Five of the Kings’ top six forwards have had their moments early this season. The first line of Anze Kopitar, Simon Gagne and Justin Williams got off to a strong start. Mike Richards has been a force on the power play. Dustin Brown had a two-point game against St. Louis. Then there’s Dustin Penner, who has zero goals and one assist in six games. Penner’s start has been a tough one, given that he missed a part of training camp with an injury then was also slowed for a while by a bruised knee. After practice today, Terry Murray met with Penner in his office, then shared his thoughts on Penner’s recent play…
MURRAY: “His game has been good in some games. I thought his game against Dallas, two games ago at home, was his best game of the year. He was skating well. He was pretty responsible on the checking side of it. He did use his size. He had some scoring opportunities. The game last night was a little bit of a drop-off. The conversation that we just had was about that. The whole concept with him right now, for me, is to keep working hard with the intensity, get that game to a higher consistent level and, when you do that, I think good things will happen on the offensive part of the game.’’
blahblahblah… move your shift Penns!!!
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Peter90210 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@Stuart, I don’t get it. This guy is a veteran, not some kid who doesn’t know what’s involved. Given that it’s a contract year for him, you’d think he would be playing his heart out every shift. But after watching him closely last night, seeing him stand around waiting for the puck to get to him, watching him blind pass to areas where no one was, watching him getting rid of the puck when he had time to hang on and make a smart play…. well, I’m ready to give up on this guy. Is he afraid of getting hurt?
I’d trade my grandma, my fifth born, and my used yacht for his size, contract, and chance to play in the top six…And I could promise you I’d give 1000 percent every shift.
Get with it Pens. Stop embarrassing yourself with the fans.
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In the Net Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
@Stuart, His cardio just isn’t what everyone else’s is. He’ll go full bore for 20 seconds like everyone else, but unlike everyone else he is gassed halfway through the shift. He begins standing around and at the first chance he’s skating toward the bench holding his hand up. He almost never comes off the ice with the rest of his line-mates. Watch him sometime–if you just watch him for a few shifts, it’s amazing how little stamina he has compared with the other forwards. And this isn’t just because he’s rounding into game shape. He was the same way in the playoffs last year. I say trade him to Winnipeg for a draft choice. Can you imagine how long Philly would put up with his play? I wonder how Pat Quinn would’ve handled him?
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Stuart Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
@In the Net, his stamina is an issue…I forget the game, but I commented on it when it was happening, he was super gassed, I mean only moving forward because he was leaning on his stick. He was at “guarding” the point but was really just standing there because his only other option was to fall down. He does get easily gassed, and to think that he’s in the best shape of his career right now??? I don’t get it either. Maybe he is best suited to bring some type of game out of Westy and the 4th line… If he can get Westy 15-20 points while chipping in the same for himself on the 4th line, I’m ALL FOR IT!!!
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Bottom line is, he is a top six forward, he needs to produce on the scoreboard
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RobSD Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
@tornado12,
He really isn’t from what I’ve seen.
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
@tornado12,
Bottom line is that he was a top six forward. Last year he forgot how to skate and compete. This year he forgot how to handle and pass pucks.
Clearly he can do better.
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Tomb Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 10:01 am
@USHA#17, put him on the top line with Kopitar and see what happens. He needs to score a goal or two to get his confidence back.
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
@Tomb,
I happen to agree with you. Kopital and Williams do most of the buzzing. If Penner can play the in and at the top of the circle he may be just fine. But his style does not mix with Brown, at all.
Take him off a line with Brown! They cancel each other out!
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tacomakingsfan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@Andrew: the second coming,
Maybe he can cancel himself out and ask for a trade?
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Helvetica Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@Andrew: the second coming, Not trying to be obtuse, but how exactly do they cancel each other out? Are you saying they perform the same role? …because i’m not sure i agree.
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Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
@Helvetica, Yes they both play big in front of the net in our set offense. Both power forwards driving to the net. Only thing is i’ve seen a bunch of time were both go the same exact way and just clog up passing lanes and the puck gets turned over. I feel like on should be moved up. To give Richards more options, either give it to the big guy(brown or penner) down thou or the sniper(gagne or jdub) at let him get a shot off. Also for those who say well Kopi, Gags, and Jdub are all snipers. no. they aren’t. Kopi is a two way beast. Gagne likes to play around the net and pick of rebounds or hang high and look for the one time. Williams does his job perfectly which is draw people out of postion and cause havoic and capatilaze.
