So often in the NHL, winning — particularly on offense — is attributed in large part to how much success a team’s third line can generate. In the Kings’ case, that’s bad news. Their top two lines, centered by Anze Kopitar and Mike Richards, respectively, can generally compare favorably against any team’s top two lines, but it’s the third line where things drop off dramatically for the Kings. Jarret Stoll, who totaled 20 goals and 23 assists last season, has only one goal and five assists in 22 games this season. His wingers aren’t contributing much either. The current pair, Kyle Clifford and Trent Hunter, has combined for one goal and four assists. Players such as Dustin Penner, Scott Parse, Brad Richardson and Ethan Moreau also didn’t show much in a third-line role. In Terry Murray’s view, though, it starts with the center. Stoll was expected to thrive when he moved from a second-line role to a third-line role, but so far the stats haven’t come, as Murray bluntly made it clear when asked about Stoll’s point numbers this season…
MURRAY: “What numbers? The role, it doesn’t change that much, to me. When you take a look at the way that a lot of teams are built in the NHL right now, they’re going more to the three-line look, and having a fourth line that can give you that grinding, hard game. To me, with our setup right now, we’ve got Kopitar and Richards, and with Stolly we have players who can shoot, can score, are not designated as checkers, per se. In games one through 22, I go back through those games and look at Kopitar and Richards. They end up playing against top lines in almost every one of those games. So I’m not just putting Stoll’s line into a situation of being the line against their top opposition. So they opportunity to play the game has not changed. His look, his role, has not change. Everybody, we need them to be responsible on the checking side of it. We want them to get the puck when we don’t have it and get back on the attack and create in the offensive zone. Numbers just have not fallen in place for us on that line, with that balance that we’re looking for and that depth we need to get on our hockey club in order to become a good hockey club on a consistent basis.’’
Question: How much of it is also finding the right wingers?
MURRAY: “I’ve always put the responsibility on the center iceman to make the wingers better. That is, to me, a job description that I’ve always kind of tagged the center iceman with. `We want the puck in your hands. We want it on your stick on breakouts. You’re the key guy, in the middle of the ice, to be available and to create something on the attack.’ That’s just what we need to get from that line. I think there’s size, there’s speed. Stolly is a shooter. Hunter is a shooter. We’ve got Cliffy on the left side, who is a puck-pursuit guy. He can recover pucks in the offensive zone, and he’s really good with net presence whenever we do get possession of the puck, with Stoll as a shooter. So we just need to get some results out of it. We need a better shot mentality, as a group. We’ve always talked about that. That still is a need that we talk about in our meetings. If we just start with that, and have people at the net, I think good things will start to happen with it.’’
Trade Doughty for a couple of 3rd liners
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@TheZamboniMechanic2,
Maybe if they throw in kopitar a few 4th liners will come this way also
[Reply]
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@FKA PakiFro, Explain to me how in the world you put DD and Kopi on the same level, minus cost
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AZ King Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
@Bama Kings,
You’re absolutely right…DD’s won a gold medal (and was a big part of that team), has been nominated for a Norris Trophy, and hasn;t even reached his 22nd birthday yet.
Kopi on the other hand has won…..
prosmar Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
@AZ King Reply:
And this has absolutely nothing to do with DD being from Canada and Kopi being from Slovenia. If Kopi was good enough he could win an olympic gold medal too right?
Not to mention DD had only one good season and Kopi has never had a bad season…
AZ King Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@prosmar,
I love Kopi, but he has never lived up to his potential. You say he has never had a bad season, we’ll he’s never had a great season either. At least we’ve seen what Doughty has the potential to do. How many years have we been waiting for Kopi to have a break out year?
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@prosmar, With all do respect, who has Kopi had to play with? This is a defensive team and DD can’t stop turning over the puck. I get it, he may be good one day, even great. Right now, he’s about 4M too much and can’t carry Kopi’s skates.
I also agree that if Kopi was from Canada, he’d have gold.
Poor concepts shared here.
