As you might have heard, Andrei Loktionov didn’t make it back to California with the Kings. In fact, Loktionov was in the lineup for Manchester on Sunday after his latest 12-game stint with the Kings. After practice today, Terry Murray took his third — and, in fact, fourth — turn at explaining why Loktionov didn’t stay in the lineup. As a side note, while there’s no assurance that Loktionov will be back soon, the NHL’s roster limit of 23 players is removed on March 1. However, teams must still stay under the salary cap, and a maximum of three non-injury moves are allowed. Here were Murray’s further thoughts on Loktionov’s move to the AHL, starting with whether it was a difficult choice for the Kings to send him down…
MURRAY: “Yeah, it was. He played well for us, and I love the kid. He brings skill level, a great competitive attitude. He is a player who is going to be a long-time player for the L.A. Kings. I felt, as we got through that road trip, it’s a hard road trip. Emotionally, physically, it’s very demanding. You’re traveling late night, every night, and there were a couple of games where he was starting to get exposed on system play. Right now, we’re in a position where we have to execute all of the details of the game. That’s where you have to make a decision on him. The bottom line, though, is that he’s only a phone call away. He can get himself some rest, start to get gathered in and contribute with Manchester, and he’s only a phone call away, and we can make that call and get him back.”
Question: It seemed like, for a while there, he was one of your better players…
MURRAY: “He played good for us. That’s what I was just saying. He played very well. We got him back to the center position, and that’s where his game started to look more comfortable. He had the puck on his stick a lot. He scored a nice goal in Washington, off a rebound by Clifford. Overall, his game was good. But you get into those real competitive games, as we were in against the Rangers. It’s one goal, it’s back and forth. There were three or four different looks that they had that were because of losing some coverage. Points are everything for us right now. He just got exposed in it, so I had to make a decision on the lineup the next night against the Islanders, and he was the guy who came out.”
And it worked great, TM! Take out an offense spark with speed against a suspect NYI defense. Of course, any D corps would have looked like world-beaters against that ghastly offensive performance. I actually retched at one point.
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fsd1 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:36 pm
@Datacloud, Everything he says make TOTAL sense to me, not sure what you are so upset about?
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wannabeking Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@fsd1, 4 games till March 1st. hope we don’t lose any ground by then.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@fsd1, Probably because most people think 1 20 year old kid who scored 5 points in 10 games, or something like that, makes this team a cup contendar…gee, can you sense the scarcasm?
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:45 pm
@Datacloud, You really believe they lost to the Islanders because Lokti wasn’t in the lineup?!?!
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Doughty99 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:51 pm
@Osaka,
I believe we scored 0 goals b/c Lokti wasn’t in the lineup.
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KingsFanFTW Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@Doughty99, yea when we have Lokti i the line up doesnt make us score like 5 or 6 goal if he was in the line up u guys still find ways to blame the coaches
Blame the PP coach
Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@Doughty99, Isn’t that just a little presumptuous. Kopitar didn’t score, your saying Lokti is a better offensive player? You can make the argument he makes the Kings offense better, but to say we were shut out because he wasn’t in the lineup is a stretch. The Kings played poorly, period. The Kings have 32 wins and he has played in 19 games, they won a few without him. In 19 games he has 4 goals and 7 points, that’s it! We didn’t send Sidney Crosby down, let’s put it in perspective.
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:10 pm
@Doughty99,
Impossible to prove that.
Decision was made/game was lost, a typical end-of-successful-roadtrip trap game result.
Sturm is coming into the lineup.
Loki has NOT been traded.
5-1-3 road trip looks great, but playoffs will depend on the next ten games, especially because of the St. Louis and Dallas trades indicating they may be sellers in the days before the deadline.
Kings still lacks the offensive spark to make it a truly dominant team.
Both sides can be right on the Loki issue.
The next ten games will determine the outcome.
