The NHL and the players’ association reportedly had a three-hour meeting today, during which proposals were exchanged. If no new collective-bargaining agreement is reached before Friday night, the players will be locked out and the start of training camp — Kings players have been scheduled to report by Monday morning — will almost certainly be delayed. Details about today’s meeting are still coming out, and it’s not known when the sides will talk again.
What does it mean for Kings players? In the short term, it arguably has the most impact on young players. The AHL, including the Kings-affiliated Manchester Monarchs, will have a season no matter what. The only question is, which players will be on the Monarchs’ roster? Under normal circumstances, here’s how things would go:
1. Many of the Kings’ junior-level and some AHL prospects would have reported to El Segundo this week for a rookie camp.
2. All players would be with the team for the start of on-ice workouts next Tuesday.
3. Incrementally, prospects would be assigned back to their junior teams, or to Manchester camp, throughout Kings training camp.
4. The Monarchs’ training camp would start on Sept. 27 in New Hampshire.
5. The Kings and Monarchs would both start their respective regular seasons on Oct. 12.
What has changed, or is likely to change, now? For one, the rookie camp has been canceled, and the likelihood of training camp starting on time is diminished by the day. Today, the NHL and the players’ association reached agreement on a one-time special waiver period, which will allow teams to have more flexibility in terms of how to deal with waiver-eligible players who are on two-way contracts. Take, for example, Jake Muzzin. Normally, if Muzzin came to training camp but then got assigned to Manchester, he would have to clear waivers. Then, if the Kings wanted to bring him back up at any point, he would also have to clear re-entry waivers. With today’s agreement, players such as Muzzin will still have to clear waivers to be assigned to the AHL, but will not have to go through re-entry waivers if the Kings decide to recall him shortly before the start of the season (whenever that may be). For the Kings, this applies to players such as Muzzin, Thomas Hickey, Andrew Campbell and Marc-Andre Cliche (I’m attempting to get the full list at this moment). By Friday afternoon, the Kings must decide whether to put them through waivers and (if they clear) have them eligible to start the season in Manchester. The Kings have not yet decided whether they will put any players on waivers. The positive is, they would be able to get playing time and could be easily recalled when the (probable) lockout ended. The negative is, they are at risk of being claimed. The alternative for the Kings is to not expose those prospects to waivers now, and give them a chance to make the team whenever NHL camp opens.
According to Dean Lombardi, the only three players with NHL experience who can be assigned to Manchester without the waiver process are Andrei Loktionov, Jordan Nolan and Slava Voynov. They would be eligible to start the season in Manchester, and would be able to return to the Kings whenever the lockout got resolved. They are the only NHL players who would not be exposed to some type of waivers, so there would be no risk in the Kings assigning them to the Monarchs.
As for AHL-eligible prospects — Tyler Toffoli, for example — they will start camp with the Monarchs on Sept. 27, assuming an NHL agreement hasn’t been reached before then. If players such as Loktionov, Nolan and Voynov are also in camp, there’s going to be quite a competition for spots on the Monarchs’ roster.
As for NHL veterans, if the season doesn’t start on time, they are free to either sign contracts to play in Europe, or to sit and wait. The Kings have no input as to what those players choose to do during the lockout.
So now, we wait and see. When I spoke to Lombardi today, he was getting on a plane bound for New York, to be part of league meetings there. Players, including several Kings, are also staging in New York in a show of solidarity. Hopefully, both sides realize that the fans don’t care, at all, about public flexing of the “we’re more unified” muscles. They just want a deal done.
Well they are talking…..
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Rich,
Not that I am asking you to, but will you speak directly with the players on Saturday IF there is a lock out?
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Rich Hammond Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
If I get the opportunity, individually, yes. Beyond that, they’re not going to be publicly available to talk as a group.
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I’m curious as to why for example Thomas Hickey would have to go through waivers to Manchester, as he wasn’t on the Kings roster at all this previous season?
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
@Henrik,
Yea. Same here. Potentially losing hickey and muzzin would really be a hit on the organizational depth at D.
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Rich Hammond Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Exposure to waivers isn’t just about NHL games played. It’s also about the length of time since a player signed his first professional contract.
