Here’s how the Kings’ forwards are lined up this morning…
Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Brown-Stoll-Hunter
Penner-Loktionov-Moreau
Clifford-Fraser-Westgarth
The Kings are practicing in the purple and gold garb, and to no surprise, neither Willie Mitchell nor Mike Richards is skating. More updates to come…
agree with the lines for now but switch Moreau for Richardson!
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Melissa Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:03 am
@Doug in Sacramento, Hunter for Richardson
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#unclewillyson Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@Melissa, agree Richardson > hunter easily…. And Loktionov needs to be on 2nd pp unit
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jonsey Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@#unclewillyson, What has Richardson done to prove that? I don’t get it. The guy produces very little.
Resedakingsfan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Melissa, Agreed – Richardson for Hunter, and Lewis for Moreau.
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puddle Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:04 am
@Doug in Sacramento, Switch out Moreau for a sack of potatoes and Hunter for a traffic cone and now we’re really talking!
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bringbackbutchgoring Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@puddle, Bahahahahahahahaha good one
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Kings4life Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@Doug in Sacramento, Lokti for Lewis? What about that swap?
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@Kings4life, would agree – what has Loki really brought to the table that Lewis or Richie don’t and he has played in a consistent positon and fairly consistent line. Even gets PP that they don’t get. That must be TM confidence boosting strategy for the guys that are sitting.
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Andrew: The second coming Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
@Northern Fan, Skill.
Hockey & Rocky Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Doug in Sacramento, So Penner gets his first goal as a RW and now he’s put down to 3rd LW?
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
@Hockey & Rocky, I don’t believe Penner has ever played RW.
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DEH Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@KC23, Edmonton and the D@@ks. RW is actually his natural position. See Rookie card
http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Cards/Hockey/2005-06/Hot_Prospects/101/Dustin_Penner_RC/3210927/GRADED/BGS/9.5
RogerRabbit Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
@Hockey & Rocky, So what difference does it make where Penner plays if Doughty didn;t hit him with the puck he wouldn’t have been a factor in the goal anyways. Penner was just an innocent bystander that got credited with a goal by proxity.
RR
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Andrew: The second coming Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
@RogerRabbit, Oh come on you darn well know he tipped that one purpose.. Haters gonna hate.
Kenny44 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
@RogerRabbit, oh please. Not only did he tip it on purpose he pulled it back toward the net. That’s a product of countless hours of practicing various deflection techniques and a skillful play.
Alex Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
@Doug in Sacramento, Totally disagree with this line. You know i was one of the guys still on TM side. After this line up i will say he is really not getting it what needs to be done offensively.
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Paul G Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
@Doug in Sacramento, Lewis for Moreau
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rogiesbackup Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
@Doug in Sacramento, totally agree, especially with the moreau / Richardson comment.
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Didn’t get to watch the game on Saturday. Did Westy play the full game on the 3rd line? How did he do in that role overall?
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brian spain Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:07 am
@LomitaKingsFan, I don’t think Westgarth played, if he did he didn’t play much at all. Richardson played. I don’t remember seeing him on the ice.
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wavesinair Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:09 am
@LomitaKingsFan,
He did quite well in the press box. Hunter was on the 3rd line.
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Harry Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@LomitaKingsFan,
He was a late scratch, and was replaced by Hunter just as wavesinair indicated!
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wavesinair Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:32 am
@Harry,
He actually wasn’t a late scratch. Hunter was on that line from the start. Westy never even got a shift in practice on that line so that dog didn’t hunt.
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@LomitaKingsFan, Westgarth didn’t play. Can’t believe I’m saying this, but I missed him in there. He has been doing well.
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Didn’t get to watch the game on Saturday. Did Westy play the full game on the 3rd line? How did he do in that role overall?
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Glad to see Clifford playing with Westgarth again. To me, the kid plays better with Westgarth on his off wing.
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tornado12 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@puck73, agreed. If see anymore runs at our star players (DD last game) I hope those 2 can bring some accountability
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
@puck73, Absolutely. I wouldn’t mind seeing Loktionov with these two. I know that seems weird, but I got a feeling it might work.
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Why is Penner, who got a goal last game finally, on the third line when Hunter who can’t even hit an open net get rewarded with second line duty? Hunter shoudn’t even be on this team I would rather see Richardson out there.
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
@Canadian King, Good question, but I’m thinking it’s a balance thing … and I’m not saying I agree with it. Penner looked pretty good to me last game.
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Osaka Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@Canadian King, As coach Murray stated one of the reasons for these lines was to put Brown on the LW, would you rather Brown play LW on the 3rd line instead of Penner?
