The Kings are back on the ice with a bit of a new look on the third and fourth lines. Dustin Penner is once again in a “no-contact” jersey, this time red. With seven defensemen, they rotate so it’s tough to tell what the Kings have in mind for pairs. Here’s how the forwards are lined up…
Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Loktionov-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Hunter
Moreau-Fraser-Westgarth
Penner/Richardson/Lewis
Penner on the 4th line! Wooot!. Loki is way more skilled.
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Winger23 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:24 am
@hector,
Technically that would be the 5th line…..
Hunter and Moreau have been busts to say the least. We need more talent in our bottom six.
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Seano Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@Winger23, Move Loki to center the third line. More scoring talent, but mostly because that is his position, not LW. He is not a LW. With a young player like that, why force him into this position. Put him in a better position to have success, and it may help Stoll break out of his offensive struggles also.
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Sebastian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:34 am
@hector, hes not really going to be on the 4th line….hes just skating with the 4th line for now. im sure when hes healty enough he”ll be back on the 2nd line and Lokti will be on a plane to Manchester.
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Silver n Black Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:11 am
@hector, 5th* line
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Ian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am
@Silver n Black, 5th line should get to play with the kids before the zamboni comes out. It might be our only chance to see Penner pop one in.
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Ethan Moreau on the Powerplay makes as much sense as putting pepper on ice cream… Give Lokti a shot!
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The search for a productive bottom six continues…
I might try
richardson/stoll/hunter
clifford/fraser/westie
Moreau needs a view from above ice level
Lets hope the PK can pick it up and concentrate on killing penalties instead of scoring goals and that the players dont forget to bring their legs with them tonight.
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tornado12 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:33 am
@tornado12, er..I mean Tuesday
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Ian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:41 am
@tornado12,If our PK scores, i’m not gonna complain. And let’s hope they don’t forget their legs for the rest of the season. Cuz those things are useful.
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The constant tinkering with the 3rd and 4th lines is much ado about nothing, as those lines have produced nothing this year no matter who is on them.
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It will be interesting to see how these new lines play together on Tuesday…
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Whats the difference between red no-contact and yellow no-contact?
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Lake Forest Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:36 am
@John, the color.
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HockeyOnlyAwaitingModeration Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:42 am
@Lake Forest, Outstanding
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Ian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:43 am
@Lake Forest, red is for players that are healthy but the coaching staff wish wasn’t.
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number 6 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:15 am
@Ian,
@Lake Forest
great stuff u guys
I like what i see from Fraser. I think when he gets more comfortable with the system he will start producing. It won’t be much, but it will be something. He need some wingers that can hold onto the puck. Penner and Moreau on the 4th line could have potential.
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Ian Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:06 am
@FRO, Yah. He’s not bad for a replacement player in a salary dump trade. He has something to prove; and he’s playing like it.
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Here is I find most difficult:
First, the drop in scoring is predominately accounted for by the lack of production from the 3rd and 4th lines. Therefore, what is Murray to do? Should he, as some suggest, keep the lines in tact to create familiarity? Or, should he switch these two lines up, resulting in more criticism for “inkering Terry”?
Second, the drop in scoring comes from guys like Clifford, Stoll, Lewis, & Richardson – all guys who did better in Terry Murray’s “defensive system”. Therefore, can the coach be blamed for a lack of scoring from players who have performed at a higher level in previous years? Taking that a step further, since the King haeve adjusted their system (see Mitchell’s comments from last week), might the Kings be better off by throwing out said changes and reverting back to the “defense only” system of seasons past? It would appear that at minumum 13, 15, 22 & 28 would perfom at a higher level with a “defense only” approach?
