JONATHAN BERNIER
This season: 25 games, 11-8-3 record, 2.48 goals-against average, .913 save percentage.
The good: Whatever Bernier did during the All-Star break, it worked. In 14 games before the break, Bernier had a 3.08 goals-against average and a .893 save percentage. In 11 games after the break, Bernier had a 1.70 goals-against average and a .939 save percentage and did not lose in regulation. From February on, Bernier looked poised and confident and looked very much like the player who won AHL goalie of the year honors in 2009-10. Even when he went long stretches without playing, Bernier remained sharp. Perhaps most importantly, he didn’t pout, he maintained a good attitude and said all the right things even as Jonathan Quick got 11 of the 12 starts down the stretch.
The bad: Bernier still needs to prove that he can put together a full season in the NHL. The same thing happened with him in the AHL. Bernier was inconsistent in his first season with Manchester, then was outstanding in his second season. Bernier needs a strong start next season in order to earn increased confidence from Terry Murray.
Going forward: Bernier and Quick are both under contract for two more seasons at great values to the team — Quick makes $1.8 million, Bernier makes $1.25 million — so there’s nothing wrong with keeping them as a 1-2 punch for next season. What happens, though, if the Kings can make a trade for a big-time scorer in his prime? Would they pull the trigger and include Bernier in a trade? Coaches and scouts rave about Bernier and his talent, but both goalies aren’t staying in Los Angeles forever. Is now the time to move one, and upgrade at another position?
–Off-topic note–
A bow of the head to the memory of Ace Bailey, Los Angeles Kings killed on 9/11/2001 on the Boston-Los Angeles jet which crashed into the WTC…
May he rest in peace today, with an otherworldly smile on his face at the death of OBL.
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Rainman Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:10 am
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, Let’s also remember Mark Bavis, whose life was also cut short that tragic day.
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IceGuy Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:31 pm
@Rainman,
I hope that recent events bring some closure to both the Bavis and Baily families. As long as the Kings skate, Ace and Mark will be a part of the team, and in our thoughts. Peace to both families.
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deadcatbounce Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, And I hope that people take time out to remember all the others of thousands who lost their lives as well.
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JB needs to work on the shootouts, rebounds & maybe puck-handeling…if he continues to improve this guy will be MONEY! I <3 having 2 SOLID GOALTENDERS!!! can somebody invent a time machine and send one of the Jonathan's back in time in place of the Storr/Chechmanek/Cloutier-era?!?!
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 pm
@SHUCHUK, DL, this is your year of success or failing with the King’s. Thing’s to do;
– get a left winger who can score to take the pressure of Kopitar
– fix the second line. If you keep Smyth and Stoll, you will still struggle to
make the play-offs.
– get a center for the 3rd line who can skate and drop the gloves when needed
(no show-fights}to play with two of your best heart and soul player’s.
– I believe most fan’s are tired of seeing two 6’5 inch guy’s doing the show
dance. So, get some pop in the fourth line. It should be easy — does not
cost much.
You have a gold nugget in your pocket(Bernier)and I hope you will use it wisely. DL, for me this is your make or break year. After 4 years re-building, your record is so, so, with many of your draft pick’s still in the minor’s and what appears to be indiscision regarding Schenn.
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kings4queens Reply:
May 3rd, 2011 at 3:16 am
@garry,
It’s been interesting to watch the playoffs, with Purcell and Sturm lighting it up for Tampa Bay and the Caps. I have been a believer in the DL plan too, but with the way that TM treats Parse, Moller, and Penner, I’m beginning to get a new picture of what it must be like for a truely offensive player on the Kings team, and I actually thought that those players were happier not being a part of the Kings organization.
From Hockey Fest 09: Teddy Purcell was supposed to be a brilliant player…he had to mature, they gave him his chances but he wasn’t defensive minded enough, and didn’t score enough in the limited games before they traded him off.
Marco Sturm was supposed to fill the gap in our 1st line, but was coming back from knee surgery, and they put him on waivers, and of course he was picked up and is doing everything the Kings needed him to do now, for another team.
Dustin Penner was also supposed to fill the gap in our 1st line, and did well when he was skating with Kopi and Williams. They both got hurt and suddenly he is the whipping boy of the team. In all fairness, I think, if we learned anything from the above, that maybe we should wait until next season to judge him.
Scott Parse can’t get a break with Murray. I think Murray hates the kid (like he hates Moller). I don’t know why, but Murray seems to get infruriated with him when he is trying his best to put the puck to the net. Defensive breakdowns seem to send Murray into a rage.
Without Kopi, this team is a bit lost. No one wants to say it but it’s true. And I commend them for what they were able to accomplish without him, but in order to contend, the Kings need Kopitar (I bet Penguins fans are saying the same about Crosby.
I don’t think Dean needs to trade away Bernier. I KNOW he’s not going to give up Schenn, for anything but a major deal. But DL has lots of other options to improve this team, prospect wise, and I think he will finally do it to get the important players that we need to be serious contenders. Let’s dump Smythe and get Datsuk instead.
