After today’s morning skate, Terry Murray was asked about the decision to start Jonathan Bernier and whether, in part, he liked the fact that his backup goalie would be tested early in the season. Murray never quite got around to answering that part of the question, but he did offer a spirited defense of his decision to start Bernier over Jonathan Quick, whose streak of three shutouts will be put on hold tonight as he watches Bernier start.
MURRAY: “He’s got to play. Quick can’t play 82 games. We’ve got 17 games here in front of us until the end of the month (of November). Fifteen are conference games. So what do you do? Am I going to wait until December, when we have five Eastern Conference games, and get him in then? He’s got to play. He’s a good goalie and he played great for us in the second half of the year last year. We’ve got a lot of big games right in front of us now, so it’s time to start putting him into some games. The decision was made Saturday morning. It’s not like it was after Quick’s third shutout. It was before, to give him a heads up. It was fair to give him an opportunity to think about it over the weekend, the day off on Sunday, and come in to work hard yesterday in practice. There’s no second-guessing this one for me. It’s just time for him to get playing again.”
Question: Independent of all that, just looking at Bernier, it seemed like he had a strong camp, and then I don’t know what you thought of his first game…
MURRAY: “Really a good camp. Again, going back through the second half of the year, after the All-Star break, his game was tremendous, and right through the training camp. He gets into the first game and I just felt that he wasn’t challenging, wasn’t as aggressive in his game as what he showed in the training camp. Things happened as a result of that. Billy (Ranford) spent quite a bit of time with him, a lot of work, a lot of drills, and he’s been pushing it in practice, working very hard in practice. We need to bring that to the game here tonight.”
Later, Murray was asked whether he felt he would have been messing with Bernier’s confidence is he changed his goalie plans after Quick’s third shutout…
MURRAY: “(Bernier) knows what happened in the first game against Buffalo, where things were not where he wanted them to be, and he paid a lot of attention to it over the past couple weeks here, to get it back in order. He’s ready to go. I would be nervous if I went back to him (and told him he wasn’t starting tonight). Yes, absolutely. It wouldn’t be the right thing to do. The other thing, as I mentioned earlier, is we’ve got 15 of 17 games against conference teams. So then we would have to wait until we get into December. If I don’t show confidence in him now, when does he play?”
Although I am ok to see Bernier playing tonight, why can’t he let Quick to play tonight and let Bernier to play next game? No one ask him not to play Bernier.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@zdfun,
Because the next game is against Dallas, a division opponent on the road. If Quick is your number one keeper, you want him in goal against those teams and your backup against non-conference home games.
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Black Knight Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@vplaza, I dont understand why posters/TM downplay non conference games. Are they now worth less than 2 points for a win? Why not give Kopi, Richards, Gagne and whoever else those less inportant non conference games off too. Maybe we can have a conference lineup and a B squad lineup for non conference! TM’s logic?
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@Black Knight,
Because in a non-conference game, if you lose, you’re not giving someone in the conference points that separate them from you. In a conference game, if you lose, you’re not getting points that could move you up, but you’re also giving someone else points that make them move up in the standings.
And you’re not serious about the “give Kopi, Richards, etc. non-conference games off” question, were you?
OneTimer Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@Black Knight, as vplaza explained…
It’s like losing a $20 gift card that someone gave you for your birthday, versus losing a $20 gift card that you BOUGHT. You’re still not able to gain the $20 value (i.e.: the 2 points), but losing the “gift” gift card doesn’t set you as far back in your bank account (points total) if the name of the game is to retire (playoffs) with the most money on your street (conference standings.)
Sebastian Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@zdfun, a win tonight against an Eastern conference team is not as important as a win Thursday and Saturday against division rivals.
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Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@zdfun, From what I read, he would prefer to start Quick in conference games. To me, this is great news for Quick because he wants his #1 guy in the games that matter most. Of course all games matter, but a loss to an Eastern conference team doesn’t hurt us in the standings as much as a loss to a Western team.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@Jgomez,
Exactly. Now, is that a slight to Bernier, implying that he’s only good for “less meaningful” games? Of course not. These two guys know their roles on this team.
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Harrison Merkin Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@zdfun, I know I’m going to get hammered for this a bit but…..Quicks next game is a consecutive start. Whether that game were to be tonight or ten games from now. period. I am 100%positive that the only person who doesn’t have an issue with JB getting the start is…….JQ himself.
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red49er Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@Harrison Merkin, you can’t know what you profess to know, you just don’t know enough to know it.
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Shakes Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@red49er,
whoa, that sounds like it would be either a Depeche Mode or a Morrissey lyric
The Third Vopat Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@Shakes, Thanks for a good idea. I’ll put on some Smiths and pre 90′s DM. Good Call. And I just aged myself.
Harrison Merkin Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@red49er, I [think] its possible that I’ll get hammered for this a bit but…..Quicks next game is a consecutive start therefore the potential still exists. Whether that game were to be tonight or ten games from now. period. I would like to [think] that the only person who doesn’t have an issue with JB getting the start is…….JQ himself.
