We all remember The Great Goalie Debate of 2011, when Jonathan Quick recorded three consecutive shutouts but then sat the next game. Jonathan Bernier started and the Kings were shut out by New Jersey. Well, that’s in the past, but an interesting parallel came up today. I asked Murray about the possibility of Bernier starting a game in the near future, and Murray said that he had “penciled in’’ Bernier to start Thursday, but elected to go with Quick after Quick’s strong game Monday. A bit of a lesson learned, perhaps? Quick will start against Florida tomorrow, and Murray indicated that Bernier might be in line for the start Saturday against Montreal.
MURRAY: “When I go back over the past few days, thinking about what I was going to do for tomorrow’s game, Bernier, he was the guy that I was actually penciling into the lineup. Then Quick goes out and plays the way he did against San Jose. So I’m going to come back with him, and we’ll take a look at Bernier against Montreal.’’
I say keep TM around as long as possible. The comedic relief he provides is genius
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Lanny McDonald's 'Stache Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@Jim,
How infuriatingly frustrating of TM. The only thing worse than sitting Quick after the 3 shutouts is being completely hypocritical about that strategy later in the season.
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YoBro Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
@Lanny McDonald’s ‘Stache, It’s called learning. Not a bad thing.
Go Kings
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StillKingly Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
@Jim, LOL!
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Silk Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
@Jim, Agreed. If it weren’t for Quick, we would have lost against SJ. TM’s strategy of protecting a lead in the third period is pathetic. We have been very fortunate this year that we have only lost one game with a lead going into the 3rd. JQ is simply amazing and is probably the main reason that TM still has his job. I wish we would stop the “Prevent Defense” and keep the offensive pressure on. It makes me sick! frankly, I don’t feel good about our last win or the past 3 games!
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O-Dawg Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 2:58 pm
@Silk, Agreed. I don’t know why TM didn’t call a time out because we played almost the entire 3rd period in our end.
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Quick sucks VS Florida = Bernier Saturday
Quick stellar VS Florida = Bernier Saturday
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markisonfire Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@KingsGuy, Terry Murray’s “Go With the Hot Hand” plan at its finest.
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#unclewillyson Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@KingsGuy, Quick sucks vs any team = Quick in the very next game. It’s stupid how the label of a no. 1. Protects quick when he plays poorly.
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TransAm Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@#unclewillyson, when was the last time quick played poorly?
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
@TransAm, Detroit.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
You tell us when that happens. (strike one on Detroit)
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Lesson learned and applied, which is all we can ask for.
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Zuggyfan Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@jess, How long has this guy been coaching now and he is still learning something like this? when JB wins a game, JQ starts next game and when JQ wins a game, he stays in….OK, Let’s wear him out again so he can be useless again and JB can’t win because he never gets to play.
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jess Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@Zuggyfan, I like to see JB play -he is an incredible goaltender and other teams would love to have him. With that said, TM has this basic issue seemingly under control for the moment. Next case, -of which there are many…
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@jess, He’s in a tough spot, because there aren’t back to back games for three weeks. What happens if Quick shuts Florida out?
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I think he’ll have proved he’s learned more if Quick shuts out the Panthers tomorrow and goes with him again on Saturday.
I’m liking the effort to stick with what’s working though, even if that means Hunter on the first line again (Would prefer Richardson…have I said that before, like a few times?)
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outsider Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@Cynic, in my opinion Hunter on the 1st line proved that he is good enough to remain the bottom 6 RW on our team. I agree he battled hard, he had also the highest 4 SOG, but no plays for Kopi and no real danger for Niemi at all. Except genius play by Brownie that resulted in a regular goal which was disallowed I didn’t see any chemistry on this line.
If TM wants another look at Brownie on the LW, he should at least bring back Williams on the 1st line RW, put Richardson on the 3rd (Lokti, Clifford) line RW and maybe replace Westy with Hunter on the 4th for Florida game…
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@Cynic, Hah…should have read that before I posted it above.
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Cynic Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, No foul if you didn’t see it. LOL! The question is valid no matter how many times you ask it.
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It will have to lead to disaster…..oh well.
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Excyuth me whal i shcrapth mi mouf of th flur! Now that my jaw is back in place, WOW, TM appears to have learned something.
