Even when he makes significant line changes, Terry Murray typically keeps two players on a line together and changes one. It’s a change but, at the same time, a way to maintain a bit of consistency. Well, all that went out the window today. With the exception of the fourth line, everything got shuffled. Anze Kopitar, Mike Richards and Andrei Loktionov each get two net linemates. It goes without saying, of course, that the point is to shake things up offensively. Here’s what Murray said today about the changes, first in general and then more specifically…
MURRAY: “We need something going on the offensive part of it. It starts with shots. I look at a team like Chicago. They’re leading the conference in goals for, and in fact they lead it by a wide margin. You end up watching them, and watch the game over this morning, and they shoot the puck from everywhere. They’re getting pucks to the net from the neutral zone. A guy like Patrick Sharp is, I would consider a pretty good goal scorer in the league, and he’s putting pucks to the net from outside the circle on a consistent basis. All they’re looking for is to bring people to the net for second and third opportunities. That’s an attitude that we have to get settled on, on a consistent basis, is to simplify the game. Stop trying to do the extra pass, the extra pretty play, trying to beat guys. More pucks to the net. That will get their D turned around, and that brings us in there and hopefully we can feed off it.”
Question: You’ll be getting Loktionov back to center then?
MURRAY: “I’m going to try him in the middle. The game starts off last night, the first shift, and he comes down the left-wing side with a perfect opportunity to get the puck to the net and he looks for a pass. I think he’s a little hesitant right now on that left-wing side, so I’m making the move to get him back to the middle. He had a smile on his face in practice today, and hopefully we’ll start to see the play that we need from him.’’
Question: What is your read on Trent Hunter? He’s had a few games back in the lineup and he’s certainly had a couple scoring chances…
MURRAY: “Some grade-A chances, triple-A chances. But you know what? Last night was his best game. His intensity, his pursuit of the puck, puck on his stick, making plays, he came alive last night and that’s encouraging. I want to take a look at him with Kopitar now, and see if we can build off of that game last night.’’
Terry Murray… I have to agree 100%
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variable Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@#1faninVegas,
yep…
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Räikkönen Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
@#1faninVegas,
Chicago was swarming the net last night. Whatever adjustment Murray made in the 3rd it worked, it was like the tables were turned. Lets hope it works against San Jose.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@Räikkönen, The Hawks were holding a lead and looked like the 13 day, 6 game road trip on a back to back, was finally catching up to them. Believe me, if the Kings had tied that game or gone ahead with time left in the third,…it would have been the Kings chasing them around and looking bad
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Räikkönen Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@g smith86,
Okay, you said if they tied it up, the kings would be the ones chasing them? Wait, I thought you just mentioned the Hawks were looking like the 13th day, 6 game road trip on a back to back?
The fact is they made big adjustments in the latter half of the game, Chicago couldn’t get the puck out. The forecheck worked and the Kings hemmed the zone pretty good. These new lines are reflective of that momentum. The changes are needed because the bottom-six has not been performing up to standard. Funny enough, the top-6 was doing just fine aall along. Those depth lines are making us look bad.
tkecanuck341 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
When you have a “hopefully” in your strategy, then you are going to have problems. HOPEFULLY he gets fired soon.
g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
@g smith86,To clarify, they would have found some energy to mount a come back…that’s the way it is in this league. For the most part, the team that’s trailing has more of the chances in the third…Prevent d-fense prevents winning sometimes
#1faninVegas Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
@Räikkönen,
That has been my argument about Murray, he does make adjustments. It IS UP TO THE PLAYERS to accept the changes or not. They are still listening too him. My agreement with the line changes is the fact that now scoring is balanced. Our bottom six were not producing, now he shook things up. Maybe it will work… may it wont. Either way, he is trying his best!
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
@#1faninVegas, Breakouts and a easy to read cycle is part of the problem as well
g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@#1faninVegas, wow let me use english and try that again. Break-outs and an easy-to-read cycle are part of the problem too
Sdgolfer Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
@#1faninVegas, He’s right. Loki should’ve shot the puck.
It’s also funny watching the meltdown going on here.
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love him, hate him – tm’s assessment is spot-on…imo…
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Unless they sent Richardson and Lewis on a vacation to the Mark Messier Shooting Academy, this doesn’t make any sense. Hey, remember that line that scored half our goals again San Jose? Who was on that line again?
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for some strange reason im starting to like the line combos…….did i really just say that?
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I’m sorry, I know I’m the vast minority here but I like Coach Murray.