Better?
jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@zdfun, as a former goalie, no matter what people say this effects Quick mentally. In the world of good coaching and teams that win unless theres a back to back night of games, if your playing well, you play again.. when you suck, you dont play again.. this is how we are bread to think and play, so when you get sit after playing well and getting star of the week around the nhl, there is a psychological factor.
i really hope quick does well against dallas but i wouldnt be surprised if kings lose tonight and lose against dallas.. As far as quicks first games, i feel if bernier started those 5, we could easily have lost all of them..
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Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@jason, This makes sense for Amateur players but I am not sure about the pros. I mean do we want our #1 goalie to make a fuss when he doesn’t play for 1 game at the start of the season?
Also, if he played a bad game and Bernier starts the next one, does Quick now have to think about how much he sucks? By all of JQ’s interviews, I doubt he sits at home and worries about how bad he was.
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red49er Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
@Jgomez, i agree with Jason. Quick is only 23 y/o (ish). Because he gets paid to play doesn’t make him an emotional zombie. Heck pro sports is rife with head cases. extreme head cases. Quick should start tonight. Another point: what about the rest of the team….don’t they deserve the best chance to win every night? right now that’s Quick.
EmptyTank Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@jason and @red49er, Do you really think Quick, who is sitting on top of the world right now coming off his shutouts and his NHL #1-Star of the week, is going to somehow think “Maybe I’m not that good” or “What did I do wrong?” ??? NO WAY, man. This move will not have a negative mental effect on Quick. It is just simply the perfect time for Murray to give him a night off and I’m pretty sure Quick will see it that way.
In fact I think @Jgomez touches on it in a different way. If you wait until he has an “off” game to sit him then THAT is when the mental effects could start to snowball on a goalie, sitting there thinking how they played badly and it cost them a start, etc., etc. Pretty soon it could become a house of cards and everything starts to crumble. BUT I will add that I think Quick showed us some of his best games last year immediately after he turned in sub-par performances, so I think Quick is cut from a different cloth.
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Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@re49er, Get on twitter and follow Quick. Hes actually 25yrs old but this guy is COMMITTED! His summer workouts consisted of 2000 yards of lunges during the week. This isn’t some young boy who is going to cry to mommy because he didn’t play one game. When hes out there, hes going to go for the win no matter what, streak or no streak.
On a side note, its nice to see that as kings fans we can actually criticize about these small points when in the big picture we are doing so well.
GO KINGS GO!
Blake Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
@jason, As a goalie playing junior hockey I know that if the coach told me this before the game I got a third shut out in a row I wouldn’t be expecting him to change his mind. The shut out is deserved by the team too not just the goalie.
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OneTimer Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@Blake,
Excellent addition to the conversation Blake … and you’re 100% correct. Good on ya’, son.
Ted Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@jason, Murray keeping his word means much more to the whole team than anything else. JQ will have plenty of time to show his stuff. Was he told of Bernier’s start on Saturday as well, that’s my only question?
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
@Ted, maybe the question is, why the heck play bernier instead of quick tonight?
Harty Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@zdfun, Terry don’t be a dope, let Quick play, are you serious……….
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I don’t get that last part. If you have confidence in him, why do you have a problem starting him against conference opponents? Either you have confidence or you don’t
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bmova Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, Your comment is bang on.
“He’s got to play. He’s a good goalie and he played great for us in the second half of the year last year. We’ve got a lot of big games right in front of us now, so it’s time to start putting him into some games.”
If TM really believes this, he shouldn’t have a problem playing JB against a conference opponent.
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Bill M. Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@bmova, If you don’t think he is on his game right now (given a mediocre showing against Buffalo) then how do you test to see if he’s corrected course? You definitely don’t do that against the stars or coyotes.
I don’t think TM is saying he HAS confidence, I think he’s saying that he sees this as an opportunity to try and ESTABLISH some confidence.
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EmptyTank Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@bmova, @bringbackbutchgoring, et. al – You have it all wrong. Regarding who plays in the conference games, it is not about “confidence” in one or the other, it is about playing your BEST option, which without argument is Quick. So Quick MUST play the conference games in the near future. Murray wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t put his best options in play when he’s supposed to.
That said, he also needs to give Bernier some starts if for no other reason than to see where he’s at with his game right now.
This is absolutely the right move. Making the decision and sticking to it shows foresight and a steadfast resolve to do what’s right for the team in the long run.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, OMG!!! Thank you… Thank you… Thank you… couldnt agree more.
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FiG17 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring,
I was thinking the same exact thing. It’s very contradictory.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring,
IMHO, it’s because Quick is our #1 goaltender and you want your #1 against the division opponents to give yourself the best chance to win those games. Is it a knock against Bernier? No, because Bernier knows he’s not the #1 guy.
I think folks are reading too much between the lines.
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Harrison Merkin Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:21 pm
@vplaza, agreed!!!! Let it go people.
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TheAcaciaStrain Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
@vplaza, that would be funny if Bernier is sitting right now on his couch with a tshirt that says “#1 goalie” and a huge smile on his face.
