Some folks have already watched and analyzed these, but for those who haven’t, here’s a series of video interviews with Dean Lombardi, looking both back and forward, discussing expectations for the past season, the roster and, specifically, Dustin Penner. Enjoy!
Wow. He stopped just short of saying that the Penner acquisition was a mistake.
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Cricket Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@EJ,
I didn’t pick up on that. I heard him challenging a player. He also said that if Penner could fit in with the culture and play to his potential, than the sky’s the limit. I don’t believe anyone that was close to being seen as a mistake would get such praise.
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Different subject, but what’s up with this?: “After Dallas gets taken care of, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman will then focus on the situations in New Jersey and Los Angeles. The equity fund that owns 49 percent of the Devils reportedly wants out and a buyer is being sought. And rumors that Kings majority owner Philip Anschutz also wants to sell simply won’t go away.”
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Kristie Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@RolePlayer, Can you please post the link to this article?
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Deano pulling no punches,,and I like it, syaing what all of us have been saying, we know what he’s capable of doing, but he sure as hell wasn’t last seasn (Penner), telling him to go to work, come to camp in shape, and put in the effort or you won’t be playing, I wonder if he was as staight forward with Doughty’s see-food,”Tommy Lasorda” diet as well?
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Buster Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 8:27 pm
@Ravens,
Don’t forget the ever so popular Don Koharski Donut Diet as well.
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39scars Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@Buster, That guy sucked
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Kingsfanone Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@39scars,
I used to yell at Koharski every game he worked. His calls baffled & angered me a lot.
i LIKE that about DL. for sure for sure. He doesn’t mince words. When he said ‘or it’s not gonna work’….. if Penner is serious he will take heed. It’s not like he’s gotta learn algebra or study film making or learn to paint. He just has to work! And I also very much appreciated how Dean inferred that if he doesn’t then it becomes a poor influence on the younger players.
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Oh, btw Rich, the site has really sort of struggled at times recently to download. Especially last night. I have a iMac that’s pretty strong. So don’t know if anyone else has had an issue with it.
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Minnesota Kings Fan Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 am
@number 6,
I’ve had the same issue. I have had to “refresh” several times to get it to load at times, but not since the season ended.
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IwantTheCup Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:18 pm
@number 6, I’ve had issues lately too. I thought it was just me
glad it’s not lol
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Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:51 pm
@IwantTheCup,
I had issues before, and thought the same thing. I would say “maybe I had a settings set wrong”, then go through everyone one at a time. Glad to see (not that i enjoy seeing others have trouble) that it wasn’t just me.
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Poorman Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 5:50 am
@Dominck, Dominick, That was incredible that you Called my radio show! Good talking with you dude. I hope I hear from you again!
FKA PakiFro Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@number 6, I think the servers are out golfing…
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Mikey Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@FKA PakiFro, I have an Imac 7 for film editing, so you know the thing is a beast.. i couldn’t take the loading time either last night.
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number 6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@FKA PakiFro,
Thanks for the feedback guys. Yep, that’s what happens when you go out in the first round. Time to break out the clubs and set the server on memory – hey, just kidding Rich
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DL is correct in talking about a team’s core. The Kings need a top flight second line center in order to compete for the Cup. Lokti, Schenn? Maybe but it’s doubtful that either one is quite ready to be outstanding this coming season.
The Penner deal was the right one to make but he has to play to his potential. It’s not DL’s fault that he under performed.
In watching Vancouver in the finals it’s clear the Kings do not currently have the team speed to match up against them or Chicago. The King have to get faster. Smyth and Green are dinosaurs in the current NHL. Speed and mobility are the name of the game now, and of course the commitment to play hard every shift. Smyth and Green are warriors but they need to be fazed out for players who can play more than one zone at a time. Get more speed in the lineup DL if not, the Kings will never win the Cup!
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Dave Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 9:24 am
@Crown Royal, i like what you are saying about DL. it was the right move but the player didn’t play up to his potential. to me it says a lot about the culture in Edmonton if Penner can come here mid-year and not be in shape. if he wasn’t asked to play 200 feet in Edmonton he’s not going to be able to do it here right away. i don’t see any way Penner doesn’t work this summer. he knows it’s the last year of his contract and he’s seen what TM will do if he doesn’t like your effort.
i agree about a #2 center but i don’t see how DL can make that happen this year unless he trades Smyth by sweetening the pot with Schenn and then use the Smyth money to sign Richards. i wouldn’t do that as i’d rather develop Schenn than go for the quick fix. if DL does go after Richards it might say something about his faith in Schenn.
with Schenn and Loktionov coming and Handzus leaving that will help the team speed. Greene doesn’t effect team speed since he’s a stay-at-home d-man. this year’s team will be faster and the 12-13 team will be even more so.
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Helvetica Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@Dave, Your point about “not being asked to play 200 ft.” in Edmonton is especially poignant. I’m tired of people looking at ex-king’s players or recent acquisitions (like Penner) and making comments like “TM’s system strangles offense players” etc. Of course a player that can focus solely on offense will put up better numbers. I think TM made a comment earlier in the season to the effect of him not being so concerned about an individual putting up certain number son offense. What he is concerned about is everyone playing a responsible 2-way game. I think in a number of recent instances, people are looking primarily at a players offensive stats and ignoring the players responsibilities on defense. It requires that our players play and work to the top of their game. If they aren’t willing to do the work to be physically fit enough to skate the entire ice, then they won’t perform. Ultimately, DL and TM want players that are willing to work hard to reach their maximum potential rather than sit back and rely on pure athleticism.
As for Green, i think he plays solid enough D and demonstrates the type of work ethic that justifies keeping him on the team and i wouldn’t be happy to see him go. I think he’s the type of guy that pushes everyone else around him to be better and brings enough poise to the locker room that he adds some of the intangibles you don’t necessarily see on the ice.
Sorry, i hope that didn’t come off as argumentative or anything because i actually agree with what you are saying. I just wanted to touch on some of your points.
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Dave Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Helvetica, yep – that’s the deal. it’s easy to pile on with Penner but he had a lot of things going against him. coming from a system where he wasn’t asked to play 200 feet and only point up goals. then he gets here with a different system where they want him to cover a lot of ice and he’s not physically prepared. he does ok to start as he’s on a line with Kopi who can cover him since he’s so good defensively. then Kopi goes down and not only does Penner lose his offensive catalyst but he also loses the guy that covers up for him defensively. it was a worst case scenario for Penner.
now, i get that folks want to see him compete more and i don’t disagree with that. he does need to use his body more. and if he doesn’t come to camp ready to go then i will be all over him. but there’s much more to things than meets the eye.
scepin Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 7:52 pm
@Helvetica, All coaches expect their players to play hard, to be 2 way responsible, and do the right kind of work. That’s a given. You may be tired of all the comments about TM’s system, etc., but the truth is that his system is old, boring and not long-term successful, i.e., capable of winning the CUP. If he was so damn good then his brother would be calling and I haven’t heard that happening.
Osaka Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@Dave, A play for Richards would be great for the Kings and Schenn. We are really in good shape cap wise, we could fit Richards in without much problem. If we got Richards Stoll would be moved and his 3.6 cap hit. If we keep Stoll for his last year we play Schenn in the AHL for the next year to save the 3 mil cap hit. Green is making a 2.9 cap hit so if we move him too there is 6 mil in cap space. Dean did say the top 4 D are a part of the core so Green is expendable. Richards is ideal because he can also play LW so say 3 years from now and Schenn is ready to play C2 Richards can play on the left side. With a cap hit under 7 mil Richards can work, couple years at 8, 7,6,5.5
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Dave Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 1:21 am
@Osaka, i don’t think DL would want to move Greene. if he could move Stoll then i could see going after Richards. Richards is good on draws (not as good as Stoll but still pretty good) so we wouldn’t miss Stoll that much. and i think someone would take Stoll given his year last year and what he brings to a team and he’s only got one year left on his deal.
but Greene provides a ton in the locker room and i don’t think DL wants to give that up. he even said he moved Teubert because he was so similar to Greene.
with the 3.6 from stoll, 4 from handzus and 3.2 from Poni plus the cap going up DL might find enough room if Doughty doesn’t try and take him to the bank. simmonds probably played his way out of a bigger contract this year so that should save a little.
this year would be the tough year – 2012-13 wouldn’t be an issue with Smyth coming off the books.
tuan jim Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 2:01 am
@Dave,
Moving Stoll makes no sense whatever. He plays 5-on-5, PP, and PK. While his assist stats went down this past season — not entirely his fault, as the term “assist” indicates — his goal production went up. He was a powerful weapon in shoot-outs at a time when getting that extra point was absolutely essential to get us into the playoffs. He hits, he plays the entire ice, he stays healthy, and — oh, yeah — he’s far and away our best face-off man.
There’s just too much he brings to the team. And he’s a character guy on top of it. You need a better reason to lose this kind of player than just to create space for some youngsters who have yet to prove themselves.
Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 7:52 am
@tuan jim,
exactly My thoughts on Stoll. I still don’t understand how people see him as expendable, when he’s currently heading into his prime years. The guy is absolutely under appreciated by too many Kingsfans, who should be celebrating what we have with Stoll.
The whole “we pay too much for him”, but want to replace him with a 5 or 6 million dollar player instead, is a contradiction. So is “he’s too old”. One can argue that he misses the net too much on the power play, but I say he shouldn’t be at the point to begin with, but in the high slot looking for onetimers to increase accuracy.
I think he’s due to have a break out year and he will surprise alot of people.
Dave Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
@tuan jim – i agree that Stoll is valuable. but if DL can somehow convince Richards to sign here he could be moved. i would love to keep Stoll as a 3rd center but he makes too much to stay if Richards signs. and that would be the only way i would be OK with moving Stoll.
Richards is fantastic on the point on the power play, he’s a good face off man and we have other guys that can step in and kill penalties.
the positives he would bring would far outweigh the negatives of losing Stoll. now, if DL could somehow move Smyth instead that would be preferred as Stoll would be a fantastic #3 center, but that is asking too much even from DL.
CB14 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
@Dave, My thoughts exactly. You only move Stoll if you sign Richards.
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 2:05 am
@Dave and @tuan Jim,
I love Green and I love Stoll, but to get something you have to give something. I know Brad is a free agent but we need to make cap room. It would be great if DD signs a reasonble 1 year deal and waits for next year to get the big contract when we have cap space. Like I said I like Stoll but he is overpaid. Your saying he is good at faceoffs, pp, and pk. Agree. Plays with a lot of heart. But you also just descibed Eric Belanger who made $750,000 scoring only 3 fewer points.
tuan jim Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 3:06 am
@Osaka,
I’ve always liked Belanger. But Stoll is bigger, younger, more versatile, and scores more.
Would you trade Stoll for Belanger — even-up — just to shed Stoll’s cap hit? Please.
One of the premier deals DL made was swapping Lubo for Greene and Stoll.
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 4:40 am
@tuan jim,
You don’t need to sell me on Stoll, I like the guy. I think he is a great player. Maybe most underated player by the fans. It is a fact though he is overpaid. I like Belanger but I would much rather have Stoll so no I wouldn’t trade him straight up for cap space. If we were tarding Stoll in my hypothetical it was only to clear room for Richards. Stoll is great but Richards would be a big upgrade. If we moved Stoll since it is for cap space it would probably be for prospects or draft picks.
I agree Dean is a great GM and he has made some good moves, if he moved Stoll it takes nothing away from the transaction. He mentioned in the video 7 players as the core and the only 2 forwards were the centers. He then mentioned Sakic/Forsberg and Madano/Nieuwendyk as examples. Stoll is not in that league. Kopi/Richards are IMO. Remember Dallas traded a young Jerome Iginla to get Nieuwendyk. Since the trade Dallas won the cup and Calgary hasn’t.
tuan jim Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
@Osaka,
Nieuwendyk was fabulous, no denying that.
But the first season he came to the Stars they missed the playoffs entirely. The Stanley Cup didn’t come until after they acquired guys like Zubov, Sydor, Belfour, and Brett Hull.
I know Richards is terrific. But Stoll is worth every nickel he’s paid. If we dump him in the expectation that Richards is the final piece of the puzzle, we’re just gonna discover we have another gap — a bi-i-ig gap — that has to be filled.
tuan jim Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
@Osaka,
By the way, if Brayden Schenn becomes a starter, his cap-hit will be about $500,000 less than Stoll’s.
Would you unload him — like Dallas traded Iginla — to be able to get Richards?
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@tuan jim, No I wouldn’t trade Schenn just to open cap space. I would play him in the AHL for one year. After the one year we would have plenty of cap space.