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@TheZamboniMechanic2, I’m telling you, I’ve been saying it for 5 months. We could have traded DD for Vanek (type player). Now we can’t get that cause low and behold, he’s not worth $7M. Who’d-a-thunk-it?
So we move DD and Bernier for a combination of a goal scoring LW and third line pieces we need. If we can dump Penner in there too, great.
Day I got NHL12, I traded DD, Bernier and Penner for Vanek, Pommenville and Enroth. My lines:
Vanek-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Richards-Pomenville
Parse-Stoll-Brown
Lewis-Loktionov-Clifford
JJ-Mitchell
Voynov-A.Mart
Scuds-Greene
Quick
Enroth
I know that trade can’t be made now cause of DD plummeting value, but how good would this team be with that move during the summer and it could have happened.
[Reply]
variable Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:27 pm
@Bama Kings,
i think yr trade ideas are ridiculous for so many reasons…but yr entitled to yr opinion(s)…
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@variable, I can’t tell if you think it’s a fantasy situation or if you think trading DD / Bernier is a bad idea… which?
variable Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
@bama kings…
where to start…???
there’s ample reasoning to state, but i’ll just limit it to the basics…
re: vanek…
sabres won’t trade vanek…period…at least, not at this point in his career…they don’t need defense, the need more offense…if you trade vanek, the sabres would want a player to be at least equal in offensive talent in return and/or they would also be banking on one of their current roster players or minor league prospect to step right in and produce at the level of vanek…neither scenario is true…
re: doughty…
he’s not gonna be traded…period…and especially for thomas vanek…that’s not ever even a remote possibility as long as dl is gm…
re: yr scenario with pommeville, enroth and vanek…
yr words…”fantasy situation”…and that’s putting it very respectively, sir…(!)
Lake Forest Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
@Bama Kings, sorry I was using too much sarcasm with my comment. I just don’t think that you could get that return and I don’t think trading anyone on the defense would be worth it.
We just need our third line to produce. I believe they can and that trading our depth is incorrect.
Bruin18 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@variable, even thinking of trading DD is kind of silly. He is an elite d man and is nowhere near his potential which if probably 2-3 years away. How man d-men have ever done what he has it their first year. Patience guys. Meanwhile a less drastic move would, as many have said, put Loki as third line center with Stoll on wing plus face offs. I don’t think Richards game would suffer even with Richardson LW
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@variable, @everyone
The NHL12 comment wasn’t that I think it’s the same as real life, not at all. That’s why I posted the line-up, simply to show the perceived value of trading our dear DD.
And yes, it’s absolute fantasy right now. 5 months ago, there was plenty of talk about DD being worth a Vanek type player, if not more. Further more, many people on here STILL didn’t like the trade with that return, stating “DD isn’t going anywhere.” That was more my point.
Shea Webber did come into his own at 25 and THAT’S when he was paid, not three years in advance.
And hell yes i”m a kings fan, not a DD fanboy. I care about a cup, not what this kid did in juniors or on team Canada. The kopi = to DD comparisons are baseless. If you’d rather have DD than Kopitar, then the Ducks fan club is stage left, please exit.
We are either a big move away from being a cup contender or a coaching move away. If you’re cool with 98 points, a 8th seed and a 1st round exit, awesome. I’m dying for Bob to have a cup more than anyone else on that team and that isn’t going to happen with this crew.
We’re close, but so far away. Either you make minor tweaks and change the system to fit the talent or you go shopping with the Black AMEX.
Lake Forest Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@Bama Kings, I am embarrased as a kings fan to read your comment from a kings fan.
[Reply]
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@Lake Forest, Why?
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@Lake Forest, I’m extremely curious. Not from an argumentative perspective, but because I’m wondering if you think my idea is ridiculous cause we could never get the return or cause I want that return.
AZ King Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
@Bama Kings,
OMG because it worked in NHL 12 that must mean that it will work in real life too. Give me a break…
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Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@AZ King,
I bought all this property while playing Monopoly and got rich in under an hour. That’s how it works in real lifet too, right?