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DEH Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@Osaka, no, I would rather Penner play right wing.
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i’m sorry, playing Moreau/Westgarth over Richardson/Lewis when the team hasn’t scored more than 2 goals in 5 games is asinine.
Penner-Lokti-RIchardson
Clifford-Fraser-Lewis
those lines are much better. now you have Lokti between two guys with no speed in Penner and Moreau and you have three guys with little speed on the 4th line in Clifford-Fraser-Westgarth.
it’s like TM doesn’t want to score more than 2 goals. maybe he’s decided if the Kings can’t win 1-0 or 2-1 he doesn’t want to win at all?
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brian spain Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:08 am
@Dave, It doesn’t matter who plays with Lokti, he sucks. That guy has been as worthless as Hunter.
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jason Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:24 am
@Dave, if lewis and richardson were productive that would make sense but heres what we have so far
lewis 19 games, 0 goals, 1 assist, 0 +/-
richardson 19 games, 0 goals, 1 assist, -5 +/-
vs
westgarth 11 games, 1 goal, 1 assist, 0 +/-
moreau 26 games, 1 goals, 3 assist, -2 +/-
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
@jason, but Lewie and Richie move from line to line and position to position. Again I would ask how these two go from carrying the team in the playoffs to not producing and being in TMs dog-house. How many points does Hunter or Stolly have that haven’t been PP points?? TM has lost it with this team – hope he is gone soon
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brymaster1 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:52 am
@Dave, Morueau and Westgarth both have more goals then Richardson and Lewis… Talk about embarrassing
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tantrum4 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
@Dave,
How exactly will Richardson and Lewis with their 0 goals combined improve the scoring??
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Puckn-A Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@Dave, Richardson & Lewis couldn’t score if they were shooting at a soccer goal. I know we really miss their combined 2 assissts.
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Dave Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
@Dave, People – look at their histories. So you are saying Williams hasn’t scored in almost 20 games so he should sit? you need to look at skill set and their history.
Kevin Westgarth has one goal – ever. One.
Moreau isn’t a scorer and if you watch the games he doesn’t create many chances. He plays a good grinding game when he is not taking penalties, but so does Clifford and Westgarth and Fraser and Hunter. Why do we need five grinders in the lineup?
Lewis was a first round pick – he has a history of scoring all through his career. Sure, he hasn’t scored yet this year, but he’s been playing on the 4th line when he did play. It’s a poor usage of talent.
Richardson has a history of scoring and played very, very well in the playoffs in the top-6.
Dressing guys that are not offensively gifted and sitting those that are when your team is not scoring goals is insane, no matter if Lewis and Richardson haven’t produced yet. And Lewis and Richardson sure aren’t going to produce from the press box.
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Puckn-A Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@Dave, What history book are you reading? Richardson & Lewis have never been known for their scoring. They are fast skaters who can do ok on the pk. Richardson got beat up by Teemu, and should not be allowed back on any teams heavy line. There are probably 10 guys in Manchester that could fill his role.
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Dave Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
@Puckn-A, Lewis scored 20 in Manchester and scored 29 in his one year of juniors. he has that background and was drafted in the first round because of it.
i agree Richardson isn’t a big goal scorer, but again, neither are Moreau/Westgarth. so it comes down to do you dress another guy that is just like all the other bottom 6 players, or do you add some speed to your lineup with a guy that has a history on the Kings of playing top-6 if you need him there.
i am fine with Hunter in the lineup – i understand his role and he has some offensive upside to his game. but do you really need Moreau out there when you already have Hunter, Clifford, Fraser and Westgarth? what role does he fill that those guys don’t?
and if you need the enforcer from time to time, i get that as well. but to sit both Richardson and Lewis makes no sense.
and if you haven’t noticed, since the Kings have scored 2 or less goals in five straight, so the “heavy” lineup isn’t exactly lighting up the scoreboard.
Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Puckn-A, Were you on Richie’s bandwagon during last year’s play-offs?? Don’t break a leg jumping on and off the wagon!!
Puckn-A Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@Puckn-A, I have never been a fan of Richardson , I did say that Lewis had a shot @ 10- 15 goals during the summer but I highly doubt that now. I wouldn’t mind Lewis getting starts, just think Richardson is career AHL material.
KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@Dave, Richardson hasn’t impressed me at all, either has Hunter. Moreau seems to be coming around slowly. I do miss Lewis though.
