As noted earlier, the Kings shifted things around a bit today on the third and fourth lines, with Trent Hunter joining Kyle Clifford and Jarret Stoll on the third line, and with Kevin Westgarth joining Ethan Moreau and Colin Fraser on the fourth line. For now, that leaves Trevor Lewis and Brad Richardson, both of whom have been struggling offensively, on the outside, but Terry Murray said he hadn’t decided whether to stay with that look tomorrow in St. Louis.
MURRAY: “I don’t know what I’m doing there yet. I don’t know. I put it together for practice, to take a look at things, but I don’t know yet, what I’m eventually going to get to.’’
And here’s what Murray said about Lewis and Richardson, two players who would seem to be in a similar situation right now. They’re versatile players, well-regarded for their work but both struggling to score.
MURRAY: “I think the offensive part of the game, it can happen. They can score some big goals at critical times of the. Going back to Detroit, or back to the playoffs last year, usually your top two lines are going to neutralize each other over the course of a game or a series. That’s where your other players have to step up and take advantage of the opportunity to contribute, big time. And they did that in the playoffs last year. They did a good job. Right now, they’ve been getting some looks, especially Richardson, and haven’t been able to find the back of the net. He has a resume of being able to score, as does Lewis. It’s not there right now. We’ve gone through 20 games, and no goals.
“That being said, they need to be better in other areas of the ice, though. They’ve got to be better in that dot-to-board game, recovering pucks, harder on the puck and stronger plays whenever they do have it. If the puck is not going into the net, then they have to find a way to make a difference in the game by doing all the other stuff that’s critical to playing the game the right way, playing it hard and determined. There needs to be a little bit of improvement in that area, quite frankly.”
I don’t think the 3rd and 4th lines have found any chemistry so far this season. I do think this is an area in which we miss Simmonds. I think we miss that speed and simplcity. He was a spark plug and had time to find chemistry with both Richardson and Clifford.
It looks like Cliffy has taken a bit of step backwards so far. Not sure why but he looks less confident with the puck.
I think both Hunter and Moreau are both slower than Simmonds was and might not click well with a guy like Richardson. Lewis is plenty fast but also seems to have taken a step backwards so far.
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DanD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@bitter, Zeus & Simmer are surely missed. Combined for 30 goals last year. Need some of the lower line guys to step up, capitalize on their opportunities.
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:56 pm
@DanD,
Need to try some new options there…
I smell a trade coming.
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USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
I think its gonna take two years to recover from this mess. The bottom six has become a train wreck of cast offs. What happened to “build from within”? Oh, I know, Lombardi gave away the building blocks.
And trade who? Moreau? Hunter? Fraser? Lewis? Richardson? For who? Bret Hall coming out of retirement?
Oh yeah, Penner. Opps…Penner…already gave up a NHL ready defenseman a #1 and #2—-See the irony? Bathroom humor; Penner = #1 & #2
Looks like Lombardi jumped the gun on trades…
And bring in who? Modano? Howe?
USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:25 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
A second thought…Voyonov is pretty good…package Martinez, Penner and Moreau
Ben Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:53 pm
@bitter, It’s kind of difficult to find chemistry when you don’t play with the same guys on a consistent basis. TM’s juggling act is stale and proven itself to be effective only once this year. So tired of it. Not paying my hard earned money to watch our boys lose because of it.
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dot972005 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@Ben, yes i agree. I love TM. dont ge me wrong. I just think he’s like a player sometimes. where he tries to do too much. Let the guys play with the same players. Richardson has had some bad luck and looks like he’s got too much pressure on him to score. holding the stick a little tight. But he’s on a line with clifford, oh wait, parse, oh wait, hunter, oh wait etc…I play hockey and can’t stand playing with new players. Its hard to know what each player does right away. and in fact, you can’t! so TM just leave the damn lines alone unless someone is hurt. As for Richardson and Lewis, those are 2 great penalty killers. quit putting F’n kopitar and Richards on the PK. we need to kill them, not score on them. STOP!!!!!!! And leave westgarth out of the lineup. he is horrible. if we need to bulk up, then we’re not trying to win. STOP putting him in TM! he’s garbage
Go Kings
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USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:22 pm
@dot972005,
I’ve played and coached…this is a top to bottom program…Coaching screwing up the top and both coaching and management screwing up the bottom
nykingfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm
@Ben,
How was it effective only once?
which time was that?
So basically…you feel that players who haven’t scored a goal in 20 games should be able to remain together on a line indefinitely….
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@nykingfan, – That’s the point… they haven’t played together for 20 games. As soon as the Kings lose Murray knee jerks and switches players. So we lose to Detroit. A team that was in desperation mode. It was a saturday day game (we always lose those). I think the players are afraid to make mistakes so they play it safe too much. LET OUR PLAYERS PLAY! Quit calling guys out in the press TM!
Seano Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 9:47 am
@Ben, MURRAY: “I don’t know what I’m doing there yet.” Yes, we know.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:04 pm
Take two of the fastest guys out of the line up. Sounds good to me. /sarcasm
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USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@bitter,
Pretty hard to do much when Clifford is the first (and only) forward in, digs out pucks and rarely sees support or return passes.
