DEAN LOMBARDI
This season: 46-30-6 record (2-4 in playoffs).
The good: In terms of drafting the development of young players, Lombardi’s tenure has been a success. He has brought in players such as Drew Doughty, Alec Martinez, Jonathan Bernier, Kyle Clifford, Trevor Lewis and Oscar Moller, as well as developing players such as Anze Kopitar and Jonathan Quick (picks made late in the Dave Taylor era) and Jack Johnson. In essence, Lombardi is doing exactly what he said he would, rebuild the team from the back end first. The Kings’ goaltending and defense is fully constructed and would appear to be in strong shape for years to come, and players such as Brayden Schenn and Andrei Loktionov appear ready to boost the forward ranks.
The bad: Over the past five years, Lombardi has done little to change the “book” on him, that he’s great at drafting and developing but shaky in terms of trades and free agents. To be certain, acquisitions such as Justin Williams, Michal Handzus, Willie Mitchell, Rob Scuderi and Matt Greene have proven to be solid. So are Jarret Stoll and Ryan Smyth, but they’re also being paid a large amount of money for secondary roles. By the end of the season, Alexei Ponikarovsky was a $3-million fourth-line winger. Then there’s Dustin Penner. Unless Penner turns things around next season, the most significant trade of the Lombardi era is going to go down as a flop.
Going forward: When does it all pay off? The 2011-12 season will be Lombardi’s sixth season, and while back-to-back playoff appearances certainly constitutes progress, more is expected than sixth- or seventh-place finishes in the Western Conference and first-round playoff losses. To be certain, Lombardi understands this. In order for the Kings to take another step forward, some of Lombardi’s prospects at forward must start to contribute at the NHL level, the Penner trade must work out and, perhaps, Lombardi must make another move for scoring help.
Fired.
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TheAcaciaStrain Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
@Ersberg, ohhh u tease, dont tease me, just the thought gets my happy
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TheAcaciaStrain Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
@TheAcaciaStrain, me happy*
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
@Ersberg, Uh,ok..I will be sure to call Sam macmaster, Dave Taylor, and the late George Maguire and tell them that Lombardi couldnt carry their jock’s.
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Ersberg Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
@puck73, You do realize you just compared a mediocre building GM to GM’s that should have never carried the title, right?
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CB14 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
@Ersberg, You do realize that DL built the San Jose Sharks into who they are today. Yeah he didn’t trade for Thornton or Heatley, but he drafted the players who got traded for those 2 guys. Here’s some of the players Dean drafted: Patrick Marleau, Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan, Marco Sturm, Jonathan Cheechoo, Ryane Clowe and Christian Ehrhoff. Not too shabby.
Here’s a list of players drafted by Dean Lombardi in the 4 drafts since he’s been the GM of the Kings. They include line-up regulars like Drew Doughty, Wayne Simmonds, Kyle Clifford, Alec Martinez, and Jonathan Bernier. Guys who are sure to be NHL regulars next year or a year later like Oscar Moller, Andrei Loktionov, Brayden Schenn, Thomas Hickey, and Vyacheslav Voinov. As well as our top prospects in the junior leagues/college Tyler Toffoli, Maxim Kitsyn, Linden Vey, Derek Forbort, and Nicolas Deslauriers. All of this in only 4 years. Plus he also traded Patrick O’Sullivan for Justin Williams, an absolute steal to say the least. Sure some of his decisions haven’t turned out great,( Penner ) but name a GM who has been perfect? I don’t think you can because there isn’t one.
Ersberg Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@Ersberg, Clowe and Marleau are the only two remaining Sharks, and one of them is playoff no-show. All of the LA non-roster players mentioned have precisely one thing in common: Zero or very limited NHL experience. Williams is good, but he shines in LA because who in LA is better for what he does? There are many better options as a top-3 winger, and far more resilient. And yes, the Penner deal ices the cake. Horrible trade.
Name a GM? Okay, any of other playoff GM’s and several that aren’t.
Corry Perry? Could have had him. Tyler Myers? He’s pretty good too, but Teubert was a better option. I would take Perry and Myers over all of the prospect you listed combined.
USHA#17 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
@Ersberg,
Look, its too soon to see how Penner plays out. We got him for a song, lets see if he sings next season.
The Poni thing…Poni consistently skated against the oppositions top players.
Williams…show me a more crafty forward.
Perry and Myers. 50/50 hindsight. I suppose if you are in another city you’d be saying “I’d take Doughty and Clifford over so and so and so and so any day
CB14 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
@Ersberg, How are you blaming DL for not drafting Corey Perry in 03 when he wasn’t even the Kings GM at that time? I don’t know how that’s possible.
Regarding your playoff GM’s, lets take a look at Boston Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli. In 07 he drafted Zach Hamill one spot ahead of Logan Couture. Yeah I know DL took Thomas Hickey who hasn’t panned out yet but d-men usually take longer to develope. Plus DL got Oscar Moller, Wayne Simmonds, and Alec Martinez in that same draft. Bostons picks that year have played a COMBINED 4 NHL games. While the Kings players drafted by DL in 07 have played in 397 NHL games. The Biggest thing with the Boston GM is that he took Denis Reul 4 spots ahead of the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Juraj Mikus. For that reason alone I say he’s a worse GM than Dean Lombardi.
39scars Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
@Ersberg, Quack
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Ersberg Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:52 pm
@39scars, That’s pretty good. Maybe you could spell your name for us a little later.
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phil Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Ersberg, although in DL’s defense, Perry was drafted in 2003 when Dave Taylor was the GM.
“Unless Penner turns…”
i think this was supposed to say USELESS
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kennynakamoto Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@Sebastian, If Penner actually contributed then i would have gave him an A cause i actually like DL but since Penner was a bust i gave him a b
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KFII Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@kennynakamoto, Come on that’s silly, Penner being a bust this year wasn’t DL’s fault.
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
@KFII,
What?! Dude, that guy had a reputation well before he came to the Kings. DL has long been quoted as saying he likes a guy like Ryan Smyth who has ‘no cheat in his game’. Well from what I saw this year on tele, Penner had a load of ‘cheat’ in his game as it was rare to see him compete.
Bill M. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:50 am
@Number 6,
And yet, it was the only moved to be made that didn’t have the name “schenn” firmly welded to it. And he was under pressure to make SOME kind of move. From who? Us. The same people who blame him for getting penner. The same people who would have screamed for his head if he had done nothing, which was, in retrospect, probably the right move.
RLane420 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
@Sebastian, Dont forget Zues the first year here was terrible, so was Williams. Lets give Penner till next year before we hang him up to dry. To many people around here want instant gratification. Lets see if he comes into camp in shape before we ship him out.
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I have to give him an “A”. He didn’t sell the farm for Kovalsuk, he has done what he said he would do (build from the goal out), and he has obtained free agents who have performed well (Whenner notwithstanding). This off-season is going to be tougher since there are no really significant UFA’s who can fill our needs. But wait, maybe there will be a sign and trade deal down the road that we haven’t thought off? DL works in the stealth mode, ie, we never know what he is going to do until he does it. Reference to the Whenner deal, we asked for the deal, we got the deal, and now we have to deal with the deal.
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Dominick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
@DesertKing, Sometimes the best move is the one you didn’t make. I know that angers alot of “I want a superstar now” people, but the moves he didn’t make, had sensible reasons.
Absolutely right on the Penner deal also. As far as Penner is concerned, some one pointed out the other day. Why is it that all the FA’s we sign, stop scoring when they get here? Is it that they are all busts, or that they have one common theme (or something like that). They come into a system that stymies offense, and tries to turn them into defensive 2 way players.
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RLane420 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@Dominick, BINGO we have a winner! The Caps have adopted our system and what happened to Ovi’s scoring. Penner is no Ovi and not many around the NHL are. Any player that comes here are going to have there scoring suffer. That being said Penner still needs to come to camp in shape. If he does he will be fine.
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eddie the jet Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@DesertKing, how do you give a guy an A grade who got nothing for matt moulson(2 time 30 goal scorer) brian boyle, scott parse and traded valuble assets for a slug(penner)!!!!
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@eddie the jet, I guess your not happy making the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, and really upset about possibly having the 2 best young goalies at a low cap hit…yep, he needs ta go yesterday ! lol
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RLane420 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
@puck73, I am sorry that going to the playoffs 2 years in a row (and losing in the first round) is enough for you. We should get better every year. This is the first year that didnt happen. If next year is the same fist round and out do you give him a B.
Stuart Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@eddie the jet, did I miss something? We got rid of Parse?
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King John Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:34 am
@Stuart, He probably means Purcell, who is doing very well on Tampa Bay averaging about a point a game assisting the top scorers; the Lightning are now advancing (Teddy gets the last laugh).
tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@eddie the jet, every NHL team has had players that ‘got away’. Ours isnt the only one (even thought it FEELS that way)
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kevin from toronto Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
@eddie the jet, would you have re-signed a guy (Moulson) who after his rookie contract, was 25 and had 10 NHL points? And you didn’t even draft him…
and Brian Boyle? He has 25 goals in the past 2 seasons (including this one)… big loss…
and as far as i’m know, Scott Parse is still on the team…
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Puckn-A Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
@kevin from toronto, Sorry but Moulson got those 10 points in 29 games played, which half the Kings forwards could not accomplish this year. He was good on the 4th line and TM wouldn’t give him a look cause he didn’t fit the TM 4th liner “mold”, yeah too bad he fit the 2nd line LW mold on 100% of teams and the 1st line LW mold on 10% of teams.
Pesus Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
@eddie the jet,
I blame moulson & boyle on TM
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dabronx Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
@eddie the jet,
Purcell was nothing in 60 games the year Tampa got him. It was this year he took off.
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dabronx Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
@eddie the jet,
And Boyle was nothing the year New York got him. He had a good year this year. Did we not resign Boyle or was he part of a deal?
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PRMan Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@DesertKing, I gave him an A, but on second thought should have selected B+. Letting Sturm go for nothing when Harrold never played since then and is now a UFA is a glaring mistake that cost us big in the playoffs.
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This team has the ability to win right now, but without any impact players it won’t get done. I don’t disagree with the way he has drafted and stock piled high end young players but he lost me at the GM meetings a few years back when someone asked him about his draft philosophy.
“If I had a chance to draft Gretzky, Orr, or Roy there’s no question I would’ve drafted Roy.”
He’s had chances to land a whale and the only guys he landed were Smyth via trade and a huge contract, Penner and his out of shape frame, and he overpaid just to get Scuderi here.
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
@David,
You said : ‘This team has the ability to win right now, but without any impact players it won’t get done. ‘
With that I agree.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:43 am
@David, “He’s had chances to land a whale and the only guys he landed were Smyth via trade and a huge contract, Penner and his out of shape frame, and he overpaid just to get Scuderi here.”
so if you had your way DL would have spent $6-$7M on a winger that hasn’t brought their teams any success (Gaborik, Kovalchuk) instead of giving half of that money to a top-4 d-man that is now underpaid based on what d-men are getting a year later.
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Ravens Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
@David, We have to remember that DL can only get free agents that actually want to come here, until now knowbody wanted anything to do with the Kings, They knew we where rebuilding but not ready, that’s why we had to over pay for Scuds and Smyth, to come to a team that might not contend for a cup for 3-4 years. I don’t think he had many options, as far as letting some players go like Moulson and Boyle, I don’t know how lond your supposed to hang on to someone who isn’t scoring or using their bodies to throw big checks. Those guys finally pulled thier heads out of their arses, when they got let go by the Kings. Having said all that he gets a B from me.
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What Rich has described is exactly correct. The Kings still lack a power winger and a dominant second line winger. Schenn may fill the bill and Lokti has the talent bet neither are sure bets for next season.
Also DL is backing TM too far, I think. TM is the typical long time coaching retread so many GM’s fall in love with. It’s the safe way to go but where would that have left coaches like Guy Boucher and Mike Babcock? Those guys are coaching teams that are still playing.
DL is too afraid to trade away his prospects (the Penner deal was an exception) and would be well advised to follow in the footsteps of his old mentor Lou Lamirello. He was not afraid to make moves. He wasn’t always right but got it right more often than not.
I give DL a solid B.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
@Crown Royal, I’m with you about 95%. I think the reason he traded a prospect this season is (as he pointed out) that he’s now got enough wealth of prospects to trade without missing too much. Otherwise, I pretty much agree.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:45 am
@Crown Royal, follow Lou? overpay for a guy that doesn’t win? no thanks.
the Kings got their power winger who scored 6 points in 7 games with his center.
DL will make the moves when the right guys become available.
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Crown Royal Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:22 am
@Dave,
I don’t think Lou wanted to pay that much for Kovalchuck. That was ownership’s idea.
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Belexes Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
@Crown Royal,
Not only that, but even though that whole Kovi episode left us feelin like the bride left at the alter, with very bitter feelings, we would have been a far better team this year with a 40 goal scorer.
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Belexes – because NJ was better with Kovalchuk?
I think he did a great job! He put a team together that “could have” gone a long long way and he hasn’t gutted the organeyezayshuns future! That said, get to work DL, there’s plenty more to be done…
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Next year is clearly the bubble line. 2nd round is probably enough to justify running out the contract, but if they take a step back now (even with all the new rookies they’ll be playing) it’s going to be bye bye time.
personally I like the ownerships patience. If he somehow talks Richards into looking at LA, I think they’ll open the purse strings for him.
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Boring (NO) offense with gaping holes in the line up.
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Pesus Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@johnjuan,
Again I think we have talent, blame your points on TM
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johnjuan Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:26 am
@Pesus,
He brought TM.
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He’s assembled enough talent to go way furter in the playoffs than we’ve gone under his leadership so far. It’s not his fault. We have the best goalie tandem in the NHL (in my opinion). We have a great team that can win for years to come. He’s signed Justin Williams (our BEST forward) to a long term contract. Now… if we’d get a head coach that can actually coach. Why do we not have snipers knocking at our door to play for us? No highly offensive winger is going to want to play for a team that knows nothing more than defense and dump and chase. Hypothetically… would you pay Alex Ovechkin as much if he were only a 20 goal scorer? Murray’s sytem would make Ovechkin a 20 goal scorer instead of a 50 goal scorer. I give Dean lots of credit. If he’d fire Terry Murray I’d give him an A for sure.
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Crown Royal Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@Duckbasher,
I agree with much of what you’ve just posted. TM’s concept of coaching is very narrow and limiting. This reflects on DL’s vision as a General Manager. With the right coach DL may very well be on the right track. With DL as the coach he is on the wrong track!
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Crown Royal Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
@Crown Royal,
I meant with TM as the coach!
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johnjuan Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@Duckbasher,
If we still had Labarbara instead of Quick EVERYONE on this blog wpould be calling for Lombardi and Murray’s heads.
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Pesus Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@johnjuan,
Dont get your point, I am calling for TM’s head. I feel he is holding us back and TM makes every move DL makes, look horrible
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rick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
@Duckbasher, Williams is our best forward? Ever noticed the guy wearing No. 11 for the Kings? Check him out – he is pretty good…
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I gave a B. Think hes doing an ok job and really cares about winning. I think DL problem is TM. Its hard enough to bring in a player but when he does that players never pans out cuz of TM stupid D first system. So every player DL bring in sucks? Sorry, thinks its just the system. Would of gave an A if TM got fired. Dont ask cuz I dont know who to bring in but then again i dont get paid millions to figure that out.
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I gave him a B. It’s not so much what DL has done, but what he didn’t do. He didn’t get in a bidding war for Kovalchuk; he didn’t fire TM when lots of us were thinking he should; he didn’t um…didn’t… I can’t think of anything else.
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Solid “B” I think. And this off-season and next year’s trade deadline deals will tell the story. If the young guys pan out we won’t need him to be brilliant in FA or trades, other than maybe a tuning trade at the dealine (like he did with Modin).
I don’t mind that he only tried one big move this year (Penner). This wasn’t really our year to win a Cup. But next year might be, so his moves will be more closer scrutinized starting now – and rightly so…..
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Crown Royal Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@Weasel,
I agree the Penner trade was the right idea. It still may work out.
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Weasel Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:08 am
@Crown Royal,
I’m still hopeful as well. Maybe even a little optimistic. At his salary we all have to be!
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. . . and he knows how and when to blow his stack. After getting only 2 wins in 12 games at the start of the year, Lombardi attacks Mike Murphy for the high-sticking Hanzal goal and the Kings (miraculously) turn it around with an outstanding second half of the year. Then, like a true gentleman, lombardi apologizes saying that Murphy “is a bigger man than me.” Lombardi gets an A, but the pressure is on for next year.
