A day after analyzing Anze Kopitar’s game, Darryl Sutter shared his thoughts on Drew Doughty’s performance during a stretch in which the Kings defenseman has risen from a minus-10 rating to a minus-one in under a month’s time.
On whether he’s been happy with Drew Doughty’s play:
“Drew’s been awesome. I can pick three or four mistakes out all year. Literally. The only thing I try and do is keep pressure off him because he hasn’t scored. There are times during games where he forces it where he doesn’t have to. It’s like I tell him, ‘Just beat one. You don’t have to beat five.’ Because if you beat one, there’s a good chance you’re making a good enough play that somebody else is going to be open. It’s hard for a young guy to do it still. It’s still a struggle out there…Are we happy with him? Of course we’re happy with him. [He’s] a guy that plays 26 minutes on a team that’s six games over .500 at his age.”
On Doughty shooting the puck frequently:
“He misses the net a lot and he gets shots blocked a lot, but I can’t help him with that and neither can you.”
On whether Doughty should pick his spots on when attempting to use the impressive “one-man breakout” he used in the first period against Phoenix last night:
“Well, if you do that all the time, you’re not a very good player. You’re Brian Campbell in Florida. You’ll be minus-20 and we’ll see you on the highlights. But you’re on a bad team, and you’re a high-minus player. So this is not a movie about a star, right? He’s a good first-pass guy, and if he’s good in his own zone – hey, it tells you where he is now from the start of the year. At the start of the year, he was a minus-10. So in the last three weeks, he’s a plus-eight. So where does that start? It starts in your own zone. Good first pass. Don’t have to beat five guys. Make a good first pass. Not many guys are capable of doing it at high speed, under pressure, and knowing full well that the other team is coming after [you]. Not many players can do that.”
On Doughty being stuck at zero goals:
“Who cares? Maybe he’ll score three tonight. A defenseman’s always one game away from being at his career average.”
On whether being stuck at zero goals weighs on Doughty:
“I don’t think it [does], but I don’t lay him down on the table and ask him that. It’s about winning. It’s one thing you take from winning a championship – when you talk to the players, they just want to win. It’s not about goals and assists. It’s about winning, and you try and just keep everybody in line.”
On whether teams’ performances have a tendency to rise and fall during extended homestands:
“Well, I suppose it [does], but you try and find different ways of motivating…even though we’re creatures of habit, you still try and find ways to break it during that time. Different ways of preparing them, different ways of showing things, just try and find different ways of doing it. It might be somebody else saying it. Try and get more out of four or five players. Expect more out of your leadership group. Challenge different groups of guys different days. Make sure some guys feel pressure to be better. Make sure some guys are comfortable. Probably one example is putting Toffoli in. We didn’t bring him here…not to play him, but I just felt, ‘you know what? Richards and Carter both have been struggling. Let’s take a look at Toffoli. Jordy needs a kick in the ass.’ Just things like that. Anything that can just keep it a little off helps.”
On whether Doughty should pick his spots on when attempting to use the impressive “one-man breakout” he used in the first period against Phoenix last night:
“Well, if you do that all the time, you’re not a very good player. You’re Brian Campbell in Florida.”
LOL!
Brian, pour cool water all over yourself, cuz you just got BURNED. Oh my.
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
@puddle, speaking of burns, Helene Elliot (LAT) tweeted last night that Smith was getting burned from the red light flashing so much so he was replaced.
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Mars Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
@shiny, HAHAHA That is awesome.
No wonder he is not starting tonight.
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Neil Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
@shiny, Stu Nahan use to say that his neck was getting sunburned. (Nahan use to play goalie and was a sportscaster…also was in “Fast Times”….
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Neil Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
@Neil, FYI..Nahan played goalie when they didnt wear masks !!! Hard to believe but there was a time goalies didnt wear masks!!!
KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
@Neil, Nahan. The one TV LA media sports guy that actually really knew his hockey. He was a lone becon in the LA sea of sports media reporters. Unfortunately, not much has changed except that Nahn is no longer with us.
Go Brad Dotty!
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:01 pm
@Neil, Dude! Where’d you get the cool jacket?
Hutch Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
@puddle, Campbell is killing my fantasy hockey +/- right now. Sutter is very clear and unapologetic, I love it!
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Larry Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:27 pm
@puddle, I love how Sutter isn’t worried about Dewey scoring goals. I guess us fans should take that lead. I’m so glad that Sutter is our coach because he’s at the right time and in the right place for this team. And yeah Campbell definitely got severely burned!! WOW!!!
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KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
@Larry, The only thing that concerned me was Doughty’s plus/minus, but Muzzin has helped taken care of that issue in a big way.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
@Larry, Sutter looks at the scoreboard lately and says he doesn’t need Dewey to score goals–he needs him to keep playing defense. I’m seeing the logic.