This leads me to think that the scoring (or lack of) might actually have something to do with the players. Maybe these guys aren’t good enough to score unless they muck and grind it all the time…
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Michael J. Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:42 am
@Michael J.,
I also find spelling difficult
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bbb7 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:00 am
@Michael J., The guys you listed just dont have any offensive skills, is the problem. (Yes, Stoll has a great wrist shot, he just never gets it off in 5-on-5). When other teams’ bottom lines do get in and have an effective forecheck, if they create a turnover they quickly try to create a scoring chance, getting the puck into the middle, or cross-ice. When the Kings 3rd and 4th lines create a turnover, they dont seem to know what or how to get the puck into a scoring area. It usually ends up back along the boards or passed to the D, who usually delay and so lose their shooting lanes and end up dumping it back behind the net.
At some point the lower lines need to create off the forecheck and chip in a goal every few games, and the Kings bottom players arent skilled enough.
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jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:53 am
@Michael J.,
Season’s past has shown us that the defense only system can only get us into the first round. So revert back to that? Lack of scoring has “something to do with the players?” -Just wondering at which point then is the coach accountable for the play of the team?
If any team has a real system, it’s Detroit, and they can switch from defense to offense on the fly. One or the other will not work in today’s NHL. It appears Murph has tried to take steps in that direction and hopefully he keeps working at it. No new adjustment to strategy or method comes easy. This team has the talent to acheive top ten. It’s the LEADERSHIP which will help them reach their potential. History makes the same argument over and over again.
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Belexes Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:04 pm
@jess,
“Season’s past has shown us that the defense only system can only get us into the first round.”
The Kings were the highest scoring team in the playoffs last year.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@Belexes, probably just a fluke. Plus, we see where that got us right?
jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:47 pm
@Belexes,
So we out-scored the other team (SJ) -which then edged us out of the first round? Sorry but is something wrong with my math?
taking both Richardson and Lewis out is another ridiculous TM move. the team needs to score more so put Westgarth in?
Richardson-Stoll-Hunter
Clifford-Fraser-Lewis
in my opinion, TM needs to play one of Hunter/Moreau, not both. Lewis and Richardson should always be in – Richardson creates more scoring changes in one game than Moreau has all year. scoring chances will turn into goals.
if you absolutely need Westgarth then I would take Fraser out. but with Fraser and Clifford in the lineup I don’t see a need for Westgarth. it’s not about fighting, it’s about hitting and being a deterrent from running our guys. Fraser and Clifford do that as well if not better than Westgarth and they actually can score goals.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:50 am
@Dave, How many goals have Richardson and Lewis produced this year?
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KingsGuy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:51 am
@Dave, Looks like TM wants size rather than speed.
Anyways, what kind of points has Richardson and Lewis put up so far this season? Slim to none.
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Dave Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 10:55 am
@KingsGuy, what kind of points have Moreau and Westgarth put up? at least Richardson is creating chances and Lewis plays a valuable role.
if you want more scoring you put in more skilled guys, no?
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KingsGuy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am
@Dave, Yea, I see your point on Richardson. Lewis however, on wing, I rather have Moreau or yes, even KW.
Duckbasher Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@Dave, If we go on past performances then Hunter needs to play. At least given a chance to do what he’s done in the past. As far as I’m concerned Moreau hasn’t shown me much yet. All he does is dump or pass back to the D. I also think it’s just a matter of time until Richie’s hard work will pay some dividends.
Eggplant Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am
@Dave, This. This a thousand times.
Richardson should always play, in my opinion. He’s a solid bottom-six player, and I don’t think that stats tell the whole story about his game. At the start of the season I paid a lot of attention to his game (well, I am a big Richie fan) and I was surprised as he seemed to be even faster than last season. That’s always been his greatest asset, and he’s also one of the best Kings on the forecheck.
Then at some point TM decided that since he hasn’t scored a goal yet, he’s going to be a healthy scratch. I have to agree, too often his shots find their way straight to the opposing team’s goaltender’s logo. But as you said, the amount of scoring chances he creates is ridiculous for a bottom six player.
I think what happened to Richardson’s game was similar to what happened to Quick after “Startergate”. He was getting chances and playing well, but not scoring. TM decided he’s seen enough of this guy and threw him out of the line-up. His play regressed and after that he’s been getting only short stints in the line-up and every time he’s just about to get a hang of it, he’s a healthy scratch again. That leads to him trying too hard and pretty much failing.
