Hello to everyone… The summer has officially come to an end for me — R&R time has been much appreciated — so we’ll jump back into things with the latest update on the Drew Doughty contract talks, courtesy of a chat today with Dean Lombardi. There have been no new discussions in the past two weeks. The Kings have a long-term offer on the table, but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see the issue extend into late August, or perhaps even into September. It’s worth noting that Doughty’s agent, Don Meehan, also represented Evgeni Nabokov when, in 2002, Nabokov held out before signing a contract with the San Jose Sharks (and then-GM Lombardi) in late October.
As for the current Doughty negotiations, Lombardi said today, “I think it’s fair to say that in the last conversation, we set the parameters, as to where we feel his contract should be. We talked about a number of scenarios, and I guess now it’s their move. They never really responded.”
I also asked whether, independent of contract talks, the coaching staff has been in regular contact with Doughty in terms of hockey-related discussions. Lombardi said, “Yeah. (Assistant coach) Johnny Stevens handles the D, and it’s Johnny’s responsibility to stay in contact with these guys throughout the summer. Murph [Terry Murray] has talked to him and Johnny has talked to him a number of times. It’s all hockey. Obviously coaches are never involved in negotiations. That’s not their area. But Johnny has been pretty religious about staying in touch with him, because he kind of runs the defense under Murph. So they’ve had constant dialogue, but it’s all been about hockey and getting ready for the season.”
He returns, and he brings news of dry land.
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@jonsey,
but at least he returns! Something “new” to read!
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tmp32 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:54 am
@kingsxstevenxkings, Will somebody other than me please contact on the lack of sack our management group is showing in this Doughty matter. Why is it that we have to let other teams set the scale and tone in player salaries. Is AEG so hurting for money that they have to nickel and dime our supposed best/biggest upside player. Is it possible that the reason why we come in second in every UFA instance is because we have never made an offer so overwhelming that, even if the UFA wanted to consider other teams, our offer was so overwhelming they couldn’t refuse. Maybe then LA would be the place that drew players instead of just using us to up their money when they sign elswhere. Give Doughty the contract that sets a standard. Send a message to the league and other premeir players that we have AEG pockets and were going to do what ever it takes to bring a Cup to LA. So long as we nickel and dime, that’s all we’ll get in return.
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tmp32 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:57 am
@tmp32, Small market teams have to be fiscally responsible. Is that what we are?? Small Market?? San Jose may have had money issues. We’re AEG for crissake!! We’re Building a Krillion Dollar football stadium in less than three years. We can’t sign a defenseman???….
SeattleKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Settle down boys. Lombardi is doing the responsible thing here. You cannot just throw money at players. You have to consider all factors. Do you really think DD is worth more than Kopitar? Who has a bigger impact on the game? I think DD comes in third in that category behind Kopi and Quick. If you give DD more money than Kopi, do you end up with a disgruntled Kopi? What about the cap hit? What happens when we have to resign Quick and/or Bernier? Quick will be getting a huge increase. Like it or not what other players sign for has an impact on the whole league. It is what players and owners use to negotiate. Is DD worth as much as Weber right now. Not after his performance last year. Not to mention his habit of being out of shape. His attitude is a little bit too non chalant. Don’t get me wrong, I love Doughty. But I don’t think he is worth more than the reported 6.5M. Also, from what i’ve ready from Lombardi, it isn’t as much about the money, than it is about the length of term. Doughty wants big bucks and short term, so he can get another increase in a few years. I think you should be more pissed at Doughty than at Lombardi. If he holds out, I could care less if he ever comes back. That kind of attitude can be a cancer in the locker room. “Sorry I wasn’t here to help the team out, but I’m worht more than all of you and the team wouldn’t give it to me, so I had to hold out.” I DON’T THINK SO!
Ike Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@tmp32, The team could be owned by apple and exxon combined and they would still have to live with the salary cap rules.
FoKus Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@tmp32, @ seattle kings fan
Those are all great questions that DL is thinking about and considering. We all know DL is a brain. This is how he works. He considers all factors before coming to a conclusion. In other words he is being responsible. There are so many irresponsible contracts out there. An irresponsible or bad contract is one that not only over pays a player but also holds a team down from competing at a higher level. If you don’t believe me look at the contracts that the Rangers, Oilers, and Flyers have signed. No team wants that. Some teams (like the ones mentioned) don’t know how to avoid it and make the same mistakes every year. The Kings are not one of those teams. they have ZERO bad contracts. as good as Doughty is he could be signed to a bad contract. You do not sign RESTRICTED free agents to bad contracts because they are RESTRICTED. In other words, they have zero leverage. DL knows this. He also knows that Doughty wants to play and get this done faster than the agents (guessing, don’t know that for sure). DL is in control and that is what we as Kings fans want to have.
Spanky Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
@kingsxstevenxkings, I guess we could be like
the Rangers and throw money at every player
available (Lindros, Jagr, and now Richards). How
many have Cups have they won the last 10 years?
Further more…shame on AEG for shelling out over
a billion dollars to build a football stadium…which
won’t be coming out of our pockets. I guess we could
give it to Doughty instead.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
@jonsey, Just knowing Rich is there guarantees news if there is any.
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ToughD Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 12:39 am
@SeattleKingsFan, couldn’t have said it better myself. Firstly, great to have Rich back. Secondly, AEG is the answer to the joke “How many AEG men does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”…20 men in suits to discuss the profit margin. Thirdly, probably Doughty’s agent deserves most (all) of the blame.
Anyone know if Doughty’s laying off the Ronald McDonalds?
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First!
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jonsey Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@Jefreyryan, Ha! I’m here 24/7, whether you want me here or not. Lol. No life.
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furrylats Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
thank you for illustrating why this is neither useful nor accurate.
Good job Jefreyryan. I applaud you.
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
@furrylats,
I “2nd” this
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:39 am
@kingsxstevenxkings, LMAO! nice!
benjos12 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@Jefreyryan,
Can we please stop this nonsense of “First”? Not to be mean or anything, but does it make you feel happy or proud? Is it a great accomplishment of your life? And I am being totally honest. And thank you furrylats for pointing out that this is not useful nor accurate
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@benjos12,
Compliments of Urbandictionary.com and very accurate for this first problem….
First (noun): SPAM commenting on anything with the incorrect assumption you are the first to contribute. Only comments which refer in some way to the subject commented on are real first comments. In other words it isn’t a first post solely to add the word first.
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Jeff Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
@kingsxstevenxkings,
I still don’t get it either. I always figured it was peoples lame attempt to annoy me!
Dominick Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
@benjos12,
C’mon guys. It was an attempt at some humor. It’s all fun and games till some one loses an eye, but I don’t think we have to worry about that here.
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39scars Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:49 am
@Dominick, Frst, just lost an eye
MrMister Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
@Jefreyryan, This should be considered spam and thus treated as such.
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Jefreyryan Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
@MrMister, hey give me a break ive never been first before.. and it was my first time trying it jeeze so much hate. haha. Does anyone know why doughty hasent said anything? is he not allowed too?
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Jon Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
@Jefreyryan,
He’s talking to the right people if he’s keeping in contact with the coaches. He’s just not discussing things with the media because, frankly, there’s nothing to discuss at this point. We’ll hear from him soon enough.
Or, maybe he just doesn’t want to be “First”! Couldn’t resist…
King Cobra Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:15 am
@Jefreyryan, You guys need to remember school has not started back up yet…….
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Jefreyryan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:49 am
@King Cobra, your right haha and it seems like the off season is just dragging along.. I can’t wait for the season to start
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He lives!!!! A new thread! Hahaha
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Who will be first to throw out the numbers? DL or Meehan? Does anyone know?
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jonsey Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@Renbe,
Really, there’s no rush. It’ll be when training camp starts if we see what this guy is really made of.
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KC23 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
@Renbe, DL already threw out 6.5 for nine years. Agent’s turn to counter. I’m concerned DL and this agent have had issues before. I hope DD doesn’t become a pawn in a ego driven p-ing contest.
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Kasey9 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
@Renbe, DL will prob eventually match w.e he wants since he cant afford to play Doughtys little contract games and it will prob happen right before camp starts
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number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 6:57 am
@Kasey9,
Not sure I agree with you. If DL doesn’t match w.e he wants then Doughty will be watching a lot of hockey on tv next season, and rather than make $6.5M, or $7.5M, he’ll make zero M.
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Token Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@number 6, Nah, he will play with Oscar and Bud in Sweden. Then when he finally signs with the Kings mid-season he has to go through waivers and the Ducks pick him up!
RobSD Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:53 am
@Renbe,
Let’s just hope since they have been keeping in “contact” all summer and DD-bag has a lot on the line that he shows up to camp in pro athlete form and not as doughnuts.
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Also, I’m looking for someone to split my season seats 2 tix, sec. 107 row 5. email me if your interested mello2@aol.com. Money’s tight but can’t give them up…
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jonsey Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
@Renbe, I really would but I hate that section.
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Randy S Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Renbe,
Did you post that at Lets Go Kings ticket exchange?
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Matt George Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
@Randy S,
I tried Ticket Exchange last year.
I do NOT recommend them.
What they quietly keep out of all in game advertisements is that they will sell your seat for you … and then keep the money.
I’m not kidding … they call it “Exchange” because you are given a credit towards a future game … thus the “exchanging”.
It’s quite the scam really.
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Matt George Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@Matt George,
WUPS … sorry I miss read the post …
Let’s Go Kings dot com is different from the LA Kings Ticket Exchange. My experience was with the Season Ticket office.
I know nothing about LGK.
You da man rich! Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:40 am
@Matt George, I suggest stubhub. When I have a problem they usually pay for my tix or find better n they eat the difference. Great company
Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 6:49 am
@Matt George, I agree. Ticket exchange is a scam. IF you’re able to find a buyer, they first take a percentage, and they “give” you the rest as credit for future games. The few times I posted tickets and attempted to sell them (at a loss, even before the fees) not a single buyer.
King Cobra Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:19 am
@Matt George, As far as buying tickets I think Ticket Exchange works great…
Renbe Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@Matt George, I sold some last year on Craigslist and its free. I would never use the Kings site, not only is it hard to get your money but they charge you 10%. Still trying to make a buck on everything but can’t print a piece of cardboard with both teams line-ups.
OCKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
@Randy S,
I just went over there and scoured the site for ticket exchange. Finally I searched and only found the thread “ticket exchange forum gone?” started on August 8th…
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Randy S Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
@OCKingsFan,
yeah they just revamped the site and it’s gone at the moment. It’ll soon be back. It’s really not an exchange. King fans who have extra tickets or people who want season partners post what they’ve got. No one can sell above face value and I have often just exchanged days with others when I can’t make it for some reason.
OCKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:54 pm
@OCKingsFan,
Thanks – that’s exactly the sort of ticket exchange forum I was looking for!
Tito Jackson Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:40 am
@Renbe,
I’ve had nothing but the best experiences with Stub Hub selling or buying. They really go out of their way to make each customer happy.
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I think a hold out on Doughty’s part would be disaterous for his development at this point in his career and adversely effect the team this season. Doughty needs to understand that he is still young and he will get paid more than just about any other player in the league over the course of his career. Prove to the fans that you are committed to this team, this city, & the fans. Prove to DL that you’re worth every penny you’re asking for by performing up to your ability. Show up in shape & committed to being a better player & the best D-man in the league. My patience for DD wears thin, he’s coming off as a spoiled child who’s been reading his own press clippings…DD I beg you to prove me wrong.
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jofa6000 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@uclaemt, well said.
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Jeff O Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@uclaemt,
I agree! I love DD but my passion to see this team succeed has been around well before DD was even born. To me this is about the team winning the cup. Not about Doughty becoming the highest paid player on the Kings and potentially hurting our chances later in the season (because of a salary cap) to acquire that one additional player to take us deep into the playoffs.
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Michelle Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
@uclaemt,
I’be been saying all last season doughty act
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McCheese Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
@uclaemt, as much as I haven’t wanted to agree with this sentiment, it is definitely looking that way. Compare how this is going to JMFJ’s situation. Granted they are on different levels, but does DD really need to play this stupid game? Yes its a lot of money, and I don’t blame him for trying to get paid, but he is also playing a game… a team game. The whole team suffers because of the noise. Cut the crap and get this done already.
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number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:02 am
@uclaemt,
Appreciate your comments, but it’s sort of the same thing many of us have been saying for weeks.
Also, here’s another pov. Let’s say Jonathan Bernier has a 30% better season this season than he did last season (which is pretty good for sure) and then he’s eligible for a new contract after that (whether 2012 or 2013) then does he too get to be paid based on his ‘potential’ as a goalie? I mean this whole ‘based on potential’ thing seems so bizarre to me. What about actually earning it. One fantastic year IS fantastic. But really, it’s still one year.
It’s not like Sidney Crosby where after two years it’s just obvious that you’re the face of the league.
Even Stamkos was getting better and better each and every year, and yet in spite of the ‘evidence’ he provided, he still managed to get a deal done.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:26 am
@number 6, Great take, as usual! I think this is being driven by the agent, though, and as most players do, Dewey is leaving it in his hands.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:28 am
JJ didn’t have the same kind of first year Dewey had, and didn’t come in with an agent, so while he seems to have gotten a fair deal, he didn’t “play the game” Meehan seems to be playing, which seems to be the domain of a “hot shot” agent.
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King Cobra Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:23 am
@uclaemt, I agree.
Drew, lower your standards to 6.5 million a year if you can stomach it. I know it will be tough…..
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King John Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
@uclaemt, I agree with your comments regarding Drew. I had Jack and Drew reversed in my thoughts of character, humility, and loyalty early last season. But it seems I was wrong. I hope Drew shows he’s just not a greedy young player.
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JoeKing Reply:
August 17th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
@uclaemt,
+1!
Hate to pile-drive, but, DD was a loose cannon last year. How many times did he mishandle a puck late in the game resulting in a loss? Close to a dozen? He was an AMAZING rookie. His 2nd year was very mixed. I hope he puts his ego in check, otherwise he’s disruptive to the team. Is it me or did he seem disassociated from his teammates last year? I hope I’m wrong on all accounts and as we know, opinions are like xxx whereas we all got one. Carry on gents..
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Is that Kings tatoo on Drew’s butt starting to fade?
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fred Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
@kozak, So much for being a life-long Kings fan and wanting to be a King. He may end up the way of Nabakov….wayward prima-donna!
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jofa6000 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
@kozak, LOL i think that was rob blake.
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Darrell Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:30 am
@jofa6000, It was a henna tattoo.
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This is for Dean
Like I said here before. I saw the first Kings coming on the ice many moons ago as the Springfield minor league team. Dean, Doughty is not worth your headaces. Let him go elswere. Als the people here writing have not seen all the Kings like I have. Let Doughty go Dean, he is not worth all that money you offert. Let him walk the un employment line. And Doughty in case you read this, u to greedy. The first LA Kings fan. John
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Jonathan Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
@JOHN,
You’re a “Grade A” dip.
