One of the final twists in tonight’s wild game came with 6:13 remaining in regulation, when Kings winger Kyle Clifford was given a match penalty for a hit on Phoenix’s Gilbert Brule. Clifford had only been out of the penalty box for 24 seconds after he served a tripping penalty. Brule was very slow to get up, after what appeared to be a hit to the head, and in a post-whistle scrum, Clifford tussled with Keith Yandle. Yandle got a two-minute roughing penalty, so the teams were 4-on-4 for two minutes and then the Coyotes got a three-minute power play, on which they scored to make it a 4-4 game. Afterward, the Kings were most upset with the way the penalties were called. Initially, matching two-minute penalties were on the scoreboard, but after an officials’ conference, the call was changed. That didn’t sit well with Dustin Brown or Darryl Sutter after the game.
BROWN: “It was originally a two(-minute penalty. I guess the linesman came over and said it was a five. It is what it is. The only issue — I haven’t seen it, maybe it was a five, maybe it wasn’t — but they had the two on the board for a minute, and then they come over and tell him? I think that stuff should happen immediately. I know there was a big pile-up, but they put the two-minute penalty up and put him in the box. Then the linesman came over after the fact. If he thought it was a five-minute major right away, he should have been over there right away.’’
SUTTER: “They said that after the whistle, then they have the right — all four of them — to talk about call or non-call. One of them called it. I’m not really sure which one. Obviously all four guys on the ice have… Dennis LaRue is the senior official, but my problem is, they weren’t calling nothing, and then (the Coyotes) jump on Cliffy and we get the match (penalty) and a game (misconduct) and they only get two (minutes). So it gives them a full three-minute advantage. That’s my problem with the call.”
Sutter was also asked about the probability that Clifford would have a disciplinary hearing tomorrow with league vice president Brendan Shanahan, because of the nature of his hit on Brule…
SUTTER: “I really don’t know how they work that. To me, it was not the right call.’’
Kings should be upset over their ridiculously sloppy play tonight.
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freezer flatten Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:28 pm
@apol21, thats exactly right.
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Goring 19 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:28 pm
@apol21, I feel the Kings had a 3-0 lead and went into the “we have the game won” mode and figured they didn’t have to show up for the next 40 minutes.
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KingsFan79 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:35 pm
@Goring 19, completely agree
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Jody Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:37 pm
@Goring 19, Like San Jose game 3. keep playing for the full 60 minutes.
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Peter90210 Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 9:27 am
@Goring 19, Can you blame them? It’s such a rare occurrence for them to have a three goal lead that they didn’t know how to hang in there. Need to practice what to do when they have more than one goal on the board.
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King John Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:31 pm
@apol21, Agree, Cliffy was more at fault than the refs. Kopi was more at fault on the third goal. Quicky was more at fault for trying to poke|check once again.
First period: I thought we were in sync, wow! Maybe the new line combos helped. But too good to be true. We revert to being a strange concoction of DL/TM/DS the rest of the game. Kind of out-of-sorts, with no “put the game away, we’re driving for the playoffs” instinct. Maybe a major trade will shake things up, because the feel of the team is off.
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xeropoint Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:34 pm
@apol21, THIS.
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Lars H Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:14 am
@apol21, They are. Have you seen the other post game comments?
This question was about the major called on Clifford. And that’s the question Sutter and Brown answered.
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How about we dont give a million turnovers instead and dont take a PENALTY AT ALL in the last 6 minutes? There are plenty more issues to talk about other than this penalty.
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Ron Reynolds Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:36 pm
@Kingsation8,
Exactly.
Man…it’s hard to know where to begin.
1. Obviously, we forgot how to play with a lead.
2. How many PP goals did we allow to the WORST PP team in the league? 3???
3. Kyle Clifford is not ready for prime time. I think his outstanding performance in last year’s playoffs actually hindered his opportunity to develop.
4. Brad Richardson has heart, but is otherwise useless.
5. We’re into the home stretch and don’t have any truly established lines.
6. Mike Richards hasn’t recovered his game following the concussion.
7. I think tonight’s performance demonstrated that Rick Nash is not going to be the answer.
8. It wasn’t Terry Murray’s fault.
9. Does anybody trust DL’s judgment at this point?
10. Jack Daniels on the rocks, please!
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Kingsation8 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:40 pm
@Ron Reynolds, Well said, oh and Jonathan Quick for the first time this whole season demonstrated that he is human, that one is big. His teammates obvs couldnt get it done for him tonight. Clifford in not mature enough, his decision-making is questionable still. I don’t know what else. I am still heated so its best if I dot type much.
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USHA#17 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:49 pm
@Ron Reynolds,
Murry’s usefulness/purpose ended after last season. Lombardi should have realized this and sought a new coach over the summer. Suter is a patch, not a fix.
Clifford is an excellent young player. Many teams would love to have him.
This team simply forgot how to play.
Doughty stopped playing after his goal…again. He directly or indirectly cost one, maybe two goals.