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garry Reply:
May 3rd, 2011 at 9:42 am
@kings4queens, We also lost Moulson and Boyle both were given up on. TM and DL are too impatient and giving all this talent up for zero really bug’s me!
Bernier was a tremendous upgrade over Ersberg. I’m hoping that he gets another upgrade in usage next year in preparation for a long, deep run into the playoffs.
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:32 am
@ViperHockey, I believe everyone know’s you cannot keep both and a trade envolving Baernier is a certainty. He has proven his talent and what team in need of a goalie would not want him at his salary. We trade only for very, very, talented forward. You hold the aces DL! Do you want him to sit as back-up and play a few games or make it happen!
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HawKings Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:44 pm
@garry, Not sure how you can say “a trade envolving (sic) is a certainty.” And for what it is worth, I am a big Quick supporter and am very comfortable at this time having him as our #1. But let’s not forget that DL has been down this path before with Nabakov, Kiprusoff and Toskala. Yes, someone will get moved at some point in the future, but I ma betting it does not happen until after the next season when things might be a little more clearer as to who to keep and who is affordable (able to be signed to an extension). Obviously this can change of we see available names such as Nash, Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin but unless players at that level become available, we will likely be seeing both Jons for at least another season.
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I actually think Quick may have more trade value, but I would not be surprised to see one them gone during the off-season. I wouldn’t put money on it necessarily, but I think it’s a distinct possibility, especially if DL thinks the right scorer is available via trade. There’s only one net, and in this day and age a team needs a stand-out starter and a capable back up. I’m not sure two starting-quality goaltenders is a luxury the Kings can afford (from a resource perspective as opposed to a financial perspective) if the right deal comes along.
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:24 am
@Seitz, Right now, they can afford it for at least 2 more seasons at a low cap hit.
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Seitz Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:38 am
@puck73, That’s what I mean by “resource” as opposed to “financial”. I know they can afford to pay both of them. I’m not sure it’s a wise use of resources to have a player of Bernier’s (or Quick’s – depending on who you go with) value lingering on the bench for 50-55 games per year. Especially when you could turn that value into a big-time scorer.
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
@Seitz, Right on! You cannot sit on this one DL.
kevin from toronto Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:36 am
@Seitz, Bernier & a draft pick for Semin?
Yes please!
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Shotongoal Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:54 pm
@kevin from toronto, I love Quick, but I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Bernier. I do agree that they may need to trade surplus (goalies) for need (scorer). I just think that in the long run they would be better off with that being Quick and not Bernier. I’m not sure Semin is the answer though. Off the top of my head, teams to look at in need of goalies and could help the Kings with a scorer: PHIL, NYI, EDM, COLM, WASH, NJ, ANA (if Hiller doesn’t come back, although can’t see these two teams getting together on a blockbuster, but it might be pretty cool if they did), TOR, just to name a handful….
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kevin from toronto Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:28 pm
@Shotongoal, Maybe Philly. NYI wouldnt give up their youth. Maybe Edmonton, Colorado, NJ could use Bernier for the future, but it’s still Brodeur’s team.
Washington makes sense. They need a goalie, but then again they need a goalie with more experience than Bernier.
I would love a line of Penner/Kopitar/Semin.
Shotongoal Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@Shotongoal, yeah but I’d still rather give up Quick in trade, not Bernier…and if they give up either one, it would have to be for a legit 35-40 goal scorer and 80+ points per year…IMO
I don’t believe that there should be any surprise in the shaky first half that Bernier had. Playing in the NHL and getting irregular action led to inconsistent performances. The second half of the season he became more comfortable and familiar and his play was very good.
In terms of the future, I am not sold on the idea that the Kings can trade Bernier. His upside is far too high. I am not necessarily one who thinks that Bernier is the answer, and certainly Quiok has earned his status as the number one goalie. But, trading Bernie is way too premature at this point. Bernier could well end up being THE goalie in the NHL for over a decade. There are some hockey people who believe he is the next great goalie. Whether that will actually happen or not, who knows. But, we certainly should not give upp on him at this point. We have the luxury of letting this play out for awhile and I absolutely think that the longer things go, the clearer the picture is.
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tornado12 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 am
@scvking, great post! I hope DL feels the same. how much would it hurt if got traded and became the next Roy?
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Pesus Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:32 am
@scvking,
Agree we should wait cuz I think we are all afraid of the same thing. Trading away the better goalie. What a shame that would be cuz we have waited soooooo long for a game changer in net.
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 am
@scvking, Now this is what I call a reasonable post.
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Bill M. Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am
@scvking, Totally agree. Both guys are affordable, so lets see where it goes. Bernier is still very young as a goalie, and Quick is just entering his prime. Unless a team is REALLY needing a goalie and is willing to give up a top end scorer to get one, we need to get a much longer look at Bernier before the decision is made.