Dave Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
@Osaka, it probably isn’t going to matter as Richards is going to get $7M+/year and DL can’t give him that. sure, it would be nice to, but he has to pay Doughty. sadly, it’s a year off. if it was next year i think he might spend that kind of money, but i don’t see it happening this year unless by some sort of miracle DL can move Smyth.
Kopitar/Richards would be the best 1/2 center combination in the league. if Richards wants to win he would find a way to sign here. i have more hope with Richards to make the right decision than i did with Kovalchuk. i knew he would go for the money wherever it came from. i want to believe that Richards wants another ring and will take a little better deal to get one. and i think Richards is the kind of guy that DL would pay to get here. we’ll see. i’d like to see DL make an offer to get exclusive rights if it doesn’t cost him too much.
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 8:52 pm
@Dave, I like your thinking Dave. Agree with everything you say. Hey it is the summer, all we have are what ifs. We can speculate because the Kings are in such a good possition.
number 6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 9:57 am
@Crown Royal,
Have you been reading my posts for the last year? I’d gladly turn them all in to have one that was as concise and says it all as yours! Can I just copy and paste your post and have my moniker on it?
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERY WORD. Every single one. BUT I do still like Smyth for the time being as he’s such a warrior and a pro. Great teacher for the young ones. If he was the only one on the roster like that then that works. But you add up Zues, Smyth, Greene, and I believe there is somewhere in there at least one or two (Westgarth for example) that don’t motor and you have almost 20% of your roster at slo mo speed. That’s just too much in this nhl.
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Crown Royal Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 10:46 am
@number 6,
Yeah, I’ve noticed several times you’ve brought up the team speed issue. In fact, I think you were the first to post about it quite a long time ago.
I go back an forth on Smyth as I appreciate his effort and sometimes timely goals around the net. He’s also a good passer. I think he’s just too much of a liabilty on the back check where he takes too many penalties and gets caught up ice by being deep in the offensive zone without the speed to recover.
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number 6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@ Crown Royal
Crown, I have to give credit where credit is due. Before the draft where we selected Schenn, Marcus Parjaarvi was available. Variable said in one thread ‘speed kills’. That started it all. Then I Really took notice of it. The second part was as follows: being in ny I was watching the Isles feed of their trip to LA. This was not last season but the prior. The Isles commentators said essentially (so this is before the Vanc series), this Kings team is good, but the team speed isn’t there and I think that’s gonna hold them back. I had already been watching….. but then I Really Really watched carefully and watched the speed and fluidity of the better teams and – well it just seemed so clear to me.
Crown Royal Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 6:22 pm
@Number6
Yeah, in 92-93 when we got to the finals there was considerable speed on that team. Granato, Sandstrom, Donnelly, Millen and Coffee before he was traded for Carson. Gretzky wasn’t the fastest player but he always pushed the tempo up which created mistakes. Interesting to note the first four players I mentioned had been New York Rangers.
Adding Martinez and Lewis helped this season but there needs to be more speed throughout the lineup. I think DL had that in mind when he signed Kaunisto (plus his size) and tried to bring Fransson over. Czarnik is a pretty good skater and Kozun. Voynov and Hickey are mobile and Muzzin is a bit stiff in the knees but isn’t a bad skater either.
Forbert looks mobile as well. I think more of the speed needs to come from the forwards and DL needs to work that angle pretty hard.
garry Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 10:11 am
@Crown Royal, I felt from the middle of the season, Smyth was so slow it became painful to watch. You have a big problem with this one DL. In spite of his popularity, If he cannot be traded then go the waiver route. Stoll is not a 2nd. line center and we have plenty in the system for 3rd line center. Okay, what do we do DL?
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“That was made clear that we have to get on the same page” that conversation I’m sure was very interesting. I sure hope Penner takes that advice/demand seriously. It’s a shame, because you know he’s capable of being so much better. I guess it is all about attitude, discipline, focus and several other tangibles. I really do want to see Penner do well, if he does what the Kings expect of him, he’d be a force with Kopi out there. Somehow I suspect he will do what Deano and the Kings staff request or it will come down to a very short stay here in L.A.
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puck73 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 9:58 am
@Goring 19, nice post, agree.
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PaulHB Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 10:57 am
@Goring 19, Unfortunately I think your final statement is going to be the correct one. Yes, Penner has loads of talent and when he was a Duck he was very good. But since then he’s only had one reputation: That he’s a lazy under achiever.
Everyone’s saying it was the right move to acquire Penner. I disagree. It would have been the right move if Penner had played up to his potential. Can’t blame that on Lombardi you say? Even with Penner’s reputation? I think you can.
Everyone also forgets that at best Penner was the Kings #3 target leading up to the deadline behind Brad Richards and Ales Hemsky. When they couldn’t get those guys they traded for Penner.
I’m completely in agreement that I hope Penner wakes up and comes to camp ready to be a #1 line player but until I see it I believe it’s much more likely that he’ll be part of some sort of trade over the summer.
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FKA PakiFro Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@PaulHB,
Hasn’t he scored 20-30 goals every year since he left ANA? Was he known as being lazy? Yep. But a lazy guy who scores 20-30 goals is a good deal for Teubert (not that impressive) and weak first rounder. If you light a small fire, perhaps he pushes 35 goals playing with Kopi. I think the risk was worth it considering the reward we might receive. Part of the reason Lombardi stockpiled prospects was to use them as trade bait..and thats exactly what he did. Not every trade works right away or at all. But I dont think you can fault Deano for trying.
And just want to add this in for good measure..Teubert was hardly impressive in any rookie camp or training camp. He was coming around this year, from what I’ve read, but do you really want two Matt Greenes on one team? I’d rather have Muzzin, who’s just as big and strong, and looks like a better all around defender.
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number 6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@FKA PakiFro,
See I sort of don’t agree. First of all he didn’t break the 20 goal mark at least once in there. Also, you’ve gotta look at overall team chemistry. If you let’s say have this team with faster younger players in place of Zues and Smyth and Greener, then your point is well taken. But with those guys (lack of speed) Plus the laissez faire laissez glide attitude of Penner, mixed in with the rest….. I think you’ve gotta look at it like any recipe. It’s just not a good blend. You know, great meal, healthy but bland…. or whatever analogy you wish to make.
FKA PakiFro Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 12:10 am
@FKA PakiFro,
23, 17, 32, 21
Those were his goal totals in Edmonton. And I disagree. He totally fits the mold. Big guy with skill.
Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:00 pm
@Goring 19,
I feel the same way about Penner. I see the potential, as does Dean, in him. I like how he compared Penner and Kopi, with Penner playing to his potential, as another legion of Doom line. That is exactly what I envisioned when we traded for him. Hasn’t worked out at all so far, but the Potential is still there, waiting to be unleashed.
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39scars Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:37 pm
@Goring 19, Atlanta is going to get a space filler
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Maybe if they explained things to Whenner in terms of ping-pong since that seems to interest him. Hit the ball past the guy wearing the funny mask and you get a point. When someone wants to take the ball away from you, push them into the wall. When you get out of shape, you can’t get to the ball. If you don’t make an effort, you will always lose and have to keep standing on the sideline waitig for your next turn. If you continue to lose, they won’t let you play anymore. If you don’t play anymore, no one gives you a paycheck and your wife finds someone else who will put in the effort. Last but not least, to be successful at ping-pong, you need to move your feet. OMG, I just qouted TM!!!
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Stuart Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 9:49 am
@DesertKing, don’t forget, play with a “heavy” paddle
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number 6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 9:59 am
@Stuart,
Stuart….. who writes your material?
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Stuart Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 10:21 am
@number 6, I’ll be here all week (and then some)…
LOL
plus I really like ping-pong too.
DesertKing Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@number 6,
I am glad that Stuart is here all week and then some. That will really help to kill some time until the next season starts. I wonder if he knows those guys from the Hangover movies?
Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:26 pm
@Stuart,
Make sure your playing “the right way”, with your paddle on “the defensive side”, and good “paddle on ball” technique.
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number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 6:31 am
@Dominick,
Dom, love your hockey comments, but sometimes it was best just the first time around. There’s a guy who works for my mom who has a clever amazing sense of humor. Then when he says something and I’m cracking up, he follows it up with another line and it sort of kills off the first one.
number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 6:32 am
@Dominick,
btw, I’m being light hearted in case that didn’t come across
The Legion of Doom line! Man i miss the old days of hockey when they had cool manes for lines. These days most coaches fumble lines too much.
Lombardi is not beating around the bush here, im sure they spent a lot of time talking to Penner and telling him he was not good enough. I hope he takes that personally and trains his ass of and comes ready to play.
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number 6 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 9:59 am
@Sebastian,
Yes, really cool manes… like the mullet, the buzz cut, and long on top short on the sides.
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Sebastian Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 10:03 am
@number 6, jerk. haha
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Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@number 6, lol!
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Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@Sebastian,
I don’t think DL is saying he’s not good enough, because he’s identified Penner as a guy who cares, and has the talent. He just wants him to understand the commitment it takes to be successful, and get with the program. I think DL was more inferring that Penner can’t just coast, he’s got to put the work in away from the game too. I think if he can do those things his natural athleticism will take over.
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In Penner’s case I can see that all the losing in Edmonton over the last few years can lead to an attitude of going thru the motions.
It is easier to be the best player on a losing team then one on a winning team in which everyone has talent and has stepped their play to the next level.
I remember when a lot of people thought Frovof was a better player than Kopitar while the Kings were losing but as the team changed and expectations were raised, Kopitar took his game to higher level while Frolov seemed to accept his status quo and got left behind.
I do hope that Penner has done a lot of soul searching this off season and comes back next season ready top compete every night. We all know he has the talent. Maybe being around his good friend Matt Greene again will help.
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CupRun2012 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 10:59 am
@JWR, I agree! If you’re an “elite” player, you don’t let your defensive responsibility affect your offensive output.
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How can anyone not like this GM? He’s honest, candid, to the point and accountable.
I don’t think the Kings have ever been taken seriously – even when Gretzky was here. There was this stigma attached to the Kings that they were lightweights and pretenders. That stigma has changed thanks to Lombardi and Murray. This past season all the players struggled (youngsters and veterans alike) because now they were not taken so lightly by other teams. Their desire to make the playoffs again really proved that they are on the right path when as Lombardi points out in seasons past they most probably would have folded. They don’t have all of the components yet, but psychologically and emotionally, they are very close. That culture of #winning has taken hold.
As for Penner, Lombardi is doing the right thing; challenging him to rise to his potential. It will be interesting to see if Penner, after several years of languishing on a mediocre team with low expectations, can grab the bull by the horns and become a force again.
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KC23 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 11:19 am
@dMan, Good post and I agree 100%. I do not yet subscribe to the “TM system is the problem” theory. IMHO TM just hasn’t had the talent at the forward position to make “opening it up” a wise option. That being said, TM will have more talent at forward to begin this year than he had last year so he will have more opportunity to try and open it up. Wether it works out or not remains to be seen.
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I think Penner can do any worse then he did when he became a King. So yes Kings will say he doing better this new season. But we should say is we need the Penner from the Ducks days and that will never happen and TM will not let him play that way.
THe only way Penner is going to do close to his Duck season days is TM let the players play 2 way hockey to open things up for Penner.
Penner goes into Oct in the best shape he has ever been since his Ducks days.
Even DL trys to blame Penner for his faults, I think TM has a lot to do with that too…
Yes, if the Kings want to be champs they need speed and bring in that young talent coming up and let them learn, even if the Kings bearly make the playoffs doing the youth movement.
Talent we have in Mancheater this coming year is like haveing the best team not in the NHL. The youth ls the most talented team and if we just stick with our core and bring in the youth in 2 years we could be in the finals.
[Reply]
Sammuch Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 11:45 am
@Sammuch, TM is still a problem if he does not open up his system, so maybe three, Post TM days
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dMan Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:07 pm
@Sammuch, so Penner had a reputation for a lackadaisical work ethic prior to coming to the Kings, yet it’s still Murray’s fault. Of course.
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Sammuch Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@dMan, Its not just Penner its other players too! Penner only makes it worse…
[Reply]
fsd1 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 pm
@Sammuch, no matter how many times you blame TM doesn’t make the point real. Penner has to work hard this off season and play to his potential, thats it. If he doesn’t he is gone by trade and if he scores 30 goals somewhere else there will be people posting that it is tm’s fault. Come on people!