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Attention Insiders….Several of the insiders will be meeting at the wild wing statue at 6:15 PM on Tuesday night before the game that starts at 7. For those of you who are going, but have never met anybody on the site, feel free to come over and chat for a few minutes before everyone goes inside.
Looking forward to seeing some of you again, and some for the first time. LGK !
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California Royalty Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:28 am
@puck73, I’m gonna be a bit late. Is 6:30 okay?
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puck73 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@California Royalty, Air Canada, first class…..ahhhhhhh
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How many times has Rich posted an update with the heading “new lines?”
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Tyler, I stopped counting after 1000, “To infinity and beyond”.
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Wilmonde Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Tyler, How many times have game recaps been titled with “Kings edged out by xxx”?
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ike Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@Tyler, Considering the injures and lack of chemistry this shouldn’t be surprising.
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@Tyler, wished I had a dollar for everytime that was the heading. I’d be a rich man now. But when your bag of tricks is as empty as TM’s, that’s all you could do is switch ‘em up.
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Poor Loktionov, absolutely 0 finish on his wings. Although I do like seeing brown back on the LW, and Kopi has the skill he deseves in his wings. Would like to see Richardson or Lewis in there somewhere though.
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Perro Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:17 am
@Niko, Penner played real well Saturday. Even without the goal he was very noticable. Seemed odd to me that he plays good and then gets demoted to the third, but hopefully this will balance things out.
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Niko Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
@Perro, Right on, I missed most of the game Saturday so it’s good to hear he played well!
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Michael J. Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@Niko,
He was one of the better players for the Kings.
kingfisher Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@Niko, played well the only thing he did was stand in front of the net and re direct a shot from doughty……….he was behind his line the whole game.i was there too.he is still very lazy and needs to skate harder if at all possible……..just because he gets lucky on a tip hes still the same slug.get rid of him he is bad kharma and drags any line down he is on………lombardi needs to take care of this.we have at least 4 guys in manchester that can skate circles around penner.hes pathetic
Puckn-A Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
@Niko, You start your comment with Lokti having 0 finish on his wing and your solution is Richardson & Lewis ??? You realize they have 0 goals and a reputation for not being able to finnish?
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40YearKingsFan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@Puckn-A, Richardson and Lewis have both had a load of scoring opportunities this year and neither have closed the deal once. IMO both are turnover machines and prone to making mistakes that give the other teams quality chances. I understand they’re fast and good skaters but I don’t understand the attraction beyond that. They’re both busy, but I don’t think either bring a lot to the table productivity-wise. And Richardson is a -5! That’s the worst on the team.
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Niko Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Puckn-A, Sorry if my post was unclear, but my solution for Lokti is not Lewis and Richardson. These are bottom 6, energy guys who I think would be more effective than skating all of Hunter, Moreau, Fraser AND Westgarth, who slow down the transition game.
IMO Lokti has more playmaking ability than Stoll, so I would like to see him at C2 with either Brown, Gagne or Williams on one of his wings. Obviously there is a huge hole without Richards, and I don’t expect Lewis or Richardson to boost the scoring that much, but Hunter has missed 3 yawning nets and he is now on the second line. Not sure what the answer is, I wouldn’t mind seeing:
Gagne-Kopitar-Penner
Brown-Loktionov-Williams
Richardson-Stoll-Lewis
Clifford-Fraser-Westgarth/Moreau/Hunter
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@Niko, I need somebody to explain to me why Loki is top 6. He needs to go back to the AHL.
DEH Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
@Northern Fan, Because Richards is injured and no one else is doing the job. But I agree, keep stoll on the second line until Richards comes back. Without Richards, he’s our best faceoff guy and given more ice time expect his numbers to go up.
Why does Hunter continue to play on any of the top lines? He should absolutely be scratched. He’s no different than Moreau. How many slow big bodies do you need in the line up at one time?
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number 6 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@Oz67,
too many evidently
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PENNER IS ON FIRE!!! lol (sarcasm), had to mention that so i dont get grilled)
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One good thing is seeing Martini out there in full drills. He’s getting mixed in with the pairs so who knows…
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Murray’s man-crush on Hunter is almost Cloutiesque.
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puck73 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:22 am
@simonsez, Nothing will ever beat Barry Melrose’s love affair with Daryl “The Tin Man” Sydor. And benching Alex Zhitnik….Because that made alot of sense LMAO
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Williams doesn’t desreve to be in the 1st line with his poor performance recently. Penns finally scored a goal and put him on the 3rd line? TM obviously needs CAT scan on his head.