Kingsfanone Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
@Michael J.,
What? It took you that long?
Hey, can’t you get Gretz and all the former superstars in NHL 12 on the same team? Why can’t the Kings just do that? What’s the hold up?
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@AZ King, See comment directly above this thread. I’m floored by Kings fans sometimes.
California Royalty Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
@Bama Kings, That’s insane…
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Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@Bama Kings,
I really hope that you are being sarcastic.
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Action Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
@Bama Kings,
Come on man. Doughty is going nowhere. If you out a gun to DL’s head and tell him either trade Doughty or you shoot, you better have the stones to pull the trigger because he won’t do it. If you want a fantasy trade situation that is at least in the realm of plausibility, think Bernier+ to NJ for Parise, as kovalchuk’s contract has the devils in salary cap issues, and with Brodeur on the way out, they need to address the long term goaltending concerns. I mean this with all due respect, but for the next couple seasons at least, Doughty is on the untouchable list. Undeniably.
[Reply]
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@Action, Doughty being untouchable may be a reality, I don’t think so. It maybe… I’m just lost as to why. You keep holding onto that dream.
KC23 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@Bama Kings, Lets lighten the mood here folks. Everyone gets to share their opinion as long as it’s respectful. You don’t have to like it, but you do have to respect it according to blog rules.
[Reply]
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@KC23, I don’t think I said anything outside the rules.
DesertKing Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@TheZamboniMechanic2,
No offense but stick with fixing the zamboni. Now trade Kopi and Richards for a couple of 3rd liners and you got yourself a deal
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variable Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@DesertKing,
“trade the players…trade the coach…”
why do some of these guys even root of the kings…???
they don’t seem to like any of our players…
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number 6 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@variable,
Left u a message on the saturday skate thread.
number 6 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@variable,
Just saw that you saw it…..
Duckbasher Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@DesertKing,
I’m with the Mechanic. DL should have traded DD for some proven talent or high draft picks. So far, we’re seeing an even less effective DD as we got last year. Two mediocre seasons in a row for $7m per?? I smell a rat.
[Reply]
Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@Duckbasher, We should have been able to get more, like a 40G scorer.
AZ King Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@Duckbasher,
You do realize that Shea Weber (whom everyone seems to love comparing Doughty too) didn’t come into his own until he was 25 right, and that Doughty hasn’t even reached his 22nd birthday. Oh and he is already considered one of the great young defensmen in the game by people who actually know what they’re talking about.
Bill M. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
@Duckbasher, Stop. just stop. You don’t trade 22 year old homegrown #2 draft picks. period. Unless they are showing severe issues (no, 30th in points instead of 3rd is not a SEVERE issue), you wait until you can see what they have really become before you give up on them, and you can’t see that for 2-3 more years.
I did this analysis at the start of the season. If you compare Doughty now to Weber now, there is little doubt that Weber is better, but it’s a WAY unfair comparison given the difference in maturity levels. If you adjust for the normal development curve of a defenseman, the picture is much different. Doughty is miles ahead. Looking both at where Doughty/Weber were at 21, and projecting Doughty out to 25, so that the comparisons are actually fair, and suddenly Doughty makes Weber look like Joe Corvo.
Patience Grasshopper…
JZarris Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
@TheZamboniMechanic2, Is that you, Barry Melrose?
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@JZarris,
Or Sam McMaster???
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@JZarris,
It’s Bruce McNall.
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Kingsfanone,
Isn’t he still wearing stripes? And, I’m not talking about pinstripes.
Lanny Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@TheZamboniMechanic2, I was hoping the Kings would have moved DD while he was holding out, but now, unfortunately we’re stuck waiting for him to develope. Having said that, DD is not the only one underachieving up to this point, but the season is young.
If it was my call, Murray, like Budreau in Washington, needs to be sent to pasture! I don’t, and never have, liked him as the coach.