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:34 pm
@Ron Reynolds, Make it a double, hell just give me the whole bottle
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You the man rich! Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:03 am
@Roger, sorry man I already drank it all! Great 20 minute effort tonight guys! Thanks for wasting 2 hours of my life!
The play looked clean live. Brule just figured Clifford wasn’t going to hit him.
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King John Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:33 pm
@Mikey J., BTW Brule looks better than Fraser.
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Mikey J. Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:35 pm
@King John, Yeah, Fraser could have put his name up there. Just wide!
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Duncanz Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:05 pm
@King John, Who knew? They got him off waivers.
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everyone needs to breathe. We are in a playoff spot with a chance to get 2 more tomorrow. Thats all that matters at this point.
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Hockeysureshot Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:36 pm
@jefreyryan, Correct, sir!
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Kingsation8 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:41 pm
@jefreyryan, In the end this point will kill us, mark my word. Giving PHX 2 pts will hurt more. Just hope the Ducks dont kick us out, it sure as hell could happen.
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toemas_sandstrom Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:57 pm
@jefreyryan, Yeah, can’t wait until we lock up the 8th seed so Detroit can clobber us in 4 games. Can we just call the season a wash and start from scratch I. October?
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:36 pm
@jefreyryan, I hate to say this but here goes great we make the playoffs and win 2 or 3 games then we come back next yaer with the same GM, ame coach and the same results
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Jody Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:39 pm
@jefreyryan, well said! 2 points against the avs! GKG!
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Regardless if the officials botched how it was called, Clifford has no business checking a guy like that in a close game… showed no hockey sense. The whole team played scrambly, Quick was off (I think the other teams are on to his poke check attempts on the shootout and he’s dropped off considerably this year in those) but you’re protecting a 1-goal lead late in the 3rd… you CANT hit a guy like that. And he did follow thru with an elbow to the jaw, to boot.
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:37 pm
@bbb7, Dumb with a capital B
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You can get pissed if you want at the call coach and Brown but it still was an absolutely stupid penalty to take with a precarious lead at best. I still say that’s on Clifford.
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:51 pm
@Goring 19, Clifford was horrible, I think he had three penalties and two goals were scored because of it, I would sit him tomorrow and play Pencakes. What has happened to this team? God they fooled me again,up 3 nothing and 4 to 2. This team is mental and I mean no offense to mental people but come on, they made a statement in the first and then went absent.
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Goring 19 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:07 pm
@LVKINGS88, indeed. Clifford played a bonehead game tonight.
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Eggplant Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:27 am
@LVKINGS88, I agree, but it won’t happen because Sutter has this weird crush on Clifford.
On the bright side, the Kings did get a point out of this game and scored some goals. That’s at least an improvement on the 2 previous games.
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It’s getting to be really hard to watch this game after game
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DS is right… how can they go from nothing to five minutes? Like you get rewarded for the piling because it stops the game?
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james Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:35 pm
@LA_1968, this is exactly what i said when it happened, if the coyotes don’t react, no powerplay for pheonix, kings win. Coyotes react. 2min 4 v 4 then 3 min pp with clifford kicked out and prolly seeing a fine or suspension. rediculous, matt greene also took a few penalties, this team is losing my hope.
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Excuses. Pk sucked.
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I’m sorry to say, but Bob Miller jinxed us twice today. Specially on the last goal, to tie the game, when he stated that Kings haven’t allowed a shot yet on this major penalty…Right after he completed that thought, Phx tied the game.
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Harry Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:32 pm
But again, it wasn’t his fault we lost. The boys should of kept the lead when they were up 3-0.
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:38 pm
@Harry, Trade him !
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It was a clean hit. It was shoulder to chest. Clifford is tall guy & Brule is under 6′. How about keeping your head up instead of admiring your pass Brule.
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justmyopinion Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:51 am
@Chewy Rockey Horror,
Funny how I haven’t seen any comments about the hit being a replay of the hit on Richards, except that Brule didn’t go chirp at Clifford and get hit a second time with an elbow to the head. Of course that was ruled a clean hit and the second hit ignored. I’ll bet that isn’t how it goes this time. Hitting players on other teams results in fine and suspensions, hits on Kings players results in nothing.
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Vrbata is killing us.
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tacomakingsfan Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:43 pm
@Bonvivant,
And Doan…
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Ochoniko Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:58 pm
@tacomakingsfan, Doan’s been killing us for years
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To me, it was a totally unnecessary late hit by Clifford. You can finish the check but not with that violent manner at the crucial point of the game. It obviously cought refs attention. I can’t think of any words other than bonehead play. He cost us 2 goals today. Bench him.
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bbb7 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:36 pm
@goldielocks, The league might handle the benching for the team.
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Hockeysureshot Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:37 pm
@goldielocks, I totally agree! Clifford blew it tonight plain and simple. I said it at the time I wish he would of went from the box right to the bench.