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JOHN Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@Jonathan, So are you lol
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JOHN Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@Jonathan,
You got plenty cuff lol
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Rider Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@JOHN, Please tell me you’re joking?
Doughty actually wants to play for us, the only problem we’re having here is the NTC/NMC callouts and Deano isn’t big on them apparently.
All’s I want to know is how long, how much and what clauses if any when it comes down to it.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@Rider, Don’t feed the trolls.
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@Token,
Nom nom nom… troooll foooood haha. This long wait is making King’s fans go crazy..c’mon frozen fury!
KC23 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@Token, Amen.
McCheese Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
@Token, I say feed the trolls a little, because the troll food comment below is the best laugh I’ve had on this site in a long while!
JOHN Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
@Rider,
No rider I am not
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JOHN Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@JOHN,
I see the replyse here. I wish you all are the Kings fans like I am
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LAPD Line Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@JOHN, Now I understand what this facebook business is all about….
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HawaiiKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
@LAPD Line, agreed. what a shame.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:31 am
@LAPD Line, No kidding. I never trolled, and I can’t get off moderation for a comment or two.
kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
@JOHN,
Apparently grammars and spelingz are h@rd to f!gur ou+?
Letting DD go is ridiculous, there’s a good reason why NO ONE..not even the worst analysts have suggested this.
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 6:55 am
@kingsxstevenxkings, Hahahahaha!!!! I was thinking the same thing regarding spelling and grammar… I hop I spelt al dat rite
jess Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
@JOHN,
Here is a big hammer, now head over to the munitions testing department in the basement and ask for Gomer.
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JOHN Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
@jess,
LEARN YOUR HOCKEY FIRST LOL
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jess Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
@JOHN,
Upon your 100th trip back to the same store for airplane glue inside of a week, wouldn’t the guy behind the counter start to ask some basic questions?
CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
@jess, LOL, and to answer your question, no the guy behind the counter wouldn’t. He works behind the counter at the model airplane store selling toy airplanes to 60 year old’s who still wish they would’ve become pilots. I doubt the guy behind the counter could put 2 and 2 together. No offense to anyone who sells airplane glue. LOL
McCheese Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
@JOHN, Dear John, you are truly spectacular and your wise and illuminating rants inspire some of greatest replies of all time. Keep being you… always.
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JOHN Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
@McCheese, Ty Mc
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fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:52 am
@JOHN, You are more than one card short, im thinking 10-20, kinda hard to play this game you are playing with such a deficit.
Give Mitchell the money DD wants he was better on defense lol
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Dominick Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
@Kasey9,
Personally I don’t like to make claims like that unless I have stats to back it up, but if you have some other source to back up those claims up, feel free to post them so I can blow a hole in them.
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I’m guessing that this doesn’t get done until right before camp opens. Doughty’s side is in no hurry.
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Anjin Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
@EJ, I just hope Drew is preparing for camp regardless if he’s signed by then or not. I don’t want him to sign half way through camp and find out he’s been playing xbox for the past 3 months.
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KC23 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
@Anjin, Me either, PS3 or nothing at all. :p
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:05 am
@EJ, I think we’re fine! The fact is we need DD, and the deal WILL get done. All this fickle talk about letting him go is done so by people who can hardly put a sentence together, let alone understand how contracts work. These things occasionally take time. The smarter those involved in the negotiations, the longer they will take. Quit hating on Drew! You all know he is talented! “let Drew stand in the unemployment line.” That has to be one of the least thought out scenarios I’ve ever heard! We can argue about his conditioning, and his performance last year, and blah blah blah. He is worth what the market says he’s worth. And it sounds like money isn’t even the issue. So relax people. It will get done, in due time. Enjoy your summer!
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I suddenly have much more respect for JJ than DD. I hope DD reads this blog and figures out the right thing to do before it damages the team
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Buster Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:44 am
@Otto Ped,
The best thing DD can do is fire his agent.
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bonvivant1 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:56 am
@Buster, It makes no business sense to fire his agent. Part of the reason Doughty is not signed is because Meehan is doing his job. Negotiation is about being very clear as to what you want. Because you have two parties negotiating, in this case for the same end, the details have delayed the deal from getting done. Getting from point A to point B is where the subtleties of negotiating seem arduous but if the means justifies the ends then they will get it done. If seen no indication from reading and listening to Lombardi that a deal won’t get done.
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Otto Ped Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@Buster, Maybe he should hire JJ as his new agent
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It would be interesting if anyone knows the history of the Nabokov negotiations whether any particular issues led to the signing: i.e. did the team start poorly? Did either management or the player eventually cave? Were there long gaps between the two sides talking? What was going on with management in San Jose at that time? What has been the state of the Lombardi/Meehan relationship since? What is Meehan’s SOP with other clients?
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@JackKent Cooke, yeah, Lombardi got fired then the Kings picked him up. The rest is history made.
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Otto Ped Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@JackKent Cooke, The team did start poorly and Nabokov later said that he always regretted causing such a disruption to the team.
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
Old article on DL’s firing from the Sharks… http://www.hockeynut.com/0203/sharks0303.html
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JackKent Cooke Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@kingsxstevenxkings,
Thanks. I clipped the most relevant paragraph from the article:
When San Jose won just one of its first five games, Lombardi abruptly capitulated to Nabokov’s salary demands — but without participating in training camp, Nabokov started slowly and never got into top form this season.
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
I read it the same way.. we don’t need DD coming into the season w/o participating in training camp. Hoping for a resolution before then for sure.
BringBackMarcel Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
God forbid DD’s been advised that “this is the way it works” and that he’ll just have to wait until the Kings have been wounded, cave in, and come begging…
I, too, wish to know more about the details of the Nabokov contract negotiations. I think there are agents who see the big picture and look to build the best possible future for their young millionaires, and some who just see dollar signs at contract time. DD’s in a position to make his career about building a life-long relationship with this team and this city. Rogie did it. Davey Taylor did it. Luc did it. Blakey chose to give it up and was rewarded with a Cup as an add-on to the roster of his long-time opponent…
DD could sign for an ungodly amount of money, STILL leave the team in a position to go for a Cup, and work to become a beloved hero of the franchise. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
This is just a test of the kids’ character… If he tries to hold the Kings hostage, for whatever reason, LET HIM GO. Test failed.
It would be a terrible shame andI’ll shed another tear – to go along with the ones for Dionne, Luc, Blakey, but there’s nothing to be gained from feeding the ego of a spoiled millionaire at the expense of team chemistry and a shot at some long-term success.
kevinebel Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
@BringBackMarcel
Except qualifying for post-season play in twenty-four seasons, advancing past the first round twelve times and, past the second round once, isn’t synonymous with “long term success.
So I wouldn’t look to our past and they way we’ve dealt with/traded players, as a winning strategy.
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:37 am
@ BringBackMarcel, I get the idea that’s exactly what he’s being told.
BringBackMarcel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
@JackKent Cooke, I think the prospect of staying with THIS Kings team is a formula for long-term success. It seems to me that a long-term deal with DD (that doesn’t cripple the franchise with a crazy cap hit) would set this team up with a stable young core that we really could build on for many years to come.
We are really close to getting an opportunity to watch something special develop here – a great group of really talented, hard-working kids trying to make their sports dreams come true in our favorite jersey. I’ll pay to see that!
…Or we may just watch a kid taking some bad advice, hold out and demonstrate the worst that sports greed has to offer. I’m really hoping for the former.
i dont like how DD and his agent are handeling this situation. c’mon DD sign your fat contract and stop being a drama queen.
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:16 am
@jofa6000, Come on! Drama queen?? As far as I’ve heard, Drew hasn’t made any kind of public statements regarding his contract, let alone trashing the team or doing any thing that could be construed as “drama.” Feel free to correct me with a single example.
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DLB Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:17 am
@Brownkingsfan, There aren’t any quotes from Doughty, but I do see a bit of drama happening among us Kings fans, haha.
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The longer that this mess drags on the worse It’s going to be for Doughty. My assessment is that the fans are not on his side, looks a lot like greed at this point in his career.
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5holer Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
@crown74, Not to worry, it is all a part of “the plan”. Fans will forget they are mad at him the minute he signs on the dotted line. The anger management class for this post is sold out! DD is this and DD is that…what the blank does he care in August what fans think of his agency, his negotiation tactics, or even him as a player? It is very, very normal negotiation tactics to wait out the other guy and play it close to the vest…been happening for decades with CBAs in all pro sports! We can thank all the blankety blank Lawyers for sticking their blanks into the thickets of pro sports business. If he signed today, so what! He is not playing a game until September at the earliest! They are probably praying for an offer sheet in Newport Sports Offices in Toronto(GTA). One Not likely coming and Fehr will have them all stirred up on the collusion angle perhaps?..Could be a ploy to force out an offer sheet and/or an attempt to prove collusion between teams? DD has no rights under this CBA period. He is a piece of property in reality and owned by LAKs. He can shoot himself in the blank and sit out some time or he can take some sound advice and live to fight another day with his rights intact. No one should turn down the deal that was offered to him by LAKs. That is lunacy, but yet the games will be played by Meehan and company…par for the course and so what will it get DD?…not a dam thing good, but perhaps alot of grief from many sources in this league! BTW FYI, I was at the first Kings home game in 1967 and I do not remember John(first Kings fan?) either! I was a teenager myself in 67! Just for the record! Saw O’Ree, Howie Young and the LA Blades too in the early 60s also! Gotta get back on my walker, sorry!
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Rich….from now on we need guest bloggers!!!!! Welcome back…
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kingsxstevenxkings Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@neil,
Agreed.. the silence almost caused a riot in SoCal..too many antsy King’s fans sitting around hitting refresh.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
@kingsxstevenxkings, I nominate Poorman!
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loskingpride Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
@Token, You want half the bloggers here to become masochists don’t you?
Darrell Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:33 am
@Token, He already had a show for disfunctional manic-depressives!
Gokings15 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
@kingsxstevenxkings,
Good to know i am not the only one!
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Buster Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:47 am
@kingsxstevenxkings,
You mean there were people from Vancouver trying to keep up with this blog?
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tornado12 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:26 pm
@neil, what happened to Jill?
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My suggestion is the longer Doughty holds out the less term of a contract DL gives him. If Doughty waits until right before the season to sign, DL only offers a 1 year deal and a commitment to re-negotiate after the year. If Doughty misses any portion of training camp it will have a negative impact on his play and he will lose money because of it.
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Sounds like this is sure to drag on for awhile longer. None of us know the numbers, Doughty has an agent who is guiding him, etc, etc…. but I am not getting warm and fuzzy feelings about No. 8 through all of this. He has every right and reason to get what he can while the gettin’ is good, but when I think back on some of his very poor plays and decisionmaking last year, I am having a bit of a hard time stomaching all this. Hope I am wrong.
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Seems obvious, but Meehan comes off bad. No response? What is that?
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
@Player-X, Boras-esque.
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:27 am
@Player-X, I remember reading that Lombardi said “the devil is in the details” regarding Doughty’s contract. I’m sure most of you have seen what a mortgage contract looks like. Hundreds of pages covering the details of a few hundred thousand dollars. I can’t imagine how many pages are involved in a multi-million dollar contract involving not just the term and dollars, but NTC/NMC, arbitrations, injuries, etc. It takes time to read through all these details, digest them, and make changes where necessary. Then it gets countered by the team using the same process. It’s back and forth and it all takes time.
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Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 7:49 am
@Brownkingsfan, From what many have said, the contract is a simple form with blanks to be filled in. This is not a corporate merger, nor even a residential lease, it is a one-page form.
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Move #53 to #8′s position, then move #6 to replace #53′s. Save $$$ for next year. We have unlimited good young Ds are waiting… I only want DD8 for less than $5-5.5mil a year.
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LBlocal Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
If you put #6 with #2 on the 3d. You have the same type of players +/-. Wouldn’t #37 or #76 be a better ‘blend’ option? gKg!
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
@LBlocal, Voynov a right hand shot. Just sayin’
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Personally, i’m tired of this situation. Dean needs to set a deadline.If nothing by then, start calling other GM’s, and if nothing else, it will send the message. We’ll see how much he wants to stay here. who knows, DL just might get an offer he could not refuse. The cup will not be won with or without him alone. We have a helluva team as it stands now.
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
@wideleft, I’m sure DL has one. It’s the start of training camp. That’s the next date that means something. His previous deadline was July 1st. It makes absolutly no difference if he signs right now, or 2 weeks from now. Although it would allow all of us to sleep a little better!
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FINALLY! Welcome back, Rich! I know it’s business and his career, but I think DD is getting some bad advice. Terrible PR move holding out after what arguably a sub-par season with respect to expectations. Unfortunately for DD he is not Shea Weber yet. He could be, but he’s not. If he’s holding out for the rarefied salary air, that’s a mistake. Sign for a good chunk of money, win a cup, and prove without a shadow of a doubt you are worth the money. THEN go for the big money.
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finally richard u come back ahaha sweet
dd sign with the kings please i spent money on ur jersey i dont want to waste money to get another jersey ill rather pay to watch u play..
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DL’s offer is vastly higher than what this doughty fan would’ve offered based on the very poor 2010-11 season.
Dude is an RFA, and he’s asking for UFA money for proven players. Only thing doughty is proving is that he’s inconsistent, not a team player, and ego-maniacal with this highest-paid king stuff.
If true, the passive-aggressive not countering stuff is unprofessional.
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Mike McGriff Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:37 am
@5buckcolonnade, Agreed, not true negotiating.
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It’s time to start looking at Plan B Dean. If Doughty detracts from the goal of building a “core” set of players maybe we look at trading him to Jersey for Parise or Washington for Semin or maybe even Pittsburg for Malkin. Yes I think Drew has a BIG future but look at the Devils. Kovy will kill that team with his cap hit, do we really NEED Doughty to win the Cup? IMO I don’t think so. Especially if our defense is as loaded as is being reported. What the Kings are building is turning out to be very special, we should be contending for Lord Stanley for many, many years to come BUT not at the expense of not being able to make deadline deals like the Wings did for over a decade. I believe what Dean is doing and what we can accomplish but sacrifices need to be made to insure that we aren’t a “One Hit Wonder” I welcome your comments!!
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Mike McGriff Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:42 am
@Play2Win, Yeah, and I don’t consider taking a 6.5 mil per year offer a sacrifice looking at the NHL FREE MARKET.
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:31 am
@Play2Win, Right. Trade the best D man on our team and replace him with a forward. Brilliant idea!