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Jsauce23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@goldielocks, And his stupid penalties. He has frolov fever right now
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bringbackbutchgoring Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:54 am
@goldielocks, Williams is not going to break out of his slump playing on the third line. He has scored throughout his career, so he deserves another chance at 1st line. We have few enough legitimate scoring threats, we need to have them on our first line, not third.
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goldielocks Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring,
And you think Penns produce more in the 3rd line?
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, He’s not going to break out of his slump playing for TM. Maybe there is a common denominator here for all of the bad performances on this team. My guess, coach who doesn’t know how to get the best out of his players.
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tornado12 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@goldielocks, an MRI would show more detail, particularly of the posterior fossa…
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@tornado12, not a lot of detail in empty space
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@goldielocks, Agreed, Williams has played some of his worst hockey since he came back early from his major injury. Lately he has been getting his chances though, just not finishing.
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Osaka Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@goldielocks, Nobody on the team besides Richards and Brown deserve to be on the first line right now, but these are the players we have.
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I am a TM supporter, but for the life of me I don’t see how the energy of Richardson is in the press box when it is his skating and intensity is what is needed right now. I must be missing something.
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puck73 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:20 am
@goes to eleven, Skates hard, but like the rest of the team cant finish…thats why he sits.
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winger23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:41 am
@puck73, but hunter or moreau is? Richardson without a doubt is a better choice on the 2nd or 3rd wing.
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@puck73, well if people who don’t finish had to sit, we wouldn’t be able to put a full team on the ice. We need a significant shake-up here
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KFII Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:29 am
@goes to eleven, I’ve got to agree with you. Richardson may not be the finisher we all want to see, but his energy and focus are 100% out there. Maybe if Hunter started scoring some goals…
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Pesus Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:56 am
@goes to eleven,
When you question his tactics and decesions you are one step closer to joining lynch mob. Seems like we are growing larger day by day.
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nykingfan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
@goes to eleven,
I didn’t see enough from Richardson on Saturday to warrant him being in the lineup over anyone else.
To me he was like Huner and the rest…invisible!
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@goes to eleven, Richardson shows a ton of energy … but not much else unfortunately. I think the press box is what he has earned of late … along with Hunter.
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Osaka Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@goes to eleven, Everyone will think one guy plays over another, that is totally normal, but how can you be upset when we don’t play a guy who has ZERO goals and ONE assist in 19 games. Oh he also has the team worst -5 going for him. He is a bottom six guy but he is suppose to bring skating and some scoring and he is not scoring, what does he bring? He doesn’t have a physical presence. He doesn’t kill penalties like Moreau or Fraser. He is too small to go in front of the net like Hunter can. He can’t hit anyone or fight.
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Why is Westgarth still playing. Especially with Richards and Mitchell out. Lewis is good on defense and has a slightly higher level of offensive capability than Westgarth. More importantly, Lewis kills penalties. If we had Lewis out on PKs than that is less energy wasted on the bigger players trying to kill the penalties like Kopitar, Brown, and Gagne. Those three will have more energy throughout the rest of the game. Westgarth is a waste of space at the moment.
Also, it is time to fire Murray and bring in Randy Carlyle. Our offense is obviously still not working under Murray and it should definitely not be that way. Creating offense on a consistent basis with Murray has always been an issue. Time to bring in a coach that has truly won.
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Osaka Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@Todd, Westgarth sucks so much he has twice the points Lewis has.
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For those who haven’t signed up to get HBO, here’s what you’re missing: http://www.hbo.com/#/sports/24-7-flyers-rangers-road-to-the-nhl-winter-classic/video/winter-classic
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Hunter is a 4th line winger for crist sake! C’mon Dean. You are the only one who can stop this madness and release us from an agony!
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@goldielocks, if he doesn’t do something soon, the fans will start to talk with their feet
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Like I was telling Stuart on the last thread…
@Stuart, Do you realize that those 5 guys (DD, Stoll, Penner, Lokti, Williams) ONLY have 8 goals total and we’re one third thru the season? They’re on pace for 24 GOALS total! That needs to be 5×10 = 50 goals by the end of the year. That’s 26 more goals from now til then. We have 56 games left. That’s about half a goal per game more than what they’re doing now.
If we keep our defense (yes and TM), and we raise our goals for by half a goal a game our goal differential would be stellar.
With our defensive “honest” style we are never going to be Vancouver or Chicago with an average of 3 goals per game. Right now we got 2.3 so let’s take it to 2.8 the rest of the way.
These 5 guys with 8 goals so far are our problem. TM needs to prop them up. So do the leaders on our team. Those 5 also need start making it happen.
