Unlike his predecessor, Darryl Sutter doesn’t seem to put much stock in a goalie’s record against certain opponents. Jonathan Quick gets the start tonight against Nashville, even though Quick’s career numbers against the Predators — an 0-4-1 record, a 3.01 goals-against average and a .895 save percentage — are substantially worse than those of Jonathan Bernier (5-1-0, 2.00, .933). Terry Murray went the other way, and said he “absolutely’’ looked at a goalie’s history against certain teams. Murray regularly told the story of how Kirk McLean, then with Florida, regularly beat Philadelphia (click here for an item from last season). To be sure, the stats only carry the argument so far. Every team changes over the years, so the goalie isn’t facing the exact same team every time, but in this case, Bernier has seemed to hold something special on the Predators. Sutter was asked by Jim Fox today about his philosophy, in general, about playing certain goalies against certain teams, and didn’t share much.
SUTTER: “You clearly have a No. 1 goalie, right? If we’re, pretty much, in a Game 7 situation every night, what would your philosophy be? That would be a better way of putting it. It’s not coaching genius or anything. I’ve said that I’m comfortable with either guy, but if this is Game 7 tonight, who are you playing? Or go ask Barry (Trotz) who they’re playing. I don’t think records have much to do with anything. A lot of it is scheduling, and totally different teams, age of player, all that stuff.’’
Sutter was also asked, by a Nashville reporter, for his impressions of Quick since Sutter took over the Kings, and Sutter was highly complimentary…
SUTTER: “He reminds me of older guys I coached, even though he’s still a young guy. He reminds me a lot of (Ed) Belfour. He reminds me a lot of (Mike) Vernon, in terms of his compete. There’s that top group, and he’s real close to that top group right now.”
GKG!!! is it 5 yet?
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Forum Gold Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:19 pm
@Stuart, +1. 4 games between now and Sunday night. Kingdom Heaven. GO KINGS GO!!!
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Agreed. JQ is our guy.
Fire Leiweke
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Sebastian Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
@TheAcaciaStrain, so…Leiweke is the problem? what exactly does he do? is it his fault the Kings cant score? Kings are ranked 7th in the league for highest cap. he doesnt play and he doesnt build the team, he just tells the GM how much money he can spend.
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TheAcaciaStrain Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:08 pm
@Sebastian, i’ve explained exactly why I believe that tim should be fired, it was deleted by the comment moderator about 45 minutes after posting it, so reposting it would not be prudent. But I thoroughly believe that Tim has been doing a substantially below average job in “rebuilding” this team. And he and Lombardi should be fired, and I believe DL at least is on his last ropes, and Tim would fire him to save his own job.
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Christian T Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
@TheAcaciaStrain, Many of us think your are wrong. This team is built for multiple years of success. They are still one of the youngest. Still have good contracts from the core. Good offensive prospects in the system. A coach that players tend to like. Assets. Save this post and get back to me in 2 years if you think I am wrong. But I’m not. lol
SDGolfer Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
@TheAcaciaStrain, love all these guys here with their shtick.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
@TheAcaciaStrain,
I love how much attention the “fire lieweke” comment gets every time.
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Kimo Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
@FKA PakiFro,
Give Hammond a raise, let the fans coach the team. Problem solved.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:29 pm
@Kimo,
But who starts in Nashville tonight!??! Its game 7..
“click here for an item from last season”
Link is missing.
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Rich Hammond Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Thanks…
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7milforhickey Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
@Rich Hammond, it works now!
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KingsFletch Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
@Rich Hammond, Rich Hammond you’re the man! Any updates on Gagne’s availability/progress in his recovery? Thanks for your hard work
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Lake Forest Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
@KingsFletch, he just did a piece on Gagne not too long ago. Go back a week or so
KingsFletch Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 10:24 pm
@KingsFletch, I know he just did one lol i’ve just been wanting to hear more hoping that he can get back soon. I think him on that 2nd line instead of King would be unstoppable… not that King hasn’t been pretty darn good so far
…I’m with you DS….I’ve got confidence in JQ as well…..GO REIGN!!
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I am both excited and nervous. Man I love the fact we have something to play for still. I know we should have been a lock to make it, but I just remember all the bad years and would take this any day.
GKG!