HBFan Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:22 pm
@Doughty99, Blame the Coach? Blame the players! They didn’t even show up to be coached.Even with AL in the lineup still would have been 21 on 1. They get paid very well, you can’t always “Blame the Coach” Players need to have some accountability. You want to talk about winning. We couldn’t even win a puck battle much less score. Winning that game was out of the question soon after the opening faceoff. You could have had Scotty Bowman, Toe Blake and Al Arbour behind the bench Saturday and we still would have lost.
Hope the Boys had fun on in the Meat Packing district on Friday.
Dominick Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@Doughty99, We’ve been shut out before with Lokti in the Line up. Why is it all of a sudden different against the Islanders? Suddenly the kid is money in the bank.
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@Datacloud,
I mean this with total respect, but you have got to be joking. Sending a guy with less than half a season of NHL experiences is not costing us games. We were due for a stinker, and I’m taking solace it came against the Isles rather than the ducks.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:31 pm
@Action, Amen
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Dan H. Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:11 am
@Datacloud,
If they replaced Lokti with someone who would play minutes and make a difference it’s one thing. They put Westgarth in who makes more errors in his 5 minutes of play and can’t keep up with the play anyway than Lokti did in his stint up here.
Quisp has some interesting numbers if anyone is interested in looking at stats with Lokti in the lineup and what he does.
The one thing Lokti does better than anyone on the team and yes better than Kopi is distribute. He’s a playmaker that makes his linemates better. I’m not going to say he’s Gretzky or Allison but I can’t think of anyone we’ve had since allison who was able to distribute like Lokti can.
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interesting for sure, why all the dog and pony show on this? its like he knows people are upset about the move lol
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:21 pm
@pr0cess, Maybe because the fans won’t shutup about it, therefore the media is asking him about it.
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Thank You Rich for asking the questions us fans wanted to ask TM about Lokti. I didn’t like TM’s answers and reasoning for sending Lokti down, but at least he answered them. I just wish he would let Lokti learn from his mistakes up here with the Kings. He’s too good of a player offensively to not be with us, especially with our offensive struggles.
P.S. Rich, If you wouldn’t mind, could you ask TM why they don’t change up the PP system?
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Doughty99 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:59 pm
@CB14,
Agree. Thanks for asking TM, Rich. I also don’t like the decision or the answer to his questions. Hopefully TM will bring him back at 12:01am 3/1//11.
As other have pointed out, Lokti was not the only one exposed in the Rangers’ game.
Again, as others have pointed, out, Lokti has the highest win % by player on the Kings’ roster. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.
We went 7-0-3 with him in the lineup. 0-1-0 (& 0 Goals) without him. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@Doughty99, That stat is useless over a short period of time. If you used 40 games or more you might have something.
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Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:34 pm
@Osaka,
Sample size is a foreign concept to many it would seem.
Quisp Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:19 pm
@Osaka, @action
You can say small sample size all you want (by the way, it’s 13-3-3 with Loktionov in the line-up), but statistical significance depends on effect size as well as sample size, and if the effect size is sufficiently large, smaller sample sizes can still be relevant.
For example, if a goalie is 10-0 and the team is 10-10 on the whole, you would not say 10 games is too small a sample size to draw some conclusions based on those results.
Or, look at it this way. If 3 out of 4 people die when they eat my salmon mousse, the effect size (death) is large enough to call the results meaningful despite only having 4 data points.
Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:31 pm
@Quisp
If he had more than 7 points in the 19 games you might have an argument. Since we all aree he is not a physical force on the ice he needs to score to be effective right? It was his play without the puck that was in question. He has 4 goals and 7 points in 19 games! Your stat holds no weight. The Kings are streaky.
justlu Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:19 pm
@Osaka,
You have to take into account 14 of those games he didn’t play his natural postition. The 4 games he played this year at center he had 2G and 1A with a +3 rating. Eventhough its too small of a sample size for you to count the kid has 3pts in 4 games at center his natural postion.
Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:48 pm
@justlu Agreed.