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Pesus Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@BluLiner,
Blowing up is the coaches job, when u go off on the refs or the league for its terrible replays we had against us u r tellig ur team I got your back, even if it cost me some $. I had a problem with what TM said after the ottawa game. “We should of played harder, should never of come down to that.” I’m sure the players who gave 110% took well to that.
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fsd1 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:25 am
@Pesus, We all know you hate TM, but you are really going out on a limb here, what TM said after that game was the total truth, I don’t give a crap if they gave a 110 percent the truth of the matter is if the players had played to their ability that one non call should not have made a difference. If the players didnt like what he said tough nuts, find another team. Pour me another glass of koolaide DL and please add some TM to it.
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I gave DL an A as well
Again, he’s not eprfect and I didn’t grade him based on perfection.
The nuclus of this team is as strong as it’s ever been. He’s built this team the proper way. Build from within and add the ancillary pieces later on thru FA or trade.
Look at our core and the age of our core? I don’t think it could get much better than it is for Kings fans these days,at least long term.
The trade for Penner certainly hasn’t worked out, but we all thought it was the right mvoe at the time. We were desperate for a LW who could score. It didn’t work as planned.
The Poni FA signing didn’t work out as well. that’s on Poni and nobody else. There were way too many games he didn’t show up.
It was basically a trade off…Poni for Frolov. Neither one gave us what we needed. The good part about the Poni signing was it was just a 1 year gig. he’s probably gone!.
We’re in good shape thanks to DL…we have plenty of cap room to sign our core and still room to sign FA as well as make trades.
Excellent job!
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KungFu King Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
@nykingfan, I sure wish I had teachers with your blind compassion while growing up, I could have made it into Harvard!:-D A’s for D.L. & T.M.?!? For the record, I gave a B and C+, respectively and felt generous with the latter. Quick recap: The Kings got bounced in the first round for the second year in a row and prior to that, hmm, well, those were the rebuilding years.
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Choralone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
@KungFu King, These are STILL the rebuilding years.
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KungFu King Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@Choralone, HA! (I have nothing more to say about that).
David Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@KungFu King, Agreed, I gave him a D+ and I listed a few comments above. I actually think Murray can only do so much with what Lombardi gives him. I gave Murray a B+ but Lombardi did very little if anything to improve this team this season.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:48 am
@David, say what? willie mitchell? trading no roster players to bring in Penner. what do you want him to do?
Barry's Mullet Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:00 am
@nykingfan, Well said!
DL has done everything he could in a fairly short amount of time. He had ZERO to work with when he first arrived. Team has already made the playoffs the last two years. Is it his fault Kopi got hurt? Is it his fault the players refuse to shoot the puck on the PP? Is it his fault the players we want and need don’t want to sign in LA?
We have one of the best group of young core players other GM’s would love to get their hands on, not counting what we have in the piggy bank down in Manchester that are almost ready.
If people want to continue to drink the kool-aid around here and believe this team could have won the SC this year with what we have…..go back to watching a real conspiracy develop with the Dodgers.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:45 am
@Barry’s Mullet,
Wait Barry. ZERO. OK. There was Dustin Brown who with the exception of Kopi and JW was our best forward. Then speaking of Kopi, he was here too. Jonathan Quick had already been drafted by DT. Finally there was Lubo (who hasn’t done badly for himself), and Cammelleri and Pavel Demitra…. so he definitely had some chips to work with that were turned into either other players or draft choices.
Don’t get me wrong, he made some very good moves with them, but still to infer that this was a totally barren club that he constructed from nothing is simply not the case.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
@number 6, the minor leagues were barren – there were a few quality players on the big club but they hadn’t produced anything.
If you look at what he did with San Jose, he built them up nicely. They are a playoff team pretty much every year and are fighting for the division win consistently. BUT, they still fail in the playoffs. He’s done his job consistently, it’s down to the players and coaching staff to play 100% every night and WANT TO WIN.
A!
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Renbe Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
@Jeremy, If you are a playoff team every year but still fail in the playoff and its up to the players that takes us…right back to the GM and coach.
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Tony Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
@Jeremy, This constant talk about how DL built the Sharks is comical…he hot FIRED by the Sharks!!!!
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Solid B from me. I think he messed up with Sturm, but that was a fairly minor issue in the big picture.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:06 pm
@KC23, Yeah, he gambled and lost, especially considering Penner and Sturm together, but as you say, big picture.
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tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
@KC23, concur about Sturm. DL pretty much owned up to it in one of his usual short answered to the point brief interviews Rich posted a while back.
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Puckn-A Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 1:07 am
@KC23, He messed up big time with Sturm, he had 9 points in 17 games after coming back from knee surgery. Imagine if he had more time with the team. They used Harrold in 19 games the entire season, that should of been a no brainer to expose him to waivers. Dean is smart but can be so dumb about the talent he already has. He let go of Moulson who got a million from the Islanders but gave Poni 3 million to score 1/6 of Moulson’s goal total. Name any King in the last 2 years to total 60 goals. Yeah, I know he’s on a last place team but that argument is weak considering he faces all the other teams (that are better) top stopper lines and still puts up points.
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I gave him a B+. The team is progressing nicely. Remember, only 2 years ago we hadn’t tasted the playoffs for years. This year was a bit of a letdown – I would have considered this season a success had we made it to the second round – but I can’t lay the blame at Lombardi’s door. Game-changing forwards don’t grow on trees, and you can’t trade spare parts for them, despite what posters and their NHL 11 trade history say differently. I also think the Penner trade will work out well for us next year.
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At best a D+. Even a broken clock tell the right time twice a day!!!Draft Bernier, Doughty (you got the 2nd pick how tough is that) Schenn maybe. Lewis, Toubert (see Penner) Forbort? More free agent misses than I can post. 2006 no playoff 27th? 2007 no playoffs 28th? 2008 no playoff 25th? 2009 8th seed first round, 20010 7th seed out first round. We have a great core of young players but just not the right pieces to complement them. They have out grown Murry and need an infusion of a different GM. Look at Sharks and the years he was their and the changes they had to make for the possibility of getting to the next round. I’ve been a fan since 1979 and have seen it all. This years playoff collapses were the most disappointing loses since Stickgate and that’s a lot of games.
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tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:11 pm
@Renbe, -1
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
@Renbe, Disapointing huh? Looks like you conveniently left out the mid 80′s when Maguire was the GM and we were a bottom feeder and a joke, AND…TRADED AWAY 21 YEAR OLD LARRY MURPHY!…Brilliant. Dean Lombardi is a rocket scientist compared to any other GM we have had.
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:13 am
@puck73,
I think we need a seperate section for those of us who have had to live through McMaster, Maguire, and even #30 and #18 (my favorite King of all time). I would bet that a little perspective will go a long way.
I gave him a B+.
[Reply]
Tony Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
@Renbe, Totally agree. Giving him credit for drafting Doughty is hilarious…no brainer…my dog woulda picked doughty. Why don’t we instead ask him why he picked Hickey instead of Logan Couture (among others that were still available) and how about my favorite: Colton Teubert instead of Calder Trophy winner Tyler Myers….incredible!
[Reply]
BobKnob Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:16 am
@Tony,
Now, can you just let us know who to draft this year instead of after the fact? That would be really helpful, thanks.
[Reply]
puddle Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
@BobKnob, LOL, you speak truth.
johnjuan Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:31 am
@Renbe,
We could have had Couture instead of Schenn.
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:14 am
@johnjuan,
I’ll keep Schenn.
[Reply]
fifth line Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:48 am
@johnjuan, wrong, couture and hickey were 2007 draft, schenn was 2009 draft.
[Reply]
kingsfaninSB Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
@johnjuan, schenn is gonna be better in the long run. hes just younger
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:51 am
@Renbe, wow – how about simmonds, loktionov, martinez? DL took over a terrible team with bare cupboards and now he has possibly the most talented minor league system, the youngest core in the NHL and cap space. fire him!
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:14 am
@Dave,
Yup…
[Reply]
Renbe Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
@Dave, Simmmonds Ill let you know at the end of next year. Loktinov at last check is still in minors and has proved nothing. As much as I like the job Martinez did this year he will be the 7th defense-man next year. Especially with all those young defense-man I keep hear are going to make the team next year. Who else are they going to replace. DL is not the guy to get us any further. .
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
@Renbe, really? if i recall, simmonds was a 2nd rounder and is a regular 3rd line player. Loktionov was a 5th rounder with tons of talent and has already played well in the NHL. he just needs to stay healthy. Martinez was also in the later rounds and even though I hope DL shops him, he played like a bona fide NHL d-man this year. plus Clifford in the 2nd round.
that’s three quality NHL players and one soon to be picked after the first round in the last three years. i’m not sure you can name another GM that has done that.
and btw, Moller was 2nd round as well and even though he hasn’t stuck yet he will be an NHL regular at some point.
Renbe Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 10:42 am
@Renbe, Dave that’s some great research and I appreciate you point of view but know in my final comment on this subject a list of poor DL choices to go with my no top line players YET.
DL BUSTS
Willis
O’sullivan
Lundmark
Heward
Ward
McCauley
Preissing
Calder
Nagy
Aubin
Jones
Elkins
Qunicey
Ellis
Segal
Modin
Halpren
Ponikarovsky
Strum
Cloutier
All I could think of for now
Puckn-A Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@Renbe, How were Quincey and Sturm busts? I think they did well, also Modin was good for stretches, Elkins hasn’t had a channce yet so we’ll see. The rest of the list is pretty weak sauce.
Renbe Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
@Dave, 5 years time 10 picks that 50 draft picks name me the top 6 forward he drafted in those 50 picks. NONE. Top 4 defenseman Doughty a no brainier. 1 for 50 so far. I think I could beat that.
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 12:04 am
@Renbe, well, it’s only been five years. that means these kids are now 23 at the oldest. the first three years he concentrated on defense and goaltending and did very well.
here are his draft picks…
06 – first year
Bernier – great pick
Lewis (acquired in Demitra trade) – solid year, showed he belonged in NHL. not sure if he’s going to be top-6 but he’s a valuable player.
joey ryan – don’t know anything about him
zatkoff – not sure if he’s NHL quality but he played well in Manchester this year
Holloway – could make team next year
rounds 4, 5 and 6 – no one that’s made any real progress
overall, not a bad draft. 2 NHLers, 2 quality AHL players that could crack the NHL.
2007
Hickey – been injured, we’ll see
Moller – NHL talent, can he figure out how to play the NHL game?
Simmonds – top-9 guy, great late in round 2
Martinez – quality NHL d-man in round 4
King – cracked NHL this year, not sure if he’ll stick.
rounds 3, 5 and 7 didn’t produce anything
2008
Doughty – he made the right decision over Bogosian
Teubert – turned into Penner, so that could work out
Voynov – crazy talent, we’ll see
Loktionov in round 5 – top-6 talent that can’t stay healthy
5 other picks all have potential and most are still in system
2009
Schenn – top-6 talent that no one questions
Clifford – arguably played top-6 role in playoffs at 19
no one else in NHL yet but picks include Deslauriers, Berube, Vey and Kozun who all were standouts in juniors this year.
2010
obviously too early to see anyone in the NHL, but Toffoli led his league in scoring, Weal almost led his and Kitsyn was a standout in his.
so in 06-09 (can’t count ’10 yet) DL has produced 10 players that have played in the NHL and 6 that are regulars in the lineup.
i don’t know for sure but i doubt there are many GM’s that can say that, especially since they are all still with the Kings.
Let’s take Detroit as an example – they are viewed as the best drafting team in the league. how has Holland done in the same time period?
06 – zero players on current roster
07 – 0 players on current roster
08 – 0 players on current roster
09 – 0 players on current roster
only 3 players drafted during that time have seen more than 2 games of NHL action.
pick a team – Chicago? Cup winner…
06 – they drafted Toews in round 1 (#3 overall)
07 – Kane drafted 1st overall
08 – Ben Smith has played 6 games
09 – Kruger has played 7 games
that’s it…
try and find a GM that has had more success.
Eric K Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
@Renbe, Kyle Clifford? Remember, he was considered a pretty big reach.
[Reply]
Hey Rich, now that you have pretty much had us rate the whole team, are you going to do one of these threads for yourself? I would love to see how we rate you and the comments that follow. We could easily get to a 1,000.
[Reply]
SLIM Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
@DesertKing,
Your not kidding…..
His head would explode..
Go Rich Go….
[Reply]
He got a B+ from me.
It’s disappointing that he has been slow in finding the right veteran players to compliment the upcoming talent, and that some of the upcoming talent hasn’t worked out on the offensive side. Yet, I can’t see how he’s supposed to have done better. The only thing I question is the coaching/leadership. There have been long stretches of foundering this season, and I don’t really think the coaching staff and/or leadership does an adequate job of adjusting, within a game or a stretch of games.
I’m hoping for a “break-out season” not dissimilar to the 09-10 season, in comparison with the season before it. This would mean at least winning a playoff series, if not two (or maybe taking the second series seven games.) If they’re going to do that, they’ll have to take a long hard look (between the coaches and Lombardi) at how they’re going to beat San Jose and Vancouver (and perhaps Chicago), while maintaining an advantage over the rest.
[Reply]
Pesus Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
I agree, always enjoy reading your posts. Even after a bad loss when most of us come to vent, (myself included) your posts always have a calm, well thought out statement.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:09 am
@Pesus, Thank you! I also enjoyed your post on TM. As time passes, I find myself more and more skeptical of him.
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MauiWauiKingsFan Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, I’m hoping for a Stanley Cup! Nothing short of that is acceptable to me. Why would you only hope for a second round loss playing 7 games.?
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 5:27 am
@MauiWauiKingsFan, Why wouldn’t you think I hope for more? This is the meaning of “at least.”
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Epic Fail, as far as giving the Kings youth a chance to win, by aquiring shoty good luck free agents and dumb trades. Penner trade? huh? Did they scout him first, as to why the Oilers wanted to dump him? Horrible. Poni was horrible waste. Thats crap.
Last season, before the season even started, I took a look at some of the UFA’s and a few RFA’s and players I liked. I saw 3 that I personally liked for the Kings. Steve Downie, Dominic Moore & Sean Bergenheim. This is no lie and no joke. Look how well those type players have helped Tampa Bay. Playoffs so far….12 points, 8 points, 8 points. The regular season saw them doing really well also…..not perfectly awesome, but better than the crap DL keeps giving us. Tampa is going to the 3rd round.
Steve Yzerman is no dummy. DL is. If I could manage to look at existing free agents last year as an amatuer, and come up with the same moves that Yzerman made, trade or sign, should I be the GM?….what the hell is going on with Dumbardi? There is talent out there to be had, DL failed to help our core period, season after season. How long can our young talented core wait for the right moves and chemistry, until they are to old and traded? DL is ruining the Kings potential.
The Future Kings GM Hath Spoken
(my application is ready)
[Reply]
David Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
@KingsFanSince72, +1,000,000
[Reply]
FKA PakiFro Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@KingsFanSince72,
St. Louis, Lecevalier, Stamkos
It’s easy to have good role players when you’re top three forwards are all 90 point players and two have scored 50 goals in the league. The kings dont have a lack of the Downies and Moore types, they have a lock of the Lecavalier, Stamkos types. The game breakers, not the supporters. Look at Clifford, Richardson, and Simmonds numbers in the first round and compare those to Downie, Moore, and Bergenheim. I think the Kings win the third line battle, or at least come up as a draw…
[Reply]
PP Anybody? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@FKA PakiFro, Well, when you pick players like Hickey with your 4th overall pick, Trevor Lewis in the first round, and Derek Forbort, instead of some first round offensive skill, then DL is really painting us into a defensive corner. Besides Doughty, Dino has picked no game breakers whatsoever.
[Reply]
FKA PakiFro Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
@PP Anybody?,
Yep, you’re right about that. I’m not arguing that, I’m saying third liners are not the problem.
tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@PP Anybody?, Doughty is a freak. Dmen usually dont develop until they are mid 20′s. DL has only been drafting for 5 years now, it takes time for picks to develop. He focused on Dmen and goal and look what our strengths are now. If schenn ends up being a bust I might agree with you, but even he is a couple years away. Vey? Kitsyn? Toffoli? lets talk in 2-3 years about DL getting game breakers.
Puckn-A Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
@PP Anybody?, I believe Minnesota drafted Lewis and we got their pick and POS for Pavol Demitra.