And just move Penner already, someone out there will think they can rebuild his game! Put a package together with Penner and something to the Caps for Semin, can’t get any worse, and there is a potential upside. If not, who cares, his contract is up after the season. But heh, what do I know!?
[Reply]
We could always adjust the system to fit the talent rather than the other way around…just a thought.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
@Blueline,
DL has assembled some highly talented forwards. It would be nice to see how they would fare if they were cut loose.
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Räikkönen Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@Duckbasher,
Are you pretending the top 6 isn’t thriving? Those are Terry Murray and Dean Lombardi Philly-type players and they are performing just fine. Kopitar is on pace for almost 90pts. Mike Richards, another Terry Murray-type player, is having a fab season. Gagne looks to be back on track, Williams is piling up the assist totals, and Dustin Brown is on his regular pace.
The pathetic 3 and 4th lines are making it all look bad. Who’s the genius that signed over-the-hill Ethan Moreau? Why is Dean garbage picking the likes of Trent Hunter? You expect these guys to perform? I don’t/ Thank goodness for mid-season trades, let’s hope Dean stops the bleeding. It’s making everything look worse than it actually is.
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dMan Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@Duckbasher, So Richards and Gagne haven’t worked out according to you.
Interesting…
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@dMan,
It makes me wonder why Terry Murray’s “outdated” system works for Richards, Kopitar, Brown, Gagne, Williams, Parse (when healthy), Stoll (see last three years), and Smyth – yet doesn’t work for Penner, Moulson, Poni, Simmonds (some would say), Hunter, Moreau and Stoll (see this year).
Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@Duckbasher,
Ask Moulson, Purcell, Poni, Smyth, and Boyle. They’ve all been “cut loose”.
[Reply]
Räikkönen Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
@Blueline,
This doesn’t make sense.
You mean the 3rd line talent? They produced last season, why can’t Stoll score anymore? He’s playing the same role. Player accountability should be in play in this instance.
[Reply]
listening to TM’s comment wrt to third line doenst give me any confidence that the third line is going to start scoring.Somthing is missing and I really dont know what it is but its been there since the opening of camp.Even before we left for Europe we didnt have IT. Go back and reads the posts from preseason and nothing has changed.We are still looking for a 60 minute game(other then opening L.A> game against a tired St. Louis. team)we havnt even done that yet.I have been a fan for a long time and you can feel it when something is not right….Even when the Kings win its not convincing. We struggled againt the Ducks both games and they are really bad right now…
[Reply]
Bill M. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
@neil, Simmonds. That’s what is missing. I’m happy to have Richards and I’ll make the trade again in a second, but it DOES leave us with a lesser problem that needs to be dealt with before we can really roll our lines and sustain momentum. because THAT is the problem I see. the third line can’t sustain any pressure, thereby handing over any momentum established by our first two lines. How do you steamroll teams in this league? like this:
1st line establishes pressure, cycles, and wears down the defense/goalie with movement.
2nd line sustains pressure, peppers goalie and establishes high shot count.
3rd line and 4th lines sustain pressure and momentum while giving 1st and 2nd lines a rest
1st and 2nd lines go out and attack, rested, against a tired defense.
If the 3rd and/or 4th lines can’t sustain the pressure, then the scoring lines will never get the prime opportunities = rested with momentum against tired defenders. The team will only score goals when the other team has defensive breakdowns. This causes a team to look erratic, like they can’t keep their momentum, and like they can’t score enough goals to put opponents away. Sound familiar?
The lack of pressure from a third line without Simmonds is dragging the otherwise talented offense into the mud. DL surely sees it, and will have to do something.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@neil, TM is clearly not trying to instill confidence, he is calling it as it is. Stoll isn’t doing his. Saying anything else would be ignoring the 800lb gorilla in the corner of the room.
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Are people still complaining about Doughty? Under the intense microscope that everyone has cast on that guy, every tiny mistake is magnified. If we go by all the comments on here, he’s the worst player in the league and all the other teams are crazy to want him. Quick, trade him!
