There seems to be little doubt that the Kings appreciate Andrei Loktionov’s skill, that he has the potential to be a regular NHL player. The only question is, where? Loktionov is a natural center, and both he and Terry Murray have indicated that Loktionov might be at his best in the middle of the ice. But given the Kings’ current roster situation — three healthy centers, and injuries to left wingers Dustin Penner and Scott Parse — Loktionov has been on the wing, for the most part. In the third period Saturday against Detroit, Murray did move Loktionov to center, with Jarret Stoll on the right wing. Is that a look the Kings might try on a more permanent basis?
MURRAY: “I’ve thought about that a lot. Before we got him back up there, that was part of the thought process, where I was going to play him. Was it going to be left wing? I felt good about putting him on the left side, and I still do. I just think that the (Detroit) game was a very difficult one to evaluate individual players. I can evaluate our team play, but when you get away from your structure, like we did, all players will get exposed. I felt Detroit did that to us. They were really pushing it up, over the top of us. They took a lot of the speed out of our game. They were waiting for pucks to come to them, and I think we accommodated them in those situations.
“Loktionov, he was right in there in that category. There were some turnovers in the neutral zone that you don’t want to see against that hockey club. So I’ll leave that line, with him on the left side, the way it is for the game tomorrow. I know I have an option, and I know I can make some moves there. He would be one of those players that I can move to a different position if I feel I need to.’’
Question: Have you talked to Stoll about that at all, about his comfort in moving if the situation presented itself?
MURRAY: “We haven’t had a lot of talk about it. We kind of pushed it around last year a little, when I did it near the end of the season. He seemed to be OK with it, was OK with it. He prefers to be in the middle of the ice, but sometimes you’ve got to make those kind of changes. We’ll see where this all goes. Loktionov might be fine on left wing and we’ll just leave him there. So I don’t want to put any doubt in anybody’s head here, as to what I might do.’’
Gotta play physical against the wings, otherwise they will skate circles around you…
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USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@Belexes,
You have to catch them to hit them…
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:03 am
@USHA#17, they sure do move around don’t they. Edmonton seems to be playing a lot like that this season too. But that doesn’t fit into our “system”.
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Damn it, just put Richie with Richards and Brown for more than one period and see what happens. Do it TM!!!
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zulov Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@bmova, I think he did that for a game or two this year… I could be wrong…
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What’s the point of keeping loktionov? I don’t see him being in the bottom six and our two top centers are so good he’s never gonna beat them for the spot. It’s nice having him as a prospect but Richards and kopi are here for a while. When are they gonna be able to fit him in? I don’t see him being as successful as he should be on the wing. It’s random but I feel like we should try and shop him around for something we can really use now. I probably am wrong though and will get told off right now though lol.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@Ashykon, he’ll be returning to Manch when Penner comes off IR
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KCH12 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@Ashykon, Well that’s why he will be packaged for Parise LOL
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Ashykon Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@KCH12, lololol I’m trying to be realistic though, like a player like filatov or something lol
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Token Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@Ashykon, There’s this team called the Penguins, that last year lost all of their top centers to injury for a pretty long time.
True story.
They didn’t suck when that happened.
Makes you wonder why.
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@Ashykon, @Token,
They have a HHOF coach.
Simple as that.
Ashykon Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@Ashykon, @Token
I have a feeling that if we’re put in the position the pens were put in we won’t be fairly close to dominating like the pens.
USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Ashykon,
In a year you can look back on this comment and LOL Loktionov is a keeper…If he can just avoid more shoulder injuries. Gotta love the spark he brings to the 2nd line.
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:13 am
@Ashykon, If the Kings don’t start making a real push and start scoring goals, I’d say DL will pull the trigger on some changes. The problem is we don’t have the depth in Manchester we once had. We traded away Schenn, Tuebert already. We lost others to Russia. So who gets traded? My guess would be Lokti, Voynov or Bernier are the ones other teams would want the most. And with none of the 3rd or 4th line players (that we might hope to move) scoring AT ALL, I would bet that we’ll lose younger talent. So I say… c’mon Kings. Start hitting the net because I don’t want to trade Bernier, Lokti or Voynov.