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Gokings Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@bitter, Get rid of Lokti on 2nd line. Scratch him, move richie up with richards and brown. Speed and simplicity on the wings. 3rd line looks good. 4 th line Lewis fraser Moreau.
Willi-Kopi-gags
Richie-Richards-brown
Hunter-stoll-Clifford
Lewis-fraser-Moreau/westie
Too easy. when I get TMs job I’ll have this turned around
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crashin'da net Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Gokings, I like it but would move Richardson up and Gagne down a line.
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Definitely need to see more production from the 3rd & 4th lines. The system is working. Generating 30+ shots on goal in I believe 6 of last 7 games. 3rd & 4th line guys need to find a way to get the puck in the back of the net. They are getting the shots, which is good, but they have to find a way to beat the goaltender. Nobody is expecting them to score 30 goals, but 10-15 goals per season from the 3rd line guys will do this team so much good.
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Pesus Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@DanD,
System is working? Even the TM supporters are saying that the system is not working. I can care less about shots per game. Goals per game is what counts. The question on this blog is who is to blame. Murray or the players. To be honest I dont care who is to blame, bottom line is its not working and a change is needed if this team want to make the playoffs.
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DanD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:14 pm
@Pesus, You are obviously one who is not a TM supporter based on your opinions. You can’t score goals unless you take shots. You need that center lane drive, and frankly, the Kings don’t do enough of it. Top lines are producing, bottom lines are doing nothing on the offensive side of the puck. You can’t blame the coach because certain guys just can’t finish.
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USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:07 pm
@DanD,
The majority of the Kings shots are from the outside of the circles. Most goals come from pucks that are shot from 5-15′ out…not too many Kings shots from there (that are on net).
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DanD Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@USHA#17, It’s called driving to the net, and not being afraid of punishment taken to get there. MOST goals, come from rebounds pounced on by driving to the net. There is no drive to the net.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@DanD, too many low percentage shots from near the blue line with no net presence. Also, for the life of me I can’t understand why we shoot wide so often. Stoll can thread a needle in shootouts, but can’t hit the broadside of a barn 5 on 5 or on the PP. What the heck?
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if they don’t get it done, a trade will be in order.
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Weasel Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Yuri,
We have enviable depth, but somehow except for possibly creating a orster spot for VV I don’t seen why we’d try to make a trade right now as opposed to waiting for the trade deadline and using that depth to acuire a veteran scorer, etc.
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Puckn-A Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:31 pm
@Weasel, Like Penner???
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Perro Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@Yuri, We can wait to the deadline though. No need to rush it.
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MURRAY: “I don’t know what I’m doing there yet. I don’t know. I put it together for practice, to take a look at things, but I don’t know yet, what I’m eventually going to get to.’’. —–pretty much sums up his 3 years here.
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Although I agree that 3rd and 4th line needs to generate more offense, I wouldn’t place the blame on Richardson and Lewis alone.
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kingkrazy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@RH63, Agreed. I don’t think everyone has been putting their best effort into games.
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nykingfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@RH63,
It’s a team game..but you have to score a goal every once in a blue moon.
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RH63 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@nykingfan,
And I agree. So, let’s bench Clifford and Stoll once in awhile. Richie and Lewis may not have produced much but they’ve played well for the most part.
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Harty Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@RH63, bench Clifford for his hustle, he is mostly 1st in the end to recover pucks, look at the backcheck job on the 2nd wing goal, his butt was coming hard to catch up to take away the pass…….
many others need to ride the pine prior to Clifford,
nykingfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@RH63,
With no goals..none of them have played well!
Stoll at least wins faceoffs (sometimes) Lewis hasn’t won a faceoff since last year.
Both Lewis and Richardson kill penalties well. Do you need both in the lineup together? they seem to be mirroring each other.
To me benching all of them is warranted. Unfortunately you can’t bench them all.
Resedakingsfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@nykingfan, I agree, but Stoll, Hunter, Moreau, and Westy haven’t scored either, and I think Cliffy has only scored one goal. At least Richie and Lewis are excellent on the PK, and both bring a lot of speed.
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nykingfan Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 4:54 am
@Resedakingsfan,
they all bring something but the one thing they all have in common is they all bring nothing offensively!
jason Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@RH63, on the D side, richardson has been caught a few times
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@RH63, Agree… but you watch, Richardson will get traded and become a 20+ guy for any other team in the league.
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Sounds like Murray doesn’t have a clue… a trade is brewing and who and what are we going to give up for Jeff Carter?
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@kngfan004, I say we ask Lombardi to consider making Murray part of any trade. Because no matter what proven scorer we trade for, his production will go down. I wonder if a coach has ever been traded before?
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neil Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@Duckbasher, in Baseball a general manager has been traded……just this year.
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neil Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@neil, and manager.. Guilen???
I consider myself pretty neutral on TM, but the one thing I’ve noticed is his tendency to give certain players a pass when they don’t deserve it (Moreau, Stoll, Clifford).
I am especially frustrated at Stoll’s pass not only from the coach, but the fans as well. What is it that gets this guy a spot on the PP. Certainly its not his history of being even an average PP guy. I’ve never seen him even approach average, yet time and time again out he goes whiffing on one timers on the weak side, losing control of the puck along the boards or sending slap shots wide and high bouncing of the glass and back out to center.