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:36 am
@scvking, Well if you believe, then trade Quick. My point is — you can’t keep both when we need scoring so badly.
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scvking Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@garry,
This is really an interesting debate, isn’t it? And I certainly do not have the absolute answer to what is the best course of action.
I am looking at who is going to be the best goalie 3-5 years out, and I do not know the answer to that. My fear is this (an actual nightmare, honestly) We trade Bernier and get to the finals and lose to Bernier!
I am unlike a lot of fans on this site, where I have quite a bit of patience with regard to this team. I don’t feel as though we have a short window of opportunity, most of our core group is young. I do not think we need to be rash and try to get that one guy who takes us to the next level right now, especially if it means trading one of our goalies.
I have suffered, as many have, with the losing years, and one of the reasons for those years is that we never seemed to have a solid goalie. Maybe Quick is that guy, and he gets better and better. Maybe Bernier is the better of the two. I don’t know how it plays out. But, I am advocating that we do have the luxury of time, at least for another year or so, to get more information and make a decision that is more sound.
All that being said, I honestly believe that a valid argument can be made for trading Bernier, or Quick, or neither. And that is what makes this a terrific debate, because everyone can be correct (at least until we get down the road a few years and find out what the really correct decision was!)
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spidey35 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@scvking,
DL was in the same position in San Jose, he traded Kiprusoff to Calgary and look at what kind of goalie he’s been for them.
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Its a nice problem to have, having what I believe will both be #1 goaltenders in this league for a long time. I think you have to consider packaging one of them in a deal for a big time scorer. My concern is that if a deal like that can be made,its gotta be for a legit,can’t miss sniper. DL has not proven to me that he can make that kind of deal.
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scvking Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:22 am
@EncinoMan,
But DL has proven that he doesn’t make the wrong deal either. He has, to my knowledge, passed on deals he should have passed on. Sure, the blockbuster hasn’t happened, but maybe it hasn’t been there. I think he could have gotten players but not at a price that made sense.
I would think that teams are reluctant to give the Kings the player that they need, without exacting a steep or ridiculous price. So far, DL has been patient. I know that drives some fans crazy, but I feel he has been prudent to this point anyway.
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rick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:45 am
@scvking, I would call Penner the “wrong deal” based on what I have seen so far.
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HockeyEngineer Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:21 am
@rick,
Penner is a complimentary player. He was not brought in as “the Guy”. When Kopitar went down, it really changed his role. I’ll reserve judgment until next season.
rick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:47 am
@hockey engineer I don’t know what Penner was brought in as. All I know is that the guy was lazy and ummotivated. The Kopitar injury does not excuse lack of effort and compete.
Duckhunter Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:47 am
@rick, But what exactly did we give up for Penner? A defenseman that couldn’t crack our top six for at least 2 maybe 3 years…a 1st rounder in a weak draft (there is better value in second round for less money in this draft).
Penner is a very good compliment to Kopi…Kopi creates…Penner finishes…Williams retrieves what a line when together….but Penner needs to be in better shape…I’m not willing to say it was a bust YET (give Penner training camp…he’s still tradeable…and will be through the trade deadline next year).
spidey35 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@rick,
I’m going to have to wait and see what Penner does next year for me to evaluate that trade.
scvking Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@rick,
I think we are talking about different kinds of moves here. I am discussing the trading of a core player or budding superstar and DL has been wise not to make a rash move.
The Penner trade was obtaining a player in exchange for small price. Hardly the thing that I am talking about.
I agree with the comments about Penner from some others here who mention that Penner is not the playmake, he feeds off those who are. Kopi and Penner will be fine together next year. Penner has to put the time in during the offseason, and he will have to learn the system, but I think he has a chance to be a huge player for us next year.
puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am
@EncinoMan, Fact is, New Jersey needs a goaltender to replace Martin Brodeur who is in the twilight of his career. The other fact is, that thanx to the stupid signing of Kovalspank it will be much harder to sign Parise. I think this is a trade that can get done if both Dean and Lou can work out the paramaters. I am very sure that other players would be involved since Parise is a proven commodity, where as Bernier is 22 and has tremendous upside. Also, Colorado supposedly has interest in Bernier as well, but unless they are willing to part with either Stasney, or Duchene, if I was Dean I wouldnt even take their phone call.
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Duckhunter Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:52 am
@puck73, this is a trade that makes sense on both’s part and really is the only deal that I’d give up one of our goalies for…Parise…don’t see it happening though too many moving parts…we’d have to accept more salary than what we have under the cap…a 3rd and/or 4th team would probably have to be involved and you rarely see that in the NHL.
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:38 am
@EncinoMan, And that is a major concern! His record in this area is not so hot.
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Someone voted “F” – !? Curious to know your reasoning.
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fuzzerson Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:25 am
@dMan, I believe that was Jon Quick.