He can only be as good as his players on the ice and he knows the game inside out. I agree that there are better coaches or, at least, better track records but nobody can tell me Coach doesn’t know what he’s doing or isn’t not making this a better team…..
That being said, let’s get DL the message that the Team needs a left winger that can score.
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Poor Kopi, he has to carry a crap player around on his line with him…Hunter is crap…TM so r you for not scratching Him …TM, two names, Lewis and Richardson…Kopi would prob not playing with them
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@g smith86, prob not mind
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tantrum4 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@g smith86,
How is Richardson or Lewis any better than Hunter? They are both brutal as well.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@tantrum4, I answered you that up top
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Fuzzerson Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@tantrum4, At least they can skate
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chip Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
@g smith86, None of the players deserve the description “crap”. Hunter probably isn’t a first liner, but he doesn’t deserve that kind of comment.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
@chip, r u two related or something? Give me a break, it’s frustrating blog stuff here…sorry I hurt your feelings
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waitingforend Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@g smith86, LOL!!!!!
It sounds good in theory….but somehow the message have gone unheard for three years.Something is not right with this team.We have goal scorers..we have vets…we have youngsters..we have defensemen that can score….Intensity…enthusiuism….drive…..all is missing.We have players who hustle all the time(Richards,Richardson,Cliffy,Lewis etc) but still something is not right….It hasnt been right since the start of camp(look back at all the comments during camp)the Kings havnt played well yet even when we were winning.
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waitingforend Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 11:49 am
@neil, very good point, i agree.
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Are any of you reading this as anything other than the same garbage about shot mentality? He wants shots from the neutral zone now? From bad angles? From everywhere? Just fire the shot at the net? This isn’t an offensive system and that is NOT what Chicago was doing last night. This is panic coupled with incompetence.
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#1faninVegas Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@Bobby Scribe,
Actually he is right, Chicago did shoot from the neutral zone. They did shoot from everywhere.
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Bobby Scribe Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@#1faninVegas, When they were going for a line change? Perspective. How many of those shots from terrible angles ended up in scoring chances? The far majority (over 80%) of goals are scored below the top of the circle and between the dots. If Murray put as much emphasis on lateral passes and one timers as he did on “shoot from anywhere”, our offensive woes would be minimal, if at all. Instead, his entire offense is built around getting the puck to the point and firing away.
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#1faninVegas Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@Bobby Scribe,
I saw lateral passes all day against Detroit, and it cost us practically every pass. They kept intercepting the puck. I was praying for the old dump and chase to return because our passes kept getting intercepted, but it didnt happen. Therefore, I feel that passing needs to be when it can be done. The pretty plays can happen when the timing is right, but for now, I agree with shooting the puck. The goalie isnt going to stop every shot, and if our guys were ready for the rebound we’d have more goals. Therefore, I agree with the shoot the puck from anywhere and everywhere. A goal is a goal no matter how you get it.
colo king fan Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@#1faninVegas,
Chicago scored all of 2 goals last night. Hell the Kings do that most of the time. How bout we go look at footage of games in which they scored 6 and see where THOSE shots came from – I guarantee they weren’t from the neutral zone.
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Donald_S Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Bobby Scribe,
Incompetence is way too strong. But as I’ve said before, TM was brought in as a teaching coach, which Marc Crawford mostly definitely was not. And he did a great job. But this team is beyond that now. They need a motivator and tactician. The underperformance of talents like Penner and Doughty and Stoll point that out.
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uclaemt Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@Donald_S, What he is asking of his players is to shoot the puck. They have clear chances and don’t. The cute plays you ask for the team is trying and it’s not working. If they would just shoot from anywhere 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities will happen and we will score ugly goals, playoff style goals. We have 2 maybe 3 guys that can make the pretty pass that’s not our game or the team we’ve built.
To address the Penner underperformance: No coach has been able to get it from him, it’s not TM. He had a good year in ANA & EDM way over paid him. Penner’s problem is Penner. He will eventually get over it and score for us or whoever he ends up with.
Doughty: Lighting in a bottle– He has a great year and great olympics. He believes his own press clippings & shows up fat and out of shape last year & numbers reflect it. This year he still thinks he’s the guy from 2 years ago skips camp for a contract & shows up unprepared and under delivering for what he told DL and the fans he was: The best player on the team (read as I want the most money cause I’m the best). He needs to be a team player first and not the selfish brat he’s been the last 2 years…if he doesn’t he’ll go down as one of the all-time greatest flops in NHL history.
Stoll: That’s a tough one…he plays against easier competion now that he’s off the top 2 lines & his roll hasn’t changed. There’s something wrong with his head this season.
