As noted, the Kings will do some bottom-six shifting tonight, as Kevin Westgarth goes into the lineup in place of Trevor Lewis. The reason, Terry Murray said, is two-fold. First, the Kings want Westgarth in the lineup — this will be his sixth game — against a physical Pittsburgh team. The domino effect is that a forward needs to come out, and in Murray’s view, Lewis has not been effective enough, and he will be a healthy scratch for the first time this season. Lewis does not have a point in 12 games this season, and after today’s very optional morning skate — only Westgarth, the scratched players and Jonathan Bernier skated — Murray talked about his reason for the lineup change.
MURRAY: “Watching Pittsburgh play, that’s the motivation. They’ve got about five guys there, plus MacIntyre on the sideline, that you have to be heads-up to.
“Lewie and I had a talk, probably a couple weeks ago. My meeting at that time — it’s kind of confidential, I don’t like to talk about 1-on-1 meetings — but it was about being better. It has improved. It has gotten better. He’s an important penalty-killer. He’s one of our go-to guys in the penalty-kill look. On the other part of it, I still want and demand more, particularly on the offensive part of the game. I know he’s the center for the fourth line, but his numbers are not too bad, when you go back through his resume. As a player that is playing in that role, the goals normally are real greasy, hard goals. I need to see those once in a while. I know he’s not going to put those numbers up every couple games, but definitely there’s a time and a place, and you’ve just got to reall compete harder in those blue-paint situations.’’
We need better scouts, our first round picks besides Doughty have been pretty much big busts.
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
@Puckn-A, A better coach is more important.
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Puckn-A Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
@Kyle, True , however it wouldn’t hurt to have scouts that could use a #4 overall pick on a player ranked in the top 30 or better.
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Ekings Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
@Puckn-A, in reference to Hickey. Maybe you should watch some of his world juniors when he was the captain of the winning team. Also, did you know that when Mike Richards was drafted by the Kitchner Rangers, the guy who did it got fired. Sometimes when you see the leadership, its worth the risk. Also, D-men need to age. Dont be so down, he is still young.
RLane420 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
@Kyle, Our picks only do bad here. They go on to be pretty good on other teams. Just not getting a chance here.
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KC23 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@RLane420, Our forward picks.
wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@Puckn-A,
Yep, the scouts blew it picking Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown, Jonathan Bernier and Brayden Schenn. HUGE busts…not!
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Phillip Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@wavesinair,
They guys that drafted Kopitar and Brown were the result of Taylors scouting and drafting..(I also think they drafted Quick)those guys were let go when Lombardi took over.
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wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
@Phillip,
“Our first round picks” he said. He didn’t distinguish between eras.
That said, historically the Kings scouting and development has been abysmal bordering on non-existent. So any criticism of the current regime’s efforts is not only unwarranted, but totally uninformed. Our development of players is absolutely incredible compared to what it was.
As for this… “Those guys were let go when Lombardi took over.”
Not entirely true. Current senior pro scout Rob Laird has been with the Kings for 16 years and Amateur scout Brent McEwen has been with the Kings since 2004.
Puckn-A Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@Phillip, The last thing I am is uninformed, it is my opinion that we have wasted many first round picks, on mediocre players, that were considered mediocre by central scouting before those drafts occured.
kovalking96 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
@wavesinair, ya because Schenn is tearing it up in the NHL, lol
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wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
@kovalking96, Not a bust though. Brian Boyle as well.
Bleb Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
@kovalking96, Well the kid does have a broken ankle
Scootty Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@Puckn-A, Let’s name a few first round picks with the Kings, that are currently on the roster:
Kopitar, Doughty, Bernier, Lewis, & Brown. Lett’s also add in the 2nd rounders: Clifford & Voynov (Should be on the team). Let’s also add Schenn & Simmonds, a 1st & 2nd round picks, who the Kings dealt to get Richards. Scouting is the least of the Kings problems.
The talent is there for Murray, he obviously doesn’t know how to utilize that talent. He’s coaching style does not fit the new NHL.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
@Scootty, yes, it does.
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:32 pm
@fsd1,
The coaching style that sits a goalie after he just had 3 straight shutouts or plays a Westgarth over a Lewis doesn’t fit in any hockey league!