What I really want to know is how an article about Stoll and the offense winds up being about Doughty.
Trade Stoll while other teams still want him. Might as well get something for him.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@Et219,
Very good points wrt Doughty. He’s still an extremely talented player…. and young. He will learn and mature.
Hey, take a look at the stats for Kovalchuk. He has four goals in 16 games. Everyone knows about that contract. Thankfully it’s not the Kings who are paying it.
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@Et219, First comment usually leads the direction, blame him!
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AZ King Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
@Bama Kings,
LOL
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@Et219, Trade Doughty before everyone else realizes what we already know. That he’s not and never will be worth $7m a year.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Duckbasher,
You should really change your name to Doughtybasher. Did you live up to everyone’s expectations when you were 21 years old because I sure didn’t?
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@AZ King, I did. It was awesome. You should have been there…. (no, really…. I did. And by the time I was 25 I owned my first company, now three.)
And at every turn someone paid me what I was worth, not my potential LOL.
Action Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@Duckbasher,
Comments like this usually result in my replies being deleted, so I’ll force myself to be civil and take this comment seriously.
If you were to poll the 29 other GM’s in the league, and ask them which two defencemen they’d choose first to build their team around (present and future considered) Probably half, maybe more would have Doughty in that pair. That isn’t me looking through Doughty-colored glasses, that’s just reality.
[Reply]
Purple Ghost Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@Et219, Agree with your comments. Whether there are any thoughts of trade Stoll or not, or whether there are any takers for him, when Penner / Parse return, Kings will have to decide if they want to try Loktionov in Stoll’s spot. I think that is the long-term idea (Stoll is on the last year of his contract). But, I think it is still an open question if Loktionov is ready or not.
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@Purple Ghost, I think you have to be careful there, losing Stoll. No, not a great year so far, but the return is going to be negligible. If it’s for an NHL player that can play a wing with Lokti, OK maybe. If its for picks, we need to try and win now.
I still cringe at losing Handzus and Smyth (even Poni) and not getting what we needed in return, if anything at all. We lost our size up the middle and our ability to screen. Stoll and Richards are our Face-off guys and let’s not forget Stoll is a solid two-way guy who kill in the SO.
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California Royalty Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
@Et219, Thank you! Finally some one who agrees with me. I love Doughty. The team is better with him in the lineup.
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KC23 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@Et219, I’m not happy with DD at all atm, but I wouldn’t trade him. He’ll come around, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it isn’t this year. He just seems to be in a funk.
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Side note: NJ vs. NYI game… I appreciate Bob and Jim so much after watching this game. Parise, as bad as his luck has been, absolutely kicked that goal in with 2 seconds remaining. The commentators didn’t think so and at one point, said Montoya pushed it in with his glove.
Fairly obvious that there was forward motion on the skate. Had it ben B&J, they would have called it accurately, even if it’s against the Kings.
For all our complaints about the team, there can never be one about Bob Miller and Jim Fox. Love those guys!
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number 6 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@Bama Kings,
Bob Miller is so good that he almost comes in by osmosis if that makes any sense. I mean, he seems to be woven into the fabric of a game.
One thing Jim Fox (I think) said about Bob, is that you always can sense where the puck is in relation to a real scoring chance. There are other broadcasters where you’d think a shot from the half boards is like an uncontested shot from five feet out in front of the goalie. It does get wearing after a while to keep hearing that sort of thing.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
@number 6, Well said. Bob’s voice inflection is so consistent you just know what he thinks the chances are of any play just by his tone. Bob is a bit more forgetful than he used to be, but he’s still better than virtually all the others. With gamecenter, I’ve listened to them all. Fox is one of the better color guys, but I actually think the King’s Daryl Evans is the best in the business.
[Reply]
So let me understand this: Terry Murray puts the onus on Stoll for teh wingers he’s with for not performing and even kind of backhands him with the ‘What Numbers?’ comment, yet you have a perfectly capable center in Loktionov playing LW, which with Stoll’s speed he could play…
….but you won’t make any line changes.
