If credence is given to the alignments and pairings at practice this morning, the Kings may offer a whole lot of new looks in Detroit tomorrow. Here’s what I’m seeing:
Gagne – Kopitar – Brown
Clifford – Carter – Williams
King – Richards – Nolan
Richardson – Stoll – Fraser – Lewis
Ellerby – Doughty
Scuderi – Voynov
Martinez – Drewiske
Quick / Bernier
Penner is wearing a black jersey, complementing Muzzin.
I’ll have quotes and more updates in the air on the way to Detroit.
Richards demoted?
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Gustavo Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:11 am
@goldielocks,
I see it more as a wake up call, not a demotion
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Kenny44 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:01 am
@Gustavo,
That line started to bring Richards out of his funk last year. At least he won’t have to be the first guy dropping gloves anymore
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:48 am
@Kenny44, What if someone knocks out Jordy?
Guess who’s gonna be first in with the 5 + 2 (instigator) + 2 (visor)!
Kings20 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
@goldielocks, How long are we going to think that players like Fraser,Lewis and Richardson belong here. I rather see Antony Stewart, Toffoli,Pearson,Vey. It’s a short season, let this kids prove that they belong
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Kings20 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
@goldielocks, King and Nolan can play this game. Maybe having a good center will help.
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harty Reply:
February 10th, 2013 at 4:44 am
@Kings20, Long is going to disappoint you all season, why……..he’s not that good and he should be in Manchester
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harty Reply:
February 10th, 2013 at 4:45 am
@harty, that should be king not long? don’t why that happened.
I think the Stoll/Lewis line has worked pretty hard. Richards hasn’t been playing where he is capable of…but…not sure about these lines! Hey, Sutter is the coach right? GO KINGS!
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harty Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:57 am
@Harry, as I said earlier we need to shake them up……….
about time.
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Hmmm
Richards and Stoll down.
Gags up.
Penner still in a “spot”.
Brown now has two guys to support with hits.
Clifford serves the same for Carts & Williams.
Didn’t Richards center these guys late last season?
Ellerby with Doughty. Talk about frying pan into the fire!
Should this hold up during the game, it will be very interesting to watch. The Happy Farmer is making a statement I think.
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I like the defensive pairings, but those forward lines just look weird.
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Ravens Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:53 am
@Wilmonde, I Love the Defensive pairings, I really think this is going to bring some much needed stability and balance, I love Gags on the top line too
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Don’t like Brown on RW, but I do like Stoll going to the 4th line. Gagne played a fair amount of LW for Kopitar last year so that line is famliar enough with each other. Richards to the 3rd line makes sense, he just hasn’t been scoring enough to deserve 2nd line minutes.
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IceGuy Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:09 am
@KC23,
I don’t care which side Brownie is on – he’s got to start hitting some people and fighting to get in front of the net.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:43 am
@IceGuy, Agreed.
When you saw DB unceremoniously knocked down by Beauchemin last weekend (one of NHL’s Hits of the Week) the thought had to go through your head, that is one aspect of the Kings’ play that needs to reverse in a hurry!!
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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:10 am
@KC23, But, but but…Richards is tied in points with Gagne, Williams, Brown, Kopitar and Clifford.
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KC23 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:34 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), Lets also consider, PP time Richards has had, his plus/minus rating … not so great.
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DEH Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:57 pm
@KC23, PP points do not count towards the +/- though…
rogiesbackup Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:45 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), Last year early in the season Kings noticed “good chemistry” with Gagne, Kopitar, and Williams. It WAS good, the three did put up points. Keep in mind this was under TM! Hope JStevens can give that input to DS.
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Steve Jensen Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:15 am
Dont like Brown on right dide, either. Also dont like Carter fown the middle.
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:22 am
@Steve Jensen,
Carter is a center. He’s been playing out of position with the Kings.
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Steve Jensen Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:17 am
@Michael J., I think Carter is more effective a wing. I’m aware he came up as a center, but he has great finishing hands. Rather have him snipe than play make.
djspock92 Reply:
February 10th, 2013 at 5:12 am
@KC23, I like the idea of Lewis potentially sitting in the press box. The guy only shows up during the playoffs and is non-existent in the regular season.
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unrelated question: how do I get a picture/icon to appear in that little box next to each post?
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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:11 am
@Shuchuk,
gravatar.com
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They’re called “avatars”.
I’ve logged mine in with Gravatar: https://en.gravatar.com/site/signup/
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Well hey, nothing else thus far seems to be working, so why not mix up the lines and try to get a reaction out of the players? Hopefully Ellerby will bring something new to the table.
I’m curious, do people see this as demotion/promotions for the players? I’m not sure if Sutter sees it that way, but I don’t know him so I really shouldn’t make that assumption.
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It’s a true TM shakeup this morning in Detroit! Puck73 would be proud.
Let’s work from the bottom up:
Penner: Is it just me or does if feel like this guy is headed out the door? Doghouse doesn’t seem to explain it. He’s at the pound at this point.
Defense: With 3 OD’s (offensive defensemen) in DD, VV and AM it makes sense to have Muzzin sit over DD2. Sir Ellerby is touted as a SAH (stay at home) defenseman so he compliments Scuds and DD2. So far anyway, as I don’t think Keaton is even in the same league as Mitchell (technically, yes, but you know what I mean).
The most interesting move on D to me is breaking up the Scuds, DD pair. I don’t know if that’s just a “Who’s best paired with Ellerby” type thing or a sign of dissatisfaction in their play. Or something else one of you come up with.