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Michael J. Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
@Rich Hammond,
So, then Hickey and Muzzin will not be in Manchester this season(?).
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markisonfire Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
@Michael J., they could be. The Kings will have to expose them to waivers in order for them to play with Manchester, however. This means that any team could claim them if they chose to do so. A tricky situation!
My sister is in Brooklyn she should go to NY and wave a BIG flag WE WANT HOCKEY!
Go Kings GO!
Would it work no way, oh well, money its all about money, not us fans
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Deke'r Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
@Gail Web, …..que Pink Floyd…..
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The expiration of the CBA on Friday comes as no surprise to anyone. However, if Bettman and Fehr are unable to reach an agreement by then, it would indicate that neither is good at their job and would not justify their muti- million dollar salaries.They have had more than ample time to effectuate a new CBA and should have called in a mediator long ago. A pox on both of them
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KC23 Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
@Optomistic, If that were true Bettman would be working traffic court in Jersey years ago. He has been at the forefront of NHL lockouts several times before.
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Donald_S Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
@Optomistic,
Remember always that Bettman does not run the show alone. The owners are *thrilled* with the job he has done which is why he makes $8 million a year. He is a mouthpiece for owners. If you’re unhappy with Bettman, you’re really unhappy with Anschutz, Ilitch, Leipoldt, etc. They could have told Gary, “Look we want to limit contracts to 7 years, roll back the cap to $65 million for 3 years and drop the floor 20%, and we’ll live with the rest”, and an agreement would have already been signed. But they didn’t. They said “Roll back salaries 20% and get rid of free agency”. And that’s what Gary is trying to do for them. I’m not sure what is so annoying about Gary Bettman, but he is annoying.
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Osaka Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 3:57 pm
@Optomistic, Didn’t you see how the owners made out at the last CBA? Bettman does his job very well.
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Mik3ysfv Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 7:34 pm
@Optomistic, yes…..a pox on them!!
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There’s a practical and not just PR reason to go to NYC — to hear and discuss the most recent counter-offers among themselves.
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This is just getting to be really stupid. I refuse to spend a single dime on ANY NHL product until this gets resolved.If the Kings were smart, they would start working together FAST to get some sort of plan in place for all the fans for all the fans who are going to get jilted,at Frozen Fury. Fans flying in from Los Angeles, who have non refundable airfares, and fans from Denver also. A Vegas vacation is NEVER a bad thing, but come on Kings.
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I want to cry.
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Also, if their is a lockout, that means no current players will be at Luc’s tourney right?
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Rich Hammond Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:18 pm
Correct.
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so it seems as if Fehr is still pushing his apples while GB is selling oranges…
how long can this game of chicken last? Fehr is only making matters worse by consistently not negotiating what’s on the table but instead pushing a seperate agenda all together. I get what he wants to do, but that dialogue should’ve been opened months agao, not AFTER the NHL had made its initial proposal. Slaps in the face are never a good way to open nego’s and both sides did just that…
I’m starting to be swayed into indifference at this point. reportedly, the NHL has agreed to leave HRR as defined in the previous CBA, and even though the players would make a smaller percentage, since the revenues seem to be growing, wouldn’t that mean that a smaller percentage could still yield the same amounts? And why couldn’t the players be happy making the same amounts? I know it probable much more complex than that… if it’s a matter of principles, then I guess it’s time to stop hoping for a resoltion…
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
@Stuart, he’s done a great job actually. The league has backed off its redefining of HRR and he’s getting increased revenue sharing. If he gets that and gets the split to 50/50, he wins.
49% is pretty darn close.
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Stuart Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:03 pm
@FKA PakiFro, then his pushing an entirely new resstructure was just a ruse? if so, then yes, he is doing a great job. It’s pretty close to 50/50, so do you see an end in sight by Saturday?
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mrbrett7 Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
@Stuart, End in sight, no. However, Fehr was hired because the last guy got the players to drop their pants and take it in the you know what.
The owner’s won on virtually every single point last time (and I agreed with them too). The mess they are in now is ENTIRELY on the backs of each and every owner.
Michael J. Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
@Stuart,
The worst part of this whole thing is that JK will not be teaching his “Powerplay 101″ in Chicago until this thing is resolved!