Puckn-A Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@Scootty, Tuebert, Lewis, Hickey , were terrible first round picks. Kopitar, Doughty and Brown were from Dave Taylors era. Bernier is a back up with awful #’s so far and has not lived up to the hype. The current scouts have not been to good with first rounders. Hickey was taken way to early, Lewis should of been a 2nd round pick and Tuebert was just a tough D-man with a small frame who we traded up for, which was dumb.
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Edward Reply:
November 6th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
@Puckn-A, Wish we can turn back the clock and kept Tuebert in that awful Penner deal. I think it’s time we cut losses and get rid of Penner and take our chances with some of the HUNGRIER kids in Manchester. Give Toffoli a chance to see what he can do with the big boys.
Kevin Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@Puckn-A, 2007 we could have got couture instead of Hickey. we got martinez all the way in the 4th round.
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BobKnob Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@Kevin,
Please be kind enough to identify the best picks BEFOREHAND. Cherrypicking draft mistakes isn’t productive and isn’t a valid argument. If you have concerns over who we pick, make sure you bring them up before the results are in.
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CB14 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@BobKnob, People love to bring up that draft yet they fail to point out we got 2 NHL’s out of that draft. Martinez and Simmonds. As well as 2 others who have played in the NHL, Dwight King and Oscar Moller.
Puckn-A Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
@BobKnob, When you choose a player projected for the 2nd round with the 4th overall pick you better expect “cherry picking” when he hasn’t cracked the line up in 4 years. Furthermore you shouldn’t be stoked the 17th overall pick is your hands of stone 4th line center 5 years after being picked.
For a player who was drafted so high, I’m sure Murray was thrilled when Trevor got a breakaway and shot the puck off the glass three feet above the net. At least get a shot on goal there Lewie…
Hope we don’t miss his PK skills in this game, though.
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Puckn-A Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
@Lanny McDonald’s ‘Stache, Yeah, sure glad we got Lewis instead of Claude Giroux.
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HockeyOnlyAwaitingModeration Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
@Puckn-A, That was funny
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goldielocks Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
@Lanny McDonald’s ‘Stache,
Yes. On breakaway, you need to at least hit the net or draw penalty. It was like when you see the breakaway, you got excited 100%, and then you realize it’s Lewis, excitement goes down to 50%, and when he misses the net it gets -50%.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@Lanny McDonald’s ‘Stache, Was at the game, and as soon as I realized it was Lewis going in on the breakaway, I immediately lost my excitement.
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crashin'da net Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
@PP Anybody?, was at the game too – 2nd level PR section. Don’t think it was 3ft over the net and also not so certain if he wasn’t hampered.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@crashin’da net, I was in PR 6, and don’t really think that it matters how far he missed or whether or not he may have been hampered. Only was expressing the feeling I had, because I have seen no offensive sheen from Lewis in the time he’s been here, so I didn’t feel he was going to score. He didn’t.
So Murray’s not giving Lewis a timeline to score goals, but then he’s telling him he wants to see those goals?
Like I’m not telling you when to score because it can’t be predicted, but I’m telling you to score?
Yeah………..ok?
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@Kingsfanone, Ha! Yeah, “we need to score more goals. So…Lewis, your out. Westgarth, your in”. WHAT???
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Yes, Trevor Lewis is the cause of all the offensive problems. Team speed also appears to be a problem addressed by this move as the Kings are known to be slow and Trevor does not fit in. The strategy is to bore everyone and win 1 – 0 in the shoot out.
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Blueline Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@Tom, Not that think Lewis is the issue, by far, but I’d rather win 1-0 in a shootout than be shutout 3-0.
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freezer flatten Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@Blueline, fellows, we lost our only shootout so far.
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I am trying desparetly to find out when the Kings skate on weekends. Rich seems to give advanced warning on the weekdays but nothing for the weekends.
I called TSC this morning & they told me the Kings would be on the ice from 10:00 to 12:00. So I drove 45 minutes & got there a little before 11:00 & they were gone. It was a long 45 minutes coming back home.