Quisp Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 7:02 pm
@Osaka,
I do have an argument. It goes like this. With Loktionov centering the third line, the Kings have two lines an opponent has to check, the Stoll line and the Loktionov line. The Kopitar line becomes the shut-down line and the Kings win. Loktionov doesn’t have to score for this to be effective.
Tmik Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:17 pm
@Doughty99,
One Game does not an accurate sample make.
So yes. Coincidence.
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Gary Livingston Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:20 pm
@CB14,
TM sat him on the bench.
Dean sent him down.
Ugh.
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CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@Gary Livingston, Yes DL assigned him to Manchester, but do you honestly think DL would send him down if TM told him not too? I don’t think so. I tend to think that Head coaches and General Managers actually communicate with each other. I guess i’m just completely mistaken.
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Gary Livingston Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 11:19 pm
@CB14,
Yes, I honestly do. There is a reason why Dean is a general manager and a well respected one. It is not because he takes orders from his coach.
And, what options does the team have with Sturm coming back? Lose a player to waivers just to keep Loktionov in the line up this week instead of on the bench or playing?
Did you miss the part about how he can come back to the Kings in a week with no consequences and without needing to risk losing a player on waivers?
So, yes, I’m sure you are right that TM and Dean talk plenty.
But, I’m sure even if TM said that Lokti is playing great and should stay Dean would still move him down for the time being because it just makes sense.
Gary Livingston Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 11:43 pm
@CB14,
Oh! Wait!
Souray is the answer! Scouting report from the Rangers:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/02/07/souray_scouts_rangers/
I agree with TM on.this one. Let the kid get some rest, kick butt in Manchester, then bring him back if we don’t make a trade after March 1st.
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Why can so many other teams make THE DEAL and improve and the Kings can not?
We are no better than l;ast year even though a few pieces are better.
We simply cvant score when needed.
We dont have the sniper that a lot of other teams have.
Think of the beautiful goals this year against us by such players as, Jason Spezza , Rick Nash, Matt Moulson, and so many other goals made by our opponents.
If we had just a few more goals when needed we would avoid a lot of overtimes and have alot more wins.
The defense and goaltending are tops in the league.
We are so close yet still lack this key critical piece !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TheRussianKing Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 3:57 pm
@hip-check, I agree, I’ve been chanting that a lot recently. Of course I dont agree with trading Schenn for anyone, but i think DL can formulate the type of deal we need.
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CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:04 pm
@hip-check, Because we don’t have players on our roster that we could afford to give up that other teams would want. Teams don’t seem to want prospects. Most of the trades that have happened so far were for NHL players, or 1st round picks. Not to mention most of these teams gave up alot of picks for 2nd or 3rd line players. A 1st and a 3rd for Versteeg??? He is a 3rd line RW, mabye a 2nd if he progresses, which we don’t need. A 1st and a 2nd for Fisher??? He is a 2nd line center, which we already have Stoll for. I would love if we could add a Nash, or Parise, but guys like Penner, Hemsky, and Booth don’t excite me that much, especially for the high asking prices.
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HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:19 pm
@CB14, Geeze, someone here DOES get it…..
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:21 pm
@CB14, Right again
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Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@CB14, You think those teams overpaid? I thought those were great deals. Their is a price to success. There were needs that were addressed. All the hockey experts thought Nashville, Philli, and Boston hit homeruns. Today Pitt hit a homerun with Neal. Booth and Penner don’t excite you?!?! Those guys are hockey players. Aren’t many LW better than that. Sedin and Ovechkin aren’t being traded. Booth and Penner ARE the big fish so to speak to land.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@Osaka, So Versteeg helsp the Kings? Where does Kaberle fit into this roster? Fisher is a center, who does he replace?
I’m all for trades, but not just to MAKE a trade.
Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@mrbrett7 No just making a point, I didn’t want the Kings to get those players at all. CB14 thought teams overpaid for those players. Like I said Booth and Penner are 2 LW’s I would love LA to land.
jet Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:07 pm
@hip-check, the street word is that nash is available for JJ, Brown, Schenn and two firsts. Is that really what you want? Please put a little thought into your blasts.