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KingsGuy Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
@DesertKing, Funny post
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
@DesertKing,
Don’t bet your house on it tho. You are talking about Terry Murray, you know.
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OK I think Quick should get the start simply because there are 2 days between each game and he had a shut out in the last game
A counter arguement would be…He rose to the occasion against a bitter rival and division opponent and will not come out with the same enthusiasm or hunger against Florida so why not give Bernier the start and save Quick for Sat against the Habs…gives him some rest…if Bernier loses on Thurs he has more motivation to win…
Either way you can’t go wrong…unless Bernier plays on Thurs and loses…Then, …well …FIRE TM!!!! ya know it would start up again
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fsd1 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
@g smith86, JQ is a world class goalie and a beast. To even insinuate that he doesnt come out with the same “enthusiasm” or “hunger” in every game he plays is like calling JQ frolov.
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Let’s face it, anybody who scores a goal, boom, Tm moves him to the 1st or 2nd line. He is so bad, you can read him like a book (War & Peace). Just keep the lines as is until westy scores another goal, then we will see him on the PP. Of course, in Hunter’s case, it’s anybody who gets in front of the net twice in a game and misses the open side of the net.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@HappyLappy, Lets face it, with the way this team is scoring goals i can see why he moves players around, if he is so bad how did we get into the playoffs the last 2 years after 8 years of no playoffs? You will never see Westgarth on the PP, and Hunter was one of the best performers last game. See, it all makes sense to me…..
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Happy Lappy Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@fsd1, It makes sense to you, ok, never mind, TM must be the best coach in the league. Let’s see, I hope you are right, I just don’t happen to agree.
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He absolutely is making the right Call here. You definitely come back with Quick. If Quick has another scoreless win with Florida, you come back again with Quick with Montreal. But knowing TM, Quick will do that, and TM will start Bernier anyway. BTW, replace Hunter with Westgarth on the 1st line. After all, he scored a goal, and is on a hot streak. Actually, take Brownie off the ist line and keep Hunter there and Westgarth with Kopi centering. Perfect.
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Dominick Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
@Poorman, No need to change the lines because TM will put them together when he double shifts Kopi anyways. lol
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he should just keep his mouth shut like every other team.. he aint helping himself flip-flopping on the goalie plan
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@Rudedogg,
Bingo!
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Good call, TM.
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TM’s coming around. Take it 1 game at a time. No need to micro manage things when you have 2 outstanding goalies. Hope Quick kills it against Florida. They’re definately not the same Florida team we saw last season.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@Dominick,
One thing about micro managers. They can’t change, because they can’t understand any other way.
It may appear TM is “coming around” or starting to get it. Don’t bet on it. Once a micro manager, always one.
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Dominick Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@Kingsfanone,
I am more worried about how the Kings, as a team will handle our next 2 opponents then who is in goal. Both Florida, and Montreal are heavy puck possession teams, and play a lot between the dots with speed. Kings have had their share of trouble with these types of teams because much of the Kings game depends on slowing down their opponent, and pushing them to the outside.
The next 5 games after that are against teams that are more management types, but these next 2 games have me worried.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@Dominick,
I feel exactly the same as you, especially Florida. The Panthers scare me, especially their one line with Versteeg, Weiss. That line has been scoring like crazy.
As for who we have in goal, I’m comfortable with either, but the offense continues to struggle, and that worries me greatly. Defense is wonderful, but if you don’t score and they get a lucky goal or you have a breakdown, you lose. Still gotta score more than the other guys to win.
vplaza Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
@Dominick,
I think that the team’s inability to score goals consistently should also still be a concern. They’re in the bottom quarter of the league in total goals scored so far. Florida and Montreal has scored more, so the person in goal will certainly play a factor in the games, as should the team in front of him.
But if they can’t score goals themselves, then…
Start the frenchie against the frenchies.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
that’s right…good point
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Glad to see TM learned his lesson.
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Hey Rich, It was reported by ESPN that Parse is out for the season and going to have surgery on BOTH hips. Why hasn’t anything been written about this? Is it true? And if it is true, does it open up a roster spot, do we get any salary cap relief? Inquiring minds need to know!!
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Rich Hammond Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@Play2Win,
http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/11/28/parse-out-for-season-to-have-surgery/
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Now which hand is TM referring to being the hot hand?….the left or the right?