When the Kings had their first weekend practice Rich mentioned Group A would practice after Group B. Well he had it backwards & I got there for the later group which did not include any of the regulars.
I also called on a previos Sunday & were told the Kings would be practiceing & I went there & they were not. Maybe it’s just me or bad luck but I have gone down to the TSC three times this year & have seen no practices.
Rich I understand that you cannot always give a heads up on the weekend practices, but is there any place else I can check? The TSC people have given me the wrong answer twice alread. And it’s hard telling my son the reasoning as we are sitting in the car 45 minutes each way. Thank you.
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wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:13 pm
@Howe9,
For some reason, they Kings have not posted the practice schedule this year. Perhaps there isn’t any advanced scheduling this year from some reason or they just don’t want to release it. I don’t know.
Few things to consider though…
1. Practice times can change at the last moment without Rich knowing ahead of time.
2. The group stuff during camp changes a lot. No way to know.
3. The ice is reserved for the Kings I believe from 9-12ish just about everyday they are in town. I suggest coming no later than 10, even if Rich posted a time, just to be sure since you are driving far.
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Rich Hammond Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
It’s not a weekday/weekend thing. It depends entirely on when the next game is. Morning skates will almost always be from 10-10:30 a.m. Practices can run start anywhere from 10:30 a.m. to noon and last 45-60 minutes. TSC employees have no idea exactly when the Kings will be on the ice. They just know what times the ice is reserved. Murray sets the practice times and can change them in a heartbeat, but that’s the best loose estimate there is.
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Howe9 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@Rich Hammond,
Thanks very much. Waves & Rich. I apreciate the help & advice.
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
@Rich Hammond,
Do they put the puck in the net at practice? Is that something they work on or does Murray just teach them to cycle and call it a good shift? All this talent with no goals. Murray needs to go.
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wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@Kyle,
They put bulls-eye’s up on the glass behind the goal and the practice hitting them from the blueline for an hour. Anyone who hits the net must leave the ice in shame.
Kingsfanone Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@Howe9,
Don’t forget to check Rich’s post day/nite before also, as he’s pretty good at notifying us that if the team won’t be practicing the next day or morning. It still may be canceled at Murray’s whim for one reason or another also.
I live maybe 20-25 minutes away and have missed the team on the ice.
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I actually totally agree with Murray’s assessment of Lewis’ play. I bet we will see Fraser in that role pretty soon.
“As a player that is playing in that role, the goals normally are real greasy, hard goals. I need to see those once in a while.”
This describes Fraser to a tee.
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CB14 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@wavesinair, What bottom 6 forwards are scoring those goals? Lewis isn’t the only one not scoring. Stoll and Clifford are the only bottom 6 forwards with goals, yet Lewis gets benched. Plus IIRC, both Stoll and Cliffords were on the rush, not grind it out type goals.
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wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@CB14,
To be fair and clear, TM is talking specifically about the 4th line center position. Nothing else.
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CB14 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@wavesinair, Fair enough.
Westgarth skates like my little sister. Leave the physical play to guys who can actually check. Also, you need goals to win hockey games. Westgarth doesn’t know what a goal is (hes only been introduced to an assist twice in his career). Instead of worrying about who the other team is going to play, Murray should be worried about putting the puck in the net. Ill give him some grace though, after all, hes only seen one of those in the last 3 games. Both these guys are jokes.
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Belexes Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
@Kyle,
If a coach didn’t make lineup changes appropriate for facing a certain opponent, then he would be irresponsible. What if every time The Dodgers faced a lefthander, they didn’t respond by loading up with right handed batters? Any responsible coach will put out the lineup that he feels best matches up with the opponents.
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chip Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@Kyle, Yeah, OK. Still, I’m going to keep my smart mouth shut around your little sister.
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@chip,
With all do respect, Westgarth still doesn’t have a goal in his career. Lewis is at least capable. And we’re talking about hockey.
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“It’s kind of confidential, I don’t like to talk about 1 on 1 meetings” Then don’t Terry. No one asked you about it, or even knew about it.
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wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
@CB14,
Do! Do! I want any and all info that he is willing to reveal.