Offense coming up… your thoughts?
[Reply]
vinny Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:30 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), lol poor penner..oh, and i would like to see andreoff come up. think it would “hurt” his game? (being rushed/limited minutes)
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Kings20 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
@vinny, Toffoli needs to be in the line up
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IceGuy Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:32 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
The deep problem is with the Forwards.
We seem to be in a kind of “one and done” rut. Rush into the zone – pass puck around the outside – shot from point – lose puck – head back for defense. You just have to look at our Shots on Goal vs opponent’s Blocked Shots numbers and it tells the tale. Opponents know where we’re shooting from and set up to stop those shots. Without moving puck and feet, without cross ice passing and one timers, without crashing the net we’re a non-creative, outside shooting offense. The results show up on the scoreboard.
As for Scuds … he’s carrying a lot more minutes than his legs can deliver.
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kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
@IceGuy,
You nailed it!!
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:32 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
I was thinking that Penner had gone from the outhouse to what??? Pound works well. I’m not so sure wnat the problem is, but I think you might be right that his days as a King are numbered.
I think that Ellerby’s pairing with DD might have as much to do with his age (or Scuderi’s age) as anything else. I think the extra minutes are taking their toll on RS.
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Kenny44 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:07 am
@Michael J.,
Agree. And with Doughty out there, Ellerby doesn’t have to be the “star” and can just play stay at home without being a disappointment.
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kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
@Michael J.,
I think it’s a little unfair what’s going in with Penner. He’s played 2(?) games, and the last one I thought he played well. The guy has won 2 cups, he deserves a little respect.
I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Sutter believes Penner is an accident prone liability on the Ice, and until he feels otherwise, Penner sits.
He know’s what we all know about Penner, that he’s a couple of fries short of a happy meal, and his off-ice statements along with the goofiness he brings to the locker room is evidence enough that he is, in fact, a Liability.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:46 pm
@kissmyfruityloops, if your first and last paragraphs are your opinions they don’t quite jive.
Anyway, Penns (slow) dances to the swing of his own sax like a guy who has ultimate belief in himself even when no one else does. He knows he didn’t get where he’s at (2 bells on his toes) by being maleable and discouraged from his own Penny-wise style.
He could be too zen even for the Zen Farmer to figure out … whom equally aint gunna put up with any other b______’s cowdung …. = impasse.
I really think DS feels the longer he holds DP out the more desirable the result and he’s probably right.
After last season’s late tempo adjustment I doubt that DP is on the trading block just yet. Barring an unbelievable winning streak he’ll get his chance again.
He may never be a 60 minute player, but a 48 game regular season ( – a few games in the Penn pen) might just end up suiting his proven mercurial capabilities/biological cycle, to everyone’s benefit and surprise.
Definitely our wildcard is DP, and our secret bonus weapon.
We need to bear with him and let him finish his hibernation.
Without a doubt, ‘Cakes is plotting his flip around, even as we speak!
kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 6:08 pm
@kissmyblarneystones,
My first and last paragraphs definitely present a conundrum. But it is how I feel about him. I think he is his own worst enemy who is ENTITLED to every opportunity to prove, once again, that he is in fact worthy. And as you said I also feel he is too zen for the zen farmer.
rogiesbackup Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
@Michael J., I think penner would be awesome if he/Kings just PLANTS him in the SLOT…this season I haven’t seen him there!!!
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:34 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), Well, Sutter did say DD/Scuds were on the ice for far too many GA so maybe it’s a matter of trying something new and perhaps giving Scuds a break on ice time.
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monkeyboy Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:34 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
Penner was told exactly what was expected from him before he as resigned so far he has not been the player that was expected. I agree he just may be on the way out. Tofuli may get a chance?
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KC23 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:39 am
@monkeyboy, Penner = LW, Toffoli = RW. Toffoli is basically behind Williams, Brown, Lewis and Nolan
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monkeyboy Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:40 am
@KC23, whoops…forgot that
Kenny44 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:08 am
@KC23, Penner will tell you he’s a right wing, too.
CB14 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:27 am
@KC23, But Brown’s a much better LW than RW.
Kings20 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
@KC23, Iwill put Toffoli in front of Williams, Lewis and Nolan
rick Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:51 am
@monkeyboy, Penner is such a huge disappointment. Talent, likeable guy – but no heart. Our very own Tin Man. Perhaps it is time for Dorothy and Todo to dump him.
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:13 pm
@rick, ” But Sutter never gave nothing to the tin man, that he didn’t, didn’t really have”
Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
@LVKINGS25, Don’t know about all that, just that when you’re really, really rusty … it feels good to be out of the rain!
Goon Squad Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:48 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
Although Voynov has been perhaps the best defenseman on the team so far, he remains a young player learning the game who needs a veteran presence. That would be my guess as to why Scuderi is lining up there. Plus it’s a short season and Darryl needs to find out quickly where Ellerby tops out, so why not find out if he could be a good partner for Doughty – he’s gonna need one soon enough!
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:54 am
@Goon Squad, I always thought it was odd that DS would pair a young, inexperienced defenseman with a rookie. You make a good point about the defense.
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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:59 am
@Goon Squad, Good point. Also, I guess having Doughty covering Ellerby is the best person to make up for his mistakes
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Not sure what Sutter seeing in Clifford. Everytime opponent scored he was almost always on the ice. He seemed lost.
