OK, we covered the easy part over the weekend. By virtue of reader vote, it’s been decided that Anze Kopitar’s line should include winger Dustin Penner and Justin Williams. No surprise there, as it certainly makes sense to want Williams on the first line and to want former linemates Mike Richards and Simon Gagne together on a line. Now comes the hard part. What do you do with the third line? When the Kings were healthy last season, the third line often was Alexei Ponikarovsky, Michal Handzus and Wayne SImmonds. Now all three of those players are gone. It’s presumed (if not certain) that Jarret Stoll will center the third line. If so, the Kings have a lot of options on the wing. Which do you like best? For purposes of the poll, we’ll list wingers with NHL experience or, if you believe that a rookie such as Bud Holloway, Ray Kaunisto, Tyler Toffoli, Linden Vey, etc., is going to step up and surprise in training camp, you can vote that way. Choose two wingers and let’s see how you would create the line…
Im thinkin Cliffy and Richardson.
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Pie Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:08 am
@OC HipCheck, I like them too but would love to see them with Lewis. Those three had such good chemistry at the end of last season it would be a shame not to give them a shot.
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Slapshot Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:10 am
@OC HipCheck, Enough said we can close the threads.
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Michael_DD8 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@Slapshot,
You know at a time, Stoll was our first line center!
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CB14 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@Michael_DD8, And at one time he was also our 4th line center.
OC HipCheck Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:29 am
@OC HipCheck, And it looks liek most people would agree with my vote LOL..
well at least according to the poll…
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PW Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:48 am
@OC HipCheck,
I agree. Richardson and Cliffy looked good in the playoffs. It would be a good hustle line because all three have a motor… Plus stoll and richardson might be their best skaters.
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duckbasher Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
@PW, Parse is also a Skater. I think it’s easy to forget how good of a skater he is because he was missing in action most of the year.
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Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
@OC HipCheck,
I don’t get it…Yeah, Richardson did play at RW some, but this is a defensive position we are talking about and Richardson is not a strong RW checker, that was never his role. He was RW on scoring lines when inuury and demotion made it unavaoifable.
Richardson is a center and LW, Lewis is a center and RW, that’s why they are perfect in tandem as depth players, they cover an entire line while adding positive depth to the center position. Clifford should be LW for Stoll, and I like Lewis on Stoll’s RW.
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jon Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 8:51 am
@OC HipCheck, are you kidding? richardson does not belong on an nhl team, the only reason he is on one is because hes in the kings organization. trevor lewis will have a breakout year. and what else does clifford have to show us? the fourth line should consist of rookies trying to prove themselves (as we saw last year with clifford)
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Lyon > LA Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
@jon, I would LOVE to see Lewis have a breakout year, but I would have loved to see him have one last season as well, and it just didn’t happen. Clifford has earned a spot on the third line, and Richardson should be there based on experience until one of these younger kids steps up and takes it from him by sheer force… which I hope, for the team’s sake, happens. Honestly, I’m looking at Loktionov to surprise before Lewis.
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Kyle Clifford, and one of Jamie Langenbrunner or Antti Miettinen. Joel Ward would have been nice.
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fsd1 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 9:58 am
@Scot, i just have a feeling we make no more trades or FA signing, I think we go with what we have.
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Scot Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@fsd1,
You may be right. I have no idea, but I would let go of Scott Parse, and let Loktionov try and play a full year in the AHL, with a call-up, if necessary. It all depends on what he does in training camp.
As for Parse, I know there’s potential he becomes the next Moulson/Boyle/Purcell, but had any of those 3 players stayed with the Kings, they would not have become the players they are now. It just seems to me like Parse is not going to work out here either.
At any rate, a bottom 6 forward group of Stoll, Richardson, Clifford, Lewis, Parse, Loktionov, and Westgarth is just a little too lacking in experience for my comfort level. I would try and sprinkle a seasoned veteran in there somewhere.
But like you said, DL may not do anything else. And that wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing, either.
[Reply]
dbargaehr Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:56 am
@Scot,
Parse has had too many injuries to have “proven” or “disproven” himself to Murray/Lombardi. They are going to give him at least a full season, IMO.
omar Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
@Scot, westgarth needs to be playing as a fourth line winger because with all these stars on our team someone needs to playing the enforcer role. westgarth isnt the best fighter but with simmonds gone and clifford trying to focus more on scoring someone needs to be ready to drop the gloves to defend our stars. but this is what the lines should look like
25 11 14 8 33
12 10 23 3 2
13 28 15 53 7
19 22 21
brian spain Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
@Scot, Loktionov is not strong enough to be a checking line player. and not good enough to be a third line center. Parse has speed and will probably be on the third line.
rogiesbackup Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
@Scot, unfortunately our best grinding line is no more save for Clifford. Thought Handzus, poni, and simmonds was great combination. Poni would’ve been better had he played more.
kevin Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
@fsd1,I dont know if Semin is being shopped we might look at that as an option
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rogiesbackup Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:55 pm
@kevin, Nah….lets leave this concoction alone or the chemistry might just blow up!!
The team is pretty potent right now.
duckbasher Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@Scot, – Miettinen is highly underrated. I’d love to have him. and Langenbrunner?? Does he have anything left in that tank? A beast at times in his career that’s for sure.
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I’m thinking Parse should start on the 4th, and prove his health and what he can provide the team! Clifford was a monster in the playoffs, but doesn’t seem like there’s room for him on the top 2 – and richardson should have more playing time than a 4th liner
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:23 am
@Jack, my sentaments exactly! you and me…..eye to eye buddy. Clifford will be a mainstay on the 3rd line IMO and Richardson should join him on the other wing centered by Stolly. Parse needs to prove himself to get anything more than 4th line minutes for sure
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IceGuy Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@Jack,
One word – Bingo!
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duckbasher Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
@Jack, Kyle needs to be given a mandate…. he needs to quit fighting the other team’s heavy. I worry that he’s going to get killed (and I do mean killed) one of these days. He’s a great asset and I want him on the ice (not in the box or even worse on the DL). He’s proven that he’s our guy. With that said, we don’t have room for a soft skater/passer/fighter like Westgarth. The guy can’t skate or hit. He only fight in those “staged” fights (a worthless exhibition). I never see him hitting anyone with the puck. I want a guy like Avery or Laperrier who hits, pushes, shoves, facewashes, and stands up for his team. And every once in a while… gets in a fight with some other goon just to keep his fightingt skills up to par. Westy is SOFT.
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Who did Stoll center last year?
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KCH12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:04 am
@socalkings, i think the better question would be who didnt stoll center last year.. LOL
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Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:23 am
@KCH12, haha, yup. i think everyone played with everyone last year.
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Token Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:08 am
@socalkings, Smyth and Williams.
Ye ol’ Geezer Line was strong on the start.
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jet Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:20 am
@socalkings, He was at his best with the geezers. Of course Symth is gone, so all forwards are now under 30. It will be interesting to see if he can lead younger players. I am going with Clifford and Cliche. Cliche is strong on the puck, is a little older, is good on the D side, and he can take a faceoff if Stoll gets kicked out. Cliche can also play on the PK, saving the legs of our offensive guys. Lewis could do it, but I think he has a future in at center.
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Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@jet,
I’ve really liked Cliche, and the past 2 camps have been really pulling for him. I think he’s got real solid numbers for a prospect, and along with Kitsyn, Clune, and Hickey, are my dark horses to surprise in camp this summer (if Kitsyn even makes it). Out of my favorites, I have Muzzin possibly unseating Martinez.
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Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@Dominick, Dom, I can’t see Martinez doing anything other than making the team and being a solid 5th d-man, his puck movement is too good, he uses speed to establish defensive position and is great with his stick defensively also. Martinez is, IMO, a real sleeper that a team needs to make a run at the Cup: young and cheap, playing over his salary by miles. I think Martinez is going to be around for a long time, unless he gets traded to some team willing to overpay for him.
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
@Player-X,
I agree. I don’t think it will happen, just that Muzzin is the best option to give Martinez a run for his money. If Martinez has an injury or something, it’s not inconcievable to see Muzz step right in. Muzz would have to have an unbelievable camp to actually unseat Martinez, but stranger things have happened.
For all intents and porposes, I think there will be competition, but at the end of the day, Martinez will be left standing.
Spanky Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@Dominick, Kitysn may come to camp but he’s locked in to play jr’s…so i’ve heard.
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
@Dominick,
There is no chance Muzzin takes Martinez spot. Not even close.
5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@Dominick, Cliche is a good 4th line center prospect but not much else. Doesn’t have Trev’s speed or puck skills. Gonna have to show alot in camp, more then he ever has in his career to get considered. Kitsyn is a “cannot miss” wonder kid! He has everything in his bag of tricks! He plays a North American game already at 19 from Eastern Europe! He is only 19, so his time isn’t now IMO! Clunatic is not an NHL Winger! He is a left handed Westgarth and no more! That position is not favored for a left or right hander, so its Westgarth’s to lose. A spot player and designated fighter who plays on coach’s orders only! Cannot have 2 or those kind on one roster unless one can play…neither of them can, but Westie is bigger! Hickey has to get stronger, get his head straight and play 1 solid complete year of pro hockey(AHL) before he can be considered seriously. Skill and potential out the door for this kid if he can get it together(mature abit). Muzzin may take Harrold’s spot, but more likely Voynov is in LA this year as a Right handed D-man with plenty of skills. Leave Martinez alone, he will be fine as a 5-6 guy. Speed is a natural thing and Alec has it to spare. Plus he has good puck skills and is gaining the confidence to know when to jump or stay home! he is a bright lad! He isn’t going anywhere but here IMO. Muzzin is on the fence as a AHLer or an NHLer, don’t know just yet which one he is? Nic Deslaurier is a “real sleeper on D” with all the tools, just a raw kid of 20 but coming fast! Not this year, but soon enough! Future is bright for several in the cupboard!
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@5holer,
I’m not picking on Martinez, just saying that’s where the competition will be. Martinez a few years ago didn’t have a clue. Last year Muzz was close till Martinez came in and blew the competition out of the water. I look at Muzz as coming in and proving that he can be a viable replacement in case of injury.
I did list him as a favorite for competing against Martinez, because that’s who the Kings will pit him against to generate competition in camp. They will not pit Muzz against DD, JJ, Mitchell, Greene, or Scuds. I also stated that at the end of the day Martinez will be left standing.
There is concern (not just by me) about wether Kitsyn will play here next season, but if you’ve got confirmation then please! by all means share it with me and provide me a link.