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CB14 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@wavesinair, Just pointing out every time TM contradicts himself, which has been happening alot lately.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@CB14,
“happening alot lately” is an understatement!
ok Lewis hasnt really did much i dont know why everyone crying about him…
4th and 3rd lines will not change anything.
So stop crying and let it see what its going to happen.
If it doesnt work than it doesnt work what we can do? Dean not going to fire him..
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I’m okay with Westie coming in, if given some ice time he adds elements other than scoring to the lineup. However, I would sit out Lumpy, (aka Penner) rather than Lewis. Also, what’s up with a sparsely attended “optional” skate? Ya, that’s great coaching for you, being shut out twice in the last two games plus uninspired play equals extra time off – they should have been bag skated.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
@#27 Forum Blue & Gold, yea, lets do a bag skate the morning of a game vs Pittsburgh, not very bright.
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@fsd1,
What would it hurt? They have 1 goal in 3 games. Who cares what they do in the morning.
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Edward Reply:
November 6th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@#27 Forum Blue & Gold, LUMPY, that is a new nickname……but I like Apple Fritter better….Penner must go, bring up one of the hungrier kids from Manchester!
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Off topic.
I’m watching the replay between Dal and Col. The most seats were empty, nevertheless the Stars playing really well. Think about Kings fans filling all those seats every game. Players can’t make excuses like ‘not enough effort’ or ‘it’s one of those games we are not performing’ or ‘after the long road trip, we are too relaxed’. And most importantly, coaches are obligated to make sure players are ready for the action every single game. It’s gonna be too late when they start seeing empty seats in the Staples.
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goldielocks Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@goldielocks,
Oh, and Matt Duchene got the first career hat-trick last night. Who woke the sleeping giant up? I love this kid by the way.
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BobKnob Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@goldielocks,
Pretty sure he got demoted to the 3nd or 4rd line a couple of weeks ago.
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goldielocks Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@BobKnob,
Talk about coach’s bold move payed off like the move on Ovechikin. In all of sudden, Duchene is now the team’s leading scorer.
wavesinair Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@goldielocks,
Dallas hasn’t made the playoffs 3 years in a row. Nuff said.
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Edward Reply:
November 6th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@goldielocks, There will never be empty seats at Staples! Too many people spend their cash going just to be seen……hockey was so much better at The Great Western Forum!!!! That is where the real fans actually go! Staples was built for the man with the deep pockets and corporate…..
Miss colonade Section 13 and middle of section…..GREATEST seats to watch a hockey game!
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The sign that we are a dominant team– when others adjust to us instead of us adjusting to them. We still have some work to do.
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goldielocks Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
@Kris,
Putting Westy in is the only adjustment TM can make I guess …
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Kris Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
“Watching Pittsburgh play, that’s the motivation. They’ve got about five guys there, plus MacIntyre on the sideline, that you have to be heads-up to.”
Needs to read– “We have size and skill, lets see if they can keep up”
TM seems more worried about how the Kings need to look out for the Pens. He should play our lines and let them worry about making adjustments to who LA has on the ice, especially when we are at home and have the last change.
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Kyle Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
@Kris,
This is the best point made yet on this page. TM has all this talent and hes getting shut out. Something needs to change behind the bench, and fast. Its not fun to watch the Kings lose, Terry.
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Let’s see, message from Murray is “if you play good defense, and don’t try and score, I’ll bench you. But if you try and score, and don’t play defense, I’ll bench you.” I for the life of me can’t figure out why players like Penner, Lewis, or anyone else on the Kings are having some trouble.
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All this change tells me is there will be a fight in the first 10 minutes tonight. It’s not about scoring goals.
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So we benched Lewis because he wasnt producing, but we leave Penner in. Lewismay not have a point yet but he is hustling on every play while Penner is just gliding along. Doesn’t make a lot of sesnse.
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someone asked for TM stats earlier……… 4 goals 76 assists 302 games……went from a plus 46 to a minus 14 in one season…….I believe the coach had wanted TM to play a heavier game and to have more of a “Shot Mentality”
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If the Kings lose tonight’s game and give us another lackluster performance, I will be very upset with TM still being our coach on Monday. Enough is enough, why keep up this charade any long? It’s obvious to me that the players just aren’t buying into the stoic, emotionless, zombie that is TM.
