Will a return to the third line get Dustin Penner’s production going? Penner spent the previous two games in a first-line look, with Anze Kopitar and Justin Williams, and the result was one shot on goal, one minor penalty and a minus-2 rating. So, the Kings will try something different. With first-line winger Simon Gagne expected to return Thursday, Penner will return to the third line, alongside Jarret Stoll and Brad Richardson. That’s a role in which Penner seemed to have his best game of the season, last week in Dallas, so Terry Murray will give it another look Thursday. Penner has one point, an assist, in nine games this season.
MURRAY: “I don’t know if it was the fact that he started to play with Stoll and Richardson, or exactly what it was, but there seemed to be a little more work involved on his part of the game. I think there was more movement in the offensive zone, using his size. I liked the way he got involved in the physical part of the game, in several of those looks in the offensive zone in the past couple games. But I still feel that he is sometimes looking for the perfect play to shoot the puck. Get back to that movement, get back to cycling, get back to reading off each other, with a little better spacing in the offensive zone. When you work at that part of it, I think the offensive part falls in place much easier.
“His overall effort is good. His work is good. He started to show me that when I put him with Stoll and Richardson. So I just said, `I liked it.’ He liked it. I talked to him on the plane, on the flight to Dallas. We reviewed all of his shifts from the previous game. When you put it under the microscope, and watch the first period when he was with Kopi, and then the second and third periods when he was with Stoll, there was a lot of offensive-zone time. In fact, every shift that he was on the ice with Stoll and Richardson in the second and third periods, it was in the offensive zone. So when we watched it, clearly that jumps out at you, and he said, `Yeah, that looks pretty good. It felt good, too.’ That’s why I’m going to leave him with Stoll and Richardson. Keep bringing that work ethic to the game, most importantly, and the other parts of things will fall in place for him.’’
Those linemates have seemed to be the best fit for him so far. Play him there and as the front-net guy on the #2 PP and let’s see what develops.
[Reply]
I think it’s also worth taking a look at him on the 4th line. I know he’s being paid a lot to work fourth line minutes, but last year he had some of his best shifts playing alongside Lewis and Westgarth.
[Reply]
I know I’m usually the negative one around here, but I still say Penner deserves more time. His effort has been there, he even drew 2 penalties against Colorado. I know he hasn’t scored yet, but I’m not going to write him off. I think having less expectations to score by being in the bottom six will do Penner some good. I remember last year in the playoffs Penner played with Stoll and Westy on the 4th line for a game, and I thought played well. Mabye he and Stoll have some chemistry from their 1 year together with Edmonton? I don’t even know if they played together, but he and Stoll looked good together in Dallas. I’m hoping for the best.
[Reply]
Goring 19 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@CB14, I agree. I’m not gonna give up on Penner just yet. Sometimes when you get that first goal or two it takes the pressure off and gets you a little more comfortable in the game.
[Reply]
Helvetica Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@Goring 19, Seriously, the amount of pressure this guy must be feeling to score a goal has got to be crushing.
[Reply]
Deke'r Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 6:48 pm
@Helvetica, ….especially if he reads this blog!
Osaka Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 7:20 pm
@Helvetica, Then he shouldn’t be in the NHL.
Helvetica Reply:
November 2nd, 2011 at 11:32 am
@Osaka, I think, professional or not, anybody in his position would be feeling the pressure at this point. Even great hockey players go through slumps and you can just see them trying too hard. Now, i’m certainly not calling Penner great, but by this point i’d be surprised if he wasn’t holding that stick really tight about now.
jonsey Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 6:35 pm
@CB14, Agree
and Parse has taken too many penalties, and with Gagne back, there is no need to put the pressure on him. I say just let him play, turn him loose, and praise the heck out of him. Morale is important.
[Reply]
Chucker Reply:
November 2nd, 2011 at 3:01 am
@jonsey, Penner leads the Kings in Penalty Minutes.
[Reply]
Osaka Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 7:28 pm
@CB14, Give Westy Penner’s minuets, they are tied in scoring except Penner plays at least twice the minuets and on the second PP unit. How come nobody is concerned who Westy plays with? When Penner missed a game this season because of a bruised knee I knew he wasn’t going to pan out for us. He has played on all 3 top lines! What more can a player ask for?!?! The only complaint I have with Murray is giving Penner so many chances, but again Murray doesn’t have a choice. Dean gave up a lot to get him and he is making too much money to sit, gotta make it work with him in.