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Bernier needs to play some more games. yes Quick is our #1 goalie but Bernier is a great goaltender and is very hot as of late.
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KingsGuy Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:37 pm
@LUCALACA, There should be an unwritten rule – If you get a SO, you get to start the next game no matter what…
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DiggerRocket Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
@KingsGuy, I agree. I thought Murray broke a cardinal sin when he didn’t start Quick after his 2 shutouts.
It provides an X-factor and confidence…and something to defend. I know it’s not quite the same in this situation, but I still agree.
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A sample size of 5 or 6 games is extremely small (especially for NHL goaltenders) to draw any sort of conclusions in this regard.
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dahack11 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:43 pm
@Rick Knickle, no it’s not….& besides we aren’t talking 5-6 games, we are talking 10-12 games when you add up BOTH goalies stats vs. one team.
We are in a battle for our playoff lives & it’s not like Bernier sucked his last time out. Also, Quick is NOT playing his sharpest hockey lately.
It’s a stupid move by Sutter & I hope we don’t miss the playoffs b/c of it.
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kingrussell Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
@dahack11, Agreed. This is one case where Terry Murray was right. Bernier has Nashville’s number,Nashville has Quick’s number.
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BobKnob Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
@kingrussell,
No, it’s just results oriented thinking. If black has hit 10 times in a row in roulette, is it more likely to come up black or red next time? It’s still 50/50. You’re just seeing the result of variance over a small sample. There’s so many other variables at play that you couldn’t possibly attribute it to just the goalies over a small sample with any hint of confidence. There’s still the play of each teams you have to take into account, and travel, lineup and a host of other considerations.
Belexes Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
@Rick Knickle,
Sample size is an unknown term to some of the stat-worshipers around here… Let’s see, what is JQ’s record after a Clippers’ win? Hmmm…
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PRMan Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:14 pm
@Belexes, Except that in this case, it seems to be related to Quick coming out to far and Bernier staying deeper in net against a team that likes to draw the goalie out and go backdoor.
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Duckbasher Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
@PRMan,
I agree. Hope this one doesn’t cost us the season.
Kenny44 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
@Rick Knickle, A good 5-6 game sample to start is why you, Rick Knickle, lasted as long as you did with the Kings
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Scot Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
@Rick Knickle,
Can you help me with my Statistics class? I’m getting a D.
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dMan Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:18 pm
@Scot, Statistics is quite simple; take some “factual” data (the larger the scope the better) and manipulate it until you get the result that supports whatever argument you are trying to make (or alternatively you’re being paid to make).
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Michael J. Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
@dMan,
Thats not stats, thats called research
dMan Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
@Michael J.
A rose by any other name…
DS is a genius if Quick wins tonight and is gonna get creamed on this blog if Quick loses
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Deke'r Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:33 pm
@PakiFan, ….so what’s new??…
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Jeff_R Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
@PakiFan, If the Kings win nobody will say much of anything. If the Kings lose everybody will go nuts and blame everybody including Heidi Androl for leaving. I can only imagine if the Kings were to go 82-0 people would still find stuff to complain about.
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Forum Gold Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
@Jeff_R, What did they do in the exibition games? GO KINGS GO!!!
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Forum Gold Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
@Forum Gold, Sorry, exhibition
dahack11 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
@Jeff_R, I understand your point Jeff R., but we are calling it ahead of time (as i did last week too). AND…..points are too critical right now to NOT play any advantage we have.
AND…..like I’ve been saying, it’s not like Eric Ersberg is the backup. We have a bonafide great goalie as our #2 guy who just happens to the # of a team (NASH) , that our #1 goalie, for whatever reason, struggles with.
Also, Bernier is playing well (as he always seems to do late in the season) & coming off a shutout…..while Quick is NOT playing his best right now & has historically tired late in a season.
There are just too many factors to ignore right now when we are fighting for our playoff lives.
It’s not like Sutter is sending Quick to the bench for the rest of the year.
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Osaka Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:47 pm
@dahack11, Look at the schedule, we have back to back games after one day off. This makes sense since he will go with Quick, Bernier, Quick in the 3 games. Do you want Bernier to start 2 of the next 3 when every game is a game 7?
McCheese Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
@PakiFan, pretty sure that DS isn’t reading the blog.
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Take no prisoners Quick! Just like DS, put your boot on the throat!