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Helvetica Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
@Andrew: the second coming, I see what you’re saying, but i disagree some what and i’m not sure moving him pays dividends. Penner is a big guy who doesn’t really use his big body and strength all that much. He could play in front of the net, but i’m not sure that’s where he’s most comfortable. Brown, isn’t that big, but usually plays strong. Throwing checks and making power moves (when he’s effective). I can’t really say whether they both do or do not go the same way and clog lanes, but systematically, that shouldn’t be happening.
You could potentially move him up to kopitar’s line, but gange has been playing well there. You could move him down to line 3, but his weakness seems to be his defensive responsibility. And, theoretically, if you are right about his game, then he’d sort of be doing the same thing as Moreau. And obviously, 4th line is out. I guess, you move him up with Kopi ( i think thats what you were suggesting).
I just feel like, the problem isn’t Penner and Brown on the same line, it’s Penner playing Murray’s system. He’s just not suited to it.
Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@Helvetica, So, I’m just saying that having a big body on each line to be in the front of the net will clear space up. Two bodys in front of the net for the kings means no shots get thru.
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FdoFmFull Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@Andrew: the second coming, Are we to assume that Murray also pulled Brown into his office like he did Penner and explained that eventhough he had a 2-point game against St Louis, he’s been doing zilch the rest of this season?
Matter of fact, for all you Penner haters, I dare you to view the last three games and rate Penner vs. Brown – I think Penner has outplayed him hands down!
Come to think of it, when was the last time Murray even hinted any displeasure with Brown’s play? Probably never since it seems to be that no one is willing to call Brown out on anything. You ever notice how Fox never critiques Brown’s obvious buzz kill errors all over the place? That’s it, let’s all “toe the company line”. LOL!
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
@FdoFmFull,
sorry but I disagree. Last night Penner was an “special type of bad”. He handles pucks like he has two broken wrists, his new specialty, one handed passing.
For the past three games Penner has taken the second line out of the game, and Richards with it.
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@FdiFmFull,
And let me add that I was one of those who called for the Kings to pick up Penner early last season and I had very high hopes for him.
My emotions tell me that his game will even out and he’ll pan out as a productive wing but my eyes tell me differently.
wes Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:06 am
@FdoFmFull, wow. “for all you Penner haters, I dare you to view the last three games and rate Penner vs. Brown”– i’d ask, ‘are your serious?!’ but apparently you are. perhaps i should ask, ‘are you drunk?’ the Kings have scored 3 goals in those 3 games, Brown has had everything to do with 2 of those 3, and scored the game winner against Dallas. still “daring” me to compare “Penner vs. Brown”? (sorry, laughing)
OK then, let’s do some more of that…
Penner, putative ‘top 6′ forward that he is, has posted a total of 1 point (a second assist) _for the season_ to date; and what (if totaled since the acquisition) would be equivalent to about half a season, scored what– 2 goals?! perhaps you missed the St Louis game. check out Brown’s perfect set-up for Stoll’s goal– remind me of when Penner set up a teammate like that. (i’m hearing crickets). couple of shifts later, Brown hammered one in himself. remind me of when Penner last had a 2 point game remotely comparable. (more crickets).
Penner hasn’t been worthy of carrying Brown’s lunch box.
as USHA#17 rightly noted, Penner “handles pucks like he has two broken wrists.” noticing this has nothing to do with “hate.” don’t know how anyone could argue against that, unless they were drunk perhaps.
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wes Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:38 am
correction, the game i had referenced as being against the Stars was actually against the Coyotes. anyway, the facts otherwise remain. but while here, i may as well beat this dead “Penner is better than Brown” pony a bit more: Brown consistently draws the ‘special’ assignments entrusted only to the most disciplined and dependable players: (1) 4-on-4 regular season OT, (2) PK, (3) PP, (4) shoot-out. where Brown goes 4-for-4, Penner draws a goose egg– right now no sane coach in the world would let Penner anywhere near any of those assignments. you can call it “Penner hate,” but it’s just noticing the real world.