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:27 am
@goldielocks,
Cliofford has been on the ice for seven goals against. A drop in the bucket compared to Doughty’s 17 and Scuderi’s 16-for whatever that is worth…
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20132LAKFAFALL&sort=teamGoalsAgainst&viewName=plusMinus
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goldielocks Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:35 am
@Michael J.,
Not the fair comparison for the D-pair considering their ice time and sifts. And Richards, Carter, and Brown are key players whether they score or not but Clifford is not and he had less TOI. He must contribute defensively as well.
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:47 am
@goldielocks,
Hence “for what it’s worth”. Comparing DD & KC goals against is like comparing apples and coconuts.
Harvey Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:31 am
@goldielocks, Sutter is seeing a player with a lot of jump in his game and tied for 1st in points. He will make room for these 2 guys. The defense is what is hurting us right now. The kid has been great on the PK as well. Hope this helps
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Real 7 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:37 am
@goldielocks, actually…Doughty, Scuderi, Richards and Brown are the biggest minus players…
you’d never guess who has the only +3 …
http://kings.nhl.com/club/stats.htm
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goldielocks Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:42 am
@Real 7,
You really shouldn’t read too much in +/- stat. Longer you are on the ice more you get minus when the whole team don’t defend. When the team defend and score well, it goes the other way.
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bmova Reply:
February 10th, 2013 at 8:28 am
@goldielocks,
My minutes weren’t that high and I still had the worst +/-.
Sincerely,
JMFJ
hbjohn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:41 am
@goldielocks, And most of those goals were a direct result of poor center play by fraser. But we all know you hate Clifford and couldn’t expect you to see or understand that with the blinders on. If Clifford isn’t good defensively, he wouldn’t be playing on the PK and doing a pretty damn good job with it.
I think Clifford has provided some of the best energy and play out of all forwards so far. Always skating hard, never see him coasting like some of the other forwards.
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goldielocks Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
@hbjohn,
Oh, sorry. I didn’t know I hate the guy. I thought he could be a brilliant power forward and I said it before many times. But as a 3rd and 4th liner which opponent team most likely matches up with their top and 2nd line, he should be more accountable with his defensive game. That’s all I’m saying. And if you didn’t see him beaten in the middle, you are not watching the same game as I did.
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harty Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:59 am
@goldielocks, are you kidding me……..Kyle has been one of the hardest working forwards this season. If he was given the oppotunities others get (Gagne, williams, Stoll, Lewis) he would be still leading the team in scoring. His size is critical for the league right now.
Kyle just has to go to the net more often because Carter and Williams both like to shoot.
He can offer a screen, deflection or rebound guy, not withstanding the size issue will cause.
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rogiesbackup Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:47 pm
@harty, Penner was GOING in front of the net in playoffs last season…he/kings haven’t done so this season. Big guys like Clifford and Penner HAVE to crashed the net…that simple!!!
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Nolan has been playing hard since game 1. King has also, but his production has lacked.
I remember Richards centered them when they came up to the big club last year and gelled pretty damn well. I posted then that King & Nola did well because Richards was making them better players than they ever were in the AHL.
Nothing wrong with trying that line again to help the youngsters develop and produce. Neither Nolan nor King are first or second liners. So it makes sense to move Richards down to the 3rd line, not as a demotion, but as in a leadership / mentoring role. Much like Mitchel and Scuderi did with DD and Voynov.
Carter is a better shooter than he ever was as a center. Besides Martinez, he is the only ‘shoot first from anywhere’ player we got. I’m not sure that giving him center duties will be productive. Maybe Clifford’s physicality and Williams creativity will open up enough space for Carter.
I like that Ellerby is in the line up already. I imagine DS muttering something like: “Yo, Adrianne (Ellerby) yu an NHL playa. Yu godda play like one. Go ou dere and du yo ding”
(Translation: “Hey, Ellerby. you’re an NHL player. You have to play like one. Go out there and do your thing”)
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:36 am
@Gustavo, But Carter is a center. Doesn’t it seem like he’d fit in best as a center and not on a wing?
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Kenny44 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:45 am
@Gustavo,
Re Carter with Williams – JW said the other night that he thinks of himself as a playmaker, more than a shooter. I don’t think the C always has to be the dish man. Carter can carry the mail through the neutral zone just fine. I’d like to see center lane drive from Cliffy and some give and go plays with JC and JW.
On this line, Richards will have to simplify his game and that will be good for him right now. He won’t have to try to keep up with Carter on O and then hustle back on D after they take a chance and miss. He hasn’t had the energy for that type of game this season.
I agree with you on Ellerby, too. At first I thought he seems like a fit in Greene’s role, the big guy with a bad attitude. But putting him with AMart didn’t seem like the pairings line up right (lefty/righty, experience, etc). But I like DS’ guts and creative thinking here. Give DD someone who can keep up and rest the bottom 4 which seemed like mismatches.
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harty Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:40 pm
@Gustavo, King is too slow, really he’s a big body and its going to use it to his advantage……
I cannot see King playing up here with the Kings.
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Kenny44 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
@harty, King has definitely taken a step back this year. He’s trying to go around guys rather than through them, which is what made him successful last year. Even his “pretty” plays last year involved him just overpowering guys to create space, rather than try to race guys. Trying to play that way also exposes his lack of speed.
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Sutter is seeing a player with a lot of jump in his game and tied for 1st in points. He will make room for these 2 guys. The defense is what is hurting us right now. The kid has been great on the PK as well. Hope this helps.