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Almost sounds like TM is getting serious Lokti up from Manchester permanently. If only we had more room for another center…he plays much better there than on the boards.
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Harty Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@kingkrazy, why do you say he plays better at center……
-size
-guts
-passion
-drive
-puck battles
-doesn’t like boards
……if any two of these are correct then he doesn’t deserve to be here……
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kingkrazy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@Harty, hahahahahahah that’s good.
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@Harty,
Try this:
-Sweet, sweet hands with the eyes to match.
Remember Wayne Gretzky?
How many did he fail?
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Duckbasher Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:19 am
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, Nailed it. Lokti is a Center. Same as Ryan Smyth makes his living in front of the net, not flying up and down the ice. Same as Luc scored a gazillion points by knowing where the puck was going to be (was it really luck?).
Agreed no room in LA for Lotki, either back to Monarchs or on to another team he goes for something.
Penner definitely trade for anything, please
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jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:09 pm
@Harty, Let’s see what happens with lokti for a few more games. He just got here for cryin out loud.
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number 6 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:27 pm
@jess,
Yes Jess. Agree with you….. for cryin out loud as you say. Pleeease. I mean, I saw a game or two last year on tele where he played center and thought he looked very good. For me this isn’t another Teddy Purcell. On the small info we have from this experiment (sum total of all his nhl games) he has done very well at center.
Now if he’s forced into playing wing, then fine, I agree that it’s a bit of a waste of a commodity to not maximize his talents.
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jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@number 6, Definitely,
I agree with potentially trying him out at center somewhere for a game or two. Maybe someone else who is a current center can play a wing just as well.
bmova Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@Harty, Loktionov, Penner and Bernier for Rick Nash!
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Everyone thinks Lokti is too good to be 3rd or 4th line center, but a couple blogs ago I read a post saying the bottom 6 is a train wreck. Sounds like we need a top 6 to play in the bottom 6 position. Isn’t that how you balance your scoring lines, by having as much talent as possible on every line?
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USHA#17 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@Kaiser Soze,
I was that conductor…Loktionov can play 3rd line center. Bump Stoll in place of Penner on the 2nd and just add Richardson.
Now, what to do with Hunter and Moreau…Oh, I know…Fraser at Center, switch Lewis on left, Westgarth/Hunter Rt.
Oh..what happened to Penner?
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outsider Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@USHA#17, That’s exactly what I said before:
2nd line: Stoll – Richards – Richardson
3rd line: Clifford – Loktionov – Brown
You can add the 4th line:
Moreau – Fraser – Lewis or Westgarth when really needed…
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Seano Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 9:44 am
@outsider, Loki to 3rd line center has to happen, but your (and others) suggestion (insistence) that Brown goes down to 3rd line – with Richardson replacing him? Brown scores over 20 goals every year and Richardson, who I do like for what he brings, has NEVER and WILL NEVER score 20 goals in a year. Makes no sense.
A team with Brown earning the 3rd line would be a great team. This team ain’t it.
Duckbasher Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:22 am
@Kaiser Soze, Now c’mon… You mean we could actually have some or our skilled players who are a threat to score on the 3rd of 4th lines? Surely you jest because that makes way too much sense.
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So here’s a stupid question being that I feel like I understand hockey and have watched/played it long enough to understand more than just the basics. I get it being difficult to go playing one position to playing another.
I don’t get why it’s so difficult to go from Center to Wing. I get it being an almost impossible request of a winger to go to center with the faceoffs and defensive responsibility down low. But isn’t wing at least less “responsibility” defensively? I would think a guy who has top six center potential could adjust.
