For all the line-combination changes the Kings have made this season, the most consistent trio has been that of Ryan Smyth, Jarret Stoll and Justin Williams. Put together early in the season, they have been split up a couple times but had played 14 consecutive games together, until this week. The latest line changes have Stoll centering Smyth and Dustin Brown, while Williams moves to skate with Brad Richardson and Michal Handzus. Today, Terry Murray talked about the decision to shake up the Stolll line…
MURRAY: “The line was below average throughout the road trip. There were just too many minuses. The chemistry was not there, throughout the road trip, I felt, and they were really pushing it, really forcing a lot of play on the offensive side of the game. As a result of it, there was stuff coming back at us, on odd(-man) rushes. So we need a different look. We need to get some focus to those decisions that they were making. Stay above it, play from above it. That’s when the good things were happening for that line. With the change, with Brownie going there and with Willy going with Zeus, I think they are still important lines, important players. They’re going to get a lot of situations, a lot of ice time. To me, it’s not a huge change, but it just wasn’t clicking the right way for me.”
Should be interesting to see how this works out. At first blush it looks like a very strange line change, but you never know.
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@KC23, yea it will be ineresting tomorrow game lets hope it works dont want the Duck to win
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TM playing musical chairs and dancing around the problem that DL wont take care of (Sniper LW trade). Also the system is as much to blame, I know we’re solid defensively with the system we have but we’re not scoring. Time to make some adjustments to the system (i.e. Neutral Zone Play) Limiting Dump and Chase to a last resort measure. Dump and chase is crippling our guys, Poni is bad this year because he’s used to being fed the puck in the slot and taking the shot, now he has to stick handle from the boards or behind the net to try to get a crap shot off. We’re not setting anyone up for good shots in the slot, they’re all off the perimeter. Are crease presence is also lacking as of late, we haven’t been chipping in a lot of rebounds because we’re playing at the perimeter.
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Jstin Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 3:53 pm
@TheRussianKing,
I nominate TheRussianKing as our new coach! Let’s give his ideas a try, I like it!
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TheRussianKing Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:04 pm
@Jstin, Thanks, but I’m no coach. Just a fan who see’s glaring mistakes on the ice that TM and DL aren’t actively addressing. We’re masquerading our problems in disguise of unmotivated players, it’s easier for TM to call someone out than adjust his own (1990′s expansion hockey)system. Frolov didn’t get worse or better under TM, TM’s system just cant compensate someone with Frolov’s skill-set. We’re seeing the same thing with Kopi now, because he’s just chipping in shots from the perimeter because he know’s if he muscles the puck to the crease he’ll have no outlet to pass to for the close-range one-timer likc Tampa does with Stamkos all the time. Instead, he just get’s triple teamed on the rush to the front of the crease, knocked on his butt, and has to back-check the other way and play a “2-way game”. We’re misusing our assets and forcing them to play under the system instead of using a system that the players we already have can thrive under.
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LW Anybody? Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@TheRussianKing, !00% agree.
Chuck Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@TheRussianKing,
Dude, seriously your comments make a lot of sense to me. This was not the typical TM DL hater post i read here on the boards by other folks. Very educated and well thought out. I sit in front of the tv every game wondering why the heck they cant get good shots or rebounds. Now I get it. So, I guess we’re screwed.
CupRun2011 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@TheRussianKing, I somewhat agree with your analysis, but it’s really hard to argue being 5-1-3 on the road trip. When you focus on defence first (“home plate” mentality, you get the kind of play we’re having..boring. When you sacrifice the D, then you start opening up the game, and it exposes us to our general lack of speed up and front (as exemplified in the last game against the NYI).
I say, play the stifling, smothering D, they have been playing, keep the score low and be patient for the opposition to start taking chances in the 3rd period, then counter with odd-man rushes. That’s the way they need to play for the playoffs and if it’s getting them 2 points, who cares?
puck73 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:06 pm
@TheRussianKing, Great analysis…thats the problem I have with TM and Kompon as well…very well said.
