With the start of training camp right around the corner, what’s on the mind of coaches? What will be stressed early in camp? Who will play together? Will there be any changes this season? Terry Murray and staff have been mulling these questions, and many others, practically since the end of Game 6 in April. My LAKings.com feature takes a look at the preparation that goes into the start of training camp. Thanks for reading…
As part of the story, Murray gave a hint as to what we might see among the top six, that being a pairing of left winger Simon Gagne and center Mike Richards. That would also put left winger Dustin Penner and center Anze Kopitar together, with two right wingers — Dustin Brown and Justin Williams — as potential fits on either line.
I might as well be Pavlov’s dog right about now!!!
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KingsGuy Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
@Stuart, Man, you always make the first comment, lol. Is your refresh button broken? JK
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Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@KingsGuy, it will be before the season is over, you can bet on that!!
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Finally, something of substance to talk about .. even if we all knew that this would be how things shake out. I’m assuming that Brown and Williams will both get a chance to play with Kopitar since TM loves moving things around, but I hope he sticks with Williams on the “top line”. His creativity and stickwork can open up the ice a little bit and hopefully Kopitar takes advantage of that (and Penner’s big booty in front of the net).
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Kings Fan In Temecula Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 2:24 am
@indeed, who’s lookin at Penner’s booty?
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OK TM – you the parts you said you needed – try not to screw it up – let everyone find a groove and see how it goes for the 1st qtr of the season – before you drop the TM magic mix up on the squad – OH and back to Ethan – who I said when signed was a slow unproductive stiff in CLM last yr – alot of people said he was signed for leadership – funny that’s what I though we overpaid Scuds for ?? and JW, their cup knowledge and leadership – my beef is knock off signing old guys – go with the kids and take the lumps -
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BlueStang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:36 am
@dirtmover, Why don’t you relax and give TM and DL a chance.
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Player-X Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:37 am
@dirtmover, so, you like exactly what? Anything?
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paulhb Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:58 am
@Player-X, while I don’t agree with much dirtmover wrote, I do have major questions about whether Terry Murray can take this team to the next level? His entire coaching career had the same results every team he went to. He has 2 or 3 really good years then the teams always took major steps backward before he was fired. All the monkeying around he does with line combos looks more & more like a shell game from a coach with no confidence in himself and/or his players. It’s time for. TM to put up or shut up
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fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:07 am
@paulhb, can you name ONE line combo in the NHL last year that NEVER changed? Doubt it!
fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:10 am
@paulhb, i say sign him to a 2 year extension…..
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:11 am
@fsd1, that’s a lame retort, it might be better to ask if there was any other team where players went from 3/4 line to 1/2 as regularly as our teams’ did? Yes line combos change like underware, but I do believe chemistry goes a long way in making teams/lines/players better and with all the shuffling, chemistry has been hard to come by. If we can get that gel/jam/chemistry with this bunch we WILL be world-beaters!
fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:21 am
@Stuart Yes, that is a lame retort, but not as lame as saying TM doesnt know how to coach or develop team chemistry or use effective line combo changes. That rant is old and tired.Or saying its time for TM to put up or shut up. TM is the coach this team needs and I tire of posters blaming every issue there is on the line combo changing. If the lines were working and no one gets injured i doubt you see much changing, he isnt an idiot.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:24 am
@fsd1, fair enough for me. TM is not to blame, but it’s easier to change a coach when the ream underaschieves than it is to change the team. We both know many coaches have lost jobs when the situations weren’t really their faults. I can’t think of a name right now, but you catch my drift?
fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:42 am
@Stuart Oh, I understand believe me, however, I still think our improvement and performance has improved each year under TM, and I think that w/o the Kopi injury the results of the playoff last year is different. So Im happy with the coaching and the consistant improvement of team play.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:45 am
@fsd1, I’m with you there! I hope this team makes at least round 3!
Player-X Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@paulhb, and Stuart- This is what I like about this place, reasonable disagreement, common ground, respectful dialogue… way to go guys, it is noticed and appreciated.
paulhb Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
@all… my post was less about the line changes & more about TM’s record over multiple teams of getting fired after a few good seasons. But because TM is 10x better then almost any other coach the kings have ever had the fans are willing to accept whatever result he delivers. I’m sick of mediocrity. This team has the talent needed to contend for a title. I just wonder if they have the coach?
He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
@Player-X,
I need Kings fans to participate in my Yahoo Fantasy Hockey league for Kings fans only. Need at least 3 more teams. Live draft is tomorrow at noon. League is free. I tweaked the rosters and scoring system to allow for more fun. Please sign up below if you’re interested.
League password is gokingsgo. Hope to get some diehards!
http://hockey.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/kopi
[Reply]
fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:50 am
@dirtmover, there ae teams looking for guys like you but i will say appropriate moniker
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Deke'r Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
@dirtmover, Been taking lumps for the last decade…….not tired of it?
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dirtmover Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@dirtmover, Thanks to everybody who took the time to read and respond – I do like some things TM & DL have done – more hits than misses – just the misses have been head scramblers – to me this is the make or break year for the squad – Great goalies – solid D – and serviceable to good forwards for most part – we are top 10 squad in the league – need the results to show – and no the 1st round is not it – conf finals at the very least this year -
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Kings Fan In Temecula Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 2:29 am
@dirtmover, yeah i can see, i mean u can only talk for so long but what matters more than anything is results and the people that can make that happen
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tullskull Reply:
September 11th, 2011 at 1:06 am
@dirtmover, So signing Justin Williams was a head scrambler?