Just get rid of him
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Drop him like 3rd period French.
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This guy has been a disappointment all over.
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Sadly, he is playing pretty consistent…
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@Kevin, haha truth
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“Murray wants consistency from Penner”
Don’t we all.
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Hey Rich – not sure if this is the right topic to put this in but thanks for the awesome article on Gagne “A World Class Addition” – great stuff!!! Appreciate all of your work!
Incase anyone didn’t see it here’s the link
http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=597397&navid=DL|LAK|home
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He is consistent. Consistently BAD!
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In the first 405 games of Penner’s career (including the bad year in Edmonton) he averaged almost 0.60 points per game. In 25 games in L.A., it’s 0.28 points per game. His productivity has fallen off a cliff. I believe that some players just don’t fit in Terry Murry system (i.e. Matt Molson) who do well elsewhere. It’s looking like Penner is one of those players.
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RobSD Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@Donald_S,
You mean Murray’s system stifles productivity? Nooooooooooooooooooo
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tornado12 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@Donald_S, when players have never been held accountable in the defensive zone their whole career and then move to a Defense first system, well lets just say there is an adjustment period
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DesertKing Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@Donald_S,
Normally I would accept that, but body language doesn’t lie and the signs are pretty obvious when you watch him play. He isn’t putting forth any effort, which is sad, because when he has, he has done well. We watched him play on Saturday, and as Murray said, I thought he had a pretty good game. Twice he used his large size extremely well, and the crowd rewarded him for it. He even made some nice passes and appeared to be into the game. Guess that wasn’t the case last night.
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@DesertKing,
His positioning in the Defensive zone is not bad. In fact its a huge improvement over last year. I am seeing him hustle back at times.
But as a productive offensive tool he has yet to show much of anything other then hesitation, bad O zone passing decisions and an inability or unwillingness to accelerate.
Last night he made 4 bad plays in a row, two in O zone, 2 in the D zone with lead directly to a goal.
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DFW King Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
@Donald_S, Agreed!! For this system we need the right players. While Penner might have the size, his mindset isn’t right for the system. Send him to a hypnotist or pull a Phil Jackson and make him read a book: the little engine that could.
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bonvivant1 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@Donald_S, I think Penner’s lack of production is indicative of several things.
One, we’re not getting consistent scoring from all lines game to game. I don’t think he is a good fit for the line he is playing on.
I think he would be better suited playing with Kopitar and Williams.
I think Murray has a good system. The players have not yet figured out how to balance scoring with defense.
The third man high scheme is not suited to Penner’s game because he does not have the foot speed to disrupt break out passes high in the zone like Richards and Lewis.
I’d like to see Penner crash the net more frequently and put him with someone that can get the puck to the net. I think along the boards and in front of the net he is most effective.
I’m not ready to throw him under the bus.
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King-C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@bonvivant1, Agree! give him a shot in the first line and if he doesn’t produce then bench or trade him. I’ve seen some good things from him this year. I just think he is not a good fit on our second line.
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King Alex Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Penns is not a slot player. He needs to go to the net and bang is rebounds and slick passes. So many fans want to point a finger at 1 player all the time. I have either been at or watched every game this year and we have some problems that dont start with or end with Penner. The lack of effort last night is not what cup contenders are made of. No excuses, period. We win as a team and we lose as a team. Everyone on this team must man up and take responsibility for their play. We have major problems scoring and it has spread to every line. If this scoring slump turns into a drought over the length of this season, TM will be out of a job. We have too much talent on our roster to not be able to score and I hope we have too much pride on our roster to mail in poor efforts anymore. The good news is all of this can be fixed. It’s up to the players and coaching staff. Do you want to be cup contenders or are you content barely making the playoff’s and getting the boot in round 1? This is the question all the Kings players and coaching staff must ask. I have been a fan since 1977 when I was 8 years old and I will continue to be a fan until the day I die but I will not single out 1 player when we have a team problem.
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Kings Fan In Temecula Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
@King Alex, good post
FdoFmFull Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@King Alex, Not only a good post, but right to the heart of the matter.
The majority of fans don’t really watch close enough to notice whether Penner is improving or not, they just jump on the bandwagon and continue to “ride this pony”.