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I would still start Bernier. Sometimes the only thing that matters is luck and Bernier has had that luck in Nashville.
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Stuart Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
@Anjin, I guess DS doesn’t think there’s anything to the mental side of the game… that maybe JB is in the Preds heads and that alone gives the Kings an advantage? oh well…
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Save, Hrudey! Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 4:00 pm
@Stuart,
I highly doubt Nashville is trembling at the sight of Bernier.
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YoBro Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
@Save, Hrudey!, You can bet they’re smiling at the sight of Quick starting though! They beat him like a drum, and can’t beat Bernier. Oh well,,,,
Go Kings
Duckbasher Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
@Anjin, And he plays a very strong fundamental game. He’s never out of position and he doesn’t get deaked out of position. Lately i’ve noticed Quick swimming on his belly a lot. Not Good!
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i agree with DS. we need more offense
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Score 4+ goals tonight please!
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This doesn’t make any sense to me. Bernier needs to be playing more to keep Quick fresh. Quick let in a couple softies last game. Bernier is one of the best backups in the league and has been playing awesome of late. Bernier dominates Nashville. We’re playing Nashville. Therefore, start…
Quick?
Everything added up to playing Bernier tonight. We’ll see how it plays out…
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Roger Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
@puddle, I agree that is one of my worries, we make the playoffs and Quick is burned out by getting us here.
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DY Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 12:49 pm
@Roger, We have to MAKE the playoffs first. I agree with DS and his “game 7″ philosophy. Every game is indeed a game seven right now.
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Rocky Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
@DY, Quick will not get burned out. This is what goalies play for.
SSE6 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:33 pm
@DY, Every game from here on out is like game 7, so Quick starts all remaining game?
kingrussell Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
@puddle, You’re correct.
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Im ok either way, quick played well enough last time against the preds to get the win. If it was a back to back and you dont start Bernier (like last time) your an idiot. But we are rested and Quick is our number 1 in a must win. If we meet the preds in the playoffs, who plays?……Quick
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I know, JQ has an outstanding record on Tuesdays…..Or after eating BBQ……Or after he gets a haircut……or, ……
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Osaka Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
@Belexes, But what if he got out of the bed on the left side?
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#3 netminder Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
@Osaka, Then push the bed up against the wall on the left side..
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This is going to be tight low scoring battle. we need everyones complete focus in this game for sixty minutes. I think we will pull this one off.. Kings win 3-1
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Keep scoring 4 goals a game, and who is starting in goal won’t even be a topic.
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@Sebastian, Stop hating on Lieweke.. He is the best thing to happen to Kings hockey since Gretz
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“You clearly have a #1 goalie…” Yes, DS, you do. When it comes to Nashville, JB is #1, over a 12 game sample, over 2+ seasons.
“I don’t think records have much to do with anything.” What? Are you serious? Winning record = good, losing record = bad. If JQ lost 5 in a row (bite my tongue, stick a needle in my ye, spit to avoid evil), would he then be our #1 goalie? Records have everything to do with everything. That is why they are kept. That is why they are referred to. That is why they are studied. Records are systems of measurement to determine what works and what doesn’t. DS is starting to worry me by ignoring some basic principals of life and competitive sports.
Fire Trotz (so we can hire him)!
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Duckbasher Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:46 pm
@DesertKing, Or hire Billy Bean?
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DesertKing Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:55 pm
@Duckbasher,
Sure, Brad can sit next to Tom during the games.
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Dave's a Killer Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
@DesertKing,
Yeah! Fire Trotz. After all, he has used Rinne in 53 games this year and he’s going to burn him out. Really, I guess the burn-out logic only refers to Quick.
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
@DesertKing, I think it is a mistake not too play JB, the dude has got to be in the Preds heads, I like JB’s odds but we will see, come on Quicker prove DS right.
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Agree and disagree — If it actually were game 7 of course Quick would play. But it’s not game 7, no goalie has had to play 16 straight game 7s. So JB will have to play at least once or twice more. Given that he must be used at least once or twice picking the best spot for him to play makes perfect sense.
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Rich is a puppetmaster. He lures all the commenters in with their speculation while saving the real reason DS is playing Quick tonight for a later post like this one. It’s great entertainment. Well played Rich!