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Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, His reasoning is that the decision was made before the last game. When is Quick suppose to come out? After a loss? Shutout streak is broken? It sounds like some of us don’t have faith in Quick in that he can sit out a game and still come out and play the way hes played. Come on guys! The streak doesn’t disappear because he doesn’t play
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Ashykon Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@Jgomez, Best comment
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red49er Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
@Jgomez, no but momentum can, and if it does, so does the streak and that’s bad for everyone.
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Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
@red49er, The streak ending isn’t a bad thing. He is bound to get scored on at some point. A momentum-less kings is that one year under Andy Murray where we lost like the last 11 games of the season to miss the playoffs. Now that is BAD. This isn’t so bad
Cynic Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, Bingo!
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JB Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, Man there must be some lawyery politicians on this blog trying to read so much into the statement. As others pointed out the decision was made before last game so if they have confidence in JB why would they go back on that call? Again as others said JQ’s streak remains when he goes in and remember the priority is to get a win not a shutout. So if TM believed on Saturday that JB could get them that win what would have changed since that time? Switching to Quick would have just said to JB the win isn’t the only thing that is important it’s also about recognizing individuals. Not the messgae we want sent. It’s about the win. JQ gets it.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, basically murray is saying “its ok to lose tonight but we better win against dallas”
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Space Shot Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@jason,
No, what Murray is saying is “After sitting the last 5 games I want to give Bernier the best chance to win.” At home vs. NJ is a better spot than on the road in Dallas when you want to get your backup some ice time. I wanted to see Bernier start against NJ anyhow, if only because Quick looked gassed in the 3rd and looked like he needed a game off to stay mentally sharp. The mental exhaustion he’s gone through over the past 3 games has earned him a night off.
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Helvetica Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@bringbackbutchgoring, There’s a difference between having confidence in your back up, and playing him in the more important games. Teams have a starting goalie for a reason. They feel he is the better player and they want to count on him to win the important games. With that said, no goalie is going to play the entire season without rest. So, you play your back up in the games that have the least impact on your standings. It’s not a confidence issue. It’s a strategic one. You play the numbers.
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TM is completely logical in his decision making on this one. Nobody on the team cares about the shutout streak, even Quick. It’s about winning games.
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zdfun Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@DanD, Quick can’t commant anything against his coach. He had to say that in front of media/reports, he can’t tell them, “Actually I care, but coach doesn’t care, so i have to say ‘agree’.”
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DanD Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
@zdfun, Quick is the most humble, laid back guy, according to his teammates. He cares about winning games for the team, not for his personal stats.
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@DanD,
“Nobody on the team cares about the shutout streak”
Uh, did you see the team congratulate him after the game on Saturday? Not only do they care, they are absolutely stoked about it.
[Reply]
Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@wavesinair, And because he sits out a game, they won’t play well for him on Thursday?
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
@Jgomez, ???
Jgomez Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@Jgomez, I’m saying that ‘stoked’-ness should be there against Dallas.
jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@DanD, its all mental.. no matter what people say… if you play well and then get benched as a human being this messes with you. professional or not.. after berniers lackluster performance i’m surprised hes even playing again this soon..
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bcjays Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@DanD, Don’t you think trying to maintain the shut out streak is good for the team. Last time I checked, a shut out usually means a win. Murray is crazy to do this.
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DanD Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
@bcjays, Uh yeah, obviously a shutout means a win, but you say that as if he’s just going to continue the streak and not give up a goal the rest of the year, which isn’t going to happen.
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Open the floodgates!
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of course he stands by it…what else is he supposed to do at this point?
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Gotta love a coach who sticks by his decisions. I like this call give the kid a chance to play and Quick will take the bulk of the division teams
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@Alex,
“Gotta love a coach who sticks by his decisions.”
Which one? The decision to play the hot hand or the decision to play Bernier? LOL.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
@wavesinair,
Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t?
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Cynic Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@wavesinair, The one who paid for the lunch with himself. LOL!
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@wavesinair, Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
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Two goalies with shutout streaks sounds like a good way to keep that whole goalie controversy going. Bernier can start his streak tonight!
Go Kings! Go Bernier!
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Lets put this behind us, support TM and the Team.
All we can ask is Victories, Let TM handle the rest. Don’t go in to areas where we might not be so qualified. So far team and management where giving us wins, lets keep it that way, that’s all matters to me.
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If only TM had a fraction of this confidence in EE; JQ would not have been so burnt out a few years back.
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I wasn’t thrilled when I first got the news, but I respect his decision and that he has the integrity to stick to what he told JB would happen. Bernier is a great goalie and when he is on we can beat anyone.
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ChiTownKingsFan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
@vtecjunkie, I love JB, but he’s inevitably going to get traded within a year or two. Especially with the massive cap hit we took from doughty. Quick is the undisputed #1, he gives the team a chance to win every night. i’ve never seen a game where the loss was largely quick’s fault. Sure, i’ve seen him give up a few questionable goals, but never to the point where I lose faith in his ability. It’ll be fun to see how long we can get a SJ/Mon (Nabakov – Bryzgalov; Price – Halak) tandam to last, but we know how that always ends up.