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Play2Win Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
@Brownkingsfan, Just in case you forgot, the BEST D Man we have IS NOT Doughty. It’s Scuderi or Mitchell. The best offensive DMan we have COULD be DD but if we had to we could survive with Johnson and Martinez. Plus we have Voynev, Hickey, Muzzin etc banging down the door. Do I think DD will be great SOMEDAY yes I do but we could still win the Cup without him. Think about this just for a second, would you trade Doughty for Parise, Semin or Malkin? At 7+ mil a year salary cap hit I would because I could pick up another QUALITY D man for about half that and still add those snipers!! If Doughty really wants a championship in LA have him sign a 15 year 83 mil contract with a cap hit of around 5.5 mil and the Kings could still add a Top 6 winger. Plus if DD did get 7+ mil a year he would be TWICE the price as our next highest paid defenseman, is DD REALLY twice as good as Scuds or Willie? NOT A CHANCE IN HELL!!!
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Let’s assume Doughty dosen’t sign. Are we not now a better team than last season? Couldn’t Voynov or Hickey step in and do at least what Doughty did last season? I want Doughty to sign, but if he doesn’t, is it really that bad?
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
@emb3, No they couldn’t. Alec Martinez beat both of them out last year and he didn’t play near what DD did.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
@CB14, Actyally, Voynov was injured so he beat himself out.
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
@Token, True, but he only missed the first 4 games of the Manchester season, and Martinez was called up 20 games in. Mabye the fact that Voynov missed training camp hurt him the most because he did play 14 games before Martinez got called up. Looking at the stats, Martinez tore it up in his 20 games in Manchester. 5 goals, 11 assists, 16 points in only 20 games. So it’s understandable why he got the call. I like Voynov a lot. I would prefer to trade Martinez and call up Voynov. Or Muzzin. Or Hickey. Which ever one’s better. Gosh it’s nice to have DL as GM.
wideleft Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
@emb3, with the new additions…yes, we are a better team right now w/o him. keep in mind his trade stock.A quality player, or two,can add even more depth to this team. What do we really know about DD? Was 2 years ago the true player you’ll see for years to come? or was last year?no one really knows.yes, he is talented, but i dont want to see the organization put all their eggs in one basket with one player.Some have him walking on water. just don’t see it…yet.i prefer for him to be around for years to come, however, enough is enough.I’m confident the organization has made him an offer that sets him up for life. Ball is in his court, and i don’t think he’s holding all the cards either. remember, it’s not like he can walk w/o any compensation.
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What about discussing life possibly without DD? Who will take his place and how will the line-up look like on D?
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:35 am
@Howie in China, IF it doesn’t get done, I see DL going after Weber.
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Call me crazy but if DD really wants upwards of 7 per year I’d be fine with moving him if we could land another top level forward. I mean I look back on last year and all the one goal games we lost and I ask myself this, with MR and SG and healthy kopi and Williams, we will 100% for sure score more goals. With DD being an offensive d man who didn’t exactly wow us with his defense most of last year we wouldn’t be that hurt defensively if we lost him. So if we replaced his “still developing” D skills with proven goal scoring skills I feel it would translate to many more wins.
Not exactly a scientific evaluation but I think it is sound.
Questions, comments, concerns?,
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
@Cortex949, That’s not a bad idea. My only concern with it is, who would take his spot as a top 4 d-man? There’s no doubt that we have guys ready to step up to the NHL level, but I don’t think any of them are capable of filling a top 4 role on a Championship caliper team next year. I also don’t think MG or AM are top 4 material. If you’ve got a trade proposal that works, i’d love to see it.
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Cortex949 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
@CB14, Yea I don’t really have a trade in mind but I really feel that his defense isn’t too far ahead of JJ or someone else of his caliber. He get attention cuz of his flare and offensive skills. I mean if we are up by one goal with 1 min left and the other team pulls it’s goalie I would much rather have scuds and micthell out there. If we are down a goal and we pull quick with 1 min left I put JJ and DD out there. Just food for thought
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@Cortex949, I agree that he would be the 4th d-man I would want out there in that scenario, Greene would be my third choice, but with that being said he is much better defensively than JJ is IMO. I also agree with your post further down that I don’t want to trade DD, but I also don’t want to give out a potential cap killing contract to a 21 year old with 1 great year on his resume.
jonjon Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
@Cortex949, Hmm, I dont feel his D skills are “still developing”, not if he’s the best defensemen on Canada’s gold medal olympic team while being the youngest as well. He wowed me plenty of times, he’s also our best defensemen in front of the net, and that’s where Quick needs the most help. He just needs to grow up. Pro hockey player or not you cant force a person to grow up, it has to take its natural course. Once that happens you will see a big improvement on his game and decision making. It’s the coaches job to get him to that level. To have that potential clearly in front of you and pass on it before he even gets to his prime years would get a GM fired. Most defensemen dont even make it until they’re 24 or 25 so i wouldnt trade DD before he hits that age.
Also it would be very very hard to land a top level forward and have him happy on this team. Even though we are a big cup contender we have almost too much skill to land another solid forward, top skill guys want to play in the top positions no matter what team they’re on and guys like that arent going to be happy on the third line, it creates problems between them and the coach. Nikolai Zherdev was misused terribly on the Flyers and he actually asked them to waive him. There’s really no trade involving Doughty where you get that value back.
Like you said we’re 100% going to score more goals so no sense in bringing in more scorers. The kings are 25 in the league in goals scored, but are 6 in the league in defense, which means the kings make guys play to their liking, all they have to do is score more.
With Weber getting 7.5 I dont see Doughty getting more than 7 a year for 5 years. 5 year deal he wouldnt be giving up UFA years so he couldnt ask for that much. Maybe a 9 year contract thats back loaded maybe he’ll make more than 7 but thats the only way.
Also think about this, we’re definitely going to score more so DD could focus on defense more and we’d be an even greater team. Wait till he’s 25 to think about a trade, even with his mistakes at the offensive blue line his potential out weighs his risk.
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King Alex Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
@jonjon, That post was right on the money & I agree completely.
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Cortex949 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
@jonjon, I see what u are saying and by no means do I WANT to trade him but if we are forced to pick between paying him 7+ million for 5 years or trading I’m not too eager to write that check
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jonjon Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@Cortex949, I have to agree with that, I just remembered that Mitchell, Stoll and Penner come off the books next season. If they all play well this season, which I think they will, they will be due for a little more cash. This complicates things haha
Mike McGriff Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:48 am
@Cortex949, And don’t forget Dustin Penner who seems to want to play now.
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This will be a great opportunity for one of our young guys to get a chance.
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Its stuff like this that me not get a player jersey. Only ones I have are Brown USA jersey from the Olympics and a Luc jersey, I don’t Luc is going to make come back on another team.
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
@Kevin hoard, You must not have Luc’s Red Wings jersey then, or his Rangers jersey, or his Penguins jersey. Heck even Gretzky played on 4 teams. Players who play their entire career with 1 team are vew and far between now days. For every Stevie Y and Mario’s there’s 10 Jagr’s and Hull’s.
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LittleRhody Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 2:08 am
@CB14, Can’t forget Dave Taylor – 18 yrs an LA King, if I’m not mistaken.
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Goring 19 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
@Kevin hoard, I’ve still got my #19 Goring jersey from the 70s and I plan to wear it at our Lord Stanley Cup parade. Us Kings fans are all eternal optimists guys.
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KingsFan19 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:16 am
@Goring 19, Count me in on that one too. It is the one time I’d wear my Autographed #19 Goring Jersey, for sure!!! GKG!
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Love it how lots of folks are nonchalantly cavalier with other people’s millions.
What’s a few million bucks amongst friends!
Here is a hard cold fact: Kings will hold Doughty’s contract rights untill he becomes eligible for UFA status or untill the Kings trade him.
Cut the kid some slack. He’ll sign sooner or later and all will be good.
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tornado12 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
@Token, seriously, there isnt a problem until there is an official HOLD OUT and he isnt at camp. if that happens then look at other options. But Ill admit it is very hard to look at this reality when you dont keep your emotions in check.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
@tornado12, we need to drink some beers way ahead of the Sharks game at HP.
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tornado12 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:58 am
@Token, LOL Are you insinuating that shark fans are unruly?
Token Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
@Token, No, I just dont want to wait months for the game before we have a beer.
Mike McGriff Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:55 am
@Token, Yeah, but what’s the hold out all about. You ever think that maybe the Kings don’t want DD to be the highest paid player on the team not because of economics but because of status. He is not the best player.
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Simmer down now. Keep things in perspective.
DD isn’t getting traded anywhere. What is with this organization where even the fans boil over and suggest poor business decisions after a few months of negotiating (at best) in the off season? Personally I view all of the time and energy spent on this process by both sides, as a positive one.
DL is doing what is best for the teams cap long term and DD and his agent are doing what is in their best interest, negotiate a contract that serves and supports a stable position for some time to come. Both of those things are good for this team.
If DD becomes the player we all hope (and drafted) him to be. I’d rather have all of the details worked out, with both sides content and recognizing value.
Freaking out and putting all this pressure on yourselves, DL and DD is the exact opposite culture we want here in LA. It was thinking like that that got us to make decisions like “1983-the Los Angeles Kings. Trade Kevin Stevens to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Anders Hakansson. “
If he’s not signed by the time we go to Las Vegas to play “Frozen Fury” start to get concerned, until then take a pill and stop acting like we are in Toronto or something.
DL is building a winning team, which takes extra care when dealing with contracts of “franchise players”. Reading some of these posts it’s like some of you would have given Kovalchuk the farm (and all the animals in the barn)!
LA has had only 10 1st – 5th draft picks overall, Drew is a 2nd overall pick … he’s part of LA’s plans going forward.
Come down of the ledges and let them do the “ugly” business side of things.
GO KINGS GO!
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
@kevinebel, This is what FANS, the word is short for Fanatics, DO. It’s how we got our name. We over-react to things. We scream and cry when we win, and when we lose. We use the term “we” and “our” when describing our team. We spend hours on end on a website solely devoted to our favorite team. We freak out when the guy we rely on for our teams information goes on vacation for a week when he told us he would be in and out the next few days. (Welcome back Rich) We spend hundreads, some of us thousands, of dollars on tickets and merchandise of our team. We pay all this money because we love our team. We hope and pray for them to win. We live and breathe by the outcome of a GAME. When we lose, we riot in the streets, well some of us (Casucks). When we win, we riot in the streets, well some of us (Lakers).
We also don’t believe for 1 second that the people in charge of the organization read our opinions or listen to our suggestions. (Sorry to break that to some of you) So it’s ok if we lose our cool and call him a lazy overweight prima-donna, or suggest we trade him for anything we could get, or say that he deserves no more than 4 million a year because of a few defensive miscues. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what we believe, so don’t worry too much about some of the irrational thoughts.
Sorry about the word “pray” in there. Not meant to offend any one.
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jonjon Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
@kevinebel, If he’s not signed by the time we start pre-season I will be concerned. Also I think kings fans on here are passionate and that’s exactly the culture we want. I’m stoked on this team! I don’t want to see any one go, this is a great team. Drew CAN screw that up this year. He’s the future of course, but the “ugly” business side can break up this team’s future before it should be. So IMO yeah fans are concerned, because they’re passionate. So respectfully; simmer down, take a pill, act like your in SoCal, and let fans be fans =]
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kevinebel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 6:15 am
@jonjon, Passionate is fine, maniacal is another thing. DD and his agent aren’t “screwing things up this year” by negotiating terms they can sign in good faith.
I’d rather both sides take more time and get it right, then “just sign already” and someone be unhappy with the outcome in a few years time.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:15 am
@kevinebel, Bugs me that they’re spending a lot of time NOT talking.
jonjon Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:54 am
@kevinebel, I’m not saying they are, but they definitely have the power to. Lombardi said they never responded to his offer. I’m not saying get him signed now. I’m sayin he better be signed by pre-season, which is plenty of time to work things out. I’m a Doughty supporter and if he holdsout it would really grind my gears.
kevinebel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, normally those who talk less in negotiations are viewed as those with the most powerful position. It would seem contrary but not so … it’s the gentleman’s way of saying “I’ve made clear my position, what more is there to talk about?”
Meehan can posture that position all he wants but in reality DD is a RFA so he’s Kings property regardless. This will get done, it’s just both sides doing “their jobs” to get the most value they can from the situation.
Guess it’s just hard on all of us fans (I’ve been a fan since ’83) being so pumped with this building process so close to fruition! Drew will get signed, DL will do what he can to get Drew signed for a cap friendly number … and the LA KINGS will PWN this year!
GO KINGS GO!
Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:39 am
@kevinebel, Well said! Although I hope it happens by training camp.
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King Cobra Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:39 am
@kevinebel, ” time and energy spent on this process by both sides, as a positive one” not sure what you are talking about??? All I ever hear is the two sides have not talked in weeks…..
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kevinebel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:50 am
@King Cobra, So if they haven’t talked in weeks (DL & Meehan, it’s clear DD has been talking to the coaching staff) then that lets you know just how worried both sides are with this whole thing. It’ll get done, hopefully a long term contract with a fair cap hit for LA and fair payout to DD.
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you guys are losing it if you think voynov is a worthy replacement for doughty. losing doughty hurts the team, period. give drew his money, by the time the contract is up it may be a good value
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Jonesy Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
@Tony Granato,
I am glad a veteran of your experience weighed in on this Tony, if I may call you this? How is your sister doing, BTW?
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Hey, Rick…was wondering…how is Anze Kopitar these days? Any news on the extent of rehab- is it still up in the air?? I remember what happened to Charlie Simmer and he was never the same…I fear the same in Kopitar’s case, althogh the treatments have evolved almost twenty years.
If the Kings should let Doughty bolt- or let some other team offer him a large sheet- where will the Kings and Lombardi draw the line?
Thanks, danny
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LBlocal Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
@Danny Ingamells, Respectfully, who’s Rick? Oh, yeah… You’re new here, right..
gKg!
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
@LBlocal, Rick Hampton was the 3rd overall draft pick in the 1974 NHL draft. He was a defenseman who played for the California Golden Seals, Cleveland Barons, and LA Kings. He last played professional hockey in 1984 for the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League.
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I’m not exactly clear on how the RFA and UFA thing actually works, but would it make sense that the sticking point is the length of the contract? Dean has said that he wants to lock Doughty down to a long term deal, but with UFA right around the corner for DD, wouldn’t it make sense that he wants a short term deal now in order to renegotiate a larger deal when he becomes unrestricted? Again, I could totally be off base here, but it makes sense in my little head.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:38 pm
@Nick, That more or less sumarizes the current speculation.
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Mike McGriff Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:07 am
@Nick, And so he has another good year. What is he going to ask for 8 mil? Medium term at best, say 4 years. That will sort out who DD is.
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kevinebel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 6:30 am
@Nick, my understanding is the issue is not RFA or UFA but a NMC/NTC.
Doughty can’t get a no-movement/no-trade clause until he “qualifies for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency,” per the current CBA. Doughty wouldn’t be eligable to be UFA for four more seasons, so the debate over the NMC/NTC is for later in the term.