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Quick proved last week he shouldn’t be in net against Nashville. Quick is are #1 but this isn’t game 7, this is a game that gets you closer to being able to play a game 7 you go with your best options against certain teams and against Nashville Bernier has proven he is the guy you want in net. Stupid move by Sutter.
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I don’t buy it, Sutter. Bernier should have started this game. Period.
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Duckbasher Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 1:51 pm
@Marc Nathan,
I’m with you… Bernier has looked GREAT as of late and Quick has started doing a lot of that “LaBarbarra belly swim”. And we kno effective that is. If Nashville shoots high they will score on Quick.
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YoBro Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
@Duckbasher, Heck, if ANY team shoots high they beat Quick. Dude doesn’t seem to understand that if you come out of the crease and NOT stay big, the net gets even bigger. Oh, and Quick, will you please stop or deflect all those passes thru the blue? That’s your responsibility you know.
Go Kings
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Cruiznblue Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
@Marc Nathan,
So were telling JQ that we have no faith in him against some teams?…I dont buy that.
If the offense shows up tonight like they did last time for Bernier…Quick will seal the deal.
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Osaka Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
@Cruiznblue, Bingo!
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Osaka Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 3:32 pm
@Marc Nathan, Yeah! Sit the all-star for the backup.
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Jack Johnson hat trick against anyone but Kings. Maybe Bernier may be our saviour and play better that Quick
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Makes no sense. Lame argument.
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A comparative analysis of the Kings/Preds numbers shows that the Kings are actually going into this game with the numbers edge. I’m expecting a Kings win regardless of who’s in net. Quick will have to play a fairly poor game (by his standards) to cost us this one.
That said and in spite of the message it would send to start your no. 2 in a non-back-to-back situation, I would’ve started Bernier as well. Wouldn’t you know it would just be the Kings’ luck to hire a coach who is oblivious to facts.
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The bottom line is that Bernier is a positional goalie (and very calm) and Quick is an athletic goalie. However, as someone above observed, the Preds like to draw the goalie out and shoot behind him. Quick goes out, Bernier does not. This is such an important game and Sutter is allowing his ego dictate the goalie. Quick cannot do everything. Why have a backup goalie who would be No.1 on any other team and rarely use him. If Sutter made the wrong choice..woe is him!!!
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number 6 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:30 pm
@poe,
Well I’ll check out the goals then and see if you’re right. I did tend to think that because the Preds don’t have a huge skill set up front, it’s better to have someone who is in fact more positional (shots from the point, etc) and Bernier would be that person.
But DS knows best…. until he doesn’t know best.
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Save, Hrudey! Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
@poe,
Great nickname.
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So…we won’t be seeing the bottom six forwards for the rest of the season then either? I don’t get why he doesn’t want to play the #2 goalie when he also puts up great numbers and won a lot of games for the team last year during the stretch run. hockey is a team game and it takes all players plus call ups to win the SC. i hope nothing happens to 32 that would require 45 to become #1 in the playoffs when he hasn’t played much at all this year.
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number 6 Reply:
March 6th, 2012 at 2:31 pm
@yetiman_oc,
Not only that, but how long before that confidence from the shutout starts to wear off, he gives up an early goal due to being rusty, and poof….. au revoir confidence.
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Only reason I agree with DS on this is beacuse what if we end up playing Nashville in the playoffs (if we make it…)? Are we going to ride Bernier through the whole series because he has a better record? Remember JQ didn’t get a lot of goal support in those games either. JQ has to be the #1 guy…you dont want to give that impression that you have no faith in him against certain teams.
Might as well break JQs losing streak against the Predators tonight…since the scoring is showing some life these days…
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Start Quick,2-1(or lower)kinda gm;start Bernier,3-2(or higher)kinda gm.Rinne’s #’s are ordinary at best vs.LA so it shouldn’t matter.
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Sutter is a stupid stubborn goat.
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There’s that compete sneaking back in. Maybe TM knew what he was talking about…
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You guys don’t have much confidence in our all-star goalie, you would rather play a backup.
I tend to believe since Quick just lost against Nash he is motivated to pitch a shutout.
Since we have one day off after this and then back to back games doesn’t it make a lot of sense to play Quick. He is able to get Quick 2 starts out of the next 3. You know, since these games are important and all.
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Fail. Bernier owns the predators.
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…and when did “compete” become a noun again?
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