The fact is, Penner was injured early and is just now rounding into game shape. He’s played much better lately and certainly better than his opposite winger, who does not help matters on this line.
It also doesn’t help that the coach actually singled out Penner after this loss as if Penner were one of the worst offenders last night! Let’s not forget that the first line was well on its way out of the offensive zone and only Kopitar was anywehere close, along with Mitchell and Voynov when the turnover occurred and the first goal was scored.
Another tidbit. the way Murray benched the top 2 lines at the end of the game would indicate his displeasure with their play, yet he continued to play Penner on a makeshift 3rd line as if Penner was the only top-6 his was not unhappy with. Yet today, he goes out of his way to “talk to him in private”?
I guess I’m just as confused as the players!
King Alex Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
@Kings Fan In Temecula & @FdoFmFull, Thanks guys! Just calling it like I see it. Nice pick up about the top 2 lines being benched & Penns still playing on a make shift 3rd line. Just as someone else pointed out, Ricky & Brownie are a +1 over Penns on 5 on 5 play. Like I said before, I can accept losing (I am a long time Kings fan) what gets me is the lack of TEAM effort.
jeff Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 8:52 am
@King Alex, right on that and penner is a dead horse on this team and the team stinks really bad has of know it his a 2 way game score then hold down the fort we dint do very well at either we scored allot against a so so blues team that is okay look at teams like Edmonton the young guns that are playing better style than us the dont have all the talent like we do have 2 lines that should score at will they have one lets get it going our hire a coach that will
USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@bonvivant1,
I happen to agree that he is better suited for the Kopitar line, but he never goes into corners.
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He seems so apathetic. Like he’s just “there”. Not sure what he needs, but his career has been on a downward trajectory…
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I’d like to know what Penner said back to TM when he needs more effort out of him. I mean, it wasn’t a secret that TM needed this. Our third line is for checking so he don’t fit there. The fourth line would really be risky too. I don’t see a fit if the old dog doesn’t learn a new trick.
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DesertKing Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
@LA_1968,
“Fro told me that this was okay.”
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Jason Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:22 pm
@DesertKing, Nice! Had to laugh at that one…
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DesertKing Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@Jason,
Sad thing was that I really liked Fro when he was on his game.
From the Sport Psychology perspective, lack of consistency is a symptom to what is really happening with the athlete, it is not a question of skill. I hold out hope still for Penner
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Bonvivant1 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
@Meaghan M. McCarthy, MA, A sports psychologist would recommend training harder and working through it. A priest would recommend 4 hail mary’s and an appointment for next week. A politician would recommend that he blame someone else for his poor play. That said, I would agree. He’ll be fine.
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Meaghan M. McCarthy, MA Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
@Bonvivant1, sport psychology is a whole lot more involved…we provide athletes with tangible skills that can restructure their thought patterns to enhance their performance. Its a collaborative, proactive effort between athlete and consultant. Sometimes, our role is to help the athlete make a decision about whether or not they want to continue playing.
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Penner is a complete waste of space. He’s huge and plays like he’s 5 feet tall. He floats most of the time. The only time he seems to skate is when there’s a glimmer of hope for some offense and even then it’s not a given. Edm and LA = Dumb and Dumber. Sorry Dean, you got punked. Get this guy off the 2nd line and put someone who actually gives a damn. He’s the Jay Cutler of the NHL. Seems completely disinterested and the rest of the team seems to want to win.
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I want consistency from Murray. Thanks
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Right now the list of LWs Terry Murray has ever been able to work with stands at…what, one?
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King-C Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@DLB, lol. You have a good point!
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@DLB,
Smyth – Yes
Poni – No
Frolov – No
Sturm – No
Gagne – .25 Yes
Penner – No
Parse – No
Moulson – No
We’re at 1.25 with Smyth and Gagne.
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408kingsfan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@CB14, Yeah but Fro was good for 20 goals every season
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@408kingsfan, Very true, but look at Fro’s point totals and you’ll see a dropoff.
2 years before TM coached: 71 and 69 points
TM’s two years: 59 and 51 points
CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@Jake, I think the problem is more with scoring forwards, not a checking forward like Clifford.
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DesertKing Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@CB14,
Smyth – yes
Poni – 1 season? With injuries?