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Tommy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@KC23, I think murray should pull hunter and add richards. as far as the 4th we need that grit because obviously clifford can’t handle ryan reaves nor we he stand a chance come saturday vs john scott.
I think its westgarths time to play he is a warrior and at practices you can see how bad he wants it he just isnt getting the chances to play. and i agree with you KC23
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
@Tommy, Westgarth should only play in practice. Or even better…a pick-up league somewhere in Orange County. His only contributions since taking over the heavy spot is to do those staged fights. Completely worthless. He’s one of our players that no one else would want. Not even cellar dwellars.
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SpencerMaze Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:07 pm
@KC23, Yea I have to agree with you on Stoll. He is obviously struggling beyond belief and there’s really no good reason why he’s out on the PP. Not sure what’s going on with him but he’s there’s got to be something distracting him this year.
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TheCrazyWhls Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@KC23, I could be wrong but Stoll gets the pass because of his face-off ability. His one timers are slightly…slightly getting better. I don’t get why Hunter is getting a pass. Makes my head hurt trying to figure out why…heh
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KC23 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm
@TheCrazyWhls, I’ve seen one good play from Stoll this season on the PP. Just recently on Voynov’s PP goal against the Ducks. Instead of his usual absurdly inaccurate slap shot from the middle point position, he threw in a hard wrist shot that got by the first wave of defenders and deflected over to Gagne who crossed iced it to Voynov. Why he doesn’t use that accurate wrist shot instead of his bogus slap shot all the time is beyond me.
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TheCrazyWhls Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:39 pm
@KC23, I’ve often wondered why on the PP he doesn’t just use the shot he uses in the shootouts, you know, his laser-beam shot. He always shoots from the center anyways so why not try it? heh His slap shot is at least slightly more directed at the net though lately..heh, no?
KingsFanFTW Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@TheCrazyWhls, He doesnt giv eHunter a free pass if u notice he never in the lineup soo i dont get where u saying he gets a free pass.whi gets a free pass all the time is Moreau
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm
@KingsFanFTW, change Whi to Who
TheCrazyWhls Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:46 pm
@KingsFanFTW, Hunter had been in the last few games except the last three. He’d been taking Westgarth’s spot. If we go with the lines in today’s practice he’ll be playing tomorrow on our third line. You haven’t noticed him because he rarely does much. I’d have gone with Richie/Stoll/Clifford. A fast, hard hitting line.
Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@TheCrazyWhls, Hunter is one of the guys who has NOT gotten a pass. He’s been sitting quite regularly.
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dMan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@KC23, Stoll is a great face-off guy, good energy, great defensively and pretty damn good at the shoot-out.
It is frustrating to see him continually shoot wide on the PP, but you gotta take the bad with the good.
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dcaps55 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@KC23, I agree, with Alec coming back and VV staying up (hopefully – he deserves it, send a forward down if need be), we’ve got two sets of offensive minded D. Let Williams play forward on the 2nd power play unit…
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dot972005 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@KC23, once again, i agree. Stoll is so underachieving. But to be honest, i think the whole PP can be so much better. How? by these over confident A-holes just shooting the damn puck and putting in the rebounds. Time and time again, i see richards forcing a pass through 3 Penalty killers and it stopped and cleared. Kopi too. drew spinning around at the blueline, then shoving a weak backhand pass down low, that gets easily picked off and sent down the ice. Stoll missing one-timers and PLEASE D-MEN, HIT THE F’N NET DUDE!!!! so sick of watching JMFJ and Drew (i got paid too much at this point) missing the damn net. get in the zone, send a pass to the d-men who can pass back and forth to set up the one timer, then shoot the damn puck (on net please) while kopi, richards, gagne (whoever) crash the damn net for the easy tap in. QUIT TRYING TO MAKE THE DAMN PERFECT PASS. you’re wasting crucial PP time and great opportunities to put teams away.
go kings
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@dot972005, nicely said
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Daniel Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:10 pm
@KingsFanFTW, Thanks! I play with highly talented players. Same thing!
SpencerMaze Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@dot972005, Yes, this is one thing that both frustrates and confuses me. How can you miss the net from 15 feet? Ever?? We see it constantly. Not just Stoll but against the Wings JJ had a wide open shot from 15 feet and completely missed the net by a good 3 feet. How can an NHL player miss the net that badly from so close? I mean it doesn’t seem that difficult to me. Is it that outrageous to think that an NHL defenseman can get a shot on net from 15 feet???
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Klong Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:55 pm
@SpencerMaze,
You’re off base here. About three feet off base.
CB14 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@Klong, Just like Stolls’s shots. LOL
CB14 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@KC23, I agree. What has Moreau done to deserve a spot? Stoll has played horrible, yet got promoted to the 2nd line in the 3rd period of Saturday’s game. Clifford has regressed as well, sorry Harty, I know you love him, but he just hasn’t been the same this year, and I’m not talking about scoring.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:47 pm
@CB14, you think maybe he’s gotten his bell rung one too many times? Kings need to ask him to kindly put on a visor. Or he’s going to get killed.
