At least by the numbers, tonight’s game is shaping up to be a low-scoring affair. The Kings came out with a 1-0 victory over the Stars on Saturday. The Stars have allowed two or fewer goals in eight of their first nine games, while the Kings have allowed two or fewer goals in six of their first eight. Jonathan Quick and Kari Lehtonen are ranked first and third, respectively, in goals-against average and save percentage among goalies who have started at least five games. It’s early, but so far the Stars have transformed themselves from a team that averaged 2.84 goals against last season to a 1.89 goals-against average this season, a trend, Terry Murray said, that extends far beyond Dallas.
MURRAY: “We’re seeing it around the league right now. Every team is pulling back and is very structured on the checking part of the game. My goodness. I don’t know what that evolves out of, quite honestly. You literally have four across at the blue line. You see Tampa last year, their defenseman is right back, about five feet in front of their crease. It’s becoming a style of play that we’re seeing, literally, by everybody in the league right now. So that makes it more difficult to score, there’s no question.
“Anything on the rush is almost literally impossible. Your puck recovery now, and puck placement on the forecheck, is critical. You’ve got to have some speed coming to those pucks, because most teams now have that defenseman back and in position to recover the puck before you get there. So it’s very much a timing issue. When you do get puck recovery, you’ve got to take the best advantage of it that you can, through cycling and getting something happening to the net.’’
No Murray.
So you have guys set up stationary at the blue line to tip pucks deep. But you want speed too? Which is it?
So sick of his dump and chase and blue line pray for a deflection shot mentality.
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tantrum4 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
@Winger23,
Then watch another sport. Every team does it
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Kaiser Soze Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@tantrum4, I disagree. Seems like a lot of teams we play against, carry the puck into our zone and then shoot. It’s be nice if we tried the same thing.
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Jeff Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@Kaiser Soze, And it’s worked so well for them hasn’t it, 5-2-1. I’ll take that evey 8 games all season long.
Michael J. Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
@Kaiser Soze,
Like it has been said many times before: If the play is there they will carry it in – if there are four D lined up across the blue line there is no other option than to dump it in.
That is how hockey works.
Deke'r Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@tantrum4, Roger that….
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KingsGuy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Winger23, I thought we we doing a much better job on bringing it across the blue line – not just dump n chase every time.
Only time I have consistently been seeing the stationary tip in is when we are making a line change.
I do agree on the shoot at net and pray to gets deflected. “Dirty goals” I see plenty of other teams making great cross ice one time passes meeting the back of the net. Or even San Jose with their, drop passes. Look pretty
Bottom line, we have the players and talent to be putting in some nice goals. Maybe we can just patent the Kopitar lob pass!
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Michael J. Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
@KingsGuy,
To me, the Kings are skating the puck across the blue line more often than the past few years. I think that is directly related to the talent upgrade and the room defenders give because of that talent.
Ths stationary tip in is usually employed when they need a line change.
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KingsGuy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@Michael J., Exactly!
Michael J. Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@KingsGuy,
After further review… it looks like I didn’t read your post very closely.
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nykingfan Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@Winger23,
The object is not to be stationary at the blueline and then chase the puck. The outlet pass from your own zone has to be tape to tape. If it is, you can then dump the puck and go in with speed to recover the puck.
You may not like dump and chase but when the D is lining up 4 at the blueline how else are you getting the puck deep without turning it over at the blueline?
This is the way the game is played now. You keep pucks out of your own net and capitalize on opportunities and turnovers.
Take a look at the stats around the league. There are only 5 tems in the NHL averaging 3 goals a game or more. Games are being won 2-1. Welcome to the new NHL.
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Winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@nykingfan,
This is my point. there is NO SPEED when they are stationary at the blue line.
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tomb Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
@Winger23, if you stack all the players in front of the net it would be almost impossible to score.
Harrison Merkin Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@nykingfan, Welcome to the New Old NHL.
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Chris P. Bacon Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Winger23,
The funny thing is, if you watch closely and understand hockey, the Kings have been passing a lot more than previous seasons. That is also why we’re seeing tons of turnovers being committed this year. There are times I wish we could revert back to playing “heavy”, getting the puck deep, checking the crap out of teams. I miss guys like Simmonds, Zeus, Fro where they would dominate down low and control the puck. Where the hell is Kyle Clifford this year?