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#1faninVegas Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@uclaemt,
Great post! I agree! The pretty plays are not working so simplify the game and just shoot. the 2nd and 3rd chances will happen, and your right. That is how play-off contenders are built.
g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@uclaemt, the problem is is that when the puck gets to the net there is nobody there to get the rebound. I think they finally got second chance rebounds in the last period the other night…before that it was not there
I don’t understand why if Stoll can play wing then why not on Lokti line? What is Murrays hesitation to put G R and W together…I just don’t get it…Hey TM, the sign says”the time is now” be like matthew perry in that lame movie “fools rush in” and follow the signs
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Pesus Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:46 pm
@g smith86,
Im not one to back up TM but I think he wants someone with expierence along side the rookie, Stoll on his right side is almost like another rookie.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
@Pesus, Stoll is not a like another rookie…TM has had him taking face offs in crucial situations, he has him on the point on the pp…and he has had some success in those situations…pretty good for a so called rook!
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
@g smith86, also he is a regular on the penalty shot
g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:32 pm
@g smith86, shoot out that is
Terry Murray has officially gone off his rocker.
Please call a mental hospital.
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yea fire a puck at the goalie right away…get the goalie in his comfort zone…make sure it’s from the red line with no traffic so the goalie can see it and then watch as he dominates you for the rest of the game
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The problem with this, in my mind, isn’t the theory – it’s the players he’s not using. You have talent in Manchester, you have Lewis and Richardson who are better, faster and hungrier than Ethan M. and Hunter.
If you take Hunter and Ethan out, put Lewis and Richardson in – OK, give this a go! I like switching up Stoll and Lokti. It show’s Lokti that we’re committed to him and that he doesn’t have to be perfect right now, he can grow into his place on the team.
I like Gag’s and Richardson, though I’d like it with Williams better. Then put Penner-Kopi and Brown on a line and Cliffor-Lok-Stoll on the third.
We have the pieces, but they aren’t Hunter and Ethan. Go back to the youth, not the geezers.
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tantrum4 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
@Bama Kings,
I disagree about Lewis and Richardson. They also both suck.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@tantrum4, can’t be any worse than Hunter and Moreau have been
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@tantrum4, I don’t think they are great, I’m saying they are still worth developing, younger and faster. They are equally as poor right now, but with upside.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@Bama Kings, They have shown a lot more upside than what I have seen from those other 2 clowns
Osaka Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
@Bama Kings, Richardson and Lewis are hungrier? How do you measure hungry? What level on the hungry scale? They are so talented and hungry they are COMBINED for 0 goals and 2 assist.
Stay hungry my friend.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:33 pm
@Osaka, They might just be …the most hungriest forwards in the league
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seriously though-that is the only thing he has to say. I guess Jim Fox should be our new coaCH then. At least he understands the need to get the puck deep and behind the defense and behind the net. It’s one thing to say you need to get shots to the net and make the D turn and then crash for rebounds, but I like J Fox’ idea much better. The Kings are not spending nearly enough time in the O zone and way too much time defending in their zone. They need to vary their cycle and they need to come up with more breakout plays coming out of the zone. That was very apparent last night…the fact that they didn’t have an answer for the press that chicago set up. Chicago new exactly what the Kings were trying to do to get out of their zone…can you say predictable
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@g smith86, When Bob retires, I wouldn’t mind that at all.
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Kings are pretty good this year…… As long as they don’t play a top tier team.
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@King Doughnuts, A great definition for “average.”
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I’m just still very uneasy with hunter on the first.
Go slugs go!
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TM says “we need to simplify our attack” and I say we need to vary our attack. BTW, “attack” is such a strong word to use for such a simple-minded offensive plan. You know, fire the puck from everywhere and trying to get the puck to the net isn’t a bad idea sometimes. But with TM it is an offensive philosophy…Wow, that is offensive to me
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I don’t know why some of you are so upset with these “probable” new line changes, nothing else seems to be working, so why not. I think it doesn’t matter what Murray does right now, most just want him gone, so whatever he does is just going to rile the majority up. As far as the D pairings go, I don’t think Voynov has been as good without Mitchell and neither Mitchell or Johnson have looked good together.
Are far as some thInking so and so is being “demoted” I don’t agree, it doesn’t matter what line a player is on as long as the chemistry is right with the linemates, besides it isn’t like Justin Williams has been tearing up the league so far this season. I’m really wasting my time with this post though because I know the “usuals” are going to want this team ran like an NHL 12 “fantasy” game. Have fun!