No I personally don’t like line changes too often as I like chemistry to build and I applaud TM for doing just that with the top 6. I believe it will pay off. BUT your 3rd & 4th lines are by design the ones you want to tinker with based on matchups with the other team’s top lines when you play them, unless of course your 3rd line is a scoring powerhouse, which is not a problem we have right now.
If Stoll is a shooter, then put him in a better position to score by playing him with Richards and let Lokti try centering the third line. I know that goes against the ‘Lokti has to play a top 6 role to perform well’ mentality, but in the games I’ve seen him play, I’ve seen a heavier player that actually that get involved more in board battles and digs out pucks. He still makes bad reads occasionally (Which I’ve mentioned previously), but I think he could actually handle 3rd line duty from what I have seen lately.
Just a thought.
[Reply]
neil Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@Cynic, Its Stoll,s fault that we have 6 forwards looking for their first goal of the year.
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number 6 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@neil,
Isn’t it?
…………………………………… just joking.
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Räikkönen Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
@Cynic,
…and if it doesn’t work? We’ll be back to square 1. Keep Lokti on the 2nd line, he doesn’t deserve to be demoted. And he compliments Mike Richards really well.
[Reply]
variable Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@Cynic,
very good points…
stoll has played in every situation on this team since he’s been here…why wouldn’t he be able to adapt to a different role yet again if he can’t produce in his current one…?…i agree that it’s time to shake things up with the bottom six…and that doesn’t automatically mean you bury stolly – to yr point, you put him in “shoot mentality” situations and make that his priority rather than having him shouldering the other responsibilities of being the center…maybe that’s what stoll needs to jump start his scoring…
and i don’t see why lokti shouldn’t get a chance to have his own line at this point…
even if he doesn’t play in every situation right of the bat, he could infuse creativity on a line which hasn’t shown much of anything the whole season thus far…i agree….it’s time to make the move…
it’s not like tm can’t go back…or won’t…if it doesn’t click…
[Reply]
Cynic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
@variable, You’re right about Lokti’s creativity possibly giving a new dimension to the 3rd line if he’s centering it. TM can always go back. I think Clifford would benefit the most from having a more creative center. Now if you made the line:
Clifford-Loktionov-Richardson
I think that line could do a lot of damage.
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@Cynic,
TM certainly wouldn’t blame himself, correct? Gotta blame Stoll, who else’s problem could it possibly be?
I would hesitate calling out players in the media, especially if I want them to play for me. It’s me and the players against everybody else, especially media, if I want them backing me up and playing for me. If he’s not talking to Stoll about it, he’s creating a psychological hole he won’t like. Neither will his players.
[Reply]
dMan Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@Cynic, not a bad idea, but Stoll is a great face-off guy.
[Reply]
Cynic Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
@dMan, All the more reason to play him with Richards. If Richards gets kicked out of the face-off circle, guess who steps in.
Not to mention Stoll can take the face-off on both sides of the ice effectively. Let Richards take them off his forehand and let Stoll have the other side. That would dramatically increase our chances of keeping possession on the 2nd line. Right?
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Murray has completely lost touch with reality. Guys like Richardson and Lewis should be skating on the third line with Stoll over plugs like Moreau and Hunter.
It baffles me that Murray is playing these guys in favor of Lewis and Richardson. Not to admonish Lewis and Richardson of their lack of production this season, but they’re both relatively young, fast skaters, and have proven capable of creating some offense. Moreau was the worst player on one of the worst teams last season that NO ONE wanted to throw a contract at, and now he’s a pivotal top nine forward? Huh? Trent Hunter doesn’t get a contract offer from a single team, is signed to a pro try out, and he’s expected to play a scoring role? What?
With Fraser in the lineup, there is no reason the third line should not be Richardson-Stoll-Lewis. That is three natural centermen, all capable of taking draws, and all of whom have experience on the wings. Lewis played well on RW last season, and Richardson has proven he can play any forward role. Put the Moreaus and Hunters on the fourth line, send them out to bang people around, and leave it at that. This is insanity. Richardson-Stoll-Lewis is a CLEARLY synergistic line that hasn’t even been tried once.