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I like the chemistry of Kopitar and Brown but i would rather see the smash brothers (Brown and Richards) on one line punishing the opposition. I just hope Penner has his game face on this season. Like i said in the past, rather or not Penner is playing great he makes Kopitar play harder.
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KC23 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@KingMe81, I was very critical of Penner last season, but I’m giving him a clean slate and will give him my full support as a fan in the stands as well as on this blog.
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Jamesonafterawin Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
@KC23, As will I. This season has to many reasons not to negative, prior to the reason being met.
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Kings Fan In Temecula Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 2:31 am
@KC23, As will i, if history doesnt repeat itself, eternal optimist lols
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My Hopes goign into the start of the season:
Kopitar is Healthy and pissed he got hurt and super motivated.
Penner wakes up and gets moving and makes some plays.
Double D – gets his head out of his big butt and signs a VERY GOOD contract proposal.. I mean Come on.
Richards – is better than we hoped
(Schenn is worse than we hoped)
The PP clicks like it never had before.
Havlat really mess’s things up in San Jose.
Ive got Loads more – just ask…
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Chris Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@dduffy, Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter – Homer Simpson. hahahaha GO KINGS GO!
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dduffy Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:38 am
@Chris,
HA..
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Brewhemoth Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@Chris, lol good ole’ homer
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BlueStang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:38 am
@dduffy, Good stuff!
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Ok TM, here is the plan:
#1 – Fix the PP
#2 – Fix the PP
#3 – You guessed it, better strength training (just kidding!)
#4 – Emphasize the “go to the net” philosophy and attitude
#5 – Learn the definition of “line” as it relates to hockey – here’s a hint, the definition does not include the words “play with it,” “Tweek it,” or “adjust it” for every game. Think of the term “consistency.”
#6 – Empahsize the concept of not letting the opponent score within 2 minutes of us scoring
#7 – Have fun! DL gave you some new players who I believe give you more speed, skill, flexibility and options.
#8 – Fix the PP
#9 – Fix the PP
#10 – You guessed it “WIN”
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BlueStang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:42 am
@DesertKing, You’re scolding TM on how to coach? With all due respect, how much do you earn a year……coaching?
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DesertKing Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@BlueStang,
Yes, I am and I will coach for free, but would prefer to be paid in nachos. Maybe you are new to the blog, but eventually you will come to understand that everyone here is a “coach,” we all “coach” differently and we all have a good time “coaching.” If TM were a perfect coach, he would win every game. If I were perfect coach, I wouldn’t be on this blog right now. If this were a perfect world, the Kings would have multiple Cups, hockey would be year round, the Kings would still have Gretzky, Robitaille, Vachon, Taylor and Dionne playing, I would have full season seats, and you would be sitting next to me drinking a beer and eating nachos at the game (along with the other Insiders). Hope to see you in the Insiders suite at the Avs game and GKG!!
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Stang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
@DesertKing, Ok, ok, ok………..I’ll take some of those nachos too!
Kings Fan In Temecula Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 2:33 am
@DesertKing, HAHAHA! that was funny
DesertKing Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@Stang
No problem. More nachos garcon for my mon ami
Kings x Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:44 am
@DesertKing, Let’s not forget “have a shoot first mentality”
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Kings Fan In Temecula Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 2:34 am
@Kings x, thumbs up on selected comment
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:10 am
@DesertKing,
#’rs 1,2,8, and 9 will be 1234 on my list. LOL
#6 I would say emphasizing is why teams score. TM always reminds them of that fact as soon as we score, and to be aware of defensive assignments, and play the right way. Maybe a defensive shell isn’t the way to go. If your play got you 1, then attacking can get you 2.
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DesertKing Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
@Dominick,
I sure hope he “reminds” them more reference #6. That killed us last season. I fully agree with the last 2 sentences since you see that in most sports (except curling) LOL.
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Shakes Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@DesertKing,
I actually think your point #6 is the biggest thing we can improve upon that will have huge results. Oftentimes the momentum we built from a big goal never got translated into a dominating win because it got killed quickly. Furthermore I think #6 is the easiest thing to correct via coaching/ increased player maturity.
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He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@DesertKing,
I need Kings fans to participate in my Yahoo Fantasy Hockey league for Kings fans only. Need at least 3 more teams. Live draft is tomorrow at noon. League is free. I tweaked the rosters and scoring system to allow for more fun. Please sign up below if you’re interested.
League password is gokingsgo. Hope to get some diehards!
http://hockey.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/kopi
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My prediction? If Terry doesnt at least get past the 1st round this season he will get canned. The only thing that might save him is if we get a ton of injuries that the team just couldnt overcome. And since Andy Murray is no longer the coach, I am 99% sure that wont happen !
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Weasel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
@puck73,
Arrghhh I still like Andy. But I agree 1st round loss and TMs gone — 2nd round loss and he’ll take a lot of heat but will buy another season.
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CB14 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@puck73, I see the same thing in my crystal ball.
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tornado12 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@puck73, makes me wonder what ever happened to WWAMD moniker? (what would andy murray do?)
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He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
@puck73,
I need Kings fans to participate in my Yahoo Fantasy Hockey league for Kings fans only. Need at least 3 more teams. Live draft is tomorrow at noon. League is free. I tweaked the rosters and scoring system to allow for more fun. Please sign up below if you’re interested.
League password is gokingsgo. Hope to get some diehards!
http://hockey.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/kopi
-Brian
Brian.Brunet@hotmail.com
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Thanks for clarifying TeMu…
“people might wonder why I’m doing that. ‘Why is this line changed again?’ But there is a method behind the whole thing.”"