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Deirdre Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:34 am
@LA_1968,
Agree we need much more input from the underachievers esp on 5 x 5. From Jewels From the Crown today, 34 of the teams goals are Even STrength, of those Mike Richards leads the team with 8, which is 24% roughly. That’s pitiful that isn’t more even coverage there.
I wish Richardson was playing, and hopefully now that Penner has the first one, more will come. Park yourself near the net and let Loki work his magic SToll has played fairly well (and I loved that he stuck up for Richards in the Panters game) and he and Brown usually play good together.
When you add in the key assists MR got in Oct (mostly those primaries on GWG’s) and that 7 of his 9 G’s in november were Game tying or Game winning, you have to wonder if Richards had not been traded for, would the Kings be hovering near the Ducks in the standings ?
And factor in the fact he’s been shutting downm a lot of top lines as well…
Hopefully he’ll only be out for a couple more weeks (as a blogger on another site reported Tim Leiweke saying Richards would be back before xmas).
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PP Anybody? Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@LA_1968, So to sum up, your answer is just score more, correct? Any thoughts as to how to go about this or why said players haven’t done as you say?
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LA_1968 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@PP Anybody?, There are a few types of players on my 5 list. Young unproven (DD, Lokti) who need to figure it out still. The other 3 are vets who are slumping which almost always has to do with over-thinking to the point of guessing and hesitation. The coaches could help them with advice similar to this:
DD: Get the shots thru, if they’re too close go around them if you’re sure.
Penner: Hockey is your life. Stay in shape and leave it all on the ice. Like last game.
Williams: Probably our best time and space aware player, keep finding space between the dots and some will go in.
Lokti: If you’re unsure be more selfish. Error on the inside of the target (don’t miss net)
Stoll: Very hardworking. I really don’t know what to improve here. If he keeps working he’ll get the goals.
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@LA_1968, Excellent take. I think we’ll start getting much more production from DD, Penner and Williams. Dought we’ll get much from Stoll, I really think he is one of our biggest issues because of how much ice time he gets and how little he gives us in return.
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@LA_1968, And they all get tons of time on the PP
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1. New week
2. New Lines
3. Same objective
Repeat steps 1-2 and continue.
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Hipcheck Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:39 am
@California Royalty, and the post game canned responses of “the level of compete, shot mentality, we need to move our feet.”
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fsd1 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:42 am
@Hipcheck, Listen to any coach who loses in the post game presser
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Forum Gold Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@Hipcheck, And the we did not play for 60 minutes but will “learn” from this! GO KINGS GO!!!
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PP Anybody? Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@California Royalty,
1. Repeat scoring one or 2 goals.
2. Win some, lose some.
Repeat steps 1-2 and continue.
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Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@California Royalty, SAME OUTCOME
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So losing patience… as the bank account dwindles, and the amount of money spent on parking, and concessions bloats… Moreau, Hunter… BORING… Lewis, Richardson… ALSO BORING, but younger.
Can’t wait for that “We’re #8″ chant…
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fsd1 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:43 am
@Marc Nathan, How was the bank account the 6 years we didn’t make the playoffs?
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I hope they lose. I am sorry, I hate to say that, but I do. I would like a coaching change this year.
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Deke'r Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@StillKingly, ….so do you cheer for the opposition when you go to the games?….
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
@StillKingly, Sorry, that is where I draw the line.
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Lewie and Richie have gotten a bunch of looks with Lokti in the middle during certain drills… they actually looked good together.
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Cynic Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:57 am
@wavesinair, I am SO for that 3rd line:
Richardson-Loktionov-Lewis
Man I hope Terry Murray pulls his head out of Hunter’s backside and ices that line. He’d make a lot of fans feel very relieved.
Pop Penner ON THE RIGHT with Brown and Stoll and bench Moreau & Hunter. Done.
Nahhhhhh, makes too much sense.
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Ari Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@Cynic, Agree 100%
That line needs to start ASAP!
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Perro Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@Cynic, Have we tried Penner on the right?
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TradedForAPick Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Perro,
Wouldn’t hurt to try. he was playing great in his first game back. seeing how all TM wants him to do his crash the net, I doubt it would make a difference
letswinthecup2012 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@Cynic,
with you 100%
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Kings x Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@Cynic, I really like this line. All young small and fast.
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CB14 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
@Cynic, I’ve been saying the same thing! DO IT TERRY!
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@wavesinair, Richardson hasn’t impressed me one bit this year. All energy and no results.