How Murray hasn’t come to this conclusion is shocking.
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dMan Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
@aegwillnotwinthecup, You have to love Richardson and Lewis’ speed, problems is, they’re not great at recovering loose pucks in corners; Moreau and Hunter, though slower, are better along the boards and play a “heavier” game. They can wear down the opposition more than Richardson and Lewis who don’t check as hard and can’t keep the puck along the boards as well as Hunter and Moreau.
And I’m a big fan of Richardson; love the guy’s energy and attitude.
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Mikey Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@aegwillnotwinthecup,
WIN
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vicarious Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@aegwillnotwinthecup, I understand the comments but in fact Richardson and Lewis have not been producing points either. Both have generated some chances but have not finished. Richardson, IMO, brings more speed but is less defensively sound than the other options. Lewis I expected to continue to improve and to generate some points, which so far he has not.
At the 1/4 pole, IMO last year’s team was better than this year’s team. Curious because most of the team is the same. We basically traded Smythe for Gagne and Richards for Handzus. (and I guess Poni for Moreua\Hunter). You’d think the team would be upgraded. But I think last year’s squad was better than this one, at least through the first part of the season.
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Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
@vicarious,
No team-deflating holdout last year. Not everyone is a “team player”, most noticably a young, mistake-prone defenseman with a huge contract.
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colo king fan Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
@vicarious,
Last years team posted a +.700 winning pct in October too. This one didn’t start out as hot but with personnel changes like the Kings have made, plus the long road trip to start the year that’s to be expected. Chemistry will only improve as the season goes along, which is what I think is holding them back a little bit.. anyway, its not like they’re sub-par – they’re only a point out of first in the division; and only 4 points behind NHL leading Pittsburgh. I think we all expect so much this year that it feels as if it’s not good enough, when it probably is.
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Bama Kings Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@aegwillnotwinthecup, Now there is a logical comment. Holy crap, we found one.
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GOING TO THE GAME TONIGHT GO KINGS GO
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I am with you one thousand percent. I just don’t get what TM is doing with the bottom 6. Blows me away that he’s got Norway and Hunter playing in place of Richardson and Lewis. Because of the speed that that line could generate, would alone in itself make it a threatening line.
And I’m sorry but Lokti needs to get off the second line. He’s done nothing but turn over the puck since he’s got here. I’m almost in favor of having Penner back on that line instead. I did say almost…
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PuckNutz19 Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
@PuckNutz19, err, that’s Moreau, not Norway. Dang auto spell check…
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Gotta say I miss Simmonds board and grit play. just watched him take on Prust and hold his own. He lost the fight, but hung in there well.
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Michael J. Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
@src,
I think the team misses him too, but not nearly as much as they are glad to have Richards.
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If Moreau comes out on the ice with a section of the bench strapped to his behind then I’ll know at least Murray tried and Moreau just really wants to play.
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colo king fan Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@jess,
Well at least if he had a section of bench strapped to him, he’d have an excuse for taking a lazy penalty that costs the Kings a point. Yeah, I’m not letting that Dallas game go for a while…
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At the game tonight. Bad track record recently against the hawks, and they are good right now. Here’s hoping we can steal these two points tonight because they would be huge!
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jess Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
@Bill M.,
Well, good news. I bought a book on witch craft -and if everything works out the way I think it will, A giant hand will come in through the roof at Staples Center and physically pick up Stoll and move him about 10ft. closer to net, at which point he should have some decent scoring chances.
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colo king fan Reply:
November 26th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Bill M.,
Moreau takes a stupid penalty that leads to a goal, Kings lose 2-1. Just my gut feeling.
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When Penner returns they should keep Loktionov up and let him play the second line and put Penner on with Stoll and Lewis
Penner-Stoll-Parse
For now:
Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
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Stoll on Murray “what offensive coaching?”
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