So what is it exactly about the wing position and its responsiblities that is so drastically different for a center, especially one that has the skills like Lokti? Not all teams/systems rely on their centers (like Murray does) coming down low to receive or carry the puck out of the zone. So it can’t just be that he’s used to carrying the puck out of his end as opposed to receiving it on a pass. Can it?
Not trying to be critical of Lokti. I really just don’t get why so much attention is going to this whole playing out of his natural position. It seems going from center to wing is the least difficult of any the possibilities where you would ask a player to play out of their normal spot.
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number 6 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@JB,
JB, I’ve played too and feel I have a good understanding of the game. This is what I surmise (so not saying I’m right, but): in certain structures and with certain linemates he might do fine playing wing. But with the Kings and the type of system they play, where the forecheck and physical play is so important (think Wayne Simmonds) seems to me he just doesn’t play that sort of game nor is he well suited to it.
Someone elsewhere on the blog commented that we miss Simmer, because of the very simple, direct and physical game he plays. I agree, and I think Lokti is the direct opposite of Simmer. Not a criticism though. Just a different style.
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okto Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:16 pm
@JB, smart reads on plays, especially defensive. going from being on the tip of the spear (wing) to generating the play from your own zone (center). stronger defensive play below your dots. those are just generalities.
the biggest thing is to watch a defensize zone mistake and then notice how quick the worlds best players capitalize. instantly. think sedins.
our beer league play and countless years of pickup games dont really give us an idea of how truly important positional play is. a player that spends their developmental competitive years in a said position will usually know what to do before they think of it.
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Not sure why he gets sent down when he is a goal scorer and make plays but this team cant score goals……
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rmartin1951 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
@David H, How many goals has he scored? He makes the odd nice play but is definitely not a sniper.The Kings have a large lack of talent at the winger position.Penner,Stoll,Lewis,Richardson,Clifford Moreau,Hunter,Westgarth are
all busts. We are a 515% team at best I predict 90 points and probably miss the playoffs.
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joan fondell Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@rmartin1951, Hunter, Moreau, Westy and Penner have great size and can check when they want to, but they are lugs. Big bodies, otherwise slow and no one scores. 4 guys that offer no offensive threat. Though Westy has been a healthy scratch, and Penner has been recently injured…you’ve got 4 guys using up 6 spaces. My vote (as coach) is to have Cliffy be a 4th line energy guy with RIchardson and Lewis. Put Lokti with Stoll with another winger (anyone but the 4 big bodies above). Then your bottom 6 have speed, puck tenacity, energy and the potential to put the puck in the net. You can use Lewis on the PK with others, like Richards and Kopi and Stoll on the faceoff. While big bodies are great…they need to have some talent. Moreau takes dumb penalties, Westy gets into fights he doesn’t need to, Penner is a flop and Hunter is just plain vanilla nothing. We don’t need a fighter in Westy. On the occasions, fists are required Cliffy can duke it out. Trade for another winger. Too bad we lost Purcell and Moulson. We could use their scoring touch right about now.
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bbb7 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@David H, Why does everyone say he’s a goal scorer and has great hands. He’s never been a goal-scorer at ANY LEVEL. His best season in Juniors was 24, which would usually indicate a NHL total of 10-15 in a season. Yes, he has good passing vision and skills, but for him to be effective he needs some skilled shooters on the wing.. which we dont have other than Williams and Gagne. Penner might actually provide Lokti with someone to set up, if he ever plays even halfway to his potential with the Kings. Otherwise, might as well send Lokti back down.
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… So I don’t want to put any doubt in anybody’s head here, as to what I might do.’’
Interesting quote.
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zulov Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:34 pm
@KC23, I know!! LOL – that’s an oxy-moron!
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Yesterday’s common sense seems to be today’s brain puzzle.
-Kings are 3-1 with the newly adjusted system and roster (Lokti, Fraser, Voynov) with pens out.