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hip-check Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@jet, Smiles…as a kings fan since 1973 I put an incredible amount of thought into my posts. I also am a canadian and played a lot of hockey.
I wouldnt trade that much for Nash and your post was rather immature .
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HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:14 pm
@hip-check, Au Contraire my friend I think jet made a point. Think about it some…..
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@hip-check,
I’m Canadian too and played 20 years of competitive hockey. Congratulations.
On a relevant note, you’d crap your pants if you saw the asking price for Rick Nash. Spezza’s contract is bad, plus he’s a center when we need scoring wingers, at Matt Moulson is right where he needs to be to flourish. He wouldn’t get near the ice time he’s getting on any other team, and that’s not a knock on him.
Bottom line, Dean doesn’t seem to be willing to give up Schenn (or any of the obvious in 11, 8, 3, 23) nor should he. Doughty is going to need a big contract this summer, don’t forget that when considering adding pieces.
jet Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@hip-check, Smiles back – look, being canadian, i am sure you understand top hockey players are not given away. If we look at your suggestion of picking up Jason Spezza (anchor around the neck contract) , Rick Nash (not available), Matt Moulson (30 goal scorer in a wide open system for the worst team in the league), then you are not being serious. You have just made a completely useless suggestion to take a whack at DL and I called you on it. If you really think that my post is offensive, than I apologize. But, then I would ask you to post would you would put up for each of the players mentioned.
Your friend, jet
PS, a BJ employee told a friend that Nash was not available because he sells tickets. When pressed he said, for starters, their best young F and D under contract, a couple of sure prospects and a couple of firsts. I extrapolated the players mentioned above by defining “under contract” as a cheap, long term contract.
Jason4Kings Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@hip-check,
He was just making a point that it would take way too much for someone like Nash, so he’s right there. But, there was attitude in it,so the last line of your post isn’t without merit. I think what a certain number of people are doing around here is sticking up for the organization, and if anyone (you, me, someone else)comes here and throws up frustration like that they’re gonna pay for it. This is a tough room. I’ve played hockey before too, but i suck at it, and i’m certainly not from Canada (though i love visiting!). Mostly i’m just a huge Kings fan and have been for a long time. Anyone is allowed to come spew as long as they follow Rich’s rules, and spew they do!
Go Kings!
mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@hip-check, I’m a Californian and have played hockey for almost 30 years…what’s your point? Only Canadians know hockey?
TheRussianKing Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@jet, Where did you hear that? Thats outrageous, sound’s like a CBJ fans list of demands.
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HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@TheRussianKing, jet was being sarcastic to make a point. That point being that the snipers that were mentioned WILL NOT come for free. DL has to weigh what he would be giving up and what he will get.
But too many people seem like they are saying “C’mon DL, get a 40 goal scorer, but don’t give up a prospect or Roster player to do it”.
Come to think of it, I HAVE seem almost those literal words posted here…..
hip-check Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@TheRussianKing, I agree with you . I have not seen that on any rumor board and I read all I can…bogus in my opinion that Nash is even available at all. I can dream but it is fantasy.
I want to be realistic.
Some people here are asleep. We are currently not even in the playoff picture….
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@TheRussianKing,
I think he was just proving a point.
HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:12 pm
@hip-check, What are the “many” teams that made “THE DEAL” and improved? Please provide examples, because I’m not aware that there are so many.
ANY TEAM can say “If we had just a few more goals when needed we would avoid a lot of overtimes and have alot more wins.”. Yes, even Vancouver.
You guys just simply won’t accept the fact you have to give up something to get something…..
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hip-check Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:20 pm
@HockeyNerd,
What would I give up..of course there is a price and the price is related to what you buy.
So yes we have to give up something to get something good.
I would love to have gotten Grabner for example.
I would love to have gotten Neal or even Versteeg. I wish we had Moulson still as a king….
None of that is now in the cards…
But there are still scorers available.
You ask who is better.
Tkae a look at our disliked ducks. They keep getting pieces.
