LA Kings Night With Valencia Flyers

Posted by Rich Hammond on 24 October 2012, 2:21 pm

Hey everyone, I’ll be in Valencia this Saturday when the Kings bring their game-night experience to the Ice Station Valencia. Should be a fun night with some good hockey to watch. Here is the all the info. If you’re there make sure to come say hi! Click the link below for all the details.

LA Kings Game Night – Sat. Oct 27

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74 Comments

Subby says:

October 24, 2012 at 2:50 pm

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DesertKing says:

October 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm

Sorry, that ain’t cutting it, but thank you for the information.

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Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com) says:

October 24, 2012 at 3:06 pm

Flyers West! And seniors can get in for just $5…it’s time TM and Puck bury the hatchet!

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DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com),

That would be bootiful.

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
@Paul Armbruster (KingsNewsDaily.com), The question is will the hatchet be buried in TM or Puck. It wouldn’t be wise to have weapons available if those two are trying to work out their issues.
Just kidding Puck wouldn’t resort to that type of violence, but there is no convincing him that TM should have kept his job as long as he did.

[Reply]
The Weasel says:

October 24, 2012 at 3:31 pm

Thanks Daryl (assuming you read the comments),

We appreciate the effort to post something new everyday. While we are likely all pretty depressed about the lack of developments and while we hate that this site can’t be used to communicate anything but NHL approved stories we do appreciate that you (et al) are trying to take care of us to the best of your ability. It is appreciated.

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 4:13 pm
@The Weasel, +1

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tim says:

October 24, 2012 at 4:04 pm

So the season has come to this? Sad, very sad!

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DesertKing says:

October 24, 2012 at 4:23 pm

I would suggest we set a deadline for a revolt, but as we have all seen, the word “deadline” means nothing to the NHL or the NHLPA other than something to break over our heads. No wonder idiots like Clowe, Doan, Smith, Bertuzzi and others get away with so much crap – Bettman and Fehr are the exmples they are supposed to follow. I agree with @puck73 – we got the Cup so forget about everything else and wait for Christmas and the Super Bowl.

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Kingsfanone Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:05 pm
@DesertKing,

I agree also. Well said, buddy!

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Mars Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:07 pm
@DesertKing, revolt?
How about just ousting buttman

The owners have their heads up their keisters.

Any 5 year could have settled this in a day.

This is not good business, it only makes the US look worse than it already does.
This is why I hate unions too.

I am just gettin angry and irrational.

If this was an owners only source of income, it would already be done.
Heck if they put their donation money into the lawers it would be done too!
The more non game new I hear just sickens me more.

It’s like listening to the beastie boys blabber on about Tibet
Shut up and do what you do best!

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:30 pm
@DesertKing, I’ve spoken to some Mayan friends they say Dec. 21st is the right day to turn your back on hobbies and sports interests.

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DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:41 pm
@luc20rules,

I can give those up, just not the nachos.

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:53 pm
@DesertKing, I wouldn’t ask you do give up nachos, that would be like separating Ying and Yang the cosmos would spin out of control.
Subby says:

October 24, 2012 at 4:36 pm

They are looking for someone to run Lakingsinsider and the Twitter..

Apply here: http://aegworldwide.teamworkonline.com/teamwork/r.cfm?i=49101

[Reply]
Subby Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
@Subby, wait I lied. Lakings.com lol my bad

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DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
@Subby,

they last me @ “Excellent written, verbal and communication skills.” Aint that wat the bloogers r 4?

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Subby Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 4:45 pm
@DesertKing, haha I got all exited until I read the requirements. Then I was just like blahhh

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DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
@Subby,

If they had just included the requirement “Must have cool Kings tattoos” then you would have been the top pick

Subby Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:35 pm
@DesertKing, awhh that was nice! I wanted to win that contest sooooo bad!!!!

I have 9 years of social networking marketing experience but i ain’t no writer (; I’d love to run the twitter however.

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
@Subby, With the number of times this team could win the cup the way DL built it. Maybe with no repeats of non players the person running the blog/twitter may get their name on the 4th Kings Championship Cup.
SLIM says:

October 24, 2012 at 4:52 pm

This place just doesn’t feel the same…
Change is somewhat necessary….But can suck!
I hope that we will see hockey this year…
It is sad..I’m not even checking the site like I used to…
Waiting to hear were back at it…
Not so sure at this time…
Hanging in …Trying to stay positive…
It’s like losing a good friend…

[Reply]
Mars Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
@SLIM, +1

This is the first time I peeked in today.
Might be the last time today too

I hav been moving and don’t have TV or Internet at home, not even missing it be ause there is no hockey right now

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Mars says:

October 24, 2012 at 4:57 pm

Wish the Ice Dogs and Gulls were still around.
Not sure if I want to roll up to Valencia from Torrance.
I had no prob going to LB or SD for a fun game.