Be glad, both sides (reportedly) want to go longer than five years, given that’s how long Stamkos went with the Lightning. Which shows the difference between Doughty’s willingness to commit long term to LA versus Stamkos willingness to play the “Show me the money!” game in 5 years.
Completely subjecture by my part here but, I’d guess DD wants to see NMC/NTC into a 9-10 year contract @ 2015/2016 and DL would consider adding the NMC/NTC but then would want to remove some of the exposure of risk to the teams capital (i.e. want the $$$ the other side is asking for to come down).
All of these things are good. Both sides see value, both sides are willing to commit past the 2015/2016, Group 3 time table … this will get done.
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Well DD, here’s a word of advice. Your agent gave Nabokov some advice and sign him to a really bog contract that me could never live up to. You are very good at what you do but just remember, making good money over a long period of time os more profitable than a large amount over a short time. We love you in LA, we want you in LA, and we don’t want you tothe wind up a over-paid has been who no one wants aka Nabokov. Welcome back Rich, now I can stop looking for you and go back to enjoying my vacation.
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I have been an avid reader of this site for the last year, and a fan since 1988, and I finally decided it was time to post. There are some very knowledgeable hockey minds on this site and I dont feel I know the game as well as many of you. However, I am a lifelong soccer player (having been born in Argentina it is kind of in your blood) and I see a lot similarities between the sports. Having said this, I feel the Kings need to do sign Doughty, even if it means taking a cap hit of 7-7.5 mil/year. I realize he is only 21 but wasn’t Kopitar the same age when the Kings gave him his long term deal for a record amount? The team is so close to becoming dominant if we can keep this core together there could be many seasons that will go into May and hopefully June. Anyway, just my thought on this issue.
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I know he’s a stud at a young age. But I’d make a move and trade him at this point. If a reasonable contract can’t be done, let’s move him and move on.
In no way shape or form, but in our firm we have a motto: Better a hole than an a__hole. In no way am I calling Mr. Doughty an name of any kind. I’m simply saying that it’s better to have a hole of any size than a distraction. Holes can be filled. Distractions cause issues much bigger than any hole.
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CB14 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
@Bama Kings, Any trade proposals? Who’s gonna replace him in our top 4 d-men? I’m open to a potential trade, but it needs to fit for us and the team that gets Drew.
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Jonesy Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
@Bama Kings,
Replacing letters with symbols does not turn expletives into non-expletives.
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
@Bama Kings, I think that sounds like a lovely idea, Respectfully Yours Larry Murphy, Hall of Famer.
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LicoriceBiscuit Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@puck73, + Paul Coffey
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Belexes Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:36 am
@Bama Kings,
I agree with this forward looking idea 100%, because it’s been proven many times that trading promising young players, or high draft picks is always a smart move.
Sincerely,
Ray Borque
5 time Norris winner, 13 time all star, highest scoring defenseman of all time, Hall of Famer.
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Doughty as this year’s Kovalchuck? I doubt it. He, first off, already belongs to the Kings. He isn’t “greedy” or “lazy”. It is perfectly natural for a contract with a RFA to take this long. It’ll get done, and based on how good DL has been at getting things done lately, I imagine we’ll all be surprised how nice the cap hit is.
And since when did we all become cap experts?
Who cares?
As long as the Kings field a winning team, I don’t care if they over pay every single member of the team.
Did anyone complain before the cap when DET spent what they did and of course won all the time? I bet their fans were happy either way.
Now, of course, NYR fans should be upset, but not because of the cap hits, but because their team is terrible and always lacks any chemistry whatsoever.
Doughty, please sign so we can have absolutely nothing to talk about for a month.
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Do any of us really know what’s going on behind Staples closed doors? Nah, that’s what I thought. We get the little scraps of info that is thrown to us (thanks Rich) but none of us are flies on the wall in the office. All we can do is observe the posturing and try to make sense out of what info we have without making any unwarrented judgmental decisions on either party. What you have to do is ask yourself if you were in Doughty’s skates or Deano’s office, what would you be doing? And you know what, I bet we’ll all get a different answer. So for now, it’s the waiting game for the likes of us. GKG
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Gary Livingston Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
@Goring 19,
Common sense. You have it, sir.
=)
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
@Goring 19, Yeah, we actually do know. It’s all written down in the CBA.
Salary per Year, Signing Bonus, Number of Years, Movement Clause, Deferred Salary Payments. They are negotiating at most 5 items, at best 2 items. That’s it. Nothing else is allowed in the standard NHL contract for his FA group. One page document.
This is just how Meehan does business.
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Osaka Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:27 am
@Token, This isn’t the first contact ever signed in the NHL, of course we know what is going on. I can’t speak for anyone else but I have been watching these contract negotiations more years than I care to remember.
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Osaka Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:13 am
@Goring 19, If I were Drew I wouldn’t sign any deal until the day before camp.
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MAN OMAN I JUS WISH IT WERE OCTOBER
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kevinebel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@c4sraser, TRUE STORY!
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I say the first option is to lock him up for the long term but the second option is a short term deal where we can see what the kid is really made of… I see pros and cons either way.
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Dominick Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
@Mike336999, I would like that first option because I wouldn’t want to do this again when the market could be higher 5 years from now. I’d rather have a set price we could manage over a long time, then a bigger bill 1/2 way through.
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Thanks for coming back,
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I see a lot of greedy Kingsfans who don’t really care about anything but themselves, and are talking themselves into being DD haters without looking at this whole thing from both sides. Just a bunch of emotional garbage, like kids throwing a tantrum when their not getting their way, and they’re willing to throw our best defnseman under the bus for it.
Sounds like the same Jackweeds that labeled Jack Johnson greedy, and self centered without knowing all the facts, and turned out to be absolutely wrong about him. Yea they argued a good case at the time, but they were still wrong.
There’s 2 sides to this coin, and DD side isn’t the only one holding things up. DL is just as shrewd, and is doing what he can to pay as little as possible. If DL can underpay DD he will, and if Meehan can get a little more out of DL he will, that’s just the way business is done. That doesn’t all of a sudden make DD a crappy player, or mean that DD’s greedy.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:26 pm
@Dominick, Take it easy Dom, I was enjoying all the eulogies!
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jess Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:43 am
@Dominick, “haters” –one of the many modern terms which shuts down civil discourse.
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Randy S Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:57 am
@Dominick,
Agreed….Just so long as you don’t feel the same way about the Blake situation years back. Blake sucked.
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Otto Ped Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
@Randy S, BLAKE SUCKED??? You’re kidding right?
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TheKingdom83 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 4:59 am
@Dominick, Well said Dom. People forget that this is a business, first and foremost.
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number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:11 am
@Dominick,
Hi Dom. I always love reading your comments. They are well thought out and well balanced. That said, it’s only my opinion, but while there is validity in every word you wrote, there is no way anyone can say that this looks particularly pretty.
BUT, perhaps on second thought there is something in what you say. We just don’t know. Maybe DL is trying to lowball him. BUT (again in caps) given DL’s past history in SJ which I’d like to thing he learned something from and also the reality of sane cap management in this period of time, I’d be very surprised if the offers DL is putting on the table would be offers that one would consider insulting.
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number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:13 am
@number 6,
And I just now read Token’s comments below after doing my above post…. so I’m clearly not the only one who sees it this way.
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DLB Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:24 am
@number 6, there’s no way people can say this is definitely heading toward disaster, and you still see people making that argument. It looks like both the agent and GM are in no particular hurry, and are angling for the best deal they can.
Everyone needs to remember the Bobby Ryan situation last summer, and take some deep breaths. No one can be labeled as a holdout until training camp starts, so attacking him for that now is simply wrong. And for gosh sakes, moral condemnation based on what some people fear may happen is really putting the cart before the horse.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@number 6, Sorry about yesturday! I was thinking about it and i realized that “Dude, give it up” is what my older brothers used to say to me anytime i wanted something as a kid, and also anytime we would get into a fight. I am the youngest of 4 and my brothers are all very large human beings(all of them are 6’5 and bigger) and i never ever had a chance against them in any situation. I am not exactly the smallest guy (6’2) but growing up they always had the upper hand. Obviously not your fault but you hit a heart string from my past and it upset me a little. Sorry again brotha!
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Stuart Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 11:43 am
@BrokeKingsFan, Hey Broke, it takes the biggest man to realize a mistake/overreaction and say he’s sorry.
+100 in my respect book.
Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:46 am
@Dominick, I agree with you! Great post! Chill people!
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Goring 19 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:25 am
@Dominick, I agree Dom, I’m not at the scene investigating, so I can’t really say for sure who’s doing what. But I’m not gonna put DD down for trying to get the best deal he can, and I’m not going to put Deano down for being shrewd because that’s part of his job. I’m sure this will all pan out in the next few weeks and Drew will be in training camp.
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FiG17 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@Dominick,
A lot of it’s impatience. I admit to not being Doughty’s biggest fan, but it started way before the contract stuff. Watching some of his interviews and the way he conducts himself on the ice gave me the impression that his ego had inflated a little after his first season. I’ve never met the guy, and I don’t know him beyond what I see, so I could be far off base, but it’s just the opinion I’ve formed. This whole contract issue isn’t doing anything to make me feel better.
I agree that I don’t know exactly what both sides are doing/saying, but DL has been way more vocal about his position, while Doughty’s been silent. Not saying that’s a bad thing, just that people will be more inclined to draw their own conclusions about what’s going on in his mind than in DL’s. I guess we’re just a little too impatient to sit down and actually think rationally about what we’re assuming and that is a bit childish. But that’s why this is good, and that’s why I love this forum, because there’s always somebody to slap us in the face and tell us we’re being silly.
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Dominick Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Thanks guys for the comments. I guess the moral to the story I wanted to ultimately get at was “let’s not judge a book by it’s cover”. For every “DD’s greedy” comment, you could say “DL’s a cheap SOB!”.
DL has been a little vocal, but far less than he has been in the past after making offers (DL’s every move was commented on by DL during Kovigate). DD doesn’t have any reason to speak to the media, because he isn’t the one doing the negotiating. Neither are getting tuff in the media, or putting a take it or leave it scenario out for everyone to see. If DL gets it under 7 I’ll be happy, but if DD gets over 7, more power too him. Just don’t leave it where we have to do this again in a few years.
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qBIRD Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Dominick,
I’m seeing the same thing. People need to relax around here.
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Osaka Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:30 am
@Dominick, I agree their is no need for personal attacks or calling Drew Greedy (or Dean cheap). It is way to soon to come to conclusions and we still have a lot of time to get things done. Contracts don’t get signed in Aug (for the most part). However, we are hockey fans so it is our job to play “what if?”. That is what the blog is for. I am against calling Drew greedy but nothing wrong with people saying he is worth “A” or he is worth “B”. If someone doesn’t view his value as high as you do it doesn’t make them a hater. If someone would trade Drew instead of pay him “A” amount they are not haters. That term marginalises and aims to discredit anyone who disagrees. I am a Kings fan so I want what is best for the team, not necessarily what is best for Drew. You say if he gets more than 7 “more power too him”, I think that could hurt the team more than help. Like I said before I see him signing for just over 7 and I am OK with that, made my peace with it. Some people wouldn’t give him 6 though and that is OK, we can all have our own opinions.
Now for all the Penner and TM haters…… Hahaha kidding kidding.
TM will win the Adams trophy this year! Go Kings Go!
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Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 1:13 am
@Osaka, There have been those in the past who have said things like “DD’s not worth 4mill and if he asks for more, trade his greedy butt to someone who wants to overpay”. That person has every right to state his opinion, and I have every right to point out that he has no idea what he’s talking about. Freedom goes both ways. We’ll see who’s right in the end.
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Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 1:19 am
@Osaka, Also I hope your right about TM. Would love to see DL end up tops as a GM also. Penner for a Rocket Richard.
Could happen.
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IMHO sit and wait DD out. The King’s gave DD an offer. It is now DD’s turn to counter. It would be foolish for DL to start a bidding war against himself by offering even more money without a counter offer.
DD and his agent have it easy atm because they don’t have to answer to the press. Once DD hits the ice he’ll be subject to the press and that won’t be fun.
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Token Reply:
August 10th, 2011 at 11:49 pm
@KC23, DL strikes me as a guy that learns from his mistakes. He’s been in a holdout situation before with a couple players and he caved on Nabokov. It sucked, Sharks stank that year and DL got fired.
I’m venturing a guess he would be rather hesitant to repeat that kind of a decision. I know I would.
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CB14 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:05 am
@Token, Given that he has been in a situation where a holdout didn’t help anyone, I wonder if he’ll entertain the prospect of trading DD. With the Nabokov situation he held strong to his contract offer, the team came out flat out of the gate, DL caved in (or was told to cave in from mgmt), Nabokov played poorly because he wasn’t ready to play, the team still struggled, and DL was fired. Given DD’s conditioning levels being average at best, it’s not impossible to think the same thing could happen here, including DL being fired by AEG if things play out the same way they played out in SJ. I think if training camp rolls around and there’s been no progress on a contract, Dean will seriously consider trade offers for Drew.
Oh, and one other thing. Now Dean has to deal with the salary cap implications of giving Drew more than what he wants to, something he didn’t have to worry about in the Nabokov situation. You can always try and convince your owner to give you more payroll, but you can’t convince the NHL to give you more salary cap space. (For future seasons of course, our cap situation is fine this year.)
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Token Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
@CB14, All good points but also remember that Nabokov was 28 and a star after two lights-out seasons with the Sharks. Also, wasn’t UFA age 31 back then.
Nabokov also has a talent for inventing creative ways to make bad decisions.
DL didn’t have options when dealing with his star goalie holding out. He has many options this time around and the CBA gives him all the leverage.
But other than entertaining conversation on this board, we are nowhere close to any holdout.
Osaka Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:10 am
@Token, So if they just couldn’t come to turns do you think Dean would move DD?
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jess Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:39 am
@Osaka, *terms
Token Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:06 am
@Osaka, No, I’m suggesting that Dean already has experience with a situation like this hypothetical holdout. He had two options back in 02. He exercised one of them and is aware of the effects of that choice.
Remember that Doughty is 4 years away from UFA if he plays, six years away should he play on another continent. Dean has no reason to even think about moving him and he knows full well how the Kings play when DD is not on the roster.
If this were to go to the hypothetical holdout, my money is on Dean being unyielding come Sept 15th.
Dominick Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
@Token,
With regards to DL and San Jose, DL had more than one hold out that year, and those were contracts that DL had positioned to collide that summer, and it burned him.
This situation is different because DL’s cleared all potential hurdles so that he can have the money free, and the time to concentrate on one player. Even more impressive was the fact that he even found a way to upgrade our forwards, and not lose any ground in what he has free to negotiate with DD.