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Again working from the bottom up…
Richardson – Stoll – Fraser – Lewis
What we got ourselves here is the ‘Center’ line. All natural centermen. Very odd to look at. Since someone has to sit and Richardson has been the odd-man-out, it makes sense on the surface to put him in the press box. Right? Wrong. If I’m guessing, which I am, I think having Stoll and Fraser on this line means one of them sit tomorrow. My guess is Fraser, which basically makes the ’4th’ line, a ’3rd’ line. Agree?
King – Richards – Nolan
I’ve been waiting for the new center alignment to take place. I figured if the Kings kept struggling, that’s what would happen and sure enough here it is. I like this line. Richards, to me, compliments King and Nolan much more so than Stoll. This should be a fun line to watch. Good size, gritty as can be and can score.
Clifford – Carter – Williams
With Carter moving back to center, it really frees up Sutter to find complimentary wingers. Clifford’s rise and fall and rise again must make him feel like he’s at Magic Mountain and not Detroit. This is another line I really like. With JW’s dishing to Carter, I can see them being a pair for a long while if they start to produce. Clifford, of course, gives them that Forechecking might that’s needed to keep the puck in.
Gagne – Kopitar – Brown
So, Brown jumps back to the right. This seem to be the oddest change but coupled with the 2nd line change, makes sense. However, I think Gagne takes the ‘shooter’ role here and that was what was missing from the Brown/Kopi/JW line IMO. Kopi certainly needs to shoot more himself, but with Gags next to him and Brown crashing, I think it gives Kopi 2 targets to dish the puck to who can finish.
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goldielocks Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:49 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
What I found interesting in this line combo is, those are the same member we had in playoffs but in this order, it suddenly looks not so good on the paper … I somehow see less scoring touch on those lines. Adding a new scoring touch or two won’t hurt, don’t you think?
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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:54 am
@goldielocks, Not sure what you mean by adding a new scoring touch? A productive Penner is missing and that’s huge.
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:37 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
A productive or unproductive Penner, either way, is huge.
Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:54 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
Replace Gagne with Penner and it works for me
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vinny Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:57 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), little unsure of carter at center only cause i didnt seem to notice em too much against the hawks when he was in that position. but good breakdowns
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Anyone know exactly what’s going on with Mitchell? Boy is he missed. I don’t feel comfortable with Drewiske out there. Martinez and Doughty are playing like rookies, and Drewiske looks lost. I really hope Ellerby solely concentrates on defense. Kings could use another stay at home defenseman to drop Drewiske out of the lineup. Losing two of your top four defenseman to start the year on a 48 game schedule? Nightmare.
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Uggh. Me no like. Did this team really win the Stanley Cup last year???
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Vertigo, but after looking at it 3-4 times now, I think like it. I hope Stoll centers L4, a definite upgrade in speed/energy, and hopefully less cringing for me.
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rick Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 9:57 am
@KingsATX, I did the same thing to try and make myself feel better, but no go. Brown is much better on left wing, Clifford is simply not a second line winger, Richards with a pair of non-scoring wingers, a group of non-producers on 4th line…..I could go on. We have retreated to the days of Terry Murray. When Sutter starts talking about people being heavy on their sticks, the transformation will be complete. I didn’t expect us to roll through the league this year, but to see these kinds of changes this soon give me a very bad feeling.
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KingsATX Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:02 am
@rick, The upheaval is interesting in that I mostly blame a broken (injured) D/system for much of the failure. It’s not like scoring ever came easy last year. With Quick’s numbers looking surprisingly human, we won’t win many with 1 or 2 goals anymore, so that dynamic has changed more than anything.
That being said, the lines felt stagnant. I realize it feels desperate, but I still welcome the shuffling of the deck. Hopefully something clicks.
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
@KingsATX, Hopefully it’s not the shuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:11 pm
@LVKINGS1912, But we’re still “THE KINGS OF THE WORLD!!!”.
I don’t like Brown on the right side, but the lines weren’t getting it done as they were, so here we are.
With Richards at center, it forces the opponent to match centers on all four lines, and match up with three line (provided King and Richards can play offense again). Richards and Stoll should handle every 3rd and 4th line center in the league.
Scuds with VV could be a response to Voynov looking like the Kings best offensive threat on D, and a move which allows him to play more offense than he was previously with Martinez. Ellerby in the first pair is frightening.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, every time the Kings get away from being a team that cycles the puck down low, they struggle. Through lineup changes over the years, with Frolov, Smyth, Simmonds, and Handzus type players leaving, or dressing players that simply don’t try and establish a cycle and instead take outside shots without net front presence, results in losses. It’s the NHL game, and unless you’re Chicago, you’ve gotta cycle. No one scores off of the rush much anymore, it’s not 1991.
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goldielocks Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:07 am
@Hutch,
I see this line combo as defensive counter strategy. Like you said there were only 2 lines the opponent had to worry about but with this combo it expanded to 3. But at the same time, offensive production might go down with this move.
However, I disagree with cycling down low is the only way to be productive. The way they scored goals in playoffs were coming from the rush, turnover, and breakaway, and they are certainly capable to do it. I hope DS wouldn’t bring back TM’s dump and chase – cycling down low strategy, and keep his faith in their skills.