That’s my rant on the subject, anyway.
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99musicman Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am
@Dave, good comments…I don’t really see the need much for Westy at all…He barely wins his fights (mainly ’cause he stays by the Credo of fighting only heavyweights), I agree about Richie..he is more energetic out there than any of the bottom 6…although I like the intensity Fraser brings..However, I’m gettin a lil bored with Cliffy out there…He’s not hitting all that hard, he has half the intensity in fights this year AND…he couldn’t find the back of the net if you paid him (nevermind that!)
go with:
Penner*/Stoll/Richardson
Clifford/Fraser/Lewis
*keep Loki on 2nd line
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Just wanted to thank everyone again for another successful Suite experience. For the next suite game we are going to try to do some things different so look out for more info on that. Thank you to everyone and for Rich Hammond for that awesome shot out during his interview. You are the man Rich.
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puck73 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:00 am
@EASportsMgt, I hope we are shooting pucks again. I love stick practice, could do that for at least a half hour!
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LomitaKingsFan Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:21 am
@EASportsMgt, As always thank you very much Frank for putting these events together!
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glewis29 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@EASportsMgt, Thanks for helping to put it together, much appreciated.
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What the Kings need is to balance the scoring amongst the four lines…
So….. drop Kopitar and Richards’ lines to #3 and #4 and in 20 games the scoring will be all balanced out.
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Gustavo Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:09 am
@King Doughnuts,
Sure, put Quick in the 1st line so he can contribute to the scoring balancing act, as well.
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bbb7 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:16 am
@King Doughnuts, You are correct sir…. none of the lines will score.
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Lake Forest Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am
@King Doughnuts, Put TM in a jersey and show us how to really work the system.
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Throw Brown into the third line right wing and put Lewis on the right with Richie and Lokti. That is a young line with skill. Lewis hasn’t finished because of who he plays with. But He brings speed. A lot of it. Put him with the skills and passing of Richards and creativity of Loktionov and you have nice clean energy. Brownie needs to play more of a grindy game with Stolly and ______ (insert) that would give us more balance on the top three lines and not let Browns style of play keep ruining the second line attack. GO
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bbb7 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:22 am
@Kingdomcome100, The end of last season I would have agreed with you about Lewis, but his offensive skills have been zero this season, and not just because of the guys he’s been playing with. He doesnt seem to have any real vision for creating offense. And Lokti just isnt strong enough for the wing, still.
Brown shouldnt be depended upon to bring the puck into the O-zone cause he never looks to pass and that leaves his linemates out. As soon as he gets the puck he should look to get it to one of his other linemates and head to the net, not just put his head down and shoot (or try a fancy move and lose possession). He has no real creative skills.
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LittleRhody Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:33 am
@bbb7, I think that in the last few games Brown has done just that, pulling up just inside the blue line and looking for a trailing player. I havent seen him shoot from the top of the circles without looking for a while now.
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Kingdomcome100 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
@bbb7, I agree.. I think what I saw from him last year is what makes me thing if we gave him the opportunity to use his speed by putting him with someone like Richie it would elevate his game. But I agree he has completely dropped off this season. Same as Clifford.
as for Brown, he definitely should leave the puck for Lokti or Richards and like LittleRhody said drive to the net where he can be a force with his strength.
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hey, have not seen anything from Moreau, little from Scuderi, Brown is off and on, Loki and Clifford and Stoll need more ice time..should have rest quickie after the first anaheim game,
still cannot even remember Hunter doing much, at least Fraser finishes checks
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We may want to start spreading the talent to 3 lines and giving ice time accordingly. Theres just nothing happening on the bottom six, not even a fight or hard hit. Maybe bring Brown or Lotki down to third line and Clifford up to the 2nd line for a game or two. We might see three lines scoring goals and wearing other teams down.
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I like how most of us criticize the line changes, but our suggestions for the problem are line changes. haha!