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Lordstanley Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:43 pm
@goldielocks,
Actually neither ref made a call until after the play when the lines gave his two cents.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:00 pm
@goldielocks, If I were the coach I would tell Clifford to forget that call and change nothing in his game, that is what we want from him. I don’t think it was a penalty. At the most I could understand them calling a minor just because that is what they do with a big hit like that, but I still don’t see the penalty. 5 Minuets is a hose job. Clifford got called because he is much bigger than Creme. You say finish your check but not with a violent manor? Huh? It wasn’t, he just caught right, shoulder on chest. I’ve played the game for 35 years and that was never a bad play.
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goldielocks Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:11 pm
@Osaka,
Play was already made. The puck wasn’t there when Cliffy made a contact. If the guy still had the puck, he should hit him hard but it was a late hit. Other than interfere what purpose was on that hit? And if he wanted to interfere, no need for that force especially the league is looking for the hit that hurts the player. He had a time to slow down a bit but he didn’t.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:23 pm
@goldielocks, No need for the force!?!? This is hockey. That is why Clifford is on the team. I am not a homer when it comes to calls and I NEVER blame the refs, BUT that was a clean hit. If a guy already made a pass you can still hit him, it wasn’t that late. It is physically impossible to only hit a guy if he still has the puck, anyways that is not the game.
goldielocks Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:34 pm
@Osaka,
Penalty on Clifford was for illegal check to the head and he is suspended pending review by Shanahan. Shanny can say no further discipline is needed and that the refs’ call was correct or he can hold a hearing.
You can call it BS but Cliffy went low to high.
King Alex Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:41 pm
@goldielocks, If that was the case, why did no ref make the call until after the fact? We lost the game because we did not put the boot to the neck but that hit was clean!
Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:42 pm
@goldielocks, I think it was a clean hit but up until that point there was no momentum for either side. Just keep dumping the puck and play D Don’t piss the other team off and get em riled up.
goldielocks Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:55 pm
@King Alex,
I don’t know. It was from Elliott via twitter. I’m still looking for the official explanation. I’ll let you know when I find it.
King Alex Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:17 pm
@Osaka, I concur with you. That hit was not late. It was shoulder to chest & momentum carried the hit a little high. Not one official called anything until after the scrum & then they call a 5 minute major & toss Cliffy. There are no excuses for the loss but that call was complete BS & it was done well after the fact. Giving a major like that after the fact with the time remaining in the game completely interjected the refs into the outcome of this game. The hit was not late & it was not intential to the head. Now putting this call to the side, we never should have let those flea bitten mutts back into this game. Where oh where is our killer instinct?
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:25 pm
@King Alex, Oh I agree 100%. Refs didn’t cost us the game, we cost ourselves. I am just saying it was a bad call. Some guys were down on Clifford and that is BS if you are down on him for the hit. Nothing wrong with the hit.
King Alex Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:36 pm
@Osaka, We are on the same page bro. That hit was clean. It was not late & to give a major after the fact was complete BS. The ref’s interjected themselves into the outcome of this game. Any Hockey fan can not justify that call & the penalties given unless you are a Yotes fan.
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Kings Gal Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 8:04 am
@Osaka, well said! Asking Clifford stop hitting just turns him into Loktionov… a young player who makes quite a few costly turnovers in the defensive end while delivering very little on offense.
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james Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:37 pm
@goldielocks, your saying the same thing every other knucklehead said on here, clifford wasn’t the only problem..
matt greene took a few penalties, the whole team played wack after the 3-0 beating
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Osaka Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:03 am
@james, In Matt Greene’s defense both penalties he had to take. The first was after Richards rang it off the PHX net (post) and the puck shot out of the zone with a guy coming down on Greene all alone. The second Lokti was covering at the point and make a feeble attempt at the guy coming at him so again Greene was the only guy back.
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Clifford needs to sit at least one game I would rather have seen Penner in his place.( at least Penner does not make those mistakes) I don’t know if anyone has notice clifford has been weak on the boards. And that run was way after the puck left the man.
Quick is looking a little like he is running out of gas. Don’t be surprised if Berniertarts tomorrow.
I was already pissed at Clifford before the hit. Look on the bright side we are in a plaoff position. But how long will we hold on?
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bbb7 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:37 pm
@palmspringskingsfan, Yah I agree Clifford has been slipping lately and he has little offensive sense so he cant be taking dumb penalties. This was his worst game in a long time.
That said, he wasnt alone.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:41 pm
@palmspringskingsfan, He had a mixed game. He made a brilliant defensive play in the first period that kept Phoenix off the board, but he went on to make a lot of mistakes, NOT including the pretend call at the end. I completely reject the notion that Quick is running out of gas. The Kings played HORRIBLE defense tonight, and since they didn’t seem to care about giving up the lead, I guess he decided there wasn’t any point.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:01 pm
@palmspringskingsfan, Clifford isn’t slipping at all.