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Doughty2Simmonds Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@ChiTownKingsFan, Bryz was never on the Sharks. Kipprisoff, Toskala and Nabakov were tho!
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I agree with you completely. If he has so much confidence in Bernier, why does he seem so hesitant to start him against West teams? I know Quickie’s the #1 right now, but Bernier can get the job done too, he’s a great goalie in his own right. Go get us a win tonight Bernie, I believe in you.
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ziggyfan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
@Zamboni, I totally agree with you. Go JB!!!
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I am going to enjoy watching this game and I hope Bernier stands on his head. That will give the staff and team the confidence to call on him in any situation. Let’s send the Devils home with broken horns.
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Let the kid play!!! Why else is he here?? The team is confident in him hes a good goalie. I dont understand what the big deal is about. Nothing carries over for a goalie if you ask me its game in game out. Quick well be focused when he plays the next game.
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fine…are we done with this yet, tm…?
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This should be about winning games. And with how tight this division and conference will be, it makes no sense to me why TM wants to tinker with momentum. When Quick loses a game is when you give him a break to rest.
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Typical double standard response by TM. I get why he wants to play Bernier. But if you have confidence in him, let him play against the conference teams. Quick is hot. He should be playing tonight.
The kings have 2 very capable goaltenders right now. Quick is hot. You ride the hot goalie….(it’s not about shutouts).
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Winger23 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@Winger23,
Either way, you bet your ass I’m pulling for Bernier tonight. Though spot for the kid to be put in. Just want the 2 points!
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maybe we can actually watch the game tonight and see what happens…
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@variable,
What I love about this is he contradicted himself AGAIN! Poor TM, he can’t win when he argues with himself. I think Cynic is writing his copy!
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Cynic Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
@wavesinair, Even I can’t write that much material that quickly Waves…
I send him cliff notes and he does the rest. Don’t tell anyone.
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I think if Bernier is/or going to be a #1 goalie he needs the confidence of his coach to play conference/division rivals and TM basicly just told us and Bernie that he doesnt. It seems very clear to me that TM has a specific plan in mind about how he is going to play these two this year regardless of what he says.
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No one is saying start Quick all 82. Just let him ride the shutout streak, then play Bernier. I don’t think even if Quick got a shut out, anyone would complain about Bernier playing a game in a back to back situation, but playing Benier now is not going to change his effectiveness if he plays now, or Saturday. Quick will not get overused if he starts 6 or 7 games in a row either.
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
@Dominick,
Yes, yes, yes…and yes. Did I mention yes? Yes.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
@Dominick,
So, just playing devil’s advocate, you’re okay playing Quick against Dallas on the road for his 7th straight game? If yes, then you obviously believe the consecutive starts don’t affect him.
If no, then you’re comfortable that we’re giving Bernier, who has not had a start since Oct 8, a start against the hottest team in the division? Your backup has a better chance against a weaker opponent in Phoenix.
As I’ve said, I’m not necessarily 100% on board with TM on this, but playing Quick for the sake of Quick keeping a shutout streak going isn’t exactly putting the team first.
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Dominick Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
@vplaza, Quick has started 3 times that in a row regularly. After that game (if the shutout streak continued) we would still have 73 games to find Quick some rest, and Bernier some playing time.
I understand TM’s call, but at the same time, Quick changed everything by getting the shutout. I feel TM should change his mind. Bernier would be smart enough to understand, and I don’t think he’s so fragile that he’ll crumble if Murray lets the streak ride till the end.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@Dominick,
Fair enough. So, how many games do you think Bernier should get into to make sure he is in game shape to be effective down the stretch?
In other words, the obvious starts that he should/could be making should be skipped for the sake of keeping Quick’s streak going? Is it okay for JB to have two starts in October to make sure he’s seen enough action?
Two more things. The flip side of that is I don’t think Quick is going to crumble by not starting tonight. And I also think that there’s a point of diminishing returns with consecutive starts. We saw a couple of years ago what the consecutive starts did to Quick and I’d hate to repeat that.
Again, just playing devil’s advocate. This “startergate” really has no really compelling arguments for each side. It’s what someone personally feels needs to be done versus what should be done.
Dominick Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@vplaza, Really,
1. The difference in October between 2 starts, and 4 starts is moot.
2. No one is saying Quick would crumble, or that his confidence would be shaken if he doesn’t play.
3. Again, how much diminishing return are we talking by letting your goalie start 6 games in a row?
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
@Dominick,
1. Perhaps, but I think that the more games Bernier gets in, the better he will be. Preventing him from starting when it makes sense on the schedule prevents him from seeing action and staying in game “shape” (whatever that means).
2. Yep, neither keeper is going to crumble if they don’t start tonight.
3. I think that starting him too many times this early in the season might result in some fatigue or other ailments later in the year. I realize that “playing 82 games” is being too dramatic, but these games do add up and if he doesn’t need to play that many consecutive games, why force it?