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variable Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 4:17 pm
@Stuart,
with have seen this movie before…
on blu-ray…
on dvd…
on satellite…
on cable…
on whs…
on laser disc…
on beta
we’ve even heard the script read to us by oraon wells and peter thomas (famous voice over person)on the radio….
this is how millionaires fight with billionaires – time is their weapon….
remember…
time is a game only children play well…:)
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variable Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
@variable,
also on vhs…sorry…
pal, ntsc and secam, too…
soon coming to a mobile devices and tablets…(i bet you can’t wait…(!))
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Exospeed Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
@variable, how about netflix?
variable Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 8:57 pm
@EXOSPEED…
sure…them too…hulu, et. all
it still won’t get me to proofread my own work for typos like, “oraon wells” and “whs”…
orson, i’m sorry…
vhs…i’m not…(i hate to rewind)…
“Hopefully, both sides realize that the fans don’t care, at all, about public flexing of the “we’re more unified” muscles. They just want a deal done.” Nailed it!
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CBA -Can’t Believe Anyone
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c4sraser Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
@DesertKing, Certified BuSh Again
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Rich, is there any update on Quick’s recovery from surgery? I bet he won’t mind a short delay of 3 to 5 weeks for the season to start…just to have more time to recover.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
@LB, I’m sure he’d rather collect his salary while recovering
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Kings got their cup. That’s all I needed.
If the whole league goes to hell and misses substantial time, it might be the end of my fandom. Just tired of this crap.
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CBA – Cancel Bettman’s Authority
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To Bettman – Do your job by selling Coyotes to the sucker immediately or move it to Seattle. Otherwise, nobody takes your optimistic projection seriously.
To NHLPA – Think assembling 200+ players in NY puts pressure on NHL? Me no think so. Next time, try somethnig … sexy.
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Gary Bettman is about to have a hat trick named after him if this lockout happens.
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Michael J. Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:22 pm
@Drew Doughty’s Mustache,
Say what you will about Bettman, the guy is light years ahead of John Ziegler.
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i dont know if this is right or not but this would be the 3rd lock out for bettman? And if that is true how is he a good commissioner?
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
September 13th, 2012 at 5:32 am
@pr0cess, I agree. Putting a product on the table is step 1 of taking care of the game. We fans ultimately fund the game, and it’s a slap in the face when they don’t deliver the product. It doesn’t matter to me why the product isn’t there. It matters that they don’t care enough to adhere, collectively, to their published schedule.
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This has probably already been said but perhaps starting a little later will ameliorate the dreaded Stanley Cup hangover for the Kings since they’ll have more time to rest up from the long run they were on. Maybe this is a harbinger of good things, like a repeat.
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LB Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
@fourtunato,
I’m thinking the same thing. Also, more time for Quick to recover from back surgery.
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Exospeed Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 5:54 pm
@LB, The only good outcome of a lockout is the kings will have more time to recover from winning the cup, injurys, and partying in the off season. Too much time off could be a problem tho.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
September 13th, 2012 at 5:36 am
@fourtunato, Yeah, I’ve had that attitude. Nevertheless, it’s particularly irritating that it seems they’ve basically waited until this week to get anything done. I would have hoped that by now they were trying to hammer out details and at an “impasse” over a few points. The way things unfolded, it’s apparent both sides basically planned to deliver the product late–which means they’ll deliver it really late (like, Christmas?) IMO.
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Rich –
Here’s what I don’t understand. I have (for better or worse) read the CBA several times over and with a fine-tooth comb with regard to waivers. As far as I can tell, Hickey and Muzzin (who are of course no longer exempt from waivers) are on-loan to Manchester from the Kings. If you are on the active roster at the end of the season, you are on the active roster at the beginning of the next season. If not, not. Since Cliche, Campbell, Hickey and Muzzin were not on the active roster, they still aren’t. They’re on loan to Manchester.
I don’t see anything in the CBA that says the players are “re-set” to the active roster of the Kings.