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TradedForAPick Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@KC23,
beats no energy and one assist of results
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Not to sound like a basher or a hater but TM simply does not know how to create more offense. Thus we see the bi weekly line juggling in hopes that it will be the golden ticket. The Truth is-this system is a round hole being fit with a square peg for the roster. If we couldnt score with Richards in the line up-how are we going to score without him in the line up using the same system? How many games do we need to see before calling out the obvious?
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winger23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@Hipcheck, but that’s the beauty of this wonderful systemw you can plug useless players in without missing a beat! /sarcasm
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Any lineup that has hunter and moreau as the 2nd and 3rd kind wingers is going to be in trouble. I thought this team was deep? Why not use a kid on the 9 game rule. They could not be any worse than these two.
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A little center ice meeting between Penner and Murray resulted in Penner doing solo conditional and/or stick handling drills with the puck… could be that TM was watching to see if his hand is limiting his puck movement.
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You’ll be happy to learn that Willie Mitchell just stepped on the ice. He’s skating hard.
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Belexes Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:57 am
@wavesinair,
Nice!!
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Cynic Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 11:59 am
@wavesinair, Wish there was a way to get you paid for these practice updates…SOLID!
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Stuart Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
@wavesinair, I am happy to learn that! thanks for the eye-in-the-sky reporting!
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wavesinair Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
He just stepped off the ice. That was about 25 minutes of some really strong skating. Westy off last as usual. That completes practice. I’ll have some video up later…
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@wavesinair, Thanks for the info. it is much appreciated.
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I would repeat my lines (with no Richards) proposol for the third time:
Brown – Kopitar – Williams
Gagne – Loktionov – Stoll
Penner – Fraser – Richardson
Clifford – Lewis – Moreau
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Niko Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
@outsider, I can dig it!
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Eric Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
@outsider,
What does Lewis bring to the table? Is he tough? Does he hit? Does he crash the net? Does he score? All he is is a decent skater. Nothing more, nothing less.
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outsider Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
@Eric, don’t forget PK where he’s excellent! Kopi should not be used there too much… We need more of his energy for his ofensive contribution!
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Eric Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
@outsider,
By your reasoning, Mike Richards shouldn’t kill penalties either.
They don’t need another penalty killer. Almost every forward is more than capable of killing penalties, whether its Brown, Gagne, Kopitar, Moreau, Fraser, Stoll, Richardson, etc.
nykingfan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
@Eric,
I have to agree.
I was hoping he would take the next step after improving last season. He’s gone backwards so far this year.
He along with many of the players don’t deserve to be in the lineup..so it’s hard to get upset over his benching.
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@outsider, Not bad, not impressed with Richardson though. Not that Hunter is anything to write home about.
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Gagne-Kopitar-Brown
Penner-Stoll-Williams
Clifford-Richardson-Hunter
Moreau-Fraser-Westgarth
The first line of Gagne-Kopitar-Williams is simply, as I’ve stated on numerous occasions, too soft and finesse to get it done. Kopitar needs some grit on his wings.
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DEH Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
@Eric, I would switch brown and penner and see how that works. Brown looked good on the left and the right is Penner’s natural position. When we traded for him he was listed as a right winger, but occasionally played left, but because we needed a left winger we converted him to the left and kinda forgot he plays right.
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In the interview with Luc the other night he stated this team has been built for the playoffs. It does appear for the first 26 games we are doing just that but being on the wrong side of the one goal games will not get it done. GO KINGS GO!!!
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You all know I like TM..
I can feel the passion in the debates over the lines and whether or not Guys like Ricahrdson and Lewis deserve to play over others…
but let’s look realistically at the situation.
He’s tried all of the different combos at one point or another this year and they’re still not scoring.
I don’t believe it’s the system, but the players, but that’s just my opinion.
As far as the arguments over Ricahrdson playing…Can anyone honestly say they saw something from him Saturday afternoon to warrant him playing again?
I’m not saying any of the other guys deserve to be playing either because they all suck at this point..but it’s hard to get pissed over the fact that he’s not in the lineup on a regular basis.
If he was playing and Moreau or Hunter were sitting, we’d be calling for them to play because Richardson has done less than nothing so far this year.
At some point, someone has to step up and start putting pucks in the net on a regular basis..or at least somewhat consistently.
When TM called the timeout early in the game Saturday during the PP, did anyone see any of the players skating hard or making plays? I sure as heck didn’t. Now if you want to blame TM for that, go ahead..but to me the players on the ice are the biggest culprit.