Look at what Philly did…..Made themselves stronger.
San Jose just improved defensively….
Id like Penner or David Booth Or Stansy from Colorado at right price. Maybe even Spezza or Hemsky .We just need one scorer. And this summer Id be hopeful of Parise to take us all the way.
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HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@hip-check, Anaheim has lost their last 3 games, and gave up 9 goals in one of them. If this is your example of how the BIG DEAL makes a team improve, please leave me and my Kings out of it…..
puck73 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:31 pm
@hip-check, The Ducks traded for Beauchemin and have stunk up the joint on defense ever since.
mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:37 pm
@hip-check, Anaheim has done nothing but improve their muckers. They currently have no goaltending, and a defensive core that consists of a rookie, and Beuchemin of whom nobody knows if he will ever regain his form.
The Sharks have had a top line missing the entire year, and picking up Ian White doesn’t really help them.
Philly just added a top 9 skater with experienc, I agree, with Versteeg, they are a better team.
Boston, of all the teams, IS now a better team as THEIR moves provided them with something they needed. A PP QB (which allows Recchi to go back to the slot) and a replacement, albeit a poor mans replacement, for Savard.
You mentioned Stastney…he’s available all of a sudden? Yeah…ummmmkay.
Your just throwing out names I believe, because your frustated…but I’m only guessing. Hemsky provides no help…wrong position. Spezza, albeit a great talent, his contract is nuts. Penner is an enigma…only plays when he feels like it, however, for the correct price (I would give them Hickey and a 2nd round pick), I would be willing to do that because he plays the CORRECT position of need. He could help the PP (theoretically), and has playoff experience with success. Booth is an unkown, as he has never played a full season I believe…and Parise…sure, love to have him. I would be willing to bet my right arm that even if he leaves NJ (which won’t happen), he won’t leave the East.
Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@HockeyNerd, Pitt got James Neal pretty cheap. That was one LW I was hoping the Kings would get. Nashville only gave up picks for Mike Fisher. Philli only gave up picks for Versteeg. Boston gave up a player and a pick for Kaberle.
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hip-check Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@Osaka, BINGO…this is what I mean…
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:33 pm
@Osaka,
Cheap??? 1st Rounders were involved in both of those deals, plus additionals. I dont know how that could be considered cheap.
CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:43 pm
@Osaka, James Neal is the only guy that would fit our team out of those 4 guys. He got traded for a young top 4 d-man, do you want to trade DD or JJ for Neal? I don’t think so
Versteeg is a RW, we have 3 of those already, plus a 1 and 3 is too much IMO
Fisher is a C, we have too many of those as it is, not to mention our 2 top prospects are both C’s. Also a 1 and a 3 for him as well. He might be worth it, but what do you do with Stoll and Handzus then? You can’t pay a combined 7.6 mil. for your 3 and 4 line centers.
Kaberle had a no-trade clause and would only waive it to go to Boston.
vicarious Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:51 pm
@Osaka, Its frustrating sure but personally I HATE the lateral moves. The Kings needed a scoring left winger; DL brought the Kings Smythe and Sturm. DL tried to get Kovalchuk and that effort probably lost LW Frolov. Poni plays a decent hard game–I wld not fault his effort–but without Frolov creating we saw Simmonds and Handzus drop off in their scoring. Getting a rental at the price people are asking is probably a bad idea, IMO. Not that I love the status quo to be sure. I still think this is the best Kings team in years, and they may not make the playoffs. Too bad the Kings cld not have signed Frolov and Poni. Maybe Fro-Kopitar-Brown wld hv learned how to play with each other and the Kings wld hv two very dangerous lines. I think it puts too much pressure on Kopitar to play without a skilled creative sniper. Just my opinion. But the Kings management did try and so we can assume probably are trying to trade or find that 2nd scoring LW. Parse got hurt and the others are not 1st line NHL quality–not to fault their effort. Oh well. I hope we beat and finish ahead of the ducks. In the long run, I’d prefer the Kings miss the playoffs than line up against the Nuck’s as an 8th seed.
hip-check Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:09 pm
@Osaka, Fisher was aterrific pickup and he is helping Nashville.