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@Shotongoal, Richards, Gagne and williams…try that one TM
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puck73 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@Shotongoal, I am just glad to see one of your posts be relevant. So on that note, thanx Rich, @ShotonGoal is a good guy and he means well, thanx for giving him a chance to make a s post that I usually enjoy reading.
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#1faninVegas Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@puck73,
Amen
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#1faninVegas Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Shotongoal,
Welcome back, and I agree! I am getting tired of the same repetitive garbage that, I may follow suit. As Puck73 told me a few people have decided to leave the blog, and the repetitiveness of Terry Murray being fired is becoming like the salem witch hunt. Anything Terry Murray does or says is ludicrous. Players are not playing like they should and therefore its TMs fault. My question is, when does it become the players fault. I have not heard people complain about the players performance. Stoll playing poorly is Stolls fault, not TMs fault, but the majority is it is Terry Murrays fault that Stoll is playing poorly.
Hence I have to agree with your assessment. These people on this blog have so many blinders on that they want this team run like a video game, a team they can control. A team they can be GM, Coach, Owner, and player.
It is good to have you back Shotongoal… and hopefully TM stirred the pot in the players mind. See ya round buddy!
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@#1faninVegas, Then you haven’t really been reading the blogs…2 weeks ago that’s all anyone was talking about..’where is Stoll’ …’Brown needs to score’…’Penner sucks’ …and on and on down the line. We know as fans that we can’t get rid of all the players. A change needs to be m,ade somewhere
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Shotongoal Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@#1faninVegas, Thanks boys! That’s really all I’m saying. It’s not like I have a love affair with Murray, but the fact is for right now he still is the coach and hopefully he will try things that just might work. Stoll, Richardson, Lewis, Penner all came into this season with things to prove, Stoll and Penner playing for new contracts for next season, Lewis and Richardson starting with newly signed contacts, and none of them have performed so far! That’s the coaches fault? Maybe some of it is, but it’s also on the players IMO.
The seasons still young and I still think this team will be better. But if not then management will do what they have to. Whether that’s during the season or in the offseason. My problem with some of the negativity here or the hope for failure, and let’s far it, that d
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Shotongoal Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@Shotongoal, Sorry dang new phone…….as I was saying negativity does exist with some here, in a big way! But if we are calling for the coaches head it’s because this team is failing and I would think that would be the last thing a true fan would want to see happening.
Shooting the puck more is a good idea if you have players willing and able to get to the front of the net.
Penner did not replace the production or net front presence of Smyth.
Stoll is not playing the same role as Zeus.
Two players known for crashing the net and getting greasy goals.
Holes in the lineup that were never filled in the offseason.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@bitter, Penner is a 230 pounder who plays like a winger in the Gretzky era, except he doesn’t have any speed. You are dead on, he gets out of the way when the shots coming. Totally afraid of the puck. Smythe would at least hang in there and try deflect the puck, which is something he was good at, but now you are right. We have no one that is willing to take the punishment down low
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@bitter, Good points.
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bitter Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@KC23,
Both Stoll and Zeus were players that were signed during the era nobody wanted to play here and thus had to be overpaid by the Kings. Stoll is not an ideal 3rd line center in my opinion. He’s too much of a perimeter player. He’s not going to get ugly goals on the forecheck and cycle. Not to mention he’s one of the remaining players signed to exorbitant contracts. Zeus was totally overpaid too but at least he fit the role and produced points while playing solid defense and killing penalties. What we need is Zeus but cheaper. Now SJ pays him 2.5. Still a bit high but almost half what the Kings were paying him. Is he worth 2.5? What do you guys think?
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@bitter, Yeah, we overpaid Smyth as well for the same reason.
Stoll has to have strong line mates to be effective. Stoll played with Williams a lot the last few years and that helped him a lot. This year he has very little talent playing with him so he is exposed. Stoll has to be with linemates that can forecheck well. Clifford is finally starting to get back to last seasons form. I think Clifford will start putting up some numbers soon.
Please don’t ask me about Hunter … I’ve seen very little reason why he should be playing at all, let alone on the first line. I’ll support TM though and hope he sees something all of us arm chair quarterbacks don’t.
Pathetic=problematic=poor execution
Hope these changes spark a positive change. Penner will be back in a game or two then lotki will be sent down
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I did a little number crunching.
In Gagne’s career he has averaged 31 goals and 32 assist (63 points) per 82 games. Under TM’s system he so far is on a pace for 27 goals and 27 assists (54 points) in 82 games.
In Richard’s career he has averaged 25 goals and 39 assist (64 points) per 82 games. Under TM’s system he so far is on a pace for 36 goals and 32 assists (68 points) per 82 games.