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DL will not budge to what he believes in this doughty situation. If doughty camp doesnt get that then their will be a holdout but i think they will come to their senses before camp starts
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I would go on and trade DD8 for Parise ASAP, if we can get him to sign long term contract with the Kings for affordable price. I believe DL is capable to get it done! This stndstill situation at this time is not good at all!
Just imagine:
Parise – Kopitar – Williams
Gagne – Richards – Brown
Clifford – Stoll – Richardson
Penner – Lewis – Westgarth
Rich, any news about Anze and his rehabilitation?
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CB14 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:08 am
@outsider, Who’s our other top 4 d-man to go along with Scuds, Willie, and JJ? New Jersey doesn’t even have 1 to trade us along with Parise. Plus the value of Parise over Penner isn’t big enough to compensate the difference between DD and whomever replaces him.
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Osaka Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:30 am
@outsider, If we can’t sign DD why do you think we can sign Parise? NJ couldn’t sign him for more than a year.
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outsider Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:53 am
@Osaka, I think Parise is not happy at all in NJ… Maybe I’m wrong but I could imagine that he would be prepared to negotiate an affordable deal with DL (up to 6 mio. for at least 6 years contract).
And NJ management would love that trade, because they desperately need a top D player (I think they would be ready to give us something more than only Parise in that kind of the package for Doughty – maybe Larsson…).
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number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:16 am
@outsider,
Outsider, I don’t know 100% for certain that Parise IS happy in NJ as I can’t get in his head. Obviously there is the issue of the new coach and how they play this year, But that said, I live on the east coast, have seen him in interviews many times and to me he was very proud to be a NJ Devil and gave indications that that is where he wants to play.
puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 7:37 am
@outsider, Doughty is not going anywhere, he is an RFA. If you remember last season, Bobby Ryan did the same thing last season and there were all kinds of rumors about what was going to happen and in the end Bobby Ryan signed with the Ducks like he was supposed to. As far as Parise goes, he is a phenomanol 2 way left winger, and is only 26 so he would fit the core. That being said, you dont move Doughty, instead I would move Mr. Minus 20, Jack Johnson and a top prospect. Of course, as you say, that would be contingent if Parise and his agent would sign a long term deal here.
number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:50 am
@puck73
Minus 21 to you mate!
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Michael J. Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:02 am
@outsider,
Although Parise is a great player this proposed “deal” will never happen. DD has the potential to be the best defenseman of this decade. Any GM who likes his job would be crazy to trade that kind of talent. People need to get over Parise becoming a King this year. Its about as likely to happen as one of the single guys here dating Taylor Swift.
What I do find funny is how some people here pencil in Penner as the fourth line left wing, just as you have. Dustin Penner is a top-six forward in the NHL. DL has affirmed this when he suggested that Penner apply himself or find a good beer league softball team. Those who think that Penner should play fourth line minutes might do themselves some good by: A) Researching Penner, his stats, and some video to obtain a clue as to who he is as a hockey player. And B) Look at his salary and cap hit, then figure out how to justify those numbers for a fourth line skater.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:27 am
@Michael J., Penner needs to play like a top-six forward, and that’s what I think Dean was saying.
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:27 am
@Michael J., If you think about it Penner is as likely as anyone to get the most goals on the team. Although Gagne and Williams will almost certainly be in the hunt.
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Alright, i’ve got a trade proposal for DD. Assuming they’re still far apart a week into camp, would you trade DD, Loktionov, and Parse for Claude Giroux, James VanRiemsdyk, and Braydon Coburn? Giroux is a RW/C who led Philly in scoring last year as a 23 year old and has a cap friendly contract that’s for the next 3 years with a 3.750 cap hit. VanRiemsdyk is a 22 year old LW with a cap hit of 1.654 and is a RFA after this year. He scored 21 goals last year in just his second NHL season, and was a former #2 overall pick. Coburn is a 26 year old d-man with a cap hit of 3.26 million this year in his last year of his contract before he becomes a UFA. While his offensive numbers have dipped the last couple of years, he’s still a big defensively efficient d-man who played over 21 minutes a game last year. Philly gets a once in a generation talent in DD, a depth LW, and a top prospect. We get 2 top 6 forwards, and a d-man capable of filling a top 4 role who isn’t locked into a long term deal, giving the Kings flexibility next off-season.
Looking at the deal from both sides, I don’t think either one actually does it. (I know you’re saying to yourself “why the heck did this idiot just waste your time if you don’t even think it could possibly happen.” I don’t know why, i’m just bored and can’t fall asleep.) Philly would be giving up it’s 2 best young forwards, although they would still have Schenn and Voracek in that roll. Plus Giroux is really good, like really really good. The Kings would be getting 2 top 6 forwards when we already have 6.5 of them. Stoll’s not a top 6 guy IMO, but a lot of you think he is. I just would love to be able to roll 3 legitimate scoring lines.
Penner – Kopi – Giroux
Gagne – Richards – Brown
VanRiemsdyk – Stoll – Williams
Clifford – Lewis – Richardson
Mitchell – JJ
Scuderi – Coburn
Martinez – Greene
Quick
Bernier
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Glad you are back rich i hope your vacation went well.I am looking forward to some news,2 threads over 2,500 posts and comments amazing.
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None of us know anything that’s going on. Every fragment of information, the tiniest atom of rumor, makes us all crazy.
On the one hand we’re told that a 21-year old player is insisting that he be the highest paid King. I seem to recall that last summer Kovalchuk reportedly wanted to be the highest paid player in the NHL. And Kovalchuck’s agent was — ? Does anyone detect a certain similarity here? Is it even remotely conceivable that all this nonsense about being “the highest paid” is simply agent-fostered poop for the news media?
For DD to become the highest paid player on the Kings he must be signed to a contract that pays him as much as Chara gets — this is the same Chara who won a Norris trophy and didn’t just make the final three, the same Chara who won a Stanley Cup.
If DD can sign for more than Kopi’s $6.8 million, I say let him. But something tells me the dollars aren’t the problem here. With a new NBC contract there’s bound to be more money available for players anyway, and I expect Donald Fehr to negotiate higher numbers for each team’s cap hit under the next CBA. So fussing over whether DD gets a million more than he “should” only has value under the current league contract. In five or six years the arbitrator’s award to Weber may seem cheap. DL knows this, and you can bet that Meehan does as well.
Something tells me it’s DD’s insistence on OTHER terms that poses the stumbling block(s). Laying out a mess of dough on a guy we HOPE will remain an elite player throughout his tenure with the Kings becomes more reasonable if the Kings get the benefit of his maturity. If the kid keeps demanding no trade and/or movement clauses AND is seeking a short-term contract for big bucks, he will wind up being a hold-out for the simple reason that DL is not fool enough to give him so much.
Dewey’s worth a lot and he’ll be getting a lot. But DL has been burned before and he has the wonderful habit of learning from his mistakes. Like I say, in the long run the money is cheap. But tying DL’s hands or just skimming the dream off one’s developmental years with a team is much more important than an extra half-mil here or there. That’s why, I expect, we’ll have a Mexican standoff for some weeks more.
To those guys who think we should trade Doughty for Parise . . . take your Thorazine, people. In fact, double your normal dose.
[Reply]
tuan jim Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:53 am
@tuan jim,
That should be “skimming the cream”, not the “dream”.
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Welcome back Rich
I hope some of you learn that no matter what a guy says when he’s first drafted, or after signing a contract, it’s always about the money.
This whole silly idea that DD was going to give us a discount because he slept on Kings sheets and had a kings lamp in his room is comical.
I don’t blame DD at all. He wants what he feels he’s worth. I’m sure both he and his agent also realize that they will be the ones setting the market value for players like Schenn, Bogosian, etc and with that comes the responsibility of getting the most $$ you can. That goes with any union, not just hockey players or athletes.
I also don’t blame the Kings for staying within their budget and trying to set the market at a figure they feel is reasonable. there are other players in teh system that will need to be signed at some point and the DD number may very well play into those negotiations.
There has been nothing other than conjecture that this has been anything but cordial negotiations.
Let’s stop jumping to conclusions that because Nabakhov held out that DD will do the same…jsut because they hafe the same agent and GM negotiating the deals.
Negotiations of this magnitude don’t usually get done during “dead” periods. Things get done when the deadline fast approaches. Look at the folls in Washington how they went back and forth over the debt ceiling only to come to some type of compromise at the last second. This is in no way a political statement, but things don’t get done until they absolutely have to.
As far as trading Dd or replacing him with some of our prospects (Voynov)…..let’s get a little serious here…I would think most of you feel this team is ready to compete right now for a Stanley cup…Take away your best all around D’man and replace him with a guy who has played his entire career in the minors and you still think you’ll be a cup contender?
Open your eyes guys…The biggest reason we didn’t advance last year in the playoffs was because we lost our top offensive player. We couldn’t adequately replace him, you think we can adequately replace DD?
We need to relax and let the negotiations play out. If/when DD becomes a holdout we can start worrying at that point. To worry on 8/11..a whole month prior to training camps opening, that DD will be a holdout is silly. There is plenty of time for this deal to be worked out and I think it will be prior to training camp opening.
Of coursr if we follow that advice, what the hell are we going to talk about the rest of the summer? LOL
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:33 am
@nykingfan, Only @poorman would dare respond to a post like this. You know what your problem is dude? You have too much common sense, thats your big downfall! lol
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Sebastian Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@nykingfan, way too much common sense. dont you know “WE” need to trade Doughty for Parise, because Voynov or hickey are ready for the NHL, and we need even more offense. whats wrong with you?
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Goring 19 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:46 am
@nykingfan, too bad you’re not out here on the west coast bub, it’d be fun to go to a game with you. You know what you’re talking about
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Thanks for the update Rich.
Isn’t it amazing how hard of a hit DD’s reputation is taking over this? All the greedy and swelled head comments, losing respect for him, it really is over the top. Those complaining are just a little too impatient and quick to judge. Okay, so I’m feeling impatient too, but give the guy a break, it’s his future AND He hasn’t done anything to hurt the Kings yet. At least wait until the start of training camp before you start freaking. LOL Can you imagine DD not wanting to play for the Kings this year? Nope, me either.
Keep the faith, DL and DD will make it happen.
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:20 am
@KFII, Yeah, but it’ll be fun to watch the DD haters do a 180 after DD is signed. I bet DD will be signed sometime after camp starts and before the season starts.
[Reply]
Thanks for the new thread Rich, it was starting to get a little “Lord of the Flies” in the last one…with DD being Piggy. heck, it’s starting to feel that way in here too…
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Brownkingsfan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:48 am
@Stuart, Hahahahaha! “Lord of the Flies?!” Classic!
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“..So they’ve had constant dialogue, but it’s all been about hockey and getting ready for the season.”
Rich, could you interview players and coaches to share details of each player off season workout routines or how the approach their needs to improve on whatever areas they (player or coaches) think needs improvement?
We only read or hear Dustin Penner is busting his rear end to enter the season in tip top shape, but what exactly is he doing and to improve what area of his game or body?
And yes, of course, I would personally like the report to start with Drew Doughty’s off season routine. There has been enough joking about DD’s doughnut workouts in the off season. Let’s get some news on the good things the players do in the off season. Or are off season nutritional regimens, workouts and overall conditioning NOT part of the ‘getting ready for the season’?
Thank you and welcome back!!
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puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:36 am
@Gustavo, Just the fact that Doughty is taking Stevens and Murray’s phone calls tells us that Doughty is certainly not pissed at the kings, its just business.
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look what i found http://translate.google.si/translate?hl=sl&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rtvslo.si%2Fsport%2Fhokej%2Fiz-garderobe-la-ja-kopitar-lahko-doseze-40-golov-na-sezono%2F252590 , its an interview that the Slovenian reporter did with you, a few months ago, dont know if you have seen it yet
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Bob Bobson Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:23 am
@zdene32, Great article. Thanks for sharing it.
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Stuart Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:25 am
@zdene32, awesome find! I love reading the google traslations. Some gems: “glossy hockey athletes,” “Dustin Pennera,” and “the man really feels nice!!!”
thanks for the link! I wonder what being a “pet journalist” entails??
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Ah ha! Thank you Rich.
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Man, all this crazy talk of trading DD for Parise.There isn`t a GM in the league who would trade DD for Parise and that was before he blew out his knee. But every GM would trade Parise for DD. Even the Oilers wouldn`t make that same mistake again.
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Welcome back Rich!
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Its gonna take TIMEEEEEEEEE, a whole lot of precious time!
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Stuart Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:07 am
@Michael_DD8, Time, Time, Time, is on our side… YES IT IS. (wait, is it?)
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One hundred and eighty-ninth!!
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The funny thing is most of you believe that Doughty is intimately engaged in discussions going on between Don Meehan and Dean Lombardi.
What’s the most likely scenario? In April, Doughty went home to Ontario and received a call from Meehan that went something along the lines of “We’re working on a deal with the Kings, have a nice summer and I’ll call you when we are close to a deal that I feel is worth your value as a top defenseman in the National Hockey League.”
So Drew enjoys his summer, plays some PS3, drinks Diet Coke – do you honestly believe he’s back home fielding phone calls on a daily basis engaging in the type of primadonna behavior that many of you accuse him of? I’m sure he’s been consulted on numerous occasions but (respectfully) most of you have no idea how client/agent relationships are handled. There isn’t a particular onus to get this deal done in the next 3 hours or 3 days because both sides know that this season Drew Doughty will be playing for the Los Angeles Kings.
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Michael_DD8 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:43 am
@Jonathan,
Yeah pretty much. Spot on actually. Drew is BARELY involved, he just signs the dotted line. People make it sounds like hes representing himself right now.
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Stuart Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 9:45 am
@Jonathan, careful Jonathan, don’t you know people hate rational reason more than they hate vacation to Thailand commercials??? Keep making sense and you’ll have the death sentence on 12 systems.
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Eric K Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@Stuart, Hey, don’t knock those commercials. My heart was touched.
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:11 am
@Jonathan, I bet that Meehan also stated to DD, “make no comments to the press until the deal is done”. We’ll have it done by camp or shortly after. If they King’s want you through your UFA years they’re gonna have to pay for it, otherwise it’ll be around 7 mil a year for 5 – 6 years”
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Kopitar has the same agent as DD.
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Everybody needs to relax. If Doughty signed today, next week, or next month, nothing would change. I think it’s very important that the Kings get the right contract.
Imagine if a player was coming of the third year of his entry level deal. Imagine if that player had steadily improved over three years scoring 93 points and 53 goals in this final year. Everybody would universally agree that the player should get $6 Million per season, if not more.
There was a player who did that. His name was Jonathan Cheechoo. If Cheechoo signed a 10 year $6M per season deal, the Sharks would be in trouble right now.