Clune I absolutely admit is a gut feeling, and every year I pick one. Last year I made it known that Martinez would be
Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@Dominick, In the interest of full disclosure, you will probably remember of course that I did want to trade Scuderi and mentioned Muzzin as his likely successor, this back when I was operating under the projected cap at 62.5 with Smyth still around. I agree with you that Muzzin seems to be the next guy ready to step up, and it is really great to have someone that good waiting to get their chance, too, huh? BTW, if you predicted Martinez, nice one… any tips on horses at the track?
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@Player-X,
It is nice, and I know exactly when you made that reference. I also agreed with you.
Rich had done an article about who people would think would make an impact on defense last summer. EA was asking a lot about what people thought of him, so he stuck out as a guy I kept an eye out for. I admit though, I didn’t pick him because I saw the talent level, or improvement being higher, but him being bigger, and having had more call ups then the other rookies listed.
Went with Lewis (he should be a lock) and Parse
[Reply]
I like Cliffy and Richie, too. I’m thinking Lewis or Loktionov center the fourth line with Parse on LW. Westy and a rookie will share time on the RW. That gives the Kings fourteen forwards. I highly doubt there will be any more signings.
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Parse has to re-prove himself on the 4th line imho. I put Clifford and Richardson.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@KC23, i agree 100%
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
@KC23,
Parse has a lot to prove. People must be smoking really good stuff because I haven’t seen him do anything. Everyone has potential. Living up to it is where things get tricky. Clifford, Richy and Stoll will be solid. Lewis, Parse and…
Lotki is too talented to be grinding on the 4th line. IMO at least.
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Clifford – Stoll – Lewis(Cliche)
gKg!
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Token Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@LBlocal, I like that but Cliffy might be a bit of a loose cannon for TM.
It all depends on how many rookies on the fourth line.
Good choice though. My favorite.
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jet Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:36 am
@LBlocal, jinx, okay, the timestamp shows you beat me to it.
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Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
@LBlocal, agreed!
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Why not put Stoll on the wing to take advantage of his shot, and have Loktionov center him and, say, Parse or Lewis. Stoll can still take the faceoffs and this will put the most skill on the ice. Bottom 6 of Parse-Loktionov-Stoll and Clifford-Richardson-Lewis.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@Jeff,
Lokti feeding Stoll? The stronger Stoll doing the dirty work in the corners that Lokti struggles at? I think you may have a brilliant idea here. Good call.
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duckbasher Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
@FKA PakiFro, I couldn’t agree more. Stoll’s shot is as good as we’ve had on the Kings for quite some time. Hard to handle and lots of potential loose pucks in the crease. Are you listening TM?
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rontheking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:29 am
@Jeff, That’s an interesting idea which might be worth trying.
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Harrison Merkin Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:47 am
@Jeff, I had Cliffy and Parse but I think I like the idea of Stoll on the Right side. Although I would slot Richardson in at center with Stoll taking the big draws. Lewis centers the 4th line with parse and a situational body. Stolly has the defensive mind set to let Richie run wild and deep with Cliffy moving bodies on the way in. Lewis and Parse can run free for a few shifts and all of sudden we are rolling 4 lines. I like it. I like it a lot. Good call Jeff
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Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@Jeff,
Stolls to valuable at center (which is his natural position). The possibilities don’t outweigh the benifits. Not saying TM won’t try it at some point, but if it doesn’t click immediately it will die just as quickly as it is concieved.
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Spanky Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
@Dominick, So, does Stoll play center on the PP? no he’s at the point in a defensive position.he’d be awesome at wing!
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IceGuy Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@Spanky,
For better or worse, here’s how I see it.
Cliffy has earned his shot on the 3rd line.
Stoll may well blossom as the new-found / retreaded 3rd line Center.
That leaves essentially 4 spots open.
Let the dogfight begin!
I said maybe a 1,000 comments ago, that for the first time in a long, long time, the Kings are finally in the position of telling those young and hungry players in camp, “You want a job with the big boys? Earn it!”
Not long ago if you could kinda skate, carry a stick and knock a guy off the puck once in a while, you were 4th Line material. No more. I have always loved the idea of rolling 4 Lines. And now, Murray has the chance to do exactly that.
From Parse to Richardson to Lewis to Lotki to Cliche to Holloway to whomever: Let the competition begin!
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@Spanky,
With Richards being able to play the point, I suspect Stoll will play center more. Without Smyth on a fixed position in front, The Kings will either use Stoll more there, or higher in the crease for a onetime option (shooting % would improve because of shorter distance to the net for Stoll), but the Kings have continually resisted lateral movement on the PP from the 1/2 boards so far.
I really have no Idea, and can only speculate on what makes sense, because TM/Kompon don’t always follow the obvious path (or the ones that most would consider common sense moves).
I would love to see Brown on the 3rd line RW and possibly a rookie or another pickup to play RW on the 2dn line. Brownie would make an awesome 3rd line RW. I don’t see him as a top 6 forward.
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TransAm Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:21 am
@Mark Oliver, He was our best forward when Kopi and Willy went down and a former 30 goal scorer. I just can’t understand putting him below the second line, however it seems to be a popular opinion.
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@TransAm,
Who demotes a 30 goal scorer for someone that hasn’t proven anything? Popular opinion among bloggers, but I think I would like professional opinion. Sounds ludicrous to me.
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duckbasher Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@Robert, Dustin? Bottom 6? NO WAY!
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:32 am
@Mark Oliver,
Dustin Brown is top 6!
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Spanky Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@John, Not if you get some one better
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Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
@Spanky, not going tohappen this off season, so why even talk about it? Besides, what could possibly be wrong witrh Brown? It amazes me that some complain about him as a player….
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:44 am
@Mark Oliver, I’m in total aggreance… And since he was our best forward after the injuries, imagine what a threat we would have with our 3rd line??? Cliffy-Stoll-Brown would be a solid line. Brown wouldn’t have to think about passing too much (which is perfect for him) and Cliffy and Stoll could compliment him, too. That would be a serious net-crashing line with the beef/muscle to scrum it up at the whistle to boot! I think someone/anyone would be cool on our second line as well. Give one of our talented rookies a shot at playing with high-skill/caliber players and see what they can do!
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@Stuart,
A 30 goal scorer entering his prime, who just happens to be your captain, needs to be demoted? Whatever…
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Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:05 am
@John, with our team as it sits right now, I don’t see it as a “demotion” but rather an opportunity to use his skills to make a better 3rd line. Maybe our 3rd line would get more minutes than your average 3rd line around the league. If you’re hung up in what # the line you play on is, then you’re not a professional, and DB is not a lot of things, but he is a professional. I think that would give our team a very solid, 1-2-3 punch. But sure, let’s just say for your emotional sake that we leave DB on the 2nd line… I can already see all the lost opportunites created by DB mishandling the puck, or making those awesome “area” pass which never hit his linemates tape, or the glorious one-on-all moves that totally neglect his linemates leaving them to hang back to cover when the puck starts back the other way…
Put him on the 3rd line and let him go nuts. He can be the offensinve focal point of that line. He can rush the puck up the ice, he can start his moves from the blue line in without any other thoughts of a) crashing the net for a scoring chance or b) chugging around the net and sending up top for a defenseman to take a look and make a pass/shot…
Demotion? NO! Opportunity? yes.
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:07 am
@Stuart, I meant “he can start his moves from the blue line in without any other thoughts other than a) crashing the net for a scoring chance or b) chugging around the net and sending up top for a defenseman to take a look and make a pass/shot…”
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:13 am
@Stuart,
Surely, he’d get less minutes, play with lesser players & therefore get less goals & hits. He’s one the of the better power forwards in the game and at 26 he’s only getting better.
I’ve seen this notion posted on several boards & I just don’t get it – I simply disagree…vehemently! I’m betting Kings brass does too.
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:28 am
@John, also consider what players on the other team he’d be playing against, wouldn’t be their best defensive line would it? Stoll was our second center last year, so Cliffy would be the only “lesser players” that you speak of. And he might get less minutes, but as I mentioned, our 3rd line could see more minutes than every other 3rd in the league. What line was our STOPPER line? couldn’t you see this 3rd line being a great stopper line too??? so many possibilities if people just thought rationally not emotionally. The best 1-2-3 line punch in the league!!!
and, I’d even roll that line out after we score a goal. That might help us not give one up within 3 minutes. Stoll winning a face-off and then if we lose the puck, DB and Cliffy smashing people in the mouth.
But we can agree to disagree.
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:46 am
@John,
OK for arguments sake let’s say you’re right – who is your 2nd right wing?
And I just have to say, IMHO Gagne-Richards-Brown has all the makings of a GREAT line!
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:54 am
@John, and they may very well be, but like I said, I think I would give a promising rookie a chance to play with Gagne-Richards-… I’ve never understood when a team/coach uses a promising, offensively gifted rookie on the 3rd/4th line rather than giving them the chance to play with other gifted offensive players. IMHO one of the MAN boys. I haven’t seen him play, but I’ve heard Holloway’s name mentioned as someone who might be able to be plugged into a high skilled line and succeed…
Who knows, maybe Williams could play with G-R- line and Kopi can ease in a rookie, since Kopi’s wingers were always rotating anyway, and it seemed to not hinder his game too much (or maybe it did and he could’ve been an offensive 100+ pts beast)… just fun thoughts to kick around in a long hot summer…
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
@Stuart,
Well for one, you do it to let that rookie get his feet wet in the NHL first, learn the speed & figure out his game at this level. Top 6 is a lot of pressure to heap on a kid. Look how we’re bringing Cliffy along – it’s working nicely so far & he may end up being a top 6 power forward in this league.
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
@John, while you’re right in that Cliffy MIGHT end up being a top 6, that was never the expectation on him. But a person with offensive expectations is a little different in that you want him to be in a position to succeed, even if it is a lot of expectations. Our top 5, IMHO, is veteran enough to help a “kid” succeed. Solid leadership all around will help that out too.
Nice chatting though, either way, things are looking good for us. I’d rather be arguing/debating our 3rd line that our top 2!!!! It’s good to be a Kings fan!
Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
@John, Stuart’s always been the Brown hater, so take his comments about Brown with a grain of salt….
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Stuart,
Well, for one, we have very few, scoring right wings in the system ready to make the jump to the NHL. Maybe Vey or Toffoli? And secondly, just look at Tyler Sequin – they tried to plug him in at top 6 early & he wilted, from what I’ve heard. So much so, that some in Boston were thinking he was a bust. But then they started mixing him in the lower lines & he began to excell & ended up being one of their best players at times in the playoffs.
Maybe I wouldn’t be opposed to your idea mid-season, ya know.
I just think you can’t rush these kids into top 6 right off the bat. They gotta learn the NHL game & maybe more importantly they have to earn it!