When the heck will I ge to see my beloved Kings play?
This is going to be one cold dark winter.
The only sport I watch an the season seems to be slipping away.

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DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:04 pm
@Mars,

The Kings play 2 games tonight on FSW. I heard the games will have a play-off type atmosphere.

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Kingsfanone Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
@Mars,

I miss the Ice Dogs also, as I’m in San Pedro and it was a short drive to watch their games. I’m not going to Valencia.

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 5:09 pm
@Mars, I take it you have Friends and Family in SD, since Ontario Reign is closer than SD.
I will give you SD is a much nicer place to hang out then the inland empire. I here some of the insiders are planning a Reign Game some time in Nov, but we will see. Stay tuned.

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CB14 Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
@Mars, I’m in Torrance as well, and there’s no way I’m driving to Valencia to see a minor league hockey game.

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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 9:12 am
@CB14, Same here…Im in Redondo Beach myself but close enough.

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Russ says:

October 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm

Craptacular

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luc20rules says:

October 24, 2012 at 6:07 pm

Reading about a Commissioner with integrity. In the Bountygate Suspensions 4 NO players are appealing the suspensions. Goodenow handed out the suspensions therefore has recused himself from the appeals process to give the appeal verdict credibility. I am saying after all the non-sense that the NHL has pulled in the negotiations obsured openning offer, lockout deadline offer, hiring a PR firm to sculpt offers for PR, and contacting players without NHLPA notification. Perhaps it is time for Bettman to recuse himself from negotiations to foster some good faith toward future negotiations with the NHLPA?

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goldielocks Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
@luc20rules,

This is how NBA gets it done.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

The revenue split is phasing in but insignificant compare to NHLPA’s proposal. I think ‘make whole’ demand owners made is reasonable. PA needs to make a smaller phase-in to convince the NHL. To me, PA is the greedy one here.

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CB14 Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 7:47 pm
@goldielocks, I respectfully disagree. As stated in that article, the NBA lost at least 300 million dollars in each of its previous 3 seasons. So their players drop from 57% to 51% of revenues was justified. The NHL did not lose 300 million in each of the last 3 years. I have yet to read an article where it factually states how much the NHL made or lost, but most articles say that according to their sources the NHL made 100 million dollars last year. Making the owners proposal’s a bunch of BS.

Regarding the owners “make whole” proposal, it’s not the owners (who agreed to the contracts) who have to make the contracts “whole”. That money comes out of the players 50% of revenues. Making it not truely a 50-50 split.

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goldielocks Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 9:11 pm
@CB14,

You are misreading it. The basketball related revenue has been growing $3.3, $3.6, $3.8 billion (not as significant as NHL though). The owners were losing more than $300 million per year.

CB14 Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
@goldielocks, I don’t think I misread it. I realize that the NBA owners were losing $300 million per year. That’s why I don’t think it’s right that you are comparing the NBA’s CBA to the NHL’s proposed CBA. The NBA going from 57% in revenue down to 51% in revenue made sense because they were losing a significant amount of money. The NHL is not losing money, thus making the NHL’s proposed CBA a bunch of BS in my opinion. Why should the players take a pay cut when the league is making money?

luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
@goldielocks, Thanks, it was an interesting read, but the NHL & NBA do not have the same economical situation nor do they share the same labor/League history. The NHLPA is more united than the NBAPA, and the fact that 6 years ago an entire season was lost and the fans blamed the NHL for that. If an entire season was again lost it is hard to gauge the damage that would do to the NHL’s popularity.
I don’t know how carefully you have read the owners make whole provision. It only makes the players salary whole in the 1st year, the 2nd year is a 50% owners/47% players & 3% players whole in 1st year split. I do think both sides are wrong here, but the owners have to take ownership of how we got here and catch abit more flack in my opinion. That being said both sides need to check their egos at the door and negotiate in good faith. It really shouldn’t matter if the fans are backing one side or the other.

[Reply]
goldielocks Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 9:20 pm
@luc20rules,

I’m looking at this example as how they compromised and reached the agreement. As it stated, for ravenue split, it was owners’ win but for escrow, it was players’ win. The gap between owners and PA isn’t that big. So why can’t they just compromise a little? To me, NHL made a significant step forward while PA is making a small step.