I’m not saying that Doughty and Cheechoo are completely comparable, but we’ve only gotten 3 years from Doughty. If I were GM, I’d need to see a little more before I handed him the keys to the vault.
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JDBiGC Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:09 am
@JDBiGC,
CORRECTION: Cheechoo had 56 goals in 2005-2006.
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As far as agents go Don Meehan would be considered a weasel who has done nothing but get too much money for his clients…….so he is great at his job.
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Everyone take a chill pill.
First of all… its early August people. Watch some Dodger baseball…that will surely make you appreciate hockey and the direction ownership and DL is taking this team.
Next…this is also all part of negotiating. DD8 agent has to appear he is doing everything he can to extort a ridiculous sum of money and term of contract from the Kings, including turn down service with chocolate truffles…errrrr dozen donuts placed on his pillow each night on all road trips.
Last…. DL is not going to give DD8 and his agent everything they want….even his agent knows this. The Kings will pay him handsomely for the player he is currently and factor in the player we all hope he will be one day.. BUT…the salary must fit into the long term plans of this team. If he gets greedy and holds out, its his prerogative…but holding out comes at a huge cost to him professionally, the view of his teammates and naturally the fans. His agent knows this and I fully expect a deal to get done before training camp opens if not before.
Rich, glad to see you back…another thread on this subject and I was going to slit my throat.
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puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@Barry’s Mullet, True. Holding out too long puts you behind the 8 ball so to speak in ao many ways. Last season, I really thought the Ducks were going to have a big mess on their hands when Ryan held out, but as we all saw everything worked out well for the team and the player.
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Here comes another 1000+ post count of people screaming for either Doughty’s or Lombardi’s head…
With that said, my gf bought me a pair of tix to the ducks/kings preseason game and it really drove home the feeling of how much ive been missing watching hockey. It’s been a long long time since i’ve had such a sustained feeling of confidence and anticipation for the upcoming kings season. Between the last couple seasons and this upcoming season… it feels good.
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Starting to lose my respect for Doughty…..Anyone who holds out this long just for money (at age 21) is not making any new fans. Doughty has potential, but when has potential ever won a Cup. I don’t need his head on a platter, nor Lombardi’s. I just want the two sides to sign and get this BS drama over with. On the other side of things, I wouldn’t mind punching Don Meehan in the face. (he’s a tick) <—and yes it could be a misspelling. It's been a LONG LONG off-season. GO KINGS GO. See you guys in the die-hard section!
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:51 am
@Chris, I’m holding off judgement until we’re close to the begining of the season. Right now it is just business as usual. Nothing to be concerned about.
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Chris Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 10:54 am
@KC23, Still want to punch Meehan!
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Stuart Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 11:45 am
@Chris, I hear ya Chris! Let me know when we can go London on his donkey and I’ll kick him in the neck!!!
qBIRD Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
@Chris,
I’m starting to lose respect for the Kings fans that are turning on Doughty when they have NO idea what is going on behind the scenes. Wouldn’t you want a contract (at the term that has been rumored..9 or so years) to be done right since it is going to take him through the prime of his career? If he signs a long term deal, this may be his career contract. The fact that he wants to sign a long term deal with us should show where his allegiance lies. Rant over.
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Chris Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@qBIRD, I am not turning on Doughty, just don’t like the way it’s been handled. I get your point, it’s the name of the game. We both want long term contacts, but by the sound of it, it’s $$$$ that is the issue! Also like I reitterated in my original post, I just want the deal done, nobodys head on a platter, just for the deal to be done.
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nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 8:14 am
@Chris,
I hear yur frustration, but DD”s not holding out at the moment.
Nobody is scheduled to report for another month. If the contract is signed the day of the opening of camp, that’s just as well for us fans.
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Somebody light the beacon at Minas Tirith when preseason starts and DD is not yet signed.
Till then, all everyone can do is wait and let the business people play this out.
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I don’t think Lombardi can publicly mention Shea Weber’s arbitration award before finalizing Doughty’s new contract. But, that $7.5M has an obvious effect on pinpointing DD’s worth, favorably tilting the negotiating power toward the player and not DL. Unfortunately for the organization, it means they’re going to have to up their offer. DD isn’t worth $7.5, but the market is indicating his value is toward the higher end of the range the Kings were considering. I don’t blame DD’s agent for not responding to the “pre-Weber arbitration” contract offer DL made to DD. That award resulted in a near-Seismic shift in DD’s negotiations, and things will only get done when the Kings up their offer.
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Token Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
@egold44, Comparables for DoughNuts:
Luke Schenn
Bogosian
Myers
Suban
Yes, Dewey knocks the socks off all these guys, but that is the class, chronologically, that he belongs to.
Weber is relevant only for setting a general milestone for one year arbitration awards, no more, no less.
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Rich, you may never read this, but I hope you had a great vacation and time away from the madness.
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I hope DL does not screw this up. All indications are DL does not want a short term deal and Doughty wants a short term deal. There is nothing wrong with a 4 or 5 year deal. Get it done DL before permanent damages occur with you and Doughty.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 11:51 am
@dave, DL isnt going to screw anything up! everything going on right now is just the nature of the beast.
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Jonathan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:33 pm
@dave,
Please point to any reputable source )or please furnish video or audio of Drew Doughty or his representatives_ stating that Doughty is interested in a short-term deal.
Eagerly awaiting your response.
Smooches,
Jonathan
[Reply]
dave Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@Jonathan, A hunch and opinion on my part. My opinion is he wants a term like Stamkos…Just a hunch on my part.
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Truthfully…I thought DD last season was ok at best…think n DL dont need him around anyhow!
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Only 41 days 6 hours 24 minutes and 12 seconds until the kings first preseason game…
only..
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kevinebel Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@bfarm, /cheer for posting this … Ive set a timer, thanks!
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Yay, a new post. I don’t care if it says “No news” — at least this way I KNOW there is no news to report.
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Welcome back RH. …back to read mode…
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I have a question. If we were to trade Drew to another team( on the east far away) what would be a fair return? Before everyone jumps in and calls me a doughty hater I don’t want him traded I think he’s awesome. I was just wondering what other people think would be a fair return. For conversation sake.
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jess Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@Jefreyryan, kovalchuck? J/K:)
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#1kingsfaninvegas Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@jess,
No Kovalspank… please!! LOL!
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#1kingsfaninvegas Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@Jefreyryan,
Zach Parise and a draft pick!
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Jefreyryan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@#1kingsfaninvegas, Yeah kovalsuck already screwed us over once I don’t want him I was thinking john Tavares and matt moulson.
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fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@Jefreyryan, why specualate on something that wont happen?
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Jefreyryan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@fsd1, why not? Not much else is going on anyways. Is anyone else excited for football??
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Helvetica Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
@Jefreyryan, You could probably trade him straight up for almost any other player in the league. I’d imagine there would be roughly 10-15 players that would be off the list or considered untouchable (guys like Crosby, either of the Sedins, Ovechkin, etc…). But it would be a little more complicated than that in reality. Things like team needs, contract lengths, cap space would be issues and/or factors.
Lots of people have been knocking Doughty and saying he isn’t worth top dollar, but i’d ask this question. Who on D would you rather have? Or, which winger (our obvious need) would you trade Doughty for? I bet the list to either question is extremely short, and i bet the guys on those lists get paid a lot.
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Jefreyryan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
@Helvetica, Weber. Parise. And i understand where your coming from. I wouldnt trade him, and i think kings fans are spoiled when it comes to drew. There are 29 other teams who would love to have him. I just thought it would be fun to think about. Ive been playing to much nhl 11 ahaha
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nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 8:20 am
@Jefreyryan,
Their really is no fair return for him.
The way his game is on D, there are few others in the league that can compare to what he’s capable of doing.
Parise doesn’t fly because he’s a forward. He’s an outstanding player, but he’s no better or worse than at last 10 other forwards in the league..probably more.
How many ‘men can compare?
Duncan KeDith..Shea Weber?
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Just one addition….. of course like all the rest of you, I think about the contract situation from time to time. The REALITY is that I just don’t know what the truth is of whats going on. I’m inclined to believe that this is very much in Meehan’s hands – and DD is out of the mix entirely. But still, it Was Meehan who got Stamkos done, which makes me pose the question, at what point is DD in fact involved in this other than, as someone supposed, just hangin out and not getting involved in it?
Because the bottom line is it still doesn’t look great. Many have used the comparison of Bobby Ryan, and maybe that’s exactly what will happen and all will be lovely. But until that time, there is still the possibility, however small that this could erode a tiny bit Drew’s links with the organization and fanbase. Maybe and maybe not.
[Reply]
BrokeKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@number 6, Hey bro… in case you didnt see my reply to one of your posts above i appologize for yesterday. The explanation is in a thread started by Dominick if your inteested as to why i got alittle pv’d. Hopefully no hard feelings. Anyway……. You bring up a good point about wheather DD is involved or not in these negotaitions. I dont really know how to look at it to be truthfull but i could see Meehan doing the negotiations and basicly telling Drew “this is what they offered/or what was worked out currently… does that sound good to you or do you want me to try and work out something else”. Meehan most likely does all the footwork/ back and forth and DD just says “ya or na”. I am very ignorant as far as the business side of hockey and contract negotiations so my input in all of this is pretty irrelevant but thats how I would see things going down.
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nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 8:22 am
@number 6,
whats up my man
You can only hope that the agent isn’t going back saying..”the Kings don’t think you’re worth Weber $$ because they think he’s better”
I would seriously doubt that would happen, but none of us really know
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Doughty is not worth the money he is asking for. He certainly is harming this awesome team by what he is doing. I love em. But I say trade him for more scoring power and picks. We have plenty of D in the pipe that could fill his spot. We are plenty strong down the middle on D and on G. Let’s get some more finishers to help our centermen.
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If he wants big money Shea webber style trade him. Rookie year was great but last year in playlets he looked fat and slow against sharks. young guys should get better each year not worse. Get rid of him while stock is high. See if we can lure a team to give up a player like Sidenburg or Murray from SJ for Doughtys fat ass.
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Gokings Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@Gokings, Sorry rich pardon the language . I get a little emotional about roster moves
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In all honesty, I blame Doughty. If he truly wanted to stay here, and sign in a hurry, just to end this drama, he would pull away from his agents and deal with the contract himself. A lot of people bash Jack Johnsons #’s and in retrospect, I agree with all of you that says his +/- need to be better. However, Jack Johnson got away from the agent drama, and stepped in and signed with the Kings at a respectable salary for the teams vision, by HIMSELF. No agents, not his mom or dad, not his dog, not his cat, not his little league coach. HIMSELF!!! Doughty needs to step up, be a man that he wants to be and just rid of his agents, and SIGN THE FLIPPIN CONTRACT HIMSELF!!! Agents are about the money, because the more the player gets… the more the agent gets. Therefore, Doughty just needs to step up and be the bigger man here, and get the job done.
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Helvetica Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
@#1kingsfaninvegas, So what you are really arguing here is that no player should have an agent, and all negotiations should be direct with the players. I think quite a few players w/o agents lack the business savvy to negotiate a fair deal for themselves. Just because JJ did it doesn’t mean all players can.
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Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:29 am
@Helvetica,
No, I think what he’s saying is that DD should take whatever DL offers him now, because the only side that’s fair is the side that isn’t representing DD.
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Kingrichard Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@#1kingsfaninvegas, lack of sack?
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nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 8:25 am
@#1kingsfaninvegas,
At this point, it’s impossible to blame either side.
Ngotiations are on going.
One thing none of us knew was how long the JJ negotiations had been going on for.
This is high profile and that’s why we are getting updates. the JJ signing flew under the radar. That doesn’t mean the Kings said take this and Jack happily did. For all we know, the negotiations could ahve been ongoing for months.
DD deserves to be paid what his value is.
The Kings want to pay him what his value is.
What’s his value????????
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I feel secure knowing doughty has a super agent to handle the bizz while he eats fruit loops and builds a fort out of the couch cushions
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fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@jess, that is just a dumb uninformed thing to say.
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Stuart Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@fsd1, very true, but the visual is friggin hilarious!!! Imagine, couch cushion castles!!! And you know that no respectable human being can do that in their everyday outside clothes, so I totally pictured DD in his pj’s or his tantaruns sitting in a box of couch cushions eating fruit loops with a spittle of milk running down his chins!! OUT-FRIGGIN-STANDING Jess! Thanks for the laugh!
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jess Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@fsd1,
Deep breath…
You will rarely ever see me post something serious on here. I usually say something as a stab at humor. Want to know why?? If you are that serious about a sport that you can’t have a laugh then maybe it’s time to ask yourself some deeper questions.
My JOB is serious. Very serious. But when I’m in here, usually just trying to make my friends laugh and that is all.
Cheers:)
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fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@jess, No problem, I hear you, It just gets confusing as to what reality is on here sometimes. I think you forgot the “joke” font. No problem, we cool. Now I can laugh about it….
Kingrichard Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
@jess, once the fat kid always the fat kid?
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Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:31 am
@Kingrichard,
Wasn’t King Richard a fat guy too?
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jess Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 6:33 am
@Dominick, King Richards was definitely a tubster
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 7:23 am
@Dominick, Of England? I’m not sure that either of 3 Richards were “tubsters”… Now Henry VIII, that’s a different story. Definitely a large mammal.
See ya, Drew. Nice knowing you.
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=585986&navid=mod-rr-headlines
they forgot Dustin Penner on the list!!
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Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:15 am
@pat,
I agree. Good thing is, that Penners looking like he’s going to be in really good shape to start the season, and since he’s already made that commitment, it’s not a stretch to think that he might even be looking to dedicate himself to playing up to the bar he’s now raised for himself. This could be a life changing experience for Penner, and hopefully change the minds of those who think he should be on that list.
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Osaka Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:35 am
@pat, Penner put up Penner numbers last year, he just struggled a little with the Kings. He scored 21 goals in 62 games for EDM, that is on pace for what he normally does.
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August 10 Rich Hammond starts this thread with the news that there is NO news on the DD-DL negotiations.
August 11 the Sporting News uses Rich’s NO-NEWS intro as “source material” for a headline that the negotiations could last well into September.
If you need any more evidence that no one outside of DL and Meehan knows his a$$ from a hole in the ground, just read aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2011-08-11/drew-doughtys-negotiations-with-los-angeles-kings-could-last-into-september.
[Reply]
tuan jim Reply:
August 11th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
I screwed up the link: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2011-08-11/drew-doughtys-negotiations-with-los-angeles-kings-could-last-into-september
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IS IT OCTOBER YET!!!!!!!!??????????????????????????? UGH!
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If it is true that Doughty was offered 6.5 for nine years, the salary amount is good, totally fair and maybe even a little high for now but a little low if all goes well and the cap goes up over time. The happy medium, it seems.