Hahaha SO true – my o my how things have changed around here eh
Puckn-A Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:00 am
@Mark Oliver, Dustin Brown’s heart makes him a top 6 by default, his stats compare with most 1st line RW’s. I just don’t get these odd expectations for Dustin Brown to Gaborik or something. He is one of the best checkers in the league and can score, why reduce his minutes just to make the 3rd line look good on paper?
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
@Mark Oliver, He’s not a top 6 forward. Seriously? He led the entire team in goals last year for cryin out loud. 3 more than Kopi. What more do you want from him to show you that he’s a top 6 forward?
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@Mark Oliver,
I wish there was some way to convince everybody about Dustin Brown. He has been our top point producing right winger every year since 05-06 when Pavol Demitra was the last right wing to outscore Brown, and yet people still insist he’s not a top 6 right winger.
I guess no one except me looks at stats anymore.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
@Dominick, ayyy Dominick, yes stats are wonderful. I wish there was a stat for every shift that resulted in a DB turnover, or better yet, what the % of plays that he actually completed a pass which resulted in a goal on that possession vs % of plays that resulted in 0 passes from him. That would be a stat worth noting. Not so much his goals for.I know chicks dig the long balls, but being able to lay down a sac bunt or go 1st-3rd goes just as far, if not further, to winning hardware…
But this is a dead horse.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
@Stuart,
There are. There provided here http://www.behindthenet.ca/ Look at corsi metrics. By your reasoning at least Brown can get that far. All the other right wingers we’ve have can’t even carry the puck or shoot by comparison. Taking our best right winger and saying he’s not even a 2nd line right winger is absolutely irresponsible.
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
@Dominick, You are definitely smarter than me if you can get what you want out of that site… lol I tried with the last 10 minutes of my lunch and nothing.
But as we’ve done in the past and will do in the future, we can agree to disagree.
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@Stuart,
That does happen from time to time with Brownie – but I think it’s WAY overblown as a big concern. Plus, he’s matured quite a bit over the last 2 seasons & playing with Richards & Gagne will probably elimate that from his game entirely. We can hope, anyways
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
@John, but the thing that stops from going over to Dom’s (and many others’) point of view with re:DB is that it isn’t overblown. It happens a lot and it kills shift time for his line. When he and AK starting clicking for that 4-6 weeks, DB was making that pass that he normally doesn’t. It was great to see, but it wasn’t happening regularly. My only beef, and this is my only beef with DB, is that he doesn’t get the most out of his linemates and too much time is spent on D because he doesn’t make good decisions with the puck. Hopefully he has matured and if that element (the turnover element) is limited then by all means, play him 1st-2nd line minutes all day every day. But if he starts doing the one-man-rush or area passes to the other teams D then not so much. And I do agree with you about playing with Richards might help him because I don’t see Richards busting his ass too many times only to have DB kill offensive production on their shifts with bad passes/turnovers…
GKG
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
@Stuart, Well the next best right winger we have is Williams, and it took Williams a whole season of being healthy (minus the end of course) just to tie Brown. Until you guys can find a right winger who can even generate offense, DB is the best right winger the Kings have had in 5 years.
He’s also drawn more penalties than any NHL player in the last 5 years combined, and hit more people than any right winger over a combined 5 year period than any right winger in the last 20 years. He’s also scored more goals, asists, and points then any right winger for the Kings over the last 5 years combined also.
DB is definately worthy of being at least our (and many teams) #2 right winger inside the top 6.
Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@Stuart, would you even complain on how he picks up the Cup and kisses it??
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@Stuart, now that’s one turnover I couldn’t complain about…
Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
@Dominick, I’m a true and hardened Dustin Brown supporter and have gone to bat for him on this blog more than once….even being called out as his brother!! LOL
I think it just comes down to not being able to please everyone, and everyone has to bitch about something or someone! I’d rather use my criticism for players who deserve it than for the Captain!!
[Reply]
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@Mark Oliver,
Brown scored 28 goals last season and 29 assists, was a +17. Is also the captain. Not a top 6 guy? Seriously? Please stop posting comments Mr. Oliver. Maybe check out the Tennis blog and see what Sharapova is up to.
[Reply]
Clifford and Lewis! Good combo of size, speed, and defensive responsibility. Love Richardson, but he’s such an ideal 4th line center.
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:40 am
@TransAm,
Ultimately, I think you may be right (though I voted differently). A Parse-Richardson-Westgarth 4th line would probably bring a lot of energy & even pot some goals here & there.
[Reply]
Went with Richardson and Clifford.
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Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@daves a mess,
Those are the 2 that make the most sense. Richardson I suspect will be a 4rth liner if we find a 3rd line right with size, but that’s not a knock on Richardson at all.
[Reply]
I’m going with Andrei Loktionov and Tyler Toffoli I liked the way Toffoli played in juniors last year and I think he’s ready for the big jump and Loktionov should be on the roster next year.
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NOT IMPRESSED Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:24 am
@Billy, I agree with Tyler Toffoli, but I voted for Clifford on the LW.
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Puckn-A Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:01 am
@Billy, Lokti has no business being on a checking line, he is made of glass as far as we’ve seen.
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5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
@Billy, Now here is some food for thought…how about Stollie on RW with Loktionov at Center and Parse on LW…and don’t let his hip surgery of last year keep him out of what was a Wing position with Kopi on a promising start of a line. Terry likes Parse and he should…he has size, speed, puck skills and can shoot with accuracy(a rare thing in Hockeywood these days!). He is a responsible player as well. Stollie can play the RW just fine and Lok needs his best shot(which is as a center, not on a wing!). Toffoli is a comer for sure with energy…a “not so dark” horse, just young and raw but a horse for sure! Are Lok’s shoulders ready for prime time though? Need to find out right away!
[Reply]
Clifford-Stoll-Parse
Only if Parse is 100%….Parse has skill, Clifford can do the dirty work in the corners+chip in 10-15 goals.
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rontheking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:29 am
@Cup B4 I Die, That was my first choice too.
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Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
@Cup B4 I Die,
The only reason I’m not agreeing with you is because Cliffy, and Parse are both left wingers who aren’t as effective on the right. If Parse can make that switch, then yes, I’ll go with that.
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5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@Cup B4 I Die, Clifford is a prototype 4th line banger. His scoring skills have to grow some to elevate his overall game to top 9 consistently. If LAKs are Contenders and not Pretenders, then the 3rd line cannot be in flux with youth and “could be’s” or “might be’s” on it. Richardson, Lewis and Clifford have makings of best 4th line in LAKs last 20+ years at least! This line already has good chemistry established. Enough grit with Cliffie and Richie, speed with Trev & Richie, and decent puck skills making them a threat to score on the 2-1-2 forecheck scheme. Trev has plenty of speed for Terry’s F-2 “jump in scheme” to be very effective. Top NHL teams have solid 4th lines to go with skills on top 9. Could see an addition on 3rd line wing spot with a veteran(some still out there on FA board or trade) or stand pat? But no immediate help coming from AHL IMO! Mostly marginal NHL potential down there in Manchester at forward positions! Decent 4th line and banger types but not much else…Amateur forwards group is a very promising crop coming! Excellent depth at Defense and Goaltending throughout system now!
[Reply]
I went with Clifford and Richardson! seems to be the best duo if you ask me. I would line them up as follows
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Richardson
Parse-Lewis-Westgarth
Some might say Parse is not a 4th line LW but i feel we should give him 4th line minutes until he proves he can come through with the offensive skill he is supposed to have and proves he deserves better. This is the line up i would throw out assuming we dont make any more trades and the kids in Man dont jump in a take a spot.
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JMFJ#3 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:36 am
@BrokeKingsFan, I was thinking we do the Red Wings old model of 3 scoring lines and the 4th line being shut down.
Penner, Kopitar, Williams
Gagne, Richards, Brown
Parse, Loktionov, Richardson
Clifford, Stoll, Lewis
Westy-regular Scratch
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:49 am
@JMFJ#3, If Lokti can step up and de-throne Stoll for that 3rd line center postion then that would be awesome. I really dont see it happening but you never know…. having a center with the skill of stoll on your fourth line can never be a bad thing and he can be put out there for facoff purposes with the 3rd if needed and swap out accordingly. I would be hesitant if TM wanted to limit the 4th lines minutes but if we were to roll 4 lines consistantly i wouldnt have a gripe with it.
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John Shaw Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
MFJ#3, The best linemates are to be and to make. Great job. THANKS GKG……GKG.
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5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@JMFJ#3, Red Wings have 4 Threat Lines at all times based on speed and possession. This is not to be confused with a 4th line shut down line, which they do not have! Kings are not a speed team, nor an attacking with speed type roster, so they don’t compare to Wings at all. LA needs to have threats at all 4 lines, but it has to come from the forechecking schemes that TM employs. Possession can come from different sources, playmaking with speed (Wings) or puck denial with hard forecheck (Kings with TM). Top 9 must have skills to be a consistent scoring threat in our system. 4th line is best with more of same, but doable with punishing checkers and physicality. LAKs step up to “Contenders” with 4th line speed and threat potential…Trev, Richie & Cliffie have that potential! Stollie is not a 4th liner or you waste him completely. Put Stollie on RW with Lok at Center & Parse on LW. You have shots(Stoll & Parse), speed (all 3 decent wheels), grit and playmaking skills are there! Not to mention face off wins for possession with the extra center there.
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Harty Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@JMFJ#3, careful with the lines folks, we ned more grit for the long haul and we witnessed last year only those players with toughness will support in the playoffs and when games get tight.
1. Penner, Kopitar, Williams (Penner gets the call as I don’t want another 100 blogs to answer ripping me, hes not the guy though)
2. Gagne, Richards, Brown (this line will end up most nights as our 1st line)
3. Clifford, Stoll, Lewis (Stoll has to stay up the middle if for % of faceoff wins alone)
4. Parse, Richardson, Westgarth (sorry Lokti is just too small, proclaimed that last year and came to truth when the chips were down)
thumbs up and Don Cherry has reported this also in local papers that the Kings need to be tougher to be successful over the entire season
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5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@BrokeKingsFan, Mediocre! Won’t win anything with Westgarth taking a regular shift. He is a spot player, designated fighter type with limited hockey skills! Richardson does not have enough puck skills to be an “every day 3rd liner”. Cliffie has to grow his puck skills to elevate to top 9. We all love Cliffie’s heart, but don’t be blinded by that too long! I love both (Richie & Cliffie) of their grit for 4th line certainly! You waste Parse considerable skills at 4th line and he is not a banger type either.
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Clifford and Parse, who are the next-best at these positions (if not both better than Penner, who has a lot more to prove than either of them).