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fuzzerson Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:38 am
@fuzzerson, Jon Quick answered the question, not that JQ was an F
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tornado12 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:31 am
@dMan, duck or shark fan
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dMan Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:15 am
@tornado12, possibly, but would love for the person to identify himself/herself…
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I would keep both under their current contract terms as insurance for an injury.
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:39 am
@OJ, And you will be happy for finishing as we have the last two season’s.
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–Off-topic note–
Who do you think we will go after this off season? I don’t think BR from Dalles is a good fit, but thats just me. THOUGHTS ANYONE.
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Bernier, Doughty, the 49th pick (Kings Second) for Taylor Hall, the 19th pick (previously aquired) and the 31st pick (Edm 2nd)
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KING LOPEZ Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:26 am
@fuzzerson, Your kidding right?
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number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@KING LOPEZ,
No need to be alarmed though…. I think thats Sam McMaster using his blog alias
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Markcmann Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:27 am
@fuzzerson, Wow, Doughty has an inconsistent year at the age of 21 and you are ready to get rid of the guy? Wow, I’m sure glad you are not the Kings GM! Golly…
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fuzzerson Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:39 am
@Markcmann, Nope but we are so deep at puck moving D Men and Taylor Hall is that young scoring LW we need.
Edm wont do DD for TH straight up.
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:41 am
@fuzzerson, I guess you forgot what a briiliant trade George Maguire made trading young defensemen Larry Murphy ! ….oh wait
Bill M. Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:04 am
@fuzzerson, Please. A Norris Nominated, #2 pick, still underdeveloped blue liner, for a #1 pick who managed to a have a decent second half of his rookie year? That trade is already so lopsided it’s laughable, and you want to throw in one of the league’s best goalie prospects as well? AND picks?
Get off of Doughty, people. Sure we are overloaded at puck moving D, but doughty is the last one you move. HE’S 21! How many of us were responsible, consistently top performing employees at the age of 21? yeah, thought so.
The fact of the matter is that even the mediocre Doughty we got this year is still quite impressive for a 21 year old blue liner. His season, for someone his age, only looks bad because it stands next to a Norris-worthy performance. If last year didn’t happen, we aren’t having this conversation, we are still all talking about how he’s gonna break out in a couple years and be great. The fact is, the real Doughty probably won’t show up for a couple more years. When he does, he’ll shatter even last years effort, and win the Norris, and hopefully a Conn Smythe or something
I really don’t want to see Doughty blossom on another team. Lots of people screaming for Dean to move him now, but if he did, those same people will be back here in two or three years when he wins the Norris, screaming that Lombardi should be fired for ever trading the guy. Some people are so reactionary…
If we were forced to part with a star player, I’d give up anybody but Kopi and Doughty. ANYBODY.
number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:05 pm
@fuzzerson,
fuzzerson…. WHAT are you eating? or dreaming…. or..
………. nevermind
tornado12 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:52 am
@fuzzerson, lol…good one! the only way DD is traded is if the names crosby or ovi came up, which wont happen!
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garry Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:41 am
@fuzzerson, Your kidding us —- right??
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fuzzerson Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:36 pm
@garry, not kidding at all. We are so deep on the back end and so weak on the wings. Improvment is not going to happen via UFA.
I possed the question of DD straight up for TH on HF Board, oil site. No one would take DD straight up for TH. I got the same you have to be kidding comments from them. So given the both sides are unhappy about it…
Must mean it is a good deal.
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jet Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@fuzzerson, I think we are more likely to see, Bernier and Holloway for Hall and the Oilers first this year and first next year. We are still taking it on the chin here, but it is worth discussing.
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PP Anybody? Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 2:43 pm
@jet, Dream on.
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jet Reply:
May 3rd, 2011 at 9:32 am
@PP Anybody?, you are right, DL would never get taken like this.
spidey35 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@fuzzerson,
As it may seem that some trade proposals are crazy and would never happen. I have learned to never say never. I remember when a player named Gretz, oh what was name, Gretzky. that’s it. Nobody saw that one coming, but funnier things do happen, like some of these proposals
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Shotongoal Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:46 pm
@fuzzerson, this doesn’t even deserve a response…..
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I think Quick will remain the #1 as long as TM is around. Just cuz our style tends to get us into alot of ot games and shootouts. Quick is way better at the shootout then Bernier. Quick may be the best at shootouts. If I recall Bernier was something like 1-5 in the shootout in manchester.
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Dan H. Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:00 am
@Pesus,
0-2 in LA.
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grega11 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:15 am
@Pesus, Quick is a monster in SO, but just to play devil`s advocate… there are no SO in playoffs
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Okay, who is the Ducks fan that gave JB an ‘F’ rating? Go away!
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:36 am
@Markcmann, LMAO yea i know right get lost u ducks fans
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You didn’t have an A- there…so I had to give him an A by default…
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DesertKing Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:32 am
@Buster,
I gave him an “A” in his role as the back-up goalie. He had a better than average record for a back-up and every time he took the ice, none of us had the “oh no, not the back up?” moment. Now, if we had to grade him as the starting goal tender,the grade would be a little different.