Sammuch Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@Sammuch, do not get upset! Its just my opinon and we are all fans, free to form are own opinon on this blog thats the fun of it all we all, to learn from each other its fun!
TM will have to prove me wrong and others who belive what I belive and those who belive what you belive, so lets just have fun with it and at the end of next season we can make fun of each other, take care my fellow King fan…
39scars Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@Sammuch, My toilet is clogged. It must b TMs system
Sammuch Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
@Sammuch, LOL funny!
KING LOPEZ Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 10:37 am
@dMan, Very ture
[Reply]
I love this guy! How can anyone hate on DL? He’s straightforward and candid in his assessments.
I really believe we are finally on the right track in building a team that will be a force in the league for years to come. The future looks bright. So proud to be a Kings fan right now. The only thing that will make me feel prouder is when we finally win our first cup. GO KINGS GO!!!!!
[Reply]
I like how Dean spends a lot of time and care to build the culture of the team. It’s not just about the talent, it’s about the culture that everyone buys into and helps to create all at the same time. I think this is why Dustin Brown has been a great Captain…talk about work ethic, in shape, and compete level! I’m gonna say it, I’m a Dean fan. As a business owner, I seriously love watching this guy and how he builds. Keep building it Dean!
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:41 pm
@MadMatt, I love listening to the soothing sounds of Dean Lombardi. Matter a fact, I wish they would have put him on CNN to break down the Bin Laden killing, I think he would have made it even more interesting…lol
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Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:17 pm
@puck73, If he did, can he use his famous top secret charts, or would that threaten national security.
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Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:42 pm
@MadMatt, If you build it, they will come.
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Seeing on how we missed Kopi’s D so much, you think any east coast voters will watch with a closer eye when it comes time to vote for the Selke??? Obviously his D is as good as his O.
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Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:46 pm
@Stuart, Yea, but he’s on the west coast, and worse yet, he’s in California. If he was in Motreal, or Detroit he’d of won it by now.
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puck73 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Stuart, TM has really helped Kopitar become one of the best 2 way centers in the game and he is only 23 ! Cant imagine how good he might be at 27.
[Reply]
38 days and counting…let the bidding begin…I hope
[Reply]
wideleft Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:07 pm
@wideleft, Oops! 28 days
[Reply]
OFF TOPIC::: Again:::
I watched the replay of game one on the NHL network…
They showed the HNIC feed instead of NBC feed..
I cannot believe how much better the game was broadcasted…
Of course it is Canada and they have been at it a LONG time..
Every aspect of the game was superior..The analysis and intermission..
Now we might hear from the Don Cherry haters, but he is a blast….
I will watch the replay again if shown and i suggest you check it out…
It was like watching an entirely different game…IMHO…
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 2:25 pm
@SLIM,
Ha ha, I don’t hate Don Cherry. I hate the retailers who sold him his clothes, back in the 60′s. Don can be enjoyable to watch. He’s kind of like the Canadian version of Wally George.
[Reply]
16,005 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@Dominick,
John Madden comments in Wally George clothing.
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number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 6:33 am
@Dominick,
Can you imagine if he had dressed like that when he was behind the boston bench?
btw, i read his autobiography and it was great.
[Reply]
It’s refreshing to hear someone like DL in the front office of an organization. You usually get sound bites, cliches and deflections. DL gives you honest, brutal answers and takes ownership of his own mistakes. Not to mention that I’m happy with his work thus far and his plan for the future. He’s not only building future talent, he’s building future LEADERS by having them learn the right way under responsible, professional veterans. That’s why it’s so critical that Penner get on board with his fitness and his attitude. These young kids will have to be the responsible veterans some day, and you pick up habits when you’re young. One bad apple can ruin the bunch.
[Reply]
I like how everyone (for the most part) is very supportive of DL. I have to say that he’s far and away the best GM we’ve ever had. Even though every move hasn’t been perfect, by and large he does have such a great feel for the essential elements of the game and building a team.
[Reply]
New topic: Any truth to the rumors, as reported on THN.com about Anschutz wanting to sell the Kings?
I know it’s only a rumor, although the report also talks about a possible sale of the Devils.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@Steve W, there is a rumor about once a year about him wanting to sell the team. Its never true (apparently). But, from my understanding, if LA ends up with an NFL team, AEG will be forced to sell the Kings because they will build the stadium and theres some sort of conflict with that.
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Waxieman Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 6:59 pm
@tornado12,
If you own an NFL team you can’t own another sports franchise.
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 11:52 pm
@Waxieman, thats what it was. thank you for the clarification
Ravens Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 6:33 pm
@Steve W, in that case all us insiders will have to form a trust and see if we can get a big loan to buy the Kings, Quisp can do the math for us…maybe CB14 (TM Math)(LOL)
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 7:30 pm
@Ravens,
No need. LA won’t get a team. When LA loses 3 franchises, then stands around crying about not having a team, while Cleveland loses a Browns team, then gets another Browns team to replace it, all the while LA still tries to get away without building a new building, They don’t deserve it, even if they now see the error of their ways.
[Reply]
Gislaw Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 7:59 pm
@Ravens, If we could get 5,000 of us with $40K each it may work?
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
June 3rd, 2011 at 8:19 pm
@Ravens, The Kings value according to Forbes is 215 million dollars. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/31/hockey-valuations-10_rank.html
By using the Terry Murray math, that makes the Kings franchise value at approximately 90 million dollars. That seems like a number we could come up with if we all pool our money together, and get an 89 million dollar loan. LOL
I’m in for a $100. How about everyone else?
[Reply]
I heart our GM
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They keep talking about how they scored enough goals, but didn’t defend well enough. That’s because they changed their style to a wide-open game. Any team can score goals, if they open it up, just look at Melrose’s team in the 90′s. They could lose 7-4 every night. I like the d-men joining the rushes, but, like TM said, they were breaking down on their coverages. Forwards were not recognizing when the D was rushing, and they were not covering their vacated positions. I think it was more that, than missing Kopi’s D.
[Reply]
KindSir Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@Gary,
This. We need to get the personnel to be able to score goals without opening up too much and abandoning our defense. Is scoring 4 goals every night nice? Yea, but not while giving up 6 or 7 goals.
[Reply]
jet Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@Gary, We had 6 rookies and were overall very young. Young teams try to dance at home and they pay the price. We gave up 4 goals in 3 games in SJ and 16 goals in 3 games at home. It is just maturity to stay with the system to move to the next level. Hopefully, one day we can get to only bringing up 2 or 3 rookies a year. The talent is coming, hang on.
[Reply]
@Crown Royal
u said I think more of the speed needs to come from the forwards and DL needs to work that angle pretty hard.
muchas gracias
[Reply]
I was disappointed DL didn’t address the defense collapse in the playoffs….I mean to go from the shut out in San Jose for game 2 and then get man-handled…that sceams for an explanation.
I think DL ws beyond greacious regarding Penner – I’d have him sharpening skates all summer just to get the chance for camp. Murray missed sending a message by letting him play the last game. He would have been in the “300″ section if I were coach! I gave him an “F” in Hammond’s poll.
[Reply]
tim Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 10:27 am
@SouthbayFan,If TM put him in the 300 section, he wouldn’t come out alive.
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jet Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
@tim, but he would have had a chance to run
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KC23 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@SouthbayFan, Actually, if you heard him talk about missing Kopitar he did address it. The collapse defensively was at the forward position.
[Reply]
Guys, it’s sat a.m. and I just Had to share this with you. I have the nhl wheel of justice bookmarked and decided to go for a spin. So it was Alexandre Burrows bit Patrice Bergeron. I set the result as ‘out a few weeks’ and gave it a spin.
Decision: HOCKEY PLAY.
You’ve gotta love it. Whoever came up with that wheel has a great sense of humor… or humour as they say in the UK.
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:08 am
@number 6,
And they use the same decision making on “blows to the head”, thereby making it a longer process to get everyone one board. Even the announcers were quibling about how many games he’d get suspended.
But, no, its just a “hockey play” apparently, or ” nothing was conclusive”. Just stunning sometimes, isn’t it?
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@Kingsfanone,
yep…. bye clarence…..
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Whoa! that was refreshing! Dean knows what he’s doing!
Can’t wait for the new jerseys next year too!
Thanks Rich!
[Reply]
May I inrerrupt this Lombardi lovefest, to ask what the Penner trade says about management’s scouting of the player prior to the trade? It may sound silly, but had they hired a student to read Edmonton Oiler blogs about Penner, they would have gotten more actionable intelligence than what they apparently developed on their own. Lombasrdi, who preaches character, blames the trade results on Penner, without taking ownership for his/management’s failure to either do sufficient advance homework or to properly heed it.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
Penner was productive in Edmonton. If you listen to bloggers, we wouldn’t have DD, Brown, or JJ on our team. Everybody (including most proffesional analyst) felt the move made sense. If you felt it didn’t ahead of time, and said so, then that should show you just how much power the blogger truely has.
There’s still a chance to see if it will pan out. If he doesn’t, then he’s just another fill in player till his contract is up.
[Reply]
JackKent Cooke Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@Dominick,
If by “Everybody” you include the people in Edmonton who most thought getting rid of Penner made sense I would agree. If Penner was as out of shape as Lombardi and Murray claim, how could they have not known this before making a major move. Additionally, if his defensive deficiencies were so lacking, wouldn’t decent advance scouting have revealed that? Luckily in their business malpractice doesn’t apply
[Reply]
fsd1 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@JackKent Cooke, They know what his potential is, now he has to learn some new habits.
Gmo Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
Totally agree with your post 100% , you are bang on. Maybe DL and scouts evaluation of Penner was wrong. They just brought in the wrong guy for TM’s system. Anyways I have high hopes for Penner next year because it will only make the team better
GKG
DesertKing Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@JackKent Cooke,
I don’t blame DL. Penner was scouted by the King’s scouts. He was playing well and being productive for the Oilers. He was obviously in shape since he was playing first line minutes in Edmonton. For whatever reason, he gave up and stopped trying, which was painfully obvious, especially when you went to watch him play live and could follow him at those times when the camera isn’t. Hopefully DL or TM can figure ou what is needed to motivate him and get him to become a contributor. Fortunately, we only have to eat this year for his contract if he fails to perform.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:36 am
@DesertKing, I agree. Scouts and DL knew the lazy-issues but he was supposed to be playing 1st line with AK, who would’ve covered up his laziness on D. He was successful at first in that situation. When AK went down you better believe that Schwinn had the biggest OH CRAP moment of anyone in the building. He was going to be exposed, and he was. DL brought in the right guy, but he was only going to be successful in a very small niche and DL took that chance. Had that niche been there in the playoffs, I think DP would have had more success as would the rest of the team. DP was going to have to get into TM-system shape this summer regardless of how successful he might have been after the trade. If DP has a shred of pride, he’s going to come out with a chip a shoulder and play larger than he ever has.
[Reply]
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 2:11 am
@JackKent Cooke, It is all about risk and reward. The Kings didn’t risk much but the upside could be huge. He is still a King, not time to judge the trade yet, still time.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Osaka,
I agree with you. It is a high risk high reward situation. Also if Edmeonton bloggers are so brilliant, and clairvoyant how come they can’t figure out how to get their team out of the gutter? Aren’t they like 30th? Their Bloggers could see Penner deal going south ahead of time, but see which goalie is going to win them a cup?
Seems to me just a bunch of sourpusses being mad because we took their second highest scorer.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@Dominick, Should read “but CAN’T see which goalie is going to win them a cup?”
39scars Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@JackKent Cooke, And most of the Oiler bloggers think they were ripped off in this trade. If we go by Oiler bloggers then DL made a heck of a trade
[Reply]
Now the question will be the following:
Can Dean pull the trigger and snag up an Offensive player? Brad Richards was in his sights at the trade deadline and Dallas wouldn’t part with him. Now he is a UFA.
To Dean: Pull the trigger. Don’t pussyfoot around and get taken for a ride like you did with Ilya Kovalshmuck. Sign Richards early.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@Mesquite Smokie,
Early would be nice, but I just hope for an early decision, one way or the other. Kovalschmuck hand cuffed us all summer, last year. That was after he said ahead of time that it wouldn’t be that hard to make a decision quickly. Brad Richards made it clear he will listen to all offers. So if it’s a bidding war, I hope DL bows out gracefully and uses plan B quickly, before that option dissapears.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
@Dominick,
No way no way do i see him coming here. I don’t think he really wants to, he’s a center so he’d just block up the future for guys like Schenn and Lokti. Plus the teams who are rumored to be at the forefront for him make much more sense. NY Rangers desperate for a No. 1 center. Toronto also and they are rumored to be the most likely and he is from the Toronto area if I’m not mistaken.