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linny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, not to mention that he should b credited for a goal (figuratively speaking) when he cleared the puck out of the crease about 6 inches? from the goal line when quick had made a save n was unable to get back. We need somebody to do what Willie was doing n if Doughty’s doing that I don’t care if he gets a goal all year.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 6:27 pm
Indeed.
I love Sutter. He’s like, I’m their coach, not their therapist. If he sees something out of line, he’ll address it. Otherwise, he’s relying on his players to be adults and pros
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MK Ultra Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
@shiny, “I play my best hockey when _____”
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NOW IMPRESSED Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
@MK Ultra, Wasn’t that from Andy Murray?
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:04 pm
@NOW IMPRESSED, Sounds like one of those irritating questionnaires you get when you apply for a job.
Defence an are one game away from their career average. So true. Would love to sit down for supper with DS. He would probably insult me all night though.
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
@Ryanoliver, only if you ask stupid questions
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SD Hockey Mom Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
@Ryanoliver, That was my favorite line today; “one game away from being at his career average”… I literally laughed out loud.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:04 pm
@Ryanoliver, If your name is Scuds or Greener, it’s true, anyway.
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Hey Jon, You have been doing an awesome job on the blog! Much appreciated. I realize the blog must be a lot of work to begin with, but wanted to request an addition. Rich Hammond did it once in awhile, but it would be awesome to have a monthly (or weekly, or daily or hourly) update on Manchester Monarchs. Do you have plans to add such a feature to the blog? It would be awesome to follow the Manchester guys internally through you rather than searching by oneself. Anyway, please keep up the good work!!!! Mike
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jet Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
@Mike in Oregon, quick update — there are no players left.
DL needs to get some of the college guys signed this summer. We have to get the team back to the playoffs.
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“The View from Phoenix” can be boiled down to three words: “Boo hoo hoo”
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Neil Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
@OCKingGirl, we dont get the “view from” anymore..do we???
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OCKingGirl Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:57 pm
@Neil, I guess not. Haven’t seen it in awhile. Thought I would summarize.
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Mars Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
@Neil, I could take it or leave it.
If Jon is going to give us more Kings insight and such, I think its for the better.
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Wouldn’t trade Doughty for anyone. Franchise defenseman.
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Shotongoal Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
@Kopi Bryant, yep
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Mars Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
@Kopi Bryant, I “Bet” we could get Pete Rose for him.
Oh wait this isnt baseball.
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And, looking back over Dean Lombardi’s Champion building moves in the last two years, Sutter may be the best of all! He is amazing.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:06 pm
@Mike in Oregon, Remember how we all thought he was insane?
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“I don’t think it [does], but I don’t lay him down on the table and ask him that.”
Might be the funnies quote of Sutter I’ve read
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puddle Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
@LB, Dude is a hilarious quote machine. Hard to pick the funniest!
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What does this coach know??? doesnt he read this blog on how overpaid DD is,,and how DD isnt that good….
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:41 pm
@Neil, yeah, I know, right?! I mean forget the fact that he’s been stellar in his own zone, averages 26 minutes of ice time and only looks STRONGER for it and has stepped up in a huge way in a new leadership role, but I mean his offensive play is really bad this season so that automatically makes him way overpaid and not worth it.
Trade him immediately along with Penner (who’s been working his butt off to stay in the lineup) and Stoll and Quick! Gosh, why doesn’t Sutter listen to the know-it-alls on this blog?!
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LB Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
@shiny, The same know-it-alls who for the most part disapproved of Sutter’s hiring in the first place… “too old for the current NHL”
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Neil Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
@LB, seems like he has mellowed with age(if reports are correct) as a player I would want to do well for him…
Whoah, Nolan just called out…again.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
@vplaza,
“got called out”
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dmoney Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
@vplaza, I get the impression that none of these guys are hearing anything in the media that they haven’t heard directly from Sutter himself. I love this guy. Everything he says is hysterical. Plus, great coach.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
@dmoney,
Yes, I would think that they hear all of this and more during practice and during the games.
shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
@vplaza, I don’t think it was an “again” per se, but it’s more like in regards that led to decision to wake the team up.