39scars Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
@KingsFanSince72, We played 7 rookies, any more and we miss the playoffs
Can u post the link to where you said get these guys last summer
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:52 am
@KingsFanSince72, fail
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PP Anybody? Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:53 am
@Puckn-A, Almost right. We traded to get the 17th slot that year, then DL chose Trevor Lewis. We did also get O’Sullivan in that deal, who was Minnesota property. Which just bolsters my point of what was DL thinking?
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
@PP Anybody?, an aging Demitra for a first and O’Sullivan was a good gamble. the Kings were in a position of trying to get younger and adding assets. Demitra is out of the league and didn’t really have another great season after he left the Kings as he was hurt all the time. Lewis is still very young and played a key role for the Kings last year and DL turned O’Sullivan into Williams.
the Demitra trade was a 100% win.
Puckn-A Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 11:46 pm
@PP Anybody?, Ahhh ok, thanks. Was that the year Giroux was drafted? If so I’m even more steamed. ( Sorry Trevor )
Barry's Mullet Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:14 am
@KingsFanSince72, If you have truly been a Kings fan since 72, have you been asleep for the last 40 years? How many draft picks (that turned out to be great or solid NHL players) got traded for rejects over that span. How many SC banners do we have hanging down from the rafters? How many great players did we have, that never got to taste the fruits of victory yet alone even make the postseason. The list is long and very embarrassing my friend!
Go back and watch the tapes because I’ve been around almost as long and NO GM has put together a nucleolus of players this good in such a short period of time. And if I was a FA 30+ goal scorer, I wouldn’t have signed to play in LA up until now for all the tea in China.
The Kings are getting close and if we are able to sign those one or two top FA forwards we need to get over the hump, you will have DL to thank for this becasue he will have been the one who made that happen.
[Reply]
DL gets a B+ from me. Getting Penner in a market that didn’t have much available may still turn out to be a nice move. We’ll see next season. DL is putting his team together, now I think he needs the right coach onboard, an I don’t feel TM is it. Again, we’ll see.
Can’t blame Dean for losses on the ice, that’s simply not his job. Next season may well be Dean’s watershed moment as a Kings GM.
[Reply]
Time to up the farm and get a scorer. Rick Nash, make it happen Deano. I know the B.J.’s will want alot, but to me he’s the “missing piece”. It’s either that or let the kids play (i.e. Kozun, Acevedo, Elkins, Holloway, Moller), the snipers in our system.
[Reply]
Steve Jensen Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
@HESPERIA STH,
I love Rick Nash. He would put us over the top. But we WOULD have to sell the farm to get him. Doubt it would ever happen.
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
@Steve Jensen,
Agreed onNash. He’d fit into this team nicely, but CBJ would definitely want the moon.
I also love Rick Nash. Too bad.
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:53 am
@HESPERIA STH, $7M+ cap hit, made playoffs once. that is not a DL-type player. no way he goes after Nash.
[Reply]
BobKnob Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:21 am
@Dave,
Dude, he’s only made the playoffs once because the team around him sucks. This isn’t basketball where you star player touches the ball 75% of the time on the offensive end and has a huge affect on the outcome. It’s a team sport, not an individual sport masquerading as a team sport.
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
@BobKnob, yes, hockey is the ultimate team sport. and when you spend almost 15% of your cap on a winger that plays one end of the ice your chances of winning go down seriously. that’s my point.
he’s a gifted goal scorer but not much else. goal scoring wingers are great but they can’t be your highest paid players.
Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:19 am
@HESPERIA STH,
Adios Kopitar… or Doughty…
[Reply]
Get some more scoring or GTFO
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@kennynakamoto, Pretty much exactly what I think. I do think both Murray and DL should have an * next to them because of Anze. These are the best two years in a LONG time for the Kings and there is superior talent on the way. As much as they drive me crazy, I have more fait in the DL/TM combo than any mgmt team I in quite some.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@Alex, unfortunatly with our history that isnt saying much.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@BrokeKingsFan,
OUCH! But unfortunately its been true for a loooong time!
[Reply]
No Kings GM is going to be successful in big name free agency. The further west you go, the fewer big name free agents you find. Those big name guys would have to specifically want to be a King, because they were born in the area, or have a family member/former teammate/good friend on the team, etc. Outside of that, all the Kings have to offer is money. The problem with that is that, all things being equal, the Kings have to overpay whatever overpayment a player gets from one of those teams further east(and especially in the east).
The Kings can get a Handzus coming off an injury, or a Mitchell in the same situation, Ponikarovsky, Stuart, Scuderi, guys like that, but even then, the Kings have to overpay. That’s just the reality. That’s the reality for most western teams. Just look at the history. Big name, elite level talent in free agency? It goes east. Very few exceptions.
The Kings will be built through the draft first, they have to make good trades second, their last option is free agency, and at best, it’s secondary level players(probably a bit overpaid).
[Reply]
Jgomez Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@KingsFan78, I completely agree with you. I was going to post the same type of comments on someone elses post here.
I remember us trying to get Luongo from Florida and it was a no go. He just didn’t want to come here. And that goes with a lot of players, like you said, they don’t want to come to Los Angeles. I just hope that once the league sees that our kings are serious business, then more players will be willing to come play for us.
[Reply]
He gets an A from me. He’s is doing everything he promised to do. I have no problem putting my trust in DL.
[Reply]
I gave DL a B just like I gave TM
It seems to me that the only guys who excell or live up to there offensive potential are guys who have played TM system for some time now. They have had the chance to learn the system and its becoming second nature which allows them to jump on offensuive opportunities when presented as opposed to always thinking about whether there in the correct defensive postion first and foremost. Kopi, Brown, Stoll, Smyth, now Williams (Im talking forwards here so no Dman mentioned). Frolov was another, he had time to learn the system and even though he didnt live up to TM expectations he was still a far cry better than what Poni gave us and his 19 goals this year even though underachieving would have been well recieved (thats not Ponis fault IMO) As has been stated here many times offensive guys IMO have to worry to much about the D responsibilities first off and it reduces there offensive threat. They now have to create new tendencies and are shunned at following the ones that got them to were they are. This brings me back to DL and his B grade. I think until DL addresses the system that TM employs or finds another coach to lead us to the promise land I dont think he will get an A from me. Maybe thats harsh but thats how i see it. As for TM’s B. He is a great coach and can teach some serious defensive hockey that is very good provided you have the time to learn(draft picks and guys with extended contracts) the system and make it second nature. Free agaent signings and trades really have it tough here and it shows on the stat sheet for sure. To the young kids i dont think there is a better coach out there but our core already has the defensive foundation and they need along with the offensive talent we have currently or will have the offensive know how and go for the jugular mantality that TM lacks. TM has done a great job but i just dont think he has what it takes to get us to the next level(and its not because of a lack of a 1st line LW).
[Reply]
BrokeKingsFan Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
@BrokeKingsFan, so basicly DL…….. you need to have a talk with TM and get him to loosen the defensive reigns just a little and you get an A+ from me. I realize the system is not your duty or responsibility but you employ and back the guy who does have the responsibility so in a roundabout way its on you as well.
[Reply]
Penner trade = FAIL
Like to Brayden Schenn and Andrei Loktionov playing next season
And we need a new head coach
[Reply]
johnjuan Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@armen,
We need a new head coach or an assistant that can coach an attack.
[Reply]
armen Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
@johnjuan,
Totally agree
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I have differing opinions about DL. I like what he has done with the overall system. I like the farm system that they have in place, from what they have done with really developing the Monarchs, down to moving the Reign out to Ontario. I think there has been a good amount of cohesiveness with building a whole organization from the bottom level up. This all sets us up with a good foundation for the long run.
But when I start looking at some of the other more direct impact choices of player acquisition, I disagree with some of the picks or solutions he has come up with. I would say it’s safe to say that he has not done a very good job with signing top tier free agents, or making any real impact trades. I am also actually on the fence with some of his drafting choices. I was shocked the day he picked Hickey with our 4th overall pick. I think that is now starting to play out as a total bust and waste of such a high pick. I also can’t believe he chose Trevor Lewis in the first round. Say what a you want about his 4th line play, but I don’t think a first round pick should hope to develop into a solid 4th liner. I am also not real high on his picking undersized players like Kozun, Weal, or Aszevedo. I know he was trying to take a chance on them, but I really don’t see them as being able to make it at the NHL level.
On the other hand, Schenn was a solid pick, and Toffoli, Vey, and Jordan Nolan(who might just be the next Clifford) are all solid picks. So, I’d say overall DL is a decent but not great judge of talent.
As for picking TM, if TM starts to lose with this team next year, I hope DL doesn’t hesitate to make a change. That’s about all I can ask for right now.
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:56 am
@PP Anybody?, don’t forget clifford, simmonds and loktionov. you have to remember the hickey pick was based on DL wanting to build from the net out. he needed a puck-moving d-man.
and let’s remember you are criticizing his picks and the guys aren’t even 25 yet. maybe give them another year or two before you call them busts.
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Evaluation (per Desert King’s request) : Hammond
The Good: Tireless worker. Incredible patience with a bunch of fanatics who sometimes got out of hand. When they (we) did, he treated (us) them fairly and firmly, and often with good humor. Took the job only after getting a promise from the organization that it would not interfere with his reporting, and he was eminently fair throughout the season, calling things as he saw them. Developed an on-air presence that was much improved as the season progressed, showing that a solid work and practice effort in front of the cameras paid off. His on-line reporting was often the first sourcing for other journalists, and we cannot recall any instance where a interview subject claimed Rich mis-quoted him/her.
The bad: Could use to put on a bit more weight. Looks light even on television with the camera-added 10 pounds.
Going forward: Rich may not realize it, because he’s too darned busy working, but his work on the insider site is as good as NHL reporting gets, and he’s spoiled his readers. Now that’s he’s set the bar high, he has to manage expectations for the 2011-12 season. He should also continue to be a valuable on-air presence next year during Kings broadcasts. No word on whether he’d consider a free-agency move to another franchise, but his rising stock makes that a possibility Kings fans will have to deal with.
[Reply]
Deadmarsh Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@Kyle, Bravo!
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DesertKing Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
@Kyle,
Perfect, thanks!
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
@Kyle,
Nice job! I think his weight is good, and if he’s light, Hammond isn’t far off, which is more than I can say for me! Must be all the In and Out!
Nice post!
[Reply]
Belexes Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
@Kyle,
+100
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either Schenn or Lokti or both get sent back to manchester next season i garaunte it! lets bet on it… any takers? I just dont see either of them playing the kind of hockey TM wants to see unfortunatly for all of us. there is a reason we dont have small skilled guys on our team. not a TM kind of player. these guys will never see the ice for 82 games as long as TM is at the helm.
[Reply]
kevin from toronto Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
@BrokeKingsFan, If Lombardi and Co. don’t re-sign Handzus, I’d take that bet.
[Reply]
PP Anybody? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
@BrokeKingsFan, I totally agree. I don’t think that TM will be happy enough with their defensive play under his system, and they won’t be able to bring to the table what we really need to add to this team, which is OFFENSIVE SKILL LEVEL. They will both probably get a small window of opportunity at the beginning of the year, but I don’t see them sticking right now either.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
@BrokeKingsFan, I think the organization works as a team. I really don’t think TM works in a vaccuum with those kind of decissions. It it my impression that DL and the assistant coaches have a say and they make those kind of decissions as a team.
I believe TM and the team uses that defensive system that everyone seems so anxious to get rid of … the one that got us in the playoffs two years in a row with marginal talent … I believe they are just playing the hand they’ve been dealt. They promissed to build the team from the defense and goal tending forward and that is exactly what they’ve done. Now its time to start building the fowards to match our outstanding group of defenseman/goaltending.
The Detroit system has done well bringing along their talent slowing in the AHL. Giving them plenty of seasoning. I believe that is the model DL is working. Gonna take a bit more time, but it is coming along.
[Reply]
I know Deano has drafted a lot of players who are starting to make their mark, but if Deano had drafted Logan Couture instead of Thomas Hickey, he would have addressed the need for a top 6 player and more scoring (and not have Couture play against us).
[Reply]
tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@phil, I think you are right on this one (of course hindsight is 20/20), so far, but TH still has a chance to show what he can do at this level. Just with the prospects we have now in the system ,I dont know if he will get the chance here. He might end up being shipped out in a package deal like Teubert.
[Reply]
PP Anybody? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
@phil, I was disappointed when he picked Hickey with that pick. I thought it was a total waste. Most analysts were stumped by that too. I had hoped maybe DL saw some real diamond in the rough there that I didn’t see, but it doesn’t look like it’s happening. I know it’s spilled milk, but we are grading DL and the moves he makes, so why not point it out. As for trading Hickey, if you were another team, would you jump at the chance to send us one of your elite scoring forward prospects, so you could get Hickey? I kind of think that teams aren’t exactly chomping at the bit on this one.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
@phil, It’s all speculation. Who knows how anyone would do under such drastically different situations. Couture got thrown in with a lot of very talented forwards the Kings don’t have. Just because he did it with SJ doesn’t necessarily translate to doing it here with the marginal talent we have at the foward position.
[Reply]
phil Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
@KC23, yes thats true, Couture might not have turned out the same way here. Problem is that Hickey hasn’t shown very much in Manchester – 24 points in 77 AHL games is not very impressive. In Hickey’s defense though, he has been slowed by injuries the past couple of years and this was his first full professional season. Interestingly, I looked up Central Scouting’s rankings in 2007 and Couture was ranked 19th. However, Hickey was ranked 26th. So give some credit to San Jose, but at the same time there are 5-6 other guys DL could have drafted that probably would be with the Kings now.
http://cdn.nhl.com/futures/cssrankings/2007final/07_final_naskaters_num.pdf
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:57 am
@phil, that wasn’t DL’s goal when the Hickey pick was made. his plan was to build from the net out and the plan has worked.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:02 am
@Dave, and what’s that plan? To make us a marginally successful team? Yes that has worked.
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phil Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:21 am
@PP Anybody?, DL’s goal in terms of the draft has always been to draft the best available talent. he has said this many times.
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
@PP Anybody?, you are looking at DL’s plan from the middle and not the end. of course DL’s plan wasn’t to make the playoffs twice and get knocked out in the first round. but he still has a very young core and his best prospects haven’t hit their early 20′s yet.
turning the Kings from perennial doormat to playoff success isn’t going to happen right away, especially in a cap system.
We are improving even while bring in a boat laod of kids. I believe we have the best group of goalies and goalie prospects of any team in the NHL (maybe Nucks are close). We have one of the top 3 defensive groups, NHLers and prospects, in the entire league. We have one of top group of forward prospects of any team in the league. 4 years ago we were the 26th best team for prospects per Hockey Future, and now we are number two. Please name one team that has had a better draft record the past 5 years. The real gems, and why DL and his team are best, are not the first round selections but the 2nd – 5th round selections,
Simmonds (not even rated in ISS),
Clifford (rated a thrid rounder at best),
Lokti (a steal in the fifth round),
Toffoli(one of the top players in juniors,
Moeller (has had some impressive NHL games),
Voynov(easily makes the NHL when he adds wieght),
King (will get a shot),
Vey (one of the top scorers in juniors),
Kitsyn(best player in the CHL playoffs),
Deslauries (will make it to the NHL before he is 25),
and fourth rounder Alex Martinez (plays in the NHL at 22 even though he is a defenceman).
No other team can come close, don’t try.
Let’s look at the players DL has traded for, picked up off waivers, or used some obscure rule to sign for free.
OD- one of the best mentor defencemen in the league
Drewiskie – an NHL defensceman
Muzzin- top defensive defenceman in CHL last year, second top offensive defenceman
Jones – made all-star team in his 1st AHL season
Smyth – through Quincey on Waivers
Not bad for the cost
Rich, I have to respectfully disagree with you on DLs most significant trade. I would go with Justin Williams for POS who is no longer in the league as the most significant trade. Our cost was almost nothing for a player that is one of the best two way right wingers in the league. Other trades where we came out ahead.
JJ for gleason + eric
Clune for Tukonen
OD for nothing
Richy for a 61st
Stoll+Greene for viz
Lewis for Dimetri
And then there are the trades that DL did not make
Kopi for ‘the wall’
DD and simmonds for Kovi
Schenn for MPS and a second
How about those FAs, he is getting better every year.