In William’s career he has averaged 20 goals and 33 assist (53 points) per 82 games. Under TM’s system (this year) he so far is on a pace for 11 goals and 46 assist (57 points) per 82 games.
I consider these three to very good examples as opposed to many of the players that have gone on to other teams from TM’s system to get better numbers. Virtually all of them were just starting their careers under TM before they moved on to get much better.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@KC23, Think of how good these players would be in another system. I can see it on Richards face. He is tired of playing this system
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@g smith86, I was thinking exactly that (“Think how good these players would be in another system”) and there is no evidence to support your claim.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@KC23, yea, and Richards wants that chance
Osaka Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@g smith86, Dude the stats are there! Richards’ career year point total is lower playing somewhere else. He is above his average playing under the TM system. Now your making stuff up saying he isn’t happy?!?! Did he tell you? Mike is a hockey player, he thrives playing this style (evidence his stats).
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
@Osaka, I see it in the performance…I was one not on the ‘fire TM’ bandwagon just a few days ago, but when I saw waht went on against the Hawks it opened my eyes. The hawks are a very good offensive team with maybe the best top six in the league. But the Kings are at home on a sat night with 2 days rest and catching a team at the end of a long road trip and the second night of a back to back…NO EXCUSE…YOU HAVE TO WIN THAT GAME! Maybe I saw frustration in their eyes…yes…but black goat like eyes tell different tales OSAKA you, of all people should know that body language can reveal a lot…and the message is loud and clear
rick Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
@g smith86, I had no idea we had a face reader in the crowd.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 12:10 am
@rick, yea and when they show TM s face after the Kings lose what does it say to you?
Osaka Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@KC23, Great post. This was my argument when people say the system doesn’t work or we have so much talent on paper we should win every game. I don’t see our roster being elite. We have some good solid players and our centers on the first two line are great, but the roster is not as great as fans think it is. The players are playing up to their abilities and there is still a lack of scoring. You want more scoring you need players that can score more or at least a couple more skilled players because the 3rd line we had couldn’t (of course Jared had the only goal last night). Is our roster that much better than last year’s? Our centers are better but with Zues and Simmer on the 3rd line last year it was more productive. We signed Simon but he just replaced Ryan. We needed to address more scoring on the wing after last season but we didn’t, we just replaced a guy we lost.
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
@Osaka, Penner, Stoll and Clifford are all not playing anywhere near up to their abilities. Penner, at least, has been hurt virtually the whole year. Clifford and Stoll have no such excuse.
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puddle Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@KC23, Well, Stoll has been playing with 3rd liners rather than 2nd liners. That could largely account for his drop in production.
Lexigirl Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
@KC23, Unfortunately, for statistics to work, you have to take alot more into consideration than the average of numbers, like the variable and invariable points. Point in case, Kopitar, Brown and Williams have been playing in Murray’s “system” for a number of years, yet their production is off so far as well. Now this could conceivably change by the end the year for better or worse, however, they have a constant that the others don’t, they have been playing in the same system.
At some point, there has to be some responsibility placed on the players to find the back of the net, especially those who have been playing in the “system”. I’m no huge fan of Murray’s but using year over year goal statistics to prove that his system is at fault leaves enough room from a math major to do a thesis.
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
@Lexigirl, “Point in case, Kopitar, Brown and Williams have been playing in Murray’s “system” for a number of years, yet their production is off so far as well.”
Kopitar average for his career per 82 games: 29 goals and 46 assists (75 points). Kopitar project numbers for 82 games this year 36 goals and 50 assists (86 points)
Brown’s average for his career per 82 games: 22 goals and 27 assist (49 points). Brown’s projected numbers for 82 games this year 14 goals and 36 assist (50 points).
In William’s career he has averaged 20 goals and 33 assist (53 points) per 82 games. Under TM’s system (this year) he so far is on a pace for 11 goals and 46 assist (57 points) per 82 games.
All 3 examples you gave about having down years are incorrect.
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Lexigirl Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
@KC23, So if statistics are correct, what is going on with Williams production under TMs system, while it does not affect the other players. I was not giving examples of of why they particular players you picked were incorrect, I was stating that you cannot use statistics like this to predict end of year data for goals with the only variable being the system of the coach. What got lost in my statement was that there are other variables that you didn’t consider or correct for, and I don’t pretend know what all of them are, because we don’t know if any of they have any injury that isn’t disclosed, they are using different equipment, etc. Merely pointing out that you are using statistics in the wrong way to prove a point, not that your point may be incorrect.