Seriously what is it about LW that’s got guys playing so much better than when they were in a different position? LW has some kind of magic to it…
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
@shiny,
Maybe. It does seem like DS is making a point to mention Nolan’s name when it relates to Toffoli being up here. I hope Nolan takes it constructively and plays well when he gets back in the lineup.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:09 pm
@vplaza, Well, you’ve got to go with the hot guy in that spot, right? I mean, it’s a 3-2 league, and you’ve got to be the one to get to three first. That’s the guy I want. If I wanted a hot dog, I would have sent one of you guys out to get one.
goldielocks Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
@vplaza,
That’s the deference between proven player and not yet proven player. Defensively, Mike Richards has the worse nomber(as +/- stat suggests) than Nolan. But You can’t really call out Richards because he brings more to the table and DS knows what he is capable of. I don’t think DS has high hope for Nolan’s offensive production but defensively more resposible play as a 4th liner. He’s failed to execute that task recently.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
@goldielocks,
I know I don’t see everything that the coaches see, but it really didn’t seem to me that Nolan was playing that badly. But that’s from watching the game through the TV.
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KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
@vplaza, I think you are 100% correct. Nolan was fine, but he is just not better than Toffoli or Penner.
PRMan Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
@goldielocks, Richards is playing shutdown minutes against the toughest competition. Nolan is playing easy 4th-line minutes. He should have a WAY better number.
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On Doughty shooting the puck frequently:
“He misses the net a lot and he gets shots blocked a lot, but I can’t help him with that and neither can you.”
WHAT?
No way! We can. That is precicely why the blog is here. You just need to make him read.
Computer Coaching 101 now in session
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
@Mars, I’m ready for my first lesson, coach!
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Mars Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
@shiny, Not just me, its a collaberation, a collective coaching agreement, I think it was in the New CBA*.
*Citation needed.
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Kman Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
@Mars,
+1
KingsFanFTW Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
@Mars, lol
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Do you think there is any chance we could get Sutter to run for President? I know he’s Canadian, but I’m just sayin …
“Darryl, how are you going to win this election?”
Try not to lose.
“What do you think about North Korea?”
As President, you can fix a lot of things, right? You can fix gas prices or the economy. You can’t fix crazy.
He’d get my vote.
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If perry getlaugh are worth 8.5 million then how much is kopi worth? 100? So much for the new cba lowering salaries
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Neil Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
@Ashykon, The stars will get there…its how the rest of the team gets paid will decide how good of team the Ducks will be. Thats why its important to have players such as Lewis,Stoll,Muzzin,TT etc not bursting the bank yet…
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Ashykon Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
@Neil, I just hope kopi isn’t gonna ask for that much money, I think he’s worth that money but where would that money come from?
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
@Ashykon,
Fortunately, the Kings don’t have to worry about that until 2015-2016. A lot can happen between now and then. And if helps the Kings win a few more Cups before then, great!
The more pressing question is what do you do with Voynov after this year? And what do you do with DB next year? And finally, what do you do with Bernier after this year?
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
@Ashykon,
Someone will figure out a way to get around the spirit of the CBA. Almost guaranteed. It’s in their nature to try and beat the system somehow.
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
@Ashykon, Getzlaf and Perry’s cap hits combined is $16.875 mil. Kopi, Richards and Carter’s combined cap hit is $17.832 mil. If the Ducks wanna overpay for talent on their roster, let the. It seems like our GM gave Kopi a very fair contract that will leave some flexibility in cap space. I don’t know the specs on Carter’s or Richie’s contracts as they were both acquired through trade
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jet Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
@shiny, the ducks are in beg trouble this summer. they are putting everything into the playoffs this year.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
@shiny,
An even more telling comparison is the Quacks’ first line has a combined cap hit of $21.6M next year, or 33.6% of their salary cap.
The Kings? The first two lines’ combined cap hit is $25.5M (great having an EL contract on that second line), or 39.7% of their salary cap.
I like our position a little better for a number of years to come.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
@shiny,
On another note, am I reading it wrong or do the Kings NOT have any players under contract with No Trade/Movement clauses? Because the Quacks have no fewer than six players with No Trade/Movement clauses. Talk about hampering your ability further.
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KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:41 pm
@vplaza, Carter and Richards both have no trade clauses I believe.
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
@KC23,
Really? How’d they get traded to the Kings if they were in their contracts? I know it may not be perfect, but CapGeek doesn’t show any Kings with NTC/NMC. Weird.
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
@KC23,
Hmmm, maybe those kick in after a certain number of years for their contracts?
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
@KC23,
And the answer is yes, they did have NTCs in their contracts with Philly, but they weren’t going to kick in until after the next summer after they signed, which meant Philly was able to trade them. And even more interesting:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/introducing-jeff-carter-clause-prevents-extended-players-being-213643054–nhl.html
Now, that can’t happen again.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
@KC23, Didn’t I also read something about how if you agree to a trade, you’ve permanently voided your no trade clause? Seems to me someone went into arbitration and lost over that or something.
ever notice that Sutters comments in the morning are longer then after a game??? Coffee is a wonderful thing !!!
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Jon must be at lunch, started off @ 9am with his 1st article, then 10:38, then 11 and 12.