The kings arent my kings or someone elses Kings as written here, They are OUR Kings and each one of us has right to our opinion.
And to respect each opinion is implied by me at least.
I simply want us to get someone that has gifted hands and speed to get the puck imn the net and make Kopi the player I expect he can be. At the same time I want us in the playoffs contending.
At this point we are NOTTTTTTTTTTTT
Puckn-A Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 10:07 am
@Osaka, 1st rounders are a bargain, were just gonna waste it on an undersized D prospect that takes 5 years in the minors to “groom”.
Osaka Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@CB14 Oh Neal is the only guy I would have wanted on the Kings. I was just making a point on the other trades, Hockeynerd wanted examples of teams making “The Deal” to improve their team. I thought Philli, Boston, Nashville, and Pitt did good for themselves. I would love to see the Kings try for David Booth or Penner, both great LW. You not going to get much better at LW. Kristian Huselius is another LW I would love to see with the Kings.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:40 pm
@Osaka, Huselius is someone I would look at for a late push. He can score, although not on the level we need, in reality.
Shero in Pittsburgh flat out STOLE Neal from Dallas. Neal and Niskanen (who was really just a throw in anyway) for Goligoski???? Goligoski may have been a former 1st rounder, but that kid is such a train wreck in his own zone it’s frightening.
Actually…he did the Kings a favor…this trade just basically eliminated Dallas from the playoffs.
gene Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:32 pm
@hip-check, I have been asking myself the same thing, every Feb most of the teams who are in contention, go out just to trade but trade to make there teams better for the playoffs. Why hasnt DL done this????????????? We need another top six palyer. Period. Deal DL, do something that is positvie for the play offs. Hopefully we will be there>
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
@hip-check, I will ask you the same I ask everyone else.
Who is available and for what price?
James Neal? You really think Dallas is trading within it’s own conference, let along division?
Wbo else has been traded, that helps where the Kings NEED the help, and makes and actual trading partner, AND who are you giving up?
It’s easy to complain…much more difficult to make a real suggestion that makes sense.
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HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@mrbrett7, Exactly.
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Hip-Check Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:50 pm
@mrbrett7, You made a great point I too think Dallas was just elimated with this trade.
Re your point about being californian anhd playing hockey. Yes you have good hockey sense. Ive read your posts.
My point about being canadian is that I grew up living across the street from a hockey rink and my father flooded out back yard in the winter so I could play. My point was i grew up knowing and playing hockey and I tend to get a bit irritable to be told my opinion is a poor opinion.
The kings are very weak at scoring 5 on 5 They are very weak at power play and we need a scoring left wing badly, or in my opinion we wotn even make the playoffs let alone make a serious run if we did get there.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:48 am
@Hip-Check, I’m a realist.
This team, move or no move, is NOT making a serious run, and was never going to.
Team needs:
1 2nd line center: Stoll and Handzus are not the answers, and have never been intended to BE the answers. That role, and that position will be taken be either Loktionov and/or Schenn. The loser of that battler will be the 3rd line center. My opinion is that Loktionov will win that battle as from what I have seen, not only does he have more offensive upside, to play a 3rd line center shutdown role, you must have more physical strength, and be bette on the dot, both of which Schenn can do.
This is part of the process. Lombardi wants to build this team the way Detroit was built. It took them 8 years. Yzerman didn’t even sniff the playoffs until his late 20′s.
Other needs:
2 Top 6 LW: You need 1 for your 1st line, and this will most likely NOT be coming from within the organization (at least not now). You need one for the 2nd line. Ryan Smyth is that role for now. That will last 1, maybe two more years. Basically for the length or term of his contract. THIS IS HOW IT’S DONE WITH THE SALARY CAP. That role MAY be fought for from within by someone we haven’t seen yet (a draft pick), or via trade/free agency.