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Total BS call on Cliffy. Guys who say Clifford should have known better …. come on. He was simply finishing his check and Brule wastoo busy admiring his pass.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:01 pm
@soyokaze, +1
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DS does have everything but deals with the real reasons we lose….Complains about playing on trade day..compl;ains about calls…he should be more focus on hockey then stuff he has no control of…
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It’s the teams own damn fault they THOUGHT they won the game in the first period. Everything else, is a moot point.
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What did they finally pretend the call was? He hit him in the chest, against the boards, and his feet were on the ice. I’m tired of the NHL throwing games against Phoenix.
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Cortex949 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:41 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, Boarding with intent to injure… Only reason for the misconduct
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:47 pm
@Cortex949, He didn’t hit leave his feet and he didn’t hit him from behind. Totally fabricated.
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bbb7 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:41 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, I have to say to me Clifford followed thru pretty high with his elbow and that was the ultimate problem.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:46 pm
@bbb7, IN HIS CHEST.
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pesus Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:01 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
Im sick and tired of the league and the refs making calls only because an injury occurs. An injury CAN happen on a clean hit. Im surprised they didnt fine or suspend someone on the Hall warm up injury.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:26 am
Yup. Me too…and a dirty hit where an injury does NOT occur is just as much a problem. I’m sick of this problem Shanny has.
Mikey J. Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:01 pm
@bbb7, Unfortunately, Cliffy had tough game. Unlucky break for him on that hit.
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King Alex Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:48 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, What gets me with that bs call was Cliffy hit him clean, shoulder to chest & Cliffy did not board him. The hit did ride up a little high after the contact was made. There was no intention to hit his head nor board him & the call comes after the Yotes initiate the retalitation scrum. Total BS call & I would do that same hit every time I had the chance!
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:28 am
@King Alex, I think at some point people have to realize that hits don’t always end the way they start, and sometimes you can’t do any better. The only thing Cliffy could have done that would have been much differently would have been to skate by and not make the hit, which is not what you’re taught to do.
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Just unacceptable. If they don’t start a scrum the play goes on and nobody gets called for anything. But then the play is stopped by pho and they go back in time to call a game changing call? What was the official time of the penalty? The time the hit was or 10 seconds later when the play sopped?? By my count if games were called correctly we would have 71 points now
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g smith86 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:45 pm
@Cortex949, no doubt the refs have been horrible this year… and when I blamed Shanny for it, people jumped all over me, but his dept. is in charge of player safety and it has definitely affected the way refs handle situations just like these…How about handing out delay of game penalties for Yotes as well as roughing?
The other side of the coin is that Cliffy shouldn’t have hit him, nor should he or any other of the Kings taken such bad penalties…all game long…you can bitch about the 5 min and game misconduct call, but you have to admit that Cliffy hit him late…and he has to back off in that situation
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Duncanz Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:27 pm
@g smith86, I think I was one of the ones that replied when you mentioned that, but don’t consider it being jumped on.
If anything, I was defending Shanny’s position. Too many head injuries were occurring and, in this day and age, hockey must protect its reputation and deal with incidents as actively as it can.
Shanny, in his first year, is doing a great job and, pen or no pen on Cliffy, players will slowly reconsition themselves and choose their hits better, even if it takes a couple of seasons.
Something HAD to be done for the good of the NHL. This is just another necessary transition phase for hockey.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:29 pm
@Duncanz, Let me ‘recondition’ that post..
Buster Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:00 pm
@Cortex949, If EVERY game was called correctly (ESPECIALLY IN TORONTO), we’d have 80 points right now.
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The NHL has incentive for the Coyotes to win. They are trying to get more fans in Phoenix and try to sell the team. The NHL has no incentive for the Kings to win they sell out and will continue regardless of whether the Kings make the playoffs. The NHL has informed the officating to give teams like Calgary Phoenix Dallas and Colorado the breaks and be tight with the Kings. There should be an investigation. This is ridiculous.
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MattM Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 6:33 am
@jackyboy,
You have some inside proof that you’re willing to share or is this just a baseless accusation?
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On the bright side, the two rookies played okay; they didnt look out of place and they actually both understand the idea of scoring is to try to work the puck to the FRONT of the net. Keep them up and sit or trade or waive Lewis and Fraser.
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goldielocks Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:48 pm
@bbb7,
They were more than ok to me compare to Richardson, Clifford, Lewis, Lokti, and Frager.
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:44 pm
@bbb7, Great point I like King
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I hope that Shanny takes into consideration that Brule stood there admiring his pass and ignored KC bearing down on him…. And honestly, what the hell does the NHL expect in a contact sport? I guess like the NFL, just go after the legs..
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Kenny44 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:49 pm
@Mike, Can’t do that either, even if you’re a wee man like Boston’s Marchand. He’s got two notable “clipping” penalties for going low on hits lately.
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colo king fan Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:34 pm
@Mike,
+1 * 10 ^1000000
Brule got what he got.. you’re an NHL player don’t watch your pass and you won’t get pasted. That said, KFC had an absolutely awful game. Couple horrid turnovers, bad penalties, and I’m not particularly fond of his game along the boards lately.. he needs a healthy scratch tomorrow IMO.