Come to think of it, maybe he needs a pre-game nap too.
Jon, whats your day like doing all of this?
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Doughty is playing great for a 3 million dollar guy. Or maybe Lombardi thought hey, I want to pay 7 million, I want to pay more than what I pay for Kopitar, for a guy that will be able to recover from having a minus 12 only 15 games in, and if he also doesn’t score a single goal that’s okay, too.
Sutter is happy with him, I get that, but he is the same guy that just gave Voynov more time overall last game, more time on the PK, and more time on the Power Play than Doughty.
Doughty was signed and paid to be more than a stay-at-home guy while two guys making a total of less than 1.4 million carry this team in goals by defensemen.
I want Sutter to be more than just happy with Doughty, I want Sutter to laugh at the question and say he is ecstatic with Doughty.
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Lake Forest Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, you will never get that type of answer from a guy like Sutter and we all know that. Sutter will never say he is estatic about anyone. He will always say he’s got work to do.
And you kind of glancing over the fact that DD had a good few years where is offensive minded plays were better than what we have seen today. He’s had a slow 25 games. Remember there is no Mitchell and Greene so you have to factor in THAT. We need him to be more stay at home. Until we get either of those guys back he will be more defensive defensement then an offensive one.
Trust me, if DD was out our offense would suffer more than you think.
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PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:02 pm
@Lake Forest, Hi man, good to chat.
Look, I am not dismissing Doughty and his defensive work, and his ability to adjust to a new role, but his salary demand was based on having defensive ability as well as the scoring touch you think I am glancing over. I am not only not glancing over it, I am focusing directly on it, as the basis for my disappointment.
I don’t mean to sound too harsh, either, I hear you about how he plays a role by backing up Muzzin, letting Muzzin romp while he “stays back” but seriously, zero goals is not a slow 25 games, it’s a zero half a season. His assists are up there, his career points/per/game is up there, but just speaking in terms of salary compared to results, can you really say he is outperforming Kopitar this year? Does Doughty mean more to this team than Kopi? He’s getting paid like he is.
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jess Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:11 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
Trust me when I tell you that you’re preaching to the choir regarding DD’s payscale. But comparing Kopi to Doughty? They both have different roles. That’s like comparing the police to the fire department. Answer: You need them both. DD has assumed a very important role now, although he’s still young, he’s one of our vet D guys who’s job is to show our new younger guys how our system is played. He’s also doing some heavy lifting without WM and MG. His role has dramatically changed, and with our decent position in the WC right now, it appears to be worth every penny.
PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:27 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, Hi jess.
Interesting point you make, well put with police and fire depts… What I mean is that Kopi is doing everything a forward can do; he does the top 6 role and the bottom 6 role, and his game is universally effective across defensive and offensive responsibilities. That’s what I expect from Doughty.
Doughty is the 4th highest cap hit;
Doughty is either 151st in goals, or tied for last, depending how you look at it.
Doughty is 136th in plus/minus.
Doughty is 28th in assists by defensemen, and that’s his best stat.
Doughty is 216th in penalty minutes, meaning there are 215 guys with fewer penalty minutes and only 67 with more.
If those numbers were what he walked in with, no matter what his role was on what team, he is not walking out of that room with a 7 million dollar contract.
Lake Forest Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:35 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, “If those numbers were what he walked in with, no matter what his role was on what team, he is not walking out of that room with a 7 million dollar contract.”
but those AREN’T the numbers he walked in with. When healthy he has proven to be our best defensive player. Take in his age and he will grow into a better defensemen. Put our two veteran stay at home guys and he spends a lot more time making the offensive plays. he doesnt spend as much time on the ice. His intangibles you need to take into affect. leadership, going through and winning the SC. He’s playing 30 minutes again, what is that ranked? I dont see it up there?
Go see who the lower paid defensemen are in the league and let me know who you choose over DD.
jess Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:35 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
Very good points regarding the numbers. They’re hard to ignore.. Except, I can guarentee you this, if DD (hypothetically) became available for a trade, I seriously doubt other GM’s in the league would so much as bat an eye regarding his salary to get him on board with their club.
One more thing. Come playoff time, DD will shapeshift into an entirely different animal which will be the opposing team’s nightmare. That of course, is my opinion- (!)
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
The answer to your question about DD being more important to this team than Kopi should be answered by how would the team be doing without DD and then without Kopi? Think about it.
Either way, the team would not be in the position they are in today. If you lose DD’s ability to play tons of minutes against the other team’s top lines, who steps in? If you lose Kopi’s point-a-game performance, who steps in? Etc., etc.
To me, the question is meaningless because it’s obvious that they are both important to this team.
PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
@LakeForest
Chara, Keith, Seabrook, Karlsson, Bieksa, maybe Letang, maybe Kronwall, for this one season. For lifetime, Karlsson, Seabrook and Bieksa and maybe Letang because they all shoot from the right side.
Doughty is healthy this year, not sure why you mention health.
In ice time, he is ranked 6th, but that number is dropping over the last 12 games, to 25 per game. Voynov gets more time on PP and PK now and has for the last dozen games, dramatically so, based on results of both offensive and DEFENSIVE success.
@vplaza-you are being unfair and a bit snarky; name some of your own stats if you want to say that mine are tilted or present a bias. and, I do not favor offense over defense exclusively, I am saying that his O numbers are lacking, Right? Would I not use stats to then talk about the O numbers? Besides, my entire point is that Doughty is earning money worthy of a better than average defensive D-man, but is being paid as a TWO WAY player. That was in my original commend and my responses, but as you say, people are entitled to opinions no matter whether they are based in logic or truth, or neither.
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
First off, my apologies if my comments are coming off as snarky. Not my intent.
Second, by highlighting his offensive deficiency, it seemed easy to assume that offense was your primary category for justifying his salary. And I think that you’re being a bit unfair about DD earning money worthy of a better than average defenseman. Again, if you’re looking purely at offensive stats, sure, it looks that way. But how many better than average defensemen log the same TOI against the opposing team’s top line night in and night out and still lay the hits that he does? And garners the highest praises from his coach? I bet they don’t make just $3M.
You say that you do not favor offensive stats over defense exclusively, yet your point is to highlight the offensive deficiencies instead of the whole contribution to the team’s success.
shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:29 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, so you’re saying that his offensive rushes and assists mean nothing because he’s not getting goals or the most total TOI? Because Muzzin and Voynov have better, more accurate shots for PP? And maybe he’s not always on PK because there are 5 other defensemen on the team. For the record, he’s second on the Kings with PK time, right behind Scuderi (who, as it happens, leads the league in PK time for defensemen).
I’m not trying to troll or be snarky, but I honestly want to know why his goal production is so important in relation to his salary. He’s producing offensively, just not in goals scored. So does that mean he’s worth only half of what he’s being paid to do in your opinion? Does his new leadership role and forced change in defensive style, which is a cause of lack of goals make him a player not worth $7 mil to you? Is he therefore only worth $3.5 mil which is still.more than what Scuds.makes?
I am honestly trying to figure out your logic. If he suddenly becomes a 30 goal scorer, would he then be finally worth the absurd amount of money he’s making?
PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:39 pm
@JESS- I love your shape-shifting playoff scenario- can you make it so? But also, think, what could we get for Doughty….Nevermind, I kid.
PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
@Shiny-
Ok, I will try to be more clear, sorry.
“his offensive rushes and assists mean nothing because he’s not getting goals or the most total TOI” No, his assists, alone, are ranked 28th, compared to his casp hit of 4th. Sutter also criticised his recent “rushes,” but his puck carrying ability is excellent, just not enough to offset the lack of production IMO.
“Because Muzzin and Voynov have better, more accurate shots for PP?” No, because Muzzin and Voynov are more accurate PLUS they are better playmakers, part of what a top 4 salary commands yopu must contain within your skillset.
“And maybe he’s not always on PK because there are 5 other defensemen on the team.”
If Doughty is learning to be a shutdown guy, or if his shutdown is expected to offset the lack of offensive production, then he should be a go-to PK man. He is, but less so than Voynov for a quarter of the season now, really since about 12 games in. I track that at my sote, every single game, it is there to be seen per game who gets more ice time on the PK. Voynov trended toward more, until now he is getting more PK time on ice.
“I honestly want to know why his goal production is so important in relation to his salary.” His goal production is the largest part of his lack offensively; but that lack includes the (1) playmaking ability (as recognized to be deficient by Sutter, evidenced by the decreased PP time in favor of Voynov) (2) an assists total ranking only 28th compared to his cap hit being 4th (3) the goals being godawful zero.
“He’s producing offensively, just not in goals scored. So does that mean he’s worth only half of what he’s being paid to do in your opinion? Does his new leadership role and forced change in defensive style, which is a cause of lack of goals make him a player not worth $7 mil to you? Is he therefore only worth $3.5 mil which is still.more than what Scuds.makes?” His offensive production is not nearly league-best; his cap hit is. I am saying he is overpaid for his production level, so yes, I think he would be worth about 3 to 4 million if his salary were based on his performance this year. Decent shut-down guy, decent 2nd unit PP point man but only a decent passer and a not-decent shooter, Won’t kill you defensively but is not lighting it up as a stopper, either.
when he is getting paid top 4 in the league, dude, how much value can be placed on intangibles? Sure, he could develop, and he probably will, but this year, he is being overpaid, overpaid by a mile, and all stats show mediocre to better than average for a guy getting paid more than everybody but 3 guys. Are you telling me that Doughty is clearly one of the best 4 defensemen this year?