CB14 Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:09 pm
@goldielocks, You’re buying right into the owners plan. “To me, NHL made a significant step forward while PA is making a small step.” That’s only because the owners first offer was OUTRAGEOUSLY LOW. Their first offer was 43% for the players, 57% for the owners. We’ve all known that what the owners wanted all along was a 50-50 split, which would be a 7% drop in HRR. Using their great minds (sarcasm) they came up with the idea of asking for double that, a 14% drop, and then they would look like saints when they compromised in the middle. Meanwhile the players are the ones who have made a significant step. They’ve gone from 57% down to 50% as long as their current contracts are honored. So in summary, the players have agreed to take less money, while the owners have agreed to less nothing.

goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 12:02 am
@CB14,

I was also the one who pointed out NHL’s first proposal was childish attempt. So obviously I didn’t buy it. Who did? I know all about their PR strategy but I also wrote about 50/50 ravenue split(I also meant making whole in shorter term) on this blog on Sep.15. NHL at least comes to that point, don’t they?

Are you Canadian? Cause exeption of the Rangers, only Canadian owners are making profit. Sadly American teams are losing money. While NHL’s primary target is American market(so-called southern strategy), they need to keep those teams in US in order to get national TV contract. I’ve never seen empty seats in NFL stadium yet their most profitable source is TV contracts not the attendance. But this doesn’t look like a good business at all. What if there is no one wants to be the owner of American hockey team? Well, I don’t want to lose money so I obviously don’t.

http://www.thehockeyfanatic.com/2012/01/nhl-team-worth-2011-2012/

I’m not the expert of global economy so I don’t know how Canadian doller
works in this situation. But again owners are asking help from players to keep hockey business somewhat profitable.

Listen to what Don fehr said about the deadline. He said it’s artificial. Really? I think Bettman’s gonna cancel another chunk of games and even winter classic to prove he’s not bluffing. The guy is making it worse and players are totally buying it.

goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 1:40 am
@CB14,

Oh, by the way, 15 teams out of 32 teams in NFL have more than $1 billion (The Cowboys $1.85 billion) in their team value. Now that’s the one good business I want to be an owner. I guess AEG is going after the better business.

CB14 Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 3:12 pm
@goldielocks, Born and raised in so cal. I’m not saying the league shouldn’t get a better revenue split, they should, but not at the cost of missed hockey games. I disagree with the notion that the league has budged more than the PA has when the league is losing absolutely nothing in the new CBA when compared to the old CBA. Meanwhile the players have agreed to long term pay cuts as long as their current contracts are fulfilled.

Regarding teams making money, the vast majority of NHL teams could break even or make a profit if they lowered their player salaries. Here is a list of teams players salaries from last season. : http://capgeek.com/archive/?year_id=2011 If you compare it to the list you linked to you’ll see that there are many teams who chose to lose money rather than have lower players salaries.

Anahiem lost 8.4 million but spent 59 million in player salaries when all they had to spend was 48 million. They chose to lose money, nobody forced them to spend that much.
Same goes for teams like Colombus, St. louis, Florida, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, New Jersey, Minnesota, Washington, Dallas, Pittsburgh, and your Los Angeles Kings.

goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 4:14 pm
@CB14,

And you wouldn’t think players are making too much money? Owners and GMs want to sign them with much cheaper $ but in reality, they must pay because if they don’t someone else will. Who’s taking advantage in that situation? Players and their agents. Tell me what advantage owners and GMs have. Now southern teams are struggling and a whole business operation in US might collapse. That is why owners are asking for help from players. Owners can withdraw from hockey business if they want. NHL is trying to prevent that happens. Sadly it is happening already. AEG wants to leave because football is much better business. Now who wants to be the owner of hockey team? Did LA Kings find the new owner?

CB14 Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
@goldielocks, Certainly players are making a large amount of money, but the amount they’re being paid is fair in relation to what the league makes. The owners also felt this way 7 years ago when they signed the previous CBA. Like I said, i’m fine with the players taking less money, but when games are lost because the NHL wants to stick it to the players like they did 7 years ago, I have a problem with that.