“pray for a deflection shot mentality”…so you don’t want Doughty, Johnson, Martinez, Voynov involved in the play? Let the forwards do all the work? We might as well sign a bunch of Matt Greenes and Scuderis, there no need for any offensive defenceman.
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Winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@Chris P. Bacon,
The Kings have to show they are willing to play down low and in the slots for the points to open up. Right now teams are daring the Kings to go into the middle but they still won’t.
Of course I want Doughty, Johnson etc involved. Doesn’t mean they have to sit on the blueline either. They need to be given the green light to be more aggresive.
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ten for instigating Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@Winger23, Im starting to believe some people on this blog dont actually watch the games but rather just use the same lines from last year. Dump and chase? I’ve only noticed the Kings dumping the puck in when they have to. There has been a lot more entering the zone with the puck then there has been in the past. Even the fourth line has been entering the zone with the puck.
At least there has been no fire Kompon in a few games. Makes me miss Anthonyy sometimes. At least it was funny how much he beat one uninformed opinion to death.
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Winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@ten for instigating,
1) Kompon has been getting a break lately as I think the Kings have had only 2 PP’s in the past 2 games (I could be wrong on this).
2) Don’t watch the games? Did you even read what Murray is saying needs to happen? Kopitars line is the only one that remotely comes close to carrying the puck into the zone. The 4th line, as you claim, might get a foot inside the blue line but then they still dump the puck in. I’d be amazed if you could point out more than once or twice where the Kings have entered the zone, and was able to make more than a single stick to stick pass off a non-dump in.
The only person uninformed around here is TM that his system does not work.
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fsd1 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Winger23, was it the freaking system that won us 5 games or not? Geeze, I guess what you mean to say is everyone disregarded the coach, played their own system and thats why we won. ARGH!
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@fsd1, We won because Jonathan Quick played his butt off every night. Did you miss the 3 straight shutouts that he posted?
fsd1 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@Winger23, oh please, Last time i checked its a team game. Or was the post the only one playing for us? Dont miss a game, and i usually watch them twice, want to know anything else?
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@fsd1, I’m not disagreeing with you that it’s a team game, but over a short period of time a goalie can stand on his head and single handidly win the team the games. Last time I checked the only games the Kings have won are the games when Quick has stood on his head. We haven’t won a game when the other team has scored more than 2 goals, and Quick has only allowed 4 goals in our 5 wins. I’m not saying that our defensive system didn’t play a large part in those games, but Quick is not going to continue to have a .972 save percentage the rest of the year. Our offense is going to have to win us some games, which so far this season it has failed to do so outside of 1 game which was also a game where Quick was outstanding.
winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
At least cb14 gets it. The kings offense has been below average at best. If kopi isn’t scoring neither are the kings.
winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
At least cb14 gets it. The kings offense has been below average at best. If kopi isn’t scoring neither are the kings.
Murray, stop trying to use the Mike Richards line in a shutdown role…that’s Stoll’s job now. Free the Penner-Richards-Brown line to be an offensive threat. What’s the point of trading for one of the best centers in the league, and then putting him in a shutdown role?
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Chris P. Bacon Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@kostamojen,
Because that is what Mike Richards has done in his career. Did you not know this?
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fsd1 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Chris P. Bacon, they just dont get it, do they?
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DLB Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@fsd1, it’s good to use Richards for that, but they need to give him Gagne or some other wingers that can handle it.
Murray didn’t use the old “Shot Mentality” catch phrase.
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Shakes Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@Kings Fan Vancouver, WA,
+1
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iansez Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
@Kings Fan Vancouver, WA, You’re right! Didn’t notice a “hard and heavy” either…
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Well TM………the good news is that all 30 teams have to deal with it……..Bad news is we’re on the wrong side of average in beating it right now. Let’s get some offense, and kick this thing in gear.
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I am a kings fan, not an offense fan….. Geez. DUMP N CHASE, DUMP N CHASE!!!!!!!!