Plus, the Kings don’t have nearly as much cap space as some people think as they have to sign DD and Quisp made that abundantly clear.
IF he were a left wing then that might be a different scenario. Then he’d (DL) would probably do whatever he could to make it work.
[Reply]
Arron Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
@number 6,
Richards was born in Murray Harbour, Prince Edward Island. that is not near Toronto. Also I read somewhere that he does not want to go to Toronto.
CB14 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@number 6, He can play L.W. as well as Center, he did it with Vinny Lecavalier, and I hope he does it with Kopi as well!
@Arron, that’s good to hear. Now if you could just tell me that you read somewhere that he does not want to go to New York, that would make my day! Even if it’s not true, just hearing it would make me feel better about our chances of signing him.
Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
@number 6,
He is in fact a left wing, who can play center just as effectively. I do agree that there are some suiters that make sense though. He has also made it clear to Tampa Bay (where he played for years, as a left wing, and won a cup) that he will listen to all offers. DL will make an honest play for him, I just hope he doesn’t sit around all summer doing it.
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 4:59 am
@number 6, That statement we don’t have cap space is with the assumption we keep the same roster. If we signed a center like Richards odds are Stoll would be move. If Schenn played one year in AHL that is 6.6 mil in cap space with just Stoll and Schenn. In a year or two (or three) Richards could move to LW and Schenn or Lokti could play center. That is one of the reason Richards is so attractive. That and the fact he is a former Conn Smythe trophy winner.
quisp Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:02 am
@osaka
that’s not the assumption. i ran the numbers assuming the kings let handzus, ponikarovsky, harrold, stoll and greene go, bury schenn in the ahl, and then add richards, and it takes us roughly to the cap ceiling. i’m not sure who the shut-down center is if you let stoll go. i guess lewis could do it. loktionov is not likely to be the fourth line center (richardson — who would have to be re-signed — is better suited). so you would be looking at kopitar, richards, lewis, richardson down the middle next season, which is…possibly a little defensively thin…but more to the point, is it better than kopitar/loktionov-schenn/stoll/lewis?
you could argue that one either way.
the other problem is timing. when exactly does lombardi start dumping salary? he can’t really do it after he signs richards, because then everyone and his brother would know he MUST dump salary and he won’t get top dollar — plus, he might not have the cap space to match an offer sheet for doughty. it would be the conservative option to dump the salary first, but then what happens if you don’t land richards?
having said that, I could see lombardi trading stoll and greene (or pick other names) for a first round pick. Lombardi likes picks, and he doesn’t have a 1st for only the second time in his GM career.
Personally, i would rather give the c2 spot to schenn and loktionov, and let those two earn miles between here and manchester all season. put stoll and lewis at c3 and c4.
i still might trade greene though. get a pick for him and then promote muzzin.
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@quisp, True, you didn’t have us signing any of our UFA. I really like Lewis as the defensive center but even a guy like Eric Belanger who had a one year deal I belive whith PHX @$750,000 and had 3 points less than Stoll. I think Kopi is solid at D, Richards is not bad, Lewis is solid…. I like that look down the middle. If it was not the case a defensive center could be brouth in for 3rd or 4th line.
I wouldn’t call it burying Schenn in the AHL, letting him develope. I can see him playing C3 or C4 for the Kings next year but C2 is asking a little much IMO. I prefer older players to rookies in almost every situation though, just me.
In the forth DL video (Rich hasn’t put up yet) he does mention he wants another top forward and will try to land one, but also mentions Schenn and Loti as addressing the issue possibly. He would rather develope them more slowly.
When do you start dumping salary? That is the risk right? If the Kings don’t see Stoll as their C2 then maybe draft time. He is in the last year of his contract. DL tries for a Richards and falls short we still have Schenn, Lokti, Lewis, or a rent a vet for a year at c2. There is risk but not dire. The deal I would like to see would be the Kings trade Quick to Philly for Jeff Carter. That would clog up center for our young guys so I would like to trade Quick and Schenn to Philly for Carter and JVR. Just my hypothetical. Carter has a long contract but it is a resonable 5.2 cap hit (only 1.6 more than Stoll) so it is very doable with the premise that Stoll is gone.
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@quisp, Even if we don’t get Richards, I think we would be still be right up against the cap by keeping Stoll and having Schenn with us next year. Stoll’s cap hit is 3.6 , Schenn’s is 3.1 . I doubt Dean would offer Richards a deal with a cap hit higher than 6. I believe his offer to Kovulsuck had a 5.5 to 6 million dollar cap hit. So I would rather have Richards with us, and Schenn in Manchester than both Stoll and Schenn with us next year. Kopi was the shut down center this year, Zues was too slow to play against most of the other guys. I think Lewis could be the shut down Center against normal sized Centers like Toews, Zetterberg, and Datsyuk while Kopi could go against bigger guys like Thornton and Getzlaf. Even if we keep Stoll and don’t sign Richards, I think Lewis and Kopi would be our shut down guys, I don’t think he would use Stoll as the shut down Center.
I’d be fine if DL traded Stoll for pennies on the dollar after signing Richards. I personally would include Martinez with Stoll in a trade to open up a spot for Voinov. I just don’t see Martinez becoming a top 4 d-man, and I love Voynov. The one downside with trading Greene is then we only have 2 veteran d-men to pair with 4 young guys, but you do have to weaken one spot to better another.
quisp Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
@osaka @cb
love belanger.
trading quick for carter — well, aside from the riots that would ensue, you’d have to move a couple more bodies to make the numbers work (quick is too affordable).
schenn — his full salary and bonus counts this year (no bonus cushion), so if he’s in the AHL and we’re up against the cap, there is no way to bring him up. I would be kind of surprised if we go into camp with schenn knowing that no matter what he’s not making this team, just because of the cap.
in general, i would like the team to get faster. more lewis, voynov, martinez, loktionov, deslauriers, prefer muzzin to greene… etc.
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
@quisp, That would suck for Schenn if he didn’t have a shot at being called up no matter what, but with us being so close to the cap it might be that way. I’ve read all your stuff on your site about our cap situation, and I realize that if DD signs a deal with a cap hit of 6 million it would be tough for us to fit under the cap even without signing Richards or any other UFA.
I would also like to see us have more speed, in other words not Matt Greene, but I think DD and JJ need another year under their belts before they can play together. The reason why I’m saying they will play together is because I don’t think TM would play a rookie with either JJ, DD, or Alec Martinez. I would think he would want a veteran like Greene, Scuderi, or Mitchell to play with a rookie d-man. If we trade Greene, then what would the defensive pairings be? I know we don’t even know who would get the job, my belief is Voynov would because he is a threat to go to Russia and Hickey makes too much money, but who would play with who if we trade Greene?
My situation with regards to the d-men would be to trade Martinez for a draft pick, you made the point about DL not having a 1st round pick for only the second time in his GM career. I’m not saying AM would bring back a 1st round pick, but he could be packaged with someone else to get one. This year I would pair Voynov with Greene and keep the other 2 pairs the same. Then next year Mitchell and DD2 are UFA’s, so we give the 6th and 7th spots to Hickey and Muzzin, in any order depending on their performance and matchups. At that point I think JJ and DD could play together or they both would be able to play with rookies if need be. Then Scuderi is gone the year after that so that opens up another starting spot for Hickey or Muzzin to fill. Then Greene is gone the next year so that opens up a spot for either Deslauriers or Forbort to fill.
After reading all that I realize that I’m looking way too much into the future. When does the new season start?
quisp Reply:
June 7th, 2011 at 10:30 am
@cb14
everything you say makes sense. as far as looking too far into the future, i do that all the time. i have rosters mapped out through 2014, i think it is. of course, you can’t really map anything out accurately because there will be trades and UFA signings and the rest of it. the exercise is more or less “if we sign or acquire no-one, how do we manage the prospects we have?”
my feeling has always been that — as you said — we’re going to need three vets on d and then at some point we’ll be able to go to 2 vets, because DD and/or JJ will be able to assume more of a leadership role. the question of course is, when is that time? reasonable to assume it’s not 2011-12.
my other assumption is that the highest number of non-huge offensive defensemen the Kings are likely to carry is…four. (the related thought is that the minimum number of stay at home d men is two.) doughty, johnson, martinez, voynov, hickey, deslauriers all fit the offensive d man description. some (johnson, doughty, deslauriers) are more physical than others (voynov), but in general they’re all power-play speedy on the rush type assets. All six of those guys aren’t to be on the Kings at the same time. Two or three will have to be moved.
my feeling is, there’s no way Doughty or Deslauriers get moved. There’s maybe a 1% chance of Johnson getting traded, but he’s nearly in the DOughty/Deslauriers category. (I could be wrong about deslauriers, but I get the feeling he’s like JJ but an even better skater, and just as nasty — we’ll see.) It’s easy for me to look five years down the road and see Doughty, Johnson, Deslauriers and Forbort as the core of one of the best defenses in the league.
So, that leaves Voynov (one of the fastest skaters on the planet), Hickey and Martinez — oh, and Muzzin — with (according to me) slightly less certain futures. With the Kings, I mean. I think all three will have careers. Muzzin I think has a decent chance of sticking this year, because he’s both punishing and useful offensively. Hickey, Voynov and Martinez…I don’t see how more than one of them makes it. and it does seem like Voynov is not going to want to sit in the AHL forever.
I can actually see any one of those three (or two even) getting dealt. That depends on Lombardi’s evaluation of them, and none of us knows what that is. if you go with biggest upside, you go with voynov. but i wouldn’t bet against martinez being the best of the three in ten years. such is lombardi’s dilemma.
problems like those are sometimes called “champagne problems.”
CB14 Reply:
June 7th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
@quisp, Thanks for the response. I don’t know much about Deslauriers other than what you and the other people on this site post, but it’s always positive comments about him. I agree with you about the d-men. I would also move Hickey and Martinez because of Voynov’s speed and offensive potential. I would think, I’m not sure though, that Martinez and Hickey both could bring back more in a trade than Voynov because Martinez has NHL experience and Hickey was a top 5 pick, while Voynov is a threat to go back to Russia. That’s also a reasoning in my decision to trade Hickey and Martinez rather than Voynov. My defensive line-up once Greene, Mitchell, and Scuderi are gone is:
Deslauriers Doughty
Forbort Johnson
Muzzin Voynov
VV fills in this year in Martinez’s spot. Muzzin next year for Mitchell when he’s a FA. Deslauriers for Scuderi when he’s a FA. Forbort for Greene when he’s a FA.
CB14 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@Dominick, There’s not much of a plan B out there on the free agent market in terms of forwards. I saw a list on ESPN.com of the top UFA forwards a couple of months ago. It had Richards first, Selaane second, Tanguay third, and I believe Curtis Glencross was fourth. There’s no way Selanne comes here, I wouldn’t want Tanguay because he’s very inconsistant, and Curtis Glencross is well, Curtis Glenncross. Enough said. Not much out there after Richards. Dean has said repetedly that he will not offer an offer sheet to a RFA, so we can forget about signing Parise, although a trade for him is not out of the relm of possibilities. The only other way to improve the team in free agency is to sign another d-man and trade one we already have for another top 6 forward. DD is a long long long shot to get traded, JJ just signed a long term deal and it doesn’t look good for DL to trade a guy who just signed a long term deal with us. The rest of the d-men wouldn’t bring back a top 6 guy in return for them, unless packaged with another player. Dean has to go all in on Richards or go bust with the rest of the free agent market. DL, send Dallas a 3rd round pick for the right to negotiate with Richards RIGHT NOW. The only way I see BR coming here is if we get him signed before he becomes a free agent, because we both know the NYR and TML will offer him huge bucks if he reaches free agency. Just look at the contracts the Rangers gave Drury and Gomez, who were both worse than Richards is now when they signed their contracts.
A 9 year 49.5 million dollar contract sounds good to me. It’s a cap hit of 5.5 million. He would earn 7 million each of the first 6 years, 3.5 in the 7th year, 2.5 in the eight year, and 1.5 in the last year of his contract when he would be 39. Not an unreasonable deal to me. Joe Thornton signed a 3 year extension with an average salary of 7 million last year, so that’s a reasonable comparison IMO. 6 years at 7 mil per year is also a reasonable deal, but by adding on the additional 3 years it brings his cap hit down to a reaspectable level. I would also be willing to give him an average cap hit of 6 mil if thats what it took to sign him. Make it happen Dean.
