe for their worst problems.
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DesertKing Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
If that crappy player is a UFA at the end of the season, and the other team is looking to drop salary for one or more reasons, then yes, another team may want Penner, er, uh, I mean our crappiest player.
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Stuart Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 9:20 am
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, what say you about my proposed JB, DB, and DP for Nash? not just crappy players involved… you gotta bet an elephant to win an elephant is what I was always told.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
@Stuart, Got no problem with value-for-value, but I don’t normally speculate about trades. I was responding to the recent rash of speculation that we could unload our junk for their gold.
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Stuart Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, ok, I can respect that…
Chicago is desperate for goalie talent. Washington is a mess with all of their injuries. NJ has no money. Something could happen. Does Montreal have anything we want?
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Jeff_R Reply:
February 13th, 2012 at 4:55 pm
@DesertKing, Kostitsyn is probably the only one that could help us, although maybe Moen too. Otherwise not much else in terms of Montreal. There is a lot of talk (fans and blogospehere) about Chicago possibly trading Kane. With there troubles on defense and goaltending, they just might do that. We could help them. Nobody really on Washington we want except maybe Knuble, which I would trade Penner for.
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Richards had poor shot differential all year no matter what wingers he has had. But why two coaches kept putting Penner on the shutdown line I have no idea!
Kings just seem to throw players wherever. Then act confused later.
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I’m amazed………this time last year I felt I was the only one saying, “no” to the Penner trade and continued to tell everyone he wasn’t the savour nor could he help the kings. I used words like lazy, no effort, can’t score and definitely won’t help the team.
Now I sit back and go either no one watched Edmonton Oiler games and or again a quick decision is not always the right one.
Finally there is an old saying, “don’t wish for things you don’t want as there is a good chance it will come true”, try to live by that as it will happen some day to all.
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Lots of complaints about Stoll and Penner. No doubts about underpeforming. But scoring is contagious, as is not scoring. Lets hope the sparks from Manchester light a fire on our team that spreads and puts us in a top 5 position.
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I dont think Richards ever left, he is just re-adjusting and getting back into it, an injury and an off season with a trade, moving etc, man this guy has had a rough year, I would be down too.
I hope he sees more great opportunities and finds his sweet spot. I think he is getting there now.
Keep up the great work MR!
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Forum Gold Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 10:13 am
@Mars, +1. GO KINGS GO!!!
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Honestly, I’m glad Sutter said something to this degree. Mike Richards has been vehemently criticized by pretty everyone everywhere he has played. Some he deserves (all players deserve criticism at one point) but most he does not. One of the biggest reasons our team goals against has gotten better this season has been because of Richards. He never takes nights off and a lot of what he does won’t show up on the scoreboard.
With that said, there is no amount of criticism that shouldn’t be aimed at Penner. Penner has turned into somewhat of a subcultural fan base meme due to the ridiculousness of the pancake incident and because he has been so bad as a King it’s laughable. But all sardonic joking aside, this guy has been a complete an absolute bust and it’s sickening. He has yet to portray even an ounce of heart or drive to be the best player he can be. The fact that two rookie wingers (of similar builds to Penner, mind you) can come in and create more scoring chances in two games than Penner has all season is a total joke. King and Nolan don’t have even a comparable degree of natural talent as Penner yet they have produced and helped the team off of sheer adrenaline and work ethic. That is DISGUSTING to me. Penner does not deserve to play another game for this team, and I’m glad Sutter has benched him in favor of two rookies that are actually willing to fight for their right to play hockey for this club.
Stoll has been equally as abysmal, but I’m willing to cut him a little slack. It is not Stoll’s fault he has been forced to play wing and has the hockey IQ of a pee wee. But Stoll rarely takes shifts off and it is clear he cares about the team and about winning, no matter how many jaw droopingly bad plays he makes.
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AHH! that photo is amazing!
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not sure if anyone else agrees with this but at this very moment we’ve lost the Mike richards trade, Schenn has 8 goals and is creeping up on Richards. And Simmonds has 18 goals and more pts than Richards this was not how this trade was supposed to go down its terrible.
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NOT IMPRESSED Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 9:22 am
@tdot king, I think it will go down as one of Lombardi’s worst trades ever as Kings GM. It seems that every player the Kings trade away becomes a better player and ever player the Kings get becomes a worse player.
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Michael_DD8 Reply:
February 14th, 2012 at 11:49 am
@NOT IMPRESSED,
How is it a bad trade? Simmonds is just getting FIRST line powerplay time with a team that has all of the offensive skill in the world. If you look at half of Simmonds goal, it has nothing to do with his personal skill set. Its more oppurtunity. The sad thing, besides Quick, without Richards, we would also be looking out from the playoff spots.
Mike Richards is a complete stud, and if this team ever comes to form, he will shine as well. Let alone, playoffs.
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For my Birthday I want Richards made captain and I want a trade for Rick Nash.
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Penner’s lack of production speaks volumes about Kings’ management. On any other team, Penner would have 20 goals by now.
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