So excited to get this season started! Glad to see everyone I was uncertain about (Penner, Kopi, Willy) coming to camp in excellent shape. Combine that with the additions of Richards, Gagne and Moreau, there is definitely a buzz in the air. After Doughty signs this afternoon we can all redirect our focus to how unstoppable this Kings team is.
It’s been a long summer… GO KINGS GO
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BlueStang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:53 am
@Niko, Now that is positive!!! I hope DD backs off a little and sees how lucky he is to have been offered a great contract at his young age and inexperienced career. The Kings will be fair with him in the future also.
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Great article, Rich!
Looks like TM is on the right track with preparation and philosophy. For line combinations, Gagne with Richards is a good place to start, and the rest should fall into place. Things are looking good.
Hope Doughty isn’t being too greedy, messing with the team now and for the future.
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Perro Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:44 am
@King John, Sportsline.com is reporting DD just turned down a 9 year deal w orth 6.8 mil/season. I keep switching from blaming the player, to blaming the agent, to blaming DL. It probably is all three to some extent.
I love DD but I hope we don’t go higher then 6.5.
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:14 am
@Perro, I think on a short term deal, that won’t be the case. A short term deal isn’t even on the table though.
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Perro Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:44 am
@Dominick, I agree. Just seems like a lot for a guy with potential to be great. I have no reason to believe DD will not become great but I doubt Lidstrom was making that kind of cash after his entry level deal.
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:56 am
@Perro,
When Lidstrom was at entry level 2.5 million was a lot of money for elite defenseman. DL can offer DD 10 million, but if DD wants a short term, the deals off. Interesting that he said no to a 9 year, and yet people are so angry at him for being greedy.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
@Dominick, but let’s look at greed for a minute… DD doesn’t want to sign a 9 year deal right? Either because he doens’t like the $$’s or the length. Now if it’s the $$’s are you going to defend DD against being called greedy? Now let’s look at the other option. If he doesn’t like the term, then it can be surmised that it’s because he feels he will be worth more than he’d get in this coni after 5 years, which could only be determined by NOT signing a 9 year deal and becoming a UFA and testing the market then, which would mean he would want MORE money. sounds like greed there too. no? Now if the sticking point is a NTC/NMC then it might be different, but I can’t see how you can say it’s not about greed, or thirst for more money.
Maybe the meet in the middle for a 6 year deal? but what would those $$’s look like?
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
@Stuart,
How many players do you see signing a 9 year for their first contract? Yes, it could happen, and yes some players would love that. That is the right of every player out there. Just because he doesn’t want to be forced into a long term commitment doesn’t make him greedy. Stamkos only wanted 5 years, and he got it. Does that mean he’s greedy. I can bring up at least a 100 players through out history who signed short term deals for their first contract. Does that make them greedy also? Why is forcing a player too mean he’s greedy if he doesn’t sign it?
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Dominick, Did you even read what I wrote?? First, we’ve (you’ve) made it very clear that DD is not just your average player, so being said, you can’t then ask how many players sign 9 year deals for their 1st coni, because DD cannot/should not be compared to any other player, since those players are average at best and we can both agree DD is more than that. Secondly, I never said, here or elsewhere that he should be FORCED into a long term deal. Thirdly, WRT Stamkos, I said earlier that the reason he’s not called greedy is that he has already signed. “Greed” is the term thrown out most by fans who can’t understand all the reasons (and we’ve gone through all the reasons) that an individual would not sign a contract to PLAY a game. Lastly, you can’t bring up at least 100 other players for the reason mentioned just now unless they are all 19/20 year old phenoms, and last I checked there have not been more than 20, and since, as you said elsewhere, that money now can’t be compared to money in the future, the same should be said about money in the past, therefore the comparison is a practice in futility.
And you didnt answer any of my questions that I posted. Mainly, what else would you call DD if the reason he has refused to sign is the money on the table or the projected money that he might be able to make come UFAgency? Remember being greedy doesn’t make him the most rivaled person on the face of the earth. It’s simply an adjective used to show that someone wants more than they are offered/given.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
@Dominick, replace rivaled with simply hated/detested. sorry for the wrong word usage
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
@Stuart,
My point is, just because he doesn’t sign it, mean it’s for reasons of greed. You lump all reasons into there and ask hypothetically, but only contribute it too onesides greed. Who is really greedy, the guy who doesn’t want to be controlled, or the team that wants to control him? I bring up others, because like all other hockey players, he should be offered that choice. If the offer is not being offered then who’s greedy? He has the right to Free agency if he wants, and that’s not greed, it’s a right all hockey players have. If they sign it away then that’s on them, if they don’t want too then that’s their right. They don’t owe the team those rights.
And Yes! if it is all about the money, I will call him greedy. Just put up more proof then belligerent factless finger pointing, with tantrum like qualities.
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Stuart,
And I’m not saying you do that.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
@Dominick, no offence, I just can’t see not saying he’s greedy at this point… I think we can just agree to disagree on this one. And like I mentioned, if greedy is the worst thing i’ve ever been called, I’d be alright with it.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:45 pm
@Dominick, I meant no offence taken.
Token Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
@Dominick, @all, If I was Dean, I’d give him a short term deal. I’d offer two deals:
1. The deal is 9 years at $7 million per year. If you don’t like the length of the term, pick any length but for every year fewer than 9 take off half million from the annual salary. Limited NTC with 15 teams you would not want to play for.