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Eric Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@nykingfan,
I have no problem with Richardson playing because he’s effective one way or another, whether it’s getting under the opposition’s skin, the occasional scrap, chirp, etc. He actually plays with an attitude, something the Kings are dearly lacking in. I say play him instead of Loktionov, who, like, Lewis, brings absolutely nothing to the table. Richardson and Clifford combination has proven to have very good chemistry, but, for whatever reason, Murray doesn’t see it.
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nykingfan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@Eric,
but the bottom line is we’re not scoring goals….We have forwards who have no goals this season..that’s embarrassing. I know Richardson brings other things to the table, but right now we need goals from someone…anyone.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t be playing. I’m not taking a position on this because he along with the other non-scoring forwards are killing this team at the moment.
It hurts even more when proven goal scorers like JW are in a major slump.
Last season both Richardson and Lewis were playing well. They didn’t carry it over to this season…and that’s not good.
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Eric Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@nykingfan,
But, why aren’t they scoring? Something is simply off, whether its the system, TM’s motivation (or lack of motivation for that matter) of the players, etc. I actually believe that even if Lombardi acquired a Parise type of player, the Kings would still struggle to score goals. So what gives?
It makes you wonder if the contract extension given to JW is one of the reasons why he’s not producing anymore.
Northern Fan Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@nykingfan, not sure how we expect Richie to carry it over when he has played in a new position with a new line in every game.
KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@Eric, Richardson = 1 assist and a -5 … Hunter 3 assist plus 1. Tell me why Richardson is a better choice than Hunter again?
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Getting bored and impatient with this roster…with Richards out of the lineup, it makes me wonder how the hell we ever made the playoffs the previous two years. Trent Hunter is not suitable for a top six role in the NHL, yet we expect to win now? I wish we had speed and creativity. Chances are we either acquire Parise at the deadline or sign him, or some other big name guy like Semin or Grabovski and revert back to the same old same old 2 goals a game. The defensemen need to activate and stop throwing the puck to a forward in the neutral zone and sitting back and watching the Kings forwards play 3 on 5.
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Puckn-A Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores, TM turns big names into bottom 6 names.
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That 2nd line kind of makes me feel sick to my stomach…. Love Brown on the left side though. I had accepted and embraced the days of no longer having Stoll in a top 6 role.
Waivers Hunter on the 2nd line??? What’s the point of parking a dinosaur in front of the net when Stoll shoots it 3 feet wide anyway?
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Can someone please enlighten me:
What is so freakin’ sweet about Trent Hunter?! I have not seen even a glimmer of hope from anything the guy has done in a Kings uniform over the past 2 months. Yet, he is getting cracks on our top scoring line and now our secondary scoring line! I must be blind, so can someone please explain this guy deserves to wear a Kings uniform on a self proclaimed, “the time is now,” team?
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wavesinair Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@DBking,
Sure, I’ll try.
He’s a proven goal scorer when healthy. He as consistently scored a goal every 5 games or so, no matter how many games he’s played or what line he was on. But when placed on the Kings, as many before him can attest to, he struggles.
It seems people are quick to point out (not you) that TM hampers the offense, yet get down on a guy like Hunter for not contributing offensively. Many players numbers are down, he’s just one more. So it would make sense for people to give him a pass but it doesn’t work out that way.
It’s the coach, no it’s the player, no it’s the coach, no it’s the player. It’s like watching a dog chase its tail.
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California Royalty Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
@wavesinair, Well I’ll just shut my big mouth… haha
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DBking Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@wavesinair, When a player is not putting the puck in the back of the net, I look to other little things to identify if he is an asset to the team or not. Things such as 1) is he battling and winning loose pucks 2) How good is his puck possession? 3) How crisp is his passing? 4) Does he stick up for his teammates? 5) Does he consistently get shots on net? 6) Does he look like he’s light on his skates?
Being as fair as possible, I can’t say he gets a “yes” when I ask myself any of these questions after watching him, and that is why I am so confused.
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wavesinair Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
@DBking,
Fair points for sure. I’ve seen him hit pretty hard regularly, but I don’t think he’s anywhere near 100% in his skating, which goes to your point…well taken.
Stuart Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
@DBking, I think we should grade the team according to your assessments there:
1) C-
2) C-
3) D
4) B (would’ve been another C- but I like what Iv’e seen lately)
5) D
6) C+
So considering that we’re still in the hunt and not the bottom 16, I’ll take what we got. As a team, they are leaving much to be desired.
Hipcheck Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@wavesinair, wait a minute…..you are saying a former 20 goal scorer is coming to the Kings and now having trouble scoring? I call BS. I just cant believe that.