If it is true that Doughty is asking for more per year on a short term deal, because he wants leverage when he turns UFA, I can see Lombardi wanting to avoid that. That would be the worst scenario for DL, in that he gives a high number now, which would be hard to come down from on the next contract, while also risking the loss to a higher bidder when Doughty reaches UFA.
For me, Doughty’s actual career play so far does not warrant the kind of treatment where a GM gives him whatever he wants just to “keep him.” Potential alone is not worth the long-term effects that would handcuff DL in the next few years while also allowing the likelihood of a ridiculously high contract next time around.
I am aware of all the in-game stats regarding possession time, quality of opponent, and while those are meaningful in a certain context and can be used to exhibit particular, limited proficiencies, the fact remains that Doughty has some problems in his game.
Doughty is weak on possession when being pursued in his own zone, especially when retreating toward his own goal line and even more so on the backhand. He is easily cornered and has had some very high-profile “strips” of the puck. He watches his pass often, too, leaving him motionless and partially out of the play.
Doughty is not an excellent PP quarterback; he is neither an excellent playmaker nor a formidable one-time shooter. I have seen people here say he got decent PP numbers during the second half of the season, and ended up with good numbers even though the power play struggled. But, if Doughty is the PP quarterback, a struggling Power Play is actually evidence of Doughty’s play not being good to begin with. If Doughty were a better PP quarterback the PP would not have suffered.
He is given to undisciplined penalties; no better example of this than the swipe he took at the Shark player that had broken his teeth in a playoff elimination game. A guy can learn team-first discipline, but a guy still learning that is not a guy that deserves absolute top dollar.
Doughty can be questioned in both intensity and judgment; at times his strength of having a carefree attitude can also be a fault.
The same carefree, no-pressure quality that lets him bop his head to the music on the bench during a Gold Medal Olympic game could also indicate the absence of a killer instinct. For example, did Mark Messier or Steve Yzerman ever look like that? Those guys could melt helmets with a stare, does the contrast with Doughty’s demeanor bode well? I often get the feeling with Doughty that it is only a matter of time until he meets someone equally good, and when the fun goes out of it and it turns to WAR that Doughty will not have grit and clench needed. Sometimes it is just not fun and games; sometimes it is triple overtime and guys are puking from exertion and taking IV’s between periods, not giggling on the bench and rockin’ Itunes in their heads.
As far as judgment, when Doughty wants to “take over a game” he often gets himself caught up-ice, over-playing the situation, with no positive result while risking a very strong negative result. Compared to the rush and possession threat of a Paul Coffey, or a Brian Leetch, Doughty is not in that league and is nowhere near it. His rushes end up in the corner, in a scrum, and do not result in the sharp pass for the tip in, or the cross-ice pass for a one-timer, etc. He is capable of making the rush to the net, but when that option is taken away Doughty does not yet have the skills to maintain the threat by possession or pass.
It can be said that Doughty will have time to grow and may well achieve all these traits to a degree equal to the greats. But that is potential, at best. To argue that he is only young and will someday likely be those things is to argue that he is not now worth the kind of contract that exceeds 6.5 for nine years. If Doughty wants more money than 6.5, it has to be based on a sacrifice of length of term and clauses. If he wants a short-term contract ending before UFA status, it should be based on sacrifice of dollars.
Maybe some players are worth giving everything, but not at 23. And, especially not at 23 with Doughty’s shortcomings. I am not saying the guy is awful, or not good, I agree he is a very good defenseman. 6.5 is also a very good salary. More than that requires more than the current Drew Doughty.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:02 am
@Player-X, solid take. The only things I might give DD the benefit of the dought are with regards to his war-time attitude. I’ve seen (while in attendance at games, not on the TV screen) DD be pretty nasty behind plays, and with 2 ref-system, he’s been caught several times, but still. I think the mean-streak is there and I do feel when push comes to shove he responds, albeit borderline recklessly.
And as far as his rushes go, I think maybe it’s a coaching style thing. None of our players have that killer instinct to take it hard to the net (and I hope with the addition of MR they see how profitable this can be). Maybe the coaches ask that if the player doens’t see an opening take it around or wait for help, lest I digress. But I’ve seen him make some very Coffey/Leetch-esque moves through and around people from one end to the other. True that the play-making isn’t there yet, but his solo ability is on par with those gloried Dmen of yesteryears.
Good break down of what he should be happy to make, salary-wise.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:10 am
@Stuart, just to add to my possible coaching thing: if this happens to be the case, it might have to do with a lack of trust by the staff in that they might not feel the players are mature/smart enough to make the right play, so they push making the “safe” play. IDK just thinking out loud.
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:36 am
@Stuart, Funny with “benefit of the dought”, lol.
I still don’t think Doughty is there yet on overall rush ability, Coffey and Leetch, for example, would circle the net, they might return to the point or drop a pass to the crease, sometimes make the feint and cross-ice pass, etc. Doughty is good on an initial rush but like I said, if he gets stopped he loses possession and really is not a passing threat very much at all.
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:48 am
@Player-X, in total agreance with you. It was the initial, DD vs them, rush that I was trying to talk about. Not his passing off or setting up, play-making for others. I was talking about his own moves/shot creation. But DD is as silky as those two IMO. He can almost ALWAYS get by the first 2 guys. I think our team as a group plays too much along the boards in most situation, but that my be by coaches design.
good stuff!
nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:03 am
@Player-X,
Mozt of the points relate to immaturity. His skill set is equal to or better than any D’man in the NHL
He’s been playing significant minutes in the NHL since he was 18 years old. Not too many guys can do that and impress enough to be a top 4 D’man on a Gold Medal winning team in a pressure situation equal to a Stanley Cup final.
You can argue the point of whether you should pay for potential or past results, but the bottom line is if we won’t pay that, someone else in this league will.
If he was traded and signed by another team and he wins cups and Norris Trtophy’s and becomes the player we all think he will, how as an organization can you ever recover?
The last time we had a guy like that was Larry Murphy. Look how long it’s taken us to recover?
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:26 am
@nykingfan, I disagree that his skill set is equal or better than any other d-man. Chara, Lidstrom, Weber, Keith, are all better. The whole idea about maturity is an extremely important point: maturity does not come necessarily with age, some guys never ashivea matureity in their play; discipline, game situational awareness, conduct, off-ice and off-season bahavior, etc. It cannot be said that Doughty will certainly “mature.” It can be said that he is not there yet.
Yes, he was good in the Olympics. Very good. But that was his best play before or since. John Druce once got 14 goals in 15 playoff games, too. Doughty was impressive for stretches; he was less than great for equal or longer stretches.
He won’t be signed by another team, he is Kings property. I am not advocating a trade. I am saying that 6.5 was a serious, fair and attractive offer. I think DL came in with his actual number and did not try to lowball at all, if the 6.5 for nine years is true. I would be fine with DL standing pat on that offer, after all if Drew wants to play he has to sign a deal.
Kings play without Drew; Drew does not play without the Kings.
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:27 am
@Player-X, *achieve maturity
Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 10:29 am
@Player-X,
Absolutely well thought out post (as always). I would like to point out that DD is 21, and the points you point out are (although) strong, are also marginal in DD’s overall development to this point. For every time he brings a negative, he’s also bringing 3 positives into the equation that far exceed any normal 21 year old defensemans play (price tag is debatable).
With the added pressure of opponents focusing in on DD (knowing they have to stop him) opponents are going to figure things out, and it’s going to happen with any player that teams focus all their energies on from game to game. Last season the biggest thing I noticed was his composure. He seemed to (along with the extra attention) take exception to aggressive play, and lost control at times.
The only real disagreement I have about his play is your assessment of his power play time. He is playing a set system. What I mean is, the plays are already diagramed, and set up, and none of the players on the ice are able to step outside these predetermined responses. That is why nothing is surprising, or creative on the Power play. Everyone knows the point shot is coming. Everyone knows the guy in front is looking to screen and get rebounds. Cut out the middle of the ice, and no one will pass through the 4-man box laterally, and everyone will pass around the perimeter till an opponent hopefully misses his coverage, but the problem is they are getting too good at recovering since they already know what the next step is.
The failures are easy to see, and many believe it’s too predictable. That is imho why the power play is so easy to read. I don’t hold DD completely responsible for being stopped on the PP, because that could be said about everybody on the power play. Match up the power play numbers and consider how well opponents stopped the Kings, and DD did well enough considering the parameters he had to work with. If the Kings can let the players determine for themselves on the power play how to attack more, we might see more creativeness, and DD might earn that money, but currently, everybody sucks on the PP (except for JJ LOL).
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
@Dominick-
“For every time he brings a negative, he’s also bringing 3 positives into the equation that far exceed any normal 21 year old defenseman’s play ”
But, Doughty is not asking to be paid according to relative skill at a certain age; that is not the metric. His basis is in by comparison to the league elite; it is not a contest among the 21-year-olds.
AS far as the PP, I do not see the rigidity you do. I see a lack of playmaking personnel. Smyth is a net-front camper, and he was the King’s strong suit. Hence, they used the system that comports to that strength. Now, with Gagne and Richards to complement Kopi, there will finally be a low threat for pass or shot. No longer will it be Kopi alone, getting keyed on and taken out of the play forcing the point shot.
Who was Kopi going to pass it to? Brown is not a finesse player in close, he’s a power forward with a strong wrist shot, but not really a one-time shooter. Still, Brown’s 28 goals included 7 on the PP, for a percentage of 28%. Penner came late, plays much like Smyth camping a bog body net-front. Williams was the only chance for a true skill player on the PP to go with Kopi, and Williams got 5 of his 22 goals on the PP, 22.7%.
When you have barely one unit of skill guys, and one guy (Ryan Smyth) is getting 9 of his 23 goals on the PP, then the system naturally adopts the most productive style and system. Smyth’s percentage of goals on PP was a scary, whopping, mighty damn expensive 39%. Smyth did not over-perform his salary on the PP; he under-performed his salary 5 on 5.
The predictability, in my mind, came from a system suited to personnel, and the personnel for a true skill style was not there. So they bombed from the point whenever possible. Now, we are going to have two full units of skill guys. All top 6 forwards can and will get PP time.
Gagne: 79 of 276 goals lifetime on the PP, for 28.6%. 11 Shorties, too, by the way.
Richards: 36 of 133 goals lifetime on the PP, for 27%, to go with 23 shorties.
With no loss to the PP except Smyth, and with that loss being covered twice over in Smyth and Gagne (along with their short-handers potential, and then also add the 5 on 5 enhancement) the two new guys will make a huge impact on both special teams. The Kings, whose Power Play was 21st last year but was also 7th the year before with mostly the same personnel, can now look forward to a huge improvement in variety of style, and I believe, also a huge improvement in scoring.
I do agree that Doughty’s numbers were partially dragged down by a predictable pwoer play, but the relationship is symbiotic, and the statistics are mutually inclusive. The blame is shared, the degree of responsibility within that sharing is debatable. But, if Johnson can do it…
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
@Player-X, dammit, typo, Brown’s percentage was 25%, not 28, duhh.
Dominick Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
@Player-X,
I’m still not completely convinced it was all a personal limitation that stunted the power play all season long, because I believe it could of been used differently, and found success with the line up we had, but regardless of what I believed then, it will be different now simply because of the talent being added. It will be a red flag to see the same exact power play strategy with the fire power we have available, but I don’t believe that will happen next season, so I am excited (please don’t take my pointing at last seasons power play failures as a prejudgement for next season).
I think where we differ on DD (as far as the power play) is on how much % we give to system vs player. We see eye to eye on a lot of things, but the % for us change when it fails. I looked at DD as doing what he could considering that other teams were targeting him, and the power play was predictable. Wether it was his fault it was predictable, or his own choices contributed to that, is an interesting question for sure, but that was the only real point i saw as substantial.
As too DD’s value, the market value, we can only guess, but in the current market there’s no comparison, because no 21 year old has made the impact DD has in the current market. Yes there have been 21 year olds who have made bigger impacts in the past, but those guys were looking at a market where 2 (even 4) million dollars was a lot of money. Yes, that was a lot back then, but not where we are today. Since there is not set market, I don’t really contest your conclusions because your looking at it with a rational point of view.
Player-X Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 9:01 am
@Dominick- Now I see your point about his age being relative, I had missed that. Not sure how much impact the age has, in setting his value, but it kinda puts a new light on the whole “potential” angle making his value higher.
I guess I am just still struggling with the fact that potential is not guaranteed to become ability. I keep getting stuck on the idea that development is not necessarily linear, or rarely is, really. So I worry about the combo of huge bucks and a long term.
I have always wished for a 3 year deal, leaving one year before Doughty reaches UFA, so they could re-enter contract talks with a solid number of years on which to judge performance.
A 3 year deal would be a risk for Doughty in that he would be giving up an assurance of pay even if there were a catastrophic injury, but the balance is that he could earn more then if he were to excel according to expectations. 3 years would be a risk for Lombardi in that he would probably have to pay a lot more on the new deal then, with cap going up, and if Doughty reaches or exceeds expectations, but the balance is his strong leverage in that last year of RFA where he could sit Doughty if there was a holdout, and nobody wants to sit in a “contract year.”
King Cobra Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 9:56 am
@Player-X, I agree with most all you thoughtfully laid out. I think Drew is being slightly over rated by a lot of fans because of emotional impatients.
He is not worth paying a cent more than 6.5 million no matter how the deal is structured.
DL hold firm on this one, do not sell the farm for this guy.
GKG!!!
[Reply]
nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 11:25 am
@King Cobra,
Ha?
This has absolutely nothing to do with emotional impatients. This has everything to do with the player Drew Doughty SHOULD become. I say should because you never know if a player decides to throw away his potential.
The only reasons that make any sensse in why DD won’t become the superstar D’man in this league are either injury or Drew’s unwillingness to become the best.
Watch his end to end rushes..watch the playoff game against SJ (forgot which one) that he dominated and then we can talk about that emotional thing again. It’s all about the skill!
as far as putting a drop dead amount…unless we were going to be over the cap and forced to trade guys like JJ…why should that be the drop dead number?
If he hits UFA..how many teams will bow out at $6.5 in the bidding? NONE!
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@nykingfan, I think you’re missing the point of the conversation which started with Player-X saying “Potential alone is not worth…[see the first post]”
Should’ve, would’ve, could’ve is usually followed by “but didn’t”
Has DD shown flashes of brilliance beyond compare? YES
Has DD shown dominating D? YES
The problem with shown is that something only needs to have happened once for it to be considered SHOWN.
We need to establish the difference between SHOULD BE and IS.
worr Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 11:46 am
you gone loose another talent player,if you don`t change the coach(it`s time for him to come up from the mine and see the daylight)
welcome to Sweden Oscar and Bud hope you will have a great seeson over there
I miss you two guys alot already but i will follow you in sweden
nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Stuart,
I understood the original premise of his post.
Do you pay for potential or past performance?
Either one comes with significant risk.