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crashin'da net Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 3:20 pm
@goldielocks, offensive production mught go down?? How much further can it go? Honeslty, it looks like we have 2-#2 lines and 2-#3 lines. don’t like KC on the 2nd line. Swap KC and Richardson. Agree with your nixing the cycle. Dmen just watch you cycle, get tired, make a mistqake, and then they pounce on the puck/pressure you with a double-team. Everyone needs to move and that includes the Dmen flying down the middle. Dump-n-chase, onepn-doen from the point is an anachronism. We need to play smart and fast.
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yes I like the look and shake up, but DS must leave them for a couple of games, don’t pull the chute too quick, let them get used to each other.
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:05 am
@harty,
The Kings certainly look strong down the middle. I agree with you that they need to let this play out for a few games.
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So, Penner signed a long term lease in Le Chateau Bowwow. Truly disappointing. I agree with most of the bloggers here that the forward lines seem a little awkward. However, I’ll reserve judgment until we actually see what transpires. As far as the D lines go, I’m liking it. Scuds and DD just wasn’t working. Too much ice time perhaps?
[Reply]
Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:06 am
@Cav Pilot, Scuds definitely was getting way too much ice time. I don’t think he was concentrating very well when he was battling so much fatigue. I also noticed in the game against the Preds the other day that Scuds was acting as a screen for the Preds and one of their guys basically just walked right in behind Scuds and scored the goal (first goal of the game).
Let’s see if this shake up works.
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Cav Pilot Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:40 am
@Robyn, Shake ups are normally a sign of desperation and rarely have much of an impact. Having said that, I think bringing in Ellerby might just give Scuds enough a break to become effective again. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:04 am
@Cav Pilot, Nothing else seems to be working right now. I think DL is right that everyone is kind of counting WM to come back soon and they all were kind of holding their breath. Ellerby’s presence is supposed to help the team regain focus (gotta help the new guy get adjusted and everyone has to focus on the same goal, which is to score goals) and I think Sutter is just trying to find something that will get the guys to play their best.
As you said, though, we’ll see what happens tomorrow. We’re all hoping this new change will work, but it’s wait and see at this point.
I don’t see Richards moving down just as a demotion. Shaking up the wingers is due to none of the lines sooring. But the 4th line has been burned for a lot of goals and close calls. Putting Stoll at center gives that line a better shot at winning D zone faceoffs anc clearing the zone. Carter is not tough enough for a 3td line, so Richards anchors that line.
Sutter (I thin) is trying to keep the GA down and hoping the changes spur some offense I don’t see the mixed up wings on L1 and L2 workking and wouldn’t be surprised if that changes during the game.
I understand that Sutter has to be frustrated at the first 2 lines not only not scoring but not getting quality shots and sustained offence. You shake it up…see if it flies.
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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:15 am
@Deirdre,
One thing to remember is Sutter doesn’t look at lines as 1,2,3,4 so Richards move isn’t a demotion at all in that sense. It’s about finding what works as you said.
The funny thing is I believe this lineup would have worked better against Nashville and the lineup on Thursday against the Preds would work better against Detroit.
Sutter, IMO, has out-thought himself a couple of times this season. I think this is another one of those times.
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kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),
Yikes!!!
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Change is good right?
come on boys lets go
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I think we are in the midst of a possible trade here. With Penner not playing along side any lines and with a line full of centers I could see a trade happening with 2 or 3 of these guys. My guess would be Fraser-Penner-Lewis. Maybe get 1 guy and a draft pick in return (Not sure who or which round). For some reason that’s just what it feels like. We need some scoring punch and power but hey we were in this same spot last year the only difference was Quick was allowing less goals.
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Also, it gives Babcock a lot to think about. Kopi-Carter and Richards down the middle will give him a much harder line assignemnt and as someone else pointed out, the Wings 3rd line has been burned for quite a few goals. Although King has regreesed (I think) Nolan has looked good and Richards should be able to manuver in the Wings zone against their 3rd line.
I’d rather win 3-1 than lose 7-4 and shifting the centers downward, should keep the goals agasintg lower.
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To this point in the Western Conference, LAK are in a 4 way tie with Calgary, Colorado and Columbus with 8 points each. We are dead last in the Pacific Division. Does anyone else find this sad? Maybe Sutter’s changes will work.
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Richards at 3rd line Center and Stoll on the 4th line. I believe I called that one a few days ago. Anyway, i’m just glad that Sutter has finally realized that Stoll sucks, and Richards play hasn’t been much better. With that said, i’m not thrilled with the rest of the lines, but I realize alot of that is out of Sutter’s hands. There’s only so many players performing right now that it’s tough to get a solid 2 lines with players in their best positions. By moving Richards and Stoll down that meant someone had to take over at #2 center, and with no Lokti
, that meant Carter was the logical choice. That’s fine, but that now means Brown is playing RW and we all know he’s much better on LW. I’m not thrilled with Clifford at #2 LW, but he’s the best choice given the other options at LW on the roster.
Personally i’d rather see Toffoli brought up to play on Kopi’s RW with Brown moving over to Kopi’s LW and Gagne moved to Carters LW. Or put Brown on Carters LW and keep Gagne with Kopi and Toffoli. Then put Clifford at #3 LW with Richards and whomever. None of the other forwards have done much this season so I don’t care who plays where on the bottom 2 lines. Choose between Richardson and Penner as who to send down to Manchester or trade, and I don’t care if they get claimed off waivers.