Frolov – went to NY, did the same thing, no longer at NY
Sturm – 10 game I think? It toook 2 weeks to get me kids potty trained.
Gagne – looking good so far
Penner – Frolov part deux
Parse – played well, injured , played a few games, maaajoorrr injury
Moulson – isn’t that a low carb beer? How long were they together? I would guess less than a year.
When you look at it, the true professionals (Smyth,Gagne) did well. The players who were injured didn’t get the chance to perform. The ones who have been disappointments have displayed tendencies to not care what anyone says. I don’t think we can put this on TM when you see players like Kopi, JW, Stoll, etc. giving 100% each game and performing well.
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@DesertKing,
Poni – played 3/4 of the season, 61 games to be exact.
See my response to 408KingsFan for Frolov.
Sturm – fair enough.
Gagne – I concur, just pointing out that the season is far from over.
Penner – had his best season the year before joining the Kings with 63 points, and was on pace to score 55 points before coming to the Kings.
Parse – true
Moulson – Had 9 points in 22 games at the end of the season before TM was Head Coach, was only given 7 games next year before being banished to the minors for the rest of the year. Signed with NYI after the season, and scored 30 goals in each of the next 2 seasons. I think TM missed on that one.
Dominick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@DesertKing, Why does everybody dis the Fro? Name me another guy in the last 20 years who scored 53 from the 3rd line?
CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@Dominick, Just for the record, Frolov only scored 51 points from the 3rd line, HUGE difference. LOL
Helvetica Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@DesertKing, I think the key point you’re making is that the hard working guys fit the system. I honestly don’t think Murray is asking for much more than the willingness to play a responsible 2 way game. Keep the feet moving. And in Penner’s case, probably use his size and strength more. You’ve seen it many times with Murray, where he talks about a guy who isn’t producing in terms of “his game” and not necessarily in terms of his points. We heard it with pretty much all of these guys. I think he has the mind set that (and i know ive seen a quote to back this up) hard work pays off. It may not translate directly into individual points, but the team will benefit when guys play hard, responsible, hockey.
The real problem though, is that, how many guys in the league can pot 30+ goals (which i think a lot of us expect) on first line LW AND play a very good 2 way game? Seems like first line guys are generally known for scoring goals. Playing great D is usually a bonus. It almost seems like murray is trying to mold every line on the team into some sort of hybrid 2nd/3rd line where they can play defensive, hard nosed hockey, and still pot some goals.
Dominick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@CB14, Actually I had it wrong. 55pts with the playoffs.
CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@Dominick, Sure glad we got rid of him because he wasn’t producing offensively
Dominick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
@CB14,
Yea, and the best part is, his replacement scored a whopping 16pts in his place.
Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@DesertKing, Even better goes to the Canes and is on the powerplay playing well.
USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
@DesertKing,
Smyth – yes…. but his last season sucked.
Poni – He was a filler and injured.
Frolov – Did even worse in NYC. Always folded in tough hitting games.
Sturm – Coming off of injury, one goal bounced off his back another his shin.
Gagne – Not bad
Penner – Enigma II.
Parse – To many injuries to recover from.
Moulson – Who knows? Would never have the freedom in LA that the NYI gave him.
Dominick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
@USA#17,
Your incorrigible.
consistency? he gets 0 point every game, isn’t it consistent? just kidding… I think he’s just had a bad game last night, he played just fine in the previous two.
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If Penner doesn’t score by Halloween bench him for Parse and see what happens!!!
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@Chucker, “Like”
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Kingm32 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
@Chucker, Send Parse down, bench Penner and bring up Loktionov!!!!!!!!!
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Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Kingm32, Why does everyone want to play him out of postion, He is a center not a left wing he proved that last year.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@Andrew: the second coming, I tend to agree; but when I see Jordan Eberle being converted to a winger, and Gino Malking taking time on the wing I think it is worth a shot. Mainly because we have no room at centre!
I think it’s safe to say that a good start to the season was more crucial to Penner than any other player. One point in six games…the worst possible start for Penner. But I’d still like to defend him by saying it’s still early and he’s getting used to new linemates, system. I thought he was making some progress each game including the last one (I only saw half the game though). I believe I heard he broke his stick on one of his turnovers. But yeah it’s pretty unanimous that he needs to start producing regardless. Or maybe he should restructure his contract to give back some of his 4.25M salary.