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SLIM Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 2:16 pm
@DesertKing,
I gave him an “A” cause “he” will be
the next “Roy”..He grew up in my hometown
Of Laval..Suburb of Montreal…
I’m surprised the “habs” weren’t all over him..
Bernier is the future of the Kings…
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We need both goalies until we have a real cup contender team.
Quick and Bernier are all upside and will gain value over the years of their contracts. No doubt about that.
And the goalie pipeline in the CHL and minors is also excellent. Never thought I’d say those words based on team history.
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rick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:49 am
@Token, Respectfully disagree. Trading one of these two is the most viable route to becoming a “real cup contender team”. We have great depth at goaltender, and mediocre forwards. Something has to give.
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Dominick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:32 pm
@Token,
Agreed. Trading away a strength simply to try and shore up another position is something that DL has never done as GM. He had two number 1′s in San Jose and despite all that depth, he let them fight it out for like 4 years before making a decision. Goaltending is the one strength we don’t have to worry about, which has always been a staple of any team that DL has built. He even says that he wanted to build from the goaltender out. The defnse has alot of depth, and we’re always in a position to upgrade the forward corps.
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Teams needing goalies could be Philly & NJ. Let’s see how well the goalies in Philly play. Boston took it to Philly in game 1 with 7 goals & Martin Brodeur in NJ is not getting any younger and his back-up is pretty old too. If DL can get a playmaker from either of these teams, we might just have to move JB as it looks as though Kings management has chosen Quick as our #1. I could see DL doing a sign and trade or some other deal with these teams.
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number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@King Alex,
NJ only has one playmaker and great overall winger not named Kovi, and he (Parise) probably ain’t goin anywhere.
Now Philly….. they seem to enjoy musical goalies. Whether or not that will eventually bite em in the bum I don’t know…. but I hope so
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I gave him a B. He’s solid so far as a backup and is maturing. I think he’ll be good and I’m glad we have a problem like this in goal…if you call it a problem. Most teams call it a blessing.
I’ve been a fan a long time and we have never had this good of a goalie tandem…or even close.
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I love Quick and Bernier, but it’s bitter sweet. You guys know one of them is going to leave. I don’t know who I’d want to keep. They are both awesome goalies.
If there is one thing to take into consideration, Quick will be demanding more money than Bernier when their contracts expire.
I voted ‘A’.
The Bad? He has to prove he can play a full season? He hasn’t done anything to show he can’t, nor has he been given the opportunity. As long as Quick is around, playing his normal game, Bernier will for ever be the #2.
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tornado12 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:54 am
@kevin from toronto, if quick is ever injured for a prolonged period, we will all be VERY happy we have bernier
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Dominick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@kevin from toronto,
Both goalies combined are below league averages for what teams spend. Even if DL gave them a mill each, we would only be at an average, so money is not an issue, and DL has plenty of time to prepare for that scenario.
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I’d be in zero hurry to trade either of them unless it’s top 6 forward and a 1st round pick. In other words, no “fair” trade – only if someone is willing to overpay.
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:45 am
@Weasel, Agreed.
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IceGuy Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@puck73,
I am right in line with that thinking.
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number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:10 pm
@Weasel,
I agree with you and I also think that if Bernier proves himself even more then it enables the Kings to be in an even more secure and stronger position to make a trade. As much as I like Quick, I think the upside on Bernier might be huge. He just makes thinks look simple because he’s so sound positionally.
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Shotongoal Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:50 pm
@Weasel, agree too, unless it was just a blowout blockbuster, like Rick Nash big!!
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Solid rookie season.
I gave him a B
He didn’t have a good first half, but the light went on during the 2nd half and he was as reliable as you could ask. He’s got a bright future. Not sure long term what the Kings will do..both goalies are very good. Tough decisions in the next couple of years for DL…this may be the toughest of all.
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:50 am
@nykingfan, Lets be honest though dude, these are the kind of decisions that you and I as a fan of the Kings have always hoped for. The kind where you have overstock, and other GM’S are drooling, and foaming at the mouth. Gone are the days wher when we needed a player bad, another GM had a gun to our head. Let them all line up and make offers and Dean will either get the best value, or just stand pat with 2 young goalies with a low cap hit !
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mrbrett7 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:20 am
@puck73, So glad I don’t need to make this decision.
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nykingfan Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:19 am
@puck73,
Oh hell yeah!
We’ve never had 1 reliable goaltender, let alone 2.both young and very good.
We finally get to deal from a position of strength. Miracles do happen!
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jet Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@nykingfan, “Miracles do happen” weve been Lombardied. Look at the Sharks flailing in goal now.
not bad for his first year and not getting as much action as he is used to. i agree though, with JQ being the true #1 and getting better and better every year, i dont see room for Bernier long term in LA.