[Reply]
quisp Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:10 am
@CB14,
i prefer my pipe-dream of throwing the moon at parise.
Scot Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:48 am
@CB14,
I would go all in to try and sign Kevin Bieksa.
That would mean Greene goes, and another player at least.
And if Vancouver wins the Cup, Bieksa might want to stay there, but his new contract might be to much for Vancouver to afford. And they are deep enough on D to let him go.
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@CB14,
Free agency isn’t the only answer, and I would suspect Plan B has a to do with trade. Waiting for younger players to fill rolls would probably be plan C. I’m not sure about the list, but I am sure Richards isn’t the only plan, or option. Waiting all summer to try and land him would be a mistake also, becuase what ever the other plans are, I don’t think they include putting all their eggs in one basket for Richards. At least I hope they don’t.
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:09 pm
@quisp, I love Parise too, but how wuold you make it fit under the cap and line-up wise. I remember in a previous post between you and I that we both agreed that Stoll is the most likely to be traded player we have because of his performance and contract. If we sign Parise we’d have to clear just as much salary as if we signed Richards, only we couldn’t trade Stoll because that would put us way too thin at Center. We might be able to trade Penner, and get pretty much nothing in return, but that trade would look HORRIBLE on DL’s resume if we only get less than a half a season out of him with not much value in return if we trade him. I don’t see anyone taking Smyth unless it’s with either Quick or Bernier. One other scenario is trading Stoll and re-signing Zues, but that would at the minimum only save us 2.6 million. I doubt Zues would take less than 1 million to play with us. So we would still have to trade other players in order to get under the cap.
If we trade for Parise that would cost us at least Bernier, Simmonds, and a young d-man IMO. I’m not against that trade because we already have a number 1 goalie, 2 top 6 R.W.’s, and a bunch of young d-man prospects. That wouldn’t really lessen the amount of salary we would have to get rid of because Bernier and Simmonds don’t make much more than their replacements would. It could mabye save us 1 million total. Also NJ needs to get rid of salary so I doubt they would take on Penner, Smyth, or Stoll’s contracts in the deal. Richards is a much better fit IMO because of his ability to play both Center and L.W. It would allow us to trade our most tradeable player who makes a decent amount of money, Stoll, and who would be easy to trade because his production is in line with his salary, unlike Penner and Smyth.
My definition of our most tradeable player is: A player whose production matches his salary, is at a position in which we have enough guys who could take over his spot, and someone who is not a core player in the long term building of this team. That’s why I choose Stoll as our most tradeable player, if we sign Richards of course.
Player-X Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 7:30 am
@CB14, this is a repost, VERY long, but it deals with all the ideas floating, trading Stoll, losing Greene/a defenseman, etc. Would really like to hear your thoughts if you have time to read it…
Any serious look at trying to sign Brad Richards has to begin with this number; 7.8 million, his cap hit this year. To sign this guy, it seems the budget has to be within ½ a million of 8 million, for at least three years.
(Now, with the Rangers story out there, it seems the number might be closer to 7 million, which allows a crucial amount to be reduced and makes the deal slightly more do-able. Remember, this was written thinking it would be about 8 mill per year, now it reduces by maybe as much as 3/4 million)
Dean Lombardi has revealed the expected salary cap for 2011-2012 will be roughly just under 63 million. I am going to use 62.5.
The Kings have to sign or lose:
Drew Doughty RFA
Wayne Simmonds RFA
Alec Martinez RFA
Alexei Ponikarovsky UFA
Peter Harrold UFA
Brad Richardson RFA
Trevor Lewis RFA
Oscar Moller RFA
Michal Handzus UFA
You sign Drew Doughty, Duh. You sign Wayne Simmonds and Alec Martinez, for sure. You let Ponikarovsky go. You let Peter Harrold go. That leaves decisions on
Brad Richardson
Trevor Lewis
Oscar Moller
Michal Handzus.
Richardson and Lewis are incredible values for their cap dollars. Richardson plays center and left wing, Lewis plays center and right wing. Each is very versatile, fulfill multiple roles, score occasionally and we know they step up at critical times in playoff hockey. I think you get them both for a combined 2,225,000, 1.25 to Richardson and 1.0 to Lewis. Maybe you get them for 2 million, but that seems like the least, to me.
Oscar Moller is worth 1 million on a two-way contract; sign him and decide later if he plays in Manchester, which he should. Of course, Brayden Schenn must be looked at, but it seems obvious to me, and maybe me alone, that his 3.1 million cap hit is not gonna be worth it, and that he needs to wait another year and grow into his body, develop some confidence playing against full grown men and learn some defense. There will be much more room for his cap hit in 2012-2013, when Smyth’s deal expires.
So that leaves Handzus. Love the guy, need his veteran leadership, need his PK and his heart. But if we are deciding between Brad Richards and someone else, you have to look at Richards first. Long term, Richards, being younger, is the more attractive option, even at the price tag. But, is it really a choice between Handzus and Richards? By not signing Handzus, are we actually creating the cap space needed for Richards? What are the numbers for those already signed?
Kopi=6.8, Smyth= 6.25, Penner=4.25, Williams=3.65, Stoll=3.6, Brown=3.175, Parse=.9, Clifford=.870, Westgarth= .525. Forwards total = 30.02 million.
Johnson=4.357, Mitchell=3.5, Scuderi=3.4, Greene=2.95, Drewiske=.62. Defense totals 14.824 million.
Quick and Bernier = 3.0 million.
Signed players = 30.02 + 14.824 + 3.05= 47.894. Cap space projected at 62.5 leaves 14.6 million.
Doughty could sign a short-term deal to take him up to UFA status, let’s say 5.375. By merit, he has not earned Lidstrom or Pronger money; by potential, he is worth more than 5.375. But, why not let him prove himself, while making over 5 mill a year, and earn the really big dollars in a couple of years? It’s a good deal for the Kings and for Doughty, too.
Simmonds, let’s say you offer him 1.5, barring any offer sheets from Kevin Lowe. Lewis and Richardson we already have at 2.25, Moller 1 mill, and now Doughty at 5.375. These five total 10.125. If Moller is in Manchester, then you are at 9.125. So, with 14.6 of cap space minus the 10.125, you have 4.475 million in cap space. Therefore, signing everyone but Handzus and Ponikarovsky leaves you 4.475 with Moller in L.A., or 5.475 with Moller in Manchester. To get Richards, you need 8.5, so 8.5 minus 4.475 leaves 3.025 million in cap space needed with Moller in Manchester. If I have to choose between Moller playing in L.A., or helping me get Richards by staying in Manchester, it becomes a no-brainer. So, bottom line is we are looking for 3 mill in cap space.
Without Richards you have Kopi, Stoll, Richardson, Lewis and Moller at center. To me, that is thin. Too thin. Stoll can be number 2, but then you don’t have a number 3 with size. Stoll can be a number 3, but then you don’t have a number 2 with enough scoring touch. What is ideal? Kopi scores, Lewis and Richardson platoon between wing and center, Stoll checks with scoring added, and then we need a scoring number 2 center.
Do you trade Stoll? I say no. Maybe you sign Handzus and then trade Stoll, but this is a short-term move in that Handzus is aged and has few years left. Trade Stoll, and you lose scoring and face-off mastery, and though you have two centers in Kopi and Richards, and Handzus at number 3, you have unattractive options in case of injury to Handzus at his advanced age, a not unlikely occurrence. Moller has no chance of being a checking center and neither would this role be ideal for Richardson or Lewis. You could do this, then use the money created next year when Smyth’s contract ends to get another center. But, and this is the actual key, losing Stoll for Handzus this year would net probably only 1.6 million in cap space. Stoll gets 3.6, Handzus could be expected to get 2 mill, that is the amount most often discussed for him. So, if you lose Stoll and sign Handzus, it’s not enough cap space created to sign Richards. If you lose Stoll, it’s potentially thin down the middle, and the center ice position is the single most critical position in Murray’s system.
In further evaluating a replacement of either Stoll or Handzus by Richards, you can’t ignore the face-off ramifications. Stoll is a right shot, finished the season in 5th place in the league (5th place in the league!!) at 57.5 percent having taken 1310 draws. Handzus is a left shot, and finished the regular season in 41st place at 51.7 percent taking 1312 draws; at one point in January he was at 48.9. Richards is also a left shot, finished in 48th place at 50.6 percent having taken 990 draws. Clearly, Richards should replace Handzus, and not Stoll, to preserve having both a right hand and left hand face-off man.
People say, as Lombardi said, that the defense is set. Yes, it is set in that we have a full complement signed except Doughty and Martinez and they are both keepers. But, when you pay Doughty and Martinez, you end up with a defensive payroll of 21.45 million. Goalies add 3.05, so you have 24.5 from the cap limit of 62.5 leaving 38 million for forwards. In other words, 7 defensive players average 3.06 million, letting your forwards average among 13 players, 2.92 million. If Lombardi says he wants to improve the creativity and raise the skill level of his team, he needs to spend a higher proportion on offense than he now does.
Some have mentioned buying out Ryan Smyth. This would generate 3.25 in cap space. I doubt this will happen, because it seems like a classless move, it makes a hole to fill a hole, and it would require an all-out commitment to Dustin Penner becoming not just better, but much, much better. And, Smyth is durable, he plays playoff hockey, and no matter how slow he appears, he is hockey smart and gets the job done. I think you have to play this guy out.
For me, the only way to get Brad Richards is to trade Greene or Scuderi, and count on Muzzin to come in ready, or else get a 1 million dollar journeyman to fill the number 6 defense position. An Andreas Lilja (600K), or a Sean O’Donnell (1 mill), a guy that is not perfect or even close, but that will make probably as many mistakes as a youngster but will also make a few plays that only the veteran can do. I would prefer that Muzzin made the team, but either way the cap number is the same.
Losing Scuderi or Greene would hurt, but if this organization is supposedly so damn deep at defense, there has to be a good chance that if Muzzin is not ready we can find another Martinez next year, or else platoon Drewiske and Muzzin/Journeyman in a pair with Martinez. The least great impact to this lineup that allows the cap space to get Richards would therefore, in my opinion, be to trade Greene or Scuderi, and Scuderi yields the most cap space.
If you trade Scuderi, Greene moves into a top 4 role. With the dynamic nature of Johnson and Doughty, you could even move Martinez up and Greene down late in games, as situations warranted.
If you trade Greene, you lose the locker room value he brings, but if you do it off-season it will be lessened in impact. Instead of looking at the rookie Martinez as a number 6 with the steady, stay-at-home Greene as his partner, you could look at the dynamic Martinez as a number 5 with either a scary young Muzzin, or a slightly scary and slow journeyman that might lag on the rush but has the size and smarts to play limited minutes in front of his own net capably. But again, the half-million difference in cap space makes Scuderi the better trade possibility.
Therefore, here is my capgeek lineup for 2011-2012:
Penner 4.25 – Kopi 6.8 – Williams – 3.65
Smyth 6.25 – Richards 8.0 – Brown – 3.175
Clifford .87 – Richardson 1.25 – Simmonds 1.5
Parse .9 – Stoll 3.6 – Lewis/Westgarth .525
Mitchell 3.5 – Doughty 5.375
Johnson 4.357 – Greene 2.95
Martinez 1.25 – Muzzin/Journeyman 1.0
Drewiske .617
Goalies 3.05
Total 63,768,810. This puts us 1.269 over the cap. Maybe you could shave some off Simmonds, from 1.5 to 1.1, Richardson from 1.25 to 1.0, Martinez from 1.25 to 1.0, Lewis from 1.0 to .875; all those shavings would get you to within 143,000 of the cap. Maybe Doughty signs a short term deal that comes in lower than 5.375 on the deal that only takes him to UFA status, and sets him up for big offers then. All I know is that the lineup looks awesome to me, and would probably look good to Lombardi, and if he is the real world general manager why can’t I expect him to world some real world GM magic and make this work?
Even if you end up over the cap for the year, maybe you just take that hit. The amount you are over one year is discounted from your personal cap limit the next year. So what if you go over by 1 million? This year the Kings finally finished being saddled with the Allyn McCauley buyout, which had the same effect of a cap penalty, and that was 666,000. If you take 1 mill over in 2011-2012, you get a 1 mill penalty in 2012-2013, and that is the year Smyth’s 6.25 mill opens up, along with Penner at 4.25. Take the pain, sign the perfect guy and be over the cap by a little. You just squeeze it in this year, knowing you have boatloads of cap space the next year to absorb that penalty.