Maybe he got his left and right hands mixed up last time and that’s why he sat quick…accidentally…
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If we win I could care less what the lines are. I am cool with a first line of Hunter, Moreau, and Westgarth if we win.
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Sort of feel badly for JB. He’s only won two games this year. So he goes in against a team that the Kings have the absolute worst history possible against. So a great chance for him to dip under .500?
Hopefully the team in front of him plays – like – 60 minutes and finds a way above and beyond all ways to score more than 2 goals.
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vplaza Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@number 6,
Just MHO, but I think TM’s attempt earlier in the year to pencil in (or was that use a Sharpie?) JB’s name for that start before Quick had his three shutouts was his attempt at making sure that JB was prepared and involved in the season. Now that it backfired on him, he’s backing off on trying to do that.
The issue is that Quick is playing well and with his role as a backup, it’s going to be tough to find starts for him. I like JB too and hope that he gets enough starts so that he can stay sharp.
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number 6 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@vplaza,
Yeah. And other than that first goal vs. St. L (which he said was his fault though I wasn’t entirely convinced) I thought he was superb. And thats what bothers me about him not getting more starts. And it’s also why I’m less thrilled with him playing next time against a team that historically the Kings haven’t done well against.
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vplaza Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@number 6,
Who knows, maybe he stands on his head and beats the Habs. Hate that team.
Osaka Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@number 6, But Montreal is 10-10-4
g smith86 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
@vplaza, “hope he gets enough starts” …? This is the best controversy the Kings have because it means we have a bonified #1 goalie who is playing lights out and making it hard for another great goalie to get any action…this is such a good thing and quite honestly…never seen before in Kings history
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JD Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@g smith86, TM is gonna start quick no matter how he plays, he had a 6 game loosing streak earlier
Deke'r Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@number 6, That’s the spirit! Confidence.
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number 6 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@Deke’r,
Hey dude. When you remember the Marty McSorley magic stick episode, it just makes one wonder what the story is between these two teams. I’d be faking it if I came on and said, here we go (like the beer commercial), we’re gonna send the Habs packing with their tails between their legs. Osaka above said the Habs are 10-10-4.
We haven’t beaten them even in the years when they didn’t make the playoffs. Also, if we’re being honest it’s a sat day game and the Kings don’t have a scalding record in those either. So, lets just say it’s not a game that I’d bet on if I were a betting guy, which I’m not.
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number 6 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@number 6,
Oh, and I suppose it’s to not be disappointed if I’m honest. So far the Kings are struggling mightily to break the 2 goal mark. I reckon they’re gonna need to do that on Saturday. Hey, who knows, maybe JB shuts em out 1-0. Who knows.
bcjays Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
@number 6, Dont feel to bad for Bernier. Montreal is not that good a team.
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I’m not going to agree with this decision, or disagree with it. The Kings can’t seem to beat Montreal, so why not give the hot goalie a shot, meaning Bernier starts tomorrow?
Im not sayin…. just sayin
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
@California Royalty,
Interesting thought! Actually, not a bad idea. Unfortunately, Murray thinks in a entirely different manner, so he would never do it. Stellar reasoning tho using Quick vs. the Habs! I like it!!
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@California Royalty,
BTW get your pics yet?
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California Royalty Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@Kingsfanone, haha nope! @puck73 is taking his sweet time! haha I want to see them so bad!
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
@California Royalty,
Boy, he could’ve printed that pic of you & Luc to poster size, had it framed, then mailed it by now! The other pics, yeah, those are nice to have, but really, one with Luc friggin Robitaille for crying out loud! Is want that one!
g smith86 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@California Royalty, and if Quick wins on Thursday…you will prob see him again on Sat
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Deke'r Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@g smith86, ….one can only hope…
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California Royalty Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@g smith86, You would think, but based on this post, Murray seems excited to play Bernier against Montreal. If memory serves me correct, Bernier played against Montreal last time the game was in LA. I think MTL won 4-2
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g smith86 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
@California Royalty, I don’t know what TM is thinking…I’m not in his shoes, but in order to keep a goalie sharp he has to play at some point. It’s almost as if TM is letting Bernier know publicly that he hasn’t forgotten about Bernier.
