The big question for tomorrow might be whether Kings center Jarret Stoll faces any supplemental discipline for his first-period hit on San Jose’s Ian White. Stoll checked White into the end boards, and White’s head hit the glass and he crumbled to the ice. White got up, but looked very shaky skating to the bench and didn’t return to the game. Stoll was not penalized on the play, but the Sharks were immediately upset, and it’s likely that the league office will be looking at the hit. The reaction from the Sharks’ locker room, not surprisingly, was not positive. Dan Boyle talked about the hit…
BOYLE: “I don’t like it. I didn’t like it the first time around and I don’t like it on the replay.”
(on the possibility of the league looking at the hit…) “They should. I don’t know that Stoll is that kind of a guy but that’s exactly what we’re talking about and trying to eliminate (from the game). The guy’s head is this far from the boards and you drive your forearm and elbow in there? That’s what they’re trying to get rid of. I didn’t like it.’’
Here were the thoughts of Kings coach Terry Murray and Sharks coach Todd McLellan…
MURRAY: “I looked at it from the high end-zone camera, which is the one I have on my computer. I don’t see much there. I don’t have different angles. The angle that I have is from high. It’s from the other side from where he hit him, so I don’t get a good look at it. So, I don’t know. I don’t have any other opinion. Nothing was called. There was a player that was taken out of the game because of that hit, but I don’t have any of the details on the hit, with a good TV replay look, to know exactly what it was.”
MCLELLAN: “We saw a really good angle. The good news for us is that the league is looking at these type of things, they take it very seriously. And it will be dealt with. The bad news is we lost a very good defenseman that we count on. The rest of it is unfortunate because Jarret Stoll is a hell of a player. He ended up taking 20-25 faceoffs tonight and played 23 minutes. And we had to play with five defensemen. It’s disappointing that it was missed on the ice, but it’s in somebody else’s hands and we know it’s a serious thing the league is looking at.”
(on White’s status…)
MCLELLAN: “`We’ll see how he is in the morning. He’s not feeling real good.”
Finally, for those who might have missed it a couple posts earlier, here is Stoll’s reaction to the hit…
STOLL: “He was a little low there. I don’t know what he was doing, if he was reaching for a puck or what. He was right against the boards, too, and he was a little low. I just finished my check on him, and it ended up pretty bad for him. I hope he’s all right. You hate to see a guy get hurt, regular season or playoffs. I definitely wasn’t trying to hurt him.”
(on whether he’s worried about a suspension…)
STOLL: “I have no idea. I don’t now. There wasn’t a penalty on the call, so I’m not expecting anything.”
His forearm was driven into his back not his head, White leaned down a little bit which cause the collision but bottom line this was not a penalty
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CanadianKing Reply:
April 14th, 2011 at 11:54 pm
@David, Doesn’t even have to be a hit to the head for a suspension. Driving a defenseless player into the boards, resulting in injury is now punishable..
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Stuart Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:02 am
@CanadianKing, you don’t need to make fun of White’s defensive skills…
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Osaka Reply:
April 14th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
@David, The forearm was to go to White’s back as to not drive him into the glass, White bent down at the wrong time. If Stoll leads with the shoulder it is a much harder hit. In the d-zone it is common to lead with the forearm when checking into the boards as to not take yourself out of the play. The play is actually a soft hit.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 12:07 am
@David, Looked to me like simple boarding penalty that ended ugly by chance. Minor penalty should have been called, but that’s it.
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Minnesota Kings Fan Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:59 am
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
You’re absolutely right.
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gralx Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 9:11 am
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, Everyone keeps saying boarding call should have been called. I just don’t see it. No charge, didn’t leave feet and coasted in. Elbows down, forearm into back. White had like 30 seconds to play the thing alone along the boards. (ok, not 30 seconds) The hit wasn’t even that violent. White dropped head at last second. Stoll cannot control what White does on the play. What is Stoll supposed to do? Wait until White decides to actually play the puck? If this was baseball, they would be saying that they needed to bring the tee out for him to hit off of. I call NoCal 5 minutes for whining.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
@gralx, No charge is why it’s boarding and not charging. The fact that it wasn’t a hard hit and that Stoll looked totally surprised the guy was dazed means it clearly wasn’t dirty. It was something that happens in hockey games, and numbnuts should have kept his head up.
Could go either way, kinda like this series!