3 defensmen…not now, but within the next 2-3 years. 1 to replace Mitchell, and 1 to replace Scuderi. Who are these guys? Voynov and ? Voynov will be here sooner than later…I don’t care about the numbers he put up in Manchester, as those rarely translate to the NHL, unless your a God.
Goaltending…that will be Lombardi’s biggest headache. What does he do? Bernier is the more talented of the two, however, Quick has proven, for 2 1/2 years now, he is a bonafide NHL #1 goaltender, while Bernier has not. Bernier has more upside, but the question is, do you run with it? Or use that asset for what you need? Is Jones or Zatkoff reliable enough in the future to be a backup?
In the salary cap NHL, if you build from within, you simply cannot play for today…you MUST think 3-5 years down the road at ALL times.
As for 5 on 5 scoring…if your in the top 15 of the NHL, you are absolutely fine. The issue with this team and scoring is the PP. Even with the PP, they get enough goals…the problem is, they don’t draw enough penalties, which means they aren’t working hard enough in the slot, in the dangerous scoring areas 5 on 5.
Player-X Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 10:04 am
@Mr Brett 7-
Re Stoll debate as “true second center”, we disagree- did you see this exchange between myself and Cynic? Go to link and use “find on this page” to search for Player-X or Cynic, it was a real fun debate and may be persuasive to you now.
http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/01/27/open-forum-time-4/#comments
I mean, I see that long-term the idea is for Schenn and Lokti to step in, but my point is, it is way too early to decide that now, and as well if Stoll were to continue to put up the same numbers he has this season, the only realistic expectation for a replacement would be to get nearly as good numbers for a lot cheaper. Check out the link, lemme know.
LW Anybody? Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 11:12 pm
@mrbrett7, Chris Stewart, power forward winger, traded in conference from colorado to st. louis. You asked for an example, there you go.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:39 am
@LW Anybody?, Okay…
The Kings trade: Jack Johnson and Wayne Simmonds to the Colorado Avalannche for Chris Stewart.
Still making that trade? That’s a “like” trade.
HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:55 pm
@hip-check, We ALL want the Kings to put the best possible team on the ice they can. Yes, even DL.
And of course you have a right to your opinion.
And I have a right to point it out if I think you are wrong.
Your exact words above are “Why can so many other teams make THE DEAL and improve and the Kings can not?”
We are pointing out that the first part of the statement is NOT true.
And actually, the second part has not been decided. We will see.
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Wait. wait. Loktionov got sent back to Manchester? =)
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HockeyNerd Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:20 pm
@Lime, LOL
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@Lime, Funny! But our losing steak is at 2 i hope someone steps up soon can you imagine this blog if the team misses the playoffs.
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Lime Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:16 pm
@Bkrs-Bud, With 200+ GMs commenting on this blog we should be just fine =)
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Bkrs-Bud Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 10:15 pm
@Lime, Lol
Lokti will be back. Sorry to keep saying it. We have got to see what Strum can do. I’m pulling for him, just like any player who puts on our jersey. We need points and our veterans are the ones who have been there. These next few games are huge for us. We have got to keep our edge. The ducks are not going to just lay down. We are going to have to fight for space and hit them hard. We still have to prove to the So Cal fans that we are the team now that rules the So Cal market. Everyone is not sold on our Kings just yet. We still have hockey fans that don’t believe that we are for real. It’s like the club is on an island and the only ones that will save them will be themselves. We don’t get the respect yet, we have to earn it. If our time has come, then it’s time to show it. This last road trip showed us that we have some big time heart, but we all know how this team has been hot and cold this year. I’m not waiting for the shoe to drop. we can’t afford to do that now. These next 3 games will tell us a lot about who we are as a team. Do we come out flat or will we have our edge still. It all starts vs the Ducks…….
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Lime Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:04 pm
@kinginsaltlake, lol Ducks games get broadcasted on channel 19 when the Kings are playing. There is no mystery about who has the bigger market. You will not catch a Kings game anywhere else but FSW, Versus, NBC or NHL network unless there is some sort of blackout. However I think every game this season has been telecast so far.