jason Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
@California Royalty, Quick against any team, hes better
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more tissues please
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TM plays Quick … fans whine how bad TM is
TM plays Bernier … fans whine how bad TM is
Kings win after changing lines and playing against one of the best teams in the league … fans whine how bad TM is
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
@KC23, actually, TM makes crappy decisions that don’t follow his own supposed logic, fans whine about how bad he is.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
@KC23, As a coach, he has options in net, which is a good thing. Not going to second guess him on that…They are both good goalies and TM is going to play the hot hand…I say he’s right…no rush to get Bernier some playing time with plenty of off nights this week
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dMan Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
@KC23, It’s a lot easier to blame the coach than to take the time to perform any real in-depth analysis.
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CB14 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@KC23, I’ve been known to whine how bad TM is, but I don’t understand the hate with this move. Quick is coming off a shutout, and has 2 days off in between games, so he should play. It’s as simple as that. Bernier needs to play in order to keep him sharp, but not after Quick posts a shutout. TM made a bad decision the first time, and has learned his lesson well. I got no problems with this decision at all, and I don’t understand the disagreement with it.
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Happy Lappy Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
@KC23, All I can say is, pass the Wine.
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neil Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
@Happy Lappy, Red REd Wine……
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RogerRabbit Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
@KC23, @neil, One game does not a season make. I’m thrilled that we one the other night, but there is no precedence that the random association lne changes that TM made are going to make one bit of difference against Florida or the Habs. The performance of our team is sporadic at best and regardless of weather he plays JB or JQ or Ricardson or Westgarth or Gretzky the coaching staff isn’t providing stability and consistency to the team = Coaching problem. 1 win does not make me change my mind that TM needs to go and needs to go soon. Change needs to come from the Coaching staff down. Kompon and TM both need to go as they have not lived up to their parts on the team. A new breath of fresh air is needed. While you are at it feel free to give a high salary to the New primadonna coaching staff on a season by season contract. If you don’t make the cut we can replace you again for next year till we get to our cup. I can assure you in this economy there are more than one taker for the job who can’t possibly be any less stable then what we have now.
RR
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(this time) good one Rich
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Out of curiosity…
How many of the posters here who obviously know a lot about coaching are currently coaching?
And at what level?
Post your resumes, please.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@dMan, I once coached a little league baseball team….does that count?
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CB14 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@dMan, I have never coached the game of Hockey. I have played the game of Hockey and followed the Kings, and the game of Hockey, for as long as I can remember.
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neil Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
@dMan, same thing was said about Pat Riley(Basketball..I know)
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@dMan, You don’t need to know how to cook food to know it sucks. Apply that how you will.
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CB14 Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, Perfect, just perfect.
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dMan Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@CB14, no, not really – see my comment below.
dMan Reply:
December 1st, 2011 at 5:28 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
Interesting comment, but a roundabout defensive answer.
So the food sucks, fine, but would you tell the Chef HOW to cook the food AND make it better?
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jason Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
@dMan, i played blades of steel
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So let’s have it out…
My picks for goal
Quick on Thurs against Florida
(if Quick dominates in the net again then he plays Sat… if not then)
Bernier plays Sat…(someone posted earlier that it’s Frenchy against the Frenchies)
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Quick has been playing well this year and that warrants his playing so much. However, at this rate 20 out of 24, I’m afeared TM will ride him into the ground as he did 2 yrs. ago. Maybe it’s the conference heavy schedule the 1st couple mos.? But we have a capable backup who’s just riding the pine and I for one would like to see him get more time, practice doesn’t count. God forbid we get another Lehtonen situation.
Go Kings
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
@YoBro, I never actually bought into that theory about how TM rode him into the ground. My theory was he couldn’t get any sleep because of the first time infant.
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jason Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, i agree! I think Quick should play more and he’ll be fine through the playoffs.. probably just a way to get bernier more involved
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 30th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
@jason, Yeah, I agree on Bernier too. While I don’t think it affects Quick to play too much (except back-to-back nights) I do think Bernier’s game, understandably, suffers if he doesn’t get in at least every 10-15 days.
Bernier and Penner for Ryan, Bernier and Penner for Ryan,….huh? errrh…Whaaat?….Is it time to wake up already??!! But I don’t want to go to school today…I feel sick….
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