Osaka Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:54 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, Your missing the point about salaries. Because DD is paid more that Kopi doesn’t mean he should be paid more. It means his skill set for the position is more scarce.
PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 7:03 pm
@Osaka-
Excellent point, Osaka, but I did factor it in. I mean, look at this article, it’s all about how rare the Right shooting D-man is. you make a good point, it does elevate Doughty’s worth, but not to the degree it sounds like you a believe.
http://holdthepoint.com/2013/03/17/i-cant-shoot-left-it-doesnt-feel-right-so-i-shoot-right-its-the-only-way-left/
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:21 pm
@Lake Forest, You made perfect sense to me. I don’t know why it had to keep going, and going, and going.
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Ashykon Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 1:57 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, we pay him 7 mill because as this season shows he can play any type of defenseman we need him too
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:14 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
I don’t know but using words like “awesome”, “of course we’re happy with him”, and “not many guys can do that” seem to speak volumes of how DS feels about DD even if they’re not up to your standards of accolades.
It seems apparent that you value what a player is paid by the number of goals they score more than anything else, whereas the people that actually get paid to coach and evaluate talent place value over other attributes.
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
@vplaza, +1
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PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
@vplaza, wow, my argument is nowhere nearly that shallow. Re-read what I am saying.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
I have and the result is the same. You value offensive totals more than anything else.
Whereas DS and DL, who are actually paid to do this and have way more years of experience playing this game than most of us here, value more than offense. And I believe that they also feel that DD’s offense will come back and that his lack of offense today in no way means he is not worth the money they are paying him. Everyone else is obviously entitled to their opinions and to pull out stats that only tell part of the picture.
jet Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, take DD away and we don’t make the playoffs. there is 7 million reasons to make the playoffs.
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shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:02 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, Doughty has long been scrutinized for his big fat contract, especially after he held out for more.money.
But I ask you this: do you honestly believe that DL was strong armed by some punk kid (who was and is showing still that he has tons of talent and potential) and his (notorious) agent into making such an outlandish deal as opposed to letting him walk if he (DL) did not feel that he (DD) was worth it?
Perhaps his value goes beyond what he is doing on the ice right now. Furthermore, I postulate this question to you: Dustin Brown, our captain, makes approximately half of his counterpart (Kopi). Are you therefore suggesting that the man they pay to lead this team, score goals and be a 2-way forward is less valuable because he doesn’t make as much? I see where you’re trying to go with your argument, but in terms of dollar amounts, it’s flawed
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PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:26 pm
@shiny, First, it is not logically consistent with my position to say, as you do about Brown and Kopi, that the value and worth of their play is determined by the salary. I am saying the salary determines the level of performance to be expected. The question should be “would Dustin Brown be worth the same as Kopi, based on performance?”
I would reverse your argument: should Dustin Brown have been paid for his current performance level all the years he was developing into the current level?
As well, regarding Brown, his contract is much older, was signed a lot of development years ago. Brown then was worth less than Brown now, and so much less, that Brown is now an outstanding value if you start with salary and then look at performance.
Doughty signed his last year, so wouldn’t he more reasonably be expected to be playing up at a worth equal to the more recent contract terms?
DL himself talked about (I am paraphrasing) that he was paying for potential, and overpaying at that for the first few years.
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KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, He’s salary demands he plays a lot of minutes and that we win. Nothing else really matters. Nothing.
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PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
@KC23, party pooper.
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PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:57 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, Gotta leave tyhe keyboard, much fun. Salutes.
Osaka Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:58 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, Kopi also signed his deal a few years ago. I remember at the time I though we paid too much for Kopi.
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I say Doughty is playing great on defense side…Offense side well the only reason he not scoring is shooting the puck fast enough and when he shoots it its 10 seconds wind up and misses all the time..Fix that then i say everything is okay.
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jess Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:02 pm
@KingsFanFTW,
He’s not playing offense because that’s not his primary objective given the current situation. He is fufilling the role we need him too at the moment just fine. Goals are coming from plenty other places right now.
Then of course, there’s DD’s big wind up / telegraphed shot from the point which needs a little work
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
@jess, yea that most of the reason am not getting mad at him…When he scores his first its going to be a big one..Hopefully today is the day if not there will be other games.
