This is quite a road trip for Kings rookie defenseman Alec Martinez. It started in Detroit, roughly 25 miles from Martinez’s hometown of Rochester Hills, Mich. Now it’s Columbus, which is approximately two hours from where he attended college (Miami University of Ohio). Next, it’s Dallas, where his parents currently live. Finally, it’s Nashville, where Martinez’s girlfriend works and studies as part of a nursing program. “Expensive trip,” Martinez said with a smile, in reference to the number of tickets he will have to buy. So far, so good. The Kings got the win in Detroit, and Martinez drew some big praise from Terry Murray.
MURRAY: “Outstanding game. Not just the power play. He played great the whole game, under pressure with composure, making plays, skating, carrying the puck. You try to project on players, and you watch this kid when he’s doing the right things and the good things, and you try to say, `OK, this can be a consistent part of his game in the future,’ he’s a good player. To me, when you have a player like this, it all comes down to the player making up his mind that he’s going to go get the job done. That’s it. It’s not about Xs and Os. It’s you, as a player, at sometime in your career — whether it’s in junior or wherever it’s going to be — you have to say to yourself, `I’m going to do it. It’s my time. I’m stepping up to the plate and I’m taking on all the challenges.’ That’s where Martinez is, for me. And I’ve told him that. It’s not just me speaking here. It’s something I’ve talked to him about. It’s time to step up. It’s his opportunity, at his age. It’s, `Let’s go.”’
Murray also referenced Martinez’s work on the power play. The Kings’ power-play goal against Detroit came after Martinez’s quick-release slap shot from the point was deflected in.
MURRAY: “That’s Kyle Quincey to me, when we got him the first year. Everything that came to him was back to the net. And that’s what you have to have. He’s got a very good shot. He can score from the blue line. He’s got a short takeaway. He gets it to the net quickly. Just keep reinforcing it. It’s tremendous. The forwards love it. The puck gets down there, and now they’re ready to battle.”
Damn! TM just “went all Braveheart” on Martinez! love it!
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gave me shivers TM!! player ownership in his team and hisself and his game, balls in your court. carpe diem!!!haha..
sidenote, i know he’s a hated ex-duck, but does AM look like mr HOFer SCotty Niedermeyer? his look, at times his game, skating ?? haha
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i am going to hijack this thread and bash on people who dont find the +/- stat to be valid.If you dont think +/- is an accurate way to depict how the game flows when certain people are on the ice, you must be out of your mind.
it tells everyone if you score or get scored on. its that simple. “some people get matched up against #1 lines” yeah i know, and if you’re in the minus, you suck at it and someone else needs to take that spot.
i really dont understand how ppl de-value this statistic
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deadcatbounce Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
@djpuck, Because if you’re a right defenseman and the guy on the left blows his assignment and you score then your +/- gets screwed.
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mcsorleyfan Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
@deadcatbounce, exactly; and so the only time the stat IS valid is on the same team- and vs guys playing the same ROLE as well. If my responsibility is to see that you don’t get run, but I’m busy scoring a hat trick that night you’re losing your chicklets, have I been a good player? I’m a +5 on the night, but you (our top scorer) are now afraid to handle the puck in open ice for fear of being run over.
Placing too much weight on that +- stat is really a bad idea. Stats out of context are a dangerous thing.
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puddle Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:04 pm
@djpuck, How about the quality of your teammates? (Think Dustin Penner while with the Oilers) How about the quality of your opposition? (Think about playing in the Pacific vs Southeast. Or playing on a shutdown line.) How about whether you play on the PP or PK unit where a goal doesn’t result in +/-? (Think Jack Johnson vs. Willie Mitchell)
You don’t think ANY of these has any effect on one’s +/-?
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djpuck Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
@puddle, of course they have an effect on it. thats all part of an accurate representation of what happens when youre on the ice.
1. the quality of your game is reflected in the quality of your teammates. are you making people better?
2. quality of your opposition? please. every division in the NHL has high quality teams and scorers. and even if some didnt, playing them 6 times instead of 4 wouldnt really make a big difference anyway.
3. jack johnson vs. willie mitchell. are you kidding me? do you know how many times jmfj has botched coverage and given up goals. i lost count after 90. his -12 rating is a perfect indication that he takes too many risks and makes mental mistakes in our own end.
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djpuck Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@djpuck, also take a look at wayne simmonds, he had a great year last year and was leading the team in +/-…. he is sucking this year, and look at that… he is -4
puddle Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
@djpuck,
1) The quality of your game is NOT reflected in the quality of your teammates. This is asinine. What, Rick Nash is not a top player because his team isn’t in the playoffs? Would Gretzky all of a sudden become a worse player overnight if he was traded to a crappy team? That doesn’t make any sense.
2) The difference in playing in a tough division or a tough conference probably doesn’t make THAT much of a difference, but it definitely can. The West is stacked, and the Pacific, more than any other division, is stacked. This can skew the goal differential of a team, which, in turn, would skew the +/- of several players.
3) Look, I agree that +/- has SOME validity, and that it tells some of the story – like with Jack – but I can’t accept that it tells all the story. It’s too nuanced and simplistic to say that it encompasses everything. Jack’s stats have slipped as of late, and this is somewhat reflective of his play, but his stats are also skewed because he plays on the PP and does not play on the PK.
This article, I think, breaks down many of the problems with +/-.
http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=64
PRMan Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
@djpuck, It’s only (partially) valid within a single team. Somebody could be +4 on Vancouver and someone else -2 on the Oilers and the Oilers guy could be WAYYY better. This is because Vancouver’s goal differential is like +40 and Edmonton’s is like -40.