2. Complimentary Center Ice for one year, luxury suite at Staples for all Kings games and call me in June 2012.
I think this would be super fair for all sides.
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@token,
#2 only works if Hiedi’s still here wearing fishnets. I’d take that over work anyday.
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@Token,
Also,I wouldn’t be surprised if that wasn’t what DL did when he revised his offer. That’s what I would of done.
OMG, countdown……..I can’t wait. Best season anticipation since the Gretzky trade or the Triple Crown Line magic season. Somehow this team just feels better than even the Gretzky days. This team seems more organic and more cohesive and just down right grittier and tougher than those teams. Just add a pinch of skill and lets see where we go. Also, Quick gives us something we haven’t had since the Vachon days a CONSISTENT goaltender. (Rephrase that – A consistently good goaltender)
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:23 am
@Weasel, I responded to your post below, great post.
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Weasel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
@puck73,
Thanks puck — you know I’ve been happy at work all day and it’s all about the coming season. I just heard the Kings line in Vegas is now 12 to 1. That’s great stuff.
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Michael J. Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:24 am
@Weasel,
Yup, better depth in net and on the blue line than in the Gretzky era. Plus, this team is much younger and has more kids in the pipeline than they had in the McNall/McMaster days.
Plus there are less former Oilers than back then – believe it or not!
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BlueStang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@Weasel, Yes!
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:21 am
@Weasel,
Hard to imagine having goaltending, and we have 2 at an affordable price. It almost seems criminal to be enjoying it after so many years of mismanagement with our goalies. It’s almost as if Kingsfans have become so accustomed to it, that they would rather give one away then sit back and enjoy it for a few years.
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Weasel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
@Dominick,
Agreed, it’s enough to make one giddy!
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I for one would like to see the “philly” line be put together.
Willams…Richards….Gange
Brown…….Kopitar…..Penner.
Parse…….Stoll…….clifford
Richards…..loktionov……Lewis/westgarth
Go Kings Go…Ducks suck!!
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Stang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
@centericeman, Dislike, like KingsFanFTW
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I would have my lines like this
Penner – Kopitar – Williams
Gagne – Richards – Brown
Clifford – Stoll – Moreau
Richardson – Lewis – Westy
Scratches Drewiske,Parse
Quick or Bernier whoever doesnt matter to me both great goalies.
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@KingsFanFTW, forgot my Defense line lol well here they are
Doughty – Mitchell
Scuderi – Johnson
Greene – Martinez
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ringo Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
@KingsFanFTW, like your lines, might want to add hickey, lokti., toffoli to the mix otherwise i like it..
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@ringo, yea i can see that happen
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Stang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
@KingsFanFTW, I like your lines but scratch Westy, move Lewis to wing and put Loktionov at center.
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@Stang, yea that be awesome too I want to see Lokti make it this year he was really good last year too bad they send him down in the bad time cause he got hurt
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Good post on all those subjects. I just want to add this about Jon Quick if I may. Jon Bernier might be the heir apparent, and the chosen one, but I will tell you this, Bernier really has his work cut out for him still because Jon Quick is the most competitive goaltender under 25 that I have ever seen in this organization, and I do mean ever! I am not saying Bernier wont win out eventually, time will tell, but from what I heve seen from Quick when the team is in the shootout, or they are tied or holding a 1 goal lead, I have never seen anyone tougher to beat then Jon Quick at his age, NEVER !
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Michael J. Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:26 am
@puck73,
I don;t remember too much of the Vachon era, but I do know that Quick is the best goalie the Kings have had from Lessard to this present day. Potvin played very well while with the Kings, but I think Quicker has topped him.
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:40 am
@Michael J., Potvin was older when the Kings got him but he played very well. Rogie Vachon was the only one I would put above Quick. Rogie had side to side speed that you could not believe! And like Kelly Hrudey, he would get peppered with shots. With Rogie, the more shots he got, the better he played. How he is not in the Hall of fame is a joke.
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:36 am
@puck73, Rogie not being in there is a joke. If it were just Kingsfans I would understand, but many in the hockey cummunity believe that as well.
Weasel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@puck73,
Potvin was great until we wore him out — did he ever get a day off. Hrudey was great at stopping the first shot — he would have done pretty well with the current team. How many times did Kelly make a first great save and the Kings couldn’t clear?
BlueStang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:58 am
@Michael J., Rogie was awsome unfortunately Gary Edwards was his back up instead of Bernier.
[Reply]
Weasel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
@BlueStang,
I remember Gary Edwards….he hosted the Newlywed Game, right?
King John Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@BlueStang, Actually Gary Edwards was a good back-up goalie and had a low GAA when the Kings were playing well.
DesertKing Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@puck73,
So the key is stay tied or ahead by 1 goal, and never build a lead of more than one goal (aka last year’s playoff debacle) so JQ can stay in his “zone”? I’m good with it since it will be exciting as hell (I’m gonna need a bigger bottle of sedatives)
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:33 am
@puck73,
Hopefully with the upgrade in offensive potential, the Kings won’t have to rely on low scoring games and out of this world goaltending with a stingy defense who can’t make a single mistake without costing us a game, to get the job done. I wouldn’t mind seeing our goalies both go into a 3rd with a 3 goal lead a little more often.
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KC23 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@puck73, Vachon is the best Kings goalie in their history. Hasn’t been anyone close really, including Quick. Quick does have a strong chance though. Quick won a couple of playoff games himself last year and nearly won game one as well. Bernier is trade fodder in my mind.
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Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@KC23, dang…strong words! but it’s time to be strong and bold!!!