2010 – Big Willy- best defenceman available
2009 – Scuds – best defenceman available
2007 – best power forward available
DL is not perfect, but look at the organizations best 30 players 4 years ago compared to the top 30 today and there is simply no comparision. Having said all of this the most important thing that DL has done is to change the culture. The Kings use to be the training ground for players to go to “real” teams. Now we are the best young team in the league and experienced players want to come here. Second, our players for the most part are now in world class condition. Do we have further to go, heck ya, but let’s never forget where we came from. easy A+
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
@jet, Jet, this is a Pulitzer from you ! You come see me at the rookie camp, fanfest, or frozen fury and we will make sure you are compensated with a cold beverage…Excellent post, keep killing them with facts and information !
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tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@jet, Someone who truly gets it. I cant beleive some people who say they have been fans since BC still dont get it either! That just baffles me.
PS- i assume you mean zues in 2007 right?
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kevin from toronto Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
@jet, kevin from toronto likes this
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DesertKing Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
@jet,
Dude, that was awesome!
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Kingsfanone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
@jet,
Impressive. Most impressive. The force is strong in this one.
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SLIM Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
@jet,
How much did DL pay you for this post?
My head is spinning from all this info..
Well played..Kind sir…
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39scars Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
@jet, Looking good
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Kyle Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
@jet, Ridiculously well done. Thank you.
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King Alex Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
@jet, Bravo! From where we were to where we are now as an organization is a remarkable transformation! DL is the best GM we have seen in a long, long time!
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:59 am
@jet, this post should be required reading for anyone else posting about DL.
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laikaloco Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:40 am
@jet, this post is probably the best that has ever been posted on this site…I’m just sorry I didn’t write it. This is exactly why I gave DL an A grade. Kudos, Shakespeare…
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- ViC - Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:52 am
@jet, this is why I never post on here when it comes to stuff like this, cuz I don’t want to say things that aren’t facts and don’t know what I’m talking about. Thanks for the amazing post, perfect kings knowledge for my brain
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:29 am
@jet,
Awesome treatise! This is clearly the most well thought, well explained post in a long, long time.
Very deserving of an “A”
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:48 am
@jet,
You spend most of your time with quick little oneliners, that are very enjoyable to read. It’s an even bigger treat when you actually take a momment to write out a detailed post. Excellent work, and I couldn’t have done a better job if I tried.
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HawKings Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
@jet, Excellent job and thanks for taking the time to write it and use facts to support your position! You should win the Hammond “Hammer” award. I think a lot of people forget where this team was before DL came in.
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jet Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@jet, Thanks folks, I appreciate the support and I am sure the Kings do also. Anyone else chomping at the bit for Rookie camp?
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MauiWauiKingsFan Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
@jet, How did the Kings come out ahead in Visnovsky for Stoll/Greene? Didn’t V just lead the league for points by a defenseman (or was right there at the top). Stoll and Greene are nice players but neither is an elite player that they should have received for him.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
@MauiWauiKingsFan, but the last two years Stoll and Greene clearly had more impact. yes, Visnovsky had a great year this year, but 1 great year and 2 not great years for what he’s paid isn’t great. plus, we have Doughty and Johnson to play Visnovsky’s role.
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jet Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
@MauiWauiKingsFan, Hey Maui, thanks for the challange. Viz played 107 games the following two seasons for the Oilers. He was then traded for Ryan Whitney who played 35 games this season. He weighs a buck 75 and he will be 35 to start the next season. That is a bad combination. In 6 playoff games he had 3 assists and was a -2. Granted he was in a tough position with the Ducks dumbell D (all old or all very young).
We recieved two players who are leaders, who work very hard during the off season, at a time when beach vollyball was the Kings offseason. Stoll and greene jump started the culture change in LA.
Having said all this I do still love Lubo and I wish him well during the regular season next year.
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I cant say enough good things about Dean Lombardi and how much he has taught me as a fan. Before he got here, I didnt realize how important Manchester was to the overall picture of this organization. What he has done for our defense and goaltending in 5 seasons has made us one of the toughest teams to play against in the NHL. I think this offseason he is going to bring us a player or 2 either via free agency, or a trade, that has experience and will take the Kings from being a good team, to a Great one ! Gone are the days of the phoenix Roadrunners who very rarely ever developed a plum thanx to that Bank defrauding, baseball card trading, coin collecting, Bruce ‘The soap on the rope kid” Mcnall. I would love ta see how that crook would have done with a salary cap like Dean has ta deal with, HE WOULD FAIL…AND OF COURSE, STILL GO TA JAIL !
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Kingsfanone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
@puck73,
Still hatin’ on the McNall. Nice!
Hey, I also miss the Long Beach Ice Dogs, whom the Kings would throw a player or few down there. Loved going to see a Dogs game! Still wear my Dogs baseball cap often.
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I gave DL a B. With that being said, If the results are the same next season I will give him an F-
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With the amount of high picks he’s had we should have more elite talent.
Plus, he gave away a ton of talent – Cammy, Fro, Boyle and on…
I gave a C and don’t know how it could be much higher than that.
Developed Quick and Kopi??? I think that’s a stretch. Kopi, especially, is a generational talent who is solely responsible for his development.
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laikaloco Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:54 am
@Cristobal, he HAS drafted elite talent…it’s just not like football or basketball where a high draft pick can just step in and make a difference very often. Why was Burke so upset when Dean drafted Schenn? Why does everyone ask for him in a deal? Sure, throw Hickey at me if you want, but that draft has turned out to be Patrick Kane + everyone else. Some others (JVR, Couture) have just started to become NHL players of note.
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Here is my issue with the ranking, DL may not read this blog however he hears from many sources at times what is required for the team.
Again I argue, we did not have to pressure nor suggest a player at the deadline for pickup. Regardless who we got they couldn’t possibly put us in the Stanley Cup finals. Now everyone that suggested we should make this big trade, has egg on thier face including Dean and mostly because everyone in the hockey world wanted this big trade.
Penner isn’t going to get it figured out, and this will be flop. Not sure though Dean is entirely at fault, many wanted the big trade. Just because, that is not a reason to spend millions of dollars.
Build from within and you have longer term success, Montreal in the 60/70, Islanders in 70, Edmonton in 80 and now the most successful teams Detroit etc build from within not with some big trade.
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DesertKing Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
@Harty,
So, if Whenner had scored one point per game during the playoffs, it wouldn’t have made a difference? I’m sorry, but it was obvious that we needed offensive help at the trade deadline. DL did his best to address it by acquiring a recognized scorer. If it had worked and we were playing in the second round right now, everyone would say how great DL is and we would all be taking credit for it. Whenner failed to deliver during th stretch run and playoffs which is not the fault of DL
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Harty Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
@DesertKing, I’m not necessarily saying it was Dean’s fault although he pulled the trigger ultimately. I fault everyone who though a single winger would have pushed us further.
If Kopi hadn’t got hurt we would go further with him healthy then any aquistion? Only an opinion. You could be right also DesertKing also.
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If Kopitar and Williams didn’t get hurt, and the team didn’t have a monumental collapse (that is very rare) in game 3, the King’s could have easily beat the Sharks and been on to the second round. I bet a lot of your votes would have been different.
All 3 things, Lombardi had no control over.
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tornado12 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@kevin from toronto, BINGO
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Dave Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@kevin from toronto, 100% true. if the Kings finished in the #4 spot which is where they were heading before the Kopitar injury, they are probably still playing right now. Penner remains a point per game player and everyone gives DL an A.
there are some things a DL can predict and others he can’t. Anything that has to do with the final 4 weeks of the season and the playoffs are totally out of DL’s hands once Kopitar went down. unless you are criticizing DL for not having a back up plan to losing Kopitar – but if you did that, you would be criticizing every GM in the league.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
@Dave, Also, this is just my opinion, but I believe had Poni and Mitchell stayed healthy the whole season..We win the division easily beacuse the records when they were in the lineup didnt lie.
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Laura Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
@kevin from toronto, couldn’t agree with you more my friend!
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rick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
@kevin from toronto, Actually, he did have control over the fact that our corps of forwards is mediocre, making the loss of Kopitar particularly difficult to overcome. A team cannot rely so heavily one player – DL has to shoulder much of the blame for leaving us in that predicament.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@rick, and so does Shero in Pittsburgh. there is a cap – losing your best player is going to hurt any team and make them mediocre. when 10+% of your payroll is gone and it’s tied up in one player, that’s going to hurt your team.
i would like you to name me a team that could lose their best player and advance past the first round.
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:31 am
@kevin from toronto,
Agreed.
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I gave DL an “A” and here is why…
First off, he got the Kings to the playoffs for a second straight year. That alone (as it did with TM) deserves at least a B grade.
Second, DL deserves huge credit for not panicking and caving and signing Kovalchuk to big money. Most GM’s would have thrown him the money just because they had it. DL was smart and stuck to the game plan. Kovalchuk was not the right guy for this team at the price he wanted and DL knew that.
Third, the signing of Mitchell was genius and solidified the defensive core. DL now has put together what might be the best blue line in the league.
Fourth, DL re-signed Jack Johnson to a very good deal. Even after the stuff that came out last year about Michigan, etc. that DL said, he still found a way to sign Jack (and Williams for that matter) to very good deals – well below market in my opinion.
Fifth, the kids that he drafted keep developing and he should continue to receive credit for that.
Sixth, DL pulled the trigger on the biggest deal at the deadline for a player that was the right fit and he didn’t give up that much to get him. We’ll see if Penner ends up being the right guy, but up until Kopitar got hurt there was little doubt. And to only give up a mid-first, a project that may have never made the team and a 3rd is a nice deal for a 30-35 goal scorer.
Now, I can accept that Penner didn’t work out, but I believe that is as much about Kopitar’s injury as anything else so we’ll have to reserve judgement on that until the end of next season. More kudos to DL for trading for a guy with another year left on his deal.
Yes, the Poni move didn’t work out great but let’s remember he had the money to spend and DL chose not to use him well. Poni never really got a chance to play in the top-6 so expecting him to produce like a top-6 player is unfair.
There is the Sturm deal, but again, DL gave up nothing and it didn’t work out. No harm done.
The only question that I would ask DL is why didn’t he expose someone like Harrold instead of Sturm? That didn’t make sense to me if he just needed to clear a roster spot for a day to make the Penner trade. Harrold didn’t play another game I don’t believe after that move plus DL had Drewiske to take a d-spot if he was needed.
Finally, the last thing to give DL credit for is his handling of Schenn. Now that we are beyond the playoffs we see that Schenn is in the best spot to make the team next year. He got experience in both the WJC, Junior Playoffs and AHL playoffs. He wasn’t exposed to NHL playoffs where a ton of pressure would have been put on him to fill the role that Kopitar left. I think this was a very smart move by DL even though he received criticism from Kings fan. A GM always needs to think about both the present and the future and I believe DL made the right decision.
In the off season DL has quite a few decisions to make, so his work is really just getting started…
What to do with the RFAs – especially Doughty, Simmonds, Lewis and Richardson
What to do with the UFAs – Handzus and Poni specifically
Does he make a deal for a top-6 guy?
How does he handle the Voynov situation?
At some point he’ll need to determine if Schenn is NHL ready to start the year which will likely determine if he makes a move for a top-6 guy.
And that’s just the beginning. I for one am excited to see what DL does and confident he will continue to lead this franchise in the right direction.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@Dave, This another post that should be minted into coin.
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Deadmarsh Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@Dave,.The only question that I would ask DL is why didn’t he expose someone like Harrold instead of Sturm?
Because those were HIS kids who have put in the time with this club and Sturm had played only a handful of games. And he was a veteran! DL has the sand to stick with his decisions. DL has integrity.
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Dave Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
@Deadmarsh, I understand that, but mostly likely Harrold will never have played another game with the Kings since then. and chances are he wouldn’t have even been claimed since he was a pending UFA.
he exposed Ersberg and that didn’t seem to have a big impact on the team.
i do appreciate what you are saying and i don’t think the Sturm move was a killer, but i just didn’t understand it.
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tuan jim Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
@Dave,
Sturm’s cap hit was higher than Harrold’s. DL was willing to take the risk in order to have the maximum amount of dough to play with at the trade deadline.
It ALMOST worked. I’m sorry we lost Marco, but there were brains behind taking the risk. It was by no means a stupid move. Perhaps DL counted on other teams not wanting to take on a rental with recent knee injury problems.
And Harrold is so inexpensive he could easily have been lost on waivers. His versatility is valuable to any team, the kind of player that’s nice to have on the shelf when you need him.
Dave Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
@tuan jim
i agree it wasn’t a “stupid” move, but i don’t really understand it. they had the cap space, they just needed the roster space. Sturm would have been a much more valuable player than Harrold in the playoffs even if Harrold did get claimed.
Kyle Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
@Dave, Thank you for an excellent post.
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:42 am
@Dave,
Almost as good as @jet’s post.
Also deserving of an “A”!
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Why should someone get credit just for inserting guys he drafted into the roster? Alec Martinez, Kyle Clifford, Trevor Lewis, and Oscar Moller? These guys are going to beat the San Joses and Vancouvers? Please, Rich. Though in the players’ defense, Martinez is young. Clifford adds toughness to a team that DESPERATELY needs it. Lewis and Moller are servicable guys but would serve no more than depth roles on deeper teams. And how long are the stars supposed to wait? Justin Williams isn’t young and Brown is certainly not getting any younger. Kopi is young, but his injury underscored the vulnerability which haunts this team and will continue to do so until another or maybe two top scorers are drafted and/or acquired. Look no further than San Jose, Vancouver and Chicago.
As Rich said, Kopitar isn’t Lombardi’s guy. I doubt he knew what he had in Quick before he came on (evidenced by all the enthusiams for Bernier), Doughty was an easy pick, and the hype surrounding Jack Johnson is more overwhelming than the reality.
What this GM has failed to do, like so many before him, is change the culture that has plagued this franchise since its inception. Sure there are are short spurts of greatness. But let’s be honest. 1993 is the lone year of significance which required one of the the greatest (if not the greatest) player the game had ever seen and a tough as nails coach to get them there. The time they beat Detroit is a rare highlight, but they didn’t go to the Finals, nor did they ever stand a chance.
Going back to this season, there was inconsistent play and lackadaisical effort e.g. just go back and look at all the St. Louis games and the 4 goal lead they gave up to San Jose (pathetic!). Murray and his staff share culpability but who put him there? As long as a team like Nashville, a team with a superb goaltender and a defensive pairing yet still one of a sum greater than its parts, makes it and contends in the second round of the playoffs, Lombardi will always be undistinguished. Let’s not forget his egregious errors in bringing Cloutier and Crawford. If not for them, this year might’ve been the 4th consecutive year of qualifying instead of the second in the last five.
Lombardi gets a fat C.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
@Scaught, According to your logic, David Poile amd that little troll he keeps as a coach Barry ” The Tijuana” Trotz should have been fired years ago, I mean, what the hell have they ever won, right?
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Scaught Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
@puck73, Besides guide an expansion team to 6 playoff appearances in 12 years? My logic is sound. Trotz’s looks aside, he’s a finalist for the Jack Adams and Poile is a finalist for GM of the year. Moreover, you miss the point. Lastly, I think most Western teams in the league fear the Preds over the Kings.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:22 pm
@Scaught, Sorry, not good enough! Dont belive me ask San Jose fans if their happy since Doug Wilson took over and they have had choke after choke. Ask Cap fans if they are happy with winning the presidents trophy and gagging. I could go on and on, the fact is, it is definately hard to win the cup. Dean Lombardi has changed the way the rest of the league has viewed us the last 2 seasons. He is trying to build a consistent winner the same way Detroit and New Jersey have for so many years. I predicted it would take 6 to 9 seasons to do it..Dont look now, but here comes season 6, so talk to me after this next season and lets see where the organization is at that point.
Scaught Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@puck73, Don’t know about Shark and Cap fans, but I can tell you King fans would certainly be happy with the success they’ve had. A lot of it is about winning the Cup, yes (it has to when your team has been around 40+ years without it) but it isn’t just about the Cup when a team is in the Kings’ position. Being consistently dominant and tough is the first step they need to reach. They are neither. It isn’t impossible for Lombardi to raise his grade, in my opinion, but the job he’s done has been very average contrary to the adulation he often receives. Next year couldn’t be bigger for him.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
@Scaught, Just remember what Dean inherited, our defense and Goaltending was a Joke. Dave Taylor was good at making trades, but when it came to drafting, developing, and stockpiling assets, he was a failure just like all his predecessors before him who belirved in instant gratification.