Lime Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@TheRussianKing, I have to say watching the Pens-Caps game last night the Caps looked like the ‘new’ system they implemented is our system to a T. Funny thing is about that situation they won 1-0…from a power play goal….from arguably the best LW in the game today. Good times.
THEROCKNROLL80S Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@TheRussianKing, we need to be in an offensive system not a defensive system.
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Scot Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@TheRussianKing,
Did you see Jim Fox’s breakdown of our PP during the NY Islanders game, where the Kings had 4 of their 5 guys all about 60 feet away from the net, and Handzus was standing alone in front? That was ugly looking!
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PRMan Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@Scot, And yet, against the team with the most shorties in the league, you can’t be too aggressive. And we got one scored on us anyway.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@TheRussianKing,
“system is as much to blame”
…for a 5-1-3 roadie. It’s insane to criticize recent play. Sure, the Islanders game was pathetic. But the trip was a great success and kept us in the hunt BIG TIME.
Why?
Well, because the “system” was tweaked before the trip as was noted by just about everyone here. So you’re coming into it late I’m afraid. TM worked on activating the defensemen more and getting more shots from the middle of the ice. They also changed up the PP. I believe these changes helped make the success of the trip possible.
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xeropoint Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:54 pm
@wavesinair, Maybe from the middle of the blueline. Any sort of slot presence has been absent most of the year. This is by design, I know.
Although I don’t think anyone can argue the “system” isn’t effective or that the trip wasn’t very good, there are absolutely flaws within the structure that are exacerbated by poor play.
Even when the Kings are on their game, you will see a lot of time spent in the offensive zone with very few quality chances generated from it.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@xeropoint, No doubt. It’s been a frustration for 2 years. But the “slot presence” you speak of is exactly what they have been working on. I don’t know if it will continue or even if it will make a big difference, but I think that it will if TM keeps on it. We don’t have the players to make it work like other teams, but I think with the right execution, players like Kopi, Brown, Stoll, Williams, Poni and even Richie can get a deadly shot off from the slot.
TheRussianKing Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 7:27 pm
@wavesinair, I cant disagree with you, but we’re both saying the same thing. I don’t believe I’m “late” because your argument is based of results(i.e W vs L) but if you look back at the road trip our team couldn’t get the job done in regulation with few exceptions. Our system pushes the game into these OverTime and ShootOut situations because of the style we play. You counter my argument by saying TM activated the defensemen, in the system we have D’s really are the main offensive threat because everyone is on the perimeter essentially waiting for the other team to get the puck and bring it back the other way. We’re not attacking the puck on the inside, rather we wait for it to get to the boards and countless time’s we try to battle it out, get it to the D’s on the blue line and repeat. It’s such a sloppy system offensively that essentially the easiest position to stand-out offensively is on defense. Teams love playing us in their D-zone because we’re so predictable, on the other hand when our system is executed properly in our D-Zone we’re a nightmare for many teams. The reason our system collapses offensively all goes back to the dump and chase because the guys battle the puck out of the boards and begin their hypnotic cycle around the perimeter with minimal quality chances. We need a strong offensive rush in the neutral zone with snappy passes and one-timer’s, not the usual “Ok guys get in your positions and play keep away with the puck”. Looking back on our great road-trip (results wise) with the exception of Washington we did not win games convincingly or offensively for that matter. Our games are all close-calls, and with the personnel we have we have the potential to be more of an offensive threat without exposing our Defense. If the Offense is playing its game and taking up more room in the slot, than our D can still be active and TM doesn’t have to activate them. Lately our best offensive spark all around has been Matt Green with his wild rushes (Which I greatly respect) but it’s not his job and not even apart of his particular job description. All of our games have us on the edge of our seats because TM’s system basically say’s get on the board first and then lock-it-down, if they tie it up try to drag into OT but if they score then tie it back up and then lock-it-down again. It’s a crazy system, all season long our boys have not had any breathing room in games because they’re told to lock the game down. What TM essentially does to the team is forces more time for us to play in our D-zone and lock it down without enforcing the North-South mentality of now bring the rush back the other way. Whenever we have a lead against a good team, we find ourselves spending the rest of the time in our D-zone until they score and then we need to “activate the defensemen” to get us back on the board and back to shut-down again.