Glad they broke up Scuds and DD, but I would’ve much rather seen AM with DD. I guess we’ll see just how good, or bad, Ellerby is right away. I hope he plays great with DD.
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vinny Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:54 am
@CB14, good post, I honestly agree with all of it.
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Michael J. Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:58 am
@CB14,
I think a Toffoli call up is the next move. It might be ideal to let Tyler finish the year in Manchester, but we don’t live in a perfect world.
Brown-Kopitar-Toffoli sounds like an exciting line.
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xeropoint Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:23 am
@CB14, I usually agree with you but I just don’t get the irrational hate for Stollicoaster. Sure, he’s not setting the scoresheet on fire but what do you expect from the guy, honestly? If its goals and assists, there’s plenty of candidates for vitriol (certainly more deserving ones). He’s a specialist and support player. Everyone and their mom knows he’s in there to win draws, be physical and shut down, log big PK minutes. All the onus is on the top guns. Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Doughty, Carter and Quick. Everyone else, including Stoll, are ancillary to the engine which drives this team. So far, not one of them has been good enough for more than a game at a time. As soon as that improves, so will the standings and everyone’s opinion of all the support players. IMHO, of course
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CB14 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:06 pm
@xeropoint, I think he’s overrated by pretty much everyone. He’s being paid like one of the top 3rd line Centers in the league, but he gives us 4th line output. He has given us nothing offensively the past 2 seasons. Last year his stupid penalties were a nightly occurance, granted he has cut down on those this season. With 2 of the best defensive centers in the league already on the team, i don’t see a need for someone who is slightly above average defensively but contributes nothing offensively.
Handzus and Belanger both do just as good a job, if not better, than Stoll at a much cheaper price.
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xeropoint Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
@CB14, Fair enough. Although, it’s not accurate to say he hasn’t produced the past 2 seasons. If you take away the nine games this year, he’s only 1 season removed from potting 20, as a second line center. After acquiring Richards, he slotted down and had to change his game to more of a shut down role, which he did to his credit.
Those undisciplined penalties early last year, could also be attributed to that change. I can’t argue for his contract vs. Handzus or Belanger but I can argue for their age. Both those guys are cheaper, yes. Effective checking centers, yes. But they’re also both 35.
Would I like to see Jarret score A LOT more? Hell yes. I think he would be the first to admit that. You have to ask yourself though: whose scoring is lacking and whose is more important to the teams success given their respective roles? There are two, higher profile names that come to my mind.
kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 1:14 pm
@CB14,
Why do you insist that in order to be an effective hockey player, You have to score goals?
He is a role player, which in his case, is an antagonizing defensive forward who can win face-offs. His PIM is a direct result of him doing his job, which IS NOT to score goals, but to pester and put other teams off their game.
The money he gets paid compared to other center men is irrelevant.
If you are pissed about money not being well spent on Centers, then Kopi, Richards and Carter are more deserving of your ire.
Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
@xeropoint, Correct on all counts.
Many last season took Greener for granted too, didn’t rate him because they didn’t account for the vital experience he brought, as well as various other intangibles.
Now we’re out of sorts because we’ve lost a vital cog in the wheel.
By the same token Kings fans take Stollicoaster for granted too and just don’t realize how much he’d be missed if he were suddenly infirmed or otherwise lost.
Like Greener too, the guy was that close to being a double Stanley Cup ring wearer now!
@kissmyfurrystolls, The ‘worm’, as some genial person referred to him recently, seems to be becoming as polarizing as Lokti, at least to the genial folks with such personal bipolar attitudes towards him..
CB14 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
In my main comment I also mentioned that Richards hasn’t been much better than Stoll. Kopi is coming off a knee injury and isn’t 100% yet. I also singled out MR and JS because of their poor play last season. It’s their combined play in each of the last 2 seasons that i’m basing my opinions off of.
I’m not saying you have to score goals to be an effective hockey player, but jarret stoll is paid, and expected, to score some goals, and in the past 2 seasons he hasn’t.
kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
@Duncanz;
‘…some genial person…..? Who could you possibly be talking about. Certainly not me, as I was just recently referred to as ” A ball of happiness and light” by an insider whom I suspect is of the feminine persuasion. I sense those pheromones wafting through the web.
Anyhow, I’m all for apportioning blame, as long as it’s where the blame belongs. Calling out someone because he doesn’t do what he’s not supposed to, is absurd.
I think Stoll is a worm and a cheap shot artist. Every team has one, and he’s ours.
Score some goals and win! Don’t care what the lines look like. Lowest scoring team in the league is unacceptable.
Our for check is been good but last year it was great, not creating any turn overs, how many out numbered attacks have we had this year?? Any??
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Gmo Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:19 am
@Pesus,
It is unacceptable because we have the talent to score goals.
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this is crazier then what TM ever did…..Bernier/Quick…. I love the idea of having two goalies in at once !!!!
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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:53 am
@neil, Maybe make them a defensive pair and put penner in goal.
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 10:55 am
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), I would so love to see that… Hey, maybe then Penner can come out of the pound
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Definitely psyched to see Doughboy paired with New Guy.
A big stay at home guy is what he needs in a partner.
I believe that New Guy will be reinvigorated by his new digs.
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luc20rules Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:03 am
@Munchrat, Not that it has worked this year, but DD has had his best years paired with Scuds. I wouldn’t really refer to Scuds as big, but I would never say that he is a reckless Offensive type D-man.