Richardson plays better at center for the 4th, and to anticipate the next poll, the 4th line should be Loktionov/Holloway-Richardson-someone not westgarth. I just don’t get the whole Lewis thing, guy can’t finish.
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:23 am
@5buckcolonnadeticket,
Lewis is already a great defensive center – he doesn’t need to finish! Plus, he’s still young & a GREAT skater – give him time for his hands to catch up to his feet.
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TransAm Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:29 am
@John, Exactly my thoughts!
Anybody remember this?
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?event=L.A561&hlg=20102011,2,991
Clifford and Lewis as Stoll’s linemates gets my vote!
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rontheking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:22 am
@TransAm,
Wow, using actual evidence to make your case, rather than personal gut-reaction intuition…pretty original…an interesting but far different approach than most would ever attempt. Cudos for taking chances in thinking outside of the box.
TransAm Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@rontheking, Much appreciated.
5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
@John, Now that is hockey talk at its best! Bang on with that analysis of Trev Lewis! He will find his hands with increasing confidence! He has a good shot and nice hockey IQ already…an exceptional 4th line center now! Touche!
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John Shaw Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@5buckcolonnadeticket, I love this line too.Westgarth And Lewis are regular scratch. GKG……GKG….
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Ricardson scored 7 goals in the regular season. I think 4 of them were against Colorado. If Parse is able to play right wing I would put Clifford and Parse. Richardson is either a center or left wing, and I would much rather have Clifford there than him. I wouldn’t rule out Holloway to make the jump to this spot, but would rather see him make the jump to the fourth line with Richardson centering it with Lewis playing right wing. Keep in mind that an injured Parse was still able to put up 4 points in 5 regular season games (1 goal 3 assist, Penner numbers after 19 games with the Kings). I think a Clifford-Stoll-Parse line could do alot of damage.
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Parse seems to be the odd man out now. A year ago the Kings hoped he would be a top 6 winger, due to several reasons and injuries, he’s basically out of the top 6 unless someone gets hurt.
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Doughty99 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:31 am
@kevco, unless Stoll plays RW.
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Sakrates Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
@Doughty99,
I would have a tough time putting stoll at RW because he is so good at faceoffs
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KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:59 am
@kevco, Or Penner looks the same as he did last year. Wouldn’t shock me one bit if Parse took Penner’s spot in the top 6.
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kevco Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@KC23, That would be good for Parse and suck for us as we gave up a bit to get Penner.
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
@kevco,
I read somewhere Penner is in the best shape of his career. Also, it is a contract year and if we are lucky, playing an entire season with Kopi and Williams could spark him. Wishful thinking of course…
5holer Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@kevco, Parse is a poor man’s top 6 forward. LAKs were a poor man’s forward roster last year. That poor man group came and showed up in play offs! Parse is an exceptional 3rd line Winger however. If TM’s rules still apply about injured players, then Parse is NOT odd man out for 3rd line status. Its his to lose as I see it, and he won’t lose it. TM likes his skills and grit..I second the motion with TM!
[Reply]
Parse – Stoll – Clifford
Clifford is pretty much a bigger Simmonds, so that replacement is a no brainer to me. Parse has the potential to be a top 6 if healthy so again, no brainer to me.
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@KingNewfie,
Cliffy’s a left winger. After such a stellar rookie season, I don’t think we’ll force a change on him so early.
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KingNewfie Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@John,
Clifford – Stoll – Parse
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Loktionov & Lewis. I want Stoll to take the draws and then for him to shift to LW and Lokti to center. Stoll only has 1 yr left and someone will have to take over, might as well have lokti learn from stoll. Then if you have Lewis on the RW it adds some responsibility in the D zone.
[Reply]
Clifford & Richardson.
Hopefully all three will be defensively responsible together – the only one I’m not certain on is Richardson. He’s almost a tweener; too good for the 4th, but maybe not good enough defensively for the 3rd. We shall see!
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Doughty99 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:31 am
@John,
Richards & Gagne are terrific defensively, as is Kopitar. Our second line will be very defensively responsible, so the Kings can have a third line with some speed and a little offensive pop along with a responsible 4th line and still be in great shape.
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:57 am
@Doughty99,
Very true! Exciting times in Kingsland
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KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:04 am
@Doughty99, I watch a lot of video of Gagne this weak. He’s not that great defensively imho. He likes to float at the blue line looking for the break out a lot and sometimes before his team gets possesion. Not unlike Penner actually. The good news is if he does that that quick pass which many of our defenseman are good at, he’s got speed to really press a transition attack.
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Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
@KC23,
I wouldn’t mind seeing the Kings transitional game add more stretch passes coming up ice, instead of methodical breakouts all the time. Breakouts are good, but DL made a comment a few weeks back that hit home for me about “the ultimate speed is speed through the puck” and that’s something we lack right now.
Very seldom do you see Kings in behind the defense, looking for that pass, and although there is definately a balance if you add it to your repetoire, right now the Kings don’t even try it.
so im assuming we wont be looking at meittinen?
[Reply]
Clifford – Stoll – Holloway
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I don’t get the Richardson thing. Yes he has the most experience. But from that experience we know there probably won’t be any vast improvement. That being the probability, there is little use in saddling Stoll and Clifford with a “mediocre” performer. I probably wouldn’t qualify him, time to move along.
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:25 am
@anonandonanon,
He’s not mediocre – average maybe, but not mediocre. He skates very well & is quite tenacious for his size. And at $1M or so, quite affordable!
[Reply]
anonandonanon Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:35 am
@John, I need more. mediocre…
Synonyms: common, fair, indifferent, medium, middling, ordinary, passable, run-of-the-mill, run-of-the-mine (or run-of-mine), second-class, second-rate, so-so.
BR 7g… league avg 9g___BR 12a…l avg 13____+/- BR -13…l avg -1.
Clune or Cliche? Langenbrunner? Lokti?
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anonandonanon Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:37 am
@anonandonanon, Most of those goals were in 2 games.
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:49 am
@anonandonanon,
Hahaha you’re kidding yourself if you think those players AREN’T mediocre at this point(except Loktionov & DL probably wants him in the A to get stronger). Richardson is quite versatile & brings a ton of passion. And again, for cheap.
BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@anonandonanon, Richardson brings some serious hustle ansd back checks like a mad man. He is proven as a solid, gritty, and reliable forward who has the potential to change momentum and pot a few here or there. 3rd line material hands down IMO. I would take him or Parse at this point as he is a known entity
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:33 am
Correction…….. I would take him “over” Parse as he is a known entity
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crashin' da net Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:18 am
@BrokeKingsFan, absolutely. Again, how many Kings got the hat trick last season? Richardson and Lewis are speed deamons with passion and skill. Lewis started late but is finding his hands. I like both of these guys alot for this season. And it can be a really good season for us indeed.
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Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:30 am
@anonandonanon, really? Brad Richardson in a “mediocre” performer?? you must be one of those who is still upset that the puck was bouncing and he coulnt get his stick on it in OT in SJ last year. the guy is all heart and has some balls of steel. he probably the most versatile player the kings have, and can play any forward position.
Clifford is so much better than richardson in your opinion…why…because he fights more?
they each scored the same ammount of goals in the regular season (7) and Richardson had a few more assists. Richardson had 2g 3a in playoffs and Clifford had 3g 2a. Richardson is one of the best penalty killers the Kings had last year just behind Zeus. how is Ricahrdson considered “mediocre”?
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anonandonanon Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:38 am
@Sebastian, Check stats above.
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:51 am
@anonandonanon,
And stats prove what for a bottom 6 players?
anonandonanon Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:04 am
@anonandonanon, Proves my point. Below “average” and minus 13. Nice playoffs but 82 games of “meh”.
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:16 am
@anonandonanon,
You may think & wish it does – but you’d be wrong! There’s no stat for passion, hard work, energy & versatility – exactly what you want in a bottom 6 forward!
Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:32 am
@anonandonanon, so by comparison, Kyle Clifford is also “bellow average” and “mediocre”…Clifford was a -10. yet in your original statement you said “there is little use in saddling Stoll and Clifford with a “mediocre” performer”
so in your mind, what makes clifford so much more worthy than richardson, when if all you look at (which seams to be the case with you) is the offensive numbers.
either way, it doesnt matter, you have your opinion, and you are clearly wrong. Richardson is a very valuable asset to the team.
anonandonanon Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:57 am
@anonandonanon, Clifford was a rookie. Improved all year long far and away had the most improvement on the team. Aren’t we a little touchy about a below average player? He was lucky to be one of those bridge players we all lived through. It is time to separate the wheat from the chaff. Sorry, jtwisi. This squad deserves upgrades.
Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@anonandonanon, no, just touchy about a bellow average poster. it really doesnt matter what you think. he was given a qualifying offer and he will be on the team next year.
Not sure about RW, that should be fought out during camp, but Clifford HAS to be the 3rd line LW. He deserves that spot with his play last year, especially in the playoffs.
Rich, would you know what the Developement Camp schedule for next week is yet? Or, when will it be posted if you know? Thanks
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Frolov. He’s due for the post-knee injury seems-overpaid-now-but-will-be-awesome-later deal. 3y/7M.
Simmonds. Our draft picks are going to be such crap after all this winning that the offer sheet move is worth the draft picks. Get him for 5y/13M and Philly can continue to stockpile mediocre picks.
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Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:42 am
@Mitokon5, Frolov signed with KHL team almost 2 months ago.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Alex-Frolov-signs-with-KHL-one-year-after-he-sho?urn=nhl-wp4732
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Mitokon5 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
@Sebastian, think he wouldn’t come back given the chance?
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Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@Mitokon5, you’re not really serious about this are you?? Time to move FORWARD and not look back at the past.
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Clifford stoll toffoli
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I like Clifford (LW) and Stoll (C) together on the third line. I’m a little up in the air on who plays on the other wing. I’d be ok with either Lewis, Richardson, or a prospect who excels in training camp.
Maybe for me, it hinges on whether Loktionov makes the team. If he does, he should center the fourth line, which leaves both Lewis and Richardson available as wingers.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:31 am
@Kostamojen, Its easier for the center man to jump to the wings so i will agree that both Lewis or Richardson slot in there well but I think Lokti should at least be a 3rd line center or should continue to play in the AHL. He is not a 4th line center and center 1-3 are locked up art this point. If Stoll goes down to injury then i say give Lokti a go but until then i say keep him in Man. to develop
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I picked Lokti & Parse but I think Stoll should be a face-off taking winger next year, and Lokti should be center.
Parse-Lokti-Stoll.