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Why does TM have such a hard on for Ethan Moreau. Even though Richardson hasn’t contributed much offensively, I fail to see what Moreau has done to warrant being in the lineup. Richardson at least has speed and has created some chances on net. Moreau has done nothing IMHO.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@bmova, He’s one of those players that was all but done in the NHL. But now he’s on our team? I think this is all due to the fact that Lombardi knew he had to sign scrubs to be able to pay Doughty too much.
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I don’t like TM’s new lines. It seems he wants to slow our peace which is not the right move at all. I would leave our 1st line untouched, but try to balance the rest:
Gagne – Kopitar – Williams
Stoll – Richards – Richardson
Clifford – Loktionov – Brown
Moreau – Fraser – Lewis/Westgarth
I would use the 2nd line as a checking line.
Maybe I’m a little bit afraid about the 3rd line defensively, but it could be a very fast line and big offensive threat as well.
If we need heavy weight let’s put Westy on the 4th line with Fraser and Moreau.
I would shake up our D as well. VV is much more responsible than DD, so put DD back with Mitchel and try JJ with Slava.
Mitchel – DD
JJ – VV
Scuderi – Greene
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bmova Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:58 pm
@outsider, Stoll on LW? What are you TM now, pulling names out of a hat?!?!
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Lewis (especially) along with Richardson is going to struggle offensively as long as they remain on the fourth line. So what you want THEM to DO Mr. Murray? They aren’t your ordinary fourth line players. They are third line players at most where they belong because Lewis and Richardson are better than being on the fourth line.
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dMan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm
@Brown23, Maybe, but have they showed that this year, though?
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Colo King 8 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@dMan, they both definately did in the playoffs last year
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nykingfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@Brown23,
put them on the 1st line with Kopi.
Their point production dicates it!!!!!!!!
Murray should move Williams and Gagne to the 4th line and give them 10 min of ice time a night and no more.
If this fails..move Westy up to the top line and drop Kopi to the 4th and give the 4th line less minutes!
I can see St.Louis during their pre-game meeting saying how they need to keep a careful eye on the non goal scorers..they’re the ones going to make the difference.
If they’re better than 4th line players, shouldn’t they have scored at least 1 goal between them by now???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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bmova Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:00 pm
@nykingfan, How about Richie with Richards and Brown for than one or two shifts. If Penner is given all these chances why not Richie; at least he tries!
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nykingfan Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 4:55 am
@bmova,
Evetryone’s been getting chances, but nobody’s scoring.
Are we looking for offense? IF so, He’snot bringing anything offensively to the table.
vicarious Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
@Brown23, Seems to me that if Richardson and Lewis were better than a 4th line role they’d be producing points in their 4th line minutes. Or at least some better chances. Seems to me the 3rd and 4th lines have both looked pretty ragged this year, no matter who they play on them. I think TM keeps Clifford in the line up if Westy is out as a protective measure.
Funny how the only goal I can recall from the 3rd and 4th lines was Clifford’s goal off a nice past from Westgarth. I’d say those are the two least skilled players.
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I don’t understand how Murray can elevate Richardson to a 1st line role during last week’s game, then leave him off the practice lines altogether. It seems like Murray plays favorites and for whatever reason, Stoll and Clifford are immune to the doghouse, yet are equally barren of offensive production.
I think that at some point in the near future, Clifford will be considered amongst the likes of Bernier and Moller as being brought up too soon. Has anyone seen progression in his game? I certainly haven’t, while guys like Cliche and Nolan are seemingly performing pretty well in Manchester.
To me, this organization is at a crossroads. The team identity is supposed to reliant upon a strong defensive game, with puck possession and cycling being cornerstones. Yet, you’ve got a team like the Phoenix Coyotes who seem to play hard each and every night, even after losing Bryzgalov still plugging away, achieving more with less. Look at the Red Wings, who schooled the Kings last game on how to possess the puck and make the opponent constantly chase. In the last couple games, Murray has them playing what essentially, is a 1-4. The problem is, the Ducks and Wings have cut through with speed like a hot knife through butter. The feeling that I get is this team is confused.
I’ve long since cast doubt on those blaming the system on the shortcomings in the Kings’ game, but I’m really starting to believe it. At this point, I don’t think a Parise or even the addition of a guy like Umberger would even help this team. There’s no killer instinct, there’s no mentality change. Although Richards has bolstered the 2nd line, it’s been made null with the play of the 3rd and 4th lines, plus Penner’s dead weight. I’m hoping that at some point we take two steps forward and none back.
The effort against Anaheim was good, but I’m still seeing a lack of 60 strong minutes of play. Either they’re on in the 1st and 2nd, then off in the 3rd, or off in the 1st and 2nd, then on the in the 3rd. Let’s put the foot on the throttle and display a sense of urgency. If the organization wants to win now, let’s go all in. We’re tired of waiting.
Oh, and we can do better as fans by the way. It’s embarrassing to have rival fans outnumber you at games (Vancouver, Detroit). Let’s be the 12th man, as they say in football.
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Harty Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:43 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores, your way off base my friend, but I do respect your view as an opinion
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He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:29 pm
@Harty,
Feel free to state your opinion if you disagree.