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 7:55 pm
@Osaka, That last line hit the nail on the head. We’ve got no choice, so we might as well make the best of it. I understand everyone’s frustration with Penner, but I just can’t understand how a guy who was on pace for 27 goals with Edmonton last year, came here and forgot how to score. I don’t get it. Last year we all said that he was out of shape and that he wasn’t use to TM’s defensive orientated system. By all indications his fitness is not an issue this year. So that leaves 2 possible problems. He either still can’t grasp Murray’s defensive orientated system, or he lost the goal scoring skill that he previously had. If I had to guess, I’d say the problem lies with Penner and the system. He either hasn’t grasped it yet, or he can’t play in it. I hope he can learn how to play within the system, because as much as I don’t like it, TM is likely to be Head Coach the rest of the year.
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:26 pm
@CB14, I think its too early to say that Penner is done, and can’t fit TMs system. I think he has been alot more effective this year than last. Forget about the system for a second, this year he missed most of preseason with an injury, and banged up his knee bad enough that he was hesitant about playing on. Just because doctors said its just bruised and there is no tendon or ligament damage doesn’t mean its not causing enough pain to limit his play messing up his balance or strength level. Then there is the merry go round of linemates he has had. I remember alot of the same type of things being written about Justin Williams before his break out last year. Definately alot of posts this season and last about Parse who now seems to be coming into his own. I would say a decision on Penner won’t be made until around Christmas. That will put him at around the 60 game mark as a King and with his contract expiring this season there will be no hesitation in moving him
if he is still not producing. My guess would be Toronto may take him, a multi team trade to get what we want may happen then as well. But I still hope he finds his groove and gets a couple or good bounces. I really haven’t seen him with any grade a chances this year.
CB14 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 9:02 pm
@luc20rules, I agree. In my main comment I said I wasn’t giving up on him just yet, but with that being said, I also understand why others have given up on him. I can see both sides of the story, and like you I’m hoping we’ll see improved play once he’s 100% healthy and after he gains some chemistry with his linemates, whoever that may be.
KC23 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 9:41 pm
@CB14, He did look better with Stoll and Richardson in Dallas, but the last two games were quite forgettable.
[Reply]
How bout the third line at Manchester? And then see if anyone is stupid enough to claim him upon re-entry ! That’s the only way out of this experiment.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:06 pm
@StankBloat, That’s a stinky idea.
[Reply]
Deke'r Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 6:50 pm
@Dominick, …ho ho ho…hee hee hee…ha ha ha…
[Reply]
Osaka Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 7:29 pm
@StankBloat, How about El Cid’s.
[Reply]
It’s all about chemistry and if he plays better with on the third then that makes our team that much better. Parse is finding the net on the 2nd so that helps Richards game too..Brown I’d like to see clock some people so he can become that power forward he’s shown to be in previous years.
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@KOHO, Totally agree. It is all about chemistry. In the final analysis, its not what line number you are on, it’s who you click with.
[Reply]
King Alex Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@puck73, +1. I am also sure we have not seen the end of the line changes Tinkerin Terry & The Shot Mentality have in store for Kings fans this season. I hope Penns can break out of this funk he is in & start putting up some points. Gotta get the big man in front of the net.
[Reply]
xeropoint Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 6:25 pm
@King Alex, “Tinkerin Terry & The Shot Mentality”….
Either a great band name or the name of his his book after he retires. Like.
luc20rules Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:31 pm
@King Alex, If the 1st book is a success then its sequel will be “Tinkerin Terry & Home Plate Coverage”.
Nothing to see move along, No really there is nothing to see with this chump
[Reply]
Answer to the question is, YES.
[Reply]
Hockey is a unique sport, because everyone plays. It’s not like you can be the 9th guy on the bench in the NBA, a utility infielder or the nickel back. Everyone has to produce. Penner has now played 28 games for the Kings and scored 7 points, 0.25 points per game. That would be 20 points over a season at that rate. I’m not sure what you can do. You certainly can’t trade him, who would take him with his salary? But the time is past for ‘more time’. In the NHL there just isn’t more time. You produce, period. He may end up being one of the most expensive 4th line guys in the league. He was supposed to be a 30 goal guy, 2 goals every 5 games. What a disappointment.
