In fairness, given that he was a target for criticism after Game 1, Dustin Penner had a better Game 2. In fact, that’s exactly the word used by Terry Murray. Three times, in fact. Penner had two shots on goal and still hasn’t recorded a point in 14 consecutive games, but he appeared to be more involved at both ends. Penner’s challenge, as it has been since he joined the Kings, will be to string together a couple good games in a row. Here’s what Murray said about Penner’s Game 2…
MURRAY: “Better. Better. Better work every shift. He’s the one guy who can battle that big No. 3 [Douglas Murray] one-on-one, which he did. That’s the kind of effort that needs to be there every game. He was skating very well. He had the puck on his stick. We still need to see some results, obviously, because he’s that kind of a player who is capable of doing it, and he can make a difference in a game. But I liked the attitude that he brought.”
Better than a figure skater..
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wes Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:08 pm
@DBking, not so sure about that
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garry Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 9:01 am
@DBking, Not much. He need’s to much proding from the coach to play well.
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In fairness, you can’t put him on the 4th line and then criticize him for not scoring. Kind of like Poni all season.
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Rick Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
@cjms, He gets criticized for lack of effort, not lack of production (although they are obviously related)
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
@cjms, He was put on the 4th line BECAUSE he was not only not producing any results, but because he was barely producting a pulse.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@Rick and mrbrett7, Exactly!
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wes Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
@cjms, 4th line guys are still expected to try, or as mrbrett earlier replied, to have a pulse. And of course a lot more than that is rightly expected of 4th line guys! Poni knocks guys off the puck playing on the 4th line. Put Brown on the 4th line and he’ll still be banging opponents off the puck, winning the puck in scrums all over the ice, drawing penalties, and scoring 20 goals. If Penner hadn’t already cost you a first round pick (future stud) and about $6 million through next season, he wouldn’t even be a 4th line guy right now. He’d be a healthy scratch.
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KC23 Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 2:26 am
@cjms, He has not been on the 4th line for what, 12 straght games in which he hasn’t even gotten a single point … not one single point. So yeah, its plenty fair. Too fair in fact. The guy needs a swift kick in the rear.
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Off topic but bud holloway had a hat trick for the monarchs today. One of the goals was an overtime game winner. Looks like the monarchs are filled with scorers. Nice to see
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Token Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@KH, Yeah, Holloway has done that now third year in a row. Somehow the cowboy gets it going in the playoffs.
Too bad he hasn’t gotten a chance with the big club.
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ocKINGhb Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
@Token, why not give him a chance, is it size?
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@ocKINGhb, He’s been cut pretty early from every training camp, so…it’s one of (or a combination of) defense, skating, size, system…could be a number of things.
I have to admit, he was better.
On an unrelated note, Scuderi and Mitchell deserve our praise for their efforts thus far. They are also doing a thorough job against the Sharks ‘Big Boys’ in all situations…I only put in quotes because they are not often actually that during the postseason.
Go Kings!
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wes Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
@Gislaw, Absolutely agree regarding Scuderi and Mitchell, but Greene has been a D monster too. The kind of player it just can’t be fun to play against.
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KC23 Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 2:28 am
@wes, Agreed. IMHO Greene is playing the best hockey of his career.
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anonandonanon Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 10:51 am
@KC23, There are few players that actually change the way they play.
I could not stand the “Happy Feet” Matt had when he got here. He would leave a Forward or a D Partner hanging out to dry if he felt pressure.
Matt has eliminated this from his game and I am totally impressed. I like all of our stay at homers have given themselves up.
GKG GJG
Mark it down I’m offically on the Penner bandwagon. I feel like most of us have been hard on him. It’s well deserved. He simply has not shown up in many games, but last night he did. I know it takes sometime to adjust to a new team, but know is not the time to adjust, it’s time to win. Penner has big time size and that alone should be enough to get by. We need him to plant himself in front of the net and just stay there. I see him being a big part of this up coming game 3. So if Penner goes down not showing us much then I’ll go down with him. And I quite, “I got your back Penner, prove me and all of Kings Nation that we made the right trade for you”
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@kinginsaltlake, I don’t know about bandwagon, but at least he appeared to put an effort in. I’ll be on his bandwagon if he wins us a couple playoff games.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
@kinginsaltlake, The problem with him is, he absolutely showed up last night…and on Tuesday, he’ll be on vacation again. That is the way he has been his entire career. He needs to show up every night, every game, every period, every shift.