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so tiered of this maddness nobody called or issued anything when kings got hurt like smith going to the locker romm during anihiem game get over you darn babies
its hockey play the game !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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KingsFansAreClassy Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 12:34 am
@KingsFan1974, That was the Anaheim game. Sounds like you’re upset that someone from the Schmucks wasn’t called for a penalty on Smyth, so you can understand that the Shark’s fans are upset that there was no call on Stoll. It’s not being “a darn baby” to want a penalty on an illegal hit, even if it was by accident. Just like unintentional high sticking draws a penalty, so does a bad hit.
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:48 am
@KingsFansAreClassy, What about the no call when the shark player charged at Smyth leaving his feet and throwing an elbow? its called playoff Hockey keep your head up or pay the price and there is no crying in hockey.
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The Kings can’t afford to lose Stoll…really hope nothing comes of the review.
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This could be what hurts us the most. Just like sharks coach said, stoll played 23 minutes and won around 25 faceoffs. We definately can’t afford to lose stoll. Personally I don’t like the hit. It was a scary hit. Hopefully if anything its a one game suspension. Overall great game. If only richie buried that chance in OT. GO KINGS
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brian spain Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 9:58 am
@OC Hip Check, He took 25 face offs. He maybe won ten
n. The sharks dominated in the face off circle. What the heck was Penner doing on the first goal talking to the fans in the first row 80 feet from his man.
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Unfortunately I wouldn’t be surprised if the league ruled against the Kings again. I also don’t expect that they will suspend Demers for the forearm hit to Ryan Smith’s face when he launched himself off the ice (charging) to make the illegal hit which was also not called. If they suspend for one they should suspend for the other. Just because Smith didn’t hit the dasher and get hurt worse doesn’t change the type of hit it was. What you want to bet the Kings get the short end yet again?
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schwolf Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 12:15 am
@just my opinion,
couldnt agree more.
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KingsFansAreClassy Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 12:38 am
@just my opinion, I didn’t see the Demer’s hit that you’re talking about, I’ll have to look for it when I rewatch the game. What period was it in?
In my opinion, if Stoll gets suspended it’s not because “the Kings will be getting the short end yet again”, it’s because it was an obvious illegal hit.
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Chip Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 1:15 am
@KingsFansAreClassy,
Was that period 2? Think so. Demer showed some pretty good leaping ability for a hockey player. And high fists to the face.
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LittleRhody Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 1:33 am
@Chip, 16:24 of the 3rd
terry Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:13 am
@just my opinion, Stoll you know as well as me wasn’t intentionally trying to hurt the guy and it’s unfortunate that he did. However, Demer without doubt was trying to hurt Smyth and of course no reveiw on that at all (King’s rule 87 by NHL which says any close call that goes under reveiw for Kings will be nullified against the Kings). If they do suspend Stoll Lombardi may be forced to call up Schenn as Penner is doing absolutely nothing.
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a tale of two coaches perspectives…:
terry murray – somewhat being coy, as he clearly doesn’t want to lose another center – a position already favoring san jose…
todd mclellan – lobbying for his player and making sure the league knows the impact of playing shorthanded on defense – a position already favoring the kings…
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 7:55 am
@variable, Exactly. I could see a supsension coming because of it, but this goes back to what I have been saying all year. There is just as much responsibility on the player being hit to protect himself. Although with as many times as Versus showed that replay, I’m not sure he could have.
Did Stoll target the head? I don’t think he did. Was it a textbook boarding penalty? Absolutely it was, and probably should have resulted in a 5 minute penalty for Stoll.
Just my opinion.
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Unreal. A hit to the head and from behind and you all think its clean. Why are all the analysts without team loyalties saying it’s bad? He will get two games and should get 3 if Torres is a benchmark.
The refs let this game get out of hand by not caaling all the garbage on both sides. Toronto will talk to both teams and some early calls on Saturday will back the teams off and turn this back into hockey. In a clean game the kings need still but he will be in the skybox until game 4.
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BobKnob Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 1:10 am
@just your opinion,
I don’t think Torres deserved 3 but whatever. I’m almost positive Stoll will be suspended for 1-3 games, unless the league way overreacts (again?).
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hockey junkie Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 1:13 am
@just your opinion,
Because you are now an expert? Respectively disagree with your opinion. Let them play hockey …players know the danger and should also protect themselves. Stoll wasn’t doing anything he doesn’t normally do, not a dirty player at all.
Go Kings
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rick Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 7:59 am
@hockey junkie, He’s not a dirty player, but that was a dirty play. I don’t want to see him suspended, but if I am looking at that play without my Kings glasses on, he deserves it.