-Caution:
-You have now entered the depths of the Terry Murray thought process, so be on the lookout for AWOL candy canes and errant unicorns.
-If you manage to un-strap yourself from the ride and vandalize aspects of the magical tour, you will be rewarded with yet another ride.
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Deadmarsh Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@jess, LoL!
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Not only defensively but TM wants to grind offensively as well. He thinks shooting from everywhere wear down their Ds and chances open up for us. Wow … wonderful … that’s some exciting hockey right there … or not. Well, I guess that’s all he can come up with at this point. But don’t call it a system or a tactics because it’s not. I call it passive thinking or passive strategy. You wait something good happens. That’s the way this coach always thinks. No positive thinking whatsoever especially for offensive side of the game.
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How would you like this team of forwards….Stoll….Purcell….Boyle….Moulson…Kopitar….Frolov…..Brown….Williams….This was our forwards a few years ago..All on one team.Now add Lotki and Richards(free agent)to that list and see how we would be….
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Frolov wasn’t getting it done here the last couple of years. Was he a casualty of the system?…Probably, but he wasn’t producing. Purcell and Moulson would be an upgrade for sure
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neil Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@g smith86, The year that had all those forwards,Frolov was putting up numbers!!!!If we kept all those players(all in their prime now)we would be an amazing team…
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
@g smith86, Frolov went to NY where he was even worse than he was with TM. Now he is out of the NHL all together. Purcell and Moulson were young players and to their credit turned out to be excellent hockey players after they moved on. Pure speculation on whether or not they would of also improved had they stayed with TM.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
@KC23, thank you for summing it up
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g smith86 Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 12:13 am
@g smith86, and this love affair for Frolov…geez! let it go…He was great at puck possession but that’s about it for the last couple of seasons…I always thought he was capable of more
Just saw the new lines. Well, makes me think TM is reading the blog.
I did mention he should put Stoll on the 2nd line (But on the Left, not the Right) and he should let Lokti center the 3rd line. I’ve very happy to see that happen….I think Lokti will shine ans Stolli will benefit from playing with Mike Richards.
BUT HUNTER???? REALLY??? For a guy who’s been in the league 10+ years and is known to have a scoring touch, you would THINK he’d bury ONE of those 2 chances last night! He did have a good game on the boards, for sure. He was intense. I’ll give him credit, but you DON’T put a guy missing grade AAA chances like that on your FIRST LINE!!!
If you’re going to put someone on the first like like Hunter, PUT RICHARDSON THERE! He’s had success with Kopi on the first line before and he’s fresh legs! See, this is where I get them impression that TM sometimes wants to cater to the player rather than the team. I think it’s good he cares about the players so much, and TH was pretty upset at himself last night at missing those chances after playing well, but as the coach, you have to put those feelings aside to make the best decision for the team.
I certainly don’t agree TH on the first line is the right decision. Richardson is better qualified and fresh. TM gets the paychecks though, I’m just a fan.
*sigh*
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puck73 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Cynic, Hunter has at least shown he can score goals in his career, Moreau has not shown that.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@puck73, Moreau is not playing anywhere near the guy I remember…maybe he is too old or has lost a step, but he used to create havick along the boards, around the net, and in the corners. I just haven’t seen enough of that from him. It’s not about scoring with him…I’m not expecting 20 goals from him, but a few would be nice
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
@g smith86, to that point I would add that the Kings do not spend enough time in the zone for havick to materialize
Cynic Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
@puck73, My fear is…what is he showing us NOW when it matters. The first scoring opportunity from last night, he just wasn’t ready for that pass (And should have been). The 2nd one, there is NO excuse for a player of his experience and ability. Trent know it. He showed that frustration last night. I feel for Trent, don’t get me wrong, but dude has to finish in this league. TM is giving him an unreal chance to redeem himself. I still don’t believe it.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Cynic, It’s not the player(s) he’s afraid of embarrassing,…It’s the guy who signed them
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Cynic Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@g smith86, If I was drinking soda when I read this, it would have come out my nose.
LOL!
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bitter Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@Cynic, At least coaches get paid to be frustrated, we fans do it for free.
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jess Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
@Cynic,
Now I don’t know the game nearly as well as many on here, but the following line shakeup makes some sense to me IMHO: (If I’m wrong, let me have it!!)
Brown-Kopi-Richardson
Gagne-Richards-Williams
Stoll-Lokti-Lewis
Cliffor-Fraser-Westgarth
Note: Hunter and Moreau are riding pine.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@jess, I like it…at least try it for a while…nothing else is working. Also, that will happen soon enough anyway
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Cynic Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@jess, Interesting. I like Gags with Kopi as that has been working all along, so I’d probably keep those intact, but I see what you did.