In this instance we don’t have an option other than to pay DD based on potential.
The Kings hold the hammer in this situation to a degree. DD can’t play for anyone else (other than offer sheet)
problem is..we’re not winning anything without him.
DL is doing this the right way…If DD’s not going to give up any UFA years, then the contract will be for a smaller annual amount. If he’s willing to forego several of his UFA years to remain with the Kings, I would have no problem making him the highest paid King.
The amouint it would cost us by the time he gets to UFA status will be a lot more than it is now.
The Kings have to do this based on what they know about DD, his skill set and what he means to the franchise.
IMO he’s the most valuable commidty this franchise has..including Kopi. (based on the position)
sorry to go on here..but just thought about something with Kopi and the early years.
Kopi started out like a house on fire..once teams began to realize this and use their best checkers against him, Kopi’s production slowed down..ernough that people on this blog were questioning whether we should keep him.
It took a couple of years, but he’s more than adjusted to the attention and has become one of the best 2 way players in the league.
his value was on diaplay with his absence in the playoffs.
He received a big conteract from the Kings basedf largly on potential. So far, so good!
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@nykingfan, I undestand what you’re saying with re to DD and potential vs. previous performance. And as Norris as DD might be, I don’t think he is the lynch-pin to whether or not a cup comes to LA. I just don’t. I think our marked improvment on O this year will cover up a lot of things that we might miss without DD on D. But regardless, we can’t argue about these things because you feel one way and I another.
Alas, with re to AK, you’re Kopi progression is a little flawed. Yes, he started out as you say, his pts climbed his sophomore year, and then in 08-09 TM came onto the scene and asked him to play more responsibly (defensive minded) and his pts total dropped again from the previous year. Mind you each of these yeards being talked about after his rookie year, the league began to key on him. So I don’t think is was the attention that affected AK (the way it did DD this year) but rather the system change, and this last year I chalk up to the rotating wingers that never let his game gel. I truly believe that AK’s size and skill set will always beat the other teams top D pair and that’s why, added with his recently aquired 2-way prowess, AK is our best player. Just MHO…
nykingfan Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
@Stuart,
We can agree to disagree.
it’s hard to argue with either of them being the most important parts of the franchise.
In truth, I think we need both at their best to win a cup.
We both probably agree there….
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@nykingfan, now THAT I can agree with!
King Cobra Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@nykingfan, I just watched all of the San Jose playoff games again last week and with the exception of game 2 (yes, DD was on fire that day) I think he almost did more harm than good at times. Whether it was missing hip checks that led to game winning goals or passing the puck right on to Joe Thorntons stick in our zone, DD has a lot still left to prove if he wants to be paid superstar $$$$$.
He is not our most important or best player, why should he be paid the most??
If he played like he did in game 2 all the time (or even 90% of the time) we would be talking about a different story and a different player, but he has not even come close to doing this. He makes big time, costly mistakes on a regular basis and this needs to be taken in consideration.
Part of “skill” is consistent relative mistake free play and we have not got that from DD much.
I am not a Drew Doughty hater, I love the guy. I just want to keep this debate in the galaxy of reality.
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 3:29 pm
@nykingfan, and Stuart… Nice to see you guys “argue” without being argumentative. Interesing exchange, too, thanks.
KC23 Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@Player-X, I would strongly disagree regarding DD’s possesion skills. The mistakes DD leans towards are not giving enough space related turn overs. DD possesion skills are among the best in the league in his zone or anywhere else on the ice. He does need some work on his PP point skills. That slap shot wind up is very slow allowing for block shots.
Regarding taking bad penilties one must consider the massive amount of ice time and he typically going against the other teams top forwards. While I don’t consider DD to be outstanding with regard to not taking bad penilties, I also don’t think he is all that bad either.
[Reply]
PowrrrPlay Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@Player-X, I certainly had a problem reading your statements and tying them together so that they were in all fairness, a good assessment of DD. I really wonder if there is something else personally bothering you but I want to give you an opportunity (or the benefit of the doubt) to tie your statements together because at this point, I call what you wrote a player character assassination. Hence my early statement about you. But …
Since you made a list of negative points that go on an on about DD’s play, let alone getting his age wrong, you left your items fairly open ended. Kind of like the way a political assassination might occur. Why am I making these statement? I am making these statements because for one you are a very good writer and two if you did not tie DD’s name to your post I might have thought you were talking about a marginal NHL player.
So after reading your assessment as a marginal player and then returning to your first paragraph “If it is true that Doughty was offered 6.5 for nine years, the salary amount is good, totally fair and maybe even a little high for now but a little low if all goes well and the cap goes up over time. The happy medium, it seems” well, I reiterate, is something else personally bothering you? If not, let us at least hear why DD is worth the 6.5m in that term. If you can not do that I feel your whole post is hog wash.
Sincerely,
PP
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
August 16th, 2011 at 10:00 am
@PowrrrPlay, For one, I do not have “something else bothering me.” That is exactly the kind of vague, personal character assassination you pretend to dislike.
I did not describe Doughty as a marginal player; I described some of the faults I see in his game. There are obviously, and it is apparently obvious to everyone except you, that Doughty has many qualities making him a very good defenseman. That is why he is worth the 6.5 in a current market taking in potential as well as performance, and why he was worth 5.375 according to performance only in last year’s salary cap market, and why 6.5 would be a happy medium going forward if he were to improve and the salary cap were to continue going up. There was no contradiction there, as you apparently tried to state but at best only clumsily implied.
If you want to talk to me, go ahead. If you want to have some sort of meaningful conversation, then try disputing the actual statements I made about Doughty’s weaknesses. If you don’t think Doughty is weak on the backhand when pursued in his zone and subject to strips and takeaways, make that point and support it, don’t just blurt out that I speak hogwash. If you don’t think he needs further development before he can be considered a top PP playmaker and quarterback, prove it: don’t attack me on tone.
The one thing I did make a mistake on was his age. If I were to use your technique of imputing motivation and thinking into what was “behind” what you wrote, I would probably say that your glee at finding something concrete and tangible that you can actually factually dispute must have caused you to overlook the closing paragraph that explains everything you are now doubting, except of course what might be bothering me (which I admit, now I do have something bothering me; it’s you.) Here is the last paragraph I wrote: “I am not saying the guy is awful, or not good, I agree he is a very good defenseman. 6.5 is also a very good salary. More than that requires more than the current Drew Doughty.”
The last paragraph makes it perfectly clear for those with no agenda, as shown by the other reactions from knowledgeable and veteran posters on this site who have respected opinions. They did not see hogwash, they saw cogent thinking, and either agreed or disagreed but did not feel it necessary to lower the conversation in your way.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
August 16th, 2011 at 10:11 am
@PowrrrPlay, OWWWNED
PowrrrPlay Reply:
August 17th, 2011 at 7:27 am
@Player-X, OK, I hear you. I am happy for you, in the fact that you are able to garner like minded opinions on LAKINGSINSIDER. I certainly was trying to insight your creative writing skills in a way that shows the readers here that you are able to write fairly about both sides of the fence. It certainly backfired.
That tact was poor judgement on my part. I will stand by my hogwash remarks though. I believe in the near future you will see that DL understands DD a lot more than you (even though I am not a fan of DL) give DD credit for. It seems like your writing skills have allowed you to over exaggerate aspects of DD’s game. My point that was lost is, if you are so good in analyzing DD’s game you should be able to do the same for the positives. I do not think you can equally break down DD’s game from a positive point of view except state that he is a good hockey player and only deserves 6.5m. Hogwash.
I will stand by my remarks that you have made a mountain out of a mole hill in your statements regarding DD and that your analysis of DD is essentially hogwash. I am not accusing you of being narrow minded I am accusing you of not being able to write about the benefits of DD’s skill set the way you tore him down.
DD is not the second coming of JC but he will get his fair share of the Kings salary cap.
I would certainly like to read here how you prove me wrong about your ability to assess DD’s game.
Sincerely,
PP
Player-X Reply:
August 17th, 2011 at 11:28 am
@Player-X, This is crazy. Thanks for the compliment on my writing skills; sorry if you feel I slanted unfairly. I just chose not to “go on and on” about Doughty’s qualities, thinking that saying a guy is “very good”, “worth 6.5″ etc. would be sufficient.
Not sure about this whole hogwash thing, sir, seems inflammatory, intentionally so, it contradicts your otherwise positive assessment and is simply a subjective impression.
Finally, I did not necessarily garner “like-minded opinions.” My point was that those who responded to me did so on the basis of argument, in retort to specifics I cited. Actually, Dominick and KC23 disagreed with me, for the most part, but we were all talking in matters of degree. Nobody else was insulting and dismissive, using inflammatory terms, and that was my point in the response to you. Now, we are talking about talking about hockey, the kind of tedious exchange that is pointless.
Drew was lazy last season, and if he holds out, trade him. I want to see him reach his full potential as a King, but we do not need another Kovalchuk distraction.
Trade him for Webber. We get the big mean offensive player on the back end the preds can’t afford and they can try to keep him on the cheap after he sees he is expendable. That is the problem with hyping up kids when you get them, their agents throw it in your face later.
[Reply]
Drew’s revenge:
If Doughty gets pissed off at the Kings for whatever reason and wants to screw them, here’s how he can:
/begin conspiracy theory
DD is a Group 2 RFA, and as such has ZERO leverage in contract negotiations. At the end of the day, he was presented with a Qualifying Offer, usually 105-110% of his previous salary of $875K per year and if it hits the fan, his choice is sign or don’t sign.
If he wants to screw the Kings, he holds out, signs a one month contract with a European club, plays a few games in Europe long enough for the NHL season to start.
Then he signs the Qualifying Offer. He has the document and it is non-revocable.
He then must report to the Kings AND PASS WAIVERS! Once you play outside the NHL after the season starts, you must pass waivers to get back in to the NHL.
So, 29 teams would then have a go at claiming DD off waivers, the Oilers being the ultimate bottom feeder favorites!
Kings would get nothing and salt in the wound to boot!
/end conspiracy theory
Yes, I’m bored and entertained by ultimate suffering!
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@Token, there would be rioting in the streets and and LA Kings fans would declare war on Edmonton.
Has this ever happened to a team and played out how you’ve laid out? If not, I hope SchMeehan does not read the insider…
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@Token, I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking.
I might be panicking.
I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking. I am not panicking.
I am panicking. If there was ever a time for you to be wrong, this is it.
[Reply]
jess Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@Token, Or he could show up to camp with a huge tire around his middle section
[Reply]
EASportsMgt Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
@Token, there are rules on place to prevent that scenario from happening. First, if I’m not mistaken, once he signs the European contract, his QO is voided. His rights still remain property of the Kings and he would not be subject to re-entry waivers. It’s a great theory but not plausible.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
August 12th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
@EASportsMgt, Yes, but the time spent in Europe does count toward UFA. He could play in Europe until he becomes an UFA. That being said, I’m sure the other GM’s would not look favorably towards DD in such a situation and might even decide to black ball him to discourage others from doing the same thing.
[Reply]
Token Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 10:07 am
@EASportsMgt, Wellwood – signed mid season by I think CBJ or Blues after playing in Europe, picked up by SJ.
Nabokov signed mid season by was it the Wings? Picked up by Islanders.
Granted, neither of these two are anywhere near RFA.
I think the QO stands until Dec 1st, the deadline to sign so there may be a window of opportunity for this kind of perverted swindle.
Not saying I’m accurate with this charade but you never know.
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I have not read all the posts, so I don’t know if this has been mentioned but, Doughty”s agent Don Meehan represents over 100 NHL players. Many of the players are prominent and include from the Kings in addition to Doughty, Matt Greene, Trevor Lewis, Mike Richards and Brad Richardson. So, like him or not, Meehan certainly knows his profession.
Dean Lombardi is a hockey man but certainly not a professional contract negotiator. I assume AEG has other management members involved. Is anyone familiar with the makeup of the negotiating team on the Kings side of the table and anything about their respective roles?
Maybe it is time for Tim Leiweke to take a day off NFL business and get the Doughty deal done.
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KC23 Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 9:37 am
@JackKent Cooke, Pretty sure one of the General Manager’s primary responsibility is negotiate contracts which by defacto makes him a professional negotiator, but I’m sure they have contract lawyers to make sure the wording in the contracts is what was intended by both parties. My guess is Meehan has the same.
Contract terms have to fit in overall cap space aloted for the team in relation to current and future contracts of all the other players both in LA and Manchester. Oh yeah and the CBA is changing so there is that to consider. So not only does one need an intimate knowledge of what DD is worth now and in the future, but all the other players in the organization as well and with respect to possible workage stoppage caused by CBA negotiations.
Tim Leiweke is probably the last guy you would want deciding on what DD is worth.
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JackKent Cooke Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@KC23,
For the record, Meehan is a lawyer.
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Dominick Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
For the record, DL is too.
JackKent Cooke Reply:
August 13th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
Now I see the problem.
according to Quick’s twitter account it looks as if Peter Harrold will not be replacing Doughty on the blue line. he signed with NJ.
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If Drew Doughty will wait for his contract that if he wants a 5 years with the kings for his contract for 5 year contract and maybe the kings will land Luke Schenn if Brayden Shenn is now with the Flyers if Luke Schenn will be likely to sign with the kings for between 5 or 6 years with the kings for Luke Scheen’s contract
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Stuart Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
@Adam M, that just left me scratching my melon man… try that again, I double-dog dare you.
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rick Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Adam M, Wow.
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Shotongoal Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
@Adam M, huh???
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If Drew Doughty will sign with the kings for 5 year offer contract with Luke Schenn with the kings with Drew Doughty and Luke Schenn for 5 years with the kings
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Player-X Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Adam M, there is repeating a syntax with problem your problem syntax with.
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Adam M Reply:
August 15th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@Player-X, Okay Player-X can Luke Schenn will join with the kings or not and tell me a reason about Luke Schenn to the LA Kings
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kevinebel Reply:
August 17th, 2011 at 9:58 am
@Adam M, Exactly! Like spring loaded anteaters all well acted out over a graphic pancake smoothie. Once even a sprocket can. Then for sure Schenn could possibility. Then “All your bases are belonging to us!” After then, Doughty will have no choices but to change!
Stuart Reply:
August 17th, 2011 at 10:18 am
@Adam M, or maybe you should have seen the curse that flew right by you. Page of concrete stain walks crutch in hobbled sway. A capillary hint of red.
Everyone knows the last toes are always the coldest to go?
just some nonsensical lyrics from a band I love that seem right up your alley. you’re an artist aren’t you? Or your FTW’s little bro!
@kevinebel – it’s all your basE (singular) LOL more than one base would just be ridiculous and make no sense. I jest I jest!!! LMAO
kevinebel Reply:
August 17th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
@Stuart, That’s it! Now we come after your base too! (or would it be also =p)