[Reply]
Weasel Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Donald_S,
If you really wanted to trade him I think you’d find takers. Not sure what you’d get back, certainly nothing that would help the team as much as Penner SHOULD be helping.
But,I’m still not convinced he won’t be really good with us. I’d like to see another 8-12 games first. If he’s still on pace for 20 points that would be a problem.
[Reply]
bringbackbutchgoring Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:39 pm
@Donald_S, Even that is misleading because didn’t he get 3-4 points in his first few games with the Kings?
[Reply]
kevin from toronto Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@Donald_S, It only works out to $472,222 a point…
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:34 pm
@Donald_S, Nickel backs play a larger percentage of the game then an NHL Enforcer.
[Reply]
Donald_S Reply:
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:13 am
@luc20rules,
Should have said a dime back or 3rd quarterback. You understand my point.
[Reply]
I’d like to see him on a line with TM and Kompon. Stoll and Richardson could be the defensemen. Stoll could shoot pucks high and wide right like he does on the PP and Kompon could chase them back to the blue line before they exit the zone.
Penner could stand in front deflecting pucks and Tm could stay high in the zone as the third forward. Of course, with Kompon chasing pucks back at the blue line, the Kings would have four players back nearly all the time. This would suit TM quite well.
This could only work if DL brought Frolov back as the coach. He could tell TM to play “hard and heavy” and make sure he has the proper “shot mentality.” Oh I almost forgot. Frolov would have to say “we need to play sixty minutes.”
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@Crown Royal, Well, I think that pretty much sums up the bad points about TM and Kompon.
[Reply]
Crown Royal Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@puck73,
On a more serious note, I believe Penner is trying to play better this season. He may just be one of many forwards who just can’t seem to play in TM’s system.
He needs to be around the net to score goals. If he’s not scoring goals, he needs to somehow create some space for the other Kings on the ice so they can score.
I’m not ready to give up on him yet but TM needs to quickly figure out something to make him more effective within the system. He’s big, strong, and has good hands. Go figure…
[Reply]
Weasel Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@Crown Royal,
Watching Poni (not) score last year is scary if you think it was a system limitation. Let’s hope that is not the case for Penner.
jet Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:48 pm
@Weasel, 3 pts in 12 games for the Canes this year. In line for 20 points this season.
jet Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:50 pm
@Weasel, same rate as with the Kings last season.
Seems like most players in the league play just a little bit harder vs. the club that traded them, so here’s to hoping that rings true and Penner actually gets his first goal, against his old team.
[Reply]
It’s the darndest thing with Penner. He’s a giant but he plays as though he were a 5’8″ playmaker. He loves to pass. I wish he’d simplify his game and just check and shoot, but he really seems like he’s the King’s version of Lebron James (well, only in that you wish he were a coldhearted killer who would use his size to destroy, but so far, he’s a really big man playing like a small one).
[Reply]
I am thoroughly convinced that the moment we trade this guy away he turns into a real bad ass on some other team. He’s got the size and soft touch, and now he’s (probably for the first time in years) put in a ton of work into conditioning. I’m not even going to get into the why’s of his point drought. All i’m gonna say is that, if it were me at the helm, I’d ride this guy out for the rest of the season unless for some strange reason a team offered a reasonable return on a trade. This guy is the whipping boy, and deservedly so, but i could see him finally finding his game over the next few weeks and really get on a tear. It’s got to be a confidence issue at this point and if he can string a couple of multi point games back to back, i think he’d take off.
[Reply]
KingsFan1971 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 10:43 pm
@Helvetica, I totally agree with every point you touched on!
[Reply]
letswinthecup2012 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 11:34 pm
@Helvetica,
sounds good to me!!
[Reply]
I was drooling at the mouth like a rabid dog when I read the headline of this discussion but I have decided to stay posotive about the whole Penner issue. However I would like to know, all the folks that claim they have not giving up on Penner, when will you?
[Reply]
Ian Reply:
November 2nd, 2011 at 10:50 am
@408kingsfan, I’ll give up on him when hes wearing another jersey.