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Winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@Lake Forest,
Yup scoring is soo overrated.
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AZ King Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@Winger23,
So if we win 5-1 so we get more points that if we win 2-1? Nope.
If goals mattered that much Washington would be a Stanley Cup dynasty right now. So yes scoring is overrated. The only people it really matters to are the fans.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@AZ King, Washington just maybe a bad example to use this year. A couple years back, they were all offense. That didn’t pay off. Then, last year they decided to go all defense. Well that didn’t work for them either. This year, they are back to scoring a lot, AND playing good defense. To me, it looks like they are trying very hard to make ADJUSTMENTS, cause I think they really have a goal, which is to win the Stanley Cup. I give a lot of credit to Boudreau. He has taken a lot of flack the last few years, but seems to be willing to make adjustments to try and find the winning formula. Maybe it still won’t work, but I’d say at this point they look a lot more like contenders than the Kings do.
DLB Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
@AZ King, Boston was #1 in even strength scoring last year. It comes in handy.
PhillyKing Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
@Winger23, As evidnent from Tuesday’s game.
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if we get Offense thats when Pigs start flying this team doesnt got the right players to score goals…oh wait we do then god something wrong with this picture
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Belexes Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@KingsFanFTW,
Actually pigs can fly! You got your wish!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8yN1sNxWg8
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@Belexes, LOL thats free falling i mena like birds they fly and dont stop into they want to
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In order to go to the net, you need to get the puck on the net. We keep missing it with our point shots or entry shots (the notable exception being JJ’s winner on Saturday). Crash the net, pick up rebounds and we will score, which we have already shown. Yes, the price is not fun, namely getting the you-know-what kicked out of you, but that also draws penalties which lead to PP’s which.. oh, sorry, what was I thinking (even though we seem to be better)… leads to goals. We have a great team with great players. Now the coaches have to do their part and give them the opportunity to score.
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Winger23 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
@DesertKing,
You can’t really blame the Dmen for not getting shots through. Murray’s system is easy to defend. Thats why you will see the forwards sticking to the defensemen at the blueline. They dont have to worry about cross ice passes cause there wont be any. Count how many times shots are blocked or prevented from the point tonight.
I’m not trying to nag here, but this hasn’t worked for 3 years now.
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DesertKing Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
@Winger23,
No argument from me
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@Winger23, If there was a textbook game to show how a defense is taking our point shot options away, it would be the NJ game. They were really prepared for that. The NJ 3rd forward would just post up just below the point man along the boards and take away the pass that our forwards would make along the boards back up to the blueline. They knew that was where we were going to go with the puck, and took it away every time. TM never made an adjustment, and all game long it was like a broken record.
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fsd1 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@Winger23, yes you are, throughout every thread, and i will take what we have gotten the last 3 years.
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CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@fsd1, You will take a first round playoff exit this year? I won’t, and neither will the players.
fsd1 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@fsd1, did you read it or not, I said the last 3 years, no I would not be happy with a first round exit and I’m not expecting it either.
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@fsd1, Good to know that we’re on the same page with regards to the Kings doing better than a first round playoff exit.
Just one thing though. The Kings are still encountering the same exact problems they had last year, and the year before, a lack of offense. Do you expect that to change this year? Because if it doesn’t change, I don’t see any way this team is better than last years team, and thus we will likely see the same result.
fsd1 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@CB!4, what I am looking for is more than 7 games to let the team establish an identity is all, when they do I see great success coming our way.
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@fsd1, Ok. Fair enough. I posted this question last night mainly to player-X and Osaka, because that’s who I had the discussions with, but I’d like your opinion on it as well because you also believe strongly that the system works.
During the off-season I had numerous discussions with other people on this blog arguing the problem with the Kings lack of scoring. I said it was the system, they said it was the lack of talent and that now that we have the talent, I’ll see improvements. We’ll I don’t see any improvements so far. What gives?
If you’re going to say that 8 games is still too soon to call it, ok, that’s fine, but please give me the amount of games the Kings have to play before we make a decision on talent vs system. I will keep track and we’ll discuss it at the time you say it will be. Thank You.