I also assume that the answer ISN’T that the fact that Hickey and Muzzin were recalled as part of the Black Aces is the thing that makes them have to clear waivers now, because that would just be stupid management (is the experience of being around the team during the playoffs worth losing the player entirely in a couple of months?). I am assuming (perhaps foolishly) that the Black Aces don’t really “count” as being called-up with regard to their on-loan status for the same reason emergency call-ups in the playoffs don’t affect players’ on-loan status. (the emergency call-up thing is spelled out in the CBA; there’s nothing on the Black Aces.)
I assume that there’s something in my first paragraph that’s wrong, since people are talking about Hickey/Muzzin having to clear. But I don’t get it. I don’t see where this rule is written into the CBA.
Help. Help.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
September 13th, 2012 at 5:39 am
@Quisp, Thanks! Though basically ignorant of the CBA and “how things work,” I was thinking along those lines too. It’s all to confusing.
Of course, I’ve already read too much already, in my opinion. I think it’s sorta my duty as a disgruntled fan to ignore them until they put the product back on schedule, where it belongs.
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Watching Game #5 of the WCF in Phoenix. What a great game that was. Quick makes a huge save, then the Yotes get a PP goal, then the Kings come back with a shorty of a face off. Kings players hitting every Yote they can find whenever they can. Just an awesome game, the kind of game they should show to the idiot owners and NHLPA reps to remind them of how good NHL hockey is.
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Exospeed Reply:
September 12th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
@DesertKing, I watched game 3 before i left for work. man I hate the off season…
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NFLPA took the cut from 50% to 49%.
NBAPA took the cut from 57% to 49~51%.
NHLPA is not interested in other than current 57% share?
Come on …
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in the name of monty hall….let’s make a deal…(!)….
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Maybe someone has answered this before, but….if the players are placed on waivers and claimed, can they be pulled back (once) as they do in MLB ? Or are the waivers “irrevocable” ? Thanks…..
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“Hopefully, both sides realize that the fans don’t care, at all, about public flexing of the ‘we’re more unified’ muscles. They just want a deal done.”
Frankly, I “tuned in” to find out if Frozen Fury is off for sure (because if it’s on, I want to be there with some of the other fans (Jerry, Mike.) Other than that, I’ve decided that if ownership and the players can’t get their act together, I’m going to ignore them until a date is announced when they’re committed to playing hockey.
I’ve got no tolerance for this strike/lockout childishness. Both sides should have been at the table months ago, and they seem to have no regard for the fans. As a result, I think the proper response is to pretend they don’t exist. After all, they seem to act like we don’t exist.
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What options do we fans have? Could we bring a fans class action lawsuit? Could a group of well heeled fans put some money together and buy the NHL to force an on-time season?
I’m 80 years old and have been a Kings fan since their early days at the Inglewood Forum. I likely have 10 – 15 years of life left to live. Assuming the season gets cancelled, the league and players are depriving me of 1/15th of my possible enjoyment of hockey. Aren’t I and others in my situation entitled to compensation for our loss? How about the fans locking out the league or boycotting the buying of season tickets to show our resentment of the league’s self centered negotiations and lack of respect for the fans?
As I understand it, professional sports teams are granted exemption from some business requirements, such as anti-trust laws. In return, they should bear an obligation to their fans and restrictions on their ability to take away games in the interest of their greed. Why aren’t the league and players required to submit to arbitration if they can’t reach agreement before the regular scheduled start of the season?
Is there someone knowledgeable of the legal background, who can clarify this situation?
We loyal and devoted fans must have some rights, don’t we?
Bob Berman of West Hills, CA.
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Does this mean we are assured of seeing the “fat” versions of dd & penner when [and if] NHL camp opens.
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Donald Fehr is a buffoon, who doesn’t care about the game. Take you ass back to Baseball. If a team performs poorly and the seats are empty, do the players forfeit some of their money? NO! The owners take the hit and the players still get payed. Advice to the players, fire the Union hack and get on the ice.
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DISGUSTED….to see the players dig in, the hiring of Fuer. I appreciate their skills, their talent and their hard work, BUT can’t they seem to scrap by with 1-3 million a year.
Seriously, I’ve done pretty well over my working years and yet most of this team makes MORE in two years than I’ve made in a lifetime! Any player today who plays for 5 years or more and prudently invests is SET FOR LIFE.
So, my sympathies RUN SHORT……………….
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