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hockey junkie Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 10:59 am
@rick,
again respectively disagree
mrbrett7 Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 7:57 am
@just your opinion, Probably because he didn’t target the head.
Stoll is 6′…White is 6’2″. It’s physically impossible to target the head of a taller player without going UP. White was leaning down.
A boarding penalty? Yes.
A boarding penalty that should have resulted in a game misconduct? I think so.
Is there responsibility on White to protect himself just like every other player in the NHL? Yes…and I’m a bit tired of the argument that there isn’t. Hockey is a physical game and guys will get hurt.
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gralx Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 9:41 am
@just your opinion, just like they talked to both the Kings and the Canucks last year and called the games tighter because of cheap shots not penalized early in the series last year, correct? Oh, right, that didn’t happen….
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If Stoll receives a suspension, or even a multiple game suspension, what will that do to Lombardi’s plans of shielding Schenn in the AHL? In my opinion, you can’t lose your two top 6 centers and expect to just replace them with your bottom 6, Schenn needs to be looked at as a serious option at that point.
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hes going to get suspended, sorry but thats the truth.. schenn can come up now for a game
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TM is probably playing it coy. If he wanted he could have the FSW footage delivered on DVD tomorrow morning handed to him directly from Heidi Androl’s bra.
If I had to call it I’d say he knows it was a bad hit and can’t really say otherwise so he is denying knowing one way or the other. He obviously isn’t going to speak out against Stoll especially with suspension on the table.
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Poorman Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 4:39 am
@Skooma, Forgetting your analysis, I’d like to congratulate you on some great investigative reporting. I didn’t know that DVD’s were handed directly from Heidi Androl’s bra. That’s sweet. How do I order my DVD?
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Having watched the replays from various angles, it’s certainly a blindside hit. IMO Stoll’s hand got up into White’s shoulder area, but there was no elbow and probably very little forearm. It definitely looked like White leaned down for the puck at the last second which contributed to his head ultimately being driven into the boards. The problem is, if you don’t judge the action on the result, the punishment that probably best fits this crime (a boarding call) wasn’t called on the ice. This puts the NHL in the unenviable position of having to doll out supplemental discipline to make up for the non-call on the ice. One game wouldn’t be a surprise, anything more would be excessive.
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Can we just go by this?
http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/11/nhl-suspensions.html
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While I wish it weren’t so and do believe that it was accidental, I think that the hit is illegal/suspendable.
However, if any suspension is handed down, Demers(sp?) from SJ better get the same, if not more for the hit on Smyth, which was 100% intentional and with intent to injure.
For someone who asked above, it occurs at 16:24 in the #rd.
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Ribeiro was not even fined for the elbow to Handzus head. I call BS if Stoll is is suspended
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Phone hearing for Stoll by NHL later today as just tweeted by Nick Kypreos
Hopefully, just a fine…
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I wonder if Boyle “liked” the hit Demers put on Smyth?
This is crazy, although I am not sure that Stoll is out of the woods. Stoll made a hit that we see every game and all game. White lowered himself just as the hit was taking place. Stoll has no history of this and should not face punishment, although whatever the league does will never surprise me. Face it, if Pronger made that same hit it would not even be questioned.
Demers hit was a textbook example of a guy leaving his feet to make a hit. He clearly went after Smyth and made contact with Smyth’s head. That is an absolute punishable hit, but I doubt it will even be looked at.
As for the game, the Kings played well and had their chances to win. I’ll take that performance all series long and I would like our chances. However, someone in this organization needs to have a sit-down with Doughty. His game last night was a nightmare. Just horrible. How about being a steady and solid player and forgeting about spending all night trying for the highlight reel plays? His play has been erratic, seldom even average, and is committing too many turnovers nightly. His play is just not in tune with the style we need to play and I am tired of him getting a pass. What is wrong with demanding some accountability from him, when it is used commonly with other players? I loved the way he played the last 2 years, but this year from start to finish his play has been way below what it should be. Forget the fancy stuff and just play a steady and error-free game…isn’t that what the Kings system demands?
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Stuart Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:08 am
@scvking, “Demers hit was a textbook example of a guy leaving his feet to make a hit. He clearly went after Smyth and made contact with Smyth’s head. That is an absolute punishable hit, but I doubt it will even be looked at.”
Can’t the Kings send tapes to Toronto??? THEY’D BETTER!!! Had Smyth gone down with any type of injury all hell would’ve broke loose!!! In my living room for sure too!