Scaught Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
@puck73, I hear ya, puck. And I want to give you the last word. I’d be willing to cut Dean slack, with regard to what he inherited, if it weren’t for Cloutier and Crawford. Come on. The Beach Ball.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
@Scaught, Again, Dean Lombardi was disgusted like you and I that he had to sign all those free agents the first year, trust me, he didnt want to. Its funny, I just had a talk with a Maple Leaf friend of mine and he was just envious of the direction the Kings are going in the last 3 seasons. What he, and alot of other teams fans dont realize is, how painful the first 2 seasons under Dean were when he had to trade away veterans for draft picks to get this thing going in the right direction. It’s funny, some of these other teams fans think we had success instantly…they couldnt be more wrong, and we are still not finished yet.
PP Anybody? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
@puck73, What I fear, is that getting into the playoffs, only to lose in the first round each year is good enough for most fans on here. If we want to talk about having a winning culture, and a team that competes for a cup, it starts with FANS wanting to win that cup more than anything else. I for one am not happy at all about this year. I think we basically ran in place for a whole season.
I watch other teams like Chicago and Tampa bay, and I see a lot quicker improvement. Watching Nashville take it to the Canucks is embarrassing, quite frankly. They have done more with less than we have.
I guess what I’m getting at is if we’re giving out A+’s for anything else than a Cup win, than it’s gonna be a whole lot longer before we actually win that cup. I’ve been waiting for the better part of three decades now, and I for one expect more from everyone responsible for this team.
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KC23 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
@PP Anybody?, Fans have zero to do with it. Its all about the leadership. One look at Tampa Bay speaks volumes on the subject. There rise certainly was not started with “the fans” in Tampa Bay. It was about leadership, as it always is and that start with the owner and the GM.
number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
@Scaught,
This is the first post I’ve read (I opened to it) and while I don’t agree with everything you said, I have to agree with a certain amount. I’ll post my views at the bottom here.
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Hat trick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
@Scaught, Couldn’t agree with you more about changing the culture. Bingo someone finally gets it! It doesn’t seem like anyone in the Kings org is really interested in really drilling into everyone that a winning tradition is what we want here. As long as they can sell enough tickets and sell enough merchandise than who really cares???
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Hat trick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
@Hat trick, And if you don’t necessarily agree with me and you live in or close to LA go to the Toyota center in El Segundo where they practice. I play pick up there sometimes and when I get on the ice I look up and they only have 3 banners hanging (or is it 2). Anyways, it’s really, really sad. But I’m a Kings fan and I do want them to win the cup someday.
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Choralone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
@Hat trick, I think it’s very clear DL is changing the culture, and that is a very tough assignment. That takes years. He’s been rebuilding this organization from top to bottom. Other than a quicker turnaround, I’m not sure whate you guys want….
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Hat trick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
@Choralone, With his picks for head coaches? Maybe there was a reason TM was unemployed as head coach for 12 years prior to taking the Kings job. I wonder…..
C+
He’s doing what he said he’d do, but its taking a bit more time than he said to get where we need to be. To top it off, the offense isn’t up to snuff. Poni sucks. Penner sucks. Moller is never going to play top line. And while lewis, Clifford, and Martinez were nice surprises this year, none of them look like all stars right now. We have enough roll players, now get u sthe top notch guys so we can move forward. Things could certainly turn around next year with a decent trade, better play from penner and doughty, and some of the offensive draft picks stepping up big. If that happens, then i’ll be happy to give him a B or A next year. But thats next year…
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I’m giving him a B-. He’s done alright. I agree building a solid back end is key to success. Check out the Bruins. That series Philly had the hardest time even getting a shot on net let alone trying to get someone in the slot for a shot. (Of course having a 6’9 D sure helps). The Bruins can also score which is a major problem that the Kings have.
It’s the coaching system that sucks imo. I could go on and on about why I think TM is an outdated dinosaur and hasn’t really embraced the “new” NHL. Guys can’t “waterski” like they used to. You even touch someone’s hands with your stick you’re going to the box for hooking. The game is so much faster now. If you’re not the best of skaters (Greene) you can’t hide it anymore. If DL can’t recognize that the team needs a coach that can coach and Excel within the new NHL the team’s going nowhere.
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@Hat trick,
I agree 100% with you that the game has changed. I’m Tired of hearing myself think it, type it or say it (though I don’t discuss the Kings much here in ny). BUT while I”m 50-50 on TM what concerns me is that the type of player (other than Doughty) that DL has brought in are all more or less a certain type of player that to me is Great, IF COMPLEMENTED by others who have more speed and skill to make it A BLEND (and no I’m not talking coffee here).
Everyone (well some people) rave about all these young offensive studs he’s drafted. But A) we don’t know that any of them other than Schenn are gonna even make it in the nhl and B) for those like Toffoli and Vey, when is it that they will likely be developed enough to just make the team as rookies? Three years from now?
For me, that’s just not good enough. It goes to Scaught’s comments that guys like JW will be getting on at that point.
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Hat trick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
@number 6, I know what you mean and that’s what’s so GD frustrating!!! Since 1993 and yet no return trip back to the cup finals. Mediocrity evidently does rule in the Kings org.
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Don’t know about Shark and Cap fans, but I can tell you King fans would certainly be happy with the success they’ve had. A lot of it is about winning the Cup, yes (it has to when your team has been around 40+ years without it) but it isn’t just about the Cup when a team is in the Kings’ position. Being consistently dominant and tough is the first step they need to reach. They are neither. It isn’t impossible for Lombardi to raise his grade, in my opinion, but the job he’s done has been very average contrary to the adulation he often receives. Next year couldn’t be bigger for him.
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Overrrated. Five years in, and we are not an elite team (if you don’t believe me – tune in the Red Wings/Sharks game right now). Other franchises have risen from the ashes in less time. We are still a bubble team, and I see no change in that status in the foreseeable future. He has done a good job rebuilding the franchise, but I really am not sure he is the GM to take us to the promised land. If we do not make real strides next year, I hope he gets voted off the island.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
@rick, Remember this, Doug Wilson inherited a team that Dean Lombardi built in 5 seasons and he STILL hasnt won a cup. As far as Detroit goes, they have been good since 94-95. What you may not realize was Detroit was a franchise spinning its wheels for the 70′s and much of the 80′s untill they hired Ken Holland, and even then it took YEARS of drafting and devoloping to get to this point. Remember…6 to 9 seasons is what it will take, and we are coming into season 6 now…Hang in there Rick, greatness is on the way !
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
@rick,
Well agree with one thing Rick. I’ve been watching and all I can say is WOW!!!
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
@number 6,
And by the way, I was thinking while watching about the Kings and thinking ‘geez, this is a different league’ cause that’s exactly what it often looked like to me. Sorry guys. I love the Kings and think they have fantastic qualities and some fantastic players, but really, they aren’t on that level, and they just won’t be until they get more talent up front.
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:50 am
@number 6,
Two more years…
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:05 am
@rick, i’d like to hear a team that went from doormat to back to back playoffs with such a young core in 5 years.
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Hey Rich….
Can we grade our owner…P.A..
What i’d give to have an owner that gave a poop..
Not interfere but said something…anything….
Rumored to be at one game this year…
Pathetic……IMHO…….
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Choralone Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
@SLIM, He’s doing his job by staying out of the way, IMO. I’m a Redskin fan and the last thing I want is hockey’s very own Dan Snyder.
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CB14 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
@Choralone, I think I can speak for SLIM here and say that it would be nice if our owner attends more than 1 game a year. We don’t want a Dan Snyder type of owner, but it would be nice if it seemed like our owner CARED about the team that he owns.
I just hope AEG gets an NFL expansion team so that he will be forced to sell the Kings.
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Stuart Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:34 am
@CB14, I haven’t wanted an NFL team here at all until I read that last line… I’ll deal with the traffic on Sundays for a new man behind the curtain with the Kings.
Choralone Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:25 am
@CB14, I just don’t get the fascination with whether or not the owner comes to the games. It shows he cares? I couldn’t care less if Philip Anschutz is a fan. His role is to make sure he has the right people in place to lead the operations (which means Tim Leiweke) and that the organization has the resources to succeed, which I think he’s done.
If you want to put an ownership face to the franchise, use Leiweke. He’s President and CEO of AEG, so he calls the shots, and he certianly doesn’t seem lacking for passion.
2 things Lombardi did to not let the team move forward. #1. Fell into the pointless bidding on a player that was never going to come here and should have been pursuing others that were promising to the Kings during the summer 2. Traded a couple of 1st round draft picks for Dustin “MOTIVATION-LESS” Penner
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Off topic: Hate to give them credit, but what an effort by the Red Wings to force Game 7.
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408KingsFan Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
@KingMe20, I hope they win and this is coming from the number 1 wing hater
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
@408KingsFan,
I hope so too. And personally I really respect them. Lindstrom and Datsyuk are both dripping talent and class. Hard to hate em, other than the fact that they’ve won so much.
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Stuart Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:38 am
@number 6, Daty is absolutely SICK!! None of the players on our roster would’ve tried that backhand flip from the boards to the OTHER side of the crease, let alone connected it. I haven’t seen someone with the puck on a string like him since super Mario. I was really hoping someone would’ve decked YumboYoe for that shoulder at the end of the 2nd, but alas Daty got the last laugh.
derek Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
@408KingsFan, i can’t believe how loud i’ve been yelling when the wings have scored these last two games. sadly i hate them the least out of the last 3 teams left in the western conference
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Hat trick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:10 pm
@KingMe20, When can we trade for Datsuk and Zetterberg???
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jonsey Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:00 pm
@Hat trick, I’ll take Zetterberg along Kopitar’s flank. How about Johnson,Stoll, and Jones?
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Hat trick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
@jonsey, Jones?
CB14 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:28 pm
@Hat trick, Martin Jones is who he’s talking about. He’s one of our goalies in Manchester. He was signed as an undrafted free agent and played very well in his first year in Manchester.
Hat trick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
@jonsey, Ahh can’t say much about him since i’ve never seen the guy play. But in any case Manchester doesn’t really mean a whole lot to me. Guys might do well there but when they get up the NHL level they can’t perform. But for a guy like Zetterburg or Datsuk I’d trade away JJ I don’t know about Stoll though.
Rainman Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
@Hat trick, To quote Steven Tyler of Aerosmith…”Dream On!”
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Hockeysureshot Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
@KingMe20, Terrific performance by the Wings. Rooting for Sharks though but have to respect Detroit. Great hockey.
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I gave DL a C+. Granted he did draft Kyle Clifford. But while we all love the kid, I mean, he’d Better draft and bring in some forwards that make the team. After several years of Moller, Simmer, Cliffy (now) etc., there is no one there who to me even looks like a regular 20 goal scorer.
I have no problem with a philosophy and in this case it’s build from the back out. Fine. But it’s the timing. I don’t think you can more or less ignore the ‘o’ for the first few years of drafting (Simmer is cool, but it’s not addressing the offense). So as we’ve seen, when Kopi goes down it leaves a big hole.
I normally would have graded him a B, but for someone who does such thorough research I was very surprised he traded for someone whose reputation rather proceeded him.
Some posters have said, I’m sure he’ll turn it around next year. He’s on a contract year. EXCUSE ME? What? He’s gotta be on a contract year to get it together and compete.
Nope, sorry. Very disappointing for the player, and rather disappointing for someone who is usually more astute in making trades.
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number 6 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
@number 6,
Just read Dave’s comments above. Forgot about his signing of Willie Mitchell. OK, so I’ll change it to a B- but still for me the offense (i.e. forwards) is still a huge sticking point. At this point there is absolutely no guarantee that either Schenn or Lokti will make the team next year. Of course probably one will, but I personally have a feeling that Schenn needs work on his defensive play and Lokti has not so far shown that he can handle physically the rigors of an nhl season. Both those shoulders need to be in serious working order.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
@number 6, Another problem in my view, is that by building from the back out, we’ve essentially missed out on getting that high enough draft pick to land an elite scoring forward prospect. Tampa Bay picked Stamkos, and Lecavelier. when they had high picks. Chicago picked Kane and Toews. Pittsburgh picked Crosby and Malkin.
Now we’re a middle of the road team, and will not even have a first round pick this year.
I think that maybe DL’s approach is actually wrong. Duncan Keith was a 2nd round pick, and won the Norris trophy. Niklas Lidstrom was picked in the 2nd round. Zdeno Chara was drafted in the 2nd round. How many forty goal scorers are found after the top five picks? Not too many.
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jonsey Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
@PP Anybody?,
Lucky Luc Robitaille (8 straight 40+ goal seasons after being drafted in the 9th)
Hank Zetterberg (almost 2 40 goal years and drafted in the 7th)
Datsyuk (97 pts in two straight years drafted in the 6th)
Mogilny (76 goals in one year and drafted in the 5th)
Bure (almost 4 60 goal years, and drafted in the 6th)
Gretzky (Never drafted, and scored almost 100 goals in a year)
Brett Hull (86 goals in one year and drafted past 100th)
I get it. This is the exception and not the rule. But the point is that maybe we need better scouts. Dean Lombardi heavily criticized the scouting before he came, but has he done much better?
How many guys as a percentage played more than 20 games with the Kings that he drafted?
number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:57 am
@PP Anybody?,
I’m gonna surprisingly have to disagree about a few of your points.
The five drafts he’s presided over went as follows wrt 1st round picks:
06 – Bernier – A great choice because at the time no one knew what Quick could do and we needed goaltending
07 – Hickey – This is the one where I agree. I mean he picked a guy who was rated 13th at the highest by scouts and mainly lower first round, high 2nd round. Also the Sharks grabbed Couture at No. 8.
I think he was blinded by being fixated on getting a defenseman rather than the best available player
08 – Doughty – enough said….. plus no other top forwards available in top five and Stamkos was gone
but the move up to 13 for Teubert doesn’t look all that great in hindsight
09 – Schenn – best available player available so a good pic
10 – Derek Forbort – we’ll see
Overall his first round picks make sense to me other than Hickey…. especially for a GM who puts such a premium on size, unless Hickey turns out to be a later day Brian Rafalski. We’ll see.
number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:03 am
@PP Anybody?,
Also, as for the points about getting great dmen later on, actually Lidstrom was 3rd round (No. 53), but A) it’s the Detroit RedWings. The Kings don’t have a draft history to rival the Wings unfortunately nor do too many teams. But one could flip that on it’s head. I believe Datsyuk was like a 6th rounder. Luc was I think drafted in the 9th round.
There are no rules. DL likes a certain type of player. Great. We’ll see if he augments the forwards and integrates more speed and talent up front. If he does this team could go far. If he stays the status quo then it’ll be very difficult with teams like Vancouver, Chicago (still a v good team) and SJ to say nothing of Detroit, it’ll be difficult to get thru three rounds in the west as they’re built.
CB14 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:46 pm
@number 6, Dean’s philosophy is to build from the back out. In his first year as Kings GM he drafted goalies Bernier and Zatkoff. In his next 2 drafts he got defensemen Hickey, Martinez, Doughty, Tuebert, and Voinov. Only in these last 2 years did he focus on forwards, drafting Schenn, Clifford, and 3 guys tearing up the junior leagues in Linden Vey, Tyler Toffoli, and Maxim Kitsyn. Just give it some time and you’ll see. You have to admit that he’s done a great job with the goalies and defensemen, the forwards will be coming up soon.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:09 am
@number 6, DL’s philosophy is back end and centers. he has a great goaltending tandem, he has possibly the best blue line in the league with some fantastic prospects coming, he has a top-5 center with two more gems on their way. DL understands that’s how you win championships. it’s not with flashy goal scoring wingers.
look at Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Nash. where is their playoff success? wingers don’t win Cups, centers and good defense does. Toews, Crosby/Malkin, Datsyuk/Zetterberg and so on. DL knows what he is doing.
40 goal scorers do not win Cups, especially wingers.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:49 am
@Dave,
Dave, I never said anything about 40 goal scorers. What I said is that so far not enough attention to the issues of skill and speed up front. First of all you can’t be sure where we will be wrt centers. Realistically unless he has an amazing camp, Schenn may not even make the team until 2012-13 (might be wrong, but very possible I’m not) and we can’t expect as a rookie he’ll come in and be a 25 goal scorer.
Sorry my friend, but unfortunately there are no guarantees in life. Two years ago Cody Hodgson was the No.1 THN Futures prospect. You probably haven’t seen him doing much this playoff season for Vancouver, if you get my drift.