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Thanks to the Kings lack of effort and discipline tonight, I will not be sleeping much and wake up tomorrow with a headache and in a bad mood which will last most of the day…This is how you get a hangover without drinking,…just watch the Kings lose games they should win on a nightly basis
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Jon Quick is running out of gas. Thanx alot Sutter. You are burning Quick out. Bernier should always be starting on back to back games. Instead you are pulling your best Mike Keenan impression and wearing him out like Keenan did to Grant Fuhr.
Also, this just in, Lombardi is still entrenched in 1995. Too bad for him they changed the rule in 2005. Just resign Dean and go away, this season has been very dissapoiting considering the expectations.
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Eldoret Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:50 pm
@puck73, A lot of those expectations are BECAUSE of the moves DL made. I think it’s more an issue with the team itself. People keep saying they’re great on paper, but they’re crap on the ice. Maybe it’s a chemistry thing, but what more does a GM have to go on?
I guess the one thing I disagree with him on is how he picks people. He seems to want people that have “character.” In theory it sounds like a good thing, but all I see is a bunch of grown men who can’t battle back from a goal down. Not the kind of character you want on a team I’d say…
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:47 pm
@Eldoret, Yeah the GREAT GM moves like Trading Smythe for an injured ploayer, Drafting Hickey 4th overall, Replacing Murray with his clone, Trading a #1 for Penner
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neil Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:55 pm
@puck73, thats the truth…evidence is overwhelming!!!!!
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:30 am
@puck73, I honestly don’t think that plays into it at all. Look at his last several games. He didn’t have a good night. The defense had a crappy night. It is what it is, not a trend of any kind.
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Black Knight Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 10:20 am
@puck73, Good take on Quick, I have also noticed he’s spending a lot more time on his knees the last 10-12 games, making himself small in the crease and reverting to a bit of his old overly agressive style. he’s playing in desperation mode a bit too much… but I feel for him, our lack of scoring is domiinating his psyche. It is time to sit him for a game and get Bernier in there. Quickie should watch a little film and discover the holes he is showing opponents. He’ll be fine and ready for his next game.
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I’m pissed at Cliffy, not for the hit, but for being surrounded by 3 Coyotes and passing into the slot in the 2nd Period.
The forgotten man here, in poor play, is one Matt Greene. Two goals are on him.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:44 pm
@IceGuy, He had a mixed game, but everyone seemed to miss that Dewey had a chance to clear and didn’t. I don’t know what he was thinking.
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Absolutely brutal call on Cliffie, 2 mins max. Also Sutter what is with JJ taking a shootout with you best player watching?? I don’t get having JJ take the last shot over Kopi? Hmmmmm???
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tacomakingsfan Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:47 pm
@Timbo from Canada,
Kopi hasn’t been exactly stellar in the shoot out lately.
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Timbo from Canada Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:55 pm
@tacomakingsfan, And JJ has? He’s 0-4 in SOs this year???
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tacomakingsfan Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:00 pm
@Timbo from Canada,
Never said that… Either way with a blown lead like that the Kings deserved to lose.
The one place I question Sutter tonight is he didn’t call time out at the stoppage during the major penalty. I was SCREAMING for a time out, and sure enough, right away….
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bbb7 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:46 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, He was saving it for an important time in the game…oh…wait…
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jack Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:23 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, i am teling you, the coaches are phoning it in…you can see the lack of passion behind the bench…I see absolutely no influence on the game once it starts…
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:31 am
@jack, I’m not sure what they were doing, but I doubt they were phoning it in. Frankly, I don’t think Sutter has seen enough of these meltdowns before. We have, so we’re screaming “TIME OUT” at the TV. We know what can go wrong will go wrong.
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And one more forgotten man – Kopi.
How did that backdoor goal look from your position standing on the ice?
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g smith86 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:49 pm
@IceGuy, yea…and Willie chased the man with the puck too…that was on Willie as much as Kopi
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g smith86 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:53 pm
@IceGuy, you had three Kings on one side of the ice with one Dman (i think it was DD) and Willie both chasing the puck carrier, except Willie should have protected his side of the ice…Kopi I thought read the play correctly… He had to hang back and probably thought Willie had Vrbata
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I apologize for this on multiple levels (including if anyone else beat me to it), but in the old days all that hit would mean is an awful pun opportunity for Bob Miller:
I guess you could say Clifford really “creamed Brule”
Ha!
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FabKings Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:10 pm
@Kenny44, Good one!
Go KINGS Go!!!
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Crap excuse from a crap captain. Blame it on the officials, that’ll change the fact that this team hasn’t been able to score a late big goal in over 2 years, yet they give up a late big goal on what seems like a nightly basis. Is crap a bad word? I’ll stop using crap if it is.