4th line: Clifford-Lewis-Richardson
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TransAm Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:37 am
@Doughty99, I like both Parse and Lokti, but I just don’t see either of them getting much playing time next year because from what I remember, TM has already stated that both need top 6 minutes to be successful. I agree about Lokti, but I think Parse would look ok on the third line.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:40 am
@Doughty99, Intersting take! The thing that i dont like about it is either Richardson or Lewis would have to ride pine the games that TM feels we need Westy and that just doesnt go over with me to well regardless of the need for an enforcer.
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One thing we know with Murray is that he will try every possible combination over the course of the season.
As someone else so brilliantly suggested in another thread, perhaps he could even try a goalie at wing…that would give Bernier some extra playing time, and he could crash the opponents’ net in all of his pads in spectacular fashion as well as relative safety….
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I think Clifford and Stoll are set on the 3rd line. Then there are 5 players, Richardson, Parse, Lewis, Loktionov, Westgarth to rotate in 4 positions. Richardson, Lewis, and Westgarth all played well in the playoffs and probably deserve a chance next season. So I’m guessing the opening night lineup will be:
Clifford-Stoll-Parse
Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth
With lots of rotations based on need, health, and performance.
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Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@smv, Parse and Clifford are both LW
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smv Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
@Player-X, Parse is right handed so maybe he can play either wing. Clifford’s toughness is key for the third line so to play LW Parse will need beat out Gagne or Penner.
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I really like Cliffy, Lewis and Richardson as a line. I feel like it would bring a lot of speed and a some grit as well. Or maybe even Lokti centering Cliffy and Richardson.
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crashin' da net Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:22 am
@KCH12, I do like this line though….but as a 4th? Cliffy would need to rotate with Westy.
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KCH12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:36 am
@crashin’ da net, Unless theres a rookie ready enough for the big club. I think Westy should only be put in the line up if were playing a big gritty team. Other than that i dont really see any use for him. Although he did impress me in the San Jose series. He really stepped up i believe
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I don’t think parse will make the team this year
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Belexes Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:54 am
@Kwan,
Careful now, you might be labeled as a “HATER”
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tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@Belexes, who would ever say that? Whats your pic in the corner of BTW? is that Jesus or something?
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@Kwan, the verdict is still out on that one, thats for sure
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KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:09 am
@Kwan, Your guess is as good as anyones. I think he’ll actually press Penner for a top 6 spot, but like I said … your guess is as good as anyones including mine.
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Michael J. Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Kwan,
I would be very surprised if Parse did not make the team. He’s got a lot of upside and would do better to be an “extra” forward than Lokti. If it comes down to a tough decision Lokti should play every day in Manchester and Parse be the healthy scratch in LA.
Parse needs a good long look, if not for the Kings then for his trade value. A productive first half could see him move to a team needing a goal scorer.
[Reply]
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@Michael J.,
Move to a team needing a goal scorer? We don’t need goal scorers? If he has a good first half, stays healthy and puts the puck in the net, why would we trade him?
[Reply]
I like Stoll centering Lewis (rw) and Clifford (lw). Lewis was good along the boards this year, and had some nifty setups on the second line. Stoll is the sniper. And Clifford is the banger and goes to the front hard. All are defensively responsible and strong unlike Loktionov (responsible but weak) or Parse. It allows Loktionov to play a more natural position on the 4th line. I envision the 4th line of Parse/Westgarth, Loktionov, Richardson. Then they could definitely roll out four lines.
[Reply]
Vino Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 12:00 am
Are you a mindreader? You think just same way than I.
3rd line: Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
4th line: Richardson-Loktionov-Westgarth/Parse
[Reply]
how about Parse on LW3 and Holloway as RW3?
[Reply]
puddle Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@tornado12, Agree.
[Reply]
I’d like to see Toffoli have a strong camp and stick.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:02 am
@Bluecoconuts, how about vey?
[Reply]
Doughty_Franchise Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:22 am
@tornado12,
I’m stoked to see what Vey can do. In my opinion, he’s one of our best prospects
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
@Doughty_Franchise, you arent the only one that shares that opinion
puck73 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:35 am
@tornado12, Obviously Vey is someone to keep an eye on as well because he has put up big numbers. Another guy I like alot is Robbie Czarnik. Everytime I have watched this guy in training camps, he has really showed speed and skill.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:55 am
@puck73, I have a question. Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH talent? I mean, where are we going to fit all these guys in? Hopefully, the timing will all work out.
Bluecoconuts Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
@tornado12, Or him. I say Toffoli now, because he’s someone that just scores no matter what. If anyone can develop his NHL game and start lighting the lamp, it’s him. I would be happy with either one though.
[Reply]
I was going to go with Brad Richards and Kovalchuk, but then I remembered the hockey gods blessed us and allowed those deals to go to east coast teams who have paid way too much. Then I was hoping for Gretz and Luc, but alas, those same hockey gods ensured that not even those those 2 greats could play forever. Then I was going to vote for Greene and Mitchell due to their scoring prowess from last year and then I remembered we were not looking for scoring from this line. But then it hit me, we need this line to kill some time and hold onto the puck, so I went with Lewis and Clifford. Stoll wins the face-offs, Lewis skates around with the puck, and Clifford hits opposing players when they try to take the puck. As soon as we trade DD for Stamkos and find a way to get Parise (I don’t know how, I just want to see it happen and since we have traded Gretz and Schenn in our history, everyone’s on the table), I will change my mind again. Can’t wait for the season to start.
[Reply]
Scot Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
@DesertKing,
Parise-Stoll-Stamkos?
I could live with that.
Plus, that would enable us to trade Kopitar, Brown, and Jack Johnson for Sidney Crosby!
[Reply]
Let’s face it we have a ton of options, and all of them look pretty darn good. This team is emerging. I voted for Ritchie and Clifford but probably doesn’t matter with TM’s line juggling tendencies.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:02 am
@Belexes, why didnt you vote for Parse?
[Reply]
Belexes Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:07 am
@tornado12,
He may well be there, it’s gonna be a battle in training camp that’s for sure. I hope that the competition brings out the best in all the boys!
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@Belexes, thats what I like to hear! isnt it great to be a king these days? with all the talent we have at all levels of our club, the competition will be fierce. even the established veterans will have to work their tails off as to not be surplanted by a younger, hungrier player. I dont think I have ever been more excited for the season to start. Just pure Awsome!
kingshockeyguy Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:20 am
@Belexes, That would mean that player would have to play out of Position. Clifford, Parse, and Richardson are all LWers (Richardson also can play center).
[Reply]
You should have added another category to the poll “Sign another player”. I like the guys that we have on the roster, but we should be able to sign Frolov or Langenbrunner. Imagine a third line of Frolov, Stoll, and say Clifford. If Frolov and Stoll could both be 15-15 or 20-20 guys, we should be looking at a long playoff run.
[Reply]
istilmiszhitnik Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:27 am
@JDBiGC, Didn’t Frolov sign with a KHL team?
[Reply]
I would still put Parse on the top line unless either Gagne, or Penner show better chemistry. It will be interesting to see what happens in training camp and the exhibition games. I personally feel this whole line combo thing will be a work in progress until the chemistry surfaces sometime during the season..Cant wait ta see what happens !
[Reply]
rontheking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:11 am
@puck73, Yes, it feels like an embarrassment of riches, doesn’t it? It’s going to be a lot of fun to see how it sorts itself out….
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:12 am
@puck73, Parse should be one of the more interesting players to watch. Holloway should be as well.
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:16 am
@KC23, I know you like Holloway alot. From what I have seen in his junior and AHL career, he seems to have a knack for scoring big goals. I am really looking forward to see him compete in training camp and exhibition games.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@puck73, If you look at his developement cycle he is due right about now. He’s paid his Manchester dues and has been healthy with a knack for scoring big goals. That being said he still has to prove it on the ice in the pre-season. We’ll see.
kingshockeyguy Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:18 am
@puck73, The thing is, Parse has had chances and what has he really shown?
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:22 am
@kingshockeyguy, When Parse has had the chance he has done very well with the exception of late last year coming off major hip surgery. I give him a pass on that and actually give him credit for tryiing to step up when the team needed him most with our injuries. He was just asking too much of himself trying that coming off such a serious injury.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:24 am
@kingshockeyguy, how about 28 points in 64 games (almost a point every other game). Also as Quisp has said before, some incredibly high number of production per time on ice. I wish he were here to back me up with his stats.
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:32 am
@tornado12, I agree. Also, Parse has always been a plus player, and when your playing for TM you had better be fairly responsible defensively otherwise you will be riding pine.
rontheking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:37 am
@kingshockeyguy,
Yeah, being hurt and requiring surgery is just a lame excuse for not showing up to prepared to compete!
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
@kingshockeyguy,
Nearly half a point per game playing on third and fourth lines.
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@puck73,
If I recall correctly, didn’t Parse have the best points per minute on the ice ratio for 2009-2010 – according to one of Quisp’s matrix’s? And that was playing on third and fourth lines…
That being said, this guy has decent speed, is quick on the puck, finds open ice, has a nose foe the net and a pretty quick release. His “compete” is way above anywhere Purcell ever was. This guy is not Jimmy Carson (when he came back in ’93). Given the opportunity, say third line LW, he could put up 20 goals. I think he will be the King’s sleeper this year.
[Reply]
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
@puck73,
I really hope everyone who licks the ground Parse walks on is right. I really do… I would be happy to eat my words. What are the odds he is going to light the lamp more than the current top 6? Look at the stats… it’s very rare a player blows up with little NHL experience. How many NHL goals does Parse have?
[Reply]
TM changes his lineup as long as they don’t score a goal for 2 games,so it doesn’t matter.
off topic, if both Doughty and Stamkos are asking for 7 millions a year, I’d rather to sign Stamkos.
I think Doughty asks for too much.
5-5.5mil – reasonable
6 mil – acceptable.
6.5 for 10 years – little bit too much but still acceptable because of the length of the contract.
0ver 6.5 – definitely too much.
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:13 am
@zdfun, I agree with these assessments on Doughty. IMO, he still needs to pay his dues before he gets the huge payday.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:26 am
@puck73, Ask yourself this. What would of DD gone for as a UFA? Do you think Brad Richards is more valuable than DD? Kolvabucks? How about Keith?
DD is worth at least 6.5 because that is what almost any team with cap space would gladly give him and probably more.
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:49 am
@KC23, I dont disagree with you that some other team would give him 6 million or more per year. I guess I just believe that a young guy like Doughty shouldnt be making as much as a proven veteran like Chara or Pronger.
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
@puck73, Yeah, but you can play the “shouldn’t be making” game for a lot of guys who got what they “shouldn’t be making”.