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Now is the time to move either Quick or Bernier for a scorer while their values are both high! Both goalies are fantastic but I honestly think that Bernier has a higher ceiling and will be an all-star for years to come.
GKG
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nykingfan Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:20 am
@duckhater,
Why rush the decision when you don’t have to?
Unless you think either or both got lucky, they’ll only get better which means they’ll bring back more value.
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Dominick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:55 pm
@nykingfan,
Absolutely. The thought that these 2 have topped out and won’t be anymore valuable than they are now is just panic talk to spend an asset that we don’t have to spend to aquire a scorer that we have yet to see materialize at even a fair price.
The last couple of years the Kings have been agressively seeking such a player, but the ones who have been available have been way overpriced to sign, and I am glad we didn’t land them. I do believe we’re only a player or 2 away, so until someone comes along where it makes sense to trade away one of our goalies, we should stand pat.
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number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@Dominick,
Yep Monsieur Dominick. You are ab so lute ly right.
Who the hell gave him an F?
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Sebastian Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:12 am
@Helvetica, its not just kings fans that check this site out. there lots of trolls out there on the internet and one found his way here. most likely a quack fan.
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number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@Sebastian,
No, I’d say probably some SJ fan who didn’t like the fact that TM didn’t sha…… oh no, That Again?!!
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DesertKing Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 am
@Helvetica,
His math teacher. He has a hard time converting trigonometry into Castillian Spanish geomtery o his protractor. I think his math teacher is a Duck’s fan.
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Buster Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 2:00 pm
@Helvetica, Some Duck fan that thought F stands for FABULOUS!?
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I gave him a B
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Capt Jam Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:24 am
@bronks81,
Me too. Had the season just been the second half, I probably would’ve kicked it up to an A. But one has to recognize the hard work he put him to improve his performance, which isn’t easy when you play as irregularly as he did.
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Dominick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@Capt Jam,
That’s exactly why I gave him a B. His irregular play is natural for a goalie just breaking into the league. He had to learn that no matter how much he played, he had to be consistant, which is something he’s never had to learn before. IMO it’s made him better, and given him a perspective of the big picture, and an attitude that if he wants it, he’ll have to work for it, rather than having it just given to him.
Many were expecting the world of JB, and for him to suplant Quick, but forget that he’s only a rookie, in his first year.
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B+
He was really good in the second part of the season
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I’m still quite tough on this kid. He would actually push Quick if he could control a rebound or two. Until he learns how to control his rebounds, he will be a career backup at the NHL level. That, and only that, are what is holding him back.
I have him a C+.
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AS we saw with the Ducks this season you are just one freak injury or symptom away to your goaltender from having to rely upon a back-up. It seemed like the Ducks were going to be borderline a strong strong force with a healthy Hiller in nets, and then it all sorta fell apart. I think having some depth at goaltending is going to be so helpful for us if anything (god forbid) happens.
Perhaps after next year one of the studs in Manchester can then take the reins as back-up
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Dominick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:27 pm
@Shakes,
Exactly. The Kings had such a huge lead on them at the 1/2 way mark, and we even played well down the stretch. Ducksfans didn’t even believe they could make the playoffs. They caught up to us and passed us, without Hiller and Getslaf for most of it. Hiller would have made them a monster in the playoffs.
If we traded Bernier, and Quick had an extended injury, we would be scrambling like the Ducks did, just to find a goalie that could carry us the rest of the way. They had to trade away their back up to try and upgrade, and sign a guy who spent an entire year off recovering from a major hip surgery, and place the fate of their season to one of them.
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Shotongoal Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@Shakes, I’m not in total disagreement on this, but can we at least agree that the Kings HAVE to get top 6 scoring help for next season? If we are in agreement, then please give me your thoughts on how to acquire that. I truly think that Bernier is a possible franchise goalie, but I also think Quick was the teams overall MVP this season…..So do they do nothing as far as the goalies go this offseason? Perhaps that’s the best plan, but then does that mean NOT getting a scorer, or then how do they acquire the much needed scorer? I guess this is why DL gets the big bucks!
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Dominick Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:33 pm
@Shotongoal,
It has to be Free Agency. What ever player becomes available, the Kings will have to sign, then figure out how to make it work. The only way a goalie would be spent is if DL had to try to pry a player away from an organization, and I don’t see that as being the only possible way to upgrade.
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Shakes Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:28 pm
@Shotongoal,
Well it’s a fair question to challenge me back on; I’d probably have to give the cop-out answer that you only even consider trading Bernier for the right player… And in my mind that would be a young forward who has already shown upside (e.g. Hall on the Oilers or something). It can’t be for an old player slightly past his prime
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Maybe he is better than JQ, maybe not. This is LA, a team that has never produced a solid NHL goaltender in 30 years. Now we have potentially two solid home grown NHL goaltenders.
Lets slow down and think about this. JQ who I love and has a heart of a champion has not won a playoff series yet. The real season starts after the regular season ends and they don’t have SO in the playoffs.