LOL
I also am not ready to call Ellerby a Big Stay at Home guy until I see how he plays. Solid Dmen aren’t exactly traded for 5th round picks.
Speaking of picks if the Kings don’t get out of their funk then Columbus is going to get a very high #1 from the Carter traded.
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:08 am
@luc20rules, Given that we’re in a 4 way tie with them to be dead last in the Western Conference and they suck almost as much as we do, they might get one anyway. But it doesn’t matter. DL knew that was a possibility when he traded for JC and it worked in our favor because we won the cup.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
@Robyn, I’d rather be part of an Ohian dynasty than a Californian one-off.
Watch for Scott Jowson to be GM of the Year 5x running right after he exercises that Kings’ 1st round pick!
Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:46 pm
(*Howson)
TM would be very pleased.
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Doesnt matter how many line changes you do(see TM) if you dont bring the grit and intensity.Meanwhile DS has already mixed up the lines to no success….Maybe practicing what you want ie forecheck and offense and see what happens…to me line changes is the lack of coaching/motivating…its the easy way out….
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Russ Dynda Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:18 am
@neil, It is indeed the easy way out. Looking at prior stats it would seem that several of our current players are underperforming offensively while a number of them have “found” their offensive touch when leaving. I think we should question why.
Specifically, before coming here:
Mike Richards: 28,30,31 and 23 goals — 75,80,62 and 66 points (last year 18 and 44)
Jeff Carter: 29,46,33,36 goals (too early to tell but he’s not going at a pace to challenge this)
Simon Gagne: 47,41,34,17,17 goals (The last two numbers during injury plagued seasons)
Justin Williams: 31 and 33 goals (has been over 20 with us but not approaching prior numbers)
Dustin Penner: 29,23,17,32,23 goals (except for playoff performance, totally ineffective with
All these players should be in their prime. I have seen them criticized here (particularly Penner)for being “lazy” and “heartless,” among other things. I don’t buy that, but let’s go further. Look at Anze Kopitar, my favorite player. His goal totals here are: 20,32,27,34,25 and 25. He has yet to have a season where he has scored more than a point per game. I think his skill level is up there with Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin and Stamkos and he’s smarter than most of them. Is he lazy? Absolutely not! Something else is keeping him from performing to his full potential.
Now look at some outside players. Neither Matt Moulson or Teddy Purcell could find their touch here. Yes, you could say they were relegated to 3rd and 4th line duty. For whatever reason, they blossomed offensively elsewhere. How about Wayne Simmonds. He scored 16 and 14 goals here–28 in Philly. Another interesting case is Alexei Ponikarovsky. His goal totals before coming here were: 21,21,18,23,and 19. In his one season here he scored 5. We might assume he was losing it but last year he bounced back with 14 with two different teams.
Something about all this points to a system which smothers offensive skills and creativity. It also points to coaching which is rigid and cannot get the most out of players. Players are human beings with different personalities. Just as in horse racing where some horses respond to the whip and others just sulk, people tend to respond differently to coaching styles. If that style is rigid and oppressive, it inhibits creativity, which is what great offense is largely about. Guys tend to fear making mistakes and become tentative. I see that in this team. I saw it under Murray (particularly rigidity) and I see it under Sutter. During our magical 17 game playoff run it wasn’t evident because Sutter could just coast on the wave. But now we need more coaching insight. A good coach can deal with different personalities differently without being preferential.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
@neiling, You are fast wearing through those neipads, @kneel!
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So the burning question is: Who will rescue Penner? Does someone have the heart to save him? Where is Sally Struthers???
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Robyn Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:06 am
@Michael J., Very appropriate choice of words given PA (KND)’s analogy that Penner is in the pound
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Russ Dynda Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:06 am
@Michae I want to come to the defense of Penner. He has taken a bad beating on this site. Granted, his performance has been largely ineffective. Once again, he has been accused of laziness and heartlessness. But I suspect that with more insightful coaching the goal totals he achieved in Edmonton might be attainable. I see Penner’s abilities as being misperceived. He’s a very large man and everyone sees him as a power forward, body bouncer type, and our coaching staff has tried to use him that way. I have seen him putting out effort to perform in that role and he seems to have trouble. To me, he has proven himself to be more of a finesse player with soft hands and the ability to pass. I think he would be more successful in that role, rather than in the role he is being used. If there is no place for him in that role with the Kings he should be moved. But I don’t think it’s fair to ridicule him. I suspect the guy is bewildered.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
@Michael J. Stivic, Well she already took that one Meathead off the streets.
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Nolan on the 3rd? This kid should be in the press box. We need more than a guy who hits occasionally, ruins every cycle he is involved with, and can’t fight heavyweights (so Clifford does not have to). I am not sure what some people’s love affair is with this guy. Anyone who knows the game can see that he is unable to play an offensive cycle game. The Kings were successful last year by effective offensive cycling and that is critical for a 4th line guy to do.
I liked King last year but he has regressed this season. That is typical but he needs to rebound and get that sense of urgency back. Looks a little slow and complacent.
Richards is a skilled guy and these line-mates are going to pull him down a notch. Richards has previously had the most success with guys who can buzz and make plays (Giroux, Carter, JVR, Nodl, etc).
I like the prospect of a Richardson – Stoll – Lewis line. They should be able to generate pressure and get some chances. And, at the very least be good defensively. Keep Penner (until the pancakes are worked off) and Fraser in press box.