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bringbackbutchgoring Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@ToughD, Wow, Roberts and Gagne seem to be able to get used to their new teammates. Penner played here 35 games now. Let’s think of new excuses for the guy. These old ones are wearing pretty thin….
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, We signed Gary Roberts?!?!? I knew he was a machine fitness wise but wow!
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bringbackbutchgoring Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@VanKingsFan, Ugh Sorry Dang I have done that before. How embarrasing!!!!!!
VanKingsFan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring,
All good. I knew what you meant, just wanted to rib ya.
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ToughD Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, First off, Penner has only played 25 games…31 including last year’s playoffs. And he’s only played with his current linemates for 5 since he practically rode the bench after getting injured in the Philly game. His linemates Richards and Brown are not exactly lighting it up at even-strength, either. After a quarter of games last season people were calling for Kopi’s head, and the season before Frolov. I know it’s not much but at least he’s shown more aggressiveness after 6 games than Fro did his entire last season here. I’m all for hammering Penner, but he’s one of our top 6 so a productive penner is vital. Besides what other team is gonna want him…we really have no other choice but to show more patience.
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@ToughD,
I’d rather he keep the money and produce.
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He is like pony worthless
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friarking Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@Alan, Poni wasn’t worthless.
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Puckn-A Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
@friarking, Agreed , however he got 3 million to play Moreau’s role.
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In fairness to Penner, even in the Dallas game people thought he wasn’t giving any effort because he’s just not a fast player. His offensive style reminds me alot of Jason Allison. He lumbers around carrying the defender on his back and uses his big frame to keep the defender at bay. The only reason we haven’t seen alot of that this season is because that line has failed to click offensively. As Rich said, Richards has been a beast on the Power Play, same with Brownie. Penner doesn’t play with them on the Power Play. Penner has one less point at even strength than Richards and Brown do.
On top of all that he’s been injured, and is adjusting to 2 new linemates. Lets give him a little more time before we get rid of him.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
@CB14, Good take.
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@CB14, Also should say the second PP unit hasn’t clicked yet. Surprise Surprise. They’ve scored 1 goal so far, that was by Gagne.
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pesus Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@CB14,
Its hard to defend a guy thats done nothing but I thing your right. Penner had some success with kopi and williams. So why not try him there? We know gagne and richards can play together. I dont think he gave up last night either. yeah he made a few bad passes but who didnt? Brown shot a pass at kopi on a clear cut 2 on 1. I saw him back check a few times and break up some plays. I think TM has to look in the mirror instead of singling out someone every time we go in a scoring drought.
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Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@CB14, Brown and Penner cancel each other out, thats why.
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@Andrew: the second coming, I know.
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Jamesonafterawin Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@CB14, Ha! I read from top to bottom too!
tornado12 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@CB14, I like them apples…I agree he needs more time and I would like to see him play with Kopi. He had his best production as a King playing with Kopi. That 1st line has cooled off so I think now is a good time for change. Apparently though, TM doesnt agree. Which is a whole other topic…i mean comeon 3 goals in 3 games? its not like we ran into 3 allstar goalies..but i digress…
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@tornado12, Agree.
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ToughD Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 2:24 am
@CB14, Jason Allison…point per game power forward who was a FORCE at cycling the puck. That’s who we are missing.
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Well it’s good to know that playing in his contract year hasn’t changed his game with the Kings
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He’s way too slow for a team that doesn’t really have enough speed as it is. Work ethic in my opinion is sub par. His numbers suck so far, don’t bother me as much as his past 2 plus- -12 seasons, which is probably why EDM got rid of him in the first place…I’n my opinion, he’s an over paid 3rd or 4th line player who has done nothing but destroy the chemistry of our 2nd line. Hell, our third line looks better at this point. Lombardi, you have done well with this team. No one is going to hang you for making one mistake. Please cut your losses! Just trade him for a used puck bag, and put a real skater on this line.
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These meetings are getting old. Every year its the same thing, just different player. I dont know why I let myself get so excited this off season. Penner has done nothing but we have scored 3 goals in 3 games against 3 career back ups. Thats not all Penners fault. if not for 2 tap in goals what has Brown done? Stoll? What has Richards done 5 on 5? The offensive game plan sucks, plain and simple. IT TIME DL CALLED TM INTO HIS OFFICE.