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scvking Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:37 am
@Stuart,
You are correct. However, I honestly do not think that the Kings will go begging for action on that, and my feeling is that it will be overlooked as the Sharks campaign for punishment for Stoll.
One additional comment about Boyle statements…”I don’t know that Stoll is that kind of guy”…perhaps this is a problem with semantics, but I think we all know what kind of guy Stoll is on the ice. He is a hard and clean player, and to make a statment that leaves Stoll’s character in question troubles me. Stoll has a proven track record regarding on ice behavior.
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What makes the Stoll hit dirty…..but no discussion on Demers flying elbow to Smyths head?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dz_16c7Tvw
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Minnesota Kings Fan Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 9:11 am
@hipcheck,
Wow. We are forced to watch Vs. out here which pulled the Sharks coverage to force down the throats of the hockey nation, and I’ll tell you right now the Sharks’ broadcasters said ZERO about that hit, except maybe to say it was “good” or something like that – I’ll have to check. They certainly did not show it to their fans and criticize their own player. It’s infuriating that they were so willing to take Stoll to task and (almost certainly) gave Demers a pass on that garbage hit.
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brian spain Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 10:12 am
@Minnesota Kings Fan, The Sharks announcers are just the Like the Ducks announcers, they are complete homers. The kings announcers are Reporters they report whet they see. Bob Miller and fox call it like they see it. My friends in Orange County ask me why I am not a Ducks fan, two reasons, Kings fan since 1988. two I can’t stand to listen to there announcers whine about every freaking call. There fans are the same way. They watch the game with there heart not there EYES.
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What was idiotic is that the Sharks put Eager on the ice after the hit and we leave our enforcer on the bench, letting a slightly undersized, top 3 line forward (Clifford) take the battle. That is exactly the reason Westgarth is dressed and after 40 years in hockey Murray knew what was coming, yet let Clifford go. Clifford can handle himself, but should not have had to in that situation. As I said, idiotic coaching move.
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jonsey Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:17 am
@Pond Hockey,
You think that would have led to the Sharks losing heart. It always does when we lose a player in a game. Especially at home.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:18 am
@Pond Hockey, You know Eager is smaller than Clifford, right?
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Pond Hockey Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:36 am
@mrbrett7, Eager listed at 6’2, 230 … Clifford at 6’1, 200 … from these listings, just looking at them or their reputations as heavyweight/welterweight, Eager is a handful for Clifford. Which wasn’t my point anyhow (I said Clifford can handle himself), it was that this was Westgarth’s role AND I like Clifford playing a regular shift (something the Sharks don’t care if Eager does).
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terry Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:45 am
@Pond Hockey, You saw after that fight how upset the Kings bench was especially Westgarth. If you go to hocketfights.com and watch it again, Eager threw a dirty elbow at Clifford’s head to begin that scrum
terry Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:47 am
@Pond Hockey, http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/104654- check it outand you will clearly see the elbow
Pond Hockey Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 10:03 am
@Pond Hockey, My point is Westgarth should have been out there with Eager because Eager was going to start a fight at the first faceoff after Stoll’s hit. Eager’s elbow came during a fight that was going to happen. Yes, the Kings bench was yelling at Eager for that as they should … they couldn’t exactly turn around and yell at their coach for not having our enforcer on the ice at the exact moment his role on the team was needed.
Dear Mr. Boyle,
I can tell you from personal experience that Stoll IS “that type of player”.
Sincerely,
Chris Pronger
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jonsey Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:19 am
@BringBackTheShieldJersey,
Don’t be a beezey Pronger. Stoll is a small guy, what are you doing that low if not bowing to his incredible faceoff skills.
That’s two strikes. One more and we can say he IS that kind of player. Right now though? No. Just unfortunate.
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Sharks fan here. Just came by to see that the LA side of things are. I saw the Demers flying elbow and agree that was dirty too. I love how the ref is just sitting there asking himself if you are allowed to jump on the chest of another player, “Dude, Blow the Whistle!” I would say based on the Heatley suspension, I would be okay with Demers getting two games for that which I think is 1 game in play-off ratio (divide by 3 round up? isn’t that the rule). That said, Stoll’s hit is a suspension too. How long? I would say the same, 2-4 games normally so 1 game now.
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jonsey Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:20 am
@Jon, Well, we’ll call it a wash. You keep Demers and we keep Stoll? Eh? Eh?