Finally, I’m comfortable having a fully rested Quick in net on the road against Dallas this Thursday. It would be nice to give him the chance to continue his streak tonight, but I also like the idea of getting Bernier ice time.
bcjays Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
@Dominick, Exactly. He can rest when the streak is over!!
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I think it’s alright. No need to burn Quick out.
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Why am I not able to post anything did I do something wrong.
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Rich Hammond Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
Rules are posted to right. Multiple user names are not allowed. This is at least the third or fourth time this has been explained to you over the past two years. Using a different email address doesn’t change the rule, nor does the fact that you got away with it for a month.
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KingsFan1384 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@Rich Hammond, I lost the old email address so I had to create a new one. This is the name I would l like to use going forward if this is ok. It will not change again. If this wont work then I will just be a reader and I apologize for any problems I have caused.
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Belexes Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@KingsFan1384,
Yellow jersey for @KingsFan1384
wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@Blexes, 2 points for best cross-post reference of the day!
“Quick can’t play 82 games.”
Hyperbole. I don’t think anyone would object to Bernier playing in back-to-back situations, or in a situation where there were a lot of games tied together. This early in the season, only a couple games before a back-to-back, this type of rhetoric is silly.
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
I totally agree. It’s a silly argument I wouldn’t expect from a professional coach. There isn’t a single person anywhere that would argue Quick should play all 82 games. His defense might have been ‘spirited’ but that doesn’t mean it made sense.
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“I would be nervous if I went back to him (and told him he wasn’t starting tonight). Yes, absolutely. It wouldn’t be the right thing to do.”
And telling your #1 he’s riding the pine after 3 straight shutouts IS the right thing to do?
Terry, Bernier is NOT our #1. If you were to tell him you’re riding Quick like a rented mule until he gasses out, I’m SURE he’d accept it, simply because if HE was as hot as Quick, HE’D WANT THE SAME RESPECT!!!! What kind of motivator is it for Bernier to have 3 straight shutouts like Quick if he’s just gonna get pulled just because the coach would be nervous? Wait, YOU’RE the head coach! Why should YOU be nervous?!?!
Now I’m positive TM is overthinking. If Bernier is any kind of professional (and I’m sure he is), I’m sure he’d understand the circumstances if Quick started. WOW is this frustrating!
Oh, and he plays one of the games on the back-to-back. Like it has been said before, if you have confidence in Bernie, it will not matter which team he plays against. (Basically kind of telling at this point)
What’s funny is that if Ersberg was still here instead of Bernie, NONE of this would be an issue.
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wavesinair Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
@Cynic,
One of the things here is the context. It’s really hard to tell how he said, “I would be nervous” from text. That’s why I always give the benefit of the doubt until I hear the audio. The two mediums come across very differently quite often.
The thing where context doesn’t matter is his logic about showing confidence in him while implying he’d rather not start him against conference teams. Not smart.
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Michael J. Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@Cynic,
I thought that he told Quick that he would not be starting prior to his 3rd consecutive shut out…
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It occurs to me that anticipating a shutout is meaningless if the Kings don’t score. Sssooooo -
I want to talk offense. Who scores the winning goal? Does Richards add another magnificant assist? How many points can Kopitar rack up tonight? Does Penner get the monkey off his back? Whose turn on the third line is it to impress against a tough team? Surely there will be other Kings on the ice who aren’t named Bernier or Quick….
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
@Zeley, You wanna talk about the Kings offense? We don’t do that around here.
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“It’s not like it was after Quick’s third shutout.”
No, it was after his second straight shutout. Huge difference there.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, haha was thinking the same thing. I think TM is a really smart dude who just HATES and gets uncomfortable talking to the repetitive nature of the media’s questions.
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Quick seems relaxed. By his Twitter, he’s having fun with Drew. That’s what we need right now. If Quick starts today, everyone in the team would be tensed. This is an easing time for Quick and the whole team.
It’s OK if the streak continues I guess, but I really don’t care. What if JJ turns the puck over and it goes in? Are you going to blame him for ending the streak and throw him under the bus again? That kind of stuff happens every now and then and it could be anyone in the team.
We can only hope Quick will once again show his best game and the streak continues but we cannot assume that. So let’s just forget about his streak and think what’s the best for the team.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@goldielocks,
You know what? I’m good with either decision, but I think Murray’s defensiveness is silly. He’s defending his waffling.
All he has to say is: “I change my mind sometimes, and Sunday, I changed my mind.” I want to see how Berns responds in a game situation to all his work with Billy, and I want to see it now, against an out-of-conference team, not later, in a back-to-back against an in-conference team. It sounds like that’s his REAL logic, and if he can’t come out and say it, he should at least just say “I changed my mind. Seemed like a good idea at the time, and I’ve committed to it.” The defensiveness is just goofy.
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goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
On his part, maybe TM regrets his words.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@goldielocks, you make a good point but i still think he shouldnt be sitting.. kovalchuk will have his way with bernier
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on no he didnt!
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Wow… testie…. Sounds like coach needs a chill pill… Whatever. The man is correct. Bernier needs to get some minutes. I see no harm in the move. There is no right answer. It’s all about the team, eh?