I’m disappointed with the trade. It’s a joke seeing the biggest guy on the ice not use his size. I gave him an “F” when the report cards came out last year. I think hes grossly overpaid. But he is showing signs of wanting to be on the team this year.
So i’ll keep watching and believe he can turn it around. It’s a lot easier than flip flopping when he puts pucks in the net.
[Reply]
Kepp moving him around and sooner or later you make the trade that DL made ofr him positive.
This is crazy folks I cannot believe you will entertain this and agree, he is a liability.
Get rid of him now………
[Reply]
A lot off topic, but the Quack/Caps game was boring as hell until the last of the 2nd when Hiller badly misplayed a puck in the trapazoid. Now its 3-2 Quack all of a sudden & the Caps are all over them. It was just 3-0. Oops!
Caps smell blood in the water. I hope it continues!
[Reply]
Deke'r Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 7:09 pm
@Kingsfanone, The old man has 2Gs and 2As….someboddy get him off the ice!!
[Reply]
All kidding aside, assuming he doesn’t improve as a King, we really should be able to get something for him. He scored 30 or near 30 goals with both the Ducks and Edmonton and probably would have had 30 last year if he stayed with Edmonton. Somebody in the playoff hunt will want him, just like we did last year. I’d value him at a late 2nd round pick.
[Reply]
…and I thought Stoll’s $3.6 mil on the third line was expensive, sheesh!
Can anyone check, but I think we have the most expensive 3rd line in hockey right now:
Penner – $4.25 mil
Stoll – $3.6 mil
Richardson – $1.175 mil
Total – $9.025 mil
That’s 14% of the cap on a 3rd line! Just seems like a lot to me.
By comparison, Parse-Richards-Brown is just $9.875 mil
In case you’re wondering:
#1 line is $13.95 mil (Gagne-Kopi-Williams)
#4 line is $2.195 mil (Clifford-Lewis-Moreau)
In Order:
#1 – $13.95 Mil
#2 – $9.875 Mil
#3 – $9.025 Mil
#4 – $2.195 Mil
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@Cynic,
Cynic, I should know better than to stay away from your posts. Not only is it 14% of the cap hit. But it’s 14% on a total of one goal eleven games into the season. Watching the Caps Ducks tonight their third line (caps) had that many in one period. Ouch.
[Reply]
Did I actually read someone here thinks Penner can’t contribute offensively because TM has misused him?!?! The only way that happened was by putting skates on his feet. He has played on the top 3 forward lines, he gets PP time! The guy is given too much opportunity. How many games has Westgarth played? How many mins does Westgarth play in a game? PP time? 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line? They are tide in scoring! Westy made a nice play for his point, I say play Westy and sit Penner. Greene is outscoring Penner! Why not give Clifford Penner’s opportunities, Cliffy has a goal. El Sid’s is calling Penner, batter up.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:01 pm
@Osaka,
But baseball season’s over.
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:31 am
@number 6,
But softball season is just starting
[Reply]
It’s so obvious….
[Reply]
I think we’ve seen enough to come to the conclusion that Penner should not be resigned after this season.
I’d rather get a solid 20-goal scorer than hope for this guy to step up to the level that he’s supposed to be at.
Hopefully Dean is on top of this as well.
[Reply]
Penner will be inspired by nothing. I am just as much of a die hard Kings fan as anyone, I want nothing more than everyone to just go APE CHIP and have an amazing season, and click, but I really don’t ever see this guy taking his game to a normal level, let alone the next one.
I think it’s a matter of weeks before Lombardi subjects this guy to waivers, he simply has not earned this roster spot, and he seems like he’s going to do more to supply it than to secure it.
Do the right thing management, this guy is absolutely hard to watch.
[Reply]
I liek penner on the third. If him and stll can form some chemistry that coudl make for three lines that “should” be a threat to score.
[Reply]
I was at the Phoenix game Sat and I watched the warm ups. I particularly focused on Penner. He seemed so dissinterested. He broke his stick on a slap shot and the expression on face indicated to me that he felt hopeless. Amart ribbed him a bit and Penner did not even smile. The guy seems to lack confidence. My wife noticed the same thing.
[Reply]
he’s a cupcacke
[Reply]