I keep insisting simply that this league has changed and I don’t know why people have an issue with that. You can’t be a fairly slow plodding team and expect to win. YES, you can win in the regular season, but if you saw the Wings-SJ last night that to me gave definite indications that it’s a different game in the current nhl and you have to at least make some concessions to that.
I love Brad Richardson. He works his tail off and has blazing speed, but the question is if he or Simmer will ever be regular 20 goal scorers. That’s my point…. not how many 40 goal scorers the team has.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:51 am
@number 6,
just to clarify, wrt the slow plodding issue, sure we have some guys who can skate, but a team with Matt Greene, Ryan Smyth And Michael Handzus, is gonna slow you down. That’s three of your principle top 9 forward – top 6 dmen group. That’s a lot in this league.
Hat trick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:28 am
@number 6, Absolutely agree. With no more red line and the way officials are calling penalties now it’s not necessary to be built like Penner anymore. That Richie Simmers Cliffy line was clearly the most dangerous line and SJ knew it.
I’ve been clamoring for Richie all season and yeah he may not be that 40 goal scorer but that line created so many opportunites. How did TM no see the potential there earlier? He’s the head coach for God’s sake. And then scratching him for Westgarth. Cmon DL you need to find a new head coach in the off season as well. Someone who understands the new NHL.
PP Anybody? Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
@number 6,
The point of my post was that I simply just disagree with the philosophy of building from the back. It’s just my opinion. I look at the teams that have won the cup in the last decade, or the teams that are contenders, and the players that set them apart from the rest are their dynamic scoring forwards. It’s just a fact, and almost all of those players were high first round draft picks. I was stating that I think that it’s more likely to find a really good defensemen in the 2nd round or later, than a truly gifted scorer. Sure, there are exceptions, but there is definitely a pattern if you look at past draft classes.
Chicago is based on their scoring talent. They won a cup. Tampa Bay is based on their scoring talent. They won a cup. Pittsburgh is based on their scoring talent. they won a cup. Anaheim is based on their scoring talent. They’ve won a cup. Detroit is based on their scoring talent. They’ve won several cups. The fact is, most teams in the last decade have concentrated on developing pure scoring talent up front, then made moves to find a goalie or trade for defensemen. I’m not saying it’s the only way, just that that philosophy has had more success for quite some time now. Just sayin’.
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:49 pm
@number 6, i agree that DL hasn’t invested as much in forwards as d-men and goalies. what i’m saying is that he will. he solidified the d-end and up the middle. those are now strengths. he went out and traded for Penner. i believe Penner will score at least 30 with Kopitar. Penner-Kopitar-Williams is a legit #1 line.
i agree Schenn may not be ready next year – but he should be a #2 or #3 in this league for years. Loktionov also could be a #2. so the future looks good up the middle for the next decade. i agree, no guarantees, but DL is in good shape there.
so that leaves the wing. in the short-term, things look pretty good. DL has solid bottom six wings in Clifford and Simmonds, and Penner and Williams are solid #1′s. Brown is clearly a quality #2. Smyth is the question mark. i believe DL will stick with Smyth for one more year unless he gets a taker on him and then make a move for another wing in 12-13. plus he has some prospects that could develop into top-6 guys.
my simple point was that DL is strong in net, on the blue line and up the middle. that is where he is concentrating his draft picks and development. that is where he spends his money. i think that is 100% the right plan. DL can trade assets for top-6 wings. they can be had. James Neal was had, Penner was had. neither cost that much to acquire. DL has what is in demand (d-men and centers) to trade for what he needs when he finds the right fit.
PP Anybody? Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
@number 6, My point wasn’t specifically about 40 goal scorers, but was just about the philosophical difference of building from the front instead of the back. If you look at the Cup winners over the last decade, I would argue that almost all of them were built around elite scoring talented forwards, not around a goalie and then defense. And I’m not saying that those teams didn’t have good defense, just that those teams didn’t use their poorest years/highest picks to choose D-men or goalies first. Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Anaheim, Detroit, etc. built their teams downward from their forwards.
I was just making a point that a Stamkos, or a Crosby type player is harder to come by the later you draft, and that a Duncan Keith or Nik Lidstrum was maybe easier to find in later rounds. Of course there are exceptions, but if you look at successful forwards, and successful defensemen, there is a pattern to where most were picked and their subsequent impact.
I hope DL’s plan works out, and I like some of the most recent picks of Vey, Toffoli and Schenn. I just wished he started picking some of these players 2-3 years ago, so I wouldn’t have to wait another 2-3 years from now to see them even having a chance of making the team better. I don’t think Ryan Smyth or Willie Mithcell signed on here because they thought the Kings were 2 to 3 more years away from challenging for a cup. I think they thought things would be moving along faster, and so do I. Just wishful thinking on my part. That is all.
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
@PP anybody, i’m not sure you can say that about which philosophy has worked. you can’t use Detroit because that team was built pre-cap era. sure, Pittsburgh has Crosby but he’s once-in-a-generation player. and i agree centers are important – i believe SC winning teams are built up the middle and on the blue line. that Penguins blue line and in net was special when they won the Cup.
i don’t believe there has been a 40-goal scorer on the wing that has won a Cup since the Cap Era. Centers, yes. Toews, Crosby, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Staal, etc. DL has Kopitar and has invested heavily into Schenn. that could be a dynamic 1-2 punch up the middle.
but from what i can tell, i don’t see any home grown star wingers winning any Cups aside from maybe Kane, but Toews was the key to that championship, not Kane.
DL knows he has some nice chips to trade and can use those to find a Hossa-type player to get over the hump. has to be the right guy though.
A. his philosophy and direction to date is the greatest, long overdue occurrence in the team’s history.
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I gave Dean Lombardi a B for his work thus far that is not close to being complete. When I look at the hockey news prospect watch and see the Kings organization ranked at the top he deserves credit for that. He did take over a difficult situation especially on defense which people tend to forget. Thank you Dean for finally solidifying the goaltending situation that has plagued us for years. The Kings defense is deeper than it has been in years also. DL deserves credit for that. One knock I have is that he may have used too many picks on D when we badly need goal scoring. Maybe Hickey, Voynov, and Forbort turn out to be solid players or are used as chips to get that winger we need. So far he has not drafted a legitimate top forward but time will tell. He clearly looks for character players and Clifford is a type of player a successful team needs but he is probably a third liner.
Free agent signings have been hit or miss. Preissing, mccauly, and ponikarovsky were awful. Mitchell and Scuderi have been great pick-ups. I still get upset watching Matt Moulson and Ted Purcell playing so well when they left the Kings but some players slip through the cracks.
Now is the tough part for Kings management. Just making the playoffs isn’t good enough now. Dean has to decide what it will take to be a Cup contender. Trade Bernier for a forward? Go after a big name like Richards? Lots of big decisions upcoming.
I remember Sam McMaster and others. Dean is a good GM but now is the time to make that move that turns the Kings from a good team to a great team.
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Dominick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
@Hockeysureshot,
The impression I get is that DL will be going for Richards, but he seriously went after Kovalbuck, and it handcuffed us all summer last year. He seriously wanted Marleau, but he signed with the Sharks. Before that, he didn’t feel the team was ready, so all FA’s available before are null and void. He has been searching for that coveted scorer for a year now, and judging from availability, there hasn’t been one.
Forcing a trade is risky, because even getting what you want is a gamble that might not pay off immediately (see Penner trade), and there’s no crystal ball to say that it will work. Should he take some risks, and jeopordize the future he so painstakingly built? Some say that is the only answer, and he will be judged for it. Hard to say.
He did have the eye to aquire guys like moulson, and purcell, and he has some sizable investments in offensive players that might pan out still, but offensive draft picks haven’t developed offensively, as of yet under our current plan. He has large investments in defense, and goaltending that are worthy of praise, and are coming along nicely, but investing in a defense first coach, who teaches a defense first mantra may be his undoing.
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tuan jim Reply:
May 13th, 2011 at 12:40 am
@Dominick,
The Kings didn’t have much of a problem scoring for Crawford. They were one of the most exciting-to-watch last place teams in league history.
The Islanders ultimately traded (with us) to get Butch Goring, and he was the final ingredient necessary for their first Cup run.
But they were — and continued to be — a strong defensive team first and foremost, staying competitive in the playoffs BEFORE they got Butchy.
I for one am delighted to have a coach who teaches a defense-first mantra. And I hope this team continues to chant it, come hell or high water, regardless of the forwards we pick up.
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How quickly we forget. Sober observers knew Penner was a glass half full. It was hoped he’d be ‘the good Penner’ who has put up some respectable numbers, and not ‘the bad Penner’ known for sleepwalking. But to a team looking for a LW most of the year (Parse’s injury, Sturm not working out, Poikarovsky’s modest offensive contributions), Penner came to be the chance most worth taking. We know how the deal has worked out so far, but not very many were second-guessing Lombardi at the time.
Hey, he didn’t saddle the Kings with Kovalchuk’s randsom (LAK gets similar O production from Brown at a 3rd of the price).
DL has methodically built an organization that will complete for years to come. His grade to date is a B at worst. The next chapter is what matters now.
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puck73 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
@wes, Good post.
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Dominick Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:23 pm
@wes,
Excellent post. Penner was the best left wing available at the time, and everyone new it would be expensive. That’s what happens when you force a trade for the highest priced guy out there, and at least DL made it happen. I didn’t look at wether it worked or not, but wether DL was serious about aquiring some help to make us a contender, and at the time Penner looked like the perfect fit.
It hasn’t panned out yet, but I hope it does. Would hate to see him take too many more risks though. Hopefully finding the right FA will solidify everything. Opening up the offense for offensive players wouldn’t hurt either.
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KC23 Reply:
May 10th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
@wes, Penner will likley pay off next season. It’s his contract year and it certainly isn’t going to want to leave the league with the impression he left at seasons end. I bet the Kings take advantage of his working for his next contract and let him go with UFA next July. We both get what we want then.
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sign richards and blake wheeler and you get an A++++
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people…if San Jose would’ve been patient with DL they would have won the cup a few yrs ago .please lets not get ride of our GM. He is the only one who has taken the risks and started from scratch and built great depth. Penner will get the choke hold to come back in shape and ready to go next season. You can’t play for this team if you are not prepared and DL will make sure of that.
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puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
@tellmeY, Dean Lombardi is a big bafoon, and thats why they fired his ass up here in San Jose. Since I took over for him, we have had a ton of success, piling up championship after championship….Respectfully Yours, Douglass Wilson General Manager San Jose Sharks Hockey Club.
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IN DL WE TRUST!!! OR…..at least we did.
He has been great turning this team from the bottom to a playoff team. But is he able to take Kings to the next level? To be a top team in the west like for example San Jose or Vancouver.
Its like many allready said. We have a great team, some great prospects waiting to break out, but we lack some top scoring. I really really hope penner would be the answer next season, but he really has to step up. If he dont, well, we are stuck with his salary not able to do anything. No one would trade for him, maybe for a low draft pick or something…(insane)
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If he resigns Handzus I lose all respect….
If he replaces Handzus with Schenn or Stoll (the Loktionov takes Stolls spot) then He retains all my respect
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jonsey Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@Paul G, Agree. Disagree. Handzus has to go (sorry Rich) and Loktionov is too small to be a #2 center yet. He’s a boy. Schenn probably has the most potential to bulk up, but isn’t ready for the NHL yet.
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puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@Paul G, You cant look any Kings fan on this site with a straight face and say that you Know Schenn will make this team next season for a fact! The fact is, we will all find out in training camp if he is ready to play with grown men or not. remember, Bernier didnt make it til 22, Lewis and Martinez 23, Parse 25. Brayden Schenn will have to earn it like everyone else and he will be going against more competition then we have ever had at camp thanx to Dean stockpililng so many assets….so stay tuned.
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Paul G Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
@puck73, I’ll take u up on that bet my good man and tell u that Schenn is making the team next season
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Sharks are choking and I LOVE it!
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SLIM Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@KFII,
The San Choke-say Sharts….
It’s not done yet..but I for one
would like to see them skate off
the ice scratching their heads…In shame..
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I gave him a C.
Lombardi is the right man for the job, in my eyes, however, the trade for Penner was a giant mistake. I said it at the time, and I will continue to say it. You can teach young players to get in shape, and play both ends of the ice…Penner has been in this league too long and at this point, he is beyond that teaching part of the game. It was a panic trade by Lombardi, in my opinion.
He is now in year six of his tenure. He has upgraded the goaltending. He has upgraded the defense. He has NOT upgraded the offense nearly enough to compete at a high enough level. I am big fan of his, and really believe in what he is doing, so I feel I can be a giant critic of his as well.
You have these prospects stockpiled for a reason…USE THEM.
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MacSwede Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@mrbrett7, Amen..
It is so true what you are saying. But DL have to give Penner a chance next season, or else he will look foolish. Instead maybe he will trade for a 2nd playmaking center (i didn´t say Richards). But where will that put Schenn and/or Loktionov? It is going to be a really interesting summer……again!
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puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@mrbrett7, Concur. I think Dean is going to make a move or 2 this offseason. We have more overstock on defense and center then in all the years I have been following this team. And lets face it, we cant keep all those guys, so we might as well move some of them. Good post, and filled with common sense as usual.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
@mrbrett7, how can you say that? he was good with Kopitar and then his two linemates got hurt. he won a Cup in Anaheim, he scored goals in Edmonton. DL gave up very little to get a proven 30-goal guy in my opinion, especially when you consider was the Kings 4th best d-prospect at best.
if Penner struggles next year then DL has to answer for that. maybe Teubert ends up being the next Pronger. i doubt it. maybe Edmonton will draft a big-time scorer in the first round. it’s a weak draft so i doubt it. where the Kings are at I’d rather take my chances with a proven guy. it was the right move.
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tuan jim Reply:
May 15th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@Dave,
Yes. It was the right move.
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Rich, time for your evaluation!! Cmon bud…..
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“It was the Best of times. It was the Worst of times.”
Lombardi gets an Incomplete from me. This summer will be his season of discontent and reputation.
I predict the Kings will either look very much the same, or vastly different next season. Why? Dean’s choices.
Poni? Probably gone.
Zues? Probably gone.
Richardson or Lewis? Pick one, not both.
Parse? Who can say.
Smyth? Probably can’t move him. So how to use him effectively.
Moller? Down or gone.
Penner? I say gone, just for the lack of effort.
Harrold? Gone.
Drewiski? Murray will never use him, so gone.
Bernier/Quick? Probably one more year as a tandem.
Kids?
Schenn makes the team.
Lotki, probably makes the team.
Hickey? I don’t see him knocking Martinez out of the lineup, so gone (if anyone will have him).
Voynov? See above.
Holloway? Maybe.
King? AHL
UFAs? Not a lot to choose from this year. Richards will not come here. He and Murray’s “system” won’t work.
Draft? Thin year on talent, so who knows.
Trades? To date, not Lpmbardi’s strong suit. But this is where the team improves or not, and thus Lombardi’s greatest challenge.
Murray? This will be Lombardi’s Waterloo. Keep Murray and his system, or make a move to prod the team upward? I don’t think Murray can do the job any longer based upon the belief that he was expected to teach the kids. He’s done that, but the team has matured. Murray has been exposed as not being able to adjust during a game. The Caps played a similar system to Murray’s, with better talent, and we saw where that got them. Lombardi’s loyalty will keep him here, not to the advantage of the team.
Kompon? Stays. See “loyalty” above.
Doughty and Simmonds? Both must be signed.
Lombardi’s challenge will be in the trade arena this summer. And to get you have to give. The Kings will look different next season, the question being Lombardi’s Long View.
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viciar to the king Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@IceGuy,
I agree with you. Well done.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
@IceGuy,
I doubt it. Don’t think both Lokti and Schenn make the team together. Two rookie centers at the most important forward position. I don’t think so. Also, Penner gone? After he gave up a first round pick + Teubert for him. No way. Also, given that his linemates were both hurt, you’ve gotta at least give benefit of the doubt. And I was personally not a big Penner supporter.
But that’s just reality.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:16 pm
@number 6, Agree on all accounts. If Loktionov can prove that he somehow can stay healthy, I would expect him to make the team over Schenn.
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IceGuy Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
@number 6,
Re Penner Gone. All I can think of is that old saw: Throwing good money after bad.