I’d probably shift your LWs like this:
Gagne
Stoll
Brown
and leave Cliffy on the 4th line. I think Brown could be more aggressive with a defensive forward like Lewis on his line. Brown falls down a lot and he needs a guy to cover for him when it happens.I think Stoll is the one forward who needs to play with Richards right now to fix his game. Besides, those to on the same line almost insure faceoff possession on their shifts.
I think the best part is your note….
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jess Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@Cynic, Those seem to be very valid points, and regarding the faceoff possesions, that is also key. -And thank you about my note, -only operating from common sense on that one.
KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@jess, You got Brown and Richardson reversed, but I think it looks okay. My lines would be:
Stoll – Kopitar – Brown
Gagne – Richards – Willams
Penner – Loktionov – Richardson
Clifford – Fraser – Westgarth
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jess Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@KC23, These seem viable too, except I would have to put my faith back in pens but hey, -you never know, at this point hope is all we have I suppose.
Bkrs-Bud Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@KC23, I like your lines,But i still feel D.L.needs to find a way to bring in a top 6 L.W. i wonder how long it is going to take to fill that hole?
kingkrazy Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
@jess, Agreed. Those lines look pretty good to me.
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I love that TM idolizes other teams. He always talks about how well coached they are….
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puck73 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@Kevin, lol
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Hail Kings fans!!
The Kings beat themselves last night. The M.O. was the same as it has been for the last several games. Play hockey for 30-35 minutes, and chase the other team and stick check and poke check your way through your shift. No hard checks, no nothing. And then in the 3rd period change the lines and wish for a break. Wish in one hand and ____ in the other. You know which hand will fill up faster.
The Kings have five or six forwards of top six quality. After that they have two or three has-beens, two or three with “stone hands” and one or two who are just fill ins and not of NHL quality. All of us know who these bottom eight forwards are. Penner should be released. He has taken the Kings for a ride just like JR did a few years ago!!
Look at the 3rd line now. What was wrong with Moulson, Boyle, and Purcell of a few years ago???
The “umbrella” PP formation needs to be scrubbed. Kompon needs to be scrubbed.
Last night the Hawks had several takeaways in the neutral zone and passed at will in the offensive zone. No intensity and passion from the Kings. There are problems in the room with the players and/or coaches. Someone has to step forward and straighten this out, and fast.
The “waltz” of the lines continues and is not the root cause of the Kings problems.
GKG.
Goldentoe
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@Martin Hoffmann, evidence that a regime change is in order…cause we can’t get rid of all the players
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I’m just chiming in here w/o having read most of the other comments yet. But a few thoughts that I have:
1) I did watch the highlights on nhl.com and unless they were edited by someone in chic or a hawks fan in ny, it seemed that 75% of the highlights were hawks taking shots on quick. In all honesty I didn’t see these four or five excellent looks that TM says they had. I’m not saying they didn’t happen…. everyone says Hunter missed empty nets, so I assume that did happen.
2) In thinking about the structure of the Kings, some teams have one, two or three players where you give them 2 or 3 chances and they’re gonna bury one. A lot of players on the Kings (see Brownie, Cliffy, and for sure a few others) need it seems 5 or 6 good chances before they score. I may be off in my scientific breakdown here – no stats to use as evidence… but if that weren’t the case then for sure they’d be scoring more than about 1.7 goals per game. And as in the games vs the best competition (Det, Chic) one goal a game. Two per game vs SJ, Vanc, Pitts, but those teams are good teams. If you can hold them to one you’re in business. Problem is, not that many teams in the nhl can hold them to one goal against on a regular basis.
3) I don’t know what three is so feel free to fill it in for me. Well one poster suggested that the Kings are ‘thinking’ out there too much, and I do wonder if thats also a possibility. To be creative, over thinking doesn’t really help the process.
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In all fairness to TM…didnt Gagne sign here and commented that he knew how to play under his system…..I beleive that TM has thought that he would get more. scoring from the upgrade(Gagne and Richards)and stressed even more defense this year.I also believe that TM thought it was a moral victory holding Chi to two goals yesterday….
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KC23 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@neil,
In Gagne’s career he has averaged 31 goals and 32 assist (63 points) per 82 games. Under TM this year he is on a pace for 27 goals and 27 assists (54 points) in 82 games.
In Richard’s career he has averaged 25 goals and 39 assist (64 points) per 82 games. Under TM this year he is on a pace for 36 goals and 32 assists (68 points) per 82 games.