I remember earlier this year (I think) Justin Williams said that the team needed to battle back in a game where they were trailing, just so they know that they can do it. 50 some games later, they still haven’t been able to do it. Issue? I think so…
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11 or 3 Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:50 pm
@Eldoret, i can’t remember the last time they scored a late goal to tie or win a game. is my memory that is going??? where is adam deadmarsh?
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Eldoret Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:54 pm
@11 or 3, I’ve said it a few times on these boards. The last time I remember was over 2 seasons ago when Doughty got on late on a PP. I remember it because I almost peed my pants when it happened, and when they interviewed TM after the game he said something along the lines of “If you knew the play we drew up, you’d be mad at him.” Apparently they drew up a play for Stoll to shoot from the right point (and I think we all now how that would of turned out…HIGH AND WIDE!), but instead Doughty too the shot from the middle of the ice.
Pretty pathetic IMO.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:52 pm
@Eldoret, They’d ALMOST thrown the game, and the officials threw it for them. ‘nuf said
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:53 pm
@Eldoret, Justin Williams did have the goal that made it 4-2….
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Eldoret Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:55 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?
I said late big goal, i.e. last few minutes of play to either tie the game or get the go ahead goal. I wasn’t referring to a goal in the second period of the game.
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Matt S Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:47 pm
@Eldoret, Doughty’s game winner with like no time on the clock like 3 weeks ago?
Eldoret Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 2:40 am
@Matt S,
You’re right! I guess it didn’t stick out in my mind because I was in class during the game, and didn’t get to see it. Regardless, that makes twice in 2 years. Does it really change my point at all?
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:34 am
@Eldoret, It was a pretty big goal. I think if you calm down the hyperbole will go away.
It’s easy to get mad at the officials, but the Kings blew a huge lead. Whose fault is that?
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Harry Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:50 pm
@jonsey,
The refs!
/sarcasm
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ShuttleBut Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 9:50 pm
@jonsey, it’s Rob Cowie’s fault
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colo king fan Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:37 pm
@jonsey,
Both, IMO. The Kings should have never let themselves get into a position where one bad call beats you.. that being said, that call was absolute crap.. matching minors to him and yandle – fine. But 5? and in the manner he got 5? Ridiculous.
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Blame the Kings for choking that three goal lead, but I totally blame the refs for allowing that terrible call to allow PHX to tie the game
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What really happen was the Coyotes played a bad first period so it made the Kings look like they were playing a good game. All they did was make the Kings look good but as you can see the last 2 periods and OT showed that the Kings werent playing a good game after all.
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Hopefully Clifford will get a 10-game suspension. He’s useless.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:34 am
@beano, LOLz
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King Cobra Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:46 am
@beano, last night he was, most nights lately. Does not score, bad turnovers and does not fight anymore really……
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JQ had an off night…that’s been a couple now in the past week or so…I think he needs a rest…that Tying goal was a back breaker…and he still goes with the poke check in the shootout…it really wasn’t working all night
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bmova Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:15 pm
@g smith86, When in the past week did JQ have an off night? If I’m not mistaken, he only let 2 goals in the previous 2 games.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:35 am
@bmova, Yeah really. Had to call BS on a similar comment. Quick has one bad game (not the only one!) and suddenly all the hyperbole.
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clifford needs to sit next game, its not 100% his fault we lost, but he took 2 bad penalties, and caused a turn over that lead to one of their goals
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:03 pm
@kopitaristheman, The hit was clean, just unlucky. Sitting a kid for doing his job would be a big mistake.
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bmova Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:14 pm
@kopitaristheman, The hit wasn’t a penalty to begin with. The referee was right there as it happened. Brule goes down, the Coyotes react, and THEN the officials decide to give him 5. Last I checked only if a ref can’t see a play, or misses a play, do linesmen step in. Here, the entire incident happened right in front of the back referee.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:16 pm
@bmova, Linesman can only step in if it is a major.
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Buster Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:07 pm
@Osaka,
That ID 10 T error of a human being was out of position to make the right call.
King Cobra Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:47 am
@kopitaristheman, 70% of the blame is on Kyle Clifford for this loss. Horrible play and bone head moves.
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It’s called hockey… It’s a contact sport
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In over 35 years I spent playing hockey, Clifford’s hit was clean. Can’t blame the kid, I would want him to do it again.
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:50 pm
@Osaka, I agree the hit was clean but at that time of the game dont get PHX pissed just keep dumping the puck and get on the flight to Denver
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It was originally NO penalty!
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jacky boy Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:17 pm
@Gordon, Yes but remember the nhl hates the kings and loves the Coyotes
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Buster Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:08 pm
@Gordon,
and should have REMAINED no penalty.
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It was originally no penalty until the refs figured out they could screw the Kings AGAIN
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What a bunch of wimps you all are. Cliffy did what has been the norm for years in the NHL. It was a legit hit and the penalty was called only after all four zebras got together to determine that the new reality in the NHL must prevail. And that is that no one can get hurt anymore as a result of playing rough. Don Cherry is right. This game is being takem over by a wimpish european style of play. The league doesn’t want to be responsible for the fallout from the multiple concussions that occur, and the insurance companies are mandating it.