I think I know what DD and his agent are up to though. The Preds unloaded some cap space on Toronto and gave away a good defensive prospect. What the Preds GM is doing is trying to get Weber signed so he can also get Suter and Rinne signed.
DD’s agent is waiting to see what Weber is going to get so he can have some added leverage. That is what I think the DD hold up is. In waiting they also might just get an offer sheet that gets DD …
… wait for it
… wait for it
… “shouldn’t be getting”.
[Reply]
jacob Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@KC23, in my opinion , rinne is overrated big time – he plays on a great defensive oriented team ……….. hes big and often clumbsy …. just throw pucks at his feet and get him scrambling ……. luongo is similar
BringBackKingston Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@puck73, what about Kopitar? he signed his deal after his second season. At that point he hadn’t proven anything. he didn’t really know how to play defense. he wasn’t in top shape. but he got paid based on his potential. he has since lived up to the value of the contract, but it could have turned into an albatross deal for the kings. that’s the gamble with a highly skilled young player who has a very promising future.
[Reply]
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@puck73,
He will get what he wants… fact of the matter is that he is young and still acting young. Think Doughty or Doughnuts is going to show up for training camp? Giving him his huge payday could hurt his future. I hope he has a bounce back year and kicks some ars!
[Reply]
crashin' da net Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:24 am
@zdfun, agree.
[Reply]
DBking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@zdfun, I still think 12 years 80 million would be acceptable to both sides.
cap hit 6.66M
[Reply]
zdfun Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@DBking, I don’t think he’ll sign a 12yrs contract because he’ll be 33 at that time, it’s hard to get another big contract. If he get a 10 years contract, he’ll be 31, like Brad Richards, he still can get a good contract at that age.
[Reply]
I have preferences on what combinations I’d like to see, however, TM will play musical lines so I’ll wait until then.
[Reply]
Scot Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:23 am
@Goring 19,
Haha, good point.
It’s silly for anyone to even spend time debating this, it’s not going to make a difference in what the team does, and we don’t even know if this is the actual team yet.
If a 3rd/4th Liner is signed, say, this afternoon, this entire thread is moot.
[Reply]
what about the other guy from philly nikolay zherdev and young also…
[Reply]
John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
@Raul503,
He plays whenever & how he wants. No thanks!
[Reply]
I think we can all agree after his playoff performance the LW3 spot belongs to Clifford. I still think RW3 will be addressed soon. I don’t think your going to see players play out of position like most you have listed Rich (I.E. Richardson, Lokti, Parse). Maybe they move Lewis up there but he really doesn’t provide any offense and I really don’t think he has the offense skill level as young Clifford or Stoll. But Lewis can play a good shutdown role and play the right side if he needs to.
I don’t think Lokti makes the team this year. He isn’t a bottom 6 player and he just doesn’t fit right now. Maybe Cliche gets a look to play 4th line center if they put Lewis on the right side. Maybe Clune is called up to play that high energy role on the RW3 spot. Remember clune 2 seasons ago was great and very responsible in his own end.
The player that really confuses me right now is Parse. I just don’t see any room for him. Your not going to play him on LW3 (Clifford deserves that IMO) and your not going to play him on LW4 (That’s richardsons spot). So is Parse a healthy scratch?
To answer the poll question… Clifford-Stoll-*And someone we are not expecting is my guess
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:37 am
@kingshockeyguy, I don’t think we’ll sign anyone over approaching 2 mil for RW without DD contract locked up.
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@kingshockeyguy, I agree with everything except the resulting conclusion you make about Richardson as LW on the 4th line Richardson can play LW or center, so if Lewis goes with Stoll 4th center can be Richardson, then you put Parse with him. Two guys same size, speedy, not getting too many minutes, plus two other things: 1, Murray likes to double shift the hottest right wing, subbing him into Westgarth’s spot, and eitherr Brown or Williams would fit well with Richardson and Parse, and 2, Parse can see PP time on the second unit, making up for decreased ice time from being on the 4th line.
As a note, as I posted above in reply to someone else, Richardson has not played RW in a checking position, his time as a RW was as a scorer. That is his least favorable position, he is a center that plays LW and can play RW if needed to.
[Reply]
Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
Lewis stepped up big time at the end of last year, and he was surprisingly one of our few impact players in the playoffs. Our team needs him to get 3rd line minutes
[Reply]
we agree to disagree.
[Reply]
I have to go with Cliff and Parse. Unless Lokionov lights its up in camp I dont think he’s gonna make the team. He needs to get alot stronger, (and lets not forget he’s coming off surgery), we are pretty deep at center right now. Kop, BR, Stoll, Lewis/Richardson so there is no need to rush him or try to turn him into a winger. I think Stoll has another year left. Maybe he can replace Stoll next year if he’s good enough, or Lewis if we choose to bring Stoll back.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@pesus, Cliff and Parse are both LW.
[Reply]
I wish we would pursue Jamie Lagenbrunner
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:56 am
@Subby, You have made that very clear. Unfortunately for you, not only have the Kings not pursued him, but neither have the other teams in the NHL. Example, I like Jason Arnott but guess what ? Nobody has signed him either. What that tells you and me is this…they obviously arent a huge commodity at the moment.
[Reply]
deadcatbounce Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
@puck73, I think one reason why teams aren’t falling over themselves to sign Jamie or Jason is that they have no legs left.
[Reply]
jacob Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@deadcatbounce, yes if the kings were in need of a center and no one else was available , then u can take a chance on old arnot ….the kings are fine at center so obviously no arnot …….. but people please stop with the langenbrunner talk ……………. the guy is completely finished …… too old now …. no legs , nothing to offer ………. the guy had 9 goals last year , and has been on the rapid decline for a couple years now
the only move left to make is get rid of penner if we can and replace with parse or somebody via trade
Sakrates Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
@Subby,
The Kings have 12 million in cap left to re-sign Doughty, Martinez, Lewis, and Richie. Langenbrunner is not worth signing to take up any more cap space, especially since he didn’t do much in Dallas last year.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
@Subby, Dunno about Jaime. When he left NJ they got a lot better and when he came to Dallas they got a lot worse worse.
[Reply]
From helenes twitter
Dean Lombardi on re-signing Drew Doughty: “I am getting the feeling on Drew that unfortunately this could take a while.” More on blog soon
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 11:41 am
@KH, sad news if this is accurate.
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@KH, someone needs to inform him and his agent that he’s a RFA that isn’t arbitration eligible yet. He should not be making the same as guys that have played 7 to 8 years in this league. Weber and Duncan Keith’s salaries should be higher than Drew’s because they have more experience, played better than him last year, and had more barginning power when they negotiated their deals. They also have had more than one really good year, something Drew has not.
[Reply]
friarking Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@KH, Seeing that makes me respect JJ alot more for the way he handled things.
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@friarking,
Yes, my tune toward JJ has turned 180 degrees. And I thought it was he that would pull the same thing DD is doing…
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
@KH, DD probably waiting to see what Weber will get.
[Reply]
kevco Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@KH, Lets hope it doesnt turn in to another Patrick O’ Sullivan. However, that ended up working out good for the Kings.
[Reply]
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
@KH,
If DD is actually demanding to be the highest paid player on the Kings, which is the rumor, I’m not so sure I want to keep him. That is real cocky for a 21 year old kid who had a mediocre season for someone of his talent and shows up to camp out of shape and over weight every year.
If he had the dedication and discipline, I’d say give him whatever he wants… to me it just sounds petty like Kovulsuck wanting to be the highest paid player.
I understand it’s a business but it makes me think less of him. Not that he or anyone gives a rat’s ars what I think!
[Reply]
I think your 3rd and 4th lines will be interchangeable.
Since I don’t believe the 3rd line will be used as a checking line in the way that Zus/Simmer were used. I think he’ll use his top 2 lines to go head to head with the best lines in the league.
The 3rd and 4th lines will be energy lines with playing time coming down to who’s playing the best.
[Reply]
At the start of the year, Penner-Kopitar-Williams, Gagne-Richards-Brown, Clifford-Stoll-Parse, Richardson-Lewis-Westgarth. Then once Fraser’s healthy, Penner-Kopitar-Williams, Gagne-Richards-Brown, Clifford-Stoll-Lewis, Richardson-Fraser-Westgarth. So to answer the question, at the start of the year, you have Clifford and Parse with Stoll, then once Fraser’s back and Parse is already a -10 because of how horrible he is defensively, he goes to the press box and you move Lewis up to Stoll’s right and put Fraser as the 4th line center.
[Reply]
PW Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@Zamboni, I think Westgarth will be a healthy scratch most nights and they will go with Loki. With no camp and no time with anyone on the team Fraser will be inched into the lineup but will probably be scratched a lot if Loki can show us what he did before he got hurt last year.
[Reply]
Zamboni Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@PW, Murray loves to have Westgarth in the lineup, and Loktionov is kind of useless unless he’s one of your top 3 centers, which will be Kopi, Richie, Stoll, so I’m guessing he’s going to Manchester.
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@Zamboni,
What makes you think that Parse is “horrible” at defense?
2008-2009 Manchester Monarchs 74 15 24 39 6
2009-2010 Kings 59 11 13 24 13
2009-2010 Manchester Monarchs 14 4 11 15 11
2010-2011 Kings 5 1 3 4 5
Maybe the numbers lie???
[Reply]
Zamboni Reply:
July 6th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@Michael J., Have you watched him play?
[Reply]
Parse and richie for sure depending on camp
Williams kopi brown
Penner Richards gagne
Parse stoll Richardson
Westgarth Lewis Clifford
How I picture it will see pretty solid 4 lines
[Reply]
boxtime17 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
@Jacko,
Looks good except that Gagne and Clifford will be on the left side..
Penner Kopi Brown
Gagne Richards Williams (LA Flyer line)
Parse Stoll Richardson
Clifford Lewis/Lokti Westgarth/Lokti
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@Jacko, I don’t think so. Williams and Brown are both RW’s. I know DB has played a little LW before, but that was before we had 2 legitimate top 6 LW’s. Penner and Gagne are those 2 LW’s, so I don’t see either one of them playing on RW.
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
@Jacko,
Williams is a RW
Gagne is a RW
Westgarth is a RW
Clifford is a LW
[Reply]
First off, Doughty needs to be a little more humble with his fiscal aspirations until we get a cup, then he can ask for more money than god. For now, Kopi is the rain maker.
Regarding the lines, we just had a major shift in personell and a good coach will be able to identify emerging chemistry in camp. Even then we know what TM is going to do anyway so the whole line thing is superfluos.
Watched some of the replay between sabres and flyers over the weekend with a chance to study MR. He has great energy and seems a perfect fit for the LA Kings right now.