Without pushing more of an offensive agenda our team will not go far because we always try to score out of desperation, never out of surplus to outscore the other team offensively. ITS SO BORING!!!!
(BTW sorry for the late reply I was in crazy LA traffic coming home from school)
Hope tomorrow’s a great day for us and the Kings, and I hope to see as many of you as possible at the game.
GO KINGS GO
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CB14 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 7:47 pm
@TheRussianKing, Great Post, Agree with everything. I wish someone would tell TM the old phrase, “The best defense is a good offense”. It’s possible he’s never heard of it. LOL.
EternalOptimist Reply:
February 23rd, 2011 at 1:18 am
@TheRussianKing,
Great discussion guys… IMO the reason that we are playing dump and chase most of the time is because of the poor breakout, transition game out of our zone. If we can’t enter the offensive zone with speed, then dumping it in is the only safe option.
Our breakouts were so clean and enjoyable to watch at the beginning of the year so I don’t know what happened. The Smyth-Stoll-Williams line was particular strong in this area. Maybe the players need to support each other better or the lines need to stay together longer to develop chemistry (kind of baffling that we are still constantly scramble the lines this late in the season to find chemistry)… I don’t know what the right solution is here. But I think this is the key thing that we need to address to jump start our offensive game.
Biggest game of the year so far today… let’s get a win boys!
BigMikeonD Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:55 pm
@TheRussianKing, ON the topic of a Left Wing? Who do you want and who can we get? Without mortgaging the future (Schenn), who we going to get. It’s not like Dean doesn’t want to make a trade. Seems like it might be easy but it’s not.
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Murray just does not get it. Smyth and Williams feed off each other. Keep that line the same.
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@THEROCKNROLL80S,
They need much, much more mutual feeding, in that case…
Haven’t produced much, lately.
Call in a caterer.
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THEROCKNROLL80S Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:48 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, Great humor. I needed that. Thanks
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 9:39 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, Need a center to feed the meal.
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WHY!!!! Thats the line that has been there the most!!!!! Getting pissed!
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THEROCKNROLL80S Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm
@king lopez, exactly! That line has chemistry too. As a matter of fact, the line has the most chemistry out of any Kings’ lines.
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I’m baffled by the number of changes (Loktionov, Martinez, now the lines)the team is making after a highly successful road trip. Losing the last two (one being a SO loss)games to me is more a byproduct of fatigue, not of poor play by a particular player.
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CB14 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:10 pm
@sstephen17, Do you not know who our head coach is? TM just has to change the lines, it’s in his blood.
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Well if changing the right side will gain an advantage on a stronger forchecking position, then I guess that’s a change with a purpose. I think it’s more than just a personell problem on the right side. While your moving Willy, since Sturm is coming back for his 1rst game in a while, can you put Williams with him and Kopi, and put Simmers back where he should be, by the second period? Thanks.
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TheRussianKing Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:15 pm
@Dominick, You know you’re right. No one doubts TM wont juggle the lines so bad that by the middle of the game we’ll have.
Clifford-Kopi-Richardson
Sturm-Stoll-Simmonds
Poni-Zues-Brown
Smyth-Lewis-Williams
(Doesn’t look half bad compared to what its been lately)
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Harty Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:35 pm
@TheRussianKing, like it…….
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I’m wondering – do other teams change up their lines as often as TM has changed the Kings lines this year? I’m just an armchair coach, but it seems like you’d want to play the same lines consistently so players are comfortable with each other and their style of play. I’m not saying they need to play the same lines all season, but playing the same lines for 1, 2, or 3 games does not give players time to familiarize themselves with their linemates to get any chemistry going.
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xeropoint Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:56 pm
@Resedakingsfan, Every coach does it. Definitely not exclusive to the Kings.
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Space_Shot Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:08 pm
@Resedakingsfan,
Yes, most other teaks are CONSTANTLY changing their lines. Go to any other fan site or message board and you will see the exact same conversations there.