Signed,
Teddy Purcell & Matt Moulson
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Sdgolfer Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@Hipcheck, Same old talking point. Moulson on a cellar dweller, and Purcell average at best.
Kings x Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@DBking, It is Dwight king syndrome
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ABOUT THE ONLY LINE JUGGLING THAT HASN’T BEEN DONE IS THE LINE BEHIND THE BENCH!
MAYBE IT’S TIME FOR A NEW DIRECTION?
TOO MUCH TALENT TO NOT BE NEAR THE TOP OF THE STANDINGS!
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Harty Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@Cowboy Bill, would TM let his assistnats take the reins for a game and he watch from upstairs, better view of what is going on upstairs rather than in the moment.
Just a thought
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KC23 Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@Cowboy Bill, Lets really talk about this whole too much talent thing.
Stoll? Nope
Penner? Nope
Hunter? Nope
Moreau? Nope
Fraser? Nope
Lewis? Nope
Richardson? Nope
Westgarth? Nope
Clifford? Nope
Loktionov? Nope
Kopitar, Gagne, Williams, Brown, Richards. Five out of our 12 forwards are better than average. We are way way weak at forward and that is why we suck on offense more than anything. People want to through TM under the buss, get a new coach … but in the end you can dress up a pig anyway you want, but its still a pig.
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Silk Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
@KC23, Disagree with your assessment of Stoll and Richardson. They are both hustlers that constantly put pressure on the opposition which create opportunities. The problem is that they rarely have help with teammates joining in as DL pointed out in his comments today. An area that I happen to agree with DL in.
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*throw TM …
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How are the players supposed to be consistent when the lines never are? I’d rather see Richardson and Lewis in there just for the speed and energy. Murray has been shuffling the lines constantly for the past few seasons and keeps getting the same results, inconsistent hockey. I don’t think this guy will ever learn. We have a better team and are getting the same results. What is Lombardi thinking?
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I gotta admit I find it funny with everyone clamoring over lines the only name I never see mentioned is Colin Fraiser. Quite the pick up he has been for a fourth line center.
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What am I missing? Why is Hunter playing up in the top 6? He’s a plodder, doesn’t have very good hands and can’t finish. And he’s even getting PP time…
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wavesinair Reply:
December 5th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@Los Reyes,
See: http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/12/05/monday-practice-new-lines-2/#comment-926900
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Silk Reply:
December 7th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
@Los Reyes, Because TM is clueless.
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put lewie and richie with loki…..speed and talent will score goals young legs are what we need not hsa beens with no speed and no heart……..murray has a serious problem….he doesnt know any combinations that will work and he changes the lines every other game………….worse offensive coach ive ever seen and ive been watching hockey for 40 years.this guy needs to go asap if not sooner………….im so sick of heavy and compete……hell if they cant compete isnt that what coaches are for to motivate these guys…….pathetic…….if they wont compete get rid of whoever.were paying these guys money to play this game its their job to compete period…..look at quick now thats coomprting if any player cant match they need to go.thats what makes a great coach the person that has enough balls to do the right thing thats not always the most comfotabe position to be in ………weve sen it time after time with this guy…..he needs another line of work in some front office pushing tcket sales not behind the bench…….we still have plenty of time to right the ship………we should be in first place in the pacific division…….lets hope lombardi wakes up soon..good-nite now……….oh and i will not pay for any more seats until we come to our senses…….200.00bucks to watch that crap like last sat.is throwing money away…the sad part is all we need is a different system and offensive plan and were there.very frustrating to say the least
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I can’t believe TM has given Hunter more chances in Top 2 lines than he did with Parse…truly unbelievable. I’d rather have Lewis or Richardson over Hunter, at least they are faster skaters. And if Moreau goes back to the box bench him and double shift Brown.
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Loktionov is getting so totally Terry’d now, like Purcell and Parse before him. Move him around all over the place and try to force him into the round holes on the pegboard TM uses to make his lineup. B’bye Lokti, we hardly knew ye.
If you believe in a player’s ability (especially a young one), you should try to put him in the best position to succeed. Get his confidence going, rather than harp on his perceived limitations.
TM must conform all players to his grind it out system (including finesse / fast players). And if they happen to have enough skill to overcome and create offense for themselves, well that’s just something you can’t coach.
Finally, I think a big reason that many bloggers express frustration with TM is his apparently total lack of accountability. I mean, even Lane Kiffin, the most hated coach in America, freely admits when his game plan gets exposed or he fails to make adequate in-game adjustments.
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