I wouldn’t expect too much from Ellerby. I am hoping he can be a steady presence on the back end. He was drafted so high due to his raw talent and size but he really hasn’t progressed. Maybe a change of scenery will park something good in him. And, playing with DD can’t hurt. He will add toughness and grit though.
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vinny Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:50 am
@Canuck75, Idk that he ruins many cycles, although sometimes I do see it, and wonder why he doesn’t take advantage of his size more, like taking it straight to the side/front when he works himself some space/gets guys on his back and reaching, cause he definitely does that..anyway I don’t think he should be scratched simply for his hitting, cause no one else has made as many big hits I don’t think..doughty maybe..
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Save, Hrudey! Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
@Canuck75,
Richards is NOT a “skilled” guy. At least not in the conventional sense.
His true assets are heart, grit, and hockey sense.
I also believed at one point that he was skilled (before he came to LA).
But after you watch his game carefully, he is hardly very skilled compared to the other elite players in the league.
Not trying to bash him, just stating the facts. I’m very glad he’s a King btw.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 3:00 pm
@Save, Hrudey!, True. MR’s a lot of things (when he’s on form) but he’s sure not a silky skill guy.
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Seems like a lot of us are calling for an appearance of Richardson. He’s going to bring speed, a little sandpaper and a lot of hustle but not much else. The roster is full of hard working players and I honestly don’t have a problem with the effort I’ve been seeing. It’s all confidence and smarts. You can juggle the lines, insert whoever you want… The results will be the same until they can all pull together and combine that effort with some BRAINS. Clear breakdowns, in characteristic plays, terrible save percentages: all symptoms of being out of sync and an inability of these guys to focus and play smart. I personally, can’t question their hearts, so it’s gotta be the heads (and yes, Mitchell and Greene).
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xeropoint Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:32 am
@xeropoint, *uncharacteristic
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I’m alright with the line changes, what do we have to lose besides the game? It’s not working as it is anyway. A lot of it has to do with attitude right now, in a few of the games so far it looked like the Kings heads weren’t even in the game. I’ve yet to see them play a start to finish, balls out, in your face, dominating full 60 minute game. I’m just sayin…
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KC23 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:40 am
@Goring 19, Reminds me of the way the King’s looked right before they axed TM. Disinterested and not engaged.
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rogiesbackup Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 11:48 am
@KC23, This is why I sense tension between players and DS. Think honeymoon with DS is over.
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Goring 19 Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
@rogiesbackup, I didn’t want to bring that up because I didn’t want to believe it. I don’t think so-yet.
Pener = Frolov Part Deux
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Ellerby’s ultimate test with staying in the lineup is does he have good defensive stick work like Scuds, Green, mitchell witch one of the reason’s Quick’s GAA. Plus he and the dmen really need to punish people in front of the net!!!!
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What we have here is a failure to play hungry. Granted, injuries have hurt, but look at the effort on the ice. This team is too content with winning the SC. I think you bring up a couple players from Man. who have the hunger just to play in the NHL. The Kings don’t hit, skate, recheck or play “team” defense. A very poor excuse for a team and embaracsing to watch as a Kings far. Enough with all the excuses, see it for what it is, total complacency.
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forecheck, not recheck
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Still not sure if I’m going to Detroit, bummer I would like to go but 3 hour + drive by myself and home again right after given its Sunday.
But will be watching NBC for sure if not.
Hey let the lines play out for a period of time, still though I like the number 3 line with (Clifford, Richards, Williams) but I’ll enjoy watching Kyle up on the #2 unit.
Go to the net Kyle all day long and Carter and Williams will find you.
D have to get pucks through to the net, change the angle boys, draw the puck to the middle or move your feet to the outside and get the puck to the net.
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Ellerby-Doughty? The guy had trouble holding down a spot on the third pairing in Florida. I hope this is just an experiment in practice, because I’d rather they ease him into things.
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Gustavo Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 2:48 pm
@DLB,
Why crap on Ellerby before he even laces up to play a second with DD or anyone else?
Sheldon Souray had a hard time holding a place in the line up in Edmonton and look at how he’s tearing it up for the Sucks. He’s the belle of the ball among league defense men since the season began. Some resurrection, uh?
I wholeheartedly wish the same or more for Ellerby. Give the guy a chance. Much more knowledgeable hockey minds than all of us put together think he fits and belongs where he is at right now.
GO KINGS GO!
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Shuchuk Reply:
February 9th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
@Gustavo, agreed. give the new guy a chance. I’d like to see him get some more time to acclimate to his new team, but whatever. GKG.
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What did Penner do or didn’t do to deserve such treatment?
Stoll ,Richars,King,Frazer …all are so bad and unproductive.How much worse he thinks Penner is to bench him after just 2 games. This guy has talent and size. Is that less then Stoll or Richards offer?
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Here’s my opinion. Why not put williams with gagne and kpitar? Kopi plays well with williams because he can get the puck in tight places and give it to kopi. Gagne looks great this year and he’s said he would like playing with williams again. It may not be a forechecking line, but the team could use a different look and I don’t think these three will let us down. Richards will probably play pretty well with king and nolan. Carter line is interesting. Puts a lot of pressure on williams to make plays. Carter is not strong on the puck at all and he’s a terrible passer.
We should have spent less time resigning penner and more time trying to sign jaromir jagr.
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The Dude: Do you find them much, these, stolen cars?
Younger Cop: Sometimes. Wouldn’t hold out much hope for the tape deck though.
Older Cop: Or the Creedence.
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