You mention southern teams struggling, whose idea was it to put teams there in the first place? Answer, Gary Bettman. And now he’s not allowing teams, like Phoenix, to move because that would prove he was wrong when he decided to expand into the southern US. It’s no surprise that 5 of the bottom 8 teams listed in the article you linked to are either expansion teams, or teams who relocated to the southern US. If they would contract 2 teams, Phoenix and Colombus, or allow them to move to Quebec and Hamilton, team values would increase because revenues would increase. Instead he remains the stubborn blank hole that he is and lets Phoenix lose 25 million dollars a year.

goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 6:14 pm
@CB14,

I’m just looking at this thing from various perspective. It’s true that NHL’s southern strategy is failing and it’s their fault. But the reason why southern teams are so important to them is for that they can attract more attentions from media like national and local TV in US. Think about the capacity of hockey arena. It’s more like up to 18,000 while NFL stadium has 50,000. Sure NHL holds more games but simply attendance of the arena doesn’t cut it. Like I said before NFL is making tons of money out of TV contract not the attendance of the game. If a hockey to be a real major sport and good business, they need more from TV contract. If Yotes moves to Canada, they are going to lose more money then they are losing now because of that reason. Compare the income they get from NBC and CBC. NBC doubles the amount CBC gives to NHL. I tell you this though. They will never relocate Yotes unless it’s for the American market. They are simply going to go after the expansion in the future. For the owners, 50/50 revenue split is their absolute middle ground. They are not going to accept any other options. I think Don Fehr needs to come back to the reality, and players should not follow him like mindless puppets. I quote.

Last sentence of quote from Fehr in @Real_ESPNLeBrun piece – “Maybe this is all part of an orchestrated approach.” No, really?! You think?

- Dennis Bernstein ‏from 4th period -

luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
@goldielocks, NHL made in profit 126.5 Mil last year. Fortunes article on NHL Teams. I did find it odd that the Kings despite their Championship had lost 2.0 mil last year. That makes me think the books were cooked to show a loss with CBA coming this summer, but also think of LA Live that is all AEG money with the Kings bringing 18,128 fans to the area 50 times last year.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 9:10 pm
@luc20rules, Those numbers are from 10-11, but they are still very usefull. According to that article the NHL made 21% more in 09-10 than they did in 10-11. Since they made 126 million in 10-11 that means they made 152 million in 09-10. By using the same percentage loss from year to year that would mean the NHL made 100 million last year, which is similar to what most articles i’ve read mention as the amount the NHL made.

luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:26 pm
@CB14, Ah, then the Kings Championship probably did make a profit. I just haven’t found the #s yet.
King Alex says:

October 24, 2012 at 7:30 pm

Wow! Jay Flats is gonna be there. THE JAY FLATS Kings fans!!! Almost like seeing Kopidor & Doty! I have come to the conclusion that the NHL is nothing more than a bush league operation & will never, ever eclipse the NBA, MLB, or the NFL. No other sport compares to the NHL on ice product but that is ruined by Bettman & all his cronies. If you see this post Bettman, just know you are a vile , disgusting, petty little man and you have alienated every single NHL fan during your tenure which souls have ended during the last lock out. You sir are what I refer to as a PUTZ!

That is all for now. Had to vent!

[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
@King Alex, +1

[Reply]
King Alex Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
@CB14, hard to believe its come to this after the year we had last year.

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luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
@King Alex, I knew this was coming since Fehr was hired by the Union over 2 years ago. He was hired to be the unflapable counter to Bettman’s petty tricks and ultimatums. I personally would like to see the current contracts honored especially after, so many teams signed players to 10+ year contracts that were only signed because owners felt Bettman could get them 15+% rollbacks on them.
I am in complete agreement with your initial post. In my opinion if the NHL came out with a 50/50 offer in July and they just punched out the details. Likely the NHLPA would have just demanded some changes and a make player salaries whole plan that eventually would have been worked out. We may have even enjoyed a Training Camp and Pre season starting in Sept. I would like to see Bettman take responsibility for his actions and recuse himself from negotiations or just flat out resign. For the love of hockey, please don’t let his season die.

King Alex Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 7:32 pm
@King Alex, should not souls…..damn spell check! Smart phone & dumb user syndrome.

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Subby says:

October 24, 2012 at 8:40 pm

So…. how bout that KHL :p
I’ve been watching videos on their site. It helps.

It’s really weird to see players where 99 over there especially an NHL player playing over there wearing 99

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King Alex says:

October 24, 2012 at 8:42 pm

@luc20rules, I am almost at the point I want to see the whole season just cancelled. IMO, screw them all this year. If they come back for the Winter Classic as game 1, I’m out this year. It will be my self imposed lockout. I will simply sell or give away whatever tickets that are left on my 10 game pack which is already 9 as I would have been there yesterday. I will not support a lockout shortened season. & if a cup is awarded in a lockout shortened season, that team did not earn it! Once a full season is scheduled, I will be there. These dirty you know what’s will not get a Happy New Year welcome back from me while giving me a shortened season.