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Choralone Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
@PRMan, I agree that comparing absolute plus/minus between players on different teams is misleading, but is is very usefull for comparing players on the same team (it may be better to compare the rank of one team’s player to that on another team).
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mrbrett7 Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@djpuck, Marty McSorely once had a +54. Marty McSorely was NOT a great defensemen. Marty McSorely was not even a good defensemen. He was an adequate defensemen.
Discussion over.
If your TEAM defense is terrible, it does not matter how good YOU are, your plus/minus suffers. If your TEAM offense if good, it does not matter how good YOU are, your plus/minus will be better.
It’s really not that hard.
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djpuck Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
@mrbrett7, um well apparently marty mcsorely was good enough at defending the net to take the kings to the stanley cup finals…and apparently he was on the ice way more for goals scored than goals against. that usually adds up to a good defenseman
not really sure the logic behind using mcsorely to prove your point.
#fail
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mrbrett7 Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@djpuck, He was on the ice, to protect the stars, not to play defense. Not really hard to know this fact.
You get a plus when your on the ice, and your team scores a goal…pretty easy to have a high plus/minus when your on the ice and Gretzky is out there.
Doc.B Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
@djpuck, Maybe because he had # 99 with him ?! And # 20,#17 #7 and so on…
mcsorleyfan Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
@mrbrett7, I’m @mcsorleyfan, and I approve this message.
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goldielocks Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
@djpuck, Man …. if I were a player and this stupid stat affects my salary, I would definitely refuse to be on the shutdown line. Totally unfair.
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Choralone Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
@goldielocks, Looking at the stat in isolation is dumb, but who does that? It’s intended to be used in conjunction with other stats, and benefits when people drill down more than looking at the overall number. The problem isn’t the statistic itself, but how people misuse it – and how people don’t understand statistics in general.
For instance, if McSorely’s plus/minus was high, how did it compare with that of his defense partner? How did it compare when Gretzky wasn’t on the ice? If we’re going to use a very atypical player like Gretzky as an example, how did McSorely’s plus/minus compare to Gretzky himself? And how did McSorely compare to other defensemen who played with Gretzky? Even then, you can’t look at things in isolation – you have to do some thinking and digging.
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goldielocks Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
@Choralone, Um …. yes. That’s basically what I’m saying.
sstephen17 Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
@djpuck, I’m a fan of the +/- stat but agree it is best used to compare players on the same team. It is interesting to note the NHL career leaders in this stat, all hall of famers:
Larry Robinson +730
Bobby Orr +597
Raymond Borque +528
Wayne Gretzky +518
Bobby Clarke +506
Not counting this year, Nicklas Lidstrom has a +432 which is the highest among active players.
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mcsorleyfan Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
@djpuck, ALL statistics are subject to manipulation.
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KC23 Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@djpuck, If it is a value the GMs, scouts and coaches look at and the league keeps track of, then its important. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue. The only condiction is sample size. It has to be over a considerable time period.
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Gary Reply:
March 12th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
@KC23, it is a good stat, but, like many of you point out, when taking into consideration context. Penner was a minus with the Oil, he’s a plus here. Some shutdown guys are minus. Some PKers get scored on 1 second after the penalty expires. When evaluating players, it is one of MANY things to look at.
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Wow, a Kyle Qunicey reference. He was good when he was here. I’ve read he’s struggled a little this year with the ‘lanche. I wouldn’t be disappointed at all if Martinez consistently does what Quincey did in his season here. Or maybe even land the Kings another top 6 left wing.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
@FKA PakiFro, He’s really either been hurt, or playing hurt since we traded him.
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wavesinair Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
@FKA PakiFro,
Hey! Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
Check this comment from 2 days ago, right after the PP goal…
http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/03/09/kings-2-red-wings-1/#comment-401653
Not too shabby, eh?
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BluLiner Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@wavesinair,
pretty impressive. Tm must have read it also.
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you listening #8 and #3?
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Can we all make a solemn pact to NOT listen to the game or check the internet and post comments/updates here so that the all-important 3 1/2 hour delayed broadcast isn’t ruined?
Thanks in advance.
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Kings Fan Vancouver, WA Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
@Capt Jam, Sorry bud. I will be watching it on Center Ice. But I PROMISE not to post anything until at least 11PM tonight.
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AM has been our diamond in the rough this season. Nice draft by DL, good development with the extra year in Manchester last year, and finally his terrifc performance with the NHL team. He will get the winning goal today.
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friarking Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@DesertKing, or assist as a result of his shot.
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Martinez is the prime example of developing correctly. So many of us (me included) want these kids to be in the NHL the minute they are drafted, but in reality, 99% of them simply are not ready, and won’t be for 3-4 years after they are drafted, sometimes longer.
Draft them, develop them properly regardless of how desperate you are, and good things happen.
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I like these kind of stories. Thank you for posting them, Rich.
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And he has a girlfriend… well, there goes my balloon
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VanKingsFan Reply:
March 11th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
@alma, a girlfriend who lives in another state
It’s a minor obstacle
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Cristina Reply:
April 28th, 2011 at 9:34 am
@VanKingsFan,
So glad i’m not the only martinez fan. ;]
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Alec Martinez has been one of our best defensemen this year he’s a rookie but the coach has enough confidence in him to put him out there in key moments in the game he plays a good 2 way game i think being partnered with Matt Greene and Rob Scuderi at times has really helped him develop…i hope hes a Kings player for a long time our defense corps will be STACKED with talent…i think we already have one of the best in the league on any given night…not to say they dont make mistakes out on the ice but i dont know a defender that doesnt make mistakes with the exception of Nicklas Lidstrom (i know hes a Red Wing but no hockey fan can deny that he isnt one of the best to ever play the game)
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