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Harty Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 7:39 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores, Cliffie is learning still, 80 games does not make a career, I agree at times he is on the wrong side of the puck on the forecheck but he has to learn body positioning. Only with playing time will he learn that in game action.
I do believe the Kings need a big body on the PP at the top of the blue ice, that could be Greene, Mitchell, Clifford, Westgarth, Hunter…….however they must get more pucks to the net and more traffic. JW, Gagne, Kopi, Stoll, are not going to battle much for free ice in front. Plus you don’t want them hurt. Play like the Bruins did with Terry O’Reilly.
Next Clifford wasn’t rushed, however is being directed to clean up penalty minutes as he led last year correct. If he takes 5 minutes for fighting okay but cannot take the instigator penatly.
Finally I don’t know about Cliche but Nolan is a relative and I would be glad to see him get a chance but not at the expense of Clifford, I would like to see this as a line.
Clifford, Lewis, Nolan
That is our future along with Richardson, Doughty, Quick, Johnson, the kid from Ottawa, and any future high draft picks.
Harty
Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:58 pm
@Harty, I wasn’t at the Detroit game so I don’t know about that but Phoenix is winning with very little AGAIN! And with no fans in the seats. I’d say that it has to be coaching as much as anything else. I think the Kings players are tired of Murray and tired of his musical lines, calling players out in the press, tired of his favoritism. Time for the murray to hang it up and hit the courses.
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KC23 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:18 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores, I think in retrospect they made a mistake telling Clifford to not fight as much (if that rumor is true, seems it is). He has lost his edge and the other teams seem to have lost respect for him.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:59 pm
@KC23, So you want him to get killed?
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I only have one question to ask of you.
During the 2nd half of last year, did you think it was too soon to bring Bernier up?
If you did..please explain why?
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nykingfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:22 pm
@nykingfan,
sorry
this post was meant for He Shoots, He Scores
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He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:23 pm
@nykingfan,
I’m referring to Lombardi’s statements about the ’07-’08 season. Bernier played 4 games and got lit up because we didn’t have any depth in goal at the time. Went back to juniors and had a 2.73 GAA – Lombardi intimated that he shouldn’t have seen the light of the NHL at that time and presumably hurt from a psychological perspective, as was the case with Moller.
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nykingfan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:30 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores,
I agree..he wasn’t ready at that time and it probably was a mistake..although it gave us something to look forward to at the time.
but the way he played during the 2nd half last year, there was no question he’s an NHL ready goaltender. I don’t think it had any lasting effect on his play.
btw agree 100% regarding the noise coming from the Red Wing fans…It was clear on tv..very embarrassing!
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I’m just a fan and don’t profess to be an expert, but the Kings have gone through a quarter of their schedule and TM doesn’t know what to do with the players he’s been given? Before the season started I was wondering how a line with Andre Loktionov flanked by Richardson and Lewis would do, given that Lewis and Richard were both speedy and not defensive liabilities. I still wonder if Loktionov, at his natural position, could act as a spark plug to get them going.
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Trade Penner, Bernier and Hickey for Parise. Lets go DL.
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King Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@Ryno, Who else are you gonna get rid of to fit Parise under the cap? The 3 you propose in your trade equal about 1/2 what Parise will cost.
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He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@King Alex,
Evens out just fine. With that deal the Kings would be $23,000 under the cap.
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King Taco Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores, Yeah and we could probably get Richardson to suit up as the back up goaltender
King Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:00 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores, I’m sure NJ is just drooling like every other team people want to trade Penner to. Parise is a UFA next season & will command top dollar. Heck, we can trade Westy, Lotki & Voynov to Pitt for that Crosby guy while we are at it. I hear that Crosby guy has a history of injury so they should take our 3 players for their one. Penner aint goin nowhere until he starts producing as nobody will take on his salary. Our best hope to deal Penner will be at the trade deadline, if he has produced something and becomes of value to someone, not while he is skating at practice with a no contact jersey on.
Sebastian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@Ryno, if i had a penny for every time someone suggested we trade for Parise….
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Ryno Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@Sebastian, Isn’t Penner a fairly high cap hit? Whatever moves DL had in mind while he was going after Brad Richards would need to happen. Maybe Stoll? A defensman?
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:00 pm
@Ryno, Can we toss in Westgarth, Moreau and Murray in that deal?
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“He has a resume of being able to score, as does Lewis. It’s not there right now. ‘ Who’s resume is TM reading?? The last thing I think of about both of those players is thier ability to score.
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Hunter, Moreu and Westgarth have no offensive skill. Lewis last season when allowed to play with people who can play (i.e. have skill) was great-remember last season when Kopi was injured. Richardson brings speed and heart. Skill, Speed and Heart-three things that TM doesn’t value. Instead he values size and grit. I read somewhere that TM is now the oldest coach in the NHL. No wonder he is living in the past. Someone needs to educate him on the post-lock-out NHL…before he completely ruins this team.
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lewis has a resume for scoring……….when?