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KC23 Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 2:30 am
@kinginsaltlake, These guys are getting paid millions of dollars to show up every game and play there best. I have no patience for wet nursing someone who is clearly a veteran and getting paid dam well. Dam right I’m hard on him.
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Edward Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 10:37 am
@KC23, I agree! I find it very hard to pony up 30-50 bucks a ticket to see multi-millionaires play lackluster hockey. Minor league hockey, I pay $10 a ticket to see guys that give a better effort and a more entertaining game. At least in the minors, they still have hitting (NHL is trying to take the hitting aspect out of the game, notice all the suspensions lately for hits that would have been policed by the players and not by the league, unless someone got decapitated by a stick or a boarding incident, some 10-20 years ago).
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I can tell by his body language, he does’t care
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Meh. Williams at 80% or whatever is playing 10 times better. Hope they trade this guy for a good player this off season.
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I’m pretty sure Penner is kinda out of shape (for a professional hockey player).
Hit that Manhattan Beach sand dune over the summer man.
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Edward Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 10:39 am
@BobKnob, Nah, Penner will be released once the season is over. He has a reputation of being lazy most of the time and I doubt other NHL clubs will be interested except celler dwellers such as Florida, Colorado, etc. Hey, maybe we can ship him back to the Oilers for just a few dollars!
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Much better EFFORT! Which is the bottom line! He has too much skill not to succeed, as long as he brings it every night! Maybe once he gets real comfortable in the room, he will want to bleed for this group! The rest is adjustment! Hope he grows quickly into this team though. Imagine if he gets it going offensively. It could be key to replacing Kopi’s loss offensively (*you dont replace the package), which is this team’s #1 need. With our D and goalies, I would feel much better about our chances this year!
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Hope penner continues to work on how much he cares about winning hockey games and I’ll leave it at that.
Have to say that if the kings played consistently they way they did last night, not even vancouver could stop this team. And without Stoll that was impressive. INever expected that and I would way rather be a fan of a regular season team which has ups and downs but is a stellar playoff team any day. Keep playing like this and lord stanley may have something shiny on ice waiting at the end of a red carpet.
As it stands TM is forgiven (not that he cares) for the 2 straight loss to the ducks because of last nights game. So proud of this team right now. That was incredible. How ever it goes I’m good with it and saw the magic last night first hand.
Knock on wood..
–GKG–
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ocKINGhb Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
@jess, Lets see how they do against a SJ team who needs to win game 3, if we produce and play like we did i agree no one in the league will take 4 games from us, I am holding my tongue till after game 3 to see if these guys can do it every night. Last year Kings lose in OT, win game 2 and 3 then lose next 3. I need to see focus and maturity this year. I know they are capable would like to see 3-1 back in SJ.
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jess Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
@ocKINGhb, very very very very well said, and my attitude and expectations towards the affair shall follow your example;)
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Did every one forget why we got penner? to play along side kopitar. I think him starting to adjust now is as good as anytime maybe even better! He was really molving last night! Watch out for game 3! GoKingsGo!
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
@kingzfn1, There are 19 other players in the lineup who are putting forth the effort without Kopitar in the lineup.
Just because someone isn’t in the lineup does NOT mean you don’t give every ounce of effort, no matter what.
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tuan jim Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 12:09 am
@mrbrett7,
It’s not the lack of effort that triggers criticism. It’s the mis-direction of the effort, the failure to make that effort meaningful.
I saw some hard-working Sharks in last night’s game. But all their sweat went sideways, so to speak. And their coach badmouthed them for it.