GO KINGS GO!
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@mash-ola, No kidding. Let’s hope Berns doesn’t get booed tonight. Murray will start throwing things.
(j/k, of course)
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@mash-ola, why does bernier need to get minutes? not like hes going to win a game for us or play in the playoffs
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I’m much more interested in who covers Kovalchuk this time around with last change and all that jazz.
Devils have been icing Kovalchuk 28-30 minutes a game and if we stick JMFJ on him like we did with J Benn, he might get some long shifts.
If that happens, guess we have Slava stuck on Parise all night long.
Likely a bunch of overlap there but should be a fun bench battle for the coaches.
Methinks tonight might be the first game where we actually miss Dewey.
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KingsFan1384 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Token, I think any of the D combos can handle the task. I hope your wrong about the miss DD part.
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Belexes Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
@Token,
I kinda think we’ve missed him the last two games where we’ve scored a total of 3 goals…
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
@Belexes, The only game the Kings have scored more than 2 goals in regulation, was the game vs. St. Louis, and DD didn’t play that game.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
@Token, JMFJ plays well when the pressure is on.. when doughtys gone he is a different player.. i think he just gets too lax and makes stupid plays at times
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@Token, Willie Mitchell… ALL DAY BABY!
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It’s been said a number of times this season and last, but what a GREAT problem to have and one which the Kings have not had in a very long time … “Which goalie to start”… Let’s go Kings… and come on Bernier, let’s make it 4 shutouts in a row
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as long as Murray coaches this team, we will not win a cup
I was kinda hoping with all the talent they had, they would go 0-16, change coaches then own the rest of the season
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Token Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
@jason, Move to Columbus and realize your dream.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@Token, we have way more talent but we still wont perform like it with this coaching staff.. we have so many 20+ goal scores yet, most arent scoring..
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@jason, I call TROLL!!!
It is called playing within a system, and performing VERY well within that system. But I assume you already know this and are just hoping for a reaction… damn.. i gave in and commented…
Michael J. Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
@jason,
“We”??? Are you on the team? Or, are you their representative?
Don’t assume the Kings will not perform poorly because of the coaching staff. They are playing well, outscoring opponents 8-0 over the last three games.
And you said “yet most aren’t scoring…” Who are the “most” that you speak of?
Michael J. Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
@Michael J.,
errr… should read “will perform poorly”
My brain is performing poorly…
PP Anybody? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
@jason, Most people here seem to be happy with the fact that the Kings can’t score more than 2 goals a game in regulation, as long as Quick keeps posting shutouts so I guess we’ll just have to see how long that can keep up.
Osaka Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@jason, Way to put yourself in front of the team. A true fan.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
@Osaka, so the system is to rely on Quick to make rediculously hard saves and get shutouts every game.. because really otherwise we wouldnt be winning.. people will see tonight as quicks saves wont be there
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I bet Voynov / Mitchel are drooling at the opportunity to shut down Kovalchoke. Parise worries me, though…if he is considering moving on after the season, he knows LA will be his best chance to win the cup and will want to put on a show.
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Bottom line… Bernier is a solid goalie with oodles of potential and we will be fine with him in net.
There is even a chance that Quick appreciates the break. For the first time (maybe ever) he is receiving national attention. All eyes would be on him tonight to see when he would crack and let in a goal. This way he gets a chance to breath and focus on extending his streak on Thursday.
If we can believe anything Quick says he is the most team first player I have ever hear speak. He doesn’t care about his personal records; or what this means for his streak. IF we lose… IF.. then there might be some doubts. But I want to give Bernie the benfit of the doubt and say that he will have a great game tonight
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KingsFan1384 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@VanKingsFan, I think JB is going to be fine. I would have liked to see Quick not cause i dont think JB can do it but for selfish reason’s. wanting to see another shut out or at least the chance of one. But I think JB is more than capable of winning.
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I have no problem with resting Quick, but does anyone else fell that this is not about Quick but showcasing Bernier to NJ. Eveyone here would love to add Parise.
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red49er Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
@Pesus, the thought has some merit, but not enough to be the reason we’re going with Bernier. It’s not like the Devils don’t have a scouting staff.
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Akat16 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
@Pesus,
I was just thinking about that last night I think it may have something to do with it.
if voynov and bernier have good games we could try to bundle them with a conditional pick for parise. The condition being that he would have to sign with us and then we would give them the pick. i think with the current situation in NJ that could be very appealing to them, getting youth to take over for MB when he retires and adding to a stuggling defense.
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This should not be about who is playing in goal, this should be about getting 2 points regardless of the guy between the pipes.
Conference points carry more importance when it comes down to a tie breaker. The team with the same amount of points in their conference can potentially determine who gets the higher seed. Also shootout victories can also determine who is seeded higher in a division/conference for the playoffs.
Again 2 points is 2 points.
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bcjays Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@Neil Shafton, But who is most likely to get you two points. The goalie playing out of his mind with three straight shutouts or a goalie who has not played for over a week? Seems like an easy choice to me. Anyone involved in sports knows you dont miss a streak. Would you rest your first baseman when he has home runs in 5 straight games? No way.