Long live Marty McSorley
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No I know how the Stars fans felt, when the kings came back from a 4-1 deficit, and won in OT.
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Dean, Make the Trade already!!!
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“They said that after the whistle, then they have the right — all four of them — to talk about call or non-call.”
Here’s what the NHL rule book has to say about that.
“The Linesman must report upon completion of play, any circumstances pertaining to:
(i) Major penalties
(ii) Match penalties
(iii) Misconduct penalties
(iv) Game Misconduct penalties
(v) Abuse of Officials
(vi) Physical Abuse of Officials
(vii) Unsportsmanlike Conduct
(viii) Double-minor penalty when it is apparent that an injury has resulted from a high-stick that has gone undetected by the Referees”
Sequence of events:
- Brule makes a pass then stands there watching it.
- Clifford hits him shoulder to chest.
- Brule hits the glass, then the ice.
- Neither Referee raises his hand to signal a penalty.
- Play continues.
- Coyote players jump on Clifford (not carrying or near the puck). Instigation?
- Neither Referee raises his hand to signal a penalty.
- Pile of players on the ice, whistle, game stops.
- Clifford, covered on the ice by a Linesman, is finally allowed to get to his feet.
- Clifford is ushered to Penalty Box, and a 2 minute minor appears on the scoreboard. Head Referee MUST HAVE assessed a 2 min minor on Clifford, else why was the penalty time on the board?
- After Clifford is assessed his minor, all four on ice officials exercise their Right to “discuss” Clifford’s penalty.
- By Rule, any additional information or opinion regarding a a penalty MUST be made at completion of play, not after a penalty is posted on the scoreboard.
- As no Referee raised a hand to signal a penalty on the Brule hit, the only penalty that could be questioned or discussed would be Clifford’s “roughing” scrum with Yandle.
- So, in fact, Clifford was assessed a Major Penalty, with Intent to Injure YANDLE, not Brule.
That’s by the NHL Rule Book.
Maybe Shanny can explain THAT.
By the way, I’m not blaming the Refs for the Kings loss. They did that to themselves.
However, if Shannahan is going to publicly make the players play by the Rules, he ought to start making the Officials do the same.
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Kissmyblarneystones Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:33 pm
@IceGuy,
Well Done!!
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Duncanz Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:49 pm
@IceGuy, According to the rule as you lay it out, if the Linesman considers any such sanction necessary, he is to report that to the Referees after the play. This is what was done.
Regardless of the subjectivity of the call, or the clunkiness of two minutes being changed to five on the board, it appears that procedure was followed.
Any hockey Refs here to weigh in on this one?
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IceGuy Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:07 pm
@Duncanz,
The question really is how far back in game history can you discuss a “call or non-call”.
A minute ago?
Two?
Something that happened back in the last Period?
The Rule is clear, “The Linesman must report upon completion of play …”
It’s not subjective.
I would assume it’s like dropping the puck – the game goes on from that point forward.
If Clifford’s hit was indeed a penalty, it should have been called on the ice in real time. It wasn’t.
And how exactly do you get inside a player’s head to determine his Intent to Injure when neither man responsible to make that assessment (the two Refs) chose to call Clifford’s hit on Brule a penalty in the first place?
So we are left with what I said above.
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Duncanz Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:30 pm
@IceGuy, Just to say that the Linesman can’t whistle the play, so if he does see anything he has to wait til play stops to consult on the play anyway.
The ‘completion of play’ would refer to anytime while play was dead and before the game restarts.
I’m not arguing the merit of the final decision which is a separate consideration from the protocol of the on-ice officials.
The penalty has been debated enough tonight already and, frankly, could have gone either way.
King Alex Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:02 pm
@IceGuy, Perfect summation. Right on the money bro!!!
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Cynic Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 11:55 pm
@IceGuy, 10 outta 10. Nice summation.
Exactly. The game up to that point was what it was. BOTH teams played sloppy and the Kings were ahead. THE REFEREES CALL is what gave Phoenix the advantage and ended up determining the game. According to the rules (Which no longer matter apparantly) this was an ILLEGAL Penalty. How about some disciplinary action on the ref who made that call?
Of COURSE it won’t happen. The RIGHT things to do never seem to happen as much as the wrong things anymore in hockey.
Now bad calls happen. I have always fully accepted that. What I do NOT accept are calls, especially in tight games, that become the determining factor in a game’s outcome. This season ALONE has been chock FULL of incidents. Either the Refs need new training, or the rulebook is becoming too big to enforce completely.
Something MUST change. When refs are making calls just for the sake of making them, second guessing the original calls (Or non-calls) on the ice, it becomes a DANGEROUS precedent to the integrity of the game.
Livid doesn’t even begin to describe how I feel about this. An exciting, even though sloppy game was RUINED by a referee’s call….AGAIN!