Richards is worth it, because he is the perfect fit for this team; power play enhancement, scoring number 2 center, face-off guy with a left shot, brings offensive creativity, plays responsibly on the defensive game, and puts up points. Pay him the money, spend a year up against the cap limit or even a bit over, because in just one year the cap space ceiling will shatter and the Kings will have every possible option available to them, and will have Brad Richards under long-term contract.
Put it this way; would you trade Rob Scuderi and Michal Handzus for Brad Richards straight up? I would, in a heartbeat. Would that be worth a core, signed long-term, of Kopitar, Brad Richards, Brown, Williams, Simmonds, Clifford, Richardson, Doughty, Johnson, Martinez, Greene and two awesome goalies, with cap space to bring in Schenn and re-sign Mitchell and Stoll in 2013? My answer would have to be an immediate yes.
Osaka Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@Player-X, Nice work there. I still say trade Stoll and Green if we sign Richards. Scuds is way to valuable and Stoll is expendable after the signing. Scuds is a better leader than Green, better in the room, way better on the ice (a top 4 D-man)…… After next year Stoll’s contract is up, we aren’t going to resign him with Schenn and Lokti coming. I love Stoll but he is the odd man out. We would be getting a former Conn Smyth trophy winner to replace him so I am OK with it. Lewis becomes the shut down guy.
CB14 Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@Player-X, I wrote part of this on the next page in response to KC23, but here’s the important stuff. (sorry about the partial re-post Rich) We could give Richards 8 million for 5 years then 6 mil, 4 mil, 2 mil, 2 mil. That’s 54 million over 9 years, a cap hit of 6 million. That’s do able to me. The only way I see us getting Richards is with a 9 year deal so that the last couple of years would lower his cap hit. I don’t see Dean offering him a 5 year 40 million dollar deal. We couldn’t handle the cap hit.
By having a 6 million dollar cap hit, that would take 2 million off of our cap with the roster you had. I would also trade Stoll. I realize we would take a huge dropoff in faceoffs, but I would rather keep Scuderi/Greene than Stoll. In your line-up you had a rookie(Muzzin or Voynov) playing with a 2nd year d-man. You also had Greene with JJ, a pairing that hasn’t worked well in the past. The problem with those 2 pairs is that they both would be below average defensively. JJ was our worst d zone defenseman, and Greene is too slow to match up against forwards with speed. I just don’t like the idea of a rookie and a 2nd year defenseman playing together on the same line. Keep Greene, and after this year decide between Mitchell and Greene who to keep. Mitchell’s a UFA and we could just let him walk, or we could trade Greene, who is signed for another 2 years.
Lewis could handle the matchups against speedy centers like Toews, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg, while Kopi could play against bigger centers like Thornton and Getzlaf. TM already matches Kopi up against most of the top centers anyways, so losing Zues and Stoll won’t matter. Yes losing both Stoll and Zues would hurt our P.K. and our faceoff %, but it’s worth the offensive production of Richards IMO.
My Line-up next year:
Penner 4.25 – Kopi 6.8 – Williams – 3.65
Smyth 6.25 – Richards 6.0 – Brown – 3.175
Clifford .87 – Lewis .900 – Simmonds 1
Parse .9 – Loktionov .816 – Richardson 1
Clune .6 – Westgarth .525
Mitchell 3.5 – Doughty 4.0
Scuderi 3.4 – Johnson 4.357
Muzzin or Voynov .9 – Greene 2.95
Drewiske .617
Goalies 3.05
I don’t see DD getting as much as you do because of his down year. He’s under our control, and at 4 million he would still be making a half a million more than JJ. That’s a combined salary of 64 Million. I’m with you in that I would take a 2 million dollar penalty this year for the ability to sign Richards. We could let Penner, Smyth, and Mitchell go after this year, and replace them with Schenn, Toffoli, Hickey or Muzzin/Voynov, which ever one doesn’t make the team this year. The three guys leaving make a combined 14 million, while the three guys replacing them make a combined 5.207. That would leave us plenty of room to sign DD to a long term deal with a high salary, around 7 to 8 million.
quisp Reply:
June 7th, 2011 at 10:48 am
@Player X
Good and thoughtful stuff. I agree with a lot of what you say here, the exception being that I don’t think there’s any way Lombardi trades Scuderi, and even if hell froze over, Matt Greene would not be playing in the top-four.
I need to correct one thing, however: you say that if a team is over the cap ceiling, it simply comes off their cap ceiling as a penalty the following season. this is not true. what you’re referring to is the penalty for being over the cap at the end of the season as a result of the bonus cushion (i.e. assuming you would not have to pay certain bonuses and then having to pay them). however, there is no bonus cushion this year, as it’s the last year of the CBA. All bonuses count 100% against the cap, as though they were not bonuses.
No team is allowed to go over the cap ceiling (upper limit) for any reason at any time. It’s simply not allowed. There isn’t even a specific prescribed penalty, other than the CBA says the commissioner can strip draft picks, forfeit games, levy stiff fines, void trades and other moves, and a bunch of other stuff. It’s a hard cap.
If it turns out the cap is $62.5MM, then that’s the limit. Teams get an additional 10% over the summer, and have to get down under the cap by the end of training camp. And if a player goes on LTIR, you can replace the injured player with up to the value of his cap hit. But that’s it.
The issue with signing Richards, I think, is the danger of either (1) dumping salary before 7/1 in order to make room, and then not landing Richards, or, worse (2) not making room for RIchards, signing him, and then leaving oneself vulnerable to an offer sheet for Doughty or Simmonds. A third problem is having to dump salary over the summer when everyone knows you have to, so you don’t get anything approaching top dollar.
Player-X Reply:
June 8th, 2011 at 6:29 am
@CB14, Hey man, glad you saw this and really appreciate the response.
I would love it if Richards would take the 9 year deal you propose. That is the sort of GM magic to which I referred when my numbers came up so close to the cap ceiling. I would be totally comfortable with that commitment level for Richards, not only for his play but for his durability, team attitude, experience, etc. I guess you just take the risk on injury, my only real hesitation for these ultra-long deals.
I am confused about the number you put for Doughty, not sure how 4 mill cap hit comes out half a million less than Johnson at 4.375. I agree that Doughty “earned” the lower amount, but sadly it seems that he will have to be paid according to potential and not performance, with the threat of an offer sheet from somebody out there.
For me Doughty’s contract is the number one variable, the center of the budget universe. Lombardi knows a range, I am sure, and is working off it in his planning, but we will just have to wait until it is already done. People have been saying 6 mill on the upper end, and your 4 mill on the lower end. If we admit that a fan’s prediction being within half a million is a really good guess, I am still comfortable with guessing 5.375.
It will also be interesting, really interesting, to see the term of the deal. I am really hoping Lombardi says he can’t justify a big number and Doughty takes a shorter deal, letting the contract end when Doughty would be a free agent so he can play better and command top 5 d-man money. It seems logical and would also be the best, I think, for both parties.
When you say you would trade Stoll, I cannot ever agree to that. I see him as the dark matter of this team, secretly holding everything together. I cannot over-emphasize the importance of face-offs, especially with Murray’s system. I can see how Scuderi might be for everyone else what Stoll is to me, but I would rather lose Scuderi if it were between the two.
Scuderi has zero offensive creativity, and the systems now require either the 4th man jumping in on a rush, or even more importantly the ability to pass or shoot from the point when the puck comes from low to high, and Scuderi just simply does not pass it and rarely shoots it. He just dumps it back down the boards, and for those who rail at the stifling system this seems like anathema to their expectations of offensive creativity.
I like your thinking on Lewis taking fast guys and Kopi taking big guys, but I am probably feeling the same apprehension about giving Lewis that big a role as you feel about playing the two younger d-men as a pairing. And, I acknowledge that it is probably easier to compensate for a forward’s shortcomings than the more high-profile position of a defenseman, but that was why I wanted to also get some wily veteran (When O’Donnell played for Philly his salary-for-performance ratio was prototypical, not sure he could be the same O’Donnell again but someone like that). As well, if Green is the slowest, I don’t see Scuderi being much faster. Maybe they are one-two slowest, and again, I want more creativity from the D-corps and am willing to risk a youngster next year in an attempt to groom that guy starting immediately.
Lastly, the lineup you wrote out totals at 59.51, so you have a little room left there. Even if Doughty came in at 5.5, you would still be at 61 with some room left. If that were the case, I would simply replace the Scuderi 3.4 with the Stoll 3.6, and have 1 million left under the 62.5.
I apologize for the mistake about going over the cap and the penalty for so doing, Quisp pointed that out and explained it, and so we cannot rely on that idea. My bad.
Thanks again for the chat, salute.
@Quisp-
Thanks for pointing out my cap-penalty mistake, makes it much tougher to squeeze in a big contract this year. I still think Richards is worth major moves to bring in, and since Lombardi can’t go over the cap as I originally thought, then I guess I have to count more on the GM magic to make it happen.
As far as the risk of timing and leverage of who goes first, I see that as part of the territory, and even though some buzzard GM may know Lombardi is weak because he has to make a trade, I just hope that weakness is offset by that same buzzard GM knowing that he could lose a deal to a third GM willing to offer just a bit more, my clumsy way of describing an “auction” atmosphere. For sure, it is a concern, but even if we didn’t get much back for Scuderi, if it works out that we get Richards instead of Scuderi and all we have to do is pay more, that is a good trade. I am not saying we should squander an asset in Scuderi, but has was a free agent, and we would simply be getting another free agent in his place.
Really, when I did the numbers, I saw that it got close enough and that there were enough variables in flux, that an actual practicing professional might be able to find a way. And, Richards is such a good fit, especially with the complement to Stoll’s face-offs by replacing Handzus as the left-shooting face-off guy in addition to the creativity and size. I just see Richards as the perfect skill set for Murray’s system, and the perfect fit for the team’s needs. Getting Richards long-term is, IMHO, worth a year of letting younger players fill roles because of cap issues, because the next summer there will be tons of room (Smyth, Mitchell, Stoll contracts all expiring) to compensate and adjust. If we get Richards now, even if it hamstrings us next year, it sets up 2012-2013 as a real shot of having guys all in their prime, signed long-term, and cap room to make that deadline deal for the final piece.
It’s very interesting how we are discussing B. Richards..
How we can get him etc…
Check out Toronto, Tampa, Winnipeg, even Montreal..
Heck every team except perhaps a dozen or so are all speculating.
Especially the Maple Laffs..As far as they are concerned it’s a done deal..
Richard’s [his agent] are gonna milk this one..
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@SLIM, Exactly. He is gonna go for way more than he’s worth. I don’t think we have a shot at all at the guy and we’ll probably be better off for it because of what he’ll do to the cap.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
@KC23,
exactly
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
@SLIM, I’m almost certain the Kings won’t sign him, Za Za Kovalchuk made sure of that, DL is not going to risk the season on another guy milking it until the bitter end, he’s going to do a trade if he’s going after big game, and Philly seems the easiest target for a trade…I wish it was Parise,,but he ain’t going anywhere.
[Reply]
Yes, if the Kings want to be champs they need speed and bring in that young talent coming up and let them learn, even if the Kings bearly make the playoffs doing the youth movement.
Talent we have in Mancheater this coming year is like haveing the best team not in the NHL. The youth ls the most talented team and if we just stick with our core and bring in the youth in 2 years we could be in the finals.
Here what Hockey Furture says about the Kings AHL team!!
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/13104/ahl_affiliate_for_los_angeles_kings_loaded_with_nhlready_talent/
[Reply]
Well that was fast, Winnipeg already sold 13,000 season tickets.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6625982
Good thing Bettman moved the Jets to Phoenix, otherwise Atlanta wouldn’t of been able to move there. Why did he move the Jets out of Winnipeg in the first place? Because Phoenix loves hockey and it’s doing great there. Nope that’s not it. Wait, who gave Atlanta another expansion team after they couldn’t support the first one? Could someone please remind me how he is still the commish? If I sucked at my job for 18 years I would’ve been fired by now.
I’ve got it, it’s because if he keeps allowing teams to move and bring in new expansion teams the other owners recieve expansion and relocation fees. That’s it. That’s why the next expansion team will be in Phoenix once the Coyotes move to Canada. Then the new Phoenix team will have to move as well, that’s a lot of expansion and relocation fees for Bettman to divide up among the other owners. I’m convinced that’s the only reason why he’s still employed. Don’t even get me started on why it took so long to get rid of Colin Campbell, or why Mike Murphy is still employed.