I understand you’re not ready to call it, but just let me know how many games into the season it will take for us to answer the question of if this system will work now that we’ve got the talent needed to make it work. Thanks fsd1.
Just looking at the stats, Kings are actually second in GAA, with 1.47.
But in GFA, they’re 24th, one behind the Quacks. That’s not gonna get it done. It’s that same problem with the Kings. Offense, either even strength or on the PP.
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Lake Forest Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@vplaza, If we win every game 1-0, you wouldn’t be ok with that?
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vplaza Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@Lake Forest,
Sure, but I wouldn’t bet the farm we shut out every team we play every night. Gotta be realistic.
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KingsGuy Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@Lake Forest, I am! Although it may cause me to have a few heart attacks!
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DesertKing Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@Lake Forest,
I would be okay with that. Heck, I would be okay with what we have done recently with the 4-1 record. Losing 1 out of every 5 gives us the Division. The problem is the defense and goaltending have to be perfect every minute of every game (or really really lucky!) and that ain’t going to happen.
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AZ King Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@vplaza,
But it has been getting it done. I would love more offense, and I believe it will come, but it doesn’t matter how many goals we have as long as it’s more than the other team. That’s all that matters.
Keep in mind that our last 3 games (and our next 2 for that matter) have been against teams that live and die by defense. You’re lucky if you get more than 2-3 against NJ, DAL, or PHX. For what it’s worth you can add us to that list as well.
I’ve said it before. TM’s style is boring so fans hate it. That doesn’t mean it’s not effective.
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CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@AZ King,
New Jersey gives up 2.14 goals per game, the Kings scored 0.
Phoenix gives up 2.88 goals per game, the Kings scored 2.
Dallas gives up 1.89 goals per game, the Kings scored 1.
Judging by those numbers it’s safe to say the Kings averaged at least 1 goal per game below what those teams give up. That’s Below Average to me.
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CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
Also, for what it’s worth, both New Jersey and Dallas were playing their back-up goalies.
AZ King Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
@CB14,
That’s some funky math because 2.88 isn’t 3, and 1.89 isn’t 2. So they’re scoring .88 and .89 goals less. Yeah they’re way under performing. I know what you saying, but it comes down to semantics.
As for the back up goalie thing, Raycroft used to be a starter and has played well against the Kings in the past, and Hedberg has found his niche in NJ the last couple years. When Brodeur went down last year Hedberg played well considering how bad the team was around him.
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@AZ King, OK, lets get specific. The Kings scored 4 goals total against those 3 teams in 4 games. Remember they played the Devils twice. Those 3 teams give up on average 2.2916666666666666667 goals per game. The Kings averaged 1 goal per game against those 3 teams. So the Kings have averaged 1.2916666666666666667 goals per game LESS than what those teams give up.
Also, I’m not saying they aren’t quality back-ups, they are, but they’re not starters, that’s all I said.
AZ King Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@CB14,
AZ King Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@CB14,
LOL, well if you put it that way…Like I said I know where you’re coming from, and I respect your point. I’m just looking at it a little differently.
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
@AZ King,
Lake Forest Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@CB14, We beat 2 out of 3 of those teams…..not sure where the problem is against Dallas or Phoenix. And those are both Division games, which are a heck of a lot more important.
CB14 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
@Lake Forest, JQ had shutouts in both those games, enough said.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we actually do better tonight with Penns on LW3 and Parse on LW2.
At least the whole second line has a chance to enter the O zone on time, together, three up … you know, without Penns as the boat anchor on the wrong side of the blue line.
Penns will do swell on LW3. He can be the the F3 up high while Stoll and Ritchie crash the boards and net.
Just need to wake up Cliffy and get him to put the hurt on this team like last year.
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rick Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@Token, Every year we have: “The guy the fans overrated the previous year.” Simmonds played the role last year. Clifford will take his spot this year.
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AZ King Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
@Token,
The success of Pens on the 3rd line is going to depend on his ability to back check, and be opportunistic when he has the chance to score. If he can come out with a strong effort I do think this is a good move for him. Hopefully he can score a couple and get his confidence back up.
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Stuart Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
@Token, “At least the whole second line has a chance to enter the O zone on time, together, three up … you know, without Penns as the boat anchor on the wrong side of the blue line.”