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Reffs found a way to give 2 points present to Coyotes.Shame on them.
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Jody Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:48 pm
@Sam T., We could’ve won the shootout. But I must say, our shootout lineups aren’t very reliable this year. Last year was solid: Hanzus, Stoll the Machine, and Kopitar/Brown, but this year, nobody has consistently been able to score in the shootout.
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Roger Reply:
February 21st, 2012 at 10:51 pm
@Jody, Does it show how bad we are when we use Dmen instead of fowards in the shootout.
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Jody Reply:
February 23rd, 2012 at 2:52 pm
@Roger, Not necessarily. dmen can be good in the shootout…like letang.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:38 am
@Jody, Quick hasn’t been that great in the shootout this season, either.
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Jody Reply:
February 23rd, 2012 at 3:08 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, The only player whos been good in the shootout is Williams (3 for 3) and he didn’t shoot against the Coyotes.
It’s always the same thing that happens. The boys get ahead in the game and then they get comfortable. That’s what makes me uncomfortable. They let the game slip away because they’re not aggressive enough. It’s frustrating. I especially hate when they lose to the “Dogs” because I live in Phoenix!!!!!
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Is Clifford entirely stupid? Nursing a 4-3 lead, he gets out of the penalty box late in the 3rd period and immediately gets a huge penalty? He ought to be scratched for a week.It’s not as if it happened in the heat of battle. He stood there looking at Brule, then took a long skate up ice to blast him into the boards. To what purpose? To lose the game? You just knew when Clifford did it that the Kings were going to lose. Phoenix is too skilled and determined to pass up that gift.And what happened to the Kings’ shhotout? It stinks this year along with everything else. They used to be able to sneak out with a shhotoutwin after blowing a lead. Now they seem lucky to get one point.
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zulov Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 1:33 am
@Royal Throne, The answer is yes, Clifford is entirely stupid.
That was a violent, dangerous hit – late, and he deserved the 5 minutes. I know it was weird how the call was made, but it was still the right call.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:41 am
@Royal Throne, DS disagrees, and so do I. He played with intensity. Now, if it’s true that he got the major and the misconduct for a head-butt after the fact, that’s different…and then it’s also true that the referees should have communicated that, but they knew they officiated a crappy game and they just wanted it over.
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I have ripped players, coaches & our GM this year & IMO, deservedly so, but I can’t believe any Kings fan is calling out Cliffy for that CLEAN HIT. Before anyone jumps on me, this game should have been put away by the Kings well before this call, it wasn’t because we are the Kings, but that call with the time remaining in the 3rd was a perfect example of ref’s interjecting themselves into the outcome of a game. If Cliffy did not make that hit, how many of you insiders who think it was the right call would still e calling Cliffy out for ot finishing his hits? BS call all the way!
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Cynic Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 12:05 am
@King Alex, I’m 100% with you on this one, in fact I’m somewhat disgusted. All of us here have spoken MULTIPLE times about clean and dirty hits and I’ve always felt the majority of the time, the Insiders always Seemed to get it right, even if it favored the other team.
To call Cliffy out on this one is downright ludicrous. Follow through is NOT a primary determining factor in hits to the head. Initial contact IS. Initial contact was square in the chest. Brule simply didn’t see it coming. C’MON EVERYONE! Have you ever been hit not knowing it was coming? What do you do? YOU FLINCH! Flinching in surprise during a violent hit, you can cause more damage to yourself in shock alone with the reaction than the hit itself. No doubt the hands rode up, but if Brule sees it coming, those hands stay down because Brule doesn’t lean back, he braces for the hit.
If they would have left it 2:00-2:00, 4 on 4, I would have been fine with it because nobody gaines an advantage, but to give a major to Clifford after Yandle jumps him with no instigator or misconduct?!?!
Pitiful…and don’t tell me it’s because of the speed of the game, they CONFERRED on these penalties. Plenty of time to get it right and they chose not to.
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Osaka Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 4:50 am
@King Alex, Look at the box score, the penalty was not for the hit. Cliffords penalties it says drawn by Yandle, that was after the hit.
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Clifford proved that he is a stupid goon.
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zulov Reply:
February 22nd, 2012 at 1:34 am
@zulov, He cost us the game with his sloppy cough up in our own zone for goal #3, and the absolutely dumb hit on Brule.
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Clean hit by Clifford. BS call by the zebras. That’s what happens when u admire your pass Brule, u deserve getting pasted. No way Cliffie gets suspended.
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That was a BS call for sure. Should have been a roughing call at worst. The refs gave that game to the Coyotes I guess the NHL needs to prop up the Coyotes for a potential buyer. What garbage!!!
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Still haven’t watched a replay, however what I remember seeing doesn’t sit well with me also. What I remember seeing was 1 ref look up at the jumbotron and then motion to another to look. I didn’t know video review was allowed for an in game penalty call. I would love to see some vid to know if I’m right or wrong on this.
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