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SLIM Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@KC23,
Bernier will not be any kind of Fodder..
{MO Quick will be traded away with great return..
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I’m really looking forward to seeing the big red dog this season. I hope he has a breakout year. He needs to stop getting knocked out so much, he has some skills. He made a sick top corner wrist shot goal on a fast break last season that looked like Federov. GKG! Come’on October.
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Mark Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
@RobSD, Cliffy would be a beast on the top line.
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Well, you have 6 very good players that I think can work in any combination while keeping each player in their natural position. The big question mark is Penner…which penner will we see?
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What should I do with my 2010-2011 Home Smyth jersey.. Keep wearing it? Sell it? Suggestions..
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DesertKing Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@NealyBoy,
Ebay, or wear it when you go to opposing stadiums in case they throw beer and food at you.
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Sebastian Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@NealyBoy, remove the lettering and keep the jersey
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NealyBoy Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@Sebastian, How do you remove the lettering? I think its iron-on?
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Happy Lappy Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
@NealyBoy, get a sew on patch and put Zamboni on it, he never gets traded.
I am always baffled by the folks that think Murray is doing anything other than creating the most solid foundation of team play this organ-eye-zation has ever had. Discipline of structure is a different thing than stifling of creativity.
He had young players and old players when he first came here; almost no established veterans in their prime, and halfway thru a near-complete rebuild. With no top talent, was he not smart to concentrate on a defensive structure? Besides, it is defense that wins championships, I am not the one that made up that saying and it is a cliche for a good reason: it’s true.
Now he is transitioning to adding a scoring touch, and I say ADDING as opposed to changing, because he finally has a complete roster of top 6 players to fill two full lines.
I think it is totally ludicrous to think that Murray is under any kind of “succeed this year or you’re fired” pressure. A total collapse of epic proportions would be the only thing that could make that happen, and the new line-up is just too good for that to happen.
It’s time for people to realize that you have been seeing years of excellent building that can only now actually begin to be expected to pay off with a deep playoff run. Our guys have been valiant in the past two playoff years, but were rightly considered underdogs. Only now are they nearly on par, only now can they be considered legitimate contenders, but we have to expect some adjustment time, some failings, some hardships and some disappointments through the regular season.
But, and I mean a Rob Blake sized “but,” come playoff time this team will be feared, honed, tempered, wizened, ready and justifiably confident. These guys are going to give it everything, and last year that was almost enough to knock of San Jose without Kopi. The year before, Vancouver was given a pretty good scare. Those results were only possible because of one guy: Terry Murray.
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:58 am
@Player-X, I agree with everything you just said in reference to TM. I am just saying I believe he at least needs to get to the 2nd round to keep his job or I am sure that Leiweike and Anshutz may pressure Dean into making a coaching change.
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Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@puck73, I agree with you Puck until the part about Uncle Phil… I doubt he gives a rats who’s coaching his team. Liew. might put pressure, but I think they both trust DL more than we know.
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Player-X Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:09 am
@puck73, Murray has gotten players to over-achieve, has brought along some young guys well, and has fostered marked improvement to the core. My opinion is that Murray is not likely to be the one on the hot seat if the team does not fulfill expectations even in today’s NHL, it will be easily recognized players having sub-par seasons. I just think that it would take two years of drastic underachievement for a coaching change, plus I think that losing Murray would have to also mean losing Lombardi.
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CB14 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
@Player-X, Contradiction Alert. In your main post you said regarding our playoff results the past 2 years, “Those results were only possible because of one guy: Terry Murray.” And now in this post you said if the Kings fail to live up to expectations, “it will be easily recognized players having sub-par seasons.”
HUH? Let me get this straight. If the team does well it’s all because of Terry Murray, but if the team fails to live up to expectations it will be the players fault. I get it, Terry Murray can do no wrong. You can’t have it both ways.
Player-X Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
@CB14-No contradiction at all. If one starts with the premise, as I do, that Murray has proven himself by making great improvement while “short-staffed,” now that Murray is no longer short-staffed it will be up to the improved roster to get it done. The system is proven, in tangible results. The players should be better, on paper, and therefore the results should be better. The only thing that has changed will be an addition of talent to the constant system.
Of course, the counter-argument is that “Murray will force offensive players into bad numbers by his system.” The contradiction to that argument would then become, however, that a coach that has proven a system works in spite of lack of talent cannot be blamed if the same system is implemented by under-performing talent.
System good, therefore results good, even with bad players. Done.
If system stays good, but results go bad with new players, then the reason will be the new players, especially when those players are supposed to be better than the first group.
CB14 Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
@Player-X, My opinion on his sytem is that it doesn’t allow talented players the ability to use their skills the best way possible. If, as you have said, that Murray’s system has proven itself to be a good offensive system, then with these better players we now have, the results should be better. PERIOD. End of story. You can’t disagree about the talent level of this current Kings team. We have 6 forwards who have each scored 30 goals in a season. If they don’t produce the way they have in the past, it’s Terry Murray’s system’s fault. Not the players, who have proven to be able to produce post lockout. TM’s system hasn’t proven itself able to produce post lockout. It’s an old outdated system that doesn’t allow it’s skill players the opportunity they need to produce. A team’s top 2 lines should not be dumping the puck in the zone and chasing it down. That’s a system for 4th liners who can’t carry the puck in the zone or make skilled passes.