Does anyone recall how often TM criticized Kopi a couple of years ago for not learning to play like a “complete” hockey player? It took Kopi a helluva lot longer to get his game going than it’s taking Penner. Now Kopi is among the league’s elite — on both sides of the puck. But it took a whole season to get him there. DP has had to re-learn HOW to play hockey while losing the linemates he was learning to play WITH.
It’s not a matter of laziness. It’s a matter of training to a point where what you do is as close to reflex action as possible. The rest of the team has been playing the system so long it’s second nature to them. DP will master it. But it takes time. That’s-the-way-things-are! Give the guy a break.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 7:20 am
@tuan jim, Actually…yes, it is a matter of laziness. It was a matter of not trying.
Kopitar, while being criticized, still went out every game, and tried his best. Gave everything he had. He was also in his 3rd year in the NHL at 22 years old…a kid.
Penner on the other hand, simply wasn’t. Now in his 7th year in the NHL, at 27 years old, floats, doesn’t skate hard every shift, and basically does not try. It’s painfully obvious.
He did it while he was in Anaheim. He did it while he was in Edmonton…and now he is doing it here.
If he has to learn how to PLAY HARD by now, he will never learn. I’m fine with him having to learn how to do things the right way, but effort, CONSISTENT effort? No…that isn’t something you “learn”. That’s something you simply either do, or don’t do.
Putting forth effort has NOTHING to do with who your linemates are, who your teammates are, period. Your being paid quite a bit of money…the least you can do is go out there and try.
tuan jim Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
@mrbrett7,
I don’t disagree with your philosophy of effort. It’s your observations — and the conclusions you draw from them — that I find faulty.
Penner’s oafish size and generally slow, loping style often produce the impression that he’s not putting out his best effort. Since his scoring stats have not contradicted that impression within the past few weeks’ worth of games, you naturally deduce that he’s been taking the night off.
I disagree with that assessment. EVERY player has his scoreless stretches — look at Brown this season, at Smyth, at Poni, at Zeus, each of whom was the target for abusive criticism of his “effort” until it became clear that the criticism was without foundation. And each was further criticized for not being “consistent” in his play. DP’s circumstances are not dissimilar to these other players. No one wants him to score and dominate more than he does himself.
He was criticized by fans in Anaheim and criticized by fans in Edmonton and is now being criticized by fans in L.A. Yet the GMs for these teams either paid top dollar for him or bemoaned losing him. I suppose that only proves that Burke or Tambellini or Lombardi should bone up on the observations posted on this blog site. Clearly they don’t know as much about hockey as the fans do.
So the mere presence of criticism — even criticism that parrots your own — is not convincing. Penner was a good pick-up at the trade deadline. Your observation that he does not skate hard may have some truth to it, but he wasn’t brought here for his skating. On the other hand, your claim that he does not try is not supported by what I see.
Incidentally, Kopi’s “effort” — during that period when he struggling to master what TM considers the elements of a “complete” hockey player — was criticized at the time by the same fans who now fall all over themselves in their praise of him. To those fans he wasn’t trying his best or giving everything he had. They griped that he was a dud who had talent but was too lazy to use it. Moreover, during that time while he was learning, TM often had occasion to challenge his “compete level” — and to do so publicly.
DP is a new King. It would be nice for him to slide into his role like a shelled oyster slipping down your gullet. But that doesn’t always happen as quickly as we’d like — and it’s not happening as quickly as your eagerness to judge him adversely.
rick Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 8:26 am
@mrbrett7: You nailed it.
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Off topic but why didnt demers get suspended for his flying charge on Smyth? i am sure ralpie torres will get something for his hit on seabrook tonight!
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KC23 Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 2:35 am
@kingzfn1, Because Dean Lombarti beat out Mike Murphy for the King’s GM/Present job. So every chance Murphy gets to stick to the Kings he takes it. This is just another in a long line of examples of how Murphy has a major conflict of interest working in Toronto making decisions that involve the Kings.