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Neil Shafton Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@bcjays,You are not understanding what I was saying. I didn’t say Bernier over Quick or vice versa. These points are critical, especially when you look at last year and how those 2 losing streaks cost the Kings 4th in the conference. Yes no Kopitar, yes no Williams, but if they had won more games in the beginning of last season, they might have not had to press urgently to just make the playoffs.
This will either make TM look great or it might make him look like once again making the wrong decision.
TM contradicts himself all of the time, just like his constant changes in the offensive line combonations. “Each game I initially have the goalie penciled in”. “If Quick or Bernier is playing great, then I am going to play that goalie”
I wish the GM would suggest to play Quick, especially since the guy has 3 shutouts in a row. The shutouts are great, but you have to go with the goalie that is going to give you the best chance of winning.
I love Bernier, but right now is not to the time to start him. Yes I understand Bernier needs to play 20 games or more this season so Quick is fresh for the playoffs, but your goalie has not allowed a goal in 3 games, so why do you need to change this?
Hopefully this will explain why I just said this is about 2 points, not who is playing in net. Personally I would stick with Quick, but I am not TM, and honestly I wouldn’t want to be him.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
@bcjays, brilliant.. hence why murray will never win a cup..
Its like playing Drew Brees backup next game after he throws 5 touchdowns the week before
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Does anyone know if Boucher’s 5 shutouts in a row came in consecutive games?
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I see the logic with TM’s decision, but you can tell even he isn’t buying his own BS.
STOP over thinking and go with your gut, cause your head will only get in the way!
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WHAT THE Frank St. Marseille! I thought TM was going to go with the HOT goalie. I guess Quick is not hot enough? Very confusing. If we get shelled, TM owns this. Love Bernier, but Quick should play at least until he gives up a goal. Pull DiMaggio in game 55? Sometimes I really hate Murray. LOVE BARRY MELROSE and Ol’ Pully There Ya Know. Hope Bernier can rise to the ocassion. I guess these are the good old days of the furture so learn to go with the flow.
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It’s Bernier’s turn in the lineup. This is in no way a slight on Quick or his game. Quick has been amazing, and I imagine he will continue to be so in his next start.
Riding the hot-hand doesn’t mean you ride it until it drops. You manage it in a way to sustain it. Shutouts are nice and all, but I’d rather have the team focused on winning with whoever is in net.
And in all honesty, I don’t see why sitting Quick against NJ is going to hurt his chances at keeping the streak going. This is not an NBA player on a hot shooting streak and we need to throw him out there for a “heat check”. It’s not like he is in some sort of rhythm that can’t be sustained by giving him some rest. The dude practices daily and has his routines. He isn’t sitting around watching geese in the park.
Quick knew he was sitting before the Dallas game. He threw down and posted an egg knowing he was sitting the next one. I doubt it was a challenge to the coach saying “you better keep playing me”. If anything, it looks more like a challenge to Bernier saying, “your turn”.
Go Kings (all of them)
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bcjays Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@pk, Really?? “Shutouts are nice and all, but I’d rather have the team focused on winning with whoever is in net.” I have heard this before. But listen, if your goalie is pitching shut outs your team almost always wins!!
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just to change this up a little
What if Bernier pitches a 35 save shutout tonight..Should TM then bench JQ and ride the hot goalie?
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KingsFan1384 Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@nykingfan, I would then have to play 1 and 1 so on.
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nykingfan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@KingsFan1384,
LOL
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bcjays Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@nykingfan, what if Bernier stinks it up and lets in four goals and you need to change the goalie. Then you throw in Quick and put the streak in jeopardy by throwing in a cold goalie. First rule in sports- you never mess with a streak.
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nykingfan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@bcjays,
first rule of sports
win your championship!
In fact, that’s the only rule in sports!
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Rich, Wysh finds that you have a Coldplay title fetish. I don’t know if he’s being serious or just tongue in cheek.
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Why do you guys think NHL Network interviewed Vokoun instead of Quick? It’s just my speculation but I think either Kings management or Quick himself declined the comment. Quick doesn’t want to make this such a big deal. For quick, always team comes first. He is that kind of guy, and that’s what we love about him. And the management doesn’t want Quick and the team to be conscious of this matter either. Forget about the streak, and letting them play one game at a time is the best way to protect the whole team.
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nykingfan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
@goldielocks,
I heard JQ on the NHL XM channel the other afternoon.
They were asking him about the streak and he never once took credit for anything.
It was all about what the guys in front of him were doing.
A true class act and great team player!
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goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@nykingfan,
We’re so lucky to have him on this team!
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PP Anybody? Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@goldielocks, It’s more likely that people on the east coast care more about the Caps, than about the LA Kings.
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I have to agree with Murray on this one. Bernier must get some starts, as he has the skill set to be a true #1 goalie. It’ll be a great game either way.
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If you’re still defending the decision, maybe it’s not a great decision. I understand the coach’s point, but he said he would go with the hot hand.
A lot of people have made valid points, but I can’t say I agree with this call.