“a coach that has proven a system works in spite of lack of talent cannot be blamed if the same system is implemented by under-performing talent.” Yes he can. A coach’s job is to put a system in place that best helps his players perform, and thus win hockey games. Here’s a football analogy for you. The Packers and Patriots are pass first teams because it gives them their best chance to win. The Vickings and Titans are run first teams because it gives them their best chance to win. If Aaron Rodgers suddenly got hurt, the Packers would then become a run first team because it would give them their best chance to win. Thus they would change their system to best fit their team. If TM has to tweak his current system to allow his players the opportunity perform their best, then he should do so. And I’m not implying that he should allow them to do what ever the heck they want to without caring about defense. If, as you and other have said, that the Kings previous teams lacked the skill needed to perform in TM’s system, then we should have no problems excelling this season with our new skilled players.
How is Terry Murray’s system Proven? Yes pre-lockout it did well with Philly, but post lockout it hasn’t proven anything beyond being a mediocre system. The 3 years TM’s system has been in place post-lockout have produced results of 17th, 19th, and 30th in 5 on 5 goals for. That’s not proven to me.
Your last paragraph kills me. “especially when those players are supposed to be better than the first group” SUPPOSED to be? With all due respect, Seriously? We’ve had numerous back and forths on this site and I know you are very knowledgeable about Hockey, but there’s no way you actually believe that Richards and Gagne are worse offensive players than Zues and Smyth. Please tell me you don’t believe that.
Good System with Better Players = Better Results
Bad System with Better Players = Same Bad Results
Only time will tell which one it is. My money’s on the first one, although I wouldn’t mind to be proven wrong.
dMan Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:03 am
@Player-X, Bravo! And agree 100%
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Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:09 am
@Player-X, I’m with you, but as with a lot of people when TM got hired, I felt he’s an excellent teaching/building coach, but he hasn’t been the guy to hit the promised land and walk away with the cup. I hope dearly that this is the team that he gets that monkey off of his back with, but that’s just been his career…
Otherwise, solid post!
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@Player-X,
Excellent post. I think Murray gets a lot of flack because the style seems predictable, and slow (this is a common breakdown, not a personal one). With the added fire power, people are expecting added punch. I personally felt the team had it in them all along, but I’m willing to defer that opinion if the Kings change with the added fire power, and start dominating offensive play.
The line changes are a common concern also, not because they happen (all coaches change it up), but because Murray uses them as an answer to adjustments other teams play, instead of changing the way the Kings play to counter their counter measures.
“The next step” as most see it is a team that doesn’t rely on 1 goal games to win, and will dominate regardless of the team they play against. This is how truely elite teams play. Yes! there will be 1 goal games, but there should be an equal share of dominance as well. 5 on 5 is a weekness, and the power play, and fans expect more. That expectation is rational and should be expected.
Murray is very responsible for the success we’ve seen, and by that standard he will also be held accountable for any failures. I don’t think this is a put up or shut up scenario, but it will be an assessment of whether he can correct the Kings weaknesses. Like you I think it would take a couple of seasons of absolute failure to unseat him though.
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CB14 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@Player-X, “Those results were only possible because of one guy: Terry Murray.” So you’re saying the reason we lost both playoff series the past 2 years is because of Terry Murray? For once I agree with you completely regarding Terry Murray.
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fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
@CB14, not to speak for player x but i dont read the post the same way, can you explain to me how TM lost the series? What coaching move did he make that lost the series? I dont remember him lacing them up at all.
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Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@fsd1, something tells me the answer will be not pulling JQ or not calling the infamous timeout… ugh
fsd1 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@Stuart, Ah yes, now I remember why we lost………ugh is right
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@fsd1, and unfortunately, now that I’m thinking about it again (oh how it pains me) there was a lot of anger on this site about continuing to play Penner, not matching lines better, not protecting that 3rd guy coming late on the rush, attempting to call up Zeiler… UGH
was not TM’s shining moment, for sure.
Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
although on reconsidering my post the Zieler snafu was not TM’s fault whatsoever.
CB14 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@fsd1, You can speak for Player-X because you 2 feel the same way with regards to Terry Murray. Whenever I post a negative comment about TM, I always see yours and his rebuttles.
I know what he meant. It’s just a little back and forth joke between Player-X and I. He knows I’m just twisting his words around too mean something else. We’ve had numerous discussions regarding TM’s coaching ability, or lack there of, and I always look for ways to mess with him about Terry Murray. Alot of what I write is in a joking manner. Although I don’t think TM is a good coach, and I will stand behind my opinion of him until he proves me otherwise. And 2 straight first round exits hasn’t changed my opinion of him.
Stuart listed 2 examples of my disgust for Terry Murray. Other complaints are the horrible Power Play, and an offensive system that lacks creativity and was concieved during the clutching and grabbing era of the mid nineties.
Player-X Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
@fsd1, by the way, that timeout was called, by TV. Lengthy break in the action occurred, right after/during the time in question. The next thing that happened was Doughty following Couture on a skate below the goal line, then out above the faceoff dot. The problem with that was twofold: first, Couture did not have the puck when Doughty had Couture, and second, Couture got inside Doughty facing the net because Doughty stopped skating and also lost Couture by watching the point. Doughty lost his man, lost position, and lost focus on an out-of-position coasting job, and then Couture got the puck 8 feet fron the net completely uncovered with Doughty water skiing at the edge of the play. And for that, I gues we should blame Murray, right? Funny how when Johnson loses his man he is a crappy d-man, but Doughty can do no wrong.
Player-X Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
@CB14, twisted logic, pretzel quality, and denies the facts that Murray compensated pretty damn well for losing his top center against San Jose, among other qualities.