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look alikes Penner and Vince Gill…..
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Penner is mightier.
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Give Mr. Penner time and he will find his groove. My opinion is, unless you have been in his skates, you have no right to be critical of his play. As a young kid I moved around a lot, and it’s not always easy slipping right into a new environment when you’re the new guy. As long as he is a King, and as long as I am a Kings fan, he needs and deserves our support 100%.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
@InTheCrease, I don’t care if he scores (I would like it). That is NOT the issue. He has shown no effort. THAT is the issue.
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The Penner Pickle:
_Try_ to understand this. Knowledgeable observers are not criticizing Dustin Penner for not ‘producing results’ (everyone not named Gretzky has experienced extended periods of being ‘snake-bit’), the problem has been that Penner has rarely appeared to be trying to do the kinds of things that eventually do produce results. That reaches far, far deeper than the surface fact of an 18 game scoring draught. If you can’t understand the difference, there’s no need to read any further.
I’ve followed this team since Jack Kent Cook brought this guy named Rogie Vachon to his Fabulous Forum. But a child-like groupie I am not. Thinking is more worthwhile. Look groupies, Murray has no real choice but to be something of a Penner chearleader, it’s his job. Don’t read things into that that aren’t there. The club has made a serious commitment to Penner (minus a first round pick– a likely future stud– and about 6 million dollars through next season).
The uncritical thinking that brews and bubbles constantly in these threads is an insight into human . . . I’d like to say feeblemindedness, but perhaps that’s not nice (even if it may be true). It is Murray’s JOB as motivator to wear the Penner Fan Club Hat whenever possible, but that doesn’t mean a small glimmer of improvement in Penner’s effort in period 1 of game 2 was a bright and cloud-parting arrival of Dustin Penner as a genuine and reliable contributor to this team’s overall fortunes. Or that he’ll even try to be. After all, by period 3, Penner was the same absentee he’s been for weeks.
Sure, the Kings and their fans (I’ll include myself) want to see some promise and eventually production from Penner. But so long as that’s all we’ve actually got— wanting (wishful thinking, in many apparent cases)—that’s ALL we’ve got. It’s not rocket science.
There’s this interesting thing call Reality . . .
In what, for most ‘top six’ forwards in this league, might have been a breakaway opportunity, Dustin Penner awkwardly tries to carry the puck into the offensive zone in the 3rd period Saturday night. Sharks color analyst Drew Remenda wryly observes: “What does this look like here? It looks like you’re skating your goaltender.”
And he was exactly right. That, my friends, is this thing called Reality.
Here’s a little more of that thing called Reality: Penner had some nice success early in his NHL career (perhaps that success drained him of “hunger”?), and it seems like it SHOULD be reasonable to expect him to contribute like the “top 2” left winger he is considered to be . . . but Edmonton was pretty much ecstatic to get prospects for Penner the Absentee. (It just feels like there _could_ be some of that ‘ol Reality there).
Prove your critics wrong, Dustin Penner. Prove me wrong Dustin Penner. Please. That could be a lot of fun. If you don’t, of course, Dean Lombardi will be shining you up, sliding under his own Penner Fan Club Hat, and shopping you around for someone who will contribute (more of that Reality there).
The Kings are competing without him, no doubt, but the Penner of your dreams would be very welcome. Just no sign yet of said Penner of your dreams.
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CB14 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
@wes, Great Points. I think he’s going to play great next year, it is after all his contract year. I just hope DL doesn’t give him a huge long term contract after that contract year. A 2 year deal, ok, but not a 5-6 year deal like he got from Edmonton after 1 good season.
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Drink Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
@wes, the reality is penner has had more poor efforts than good efforts and everyone has acknowledged this. this fact is not a hard hitting, deep insight. he played well on Saturday and as most fans do, people want to see players build on their successes and improve when they falter.
lengthy discussions based in negativity (filled with comments in parentheses) do no more than the everyday ten word sky is falling post and are just as useful.