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Socalr6 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
@pesus, I agree 1000%
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Package Penner and Parse in a trade and move on, cut your losses and start focusing on winning.
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bringbackbutchgoring Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@408kingsfan, In fairness to Parse, he has 18 points in his last 35 games with the Kings and wasn’t given a real chance this year yet. And actually coming off a serious injury. I’m not down on him like I am Penner
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USHA#17 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
@408kingsfan,
If you were a GM would you trade for Penner?
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Jamesonafterawin Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
@USHA#17, He didn’t say what to expect in return.
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Pens is just not TM kind of a guy. So were Boyle, Moulson, Purcell, Frolov. TM should realize it would be alot easier to adapt talents into the system than forcing them to adjust their play style.
Numbers tell all. Everyone, I mean no exception, came into his system has reduced their numbers in production department.
This seasen however, he has more than enough personnels to raise offensive production but I don’t see the result yet. TM’s days with the Kings might remain short.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@goldielocks, Actually, Penner reminds me of how TM failed to use Boyle. Both big strong guys, who aren’t the fastest, or the most physical, but both have quite a bit of offensive upside. Tried to squeeze Boyle into being a grinding physical guy, and he’s trying to do the same with Penner. I think Penner has actually been doing this to some extent this year, but his offense is now suffering from it. This record seems to be broken..
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FdoFmFull Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@goldielocks, Not to sound like an apologist, but this guy is just now rounding into game shape and is actually playing quite well. I’ve seen Penner make some outstanding outlet passes into the neutral zone and good work in the offensive zone to keep possession. Not to mention times when he makes good plays only for his opposite wing (must remain nameless) to turn over the puck or flub a scoring chance.
Another notable part of Penner’s game that has been better is getting the puck out to the neutral zone when were pinned in. He’s able to use his size effectively to chip the puck out. Let’s not forget the occasional pick pocket that he does in the offensive zone too.
Hate to say it, but Murray’s inability to teach a balanced approach to defense/ offense is keeping not just Penner but the whole team from being even just average scorers. Unfortunately, he has a need to pin the tail to his favorite whipping boy.
Let’s not forget that part of Murray’s inability to inspire includes statements like – (paraphrase) – let’s start Bernier (in the middle of an awesome shutout streak by Quick) against a cross-conference team, to whom losing does not matter as much as losing to a division or conference team! – Translation – this game is not as important as other coming up!
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How bad is it when Westy looks llike he is flying out there and giving all he’s got but Penns looks the same and he did last year? Penns has looked ok in a few games but he needs to put points on the board and earn that 4mil pay check.
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If he really has been “trying”, I don’t want him. If he hasn’t been, I definitely don’t want him.
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I am not throwing him under the bus because I have been saying this since we got him – I just don’t think he is very good. He is a slow guy playing a fast game. I can see where he has good hands, but he can’t move them – or the rest of his body – fast enough to take full advantage of them. He also has very questionable drive and desire. Also, I don’t think he fits well at all with Richards, who is a very quick and instinctive player. I badly want to see him do well, and would give him some more time to prove something, but my instincts tell me that we we see is about all we are going to get.
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rick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@rick, Should have been “what we see…”
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@CB14, I’m ok (somewhat) with an Allison style. What irks me are the lazy one-handed passes that just look like he’s not really trying.
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Let’s sign Scott Barney.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Scot, Noah Clarke
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@Scot, Bordson, Rob Bordson.
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King Alex Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
@CB14, This I love. Maybe Bordson has a brother we can sign too!!!
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
@King Alex, He has a twin brother named Juraj Mikus!
to be fair everyone looked pretty bad last night
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Maybe we can Ziggy Plaffy out of retirement
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Dominick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
@Andrew: the second coming, He isn’t retired I don’t think. Last season he played for HK 36 Skalica (his hometown team) in the Slovak Extraliga and scored 53 points in 36 games.
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Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Dominick, Then lets go get him
haha.
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Penns new nick name s the Mail Man. So far he has put a stamp on his effort and mailed it in.