If you want to say last season was a complete failure, than blame Murray. But, if you want to make a reasoned, balanced, nuanced appraisal of good and bad, you have to admit that Murray had a positive impact in many areas. Was he perfect? No, but even the coaches that win the Cup do it without being perfect, so I don’t expect Murray to be perfect.
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CB14 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
@Player-X, My comments are on time delay so I understand why you didn’t see my response to fsd1. I’ve previously admitted to you that TM has done a very good job teaching this team a good defensive mentality, my problem with TM is, and has always been, his offensive ineptitudes. For 2 years now TM has tried to increase the Kings 5 on 5 scoring and has failed to do so.
From Evaluation : Terry Murray
n May 10th 2011: “The bad: In terms of offensive improvement, Murray had two publicly-stated goals at the beginning of the season: improve 5-on-5 scoring and improve the Kings’ puck possession on offensive-zone entries. The Kings made only a negligible improvement in 5-on-5 scoring (148 goals, up from 145) and too often — either by design or player instinct, or some combination thereof — the offense devolved into dump-and-chase mode at the first sign of resistance in the neutral zone.”
So TM failed to improve the 2 publically stated goals he had at the beginning of the 2010 season.
From “How to Improve?” April 29 2010 : Rich asks, “Finally, Murray was reminded how, this time last year, he stressed 5-on-5 scoring as the major thing the Kings needed to improve. Going into this offseason, what is the major point of improvement he would stress?”
So for 2 straight years TM’s goal has been to improve 5 on 5 scoring, and has failed to do so both years. Needless to say I’m not optimistic by reading his recent comments from Rich’s article today: Great Expectations, “The big focus, as it was last year, is on the offensive part of the game. Going into the training camp, I want to talk about that and continue to work on 5-on-5 scoring.” Keep talking Terry, it keeps everyone thinking you’re a good Head Coach.
I’m excited about this season. The Kings have a very competitive team with depth like we’ve never seen really; from goaltending, defense and with the addition of Richards, Gagne and Moreau, some solid offensive depth and experience. The team has size and strength. A good combination of veterans and youth.
I’ve been a Murray supporter as I feel he’s done a great job working from the back forward, now he’s got to show us that his system and methods can win in the playoffs. Unless there’s a catastrophe, I expect a deeper run in the playoffs – possibly a finals appearance.
It’s all good!
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Time for DD to shine…
…that’s Davis Drewiske. Pencil him into the lineup until Doughty gets this contract issue straightented out.
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@Pumpernicholl, Davis Drewiske is a hard worker, but that doesnt mean he can beat out Muzzin, Hickey, or Voynov, that is yet to be determined. I believe that Muzzin has the biggest upside with his height, long stick, and hockey IQ. He was a plus 22 at Manchester last season and played in all critical situations. We will see if any of these guys who shined in Manchester last season is ready for the big dance !
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Stang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:23 pm
@puck73, Rock ‘n Roll
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Random thoughts:
Finally – real hockey talk is back!
Hmmm. Seems like we got Left Wings galore. Question now, who will be RW 1, 2 & 3? Oh Hell, alright, 4?
Pay Stoll extra to conduct after practice KFA – Kings Faceoff Academy.
Guys worried about their jobs: Kompon & Westy.
Will Murray have the guts to roll 4 Lines consistently?
Meehan, Lombardi & Doughty all playing brinksmanship. Only assured loser in that game – Doughty.
I dislike the new Logo – but I will say this: If the new look comes with a new attitude (winning, uhm, without Charlie Sheen), then OK. If this team begins a tradition of believing in themselves, playing hard and smart, and kicking ass and taking names from game one forward, then the new logo will actually mean something.
The Kings are Dead – Long Live the Kings!
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Stuart Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:14 am
@IceGuy, love that last line!!! hear!hear!
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tornado12 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@Stuart, finally someone gets it right…its not here, here for the ingnoramants! sry, just had to vent, hard day
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:26 am
@IceGuy, I agree with you about Doughty. We have enough depth to at least make the playoffs without him. I am not suggesting that we trade him, but the fact is, as much as I like Doughty, I like the Kings even more and I trust that Dean will do whatever he thinks is best for this organization so I am not worried at all.
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Player-X Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:48 am
@puck73, agreed puck, especaillay about Lombardi. I’d hate to go without Doughty, but like I said in an earlier thread, the Kings play without Doughty, but Doughty does not play without the Kings.
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
@Player-X, Agreed. I rather not trade Doughty, I think he has elite talent, but ultimately Dean has to work within the rules of a hard salary cap which has no flexibility like the NBA. If Dean signs him, then I assume that it is in the Kings best interests. If he doesnt, and he ends up getting dealt, then I will assume thats in the Kings best interests as well. To me, Lombardi gets the benefit of the doubt when you consider what he has done for this organization in 6 drafts…just phenomanol !
I strongly believe in the first game put Westgrath and CLune on the top line with Penner and get the game off to a robust start. Go Kings cant wait.
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Sebastian Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@gene, first pre-season game?
i really doubt Clune will make the regular season squad. didnt they place him on waivers last season, and nobody picked him up?
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gene Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
@Sebastian, That may be true but he has alot of heart and plays at 110% every shift. DO bad DD 8 doesnt do that.
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I would love a long term deal with Doughty, but it does not seem to be working out. DL may take the same route as he took with JMFJ. A one-year deal got Jack back on and practicing with the team without missing camp, then a mid-year long term deal was obtained under reasonable terms. The strategy worked great. Would it work with DD? With a one year deal in place with DD, the terms of a long term deal would depend on whether DD has a massive year this year or another mediocre year like last year. If its a massive year, I guess the Kings would have to pay him (or lose him).