I hope to see the kings play just as well if not better on tuesday and I appreciate your point of viewe
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tornado12 Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
@Drink, +1
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luthco1 Reply:
April 18th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@tornado12, He’s too fat, needs to lose weight and muscle up, i watched the video of them coming off the bus and this huge dude walked by i had to watch it another time to figure out is was DP, now i know why it looks like he’s barely skating
kingfish Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 10:51 pm
@wes,
Good point about early success. i think once guys win the big silver trophy they’ve seen the top of the mountain and loose some of the hunger.
If you look at Penners stats, his play with anaheim could be attributed to playing with good line mates. In Edmonton, he did have a few descent years but on terrible teams with no expectations the last 2 years. Now he comes here and is expected to produce but he’s clearly out of shape physically and and his lack of hunger is exposed. Its actually sickening to see a guy his size who could dominate a game if he wanted to or at least have a huge impact in just about every situation, slowly coast back to the bench at the end of a shift. His skating if you wanna call it that is ridiculous for a guy making 4 mil a year. I’ve heard some say that he just appears to be skating slow like mahovlich but its not an illusion, penner is slow. he takes a few strides and coasts. Actually I dont care how fast he skates as long as hes scoring goals but in this NHL coasting isnt gonna get you into many scoring positions, the game is just too fast.
So its too bad, he could be a dominate player, he can skate fast when he wants too, he can knock guys off the puck, he can bolt himself in front of the net and bang in goals, but he doesnt try. And if getting a gig in LA, where he has a house, where his wife can be based for her career, if thats not motivation enough to want to stick around and be a player that the Kings wanna resign then I dont know what is. Hes gonna find himself in Columbus next year. I think everybody has seen enough. It was a good trade on paper and Lombardi did the right thing but hes gotta go in the off season.
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tuan jim Reply:
April 17th, 2011 at 11:45 pm
@wes,
Penner’s game has never been based on speed. He must rely on being where he can RECEIVE the puck and get his shot off. While he was on a line with Kopi and JW that’s precisely what he did. And he used his size in front of the net to screen the shots of others.
But without those linemates he’s now obliged to change his game to make it cohere with a defensive philosophy he hasn’t had to think about for most of his career. If he’s not absorbing the “system” as fast as we or TM want him to, that doesn’t mean he’s a lost cause or unable to produce. How many games has Penner played with the Kings? Do any of you remember how long it took Kopi — a whole season, just about — to grasp the style of play that Murray insisted he learn.
Yes, Penner’s slow. Is that something no one knew in advance? Give him a chance. The deal to get him was good when it was made and it’s good now.
The posters on this site — for all their professed love of the Kings — can’t pass up a chance to badmouth anyone who’s not named Star-of-the-Game. How many of the people here screamed the sky was falling when Murray declared Quicker, and not Bernier, the team’s number one goalie? How many were zealous to toss Dewey out with the char when his season’s first-half numbers were less than expected? How often has TM been denounced for juggling lines and D-pairings?
DP cost plenty. I think he’ll prove to be worth it. And he is, despite all the fussing, the best “fit” we could get.
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At least you noticed Penner was in the game. That is a huge improvement. Baby steps. Baby steps.
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There was one Penner play, that really stands out to me. He was skating through the corner, with the puck, and effortlessly threw the Shark’s D-man to the ice with his right arm. The Shark player looked like a rag doll.
That’s what I hope to see more of from Dustin.
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Welcome to the tag cloud DP…
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@Sparman, caught that too. It’s an indication of what he can bring to a shift. adjustments to new linemates/teammates isn’t automatic, especially on a team that relies so heavily on a particular system. What we see as a lack of effort may also be a lack of familiarity and resulting hesitation. Not being in his head, I’m not willing to analyze what he does and why. All I know is that there was an aggressiveness to his shifts the other night and that caused problems for the Sharks. Let’s hope he continues to bring that game at Staples.
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So penner played better in game 2 now we have a 50-50 shot of him showing up to play in game 3…just his MO. Someone wake this guy up…
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