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ziggyfan Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
@Happy Lappy, I totally agree with you on this comment. TM needs to go. His decisions this year so far left me baffled, to say the least and I think he is not only losing the confidence of the players but just plain losing it.
I thought vs. EDM, Lewis was practically the only one skating and working hard to DO something and with as a 4th liner with limited time on the ice, not sure what TM wants Lewis to do. And of course, now he is out of line up. Not sure where and how TM is watching the game.
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Doesn’t matter if TM sits anyone because their not producing. It’s only gonna be 1 game for Lewis, so it’s not like he’s suddenly useless to the team. I don’t mind sitting him 1 or even 2 games to sit and watch. Just do something to change the play when he gets back, not just tell him to try harder, but play the same game that’s already not working for him.
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I don’t like taking out Lewis for tonight. He’s a top penalty killer and it’s going to hurt that third line moving Richardson off of it. I understand wanting Westgarth but I’d rather see Moreau or even Clifford in the press box instead of Lewis.
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freezer flatten Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@Dave, clifford isnt scoring or hitting. he is playing tm hockey.
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Harty Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
@freezer flatten, are you kidding, play this kid like you people recommend to play the slug Penner…….or why not trade him to Montreal or Edmonton both want him on thier 2nd line for size, speed and toughness…….
Penner should be gone, or pressbox why give him another start, Clifford has more points then him with less then 70% of the ice time………
Again are you serious
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Dave Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@Harty, I’d rather see Moreau out than Clifford but if you bring in Westgarth the team speed goes way down. If you take out Lewis it goes down even more and you lose a great penalty killer, plus you lose speed off of the third line when you send Richardson down to the 4th line.
what’s going to end up happening if the game is close is the Kings will sit the fourth line that second half of the game and Richardson will move up to the third line and Moreau will have a seat next to Westgarth and Clifford.
at least that’s what i hope happens – i’m not so sure the Kings will keep this game close.
Westie vs. McIntyre…oh the beatdown going to happen tonight. Get the sutures ready for Westie…Lewis will be back in as Westie is healing up… At this point TM has to be the one to Produce as his rear is begining to get near the hot seat… Should this team not get shots and score any goals… He could find himself as the scratch! John Stevens is the guy waiting in the wings to take control of this team.
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Edward Reply:
November 6th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
@kngfan004, Day after Penguins (without Cindy), McIntyre was a healthy scratch….Westie could have picked on Matt Cooke instead and goad him into another head hunting episode.
Speaking of Cindy Crosby, NHL Network previewed the Kings-Penguins matchup. Spent 8 minutes talking about Miss Cindy and Pittsburgh while spending 90 seconds on the Kings. Yep, I timed it.
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the whole bottom six has sucked offensively to this point. It’s no big deal to scratch any of them at any given time. The trick is, to find players who can actually chip in…
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If they’re going to sit Lewis, because he hasn’t scored a goal…instead of playing Westgarth, who’s never ever scored a goal…how about calling up Lokti???? With that being typed, Westgarth better score a goal tonight or I will be pissed at TM yet again!! Maybe Lokti could ignite Penner??? And while you’re at it, might be time to sit Martinez…he hasn’t been very impressive so far.
If I were in charge:
Parse Kopi Brown
Gagne Richards Williams
Penner Lokti Richardson
Clifford Stoll Hunter
DD/Mitchell
JJ/Scuderi
Voynov/Greene
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Harty Reply:
November 5th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@Chucker, your not
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Edward Reply:
November 6th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
@Chucker, I don’t know about that lineup Chucker…..Penner out, Moreau in. Moreau was the only guy on the team trying to heat things up against the Oilers the other night. PLUS, Moreau is the only one, other than Brownie, who has some chicklets missing. Shades of the hockey players of old.
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Forget Quick, put in Bailey.
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Edward Reply:
November 6th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
@skooma, YEAH and two of the Ice Crew babes on his wing. That will blow the opposition’s mind (flashback, Bad News Bears when Coach Buttermaker sent in Hooper, a paraplegic in a moterized wheelchair, to play Right Field in the championship game…..same concept).
GKG!
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