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DesertKing says:

October 24, 2012 at 9:04 pm

Little Jimmy: Gwampa, have you always liked the Kings?
Gwampa, er Grampa: Well yes you little whippersnapper.
Little Jimmy: Have the Canucks always been a bad team?
Grampa: Well little fella, the Casucks used to be a good regular season team, but that all changed way back in 2012.
Little Jimmy: What happened Gwampa?
Grampa: Well, the Casucks had their hearts and backs broken by 2 guys and their minds broken by one guy.
Little Jimmy: Wow! Who broke their hearts and backs?
Grampa: That would be those jerseys you see hanging in Staples Center, you know, Brown and Quick. Brown broke their backs and Quick broke their hearts.
Little Jimmy: I remember seeing those videos! And who broke their brains?
Grampa: That would be their minds little guy, not their brains. That man would be Coach Sutter. He gave the Kings the ultimate game plan and they carried it out.
Little Jimmy: Oh yea, he is the guy who never looks happy and speaks that other language that I think they call Canadien.
Grampa: Yup, thats him. Ever since that play-off series, the Casucks have never recovered their mojo and have become known as “The Doormat of Canada” while the Kings have become “Canada’s Team” and that is the story of how the Kings ruined the Casucks forever. Now, its time to go to bed and dream of hoisting the Cup some day.
Little Jimmy: Ok Gwampa, but tomorrow night, will you tell me the story of the Kings first Cup?
Grampa: “Of course, because even though the Kings have won so many more Cups since then, despite the evil dark load known as Bettman, your grampa will always remember the Kings first Cup and that incredible 11th day of June, 2012.
Little Jimmy: Thanks Gwampa, I love the Kings.
Grampa: So do I Jimmy, so do I.

[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
@DesertKing, Nice story, but you had a gramatic error I believe you meant to type “evil dark hot steaming load”?

[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
@luc20rules,

Remember, Little Jimmy is still rather impressionable……..

[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
@DesertKing, So “load” was a sublimital typo? We both meant “lord”, right? LOL

DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
@luc20rules

Started as “lord,” but after I read the typo, I knew the hockey gods had guided me to use the right word the first time and I left it as his. The name totally fits Buttman the Troll

luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:33 pm
@DesertKing, One night you will tell how the Good King Westy pearces the walnut sized heart of the evil dark lord Bettman, and labor peace is know throughout the land. Please, Gwampa!

[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:39 pm
@luc20rules,

EVIL DARK LOAD! The only thing he is “lord” of is the Ryan Clowe Fan Club. Wait, I am hearing dark special ops helicopters approaching my house……

[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
October 24th, 2012 at 10:57 pm
@DesertKing, Hide in the safe room with the 1 yr supply of nachos. I’m sure you can just out wait them.

Kingsfanone Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 8:41 am
@DesertKing,

Something doth bubble in yonder dark pot, me thinketh…..
FiG17 says:

October 25, 2012 at 1:11 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f7ziOp3Nn1Q

[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 6:52 am
@FiG17,

Didn’t have a clue that the Kimgs were the Stanley Cup champions.

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Kingsfanone Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 8:38 am
@DesertKing,

WHAT? The Kings won the Cup?!?! Incredible this blog still disperses any breaking news….

[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 9:19 am
@Kingsfanone,

You are the President, you come to LA, and have no clue that they won the Cup. I guess he doesn’t find out until the White House visit happens.

luc20rules Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 9:52 pm
@FiG17, If Obama wanted the Lockout over he would have sent in Seal Team 6.

[Reply]
Kingstane9 says:

October 25, 2012 at 6:14 am

Valencia Flyers? LOL ….is there a team named Barcelona Devils in America too?

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FKA PakiFro Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 9:04 am
@Kingstane9,

They used to be called the Valencia Express. Good change of name if you ask me.

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DesertKing says:

October 25, 2012 at 9:20 am

I now know why Kings fans hate Buttman. Like the song says “No time for losers, because we are the champions, of the world!!”

[Reply]
Sebastian says:

October 25, 2012 at 10:22 am

The current “Kings game night experience” consists of turning all the lights off and kicking all the players off the ice. Who wants to pay to see that?

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Subby says:

October 25, 2012 at 10:50 am

It’s amazing what winning the cup can do.
Party city carries a whole set up for an LA Kings kids party.

Amazing how many people have stickers and and shirt and has everywhere.

Where was all this before!!?!

[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
October 25th, 2012 at 11:07 am
@Subby,

Boston. They were still wearing their gear while we were there this summer.

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