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Sebastian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@neil, when he was in college? LOL
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yooperskip24 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@neil, I wouldn’t call it a resume of scoring, but last year when Kopi got injured, Lewis was elevaed to the 2nd line. In one of the first games he traded goals and assists with Ryan Smyth. Smyth assisted on a goal by Lewis and Lewis assisted on a goal by Smyth. The next game or maybe 2 games later, Lewis did the same with Brown. Again each player getting a goal and assist off each other. It was a sign of Lewie’s ability, however soon after that, Lewis was demoted back to the fourth line and there he stayed for the remainder of the season, except on penalty kills. Something he did was negative in TM’s eyes and he again achieved a position on TM’s “stink” list. Lewis had a good degree of success in those two games but was dumped, probably for a defensive error on his part. That’s Ok to do to a player, but to never bring himm back up to fill the gap the Kings had, is too much punishment.
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the NHL says all the time this is the best blog in the buisness and I see why, everyone has a negative opinion of everything…..
fire this guy, bench this guy, put this guy in the pressbox……fortunately TM and DL are running things as this could get murky if left to the bloggers…..
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Lake Forest Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:51 pm
@Harty, Gotta love it! Though on the positive side it’s sometimes nice to get people’s opinions who disagree with what is going on. I don’t blame them, but I don’t agree with them either.
I learn a lot more from this blog than i do anywhere else about the kings and I give that credit to the bloggers.
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Sebastian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@Harty, Its the best blog as far as the content that is provided by Rich Hammond.
As far as hockey IQ of a lot of reader posts…..ehhh… not so sure.
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To all who say Brown is off, look at the stats. He is 3 points behind Ricky for 2nd on the team & some of you wanna drop him to 3rd line to move up either Richardson or Lewis. No offence to Richie or Lewis, but Brown’s finishing skills & proven scoring ability make them look like twiddledum & twiddledee. It’s never going to happen nor is it warranted.
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Eric Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 1:54 pm
@King Alex, Right on. I couldn’t agree more. People are on Brown’s case for his drop in hits I’m guessing. He’s not near as visible, but he is getting points on the board. As for twiddle dee and dum… yea, except they don’t need Brown to make them look like that. They are doing it on their own.
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King Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@Eric, Thanks bro! I just don’t get the mindset that wants to demote a producing player for ones who do not produce on a team that needs more scoring???
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tullskull Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:15 pm
@King Alex, Alex, my opinion is there is definitely something wrong with Brown. I don’t know what it is and I am not going to speculate past saying he just is not the same player he was last year. Maybe the locker room isn’t all on the same page.
We have a different opinion of Brown I think as I wish he would handle the puck as little as possible and is not much of a finisher, but what I wanted to say is it doesn’t matter what line someone is on as long as they are successful. Brown does not play any different no matter what line he is on. That is another way of saying that I don’t think that he can adjust his game in any way to help make other players better. It would be nice if Richards had some players with a higher hockey I.Q. that he could play with.
Outside of Gagne and Williams, I don’t think we really have anyone that could be a good compliment to Richards’ game.
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King Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@tullskull, He is 29th in the league in hits through the first 20 games. He is being asked to score more & get others involved which he is doing all while trying to hone is agressive game to the new rule changes. If you look at team play, Greene is making up for Brown’s drop in hits. I can think of quite a few players to worry about on our roster other than Brown. Everyone in the bottom 6 come to mind. Brown’s assists (currently 3rd on the team) would surely drop by playing him in the bottom six where our talent pool has not shown the ability to shoot the puck in the pacific ocean let alone the other teams goal. Richardson has played in 18 games over multiple lines & has 1 assist. I love Ritchie’s hustle but he is not a scorer you can count on. Never has been, never will be. He is a perfect role player. Kopi would play the same way on any line too, but we would never even discuss Kopi in the bottom 6.
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Osaka Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:18 pm
@King Alex, Out of the top 50 hitters in the league, 3 guys have more points than Brown. Two guys have one more point and one guy has two more points. He has to be compared to guys who play his style.
Osaka Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@King Alex, I don’t know what they compare him too but you need to compare him to guys who play his style. Clowe on SJ, Brown has more points and more hits. Lucic on Boston, Brown has more hits but Lucic has ONE more point. Compare him to any power forward or grinder in the league and look how the stats stack up.
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King Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@Osaka, How dare you use facts like stats and comparable players! Emotions and “knowing” something is wrong with a player is the perfectly sane way to go. It’s one thing to point fingers at players who are not producing but it’s something else to point the finger at those who do but when we lose, the eat your own crowd wants blood.
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tullskull Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:11 pm
@King Alex, I think you are talking about me here and I am sorry but I don’t think you understood my post well. It might surprise you, but I think your statement regarding Kopitar is right, and I have said it many times; Kopitar in not very good at making other players better. I do think Williams is good at this skill. This does not dictate Kopitar being moved to the bottom 6 by the way, or Brown for that matter.
I know I make it difficult to argue against my premise when I simply say Brown is different this year because I am not allowing you to counter with your rebuttal using stats. Stats are definitely important but they can be used in many ways that lead to invalid conclusions. Stats are good for comparing players. Like I hinted at earlier, I do think there may be something going on in the room that is not positive for DB. Perhaps he is having some extra pressure at home? I am not trying to give evidence for trading him or anything like that. I try to be pretty fair around here with my comments and to me Brown is just not playing with the same fire as last year.