Between the two players a 7 point drop off in an 82 game situation. No biggy imho.
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Osaka Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@KC23, You can’t use facts and logic, they have no place here.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
@Osaka, OK so what then? Keep struggling along at this pace hoping to get the offense going and still pretend to be this defensive juggernaut when we all know it is good goaltending that is making them look good…Tell me then…keep up the good work Terry and Dean…hey,,Terry and Dean sounds like a new comedy duo down at the Laugh Factory in Hollywood
colo king fan Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@neil,
It was a moral victory.. too bad only real victories get you two points.
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In 1991, when Mike Hargrove took over as manager, the Cleveland Indians were a woeful 7th place team. By 1995, they had become a first place team which went to the World Series. They finished first every year thereafter under Hargrove. They went to the World Series again in 1997.
By the end of the decade, the fans had turned on Hargrove. They found him “unemotional.” They said he lacked “charisma,” and he was not “exciting.” A man like that, argued the fans, could only take the team to the playoffs but would never win.
So after playoff appearances for five straight years under Hargrove, the Indians fired him. In the 12 years since his dismissal, the Indians have returned to the playoffs exactly twice.
You don’t need an emotional, charismatic coach to make the playoffs. Coach Murray is an excellent coach and has led the Kings to some of their best seasons in memory.
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fridgemagnet57 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@Hadley,
I’d agree if I saw consistent President trophies and 2 more appearances in the SCF. These two coaches have not accomplished the same thing with those respective teams.
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Pesus Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
@Hadley,
I’d say no cap in baseball hurts the indians more than hargrove. Hard to compete when the yanks and red sox can buy rings.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:52 pm
@Hadley, I would love some of your Koolaid
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Hadley Reply:
November 28th, 2011 at 3:40 am
@g smith86, Actually they’re funny white pills with “Rorer 714″ stamped on them. I thought it had something to do with Babe Ruth, but I’m not sure.
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Anybody remember last year when Kopi went on a huge scoring drought? Get ready for de ja vu.
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:53 pm
@PP Anybody?, has that look doesn’t it?
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there is absolutely no reason for Moreau/Westgarth to be in the lineup. Richardson/Fraser/Lewis is a far better line than Moreau/Fraser/Westgarth and it’s not even close. TM does realize he needs to score goals, no? and with all the line changing going on it would be nice to have a 4th line with some flexibility.
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Dave Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
@Dave, and btw, does it not smack of desperation to make wholesale changes on your lines to get a rookie going and to put a training camp non-roster player on your first line?
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Bench Moreau, suit up Richardson. Put Gags and Richards together. Don’t demote JWill to the third line or his slump might never end.
These changes reek of desperation.
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I must admit, I have been rooting for TH since training camp. For someone to make the team on a tryout says a lot more than the guy with the multi million dollar contract. I felt bad on those two shots, as he did play an excellent game. Moreau, on the other hand, I am not so sure about. I would rather see Richardson, with KW and TL alternating. DB concerns me. It seems to take awhile for him to settle in on a line, and once he does, the lines change. And for everyone who early in the season was begging for Lokti, the Savior from Manchester, well, he hasn’t shown much. Lets hope the move to center helps him.
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-And for the next dish, horseradish served atop mint ice cream…
Compliments of the chef / coach…
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Let’s look at cold hard facts: The Kings are an under 500 team. You’ve spent a huge amount of money in putting together a very impressive team on paper. They’re underperforming. You have 1 of 2 choices. Either keep trading players, or recognize a coaching shakeup is in order. I think the answer is obvious.
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Where is Jacques Lamaire when you need him….
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g smith86 Reply:
November 27th, 2011 at 11:54 pm
@BringbackButchGoring, that was a joke, right?
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So all Murray got out of last nights game was shoot more? He didnt notice how they skated circles around us with the puck and got scoring chances out of there cycle. Didnt see that I guess.
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Pfft! Sounded like the long version of “shot mentality” to me.
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I like this when Penner gets back, assuming he can keep up with the speed of play once fully healthy:
Penner – Kopitar – Brown
Gagne – Richards – Stoll
Richardson – Loktionov – Williams
Clifford – Fraser – Lewis/Hunter/Westgarth
Doughty – Mitchell
Johnson – Scuderi
Voynov – Greene
Quick
Bernier
Once Martinez is cleared, I’d rotate him into the lineup to give guys some rest during the season. Waive Drewiske, if he clears, down to Manchester. I’d like to see Jordan Nolan get a crack at Clifford’s job too.
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I wish the Kings would fire TM and hire Paul Maurice or Bruce Boudreau
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