Very happy with our team right now and looking forward to october!
[Reply]
Scot Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
@jess,
Cheers Jess!
I am also watching/recording any Flyers game I can from last year just to watch Mike Richards!
We think alike!
(And actually, before last season, I was watching the Penguins playoff games from the year before to get a feel for what we’d be getting with Ponikarovsky…) yikes.
[Reply]
jess Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@Scot,
Right on Scot,
Yeah was trying to imagine MR with Brown on the same line. Talk about a one-two punch!
[Reply]
I noticed that some of you liked this article I wrote about Mike Richards. I am intervjuing a swedish reporter who is covering Philadelphia Flyers.
Remember, this is a translated version by google translate, and it sometimes suck.
For instance, Mike does NOT have gambling problems
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.svenskafans.com/nhl/losangeles/Vem-ar-Mike-Richards-408517.aspx&ei=JxoTTtioB4_usgby0bXwDg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.svenskafans.com/nhl/losangeles/Vem-ar-Mike-Richards-408517.aspx%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1613%26bih%3D809%26prmd%3Divns
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
@MacSwede,
The article was a little hard to follow. I often had to read it in sections quite a few times to follow what was being said. One thing I was interested in was the claim that maybe Richards was partying alot, and that there was a division in the Philly locker room. Their was a group of 4 of them that enjoyed the nightlife maybe a little too much, and that all 4 were gone. Pretty heavy accusations if true.
I guess the obvious question is, did I read it right? Or was the translation off?
[Reply]
just saw this on twitter…sucks!!
@helenenothelenHelene Elliott
Dean Lombardi on re-signing Drew Doughty: “I am getting the feeling on Drew that unfortunately this could take a while.” More on blog soon
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
@Levi,
“Good things come to those who wait” I know, I know, we have been waitning for the Cup for more than 40 years, but it will come to LA!!
[Reply]
txkingsfan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
@Levi, Helene Elliott hates the Kings – she’s such a Duck homer its sick.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
@Levi,
Maybe she was just being sarcastic to the fact that it has already been a while, and pointing out the obvious.
[Reply]
penn-kopi-brown (scoring)
gagne-richards-willi (scoring)
cliffy-stoll-lewis (defense)
parse-lokti-richardson (skill/energy)
this would be my guess
i would also like to see cliffy with lokti, i remeber some shifts where they played like they were possesed
let the shuffling begin
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
@grega11, exactly what I thought except Westgarth for RW4, Richardson centering the 4th and Lokti doing shoulder reps in the training facility.
[Reply]
if there is any line that TM will exercise his juggling antics it will be the 3rd line. there are so many possibilities there that i imagine any combination that is mentioned here will be tried at some point during the season.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
@Dave, have u considered changing your handle to something more unique? I enjoy readin your perspective, but am never sure if its you or not…this is you right?
[Reply]
The consensus seems to be:
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Gagne-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
Parse-Richardson-Lokti/Westy
Doughty-Mitchell
Scuderi-Johnson
Martinez-Greene
Drewiskie/Hickey/Voynov
I have a feeling we may see Gagne playing a lot with Kopitar on the first line. Either way our Top 6 is much improved. You have the potential of two lines that could score 200-250 goals combined. Throw in some more speed and grit. I think the team has put itself in a top 4 playoff spot.
[Reply]
Clifford on the left, and either Richardson or a rookie on the right. Fourth line should have Lewis at center.
[Reply]
TransAm Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@Bill M., Agree with Clifford on the left, but would like to see Lewis on the right with Richardson centering the 4th. Lewis has yet to show any proficiency in the face-off circle and showed some chemistry with Clifford near the end of the season. His defense is stellar for a forward of his age, and his passing was adequate. With Lewis backchecking, Stoll on the boards and clifford driving to the net, it seems like we would have a very difficult line third line to play against. With Richardson, we know exactly what we’re getting. A gritty center who’s great at getting to loose pucks but somewhat offensively challenged. He makes one of the best 4th line centers in the league. His experience and relentless play would make a great example for any rookies that TM decides to put at his wings.
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
@TransAm, great post, agree totally
[Reply]
Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@TransAm,
Absolutely!!! Discussion over!
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Why is the the organization so quiet on Doughty? I guess TB is with Stamkos too… Hmmm
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nykingsfan just had a good point. The 3rd and 4th lines are interchangable. depending on whats needed at the time and how those individuals are performing you could mix and match as needed. Any line combo consisting of Stoll, Richardson, Clifford, Lewis, Parse, Westy, ect. are good 3rd or 4th lines no matter how you decide to slice the pie.
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I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but if Loktionov can win a spot on the opening roster like last year, why not have him center the third line, with Parse, and Stoll on his wings. Richardson, Lewis, & Cliffy can be on the fourth line, and we have one heck of a deep line up. Any thoughts??
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Either Cliffy or Parse and Richie. Might be a matter of swapping Cliffy and Parse between the third and fourth lines, and if necessary, the bench, along with Westgarth.
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I was thinking about a possible trade over the weekend, regarding a possible swap between our enigmatic Penner, and another enigmatic player in Semin..
“The Capitals acquired Brouwer in a trade with the Chicago Blackhawks last week, and dealt goaltender Semyon Varlamov to the Colorado Avalanche on Friday.
“We will be able to resign Karl Alzner and Troy Brouwer so everyone who is amped up, please try to relax just a bit,” Capitals owner Ted Leonsis wrote on his blog, Ted’s Take, on Saturday, as quoted by the Post. “We will look to make some trades in the offseason maybe even sign another free agent. We will continue to look at all of our options. We may not be able to get anything done. We may be able to do something. Time will tell.”
It has been widely speculated that the Capitals could complete a significant move this summer, possibly as early as this coming week.
Various reports have linked the Capitals to actively shopping winger Alexander Semin, who has one-year left on his contract with a cap hit of $6.7 million.
The Capitals currently have just over $1 million in available cap space. Teams are allowed to go 10-percent over the cap during the off-season, but must fall within the cap by the start of the regular-season.”
-How far fetched does a Semin for Penner swap sound? Semin seems to have fallen out of favor in Wash., and Penner isn’t exactly the coach’s favorite here. Semin makes over 2 million dollars more, and his contract ends at the same time as Penner’s. Washington gets some cap relief in return, and also gets back a winger so they aren’t left with a huge hole in their line-up. Both players get a change of scenery, we pick up a guy who can score forty goals. Both players have similar questions at times with their desire, but hey if it doesn’t work out at the end of the year, no harm cause it would be at least a push with Penner. Not saying the caps would make that deal, cause they’d probably still need a little more cap space, but I think it might just be the right kind of deal left to be made for this team. Just a thought…
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Cifford – Lotkionov – Stoll
Now you have speed all around, creativity in the center and a shooter and a net crasher on the wings. Stoll can step in to take as many face offs as they’d like. Stoll is a good player, but has no creativity and that is needed in a center. As a wing he can use his speed and shot and can still take face offs.
Am I the only one that thinks this is a good idea?
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@UpperV,
Stoll will not be put on the wing. Not saying it wouldn’t work, but it will never happen.
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regulate Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@UpperV,
Yes, you are the only one.
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Isn’t it great that as Kings fans we can have this debate and all of theoptions in it arepretty good? Looking at the past, this dilema wold have reminded us of the song lyrics “Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.”
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Scot Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@DesertKing,
Makes me think of Michael Madsen dancing, and cutting a guy’s ear off in Reservoir Dogs every time I hear that.
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helenenothelen Helene Elliott
Dean Lombardi on re-signing Drew Doughty: “I am getting the feeling on Drew that unfortunately this could take a while.” More on blog soon
What are you doing Doughty?
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
@Sebastian,
Playing hard ball? I really don’t like Don Meehan. Didn’t he represent Blake too?
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BringBackKingston Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@FKA PakiFro, if I’m not mistaken, he represented POS as well.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@BringBackKingston,
Crap. We know how that ended up. The last place I want Doughty to be is on DL’s s-list. First Cammy, then POS. I hope Doughty doesnt get the same fate (being moved).
txkingsfan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
@FKA PakiFro, Pat Brisson represented Blake – Brisson is one of Luc’s oldest friends, they played juniors together
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@txkingsfan,
Thanks. I couldn’t remember if it was Brisson or Meehan. Either way, I hope Doughty signs soon. He’s capable of single handedly winning games, as we’ve seen over the past two years (moreso the former of the two). I’d pay up if I was Deano already. Let him focus on the offseason training. I’d love for him to get Kopi’s deal, but if he wants 7.25, let him have it. He’s too good to not have around. No one can replace him, not even Stamkos. The offense looks pretty balanced as it is, so just getting this guy to stay around would be the best deal the Kings can make going forward. I’d prefer a shorter deal though, like 3 or 4 years as opposed to 10 or 12 like Carter and Richards.
jess Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@Sebastian,
IMO if doughty is passionate about LAK and the sport then he should be putting the onus of performance on himself i.e. putting his own money where his mouth is.
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Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@jess, yeah, like who does that?? C’mon, please be realistic. Are you willing to give back some of your salary to your company for putting your own money where your mouth is?
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jess Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@Shotongoal,
Sorry you misunderstood me. As a matter of fact, the rocket hit downtown LA.
He should not be asking for a ridiculous sum but rather something modest or the same as it was lazt year until –I don’t know like maybe the team gets out of the first round for starters?
Thanks for your reply
I stillhat Booth will be a King by the Trade Deadline and to be Stoll
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with Stoll
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Penner – Kopitar – Williams (++ Scoring, + Defense)
Gagne – Richards – Brown (++ Scoring, + Defense)
Parse – Stoll – Rookie (+ Scoring, + Defense, ++ Faceoffs)
Clifford – Lewis – Richardson (+Defense, – Faceoffs)
If someone can teach Lewis how to win faceoffs, this is a pretty nice lineup. 3 scoring lines, everyone can play D.
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tornado12 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@MindGeyser, thats exactly the way i would like to see it! who is that rookie? Holloway? Lokti? another clifford like surprise?
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I don’t think we should be done with the FA market, but I suspect we are.
I loved what Cliffy and Richie were doing at the end of the year and think they should be kept together.
I had voted for Penner with Kopi and I think that will happen, but last year sure has me sort of sick to my stomach about him being our top line LW…Can he really be the best we can muster?
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What if you end up with a Selanne or better?
Then what do you do with Brown? Why should
the third line be considered a demotion if it’s
producing? Isn’t that the point to roll your lines over?
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John Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@Spanky,
Whenever a player, especially one of Dustin Brown’s caliber, gets less ice time it IS considered a demotion…ask Jarret Stoll. And just because TM ideally wants to roll 4 lines does not mean all 4 will get equal ice time.