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Token Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
@BluLiner, In DD’s case that one year deal is called the Qualifying Offer. He’s had that in his hands all summer long and is a 10% raise on his $870K ELC salary. I don’t think he will sign that and I doubt DL will give him a free ride to arbitration rights.
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BluLiner Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@Token, Hmmm, I see what you mean. Thanks.
Maybe there is a position in between (2 year deal) that is possible.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/18/sports/sp-kings-jack-johnson18
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
@BluLiner,
The Kings are not allowed to negotiate until a final year of a contract. On a 2 year contract, that would give both sides a year to step back with no more pressure this season. Talks could resume next summer, with a full year to negotiate a long term deal. Everybody wins.
Stang Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@Token, arbitration might be the best thing.
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Nick Kypreos tweeted that Doughty has rejected the 9 year offer for 61.2M!
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408kingsfan Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
@Harry, I wonder what Doughty/Meehan want in terms of $ or length of contract
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danglebagel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@408kingsfan, I really doubt he’s rejecting the $$$ side of it. He’s probably looking for a 5 year deal while the kings are pushing for a 9 year.
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On top, he will not attend the event on Sunday
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After Doughty’s less than stellar last season, I needed a reminder of why this kid is worth so much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0bjhxWSKYQ
We want Doughty, Doughty wants the Kings, DL has offered Doughty “Kopitar $”, shouldn’t that be enough? I’m confident it will get done and look forward to DD leading us to the first of many SCF’s this season. At least this whole thing has given us fans something to feed on!
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Deke'r Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
@Niko, Be reasonable….who can live on $6-7 M/yr? Even congress says they live paycheck to paycheck on $175K/yr, so give ‘em a break. I think he’s going for $35M for 4 years.
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CB14 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
@Deke’r, There’s NO chance in hell Drew gets that much.
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number 6 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@Deke’r,
Impossible. There is absolutely no way DL does that. Then Doughty (if I’m not mistaken) can walk at the end of that. Quisp knows for sure. It’s either four years or five years. I seriously doubt DL A) pays him mega bucks and B) does it so that he can walk soon as he turns UFA.
That’s like…… let’s see what can we do to turn the screws to DL…. well, let’s get him for the most money and the worst possible term.
If I’m wrong feel free to send me back my words. I find a holdout far more likely than what you suggest.
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Deke'r Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@number 6, I was being abit facetious and would surley (and don’t call me shirley) hope that’s not what’s going on.
Deke'r Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
@number 6, “surely”…
He Shoots, He Scores Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
@Niko,
@puck73,
I need Kings fans to participate in my Yahoo Fantasy Hockey league for Kings fans only. Need at least 3 more teams. Live draft is tomorrow at noon. League is free. I tweaked the rosters and scoring system to allow for more fun. Please sign up below if you’re interested.
League password is gokingsgo. Hope to get some diehards!
http://hockey.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/kopi
-Brian
Brian.Brunet@hotmail.com
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I just hope they don’t pay DD so much that they have to dump other good players so that they can stay under the cap.
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puck73 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@Jerry B, I think most people would agree with you there. Tell ya what though, if Doughty and Meehan wont budge, maybe we can trade him to New Jersey for Parise and the Kid Larsson who they just drafted, that way Doughty and Kovalspank can hang out together and laugh how much money they are making while the rest of the team sucks because Vanderbeek and Lamoureillo cant afford to pay anyone else ! lol
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KingsGuy Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
@puck73, Haha
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number 6 Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
@puck73,
love the french twist to Lou’s name (L’amour’eillo). Nice. But it’s actually Lamoriello. No biggie. Just struck me as rather romantic interpretation.
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FVkingsFAN Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 11:09 pm
@puck73, im fine just trading doughty for parise straight up! just as long as we get rights to parise after next season, i think hes still restricted like DD?
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Dominick Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
@Jerry B,
We have over 9 mill in cap space. Just looking at that, DD would have to want 10 or 11 mill for that to happen, so you’ve already got your wish.
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For sure I thought DD8 would have signed by the end of the week. And if the rumor is true about him turning down 9 for 65 mil. We just might have a holdout. Do it Deno!!
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danglebagel Reply:
September 9th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
@Enrique, I think its the term of the deal. Dean is smart, he realizes this contract is huge for his team next year and he’ll eventually buckle giving Doughty a 5 year deal instead of the 9 years he so desperately wants. The ball is kind of in DD’s court and Dean will have to give way on that to get him signed.
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tornado12 Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 9:49 am
@danglebagel, i respectfully disagree. As has been pointed out, the Kings keep playing without DD, DD does not play without the Kings. My understanding is, he is tied to the Kings for the next 5 years of his career, whether he likes it or not. It is not an ideal situation, but our D corps is stacked with talent and although DD’s world class talent would be missed and cannot be matched, we have others to take his place on the roster, hockeygod forbid, he ends up holding out.
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Penner – Kopitar – Williams
Gagne – Richards – Brown
Clifford – Stoll – Moreau
Quick – Lewis – Bernier
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Dominick Reply:
September 10th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Stang,
I hope the 2 Jonathans don’t have to wear their goalie pads playing on Lewis’s wings.
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Another year is almost cranked up……..this is awesome.
Hey Kings fans, “what is the 1st thing you will do when the cups lands in LA in June”??
Harty
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good article, i am feeling a little like Pip
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