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:23 am
@Jon, Hey Jon…
My opinion. The refs blew it big time. But, is it suspendable? Not in my opinion. Not based on the criteria, because he didn’t target the head. It’s unfortuante that White got hurt, but the boards did the damage to his head. Of course, you can see on the replay that Stoll looked right at White after he hit him and had a look on his face like, awe crap…
So, my opinion…should have absolutely have been a 5 minute major for boarding. But based on the criterea for suspensions…I don’t think they can. He didn’t target the head.
As for Demer’s hit, I don’t see a suspension coming there either, as I don’t think he targeted the head. He certainly HIT the head, but he wasn’t targeting the head. His elbow road up Smyths chest into his head. It’s an incredibly dumb play and I suspect he may get a talking to by the league, but no more. His punishment on the ice, behind the play will be worse…hockey justice. Just like Stoll’s will be.
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Stuart Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:36 am
@mrbrett7, Idk, when you leave your feet, unless you’re hitting Chara, you’re going for the neck and above. And he got about a foot off the ice in his vertical, hard to argue that he wasn’t targeting RS high. How you can say he certainly hit the head but didn’t target it when he left his feet so blatantly is beyond me… Supplementary discipline should be given here.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:48 am
@Stuart, Because I’ve done it myself.
I’ve hit guys in similar fashion (in my younger days…I’d die now). I had no interest and I was not even thinking of hitting them in the head. I did leave my feet, however, my elbow hit them right in the chest, and my forearm (on the follow through for the hit), rode right up the jersey and nailed them right in the face.
Especially with how the jersey’s are today, and how tight they are, I can see how easy it is to happen.
Stuart Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:56 am
@mrbrett7, so by admitting that you’ve done it yourself, maybe the first time you didn’t realize you were going to ride up, but after you saw the pattern, I leave my feet aiming for the chest, my forearm rides up the jersey and smack in the head, you must’ve known the 4-on time you did it that it would end up being a hit to the hit when all was said and done and the dust settled. And everytime you skated away saying oh that was odd, just like last time, I didn’t mean to hit his head but it seemed to keep working out that way. I’ll forgive the very first one, but I’m sure that wasn’t Demers first run… It doesn’t matter where the contact started or was intended, it’s gotta be seen as to where the hit is realized and that was high on RS and probably high on the scrubs you hit, too…
Just sayin.
brian spain Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@Jon, Jon, THE BEAT LA chant is lame, and a basketball thing, come on now. Jon what do you think of the way your announcers called the hit on white, I think they made it sound like Stoll shot white in the head.
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Jon Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 10:49 am
@brian spain, Umm, yeah, I am not a big fan of the BEAT LA chant. I prefer the ole classic of “Let’s Go Sharks” but really most chants done by 17000+ (okay 14000+ if you correct for out of towners) are lame. Not really sure where that came from since I didn’t bring it up.
Drew and Randy are homers; anyone who has watched more than two games on TV knows it. The initial call is not that bad, they didn’t make much of it off the bat. Then as they talk they start playing it up a bit, they always do that. We all know that. Half the time they get all fired up about a terrible call against the sharks, I watch the reply on mute and think Yep, that’s a penalty. Lots of fans at the tank are like that too. They tend to call BS on legit penalties. I have never watched a game anywhere else, but I imagine the same can be said in most stadiums.
Link to the video with Randy and Drew calling it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJRqLHYHYuA
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Yes the Demers thing was a missed charge.
However as supplemental discipline goes, we should all know by now that it is not dependent on the act, but the result.
That is how this league sees it, whether right or wrong.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:49 am
@Reason, Which is incredibly stupid.
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Stuart Reply:
April 15th, 2011 at 8:57 am
@Reason, exactly, the intention is hard to discern, but the result is wide out in the open for everyone not wearing stripes to see.
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Reading all the comments and opinions on the Stoll hit tells me one thing……five years from now the NHL will turn into a non-contact league. Honest. Since the GM meetings, the league decided to crack down on hits to the head, boarding calls, etc. etc. Right after, a player gets suspended for the balance of the season and first round of playoffs, a hit by Charra on a Montreal player into the turnbuckle along the glass (momentum of check caused this, I feel)and there was no suspension…..a light boarding call got an Islander suspended 10 games only because he just got off a lengthy suspension for being a goon in a game against Pittsburgh…….on and on……knowing the league, they will take the hitting out of the game because it just disrupts their day at NHL headquarter.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!! Hockey is a collision sport played by tough, real men. It has always been and always will. Take the hitting out and I will never tune in to an NHL game again. Rather watch the Quebec Senior league games.
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