Teubert and a 1st? Is Lombardi more concerned about his ego or the Kings winning? I hope it’s about winning. I could cut Penner some slack for his performance if I were to buy into the “new system” “outta shape” “personal problems” reasons for his poor performance. I don’t. Why? Even if he did suffer all those disabling distractions to his game, it doesn’t account for the least he could do, which should have been, “If it’s not wearing a Kings sweater, I’m gonna knock it on its a$$.”
The man didn’t even try. I was at Game 6, and saw him pull up three times from nailing a Sharks player. None would have been “dirty”, none remotely close to a penalty. He just plain didn’t feel like it. Maybe that’s OK for beer league, but not for professional NHL hockey.
If the rest of your team are playing desperate hockey (see Zues’ diving to tip pucks out of the zone while on defense), just cruisin’ ain’t cuttin’ it. The “reality” is he embarrassed Lombardi, his teammates and himself with his play, or lack thereof.
It’s kind of like getting caught cheating of your spouse. There’s no going back no matter what is said.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
@IceGuy,
On Penner: number 6 brings up some valid points.
On the ego thing: no one new ahead of time wether Penner would work, so we can’t judge in hindsight wether it was ego. He had 1 of 2 choices, either take a chance or don’t take a chance. He did with every intention of improving the team. So it wasn’t ego at all, but a decision to get the best player available at that time. It hasn’t panned out, but no one new that ahead of the trade.
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
@IceGuy, come on, Teubert didn’t have a future in L.A., at least not in the next 2-3 years) and a mid-late first round pick and 3rd round pick for a 30+ goal scorer is a good deal.
Penner was fine until Kopitar got hurt. If Penner was UFA then yes, he gave up too much. but he has another year on his deal so judging that deal now makes no sense at all.
IceGuy Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@IceGuy,
I didn’t make myself clear. I apologize for that.
The reference to “ego” was NOT that the deal was made. It was made to #6′s comment “Also, Penner gone? After he gave up a first round pick + Teubert for him. No way.” It’s not that the price was too high, it was the return was too low. What would make you, or 6, or Lombardi, or whoever believe that Penner will come to camp a different player than the one we saw in the Playoffs? His reputation and recent past history would indicate otherwise.
I was suggesting that Lombardi cut his losses with Penner. Most would say give him another chance. OK, but let me ask, how long do you wait for a turn around?
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@IceGuy, Your question is a good one. The return hasn’t payed off yet, and there’s no easy answer. Just have to wait and see how this all unfolds next season.
Paul G Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
@IceGuy, just a few respective points..
1) Dustin Penner and Scott Parse are not free agents this summer (they are next summer)
2) Brad Richardson and Trevor Lewis should both be kept as they are cheap and we should have a good 4th line similar to Detroit (similar to the likes of Darren Helm and Patrick Eaves)
3) Both Jonathan Bernier and Quick are signed for 2 more seasons and a decision should not be made until then (like Halak\Price)’since both goalies are incredibly young and every season helps paint a more accurate picture of their future
4) Brayden Schenn and Andrei Loktionov should not make the team at the same time as we should only have 1 rookie center per season max. Also, contracts work into our favour since Handzus will be departing and replaced this season by one of the young centers and the other young center can replace Stoll next season (most likely Schenn will replace Handzus then Loktionov will replace Stoll
5) Viatcheslav Voynov is much more talented than Alec Martinez (he is also the fastest player in the world currently). The only reason that Martinez was called up over Voynov was for 2 reasons. First, Voynov is right handed and Martinez is left handed, a left hander fiits better with the right handed Matt Greene (if Murray wanted to rearrange the lines and have Voynov play with Scuderi than that will mean Greene will play with Johnson which doesn’t work). The second reason, is that LA needed help on the PP and decided to take the Martinez since he is A) older than Voynov (by a year) and B) was on the final year of his contract and DL shuld give him at least one chance.
6) Thomas Hickey is IMO also more talented than Martinez but he didn’t get called up since LA needed help on the PP and Hickey did not have enough experience QBing a PP. Why? because he has battled with injuries and this past season was his first complete season in the AHL where he was not injured. Give Hickey time when he is actually healthy for a long stretch
7) I agree with you in the sense that I am not exactly a fan of Terry Murray BUT we do need him right now. When an NHL organization decides to rebuild a team solely throughout the draft it tends to be a painfully slow but effective process. We need a coach like Terry Murray to teach the younger players such as Simmonds, Doughty and Schenn etc (Johnson is a lost cause defensively lol) to play defense consistently at the NHL level. For example, look at Kopitar and his two-way transformation at the age of 22 instead of the usual age of 26. Murray is part of the defensive development of the team and once the teams young core of players have developed into two-way players then DL can seek out a coach that will focus on offence knowing that the players can back check and play D effectively. Then we will be ready for a Cup parade!
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IceGuy Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
@Paul G,
Paul, good points. And, like I said, this summer is going to define Lombardi and his “Long View”.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
@Paul G,
Absolutely love your post. Don’t know how I missed it. I don’t agree on JJ, or schenn before Lokti (cap reasons more than anything), but agree with everything else.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
@Paul G, great post – everything except the Johnson comment
i wouldn’t write off both Schenn and Loktionov this year. one of them could play the wing. i actually hope both make it hard for DL to not have them on the team.
stay the course – this team was headed for a 4th place finish and at least 2nd round when Kopitar got hurt. strong in net, great blue line, good defensive team, strong up the middle, great PK.
if Penner can be the 30+ goal guy that he has been, the PP figures it out and we stay healthy, there is no reason the Kings shouldn’t win the division next year w/o any major moves.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@Paul G,
One other thing I forgot to mention was, I think were past the point of defensive instruction. This team is already one of the best defensive teams in the league. It’s time to start teaching these guys to score, along with that defense. Two-ways means there’s an offensive side too.
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CB14 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
@Dominick, I second this post!
Paul G Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
@Dominick, I agree but how long can Willie Mitchell last? Or even Rob Scuderi for the long term
But those defensive defenceman roles are for Jake Muzzin and Derek Forbort
Who’s down to go after Jagr? >:)
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tornado12 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:52 am
@Subby, no thanks. does he even want to come to NHL?
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Sebastian Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
@Subby, whos down to go for an NHL caliber player like Alexander Semin, Evgeni Malkin, etc. I bet Jagr would make Zeus look like Pavel Bure in his early years.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
@Sebastian,
Not sayin I want Jagr, but a Jagr at 1.5 mill would be better than a Zues at 2.5 mill. Jagr is still a better scoring threat, and we have the depth internally to make up for the defensive losses of Zues. Hypathetically speaking.
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SLIM Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
@Subby,
I guess you ask this in reference to
Pittsburgh’s interest and the fact that he
got a “hat trick” in today’s USA game….
At 39 he still looked good out there.
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The ridiculous carousel at left wing on Kopitar’s line highlights the undeniable fact that DL left the offensive cupboard bare while he stockpiled defenseman after defenseman. As we enter the 2012 season, we continue to have gaping holes at forward. Do we really have a top 6 LW anywhere on the team or in the organization? Who is going to play second line center? What do we do with the countless 3rd and 4th line players we have accumulated? How do we protect ourselves against the short or long term loss of our one legitimate first line forward, Mr. Kopitar? Do we really have anyone in the organization who can step up and provide offensive firepower before players like Williams and Brown are past their prime? I would give DL a B+ for what he has done with goalies and defensemen, and a C- for his work on developing the forward corps. He has to provde this offseason that he has the skill and guts to make this team much more well rounded than it is now. Otherwise, we face another year of maybe making the playoffs, and likely getting bounced in round 1. I want to be at Staples for more than 3 playoff games each year. If DL cannot get this team to that point by the end of the 2012 season (which unfortunately I seriously doubt), he needs to be replaced.
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MacSwede Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
@rick, Well said.. But I still trust DL, he will work something out this summer. I dont want him to go, cause I am anxious that his replacement will be someone like Dave Taylor who trades away all the prospects and picks..
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
@rick, Wing is last priority for DL as it should be. look at the top wingers in the league – they aren’t on Cup winners.
Penner is clearly a top-6 LW. Smyth was but he’s at the end of his career so he’s borderline. we don’t know about the other guys in the minors and junior but the Kings did have multiple players lead their leagues in scoring and that is all we have to go on.
as far as 2nd line center, next year i’m guessing Stoll will start there. 20 goals is not bad for a #2 but i agree he’s better suited for a #3. but there is reason to think that either Schenn or Loktionov will take the #2 spot in the next year or two.
no team can recover from losing their #1 center.
how could you give DL only a B+ with goalie and d-men? we have probably the best tandem in the league in net, especially give their ages and contracts, and possibly the best blue line in the league. what does he have to do to get an A?
from what DL had to start with he has done a fine job adding forwards. Williams for O’Sullivan, Smyth for Preissing and Quincy, Stoll + Greene for Visnovski (who had done little before this year and we have Doughty to replace him), drafted Simmonds and Clifford, got Richardson for very little, drafted Lewis, signed Handzus. i’d say he’s done a good job putting the forwards together.
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rick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
@Dave, I think you proved my point. The names you mention mostly prove that DL has done a good job bringing in 3rd and 4th line talent. With the exception of Williams, I don’t see that he has added top flight 2nd line talent (Smyth is past his prime and Penner is a dog). He has not brought in 1st line talent of any kind. He is great at finding grinders, but falls short on bringing in the kind of dynamic offensive talent that the teams still left in the Stanley Cup hunt this year have.
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Dave Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 12:22 am
@rick, he brought in Williams and Penner, both proven 30-goal guys. he brought in Stoll and Smyth who each scored 20+ this year.
it’s a cap era – you can’t have the best blue line in the league and 3 40-goal scorers.
DL knows that defense keeps you in games and teaches your young team how to win. he added Penner because he had the pieces to move and it was the right fit. it was working until Kopitar got hurt.
where is Boston’s 40-goal scorer? what about Detroit’s? Boston was led by Lucic with 30 goals and had 3 20-goal scorers. Detroit was led by Franzen with 28 and had four 20 goal scorers. the Kings were led by Brown with 28 and had 5 20 goals scorers (Penner would be #6 if you count his EDM goals)
so where is the dynamic offensive talent you are talking about?
ironically, it’s the 3rd line that had the major dip in goal scoring this year for the Kings.
it’s a nice theory you have but it’s just doesn’t hold water. sure, we don’t have the Sedin twins and Kesler but they are a much older team that has been in the hunt for 4-5 years.
MacSwede Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 1:12 am
@rick, @Dave
I understand what you mean Dave. Maybe we dont need a top scorer like Kovalchuk. But we need offensive threat. Maybe it is not the amount of goals, but the quality of the goals (sorry for my bad english, hope you understand what I mean).
Zetterberg and Datsyuik are a far more offensive threat than Kopitar/Williams. But maybe they dont score so many more goals. That is what we need. Top offensive talent that can create chances from nothing. We have too many 3rd and 4th liners to be honest, just as Rich says. Where is our offensive threat?
I hope that Williams continue to play well, and I really really hope that Penner responds to the criticism and proves to everyone that he can score.
But sometimes maybe it is not just the players, it can also be the system. How many goals do you think that Kovalchuk would have scored if he came here instead? Or lets say if we miraculously got Stamkos here for nothing, do you still think he would have scored as many goals this season? Whith Murrays defensive system?
Dean has done a nice job drafting – check out: http://tinyurl.com/juniorkings
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Off subject:
IIHF JJ final stats in 7 games:
1 goal
2 assists
plus/minus -4
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KC23 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
@KC23, Not only worst +/- on defense, but tied with one other player for worst on the entire team.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
@KC23, Even though I talk smack to Canadians, the US ended up where I thought they would, with the line up they had. A complete miss match offensively. Is that JJ’s fault? No!
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BluLiner Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
@KC23,
On the other hand, Bernier is starting the quarterfinal against the Ovechkins and Kovulchucks.
You’ve gotta be very pumped up about that!
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puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@KC23, Jack Johnson, Bernier, and Moller for 26 year old Zack Parise….Bye Bye JJ and your minus 78 !
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
@puck73,
9 times out of 10 I agree with you, but on JJ’s +/- I don’t think the Kings judge JJ based on that stat.
Rick Nash is a -52 career wise, and is considered the best power forward in the game. Does that mean he sucks defensively?
Why is his +/- so bad? Because his team sucks offensively, and he spends more time on the ice in defensive situations than offensive situations.
JJ does the same thing for us, but not by default. It’s designed that way so that all criticle defensive situations we have him on the ice.
We do use him in regular pairings when there’s regular ebb and flow, but in criticle situations JJ’s it defensively.
If he was on the ice evenly for offensive situations you’d see DD’s numbers go more -, and JJ’s numbers go more +.
Just something to think on.
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KC23 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
@Dominick, Lets take a closer look. Nash was a -62 in his first 2 seasons and I don’t think many would of called him the best power forward in the league in those two seasons (2002-2003, 2003-2004).
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
@KC23,
The next season he played in Switzerland. Then only a +10 over the next 6 years. The team improved offensively, but not enough. He still plays too much D to bring those numbers up, even though he scores alot of points. My theories sound.
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
Also JJ’s offensive #’rs come almost exclusively off the power play which doesn’t figure into +/-.
TA Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
@puck73, Agree, DL should package one of our goalies and go after a top scoring winger.
Both the Devils and the flyers need a starting goalie.
I would love to get either Parise from NJ or Carter from the Flyers.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
@TA,
Based on what I’m hearing you wouldn’t want to go after Carter for sure. Parise may be a different story. No way no way and then no way again that I’d give up Bernier for Carter. Claude Giroux could be a different story again, but they wouldn’t trade him. I’m sure he’s close to untouchable. They would love to fleece the Kings – Carter for Bernier. Trust me. I expect Holmgren to try it.
Hopefully DL doesn’t bite.
Okay, Lombardi has made some serious bloopers. I still remember the gasps at the 07 draft party when he drafted Hickey. And then of course we have to look back at Crawford and Cloutier. Since then some of his picks have been okay. However, we still have a major dilemma. That dilemma’s name is Murray.His SYSTEM does not work!!!The Kings have no offense. The Murray system still goes to dump and chase and the other team usually picks up the puck ahead of a King. Murray has outlived his usefulness to the team. We now need a creative coach who would work with the strengths of each player, not just use a defense sytem that stifles scoring.Lombardi fired Crawford, how about doing the same to Murray?
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http://www.fan590.com/news/sports/more.jsp?content=s6818184
Bernier to start in the QF against Russia.
[Reply]
BluLiner Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@FKA PakiFro, I just saw that also. Hope to be able to watch the game and see if Bernier can help shut them down.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@FKA PakiFro,
My God man! If Bernier actually pulls it off the speculation of Quicks status as a Kings goalie will be through the roof this summer. LOL
Not that it isn’t already.
[Reply]
Rich,
will you be working Thursday?
[Reply]
Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@Dominick,
I think he’s waiting for us to get a little closer to 1000 comments. Or, he’s working on Evaluation: Jason, Usher Section 315 & 316.
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Hail Kings Fans!!!!
The Kings now have superior defense and goaltending. TM has got a defensive system of play that has gotten the Kings into the playoffs the last two years in a row; well done.
The problem is the 14 forwards. The Kings now have only 4 top-six forwards. (Penner, Kopitar, Williams, Brown). Penner is a reach, but is in a contract year coming up. Kopitar and Williams supplied more than 20% of the Kings offense last year!
The rest of the forwards are a bunch of under-skilled, old, overpaid, too-young, out-of-position misfits. The biggest problem is the lack of a real second line center.; ala Spezza or Richards.
In order to win in the Western Conf./Pacific division, we need a group of third & forth line forwards that can play a skilled, rough and tumble style of game and know their roles. Less dump and chase!!
DL added Smyth, Handzue, and Poni and spent $12M+ in the process last year!! He let go Moulson, Boyle and Purcell, all of whom had better years than Smyth, Handzus, and Poni at half the price! And many more years to come!!
DL waived Sturm; why not Harrold? Sturm went on to play with Semin and Arnott with the Caps.
DL created the debacle with Nagy and Cloutier; what a costly mess.
DL picked Hickey over Anzler. Anzler is a top pair d-man with the Caps. and Hickey is barely an AHL player.
DL traded for Penner. Penner reminds me of Roenick. Remember Roenick, who got a #5M one-year contract; came in 20#s overweight, and drove his new Bentley coupe all over town and scored something like 9 goals all year!! Penner needs to show up in shape and ready to play or should be waived prior to the season. Foxie was right!!