JB was so much better the second half, playing sparingly…not too shabby!
Nothing wrong with keeping both and letting them push each other to be better. Everyone wins in that scenario and you can always trade one away when it becomes a little more clear which one has what it takes to win us the SC.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 10:47 am
@Barry’s Mullet, It’s not up to the goaltender to win a playoff series. It’s up to the team to win a playoff series.
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:02 am
@mrbrett7, i love that thing u just said and u r so right on that
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
@mrbrett7, I think thats 90% true. Along the way, you would like your goaltender to steal you a game and I think Quick most definately did that in game 5.
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BobKnob Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@puck73,
see also: Pekka Rinne – Game 2 – WC Semis
Barry's Mullet Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@mrbrett7, True, the goaltender can’t win a series himself and needs help from his team, so certainly this series was not his fault and a huge improvement over last year. However, last year he cost us at least one game in the series with VAN.
He still has to prove to me at least he can win a playoff series and he might have to steal a game or two like he did this playoff season. Plenty of NHL goalies have fantastic regular seasons and disappear once the playoffs start. I don’t think JQ disappeared, I just haven’t seen enough of him in the post season to say he is the ONE. Is he a money goalie, i.e. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, etc. Hopefully next season we will find out.
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Stuart Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 4:23 pm
@Barry’s Mullet, that’s a tough list to crack, but then would you be comfortable saying that JQ is on par with Ryan Miller? Because I would be good with that level of play, with a solid team in front of him, JQ will win more rounds than any goal in Kings history. You heard it here first.
fuzzerson Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:39 pm
@Barry’s Mullet, Let us not forget that we have 3 potential NHLers in the pipeline. Jones, Zatkoff and Berube.
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ok Bernier may not be better than Quick yet but he sure hell improving all he needs is a good beginning and everything will be perfection with Bernier
and i do agree on what people are saying that he needs to work on the shootout
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This whole situation scares me. In San Jose they had to choose between Nabokov and Kiprusoff, they kept Nabokov because he was the “star” goalie. Meanwhile Kiprusoff has been one of the best goalies in the league on a team with no offense and the Sharks have always had a lot of talent but shaky goaltending in the playoffs. I hope TM gives the Kings a real chance to evaluate both of them fairly instead of sticking with “the #1 goalie” just because he was here first.
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puck73 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 11:31 am
@Brian Bush, Having depth should not scare you. Having Fukufuji, Brust, a Washed up Dan Cloutier, and over the hill Sean Burke, and a guy like Jason Labarberra {AHL player of the year) NOW THAT SHOULD SCARE YOU !
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Duckhunter Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm
@puck73, and that wasn’t too long ago…we should all remember that!!! Oh god that was horrible thanks for the image I’m not going to sleep tonight because of that!!! lol….let this play out unless you get a deal that NO ONE would pass up.
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Shotongoal Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@Duckhunter, that’s what I’m saying also, it has to be a blockbuster, like the size of Rick Nash! If not, give it another year and let it work itself out. But sadly enough, as great as this goaltendwer dilemma-situation is, and finally what a great problem to have as a Kings fan, but how do they get that much needed goal scorer?
Brian Bush Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@puck73,
having depth is great TM not giving Bernier a chance to win the starting job and shipping him out because you have a “#1 goalie” is what scares me
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My buddy said it a couple years ago that Quick would go before Bernier. I think he may be right at this point, as it was pointed out by Seitz, Quick may have more trade value right now! What a great problem the Kings finally have in net!
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Duckhunter Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:15 pm
@blckbsct, Just one problem with his trade value…what do we KNOW we have behind him. Bernier right? Do we reasonably know he’ll win 30+ that JQ has won over the last 2 years? We think, but we’ve also seen a shaky goalie at the beginning of the year…which one is real (I think back to Stauber…good back up…not good #1…flaws were seen over the long haul).
Don’t get me wrong Quick’s value is high, but you don’t deal a 30+ winner without being 100% positive about what is behind…and Bernier is close to being a positive (he puts together a solid training camp and 1st part of the season next year…then you can deal Quick and I’m fine with it)
Your right about having a great problem…like to see it be a problem for a little while longer so we can reap the benefits (the scorers we need) to finish a SC team.
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I gave Bernier a “B” for the year. He was a tremendous upgrade over Ersberg and he had a great second half of the season. He didn’t have a great start to the season and he needs to improve on his shootouts. Other than that, Bernier did everything asked of him and more.
I believe the Kings should go at least one more year with both Quick and Bernier. They are both under very good contracts and there is no reason to rush anything. Bernier could end up being a top-5 goalie in the league and there is no way DL will get as much for him right now as what he could get another year in.
If DL was to trade anyone this off-season I would trade Quick. I don’t think he should, but I believe DL would get great value for Quick and I think Bernier still has more upside and I like his game a little more. He’s more of a positional goalie while Quick is more athletic but prone to give up soft goals.