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KingsGuy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:31 am
@Lake Forest, Ha, no one is ever happy when we don’t pull through a W. Even then, people want line changes!
I don’t know what the heck happened against the Wings, but 2nd and 3rd period we looked terrible. – I thought I was watching the Reign. We definitely need to change up something.
Lotki is to week for to play wing and Lewis has done ZERO on the wing. IMO, these two won’t do much of anything on TM’s system.
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Lake Forest Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 11:38 am
@KingsGuy, I missed the game completely, so I don’t know if what people say on here are really justified or not. I would assume, no. but thank god we have this blog as some of us would have a heart-attack without being able to vent our frustrations.
It’s understandable, we ALL disagree on points, but we ALL want 1 thing – The Cup.
Remember – Coaches lose games, Teams win games. That tied with our emotions and sometimes I want TM to be let go. I know that people will agree or disagree.
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Can someone tell me what Terry Murray sees in Moreau? I guess he hasn’t been bad, but he certainly hasn’t been good either. He’s just sort of a place holder and I thought the Kings were well past those “just put someone who isn’t bad” stage of the rebuild.
And WTF with him on the second power play unit? Ok, so they want someone with some size to set up in front of the net. Well that hasn’t worked yet. I’d rather see skill (Loktionov) than size out there on the second unit.
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CabbagesAndKings Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 12:05 pm
@Bickleton Wigglesworth III,
I completely agree with you. I think Loktionov on the right wall, setting up VV on the point and Stoll on the left wall — with Gagne and Williams down low is a much better look.
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I love the focus on the third line scoring – it remains, in my opinion, our biggest problem early in the season here. Earlier in the season I argued for a third line of Parse/Loktionov/Brown, but with Penner/Parse being out (anyone have any updates on Parse – it sounds pretty bad), it makes it harder to have three legitimate scoring lines.
I do, however, still think Loktionov should be centering our third line, bumping Stoll to wing or to pivot our bottom line. I don’t necessarily think Clifford, Lewis, Richardson have what it takes to be goal scorers in this league – but the only way you find out is by putting them up in the lineup when injuries occur. Or in other words — Right Now.
Isn’t now a great opportunity to put Clifford on our 2nd line LW to see what he can do? How about something like
Gagne / Kopitar / Richardson
Clifford (Penner) / Richards / Williams
Moreau (Parse)/ Loktionov / Brown
Hunter / Stoll / Lewis
Or at least – Something like this. I picked these lines because I’m an old school believer in the “quarterback, scorer, worker” line combination. I don’t really think Richardson is a RW1 – but maybe try Lewis up in the RW2 position – he’s supposed to be able to score goals at some point, isn’t he?
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Alex Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 7:06 pm
@CabbagesAndKings, Kopitar centers Penner and Brown. Richrds centers Willams and Gagner. Recall Nolan and Vey and put loktionov at center. Richardson centers Clifford and Hunter.
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Considering STL is presently playing much better than DAL at this point (thanks to the Hithcock hiring), I imagine Quick will go in STL and Bernier will face DAL.
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Could you imagine if we all really had a say in the lineup. Heck we would never get anyone on the ice?
Guess what folks we are not far off fighting for top spot, the league is changing somewhat. Watch teams that didn’t have success in the past beating teams now.
(example, Leafs beat Washington bad, 1st time since in some ridiculous number of games)
Any given night now folks someone could win, this is what is making the NHL more interesting overall. Yes the Kings have underachieved to thier paper lineup, but the game is played on ice not pulp and paper.
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lets take all the speed out of the line up and get beat all nite in the nuetral zone……….give quick some more rubber………..one and done all murray knows……fire murray………he worse than pathetic and looks like a statue……….someone please throw some pigeons at him tommorow nite maybe hell flinch…………kopi richards and brown need to step up at st louis or it will be a long nite…………go quickie………and stop all the rubber murray sent you for the win..and wesgarth please take one in the face for the team…….we nned to see your dental work..not
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