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TransAm Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
@Spanky,
Dustin Brown, at this point in his career, is arguably a better option than todays Selanne. Last year, he was fifth in the league in penalties drawn per 60 minutes and third in the league in hits. Pair this with guys that can light the lamp and you open up all kinds of ice for them. Not to mention, he’s averaged 27 goals and 29 assists over the past 4 seasons while also averaging 80.5 games played per those seasons. How about the way he stepped up when Kopi and Willy went down? This guy should be playing as many 5 on 5 minutes as possible with our best players, not on the third line.
My sources:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=41&s=46&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&f7=30-&c=0+1+3+5+2+4+6+7+8+20+10+41+42+43+44+45+46
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20112ALLAASAll&sort=hits&viewName=rtssPlayerStats
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puddle Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
@TransAm, Agreed. Brown might be the most under-appreciated King on the roster. I seriously believe that if we blanked out his name and put his stats next to this year’s FA crop, every Brown critic would be begging for the guy as a perfect top 6 fit. Then when you factor in his low cap hit, his ability to draw penalties, his responsible defense, his physical play, his leadership and his age, Brownie is a total steal. I think we have a tendency to over-criticize the guys we see on a daily basis and over-romanticize those who we do not.
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@puddle,
Totally agree. He doesn’t get the respect he deserves. He is also a leader off the ice. Classy kid.
Shotongoal Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@Spanky, Selanne or better…..when do you think that’s going to happen??? Reminder, this is NOT NHL11, its real life!!!
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Dominick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
@Shotongoal, Agree. 1rst I think a “Selanne or better” has to reveal himself as available, before you can ask what if a “Selanne or better”.
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As long as we can shoot for the moon
Parise – Kopitar – Williams
Gagne – Richards – Selanne
Penner – Stoll – Brown
Clifford – Richardson – Lewis
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jess Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@Spanky, where is stamkos and booth:)
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DesertKing Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
@jess,
he said the moon, not Heaven
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Spanky Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
@jess, Stamkos already signed and NJ needs cap space
thanks to kovalsuck. You don’t need Westgarth in line up with
Tuebert as your extra defenseman.
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DesertKing Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@Spanky,
Are you sure about Stamkos? I just checked the NHL and TB websites and they didn’t have any mention of it?
Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@Spanky, Tuebert? Colton Tuebert? im consufed?
Nick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
@Spanky, Selanne will never sign with the Kings as much as I wouldnt want him too.. Let him be a duck so brown and richards can rock him.
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King Alex Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@Spanky, There is no way in God’s green earth that Selanne becomes a King. He is a Duck through & through. Dustin Brown is a hockey stud and a top 6 on any team in the league and I for one am thankful he is a King & our captain!
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jess Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@King Alex,
here here!
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King Alex Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@jess, Thanks Jess! I do not want to have to get rid of my Dustin Brown All Star Jersey! I did have a good laugh at DB being placed on 3rd & 4th lines though……
honestly, I like Stoll with Penner… because I like Kopitar with Loktionov
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@Marc Nathan,
Loki and Kopi are centers! Why does everyone just put names in a hat and pull them out. Only reason positions were shifted last year was because of our injuries and horrible LW choices.
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Marc Nathan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
@Robert, yeah, that’s what I do…
Listen, the Kings have never been 100% sold on Loktionov at center ice this early in his career (at the NHL level.) Promise you, he’ll be playing some (if not primarily) wing on this team.
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I don’t see Westgarth in the line up at all.. He will be a healthy scratch until we play Anaheim or more heavier fit teams.
Penner-Kopi-Williams
Gagne-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Richardson
Parse-Lewis-Rookie Vey/Lokti
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Tom Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
@Nick, Agree with everything except Penner. With his his past performances(poor attitude, lack of hustle and agression) with Anaheim, Edmonton and LA, I wouldnt even think about having him on the first line. Kopi and Williams would be up and down the ice three times before his lazy a** even made it to the blueline. The guy has to earn that spot!
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Nick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
@Tom, How about this..
Gagne-Kopi-Williams
Richardson/Lotki-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Penner
Parse-Lewis-Vey
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King Alex Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@Tom, Don’t worry. TM will set the lines & all spots will be earned. If Penner is not up to par, he will find himself in the bottom 6.
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Sebastian Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@Nick, although i agree with you, Murray does not, and seems to insist on playing Westgarth. he played 56 games last year, i dont see that dropping off. I actually really liked his game during the playoffs. he was a more effective player on the forecheck than he had been all regular season. hope he improves because for being such a big guy, he really is lacking the skill it takes to make devastating checks in the offensive zone and separating the dman from the puck.
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Nick Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@Sebastian, I dont know about this year.. I just see it changing with the rookies that are coming up. We have clifford who will drop the gloves. We need some more goals.
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@Nick,
Clifford needs to keep the gloves on. He got rocked too much last year. We need him for his hockey skills.
I don’t think I’m gonna get a good night’s sleep until this Doughty thing is dealt with. It just sucks that it’s building up all this resentment towards him.
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KingMe20 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
@FiG17,
Keith Yandle just re-signed in Phoenix: 5 years, $26.25M. I wonder how that deal is used in the negotiations for Doughty. I think he’s going to take a similar term, but closer to $30M.
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@KingMe20,
If Doughty signs a 3 or 4 year deal, he will be in his prime for negotiating a longer big money contract into his old age. I guess if he keeps eating the doughnuts though, this could be his huge payday. Or he will sell himself short…
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Has Shea Weber/Nashville signed? I think Weber, at this point, is worth a little more than DD. Maybe setting Weber’s salary will help get DD done.
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King Alex Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@RolePlayer, You hit the nail on the head imo. Once Shea Weber signs, the defensive market should be set allowing DD & DL to be able to determine DD’s true market value. The Stamkos signing is not as much a factor as the Weber signing to set DD’s market value.
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Cliff and richie with stoll woud be great but someone above me said lokti centerin cliff and stoll, that would be very interesting.
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Sign Antti Miettinen. Put him with Parse and Stoll.
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fsd1 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@laikaloco, Please don’t, go with what we have.
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this is how i see Murray “penciling in” the lines….not necessarily how i would do it, but how i see coach doing it…
Penner – Kopitar – Williams
Gagne – Richards – Brown
Clifford – Stoll – Richardson
Parse – Lewis – Westgarth / Loktionov
then he will play musical chairs with the lines and they may look like this…
Gagne – Kopitar – Brown
Penner – Richards – Williams
Parse – Stoll – Loktionov
Clifford – Lewis – Richardson
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not sure if anyone posted yet (not about to read through 300 posts) but Yandle signed today. cap hit at $5.3M. Doughty should be in that range, maybe a bit more since he’s younger. but it seems the # has been set for guys in his productivity. Yandle & Keith are pretty comparable to Doughty.
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DLB Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@Dave, good point on comparables. Hopefully that will help. The one thing I’d add is that Doughty, being younger, seems to have far more upside.
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BigIslandKingsFan Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
@DLB, So, it still seems like DD’s cap hit should be in the range of $5.5-$6 mil/year or so.
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KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
@BigIslandKingsFan, In DL’s dreams. I’m betting 6.75 or so.
Overall comment, I’ve read each blog above and very insightful and informed comments for the large part. However bottom line is “its not our decision” right TM?? But it is fun to comment for sure.
Whoever said Southern California was not knowledged on hockey is dead wrong, these comments are better then the Hockey News articles!!
Well done and again all comments are defended and very much supported.
Everyone knows I’m a big Clifford supporter. So my opinion is bias big time.
Harty
Ayr, Ontario
Canada
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Hmmm…sounds like the trade winds are blowing again through the front office. Boy, when Deano wants to get someone on his team, he really doesn’t let go until the deal is done.
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Robert Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@Capt Jam,
Trade winds?? Elaborate on that one…
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KC23 Reply:
July 5th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
@Capt Jam, What trade winds?
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Lewis should be our third line center. Trade Stoll, Hickey, for Hemsky. Stoll would need be traded because of cap issues of having Hemsky, and for not having Doughty signed yet.Lewis did played very well at the end of the season and playoffs. Lewis is good in the corners, has speed, and can stay on top of the circles in the offensive of zone too.
Clifford-Lewis-Brown
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I’d put Loktionov at center and let Stoll be one of his wings. Stoll can still take the draws (the one area Loktionov still needs work), until Loktionov improves.
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Put Lewis on left because he’s a speedy defensive forward. We need to go get a big defensive beast to play on right wing to replace the defensive size of Poni and Dzus. They were a very important part of our top flight defense last year.
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Went with Richardson and Lewis because I think that Clifford may find himself on the second line.
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“I am getting the feeling on Drew that unfortunately this could take a while. As we just saw this past week free agency produces a frenzy for players at all levels. We must be judicious about not getting into this market for our own players. Therefore it is critical with Drew that the dollars reflect a fair rate of return regarding the term of the contract. We must be prepared to do what it takes to get it right.”
Lombardi also said the Kings would match any offer sheet Doughty might sign with another team. It’s unlikely any team would make an offer of a magnitude that would entice Doughty away, because paying him that much money would leave that team little room to pay the support players necessary to build a winner. Also, Doughty grew up a Kings fan.
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A lot of people that believe Parse’s talents will be “wasted” on the fourth line should remember that he can get powerplay minutes. If he starts producing there and shows he’s got the skill needed to play in a larger role, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.
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I am lovin the work of our front office this offseason. As a lifetime kings fan, I couldn’t ask for more. We got offense, theres no doubt about it. The only problem now is our defense. Doughty will be signed theres no doubt about it, but I am feeling like we should get rid of bernier for an all star defensemen. We always have been and are still missing one of those
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I liked the chemistry I saw w/kopi and lokti last year. I wouldn’t mind seeing more of it this year w/brown on rw. Williams, Richards and Gagne 2nd line. Penner, Stoll and Parse 3rd line. Clifford, Richardson and Lewis 4th line. I believe this gives us offensive skill on all 4 lines.
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Imagine what a stout line we would have w/ Clifford-Stol-Brown.
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SIZE. SI-I-I-IZE!!!
And where is our muscle?
We don’t have any Sean Thorntons on our squad. At center and at both wings we’ve lost heft.
Why are people flanking Stoll with Richie and Parse? Why are they even thinking of putting Loki on the ice? Mice! Not even mice. Bacteria!
Each line requires at least one pig. A sour-tempered 230-lb SOB who cares less about putting the puck in the net than he does about putting The Enemy in traction.
An ugly, bitter truth. We need team toughness. Talent and speed are not enough.
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