-That is a lot of poisitive change in a small period of time. Let’s stick with it and maybe it can be built up to fell some NHL contenders. If not then adjust, but give the first major adjustment a chance so scientific results can be adequetly gaged.
-Knee jerk comments about big line changes, shuffling, bring back penner, juggling etc.. -oh and send lokti down is just plain impuslsive and possibly even stupid.
-If talent like our curent roster cannot make a significant difference in the NHL standings this year over last, then the blame rightly falls upon the coaching philosophy. After that, upper management.
Logic, the new conspiracy theory.
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puck73 Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@jess, I like it as well. I would take Moreau out though.
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jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:37 pm
@puck73,
Moreau is probably the most puzzling element for me. Maybe he needs a really strong coaching personality to wake him up, but Murph sure hasn’t conveyed a message of discipline as Moreau has been rewarded for bad behavior every time. So what message does that send? Murph definitely needs to shore-up the psychology end of his game as a coach by benching those who don’t perform for a game or two and that goes for players other than Moreau as well.
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zulov Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 4:41 pm
@jess, You have a very good point. But I think the Detroit loss feels a lot more weighted. We have played better it seems, but the three wins were against teams that strugled – Minnesota had a terrible game in net, and the Sucks suck this season.
Detroit was a team that has strugled this year, but they are at the top of the league when you think of elite teams – and as has been pointed out, we were beat by all 4 elite teams this year.
What is dissapointing is that we tought by dealing for Richards and getting Gagne, we are now an elite team… And it’s turning out so far that we are definetly not.
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jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@zulov,
Believe me, I felt the same dissapointment after the Wings loss. Would have been nice if we had the opportunity to have back to back games with them, so our boys had a chance to answer to the first loss. Detroit had an extraordinary game and we hit some posts and missed a penalty shot and several power play chances. I wouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water yet. The next major metric of our team’s development comes with the game against the Hawks assuming we can get past St. Louis tommorrow which shouldn’t be taken for granted either as they will be looking for redemtion for the last match.
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crashin' da net Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 6:20 pm
@jess, Still a little bit of time. We’re not in the cellar….yet. We have to resolve our 3rd/4th line scoring, entries, PP’s. Why do we always have perennial difficulties entering the zone??? In retrospect, it apears our PP passing etc… has improved somewhat but our inability to get things set-up exponentially diminishes our percentges. I think since with our early 5-3 success, our PP % has been dropping significantly.
ASsthat DET game went on, they increasingly had their way with us. Unsuccessful Penalty shot and PP’s just took the wind right out of our sails.
jess Reply:
November 21st, 2011 at 7:38 pm
@crashin’ da net,
In the 2nd period DET came out with a puck possesion strategy, as well as complete ownership of the nuetral zone.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but Lokti hasn’t impressed me at all this latest stint. He definitely shouldn’t be playing at wing. I wouldn’t mind trying to see if Stoll could play wing while Lokti tries centering the 3rd line. If anything is going to work for him, that’s probably the only option right now.
But still, I think his size is still an issue. He has gotten tossed around the last couple games. I thought in the preseason he actually looked a little stronger on the puck and was making some progress in that regard, but I haven’t seen it lately. I still think he needs a full healthy season in Manchester, where he can get used to the size at the pro level, and find his niche. I don’t think he’s found that yet.
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he cant do any worse than stoll haha
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 22nd, 2011 at 8:02 am
@jason, Most players aren’t as good defensively. In that way, it could be worse.
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So I don’t want to put any doubt in anybody’s head here, as to what I might do.’’
That’s a hilariously ironic thing to say after he just made it crystal clear that even HE doesn’t know what he is going to do. I think he’s lost and grasping straws.
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When you’re in Stoll’s shoes, you have to be flexible. Nevertheless, he’s been one of the players to being a lot of grit this season, and that should not be overlooked. His defensive game, for example, has been very big.
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