In the past 6 games the trio has combined for 8 points total. In the past 4 games Stoll and Smyth have combined for a whopping 0 points. Their early season chemistry bought them more time than the other lines have gotten, but a couple games apart – or could just be a couple shifts with in-game adjustments – is long overdue. Our “most productive” line needs to produce more than 3 goals in the past 10 games. All of our top 6 forward need to kick it into gear if the Kings are going to be playing after April 9th. The Ducks would be a great launching pad for a much overdue offensive explosion.
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our focus for 2012 has to be too get quicker……
those slowing us down right now….
-Zues
-Smyth
-Greene
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Choralone Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 6:01 pm
@Harty, As much as I love him, I think Zeus is gone next year (or at best, resigned in a reduced, fourth-line role). Smyth has what, one year left – doubt he’d be coming back, but I think we’re wed to him until then. The problem is who do we replace them with? No one has consistently stepped up to park themselves in front of the net and take the punishment like those two have.
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TheRussianKing Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 7:31 pm
@Harty, They’re slow because the system we play is taking a toll on their bodies. Battling at the boards all the time and spending tons of time on defense blocking shots. Zues and Smyth still have a lot of juice in them if they were under a more offensive first system that promotes snappy passes and one-timers in the slot. Also gives them more chances off rebounds, our system is designed for the quick and restless, not the slow/not fast and skilled.
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ever make a comment, nod off and come back 3 threads later? Well, Grandpa is back you young whipper snappers! lol
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@HappyLappy,
Yep.
No matter how old you are, the threads just keep getting older and older, faster and faster…
Makes me want to take up Twitter.
–Nah.
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The line changes are ridiculous.. Williams, brown and kopi are the kings top +/- Why move williams to the third line? These should be the lines
sturm-kopi-williams (all 3 can pass,, score, skate and play D)
smyth-stoll-brown (2 fast skaters, smyth stand in friend and let brown and stoll fire away))
poni-handz-Rich (rich can add speed)
cliff-lewis-simmons (all 3 have played like 4th liners this season.. )
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Dominick Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@jason,
I only see 1 change I would make, and that is to switch Simmers and Richie. Simmers has played most of his young career with Zues at center, and I’d like to see some consistancy in these lines for a while. Poni and Ciffy could alternate during games depending on physical tuff guy match ups vs physical forchecking match ups.
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KC23 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 9:54 pm
@jason, My lines would be:
Smyth-Kopi-Williams
Sturm-Stoll-Brown
Poni-Handz-Simmons
Cliff-Lewis-Rich
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puck73 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 10:06 pm
@KC23, That sounds good to me. That being said, you and I both want Loktionov back ! lol
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they should put back together the smyth, kopi, williams line, it worked great last year, dont recall seeing it this year though?
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Dominick Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@randal, It lasted 1 game back in December I believe.
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randal Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 6:11 pm
@Dominick, probably for one period as well, that could be the reason i missed it.
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Dominick Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 7:02 pm
@randal, It was the 3rd in the game before, then an aticle by Rich, than 2 periods the next game.
I am going to be quite blunt here…
Does Murray REALLY expect this line to score 1 or 2 goals per game?
So they haven’t scored….this line drove Washington ABSOLUTELY NUTS with their cycling. Even the announcers were talking about how effective they were.
This is an absolute disaster. We are struggling to score goals…yet we demote a guy like Loktionov who is providing a spark…and now Martinez is scratched.
Now the Stoll line is broken up.
Murray has generally stuck to a line-up that wins…now he has blown everything up over one loss.
He blew it up after ONE bad period against the Rangers. The team was having a great road trip and he continues to tinker with no reason.
WTF is going on??????
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In the old days, when a group of profesionals had their performance fall off, you talked to them about it, pointed out the problems, discussed new strategies, and coached them back to the level where they had been. I don’t see where changing lines solves those issues and replaces the teaching component of “coaching.”
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Brown and Ryan shoudl open alot of ice for Stoll. With Stoll’s speed and great shot, can score some goal. He needs to stay open for one timers.
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The team has been, in my estimation, about right on track for a good finish. Things are going along pretty well for ateam with this amount of youth. They play a stingy kind of hockey that is more suited to the last 2 weeks of the season than the first 2 weeks. Let it ride boys.
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