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Can’t agree with moving Penner to Kopi’s line. Everybody loved this line a week ago. Now we want to change both the first and second lines? Isn’t that what everybody rips TM for? Just sit out Penner, put in Parse for a game or two so only one line changes. Just leave the first line alone. That’s not the problem
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ThaBeeeeev Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, I agree. I do not think it would be wise to move Penner up to the first line solely based on last night’s game. Everyone was off last night. It was a bad game. I would reserve changing up that first line until after at least Saturday’s game.
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FdoFmFull Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, Don’t change it if it ain’t broke! What a concept!
Another option is to change out the 2nd line RW to someone that might fit the LW and the Centerman! Oh wait, that could be admitting that there’s more to this puzzle than just our favorite Whippin’ Boy!
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Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
@FdoFmFull, 3 goals in three games seems pretty broke.
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I rememebr the day of the trade, there was a woman in my office who is a big ducks fan. She immediately came over to my office and said “Good luck with Penner, he’s a lazy player. He will only look good if he is on a line with 2 exceptional players”
No joke. I try and get past that, and yet she was so right it’s unbelievable.
I think he needs a little bit more time. I’ll give it to the end of Nov to make my final decision. We are winning right now. We are doing well right now. Let’s not forget that.
Yes improvements on the offense need to happen, but I am ok with winning every game by 1 goal. I don’t care if it’s the lowest GF year for us. As long as we get the 2 points, we are golden…..
GKG
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
@Lake Forest, Then how do you explain the fact that in Penner’s best season he scored 63 points, and the next highest point scorer was 22 points below him?
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Lake Forest Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
@CB14, black magic
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Andrew: the second coming Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@Lake Forest, lmao.
Make a former Oiler 3rd line
Penner-Stoll-Moreau
Move Richie to Richards line,
Done.
Go Kings.
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Dominick Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
@KIMO, I actually wanted that before the season even started. An ex-Philly line also.
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kevin from toronto Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@KIMO, Daddy like!
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I think Parse would be worth a shot on a line with Richards+Brown.
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FdoFmFull Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
@Cup B4 I Die, Hey, most of the slick passing in the offensive zone from that line has come lately from Richards and Penner while the other member of that line either gives the puck to the opponents or goes back to “hands of stone” in front of the goalie!
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Not even gonna say it…
Go Kings!
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CB14 Reply:
October 26th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
@kevin from toronto, You like him that much huh? Hehe
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A Penner post is money for Kings blog moderators. Guaranteed three figure responses.
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Trade…
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Im sorry but Richards and Brown together are just not working
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Hat trick Reply:
October 27th, 2011 at 12:56 am
@jason, And it will take TM till the very end of the season to figure that one out.
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When does DL have a meeting with TM and asked for a better coaching job with the offense????
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way to state the obvious, coach.
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Gagne – Kopitar – Williams
Richardson – Richards – Brown
Penner – Stoll – Moreau
Clifford – Lewis – Westgarth
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When our franchise player was hit by some AHL mini-goon a few games ago, it was Penner who went after the little goon. I did not see a lot of other Kings rushing to avenge the hit on Doughty. Also on behalf of Penner, he is a Plus One for the season while his more-heralded linemates are both in the Minus column. This is not to say Penner is in the best possible spot. Rational people could argue that Penner should be moved to a fourth line and that JMFJ should be the second line left winger (two of JMFJ’s gamewinners were scored from the left wing). Nonetheless, guys like Penner who protect their teammates are worth keeping around.
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The Pen is mighthier than the sword of followers who hate. He will be back. He will be valuable. I was disappointed with the D in front of the net after the previous games whee he cleaned house. He does not seem confortalbe on the attack yet, but he is looking better. Have no fear, the pen is coming.
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That’s what we deserve for getting all excited about a former Duck anyways……….
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Maybe he should be sent to the Monarchs for a while for conditioning and to bring his confidence up. I dont know if that is an option…but if you send him down there and he still cant produce…enough said.
Bring in Loki!
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Penner has consistency…being non productive in points, big body that does not hit or create openings for his line mates. If were in his skates-shoes, I would be worried in my status in hockey at the NHL level. If he is not putting up the points, then for cryin out loud use your body to make your presence felt out on the ice. Seriously. What ever happened to the ‘ol saying, do what ya can to win?
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