I like DB and do not want him traded. That being said I will not back down from my on ice evaluation. When you have a guy like Richards on the line you give HIM the puck. Period.
Brown falls down, or dives,(I hate this), or loses the puck at the blue line or shoots into the goalies chest too much. He would do this on any line he is on which makes me wish for the personnel that would allow him to drop to the 3rd line. Brown does not tend to look up or even think about waiting on his line mates to see if a play might be there to develop. That is what I meant by having players who were more complimentary to working toward increased scoring chances and a higher quality scoring chance for the line. That is what i meant by having a higher hockey I.Q. The frustrating thing is that when Brown is able to look up he can make a decent pass and make something good happen but this is always the second or third option. He may be third in assists but they are Frolov type assists which were rarely a result of him making a good passing play. Sorry but Brown does not get others involved. Never will.
Brown also happens to be the Kings’ captain. I am sorry but I don’t recall your opinion of how the Kings’ are playing so far this year but I can tell you that hockey minds much more wise than me have said the Kings are playing uninspired hockey and I agree. They pretty much have been a disappointment to me considering how much promise they have “on paper”. They are just not coming together. This is partly Browns’ responsibility. I am not in the room so I don’t know how he handles the challenges before him as a captain, but one must wonder if he is having trouble in his role. I wish him all the best, on the ice and off. I don’t care if he is a nice guy or a jerk. I simply am trying to think of how he might be put in a position to be more successful for the Kings.
To tell you the truth I don’t think any of the lines are playing well together. there is no chemistry except for a smidge on the first line, but that is about it. We are getting by mostly on individual talent and effort. It is unsustainable.
KC23 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@King Alex, Brown finally picked up his game, but it didn’t look so great up through the Vancouver game.
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King Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@KC23, We could say the same thing scoring wise about Ricky since the last 5 games. Both these guys give it there all 90% of the time.
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We have been Consistent!! Inconsistent! Another use less with great players…I hope we get Andy Tippet to be our coach for next year! He will fit right in I like his approach on the game.
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Terry,
I don’t know either.
Just throwing darts too.
Best of luck,
Kings Fan looking for some offense.
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The Kings have a weaker team than last year. We have not replaced Handzus or Simmonds. Richards is an improvement at center but not enough to neutralize the loss of these two players. Doughty not improving and seems to have regressed. I have been a big supporter of Doughty bu am beginning to question his upside. Richardson, Williams, Clifford andLewis are
nonexistent and Stoll also is having a bad year.Loktionov is a long way from a top line player. I question whether we make the playoffs. We definitely are not a cup contender. Have been a Kings fan since 1967-8.Will have to wait longer for a true
contender. We have been served a lot of hype as fans.
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tullskull Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@rmartin1951, Yes I think you are right. I hope you will be patient with Doughty. Personally he drives me nuts but he should be given at least half a season to recover. If you know me then you know I think Zus is irreplaceable but it seems all people care about is speed so what do I know?
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Classic Murray!
Put hard working guys on the fourth line, give them 6 to 8 minutes of ice time, most of it after a PK, beat the system into them till they’re numb, tell them their job is to get the puck in deep and cycle the boards, then whine how they don’t score enough.
Their failure to score is a direct reflection on the quality of coaching.
Lewis, Ritchie, Cliffy, Lokti etc all have physical talents that can’t be taught. Imagine if those were nurtured instead of being smothered by an archaic system.
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Osaka Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@Token, I disagree. It is personel. The Kings miss Zues, Poni, and Simmer. Last year the third line production also dropped from the year before because Frolov left. The system and coaching are the same, it is the personal that has changed and each time we have lost talent.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:08 pm
@Osaka, It’s Murray. Plain and simple. And I think he’ll be gone soon. When you constantly have players with a proven history of scoring who don’t score when playing for one particular coach… it has to be the coach.
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Osaka Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:03 pm
@Duckbasher, Who are the proven scorers?
Duckbasher Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 9:59 am
@Duckbasher, – Penner? Ponikarovsky? Frolov? Hunter? Gagne, (scoring some at present), Williams? all have been 20+, some have been 30+, one has been 40+. Murray took Frolov who was a 30 goal scorer and a beast on the puck down low (net presence?) and moved him to a 3rd line checking role. He nearly ruined the careers of Boyle (who Murray decided was a grinder because of his size), Purcell, Moulson. Ryan Smyth is now back to putting the puck in the net quite regularly this season too. BUt in all resepct, it’s not just Murray. Losing some of the role players has really effected our game. The biggest thing (it’s been said above) is that we aren’t driving the net. We aren’t hitting the net (too many missed shots), and we don’t have much net presence (Ryan Smyth?). I miss Smyth’s presence in front of the net, Simmer in the corners, and Zeus… well I miss everything about his game. Slow or not. And that isn’t Murray’s fault.
zulov Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:17 pm
@Token, Great post. TM cuts their hands off and says “Frankly, they are not cutting it”.
However, I really can’t see Richie or Lewis as a top 6 on any team. Unofrtunately, they are not getting a fare shake playing this horrible system.
Every well coached team has figured out how the Kings play and can easily counter our 3rd and 4th line.