DL gave JJ a long-term $31M contract; who is yet to fulfill his potential after 4 NHL seasons and is -70+ at even strength! Is JJ really a LW PF??? Look at his numbers after the contract was signed.
Obviously, the real problem is how DL, RH, TM and Jack F. evaluate players. Who is Jack F. anyway???
The Kings should sign, DD, Simmonds, Martinez, Westgarth, King, and Lewis to reasonable contracts.
The Kings shouild not bring back Smyth, Handzus, or Poni. They should use this money to go after Spezza or Richards and a second line LW PF. The forwards would then look like this:
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
NewLWPF-NewC-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
King-Stoll-Lewis We need a “Light” and “Heavy” forth line.
Extra forward candidates: Brad R., Westgarth, Moller, LOK
I saw Muzzin, Voynov, and Jones play this year and they are very close to being NHL ready.
Well, thats my story and I’m sticking to it!! What do you guys think??
I will be at the training camp in September to see what the Kings are up to.
See you there!!!
GO Kings Go
Goldentoe
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
@Martin Hoffmann,
I personally would add Stoll to a top 6. This is just my own opinion, but I see Stoll improving this season offensively, and 28 is not over the hill like most believe. If we did get Richards (hypethetically) I think he plays Left wing. Schenn wouldn’t stay because of cap hit, and no one is going to just take Smyths cap hit for nothing. My alignment looks like this
Richards/Penner-Kopi-Williams/Brown
Smyth/Penner-Stoll/Richards-Williams/Brown
Clifford-Lokti/Stoll-Simmers
Smyth/Richardson-Lewis/Lokti-Richardson/whoever?=(more than likely Westy on most nights)
Judging from how much TM likes to mix his lines up, Richards would be a dream come true for him.
[Reply]
Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
@Martin Hoffmann, he didn’t add Handzus and Smyth last year, just Poni and Mitchell.
yes, Moulson scored 30+ goals but he was playing a ton of minutes + PP with Tavares. he was also a major minus player. Boyle scored some goals and Purcell played better, but again, they both played top-6 minutes.
anything DL did in the first couple of years was done to get to the cap floor and compete. he didn’t sign anyone to albatross contracts. they were short-term until the kids were ready. they aren’t relevant.
Alzner is a marginal player – Hickey missed a year and a half with injury. Hickey will be the better player.
the Penner deal was the right deal and he is nothing like Roenick. Roenick was at the end of his career cashing a paycheck. Penner played fine until Kopitar got hurt.
the JJ signing was brilliant. he’s 24 – look at comparable players at his age and what they are signing for. there is a reason Johnson was the #1 d-man for the US at the WC.
they don’t have a choice on Smyth – he is signed for one more year.
you want DL to get Spezza? $7M for him, huh? wow.
if DL can move Smyth then he would have the money to go after Richards. i just don’t think anyone will take on Smyth’s contract.
Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Parse-Richie-Lewis
Westgarth
good to go.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
@Dave,
Oh Dave. It’s you again
Well good post. You know I have my ?’s wrt DL but I back you up on everything you’ve said here. Yeah right, Jason Spezza whose best days are probably behind him – and in any case isn’t on an upward swing… for $7M.
OK.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
@Dave, That’s the line up the way I see it status quo. Richards is a possibility if DL can swing it, but the juggling wouldn’t include Smyth because there’s no way to unload his contract. Not that I would want too anyway. I think he’s still valuable to the Kings.
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Dave Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 12:25 am
@Dominick, there is no cap room for Richards unless DL does one of the following…
1. finds a taker for Smyth – highly unlikely
2. doesn’t re-sign Doughty – do i have to comment on that
3. trades Stoll + someone like Scuderi or Greene
#1 is very unlikely to happen and #2 and #3 don’t help the team.
I think I am tired or reading the same posts, only with different names ascribed to them.
OK, yes Moulson, Boyle, and Purcell (remember everyone here calling him TP?) had good years. I also do not remember anyone disagreeing with those guys being let go.
SO, for the last time: “We should have kept Moulson”; “We should have never traded Purcell”; “We should have kept Boyle”; “TM never gave those guys a chance”; “DL missed out on Perry”; and “We should have signed ______________”.
Now, can we live in the present?
Oh, BTW: Handzus is slow.
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
@Michael J.,
Michael, two points I want to make. A) Yeah Purcell loved Tom Petty so that’s why they called him TP (true or false)?
B) I too get a bit tired of the Moulson, TP, Boyle stories. But there are two points in that last sentence. One, for me the Boyle issue has nothing to do with DL but a lot to do w DT. I have no idea what he was thinking when they drafted him in the deepest first round probably ever. They had two back to back picks at the end of the first round – both before Corey Perry, and instead picked a project (Boyle) and a guy who could win an SC but in reality hasn’t done that much (Jeff Tambellini). But thats only cause he’s w Vancouver now.
The more relevant question to me would be why do the Kings have such a problem getting some of these guys to show the best of themselves here yet they manage it elsewhere. That could be a legit question.
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Both DL and TM are stepping-stone, builder guys that the team is outgrowing. For the team to take the next steps in its development, and progress to another level, they need to be replaced. Any improvement under this duo will be minimal.
DL is as advertised, and up to this point it was exactly what the Kings needed. He builds a good foundation for a team to grow from through the draft and player development. But it’s been years and years now. We need a GM who can win trades and be better at free agents signings than DL. For all the focus on his draft success though, you also need to balance it with making the worst pick in the whole 2007 draft. Which if the draft is your bread-and-butter, then you best not blow the 4th overall pick.
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Cristobal Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
@SeanO,
Going for Teubert as a role-filler (big and mean) over Myers still makes me upset.
I just don’t see DL as anything spectacular.
He’s highly average with the possible exception of getting high marks at selling himself and making people believe he’s working miracles.
King’s fans have low expectations. Until that changes DL will not have to answer for much.
The team is as average as he is. Without Kopitar, an exceptional talent, we are just another post-lockout team and you can predict outcomes about as well as flipping a coin.
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puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@SeanO, Nobody on this site, me and you included can say Thomas Hickey is a bust. This was his 1st season that he was healthy, and nearly played in all the games. Also, he did something in Manchester that he has done on every level of competetive hockey that he has ever played on, a high plus rating. Meanwhile Jack “The heart attack” Johnson at 24 has never achieved that status…EVER! I will tell you what, Hickey is 22 now, if he doesnt make this team, or some other team by 25 I will buy you a cold beverage, DEAL ?
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
@puck73,
Are you suggesting that Kings fans be patient?
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SeanO Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 10:12 am
@puck73, At this point he is a BUST. It could change, and I hope it will. One of the reasons he’s been hurt is he’s tiny for a d-man. Hickey was projected to go in the mid-to-late first round. Next two picks after him were Karl Alzner 6-2 210 d-man (+14 rating this season with Washington) and Sam Gagner who has scored 59 NHL goals so far. Both were rated to be drafted as high as they were. If Hickey was rated that high, then no blame on the GM, sometimes highly rated draft picks don’t work out. But to reach like that and pass over two guys who we really needed, is totally on DL.
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tellmeY Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@SeanO, um…the ’07 draft was kind of a bust.
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Michael J. Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
@tellmeY,
Wow! You are right. Other than Kane and Couture nobody had made any kind of real impact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NHL_Entry_Draft#Round_one
After looking at the draft as a whole, the Hickey pick doesn’t look so bad.
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hipcheck Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@Michael J.,
Here is a better site to analyze 2007…..taking a look I say ouch.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2007e.html
SeanO Reply:
May 16th, 2011 at 10:20 am
@Michael J., Yes, more than Kane and Couture have made an impact…as I pointed out above – Hickey was projected to go in the mid-to-late first round. Next two picks after him were Karl Alzner 6-2 210 d-man (+14 rating this season with Washington) and Sam Gagner who has scored 59 NHL goals so far. Both were rated to be drafted as high as they were. If Hickey was rated that high, then no blame on the GM, sometimes highly rated draft picks don’t work out. But to reach like that and pass over two guys who we really needed, is totally on DL.
Looking at the top ten for 2007, it’s pretty solid.
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
@tellmeY,
Hard to call it a bust, for us anyways. If you get 1 or 2 players per draft that play in the NHL, it’s a victory. The Kings currently have 3 with the big club right now in
Oscar Moller 2nd round
Wayne Simmonds 2nd round
Alec Martinez 4rth round
They also have Hickey, and Muzzin who were very close last season to sticking out of camp, and King who will get some more seasoning and might even get more regular call ups as time goes by. By my account that is 6. Better % than any other team in that draft.
I’m just sayin.
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Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Forgot Westy! that’s 7.
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
OOOPS! Westy was a signing. Back to 6.
Sorry I just dont feel he did anything to improve this years team. He added Mitchell which was good but this team needed scoring. He did not do enough to get a grade better than a c+.
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Im sorry also…but I like your GM…he smart, and patient, and we shoul’ve beaten he Sharks. Without your top 2 scorers it was not that hard with the team we had out there so you can imagine adding a healthy Kopi, a fully healthy Williams, and a “better in shape physically and mentally Penner. I gave him an A which is what he deserves adding loads of young talent. It is time and it will happen where we can pick up the (right) superstar. Not worried at all because next season will be awesome.
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Get rid of Penner and get Jagr in a Kings jersey
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SLIM Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
@Kings4Life,
mixing the letters of “Jaromir” actually spells “Mario Jr”…
He is one of a very elite group of hockey players to have won the Stanley Cup (1991, 1992), the Ice Hockey World Championships (2005, 2010), and the Olympic gold medal in ice hockey (1998). This is known as the Triple Gold Club
Is this the guy you mean?
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DL Grade: D. Tampa Bay with the same record the same year Kings got DD and they got Stamkos and Purcell now as well is kicking DL’s Butt. Tampa: Semis. Kings:1st Round Goodbye again. Scoreboard DL.
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Dave Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:03 pm
@Poorman, wow – just wow.
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Poorman Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
@Dave, huge Kings Fan. DL and TM have had a huge honeymoon. They need results.
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Dave Reply:
May 12th, 2011 at 12:26 am
@Poorman, you don’t take into account Kopitar’s injury as being a major reason we didn’t get to the 2nd round?
puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
@Poorman, I was wondering when you were gonna show up again Jimmy. I gave Dean a B, I think he has totally rebuilt our goaltending and defense, and the good news is, the core is young. On offense, he has stockpiled centers, where we need help is on wing, and I think this offseason you are going to see alot accomplished since wingers are valued the least in trades. BTW Jimmy, are we going to see you at rookie camp or frozen fury? Also, will you be throwing a get together for some of your favorite bloggers on this site, hint , hint ? !
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Poorman Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
@puck73, Yeah, I’ll host a gig somewhere, and slam a few beers. That would be fun. My radio show is going in syndication in a month, so things are getting good again. Maybe, you and Rich can direct me on where to do this, and we’ll invite a few bikini girls. That would probably get a few players attending!!!!!
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puck73 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
@Poorman, Will you invite Quick ?
Poorman Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
@Poorman, hahahhahaha if he brings his wife there.
Dominick Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
@Poorman,
Bernier’s birthday is August 7th. LOL
gave DL a C+, Mitchell was a good signing, our best Dman all year.
But Poni,Strum,Penner all bad moves.
This off season will tell us a lot if DL will improve our biggest weakness. speed & skill in our top 6 forwards. Richards would fit in well a good 2-way forward who can play both C and LW.
Or there are a couple of teams that are in need of a starting goalie, New Jersey & Flyers.
DL should package one of our goalies and Drewiske or JJ. For either Parise from NJ, or Carter from the Flyers. Again this summer we will see if DL will deliver or not!
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number 6 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
@TA,
I said it above to your post. Trust me! We don’t want Carter. If he does you’ll be on this site saying what the h….. did he do? We got fleeced. There are issues in the Flyers room and Carter is evidently linked to it in some way. I’d rather not go into details. Do a google if you wish.
Also someone who covers the Flyers was on nhl homeice and he was not terribly convinced wrt Carter.
Especially a team that plays a different more fluid style than the Kings and he’s not reproduced the 50 he scored a few years ago. So if he’s scored 35 in Philly then with a less talented group of forwards and TM’s system you know that would drop probably to the low 20″s.
Meanwhile in three years when Bernier would be backstopping a good team in the east to the third round you would NOT be a happy bunny.
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CB14 Reply:
May 11th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
@TA, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the 1 signing DL had that played very well was a defenseman, while the 3 disappointing players were all forwards. I believe the blame should be on Terry Murray, not Dean Lombardi.
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Can DL draft this 9 year old kid? http://youtu.be/_Smblocw-bE He has more skill than most of our forwards already.
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The organization is drafting and developing talent like never before. I remember not that long ago the Kings finishing 13th in Conference and the prevailing attitude among fans on the message boards was that we were perhaps only one player away from jumping to a 5-6 playoff seed, then anything could happen in the playoffs. That was the plan. If only the Kings could acquire an Anson Carter, a Mike Commador, a Ray Emery etc. etc. If only Jeff Cowan would realize his potential and become the 25 goal scorer he was destined to become. Perhaps Eric Rassmussan(?) would develop into a premiere power forward. Before Lombardi changed the focus of this orgainization and FINALLY began to build a foundation for the first time in it’s history, the Kings, over their history, in total, were arguably the worst franchise in professional sports. It takes time to rise up from decades of totally inept management. I for one hope the Kings never allow themselves to become so unrealistically delusional as to go down that failed path again.
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The best thing Dean Lombardi did was not sign Ilya Kovalchuk. That anchor of a contract would have been disasterous for this franchise for years to come if he had signed him. When I saw the Thrashers play better without Kovalchuk, I knew right then that we didnt need him. We all saw Devils coach John Mcclain get the axe because of Kovalchuk. If a coach cant get along with him, guess whose going to go…not the man with the albatross of a contract!!!
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DL is a superb GM and — thank God — knows how to work the salary cap.
His deal to nail down Quick AND Bernier for a total hit of little over $3 mil per season was masterful. He traded off a few million per season to get Smyth, whose cap hit is $6 mil+, but whose actual out-of-pocket is much less. And Smyth brought to this team exactly what we hoped he’d bring.
I was among those who crabbed about the O’Sullivan-Williams three-way — especially since JW was hurt when he came here. NOW look at that deal. Was DL wrong? Or was it the fussbudgets like me who were fulla beans?
For some weird reason DL has the reputation of being cheap, being a guy who won’t lay out the dough for the talent or take the risks to build a team. Was there another team who offered Willie Mitchell — the best UFA D-man at the time — a two-year deal at $3-mil+? Or was every other GM shying away from a guy who’s been hit in the noggin too many times to take a chance on?
And without seeing the inconsistency in their logic, the same guys who call DL cheap complain that he OVERpays for some guys — guys like Scuds and Zeus and, yes, Mitchell, and virtually all the character players in our locker room..
Last summer EVERYBODY was talking Kovalchuk and how the Kings needed him more than the team bus. He was wheeled out here to be whined and dined and coffee-ed and wooed and all the rest of it. Remember the laughter — especially from the Knowledgeable Eastern Hockey Establishment — when the ol’ fox Lamoriello snarfed Kovy out from under DL’s hands. I guess DL was just too cheap to pay the price. Who’s paying that price now?
Contrary to what’s been said above, Doughty was NOT a no-brainer. The only no-brainer in that year’s draft was Steve Stamkos. It was the guy who had the number two pick who was really under pressure to get it right. And DL got it right. Have you forgotten the push for Bogosian? Has ANYONE forgotten that Dewey had played well in the joints but was just a fat kid when the Kings first eye-balled him?
I’ve been a fan a lo-o-ong time. I’ve seen two favorites — Danny Maloney and Terry Harper — get sent to Detroit for Marcel Dionne, a great center who — for all his scoring — never got us past the second round of the playoffs. I saw us us trade a pick to the Bruins for Ron Grahame, a good goalie whom Bob Berry never made proper use of. The pick we sent east turned out to be Ray Bourque.
The Kings have traditionally been regarded as the league’s farm club. Read some original-six blogs. It’s an enlightening experience. When the Kings are mentioned it’s merely as a repository of fresh talent, talent which Toronto or the Rangers assume can be extracted from us in trades where we give up Simmonds or Brown or Bernier in exchange for some expensive marquee has-been whose contract they’re desperate to unload.
DL has changed that. He knows when to pay a big price for a big gain. If occasionally he misses the mark, his aim is no worse than anyone else’s. He’s done a great job for this organization and those of you who can’t see it have forgotten how bad it was here before he arrived.
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