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jess Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
@KingsFanFTW,
Well, I hear ya, but I for one (like Sutter) -am not concerned about it. They will come when they come. Me thinks in the playoffs, you will see better O numbers from him.
shiny Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
@jess, I said it earlier but he doesn’t take that one timer shot. Muzzin fed him a perfect pass and he had a clear shooting lane but he faked and then tried to shoot it in. I think it’s gotten to the point where Sutter has given Doughty shooting tips and he can talk until he’s blue in the face but until Doughty decides to listen and take his advice, Sutter can’t do anything for him
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DD sometimes tries too hard, but he is a great player and has great sense too in hockey, as did you see last night he was in the crease and got the puck to not go in but way down the ice?
So if our boys can just keep playing like they are, all should be good.
Yep I am in line too bad Sutter is married, Love him too, now there’s a man for you, direct, no lying and says what he means, and he is a really very nice person too, I can sense that he is kind too.
Go Kings Go!
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:26 pm
@gailweb, …and for good measure, he got run into the crossbar by Shame Doan.
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Doughty and Muzzin with Kopi rotating high thru the slot on the PP is looking really good.
This is not the only new PP look we are watching.
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KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:47 pm
@Kman, Kopitar has never played better on the half boards on the PP. He finally has options because players are finally moving to open up passing lanes. The biggest difference I see in the PP is Muzzin and Voynov are exceptional at providing open passing lanes to each other and shooting when there is an open shooting lane with friendly traffic in front.
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Kman Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 4:13 pm
@KC23,
Excellent description…”friendly traffic in front”.
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DD became a phase ‘A’ player this season and just in time. Every great player does what is needed to win. Right now, we do not need more scoring. We need tight defense with some intimidation. DD is playing very well positionally considering he often has to back up his partner. He is also throwing some hard checks on what is a very small defence. DD has grown more than any other player over the past 112 months.
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jet Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
@jet, 12
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
@jet,
Since some folks like to throw stats around, DD is 7th in the league in hits.
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KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
@jet,
+1
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
@jet, Good point. Guys like Dewey may not be ultra consistent, but they get on their A game when their A game is necessary.
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How can any of us forget DD carrying the pucl the length of the oce and burying it in the net during the playoffs? DS is supporting DD because DD is doing what DS has told him to do, play defesne, eat up minutes clear the zone with a quick pass to the forwards.
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 2:59 pm
@DesertKing,
I think that’s the problem. Some people haven’t forgotten and want to see it all the time (or at least score goals all the time).
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PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:09 pm
@vplaza, well, not all the time. How about, ummmmmm, one time?
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vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:12 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
I’ll be happy to see him score any time. But the point is that isn’t all he is paid to do. Yes, there are expectations of more than zero goals, but his other contributions to the team’s success offset that deficiency in this weird shortened season.
And if DS is good with it, I don’t see why I shouldn’t be.
PlayerXatHoldThePoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
@vplaza- Nicely said, we’ll just have to agree to disagree about Doughty, and I recognize I won’t get far contradicting Sutter, but I remain disappointed. Salute.
vplaza Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:39 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint,
My last post on this for the day…truth is, if the Kings were out of a playoff spot AND we have DD struggling offensively, I’m guessing the slack he is getting here would be a bit less. Fortunately, the Kings have been able to score and win without his offensive production.
It’s hard to argue with results so far and the Kings have a Cup and are in a position to contend for another one, so things aren’t so bad.
KC23 Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
@PlayerXatHoldThePoint, I’ll take wins. Who is scoring or not scoring means squat. We’re 4th in the conference and that is only because the Ducks are having an incredible year (although just 1-1 against us).
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
@vplaza, No kidding.
I want him to throw that Rob Blake hip check three times a game too!
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Dougty hsd problems in the off season that we all heard about, it probably threw him off. In addition, the make up of the defense has changed. Muzzin is hot now. It happens. Doughty should just decide, okay enough, let me show them what I could do now that we’re in the back stretch. This would be the perfect time for him to breakout. We need another goal scorrer and by god can he score when he’s on. And lastly he was there last year and now’s the time we need the old Kings back along with the new. Ergo- Carter, Kopi and the rest of King Clan.
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will Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
@Richard, weren’t the problems mainly during the cup run? that is when Doughty was at his best! maybe another girl should go cry wolf
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:32 pm
@Richard, Or, he could actually listen to his coach, as he has been:
It’s like I tell him, ‘Just beat one. You don’t have to beat five.’ Because if you beat one, there’s a good chance you’re making a good enough play that somebody else is going to be open.
That’s not the scoring guy.
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Some Random thoughts:
* Not terribly concerned that Doughty has no goals. Goals are coming from plenty of other places including other defensemen. It’s more important that Goals DON’T go in our net while Mitchell and Greene are out, and the last several games that is his focus.
* Not looking like we’ll get a stay at home. What asset would you trade?