Either way, I would stick to this tandem for one more year, give Jones another year in the AHL and see where you stand at the end of 11-12.
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Duckhunter Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 12:30 pm
@Dave, I don’t think DL will unless he gets an unbelieveable deal.
Agree with your evaluation of Quick and will add another concern of mine…athletic + older = injury prone…shorter career. One aspect that no one is talking about.
As to who I think will eventually be traded…Bernier…reason don’t think you can trade a 30+ winner away…and Bernier has to do something spectacular to beat Quick out…as long as JQ stays healthy and plays like he has the last 2 years…no way Bernier get a shot to beat him out.
With that said…I see both winning Stanley Cups in their careers…and we will be satified with which ever ends up being the #1 goalie in LA…what a situation we have here I hope everyone realizes what we have in these 2 goalies.
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Dave Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 1:32 pm
@Duckhunter, if someone comes and offers a top-6 forward that is signed to a good deal, then i would consider moving Quick. otherwise, stay the course another year.
the one guy that gives me hope for Quick down the road is Tim Thomas. they have similar styles (if you can call it that) and Thomas is in his late 30s and still getting it done.
right now there are more quality goaltenders around than there are starting gigs. that is why i would be OK with trading Quick. Niemi got picked up for next to nothing this year. same with Emery and a few others.
if someone like Philadelphia is willing to move Giroux for Quick i would do it. but i don’t think a deal like that is coming.
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number 6 Reply:
May 2nd, 2011 at 3:15 pm
@Dave,
I see it exactly the way you do…… identical. We could be wrong, but I don’t think so. You’re right, he is so sound positionally and very calming back there.
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JB did exactly what he had to do this year. Learn from experience and get better. You could not ask for anything more. A
And the attitude seems to be completely in the past.
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What a position to be in!!! Two good goalies!!! Perhaps if Murray would play Bernier more, he would be even better. But…we all know how stubborn Murray is..a la Randy Jones and Kevin Westgarth.Don’t trade either one!!!!
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As far a a trade of either Bernier or Quick goes only for an established scorer. The Kings need to get value for value, not just jump at the first offer. And DL needs to be sure that Zatkoff or Jones is ready to step into the back-up role or sign a veteran free agent to a one-year low money deal until Zatkoff or Jones is ready. Just remember trading Quick or Bernier will open another hole
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“The bad: Bernier still needs to prove that he can put together a full season in the NHL.” I think this is an unfair assessment, given that JB has not had a chance to play a full season in the NHL, nor is he likely to as long as JQ is still here. Perhaps it would be better to characterize this as “The Problem”, instead of “The Bad”. I know it’s almost a certainty that a trade of one of the fine young goalies is looming, I would pick Bernier to stay and Quick to go. As a long-suffering Kings fan, I smile as I type this, because it’s such a great problem to have.
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I know this is all fun and all, but really, the marketplace for goalies was set last season, and it was pretty low. Most teams aren’t willing to pay the price that we think Bernier or Quick is worth right now, so I highly doubt that either one will be moved this off-season.
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Rick Nash for Bernier Please!!! Straight up!! LOL
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I’d much rather have Bernier than Quick. I like Quick, but Berny just has a better play style. Quick will make more flashy shoot-out saves, but there’s no shoot-outs in the playoffs!
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It’s so interesting seeing all the Kings fans here say Bernier is better than Quick. But then most of you supported TM deciding that continuing to wheel Quickie into goal during every playoff game was the right move. I can’t believe that Bernier hasn’t gotten even 1 start in the playoffs. The team has more confidence with Bernier in goal. Quick continues to not come through in crunch time. He loses 3 playoff games in OT this year. He loses two games to Ducks when the team needed at least one victory to get a better playoff seeding. These two goalies are equal when it comes down to crunch time. Quick has shown he can’t win the big games. Plane and simply, Bernier is a much bette goaltender.
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YoBro Reply:
May 4th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
@Poorman, These goalies are NOT equal in crunch time. Post AS break, Bernier was what- 9-1 ?? This when the team was scrambling to get in the playoffs. Then we watch Quick NOT get it done for the 2nd year in a row. I, for one, am NOT OK with this. Bye-bye JQ, hello Mr. Nash!
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Poorman Reply:
May 5th, 2011 at 2:56 am
@YoBro, Absolutely agree with you dude. What I meant was that all these people who keep insisting Quick is #1 are ridiculous, because he keeps losing in crunch time, yet TM keeps wheeling him into goal and doesn’t give Bernier a chance. Bernier is every bit as equal or better in crunch time, because Quick hasn’t proven anything.
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Bernier for Zach Parise – NJ needs goalie -
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Only one issue with JB, over time shoot outs. Work on it… You are a better goalie then Quick.
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A solid B. Did what was asked of him and got better as the season wore on. Really couldn’t ask for much more.
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Poorman Reply:
May 5th, 2011 at 2:58 am
@billanthony, a few playoff starts would be nice!
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