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Token can take this if he wishes, otherwise whoever else wrt TM:
Was listening to nhl home ice. Someone called from LA wrt the scoring problems. Espo was on and didn’t hesitate. He spoke incredibly highly of TM. He’s had experience w them. Don’t get me wrong. It’s not as though I don’t notice that other players have succeeded elsewhere and then others have come here and struggled…… but…. his feeling was clear.
He said, something to the effect, yeah, you can change the coach, and that’s not gonna change a d…. thing.
He also questioned Simon Gagne, and said he felt like ‘the game has passed him by’ but that the Kings have too much talent to not be scoring….. but that it’s not the fault of TM. If anything, my opinion is that the ‘mix’ of DL and TM is maybe not the best. That doesn’t mean either of them aren’t good. But I’m not sure how they mix. It’s easy to come down on the coach, but if DL has been drafting for four or five years, forwards whose strength is not their speed, skill and hands, (can’t count Toffoli yet as he isn’t on the roster), then how is TM supposed to make guys like Richie, Lewis and Clifford scorers?That seemingly was never their strength from the beginning unless there is something I missed.
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KC23 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@number 6, Questioned Gagne? Say what!?!?
I wish the game would pass by Lewis, Clifford, Stoll and Richardson the same way it has passed Gagne by.
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Osaka Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:26 pm
@number 6, That was my point, we lost talent on the 3rd line the last 2 consecutive years and the production from the 3rd line has dropped accordingly each year.
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number 6 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@Osaka,
Yes, someone said we had the same problem last year. Well, from LW on the 3rd line we did, but between Zues and Simmer I believe we still had about 28 goals between the two, 33 or 34 total. Right now the way the various 3rd lines are going we’ll be fortunate to get 12 out of that line for the year unless they snap out of it….. and I mean relatively soon.
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number 6 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@number 6,
And I know that Stoll was playing w better players centering the 2nd line, so I can see a dropoff from 20, but ONE after 20 games. Not that Is a dropoff.
Osaka Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@number 6, Dropped off the planet. I can’t understand Stoll, he has a good shot. I mean the guy is automatic on shootouts, picks his spot and nails it just about every time. How come he can’t score? Maybe Lokti should center the 3rd line and have Stoll play the wing, Lokti can try to feed Stoll the puck to get that great wrist/snapshot on net.
Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:17 pm
@number 6, That sounds like Espo blowing smoke up Murray’s behind. Gagne is one of the better two-way players on the ice. Believe what you want, but we paid Doughty too much and can’t da anything with Penner’s horrible salary so now we can’t afford anything but scubs on 3rd and 4th lines.
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What do people think about moving Johnson (we already have enough offensive-minded defensemen both in L.A. and in Manchester) and Richardson for Carter in Columbus? My second question is do we have any decent forwards down in Manchester to bring up? Third, why is it that young forwards called up from Manchester cannot succeed in L.A., but seem to produce elsewhere (i.e. Boyle on the Rangers, Purcell on the Lightening and the best example being Moulson of the Islanders)? Could it be that T.M.’s system stifles initiative?
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Let’s be honest – our 3rd and 4th lines stink. The talent level is minimal. Scoring with this group is by accident, not by design. When the Kopitar and Richards lines are not on the ice, it is just about a certainty that we are not going to score. DL has simply not done a good enough job putting together a full complement of forwards worthy of a championship team. Something is out of whack when we have a guy like Voynov possibly sitting in the near future, while the likes of Ethan Moreau, Trent Hunter and Trevor Lewis are supposed to provide “secondary” scoring. We have “assets”, and we have cap space – it is time to use both to get the talent level over the top. Until then, this year’s fancy slogan – “The Time Is Now” – is a joke
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Wish the Kings had Moller and Holloway in the system still they’d be great for the 3rd-4th lines!!!
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Colo King 8 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 9:13 pm
@andy, yea moller getting knocked off the puck everytime he touches it would be a great guy to through in on the 4th line
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JD Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 1:17 am
@Colo King 8, I agree, moeller would be a big help right now
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I won’t lie, I’m a Richardson fan, and I’m really struggling to comprehend how he is continually being put in the dog house. It’s apparent he’s not scoring, but let’s be honest, their bottom six is not producing period. Jarret Stoll is the standout bottom 6 forward with a very modest 6 points (16 mins/game); and that includes a substantial amount of PP time. I believe Clifford is the next best with 3 pts. I understand these players bring more than just points to the team, but replacing Richardson with Moreau, Hunter, Fraser, etc doesn’t really make sense.
Sooner or later Richardson is going to realize that he can be a player in this league and ask to be dealt – In my opinion, he’d be crazy not to. He’s shown in the past that he can score, and given a prolonged opportunity (similar to that of Penner); I think he’ll get going.
It’s scary to think about where this team would be without Kopitar – When you look at the elite teams in the league (ie. Pittsburgh); they survived, and actually excelled without the best player in the world – if that happened on this team, you could kiss the playoffs goodbye. They need to do something to get the other 3 lines really rolling.
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Puckn-A Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 8:56 am
@Dumphy, Fraser had more points in 2 games than Richardson’s season to date totals.
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