The only bad part to that is when DB fires a weak shot from the just inside the blue line that gerts blocked and then we have 3 forwards going to the net when the puck and 4 of the other team are going towards ours… In fact, I probably shouldn’t complain anymore when his shot gets deflected into the netting, at least it’s not an odd-man rush the other way… it is so aggravating to see the 2nd lines TOI wasted in that way!!!
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Token Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@Stuart, He only does that cuz the LW ain’t there for the pass instead of the low chance shot.
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Stuart Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@Token, I’ll take your word for now, but I’ll be watching for what the situation is when it happens tonight…
Stuart Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
@Token, and I know for certain that there has been at least 6x’s that it’s happened when his linemates are still on the rush with him, not even at the net yet, right beside him crossing the blue and he just launches it towards that end of the rink, one of the times he sent a super-weak backhand floating to the goalie (that one had me screaming full-bore). Maybe there’s an excuse, but most are inexcusable rush-killers.
Wow, so I guess that gets TM off the hook then. I guess it’s just hard for everyone to score. I mean, just look at the trouble Washington is having, and Colorado is having, and the Penguins are having, and Toronto is having, and Tampa Bay is having. Yep, league-wide epidemic. No fault in the system after all.
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I think the thing the Kings can most immediately benefit from is the activation of 4th on the rush, which should always be one of Doughty/Voynov, Johnson, or Martinez. The forwards are almost always asked to do the rest of the work on breakouts once they receive the half-wall pass to the winger. Because the team is so positionally oriented, the defensemen hesitate to take the middle lanes on the breakout, even though they often have great opportunities to act as a pseudo-center and accept the pass back from the winger and get the puck moving with speed out of the zone.
What I’ve noticed is the D tends to hang back and allow the wingers to try to catch up to the center on the rush, who by this time, is probably 5-7 steps in front of any other Kings player, or may just have one passing option to the far wing. This is where I really disagree with Murray’s system — you’ve got an offensive-oriented defenseman on each pair, yet the general tendency is to play like a stay at home defenseman. I see a good trend in defensemen amping up the pinching pressure this year, but I think it has to start in your own zone.
I also think the Kings have struggled for a long time with the netural-zone/puck possession regroup. The D-to-D passes are ok, but you can see they have a hard time finding an open forward with speed to accept the puck.
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Crown Royal Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@He Shoots, He Scores,
Agree. Remember when the main Kings PP breakout was to pass the puck wide then have Rob Blake bring the puck up ice right down the middle lane of traffic? There are lanes available for the D-Men to move up the center of the ice when the wingers are wide.
Tm wants everybody stationed like robots waiting for the counter attacks.
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Check the top teams for the Goals per game…some teams find it possible.
I guess it’s a miracle?
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One thing I DO appreciate about TM. He makes himself available to Rich all of the time, and we all get first hand insight from the coach, almost every day. That’s pretty cool. Of course…we then go off and opine away… but hell..it’s fun!
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We have two of the best offensive defensemen in the league, and Voynov seems to fall into that mold as well. I think you have to activate those boys from time to time, especially when you have very good defensive forwards to back you up. Take the pressure off Quick and take a chance one in a while, I have never seen such boring hockey offensively in my life. Ok, I’m ready to get blasted by those who will say, hey, at least we’re winning now. To them I say this, mechanical, structured and robotic weren’t exactly what hockey was ever meant to be, it’s too great of a sport to be turned into this crap, just my opinion folks.
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Cmon coach, move Clifford up, why put in Parse when Clifford can dig out the pucks, go on the attack, he is ready, he will score goals and put up points.
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According to TM, his quagmire system is spreading all over the nhl to produce boring hockey everywhere, and not just here at home
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Anybody want to take a crack at where we rank in blocked shots against?
One thing I would like to see is Brown and Richardson not shoot the puck into the d-mens’ skates every second shot. Brown’s been doing it for years and it’s never been corrected. I’m not talking blocked shots here, I’m talking shots INTO the skates. Look for an opening, stickhandle a bit, use the d-man as a screen, don’t just launch it into the netting.
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