* Iginla for Bernier would be absolute insanity. DL is not that stupid. I’m sure the rumor was started by Calgary fans as they smoke a lot of funny stuff up there in Alberta. It’s the only explanation for what they think they can get from us in a trade. Oh, and by the way you morons, you aren’t getting Toffoli either.
* Agree completely with what Jon Rosen posted earlier. If we defend the cup
I GUARANTEE you Quick will be in net during that run, not Bernier. We gotta get him back into form. Bernier is correct tonite because of the back to backs. After that it should be Quick as much as possible.
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xeropoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 4:19 pm
@HockeyNerd,
*Doughty is 23. NO concern, whatsoever, for my part. All the salary talk is overblown. Hell, in 2 years, that deal will look like a steal and then Drew will be JUST entering his prime. With his new responsibilities, this will develope his game even further, and you’ll see the Norris trophies start to stack up.
*If Buffalo wants to get younger, we could perhaps snag up Regehr (and his expiring deal) as a nice veteran, stay-at-home rental. Not to mention Sutter being very familiar with him. Not sure what Buffalo would want back, but I suspect they *should* want draft picks.
*No, no and NO on Iginla.
*Agreed, although if he DOES struggle, I would bet cash money on seeing what Bernier can do in the clutch.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
@xeropoint, I don’t see the upside in Regehr, unless they get him for, say, Richardson (and why would that happen?) because you know he’d just be a rental. IMHO, he’s not exactly Mitchell (who is?)
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xeropoint Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 5:58 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, The upside is, he’s on an expiring deal. His cap hit, age, etc. are irrelevant and the team gets what it doesn’t currently have: a healthy, stay-at-home type who can log some minutes on the PK and help keep the crease clear. Do you really want to go with Ellerby, A-Mart and Muzzin as 1/2 your defensive core into the playoffs?
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Of course I don’t, but he’s going to cost a portion of the future, and I don’t see that he an offer enough.
Calgary blog:
Eh? (Puff, puff) we should give them Iginla, we can get Toffoli, Bernier, and Kopitar. Eh? (Puff, puff) like eh that’d be a good trade for us, oh, eh, forgetting something this stuff makes you lose your memory (puff, puff) oh yeah I think they’d throw in … Who’s that Guy, eh? Oh Carter. (Puff, puff)
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Well Mr. Doughty……no secret I have not been a fan of your defensive abilities since day one.
But, I’m really witnessing Drew stepping up this year.
Yes his stats don’t lie however his effort and heart is much better. This is called maturity…..he is starting to get it regarding doing what he needs to ensuring the team succeeds.
His offensive abilities are still there just not hitting on all cylinders right now…………..long term its a good spend for Doughty he is still regarded one of the NHL top defensemen.
Notice I didn’t say top defensive defensemen.
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Osaka Reply:
March 19th, 2013 at 8:52 pm
@harty, You weren’t a believer after the playoff run? He was from another planet! I think it could have been argued DD for Conn Symthe.
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I just want to say it, because no one else has–so far as I can tell. Mike Richards was absolutely all-team stop-the-puck when things got crazy over that last few minutes last night, helping Quick keep his shutout. The guy was selling out like the score was tied in game seven of the finals. Props to Mikey!
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On whether Doughty should pick his spots on when attempting to use the impressive “one-man breakout” he used in the first period against Phoenix last night:
‘Well, if you do that all the time, you’re not a very good player.’
Do it once early in a game, and you’ll have their attention, and probably have an easier time with those outlet passes throughout the rest of the game.
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Hey, in 1982-83 Rod Langway won the Norris Trophy and scored 3 goals all year! Who cares how many goals DD scores? There is more to it than that.
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Sutter’s been destroying teams for a very long time now. First as coach and then as G.M. too. Ask the Flames fans about his talent assessment abilities. Anybody who signs that tent pole Bouwmeester to the crazy amount he did has no right to make comments about Brian Campbell. Campbell’s on a crappy team with a ton of injured players on it. He’s a career plus player and one of the best d-men in the NHL. He’s been a +28 with two different teams, one of them the Stanley Cup champions, when Keith was a minus I believe. Sutter’s come off the luckiest 6 month stretch of hockey coaching in his career and clearly its gone to his head. Hope that mentality doesn’t leak down to his players or it’ll be a short playoffs this year.
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mcmasterkev Reply:
March 20th, 2013 at 6:57 am
Actually I just checked, Campbell was 12th in the league in plus minus once year when he played for Buffalo and tied for 11th one year when he played with Chicago. Nice frame of reference Sutter. Nice way to call out a player you know your team won’t be playing at all this year. Obviously you’re just bitter over the way Campbell and his old team used to skate circles around that team of old men you assembled in Calgary.
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