[Reply]
Arron Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 9:23 am
@CB14,
Once the seats were opened up to the General public it took two minutes for the seats to sell and another 15 for them to be processed.
[Reply]
Scot Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:52 am
@CB14,
Whoever is the head disciplinarian, Colin Campbell, I guess, flat out WHIFFED on not suspending Alex Burrows. I am so glad he is out after this season and Brendan Shanahan is in. Shanahan is going to hand out worthy suspensions and completely raise the bar on penalties for hits to the head. And Burrows would not have played in Game 2, which might have led to a Boston win.
I agree, Campbell and Murphy are just not competent most of the time. I’m sure they are close friends with the league, but come on, get someone in there who can do the job right.
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@Scot, Mike Murphy is the one who made the Burrows decision because Campbell’s son plays for Boston.
Good to see your name back up on the site, you hade been gone for awhile.
[Reply]
Scot Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:47 pm
@CB14,
Thanks bud. Hard for me to talk Kings this time of year. I’ll definitely get in on more conversations when the Kings are active again, starting with the Draft, Free Agency, etc. Loving the Vancouver-Boston series so far! Hope you’re doing well. Where do you live anyway? I could see us watching a Kings game over a beer next season if we are anywhere near eachother. I’m in Long Beach.
Burrows! he’s been a monster in the playoffs. Nux played it smart, go after Chara with speed and and get him off the ice for the PP
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
@Ravens, B’s take over in the second..getting the traffic at net
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Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
@Ravens,
B’s looked good, but Vancouver has had some glorious chances. Go B’s!
[Reply]
Burrows sticking his fingers in a Bruins face and saying “bite it” is fricken hillarious. Seems like Burrows is getting the best of Boston so far.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
Man is he ever getting the best of the Bruins. 2-0 Vancouver.
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
@Dominick, B’s fan have to be totally incensed with Bettman right now….I would be Irate…it’s the sort of things that happen to the Kings when we play Montriel
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
@Ravens, sorry my freinds north of the border I ment Montreal
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 8:38 am
@Dominick, actually that was Lapierre. That guys’ an idiot! The nux are definitely getting under the skin of the B’s…
[Reply]
hey everyone…what channel is the game on. I a in LA….direct TV. I thought ABC was covering the final round? I can;t find the game anywhere?
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
@tellmeY, Channel 7 I believe.
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Dominick Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
@tellmeY, NBC channel 4 sorry.
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What a joke!! The nhl should be exceedingly proud of itself. Yep, that about explains why the nhl is in a distant fourth place amongst the major sports. A guy who almost everyone agreed shouldn’t be playing from resorting to WWA tactics scores two goals including the GW. I’m not even a Boston fan and I can’t begin to imagine how those people are feeling right now.
Anyway, clearly no way does Boston win 4 out of 5 vs, Canucks so it’s been a fun season. On to the next one.
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
@number 6, Have you ever listened to Lee Hamilton on 570…or maybe it’s 710 ESPN..he is always blasting Bettman for these type of calls…he says that’s why the NHL is turning into a garbage league.. he might be right!
[Reply]
rumpa#19 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
@Ravens, Its not Bettman ,Colin Cambell steped down for the finals because his son plays for the Bruins.Makes me sick as a hockey fan.
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rumpa#19 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
@number 6, So POed 2 goals and 1 assist ? assist to the NHL . It makes me sick ,the game i love tanted forever!!!!
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
@number 6, It’s the WWE now. Look at my post about three spots above yours. I knew Bettman was horrible for the league even before Burrows scored 2 goals and 1 assist in a game he shouldn’t have been playing in. Freaggin unreal. It is typical that the team who cheats and embellishes the most would win a Stanley Cup game with a player who shouldn’t even be playing scoring the game winning goal, the game tying assist, and the first goal for their team. It fits Vancouver perfectly. Damn diving sissies.
[Reply]
if Burrows was a King and we where playing the Nux….what would the ruling have been?
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rumpa#19 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
@Ravens, 5 games min.
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number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
@rumpa#19
Now you’re exaggerating. i think it would’ve been only 4
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Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@number 6, Ha…..ok now I’m smiling again
DesertKing Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
@Ravens,
3 games, 2 slurpees, and the entire “Twilight” collection on DVD. I think DL would counter with 1 1/2 games and a VHS version of “Tango and Cash.”
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Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
@DesertKing, I think the NHL would take the Tango and Cash movie…it’s something they can actually grasp
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
@Ravens,
It would have been sacrilege to offer “Slapshot.” Whe we run out of “Tango and Cash” copies, we can offer them “Demolition Man” tapes.
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
@Ravens, you can throw Bio-dome in the mix as well
Arron Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
@DesertKing, you had me at two slurpees…lol
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:16 pm
@Arron,
They would probably ask for the pina colada flavor. Might explain why they keep screwing up the replay calls.
I guess when it’s your year…..
[Reply]
rumpa#19 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
@Goring 19, Take it in the rear?
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Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
@Goring 19, That’s what it seems like. I remember when the F*^ks won it all..it seemed like every 50/50 bounce or call went their way…that and a certain goalie
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
@Ravens, NHL better watch out, they are at risk of losing even more US viewers
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rumpa#19 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
@Ravens, EVEN IN UNTRADITIONAL MARKETS .WE WOULD GET MUCH WORSE ,AND THERE WOULD BE NO MENTION.
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
@Ravens, Over?
maybe what we really need is a piranha…works for the Nuxs
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
@Ravens,
Raves…. wanted to tell you in function w your above comments….
About, I don’t know, like 10 years ago this friend of mine gave me a book. It’s called ‘The Men Who Ruined Hockey’ or something very close to that. To answer your question, I haven’t listened to those guys as I’m in NY so espn here you almost never get hockey on the radio. There are the Yankees, basketball, the Yankees, basketball, and of course whatever else.
But coming back to the point, that book is out in my storage vault. Next trip I make out there I just might grab it. That is absolutely scandalous. SCANDALOUS. I mean Keith Jones, Milbury, Enzo, and all the blogs say it’s a given he’ll be suspended. Oh, NOW I get it. He didn’t actually Lose half the finger. Probably if Bergeron has a bloody stump then they give Burrows a game.
I haven’t seen a team win the Cup since 1975 (when I first saw hockey) that I find so repulsive. OK. Would I love to have Kesler on the Kings. Obvious. He’s a great player. But he’s still dirty. Add in Sedins with the embellishment, Burrows who is quite simply a very dirty player (not Matt Cooke dirty, but dirty in his own category), Torres, Lapierre who evidently was getting away w stuff as well, and I really don’t give a toss whether they win the Cup.
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
@number 6,
Not to mention that the league still allows Bertuzzi to suit up.
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number 6 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
@DesertKing,
Yeah, and it just dawned on me: if I’m not mistaken, the league said it didn’t have enough evidence vis a vis Burrows. OK. So, can someone explain why it is that Burrows got 4 mins in his ‘skirmish’ w Bergeron, to say nothing of the fact that Bergeron is known as a clean player and Burrows not, while Bergeron got 2 mins. I mean he either Did something to merit the extra 2 mins or he didn’t in which case it’s 2 and 2.
The B’s must be Absolutely gutted right now. Gutted. Also I love Tim Thomas but as the B’s don’t score much recently, his gambling style inevitably leads to ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’.
Arron Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
@DesertKing,
That is because they are taking directions from Barney on HIMYM
Ravens Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
@number 6, All bites aside #6..and you are correct in those statements…you are also correct in past statmnets, it wasn’t just the bite of Burrows, it was the speed, you have to have your big grinders to do the good work on the boards and wear down a team, you have to have your stars, so the other teams stars have their hands full and cancel eachother out, but you need speedy guys on the other lines to push the tempo. Also Domonic’s “passing the puck” words rang true, that quick one time pass WITHOUT bobbling speeds up the game even more, and beats goalie’s
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 1:11 am
@Ravens,
I’m over the speed issue. It’s those Boston turnovers and with their speed Vancouver is on the opposition so fast it isn’t funny. That’s why they have been so effective at every phase of the game this year, plus they obviously have talented players.
Another thing is that they can bring their dmen into the offensive play with less risk because they can get back on d so quickly. The Kings obviously can’t even think about doing that sort of thing without getting outnumbered attacks going the other way. I can’b believe how quickly the Vancouver players are on top of you. It’s because in addition to the system they play, they are FAST.
CB14 Reply:
June 4th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
@number 6, Even if he did lose half a finger, the NHL probably still couldn’t find “CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE” that he bit it off on purpose. That’s what their statement said, they couldn’t find conclusive evidence that he bit him purpously. UNREAL, just UNREAL. I find it odd that the only time i’ve ever bit a body part on accident, was when I bit my tongue while chewing food. You hear that NHL, i’ve never bit my tongue, or any other body part for that matter, while talking, breathing, or playing hockey. Yet an HNL player did it on accident, yeah right, WHILE the player who got bit was wearing a hockey glove. A piece of material that to my knowledge does not taste like food. Although to be fair, I’ve never tried to eat a hockey glove. LOL
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:48 am
@CB14,
I understand that the french have a fabulous recipe using hockey gloves along with frogs. But they say it isn’t for everyone.
Somehow everyone knew Vancouver would win the cup, but with a break here or there this series would be tied. Oh well.
Off topic from the Burrows “love fest”, but is anybody else just sick and tired of Mike Emrick? I know players will sometimes tune out a coach and eventually get him fired, can’t we do the same with Mike “too wordy” Emrick. And while we’re at it, will some dumb schmuck team hire Pierre MacGuire as their G.M., he adds absolutely nothing to a hockey broadcast.
I could just mute the game, but I want to hear the crowd noise and Eddie Olczyk isn’t too bad when he can get a word in.
[Reply]
king snake Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 8:51 am
@Jack the Lad, was thinking the exact same thing about Emrick!
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BobKnob Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:43 am
@Jack the Lad,
yes. I miss the ESPN broadcasters in the 90′s.
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Stuart Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 8:44 am
@BobKnob, Gary Thorn and Bill Clement!!! Now those guys were playoff hockey!!!
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Goring 19 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
@Jack the Lad, just keep Bruin’s “homer” Mike Milbury away from me.
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hmmm…well it wasn’t on my channel 4…Jeopardy was on…wierd.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:17 am
@tellmeY,
It was in fact channel 4. When I posted to you, The Canucks had just scored the game winner, so you probably just missed the broadcast. If your still in LA for the next game it will be channel 4 I believe. Good luck.
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
@Dominick, I believe the next game is on Versus, I thought I heard the announcers say that after the end of game 2.
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
@Dominick, versus monday, and next game, then last three NBC
[Reply]
Question
Can anyone tell me what type of media player is required to view video clips posted on this blog? I am trying to view the Lombardi interview on my android phone and it doesn’t seem to load. Can anyone help me out here? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks,
Steve
[Reply]
ok analyzed, thanks Rich!
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and…how’s Kopi doing these days?
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Sorry Rich I can’t wait.
In the forth video here Dean does say he will add another top forward if he can. He thinks the Kings need more puck possesion and when they don’t complete passes they look slow.
http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=-6&id=116857
[Reply]
rumpa#19 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 7:47 am
@Osaka, THANKS FOR THE FEED.Sorry for yelling.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:00 am
@Osaka,
I repied on the wrong reply, but thanks for the link.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
@Osaka,
Interesting comment by Dean “the ultimate speed is speed through the puck”. I have been trying to talk about this but haven’t really been able to sell this to very many fans. I absolutely agree with him here, I think that is an area that needs to be dealt with. It’s not just replacing slow players with fast players but utilizing puck movement to speed things up.
Obviously I take it a step further by identifying play along the boards in the offensive zone, and DL stops short of that by stating he doesn’t know if it’s Posession, or Puck Management, but he does identify movement as a problem.
[Reply]
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:47 pm
@Dominick, When I was coaching little kids I was always trying to get this point across. You can’t skate faster than the puck, let the puck skate for you. Yeah any team can look fast if they are connecting passes. The team trying to defend will always be one step behind.
[Reply]
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
@Osaka, We need more puck possession so we employ a system in which we dump the puck in the zone and chase after it in the hopes of getting it back. Yeah, that makes sense.
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
@CB14,
Totally agree with you! Say one thing & keep doing the other.
[Reply]
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
@CB14, Let’s look at it like football. Time of possesion = puck possesion. Fast, wide open, skilled, passing offense doesn’t usually have the time of possesion in football that the ground and pound running game does.