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And the 2011/2012 NHL Coach of the Year Award goes to…………………………..LA Kings Insider!
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red49er Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
@wideleft, more appropriate than the L.A. Kings coach. Switching goalies now is bone headed. Got a lot of LaRussa in this decision. Over coaching/thinking. Not like Bernier couldn’t wait another game or two to get in, you know, after Quick has stopped throwing consecutive shutouts.
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nykingfan Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
@red49er,
Please tell me when hockey became like tennis and golf…an individual sport?
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BERNIE BELIEVER. play great tonight and lets get another shutout as a TEAM
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My little memo to the Kings tonight
JUST WIN THE DAMN GAME!!!!!!!!
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GO BERNIER!!!!!!
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Get over it folks. Bernier is in goal.
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what if Bernier stinks it up and lets in four goals and you need to change the goalie? Then you throw in Quick and put the streak in jeopardy by throwing in a cold goalie. Dumb dumb move by Murray.
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For anyone interested, Daryl Evans coming up this hour (2 p.m. PST) on NHL Home Ice. XM
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Parise centers tonight.
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What a bonehead move. Fire TM.
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So what’s everyone goin argue about when Bernier shuts out NJ tonight? GKG!!!!
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OneTimer Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
@Chris G,
PRECISELY what I’ve posted on a few different blogs.
Because I honestly wouldn’t put it past the kid … nor the TEAM right now, since you need both to get a SO.
So what then people?
Or say he gives up 1 or 2 in a 2-point-gaining victory … is this still a FAIL?
Isn’t it about managing your team the best you can, over the longhaul, thereby getting the MAXIMUM points with the MINIMUM exposure to your “best weapons”?
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
@Chris G, if you think Bernier will get a shutout i think thats foolish if kings play how they have been.. first off one of quicks shutouts he stopped 2 breakaways.. theres 2 goals right there on bernier
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Good Job TM. Great Call
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goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
@Lake Forest,
Suffering with multiple personality?
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Lake Forest Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
@goldielocks, I’m just going with the flow. I honestly agree with TM, even though my emotion says put JQ in.
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goldielocks Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@Lake Forest,
Hehe, gotcha.
Who cares…. TM is the coach of this team, not any of us. It’s his call. I appreciate the fact that he’s a man of his word. Told JB he’d play and that’s what’s going to happen. And I truly doubt JQ is losing sleep over this. These guys are professionals. Not some kids in a rec league whining about ice time. GET A GRIP!!
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OneTimer Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:48 pm
@LBCKingsfan,
Figures, a fellow LBC’er states it best.
Good on ‘ya.
(Born at St. Mary’s, Mark Twain, Hoover, Lakewood Hi, CSULB!)
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This “going with the hot hand” comment is so ridiculous to keep bringing up. What if Terry Murray had said “I’m going by a set schedule. It doesn’t matter how well they play”. No one would care if he backed out on THOSE words and decided to go off the set schedule and started Quick because he was on a hot streak. That he said what he said is irrelevant, at least as far as the argument goes. What matters is that it sounds like Murray wants Bernier to play in one of the more important back-to-back conference games. But, if he doesn’t play till then, Bernier will not have played for 3 WEEKS. Playing him tonight gets him prepped for the slightly more important conference games as well.
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Maybe i can get everyone over this hump, get rid of one of them and go the rest of the year with only one goalie. There, done.
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I don’t understand why this is even a question.
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vplaza Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@jet,
Because TM said he was going to ride the hot hand. And benching Quick in favor of Bernier tonight goes against that. He’s a bad bad coach for doing so. Off with his head!
Does that cover it?
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So who squares up against Parise tonight?
My vote goes to the guy that’s played him a lo alreadyt – Mike Richards.
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I see it like this, if you have a baseball pitcher who has three straight complete game shutouts do you want him against the division rival on 4 days rest or the interleague non-rival on 3 days rest? A similar principle is in play here.
I support Murray’s decision 100%. Bernier and Quick are pros. They get it. This team is playing well, the Kings are looking at 3 games in 4 nights coming up and you have to have your top goaltender who is playing well sharp, between the pipes against all division rivals and not overwork him.
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(Bored with the Quick vs Bernier arguments)
Take Stoll off the PP point. Now there’s a sub ject I can whine about.
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Love both Goalies, Quick is the consumate team guy, Bernier more of a “we played sloppy, I didnt see the shot,” but they are competitors for sure. However it works out, its about the team. Ultimately TM will rise or fall with this decision, in the room. What we think frankly has no bearing. We should back both guys, relize our coach has two sides to his mouth and just listen to the words coming out of the middle. Lastly, what if JQ had Patrick Roy’s temperment/resume… I couldnt hear TM becuase of the Stanley Cup rings in my ear… Ah rings, what a nice dream… Lets get the win tonight boys, that’s all that matters to me.
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I guess I can see his reasoning somewhat now, but I still feel Bernier might get spanked by Kovalchuk, Parise and Zajac tonight.
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jason Reply:
October 25th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
@kings king, thank you! wise words
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