Also don’t confuse puck possesion with offensive chances, it can be like soccer where there are very few. The Soviets played a puck possesion system and would average like 12 shots on goal a game. They didn’t want to shot the puck and risk losing possesion. North American shot, shot, shot is more entertaining.
The Kings do have an option to carry the puck in, but they only have one creative center and he played without a LW most of last year. I am sure you will see the Kings carry the puck more this season. The Kings do have a big team though and to play to their strength is on the boards. If you have speed and size on the dump and chase you can really cause a lot of problems.
[Reply]
King John Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
@Osaka,
Puck possession= Frolov
I think we need more than that!
How about finesse offensive skill and speed?
Loktionov has that but will he be suffocated to death?
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
@King John,
Puck possesion is dot to boards, Puck management is dot to dot. Possesion is not what the player does with the puck, but where he plays the puck. To play between the dots you need skill and speed, to play dot to boards you need strength and size. If anything Frolov was a management teams dream, because he could rule along the boards and no one could take it from him. Lokti doesn’t play a heavey game, so he cannot survive in a puck management game because he would get rubbed out along the boards. he needs open space between the dots to work his magic.
The Kings play a puck management style, where they play everything from the dot to the boards in the offensive zone. When you see fans like myself or some others calling for puck management I hope you’ll understand what we’re calling for.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:10 pm
Sorry, I’m calling for Puck possesion. I want to rid ourseleves of puck management unless were playing a team that is faster, or we have the lead.
Botston for the most part is a puck management team. Vancouver is a puck possesion team, if that helps as a refference point between the two.
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
plus I switched my teams when I first explained them. Possesion is dot to dot. Management is Dot to boards. Terrible typer.
Osaka Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
@King John, I think we’re close. Next year I think you will see a better balance of skill.
[Reply]
NEWS ON BRAD RICHARDS: So, for the occasional person who comes on here and states authoritatively, Come On Deano, open the pocket book! Get this guy! They might be interested in reading this, which in my opinion would put an immediate stomper on any ideas floating around that DL will really be in the race for Richards:
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nyr110605.html
If he’s too rich for Glen Sather’s blood, my guess is he’s too rich for DL’s as well. Especially as the Rangers are Desperate for a first line center. The Kings have a guy named Kopitar, and in a few years probably a reasonably well developed Schenn.
Btw, whoever turned me onto this website, thanks.
[Reply]
EJ Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:16 am
@number 6, while I agree that Richards will command a high price, I’m not assigning much credence to that article. After all, if the New York Post is their source, well . . . .
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:57 am
@number 6,
Interesting comment by Dean “the ultimate speed is speed through the puck”. I have been trying to talk about this but haven’t really been able to sell this to very many fans. I absolutely agree with him here, I think that is an area that needs to be dealt with. It’s not just replacing slow players with fast players but utilizing puck movement to speed things up.
Obviously I take it a step further by identifying play along the boards in the offensive zone, and DL stops short of that by stating he doesn’t know if it’s Posession, or Puck Management, but he does identify movement as a problem.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 10:59 am
@number 6,
Sorry, My post was meant for Osaka’s post. I clicked on the wrong reply.
[Reply]
Ravens Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 11:37 am
@number 6, I can’t remember how many times the pundits said the Kings where out of the bidding to get Kovalsuck…and then suddenly back in, it’s all a chess game, using the media as bait…one thing I’m fairly certain of, The Kings won’t go after Richards unless he goes at draft. DL is not going to be held captive by another FA driving the price up to the last minute
[Reply]
Goring 19 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@Ravens, yeah, I don’t see a repeat of the IK fiasco. Ravens, what’s your take, who do you think the Kings will go for in regards to trade/UFA.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
@Goring 19,
Goring, I’m not answering for Ravens, but a few months ago I checked the UFA’s and really there was virtually no one, absolutely no one I saw that would imo be interesting for the Kings. There were some dmen and goalies, and then as I recall a few centers (?) but certainly no left wings that I can think of.
And clearly if there’s one thing we don’t need it’s another free agent dman or goalie.
Just do a Google search of UFA’s and I think you’ll see.
Ravens Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
@Goring 19, your right, it’s one of the worst FA markets I’ve ever seen for good forwards, I hate to say it, but Richards agaent would probably be smart to advise his client to milk this thing, which would put us out of the running, if Richards is the type of guy I think he is, he might just go at draft to the team with the best chance, (which could be us) otherwise, Philly makes the most sence for a trade (not sure we love the idea), which probably means Carter or “insert philly forwrd name here”
Dominick Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@Goring 19, FA’s aren’t the only route. Maybe a midlevel deal, but trade will be the only real answer.
Poorman Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 3:19 am
@Ravens, Great strategy. Then the Kings Can get another Poni. I also don’t like DL hammering Penner. He should be hammering himself. DL puts Penner with a coach that ruins all offensive minded players. Have you guys ever thought that might be the source of his lack of motivation?
[Reply]
Player-X Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 7:14 am
@Poorman, Gee, that thought never occurred to me, except every single time I read you poasting it ove and over and over
CB14 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@number 6, Well that lowers my hope of signing Richards to a reasonable price deal, but if it’s true thats good that the Rangers would be out of it. The deal that I posted higher up on this page still seems somewhat reasonable to me. It would pay him 7 million the first 6 years, 3.5 the next year, 2.5 the year after that, and then 1.5 the last year. That’s 49.5 million dollars for 9 years, a 5.5 million dollar cap hit. Reasonable IMO.
[Reply]
tuan jim Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
@number 6,
I agree. He IS too rich for DL’s blood. Especially since Richard’s gonna want, or is only gonna be willing to take, a till-I-die contract at — probably at best — not a lot less than what he was making at Dallas.
He’s a great player, sure. But for a center-rich team that’s only beginning to realize its potential even without him, it’s a heavy price to pay — even with the touted $4-mil increase in the CBA cap.
Nevertheless, I expect DL to be sniffing the air for possible get-Richards scenarios.
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
@number 6,
Richards is a great player but we already have a #1 center and a plethora of skilled centers for our other lines. We need a winger and we have cap space. NJ has a plethora of wingers and no cap space. I know, many say it cannot happen, but just think of the possibility. NJ signs Parise to a 5 year deal that they cannot afford (thank you Kovalsuk). Brodeur is on his last legs. We package Bernier (or Jones or Zatkoff) with Simmonds or Richardson or Martinez or (insert player’s names here) who have reasonable contracts and send them to NJ for Parise. It works for NJ because they get cap space, a replacement for Brodeur and some really good players at a reasonable cap hit. We get the scoring winger we need who also happens to be a responsible defensive player. Since w eplay in different conferences< NJ wouldn't have to worry about Parise haunting them for more than a couple games a season. Wouldn't Christmas in July be great!!
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 8:26 pm
@DesertKing, I agree with you, Bernier or Jones, along with JJ or Martinez. That could work great for both teams. Getting Parise makes the Kings better, and if they can sign Richards as well, the Kings should be the team to beat in the West!
[Reply]
DesertKing Reply:
June 5th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
@puck73,
Lets not get greedy. We still need to sign DD and I don’t think we could afford both Parise and Richards. Of course, we will probably have Zeus’ money to apply to any deal.
Poorman Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 3:06 am
@puck73, Can you package DL and TM for Parise who will probably underperform. Now that would be a good trade.
Garrett Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
@puck73, Thats a big fat negative on JJ. Bernier and Martinez are enough – perhaps a pick too. But JJ has just as much upside as DD does IMO. You don’t let that guy go, not at what he is going to cost us vs. DD.
Sammuch Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 4:14 am
@DesertKing, YES I agree Parise would be better Money for the Kings. Plus this kid has speed he 27 soon and 4 years younger then Rich… he had one 40 goal year and 30+ goal 3 years and thats playing for NJ. He a steal of a deal. LW is are week point and that feel the gap. bring in Schenn and who needs Rich at 7 when you can have Schenn at 3 mil or bring in the russian.
Give them the russian a golie and Mart and hell give GReen as a bonus….
[Reply]
PP Anybody? Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 1:32 am
@number 6, We never get the big fish each year, so I expect to not be getting richards or parise or any other top flight guy out there this summer. What we have is what we have, and that means Schenn and Lokti will be battling it out for centering Westgarth and Richardson on the fourth line next season. Good times..
[Reply]
rumpa#19 Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 6:37 am
@number 6, Way to much.Turned someone one on to that site a couple days ago.If that was you your welcome.Got it on this site from someone myself.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
June 7th, 2011 at 6:00 am
@rumpa#19,
Yeah rumpa, in fact, it was you. So thanks again.
[Reply]
Hi Ritch,
How about an interview with Morris and Hex with all the fanfare about the Kings prospects?
Allot of the guys on The Farm have been there for two, three, four years. We see the stats, we know Manchester went playoffs 4/5 years, yet we know very little about our guys.
Give the boys in NH some love from LA, would ya?
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Yes lets be real here. Brad Richards is forsure the best looking UFA out there, and DL will pursue it. Thats not the problem. As someone stated earlier, many many teams are looking for a player like Richards, and to already be at slight cap crunch, we cant afford to sit around and deal with this guy. If its not quick, Deano get out! I think our best bet is too look at Phili for a trade. They have so much offensive talent, lets see, Leino , Giroux , Briere , Nodl , Versteeg , Richards , Hartnell , JvR etc , and yet year and year there goalie has let them down. I know how good we have it with the Quick and Bernier DUO, but i mean you have to be open about shopping Bernier. High value, for a critical time for this franchise to get a player we need, to show the NHL that were on our way..
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rick Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@Michael_DD8, Richards, while a great player, does not match our needs as well as a guy like Parise. We need finishers. Richards is a great assist man, but generally scores 25-29 goals in his best years. Parise is a true goal scorer – usually around 30-40+ goals. Not that it matters anyway since I think the chances of us getting either player are slim at best, but I would take a premier goal scorer over a premier set-up guy at this point in the Kings’ evolution.
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tuan jim Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@rick,
I’d love to have Parise in a Kings uniform. Ain’t gonna happen. Since he’s an RFA — a super-star RFA — the price not only in money but in draft picks could kill a team.
People forget that our original offensive line-up was shattered by injuries. Parse was out for the season, only returning when we were in the playoffs and he was no more ready to play than JW was last year when he tried to compete while still recovering from his fracture.
Poni was likewise injured. Yet his value to the team was established by our greater win-to-loss ratio when he was in the line-up. I don’t think we had an opportunity to demonstrate just what our offense could do. And because our defense was so solid, we were regarded — wrongly, I believe — as an UNcreative, dump-and-chase squad.
What I’d like to see is not so much a slew of expensive snipers, whose collective cap hits bury our chance to re-sign guys and force us on the road to Chicago-itis, but an increase in team speed. THAT’s where we’re hurting.
And I don’t wanna give up our SIZE, which won us many games last year. Contrary to what I read on this blog, I think the Kings are built for the playoffs.
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tuan jim Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
@Michael_DD8,
I think our present offense is underrated. Nevertheless, I want a Richards — Brad or Michael. But I’d prefer playing with the cap rather than trading a backup goaltender like Bernier, whom we have on a sweetheart contract for the next two years and even then he’s still an RFA..
Philly only wants to unload Carter, whose reputation for laziness and inconsistency rivals Penner’s. They’re Flyers are just not willing to put up the guys I want, however anxious they may be to work a trade with us.
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tuan jim Reply:
June 6th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
@Michael_DD8,
I meant “The Flyers” at the beginning of my last sentence.
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dough boy Reply:
June 7th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
@tuan jim, I disagree. I think Carter would be a great addition to the Kings. He’s a 35-45-80pts per season player or atleast 30-45-75pts. Kopitar Carter Schenn could possibly be the best center trio in the NHL. Also, we might be able to get Carter without giving up Bernier… Especially considering that Philly will have to unload a contract if they wish to sign Bryzgalov. Here’s to hoping we get Carter and Richards this summer…
Potential Lines: 1st: Richards-Kopitar-Williams…2nd: Penner-Carter-Brown…3rd: Simmonds-Schenn-Clifford: 4rth: Richardson-Lewis-Smyth…. Goalie: Quick/Bernier… Can u Say contender!!!!
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we dont need Richards or any other centers….Lokti and Schenn are more than aneough
Kopitar
Loktionov
Schenn
Lewis/Richardson
imagine the center depth and these players are only kids…let them play and learn, ur never going to get a 100% ready prospect unless he plays in the NHL fulltime. replace Handzus with Schenn this season and then Stoll with Loktionov the next
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tuan jim Reply:
June 8th, 2011 at 12:39 am
@Paul G,
Handzus is not replaceable.
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