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Lime Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
@Lime, Sorry when the Kings and Lakers/Clippers play at the same time. And have you seen that video feed? Reminds me of the 90′s and I don’t mean late 90′s.
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kinginsaltlake Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@Lime, I don’t know anything about channel 19. I’m in Salt Lake. I just feel that there are more Duck fans in So Cal then King fans. Am I wrong? please let me know. What team rules the So Cal market? I’m a Kings fan. Bought Center Ice just to see all of the Kings games. I never watch the Ducks. Could care less that they won a cup. Ducks mean 0 to me. They are just another team in our way. All I really care about is points and if we can get 2 vs Ducks then great.
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Lime Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:19 pm
@kinginsaltlake, Right there with ya. I remember reading an article a while back that said teams in markets with larger teams have been struggling. In the list of teams that had this problem they included the ducks, the islanders and the devils. Ya I don’t see too many ducks stickers/license plate covers or any paraphernalia often. Last time I was at the pond 40% of the fans in attendance where kings supporters. I believe most people know who the good guys really are out here.
kinginsaltlake Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:23 pm
@kinginsaltlake, Thanks Lime Good to know that the Kings are tops in So Cal
Player-X Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:27 pm
@kinginsaltlake, just check the attendance stats, Ducks are having trouble selling tix
I’m sure there is more to loktionov move…but to say the reason was bcuz he got exposed in just one game it doesnt make sense..*t one point he was playing and producing more than kopi and brown!!! Send west down..we dont need him..we have simmonds and clifford to do the fighting!
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:41 pm
@namedmysonANZE&AKI, Calgary, Minnesota, NYR, Philly…those are the few that come to my mind. Any play along the boards…any physical play. He was exposed.
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As much as I was puzzled by Lokti being pulled for NYI, I find it humorous at the lack of logic that some folks show here. In several other comments that deal with a ‘future look’ of the Kings centers, its almost unanimous that its Kopi-Schenn-Lokti-4th. Everyone that is screaming that Lokti is the offensive answer are the same people that put him in a third line role ‘in the future’. That’s just funny.
That isn’t to diminish his efforts over the last three weeks, but to take his situation in a vacuum is just silly. Sturm is ready to go and our current need on this team this year is a productive first line left wing. Lokti didn’t do that. Putting him at center takes Zeus out of his natural role. And Lokti can come back in ten days with the roster expansion. I believe TM is looking at the team as a whole and, currently, that leaves the young kid as the odd man out. And frankly, the NYI game was a case of the entire team looking longingly at the plane ride home more than anything else.
I don’t think TM has done everything right, but neither am I going to ignore the big picture for the sake of a 19 year old center who was getting beat positionally frequently. I would still rather win 2-1 with good sound defense then lose 6-5 just for the sake of some offense.
Now, if you want to talk about the leash being much too long for Doughty this year, I am right there with ya….
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number 6 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
@Davhalt,
Agreed. Well written. And I would bet that if TM was showing us a video of the Rangers game and pointing out where coverage broke down that either easily could have led to a Rangers goal, or did lead to one – stuff that we wouldn’t have picked up, I wouldn’t be surprised.
And, yes, I know that a bunch of other guys made mistakes in that game, but I don’t see them sending down Doughty (even though they couldn’t anyway) because he made mistakes. Not really the same thing, is it?
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Tony Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:15 pm
@Davhalt, excuse me but did we lose 6-5? i dont remember that and if i missed it I’m certain it was lokti’s fault. this whole string is insane. We need Lokti and other skill players in this line up. he adds another top six forward so we have one less third or fourth liner playing on the top two lines. so its kind of domino effect. he fills in a top six role and then we have a better third line or fourth line. anyways, honestly i love the players on this team but we can’t go very far with 12 character/gritti/smart players. We need some guys that can put the puck in the net or at least threaten to every time they are on the ice. TM and DL do not value skill enough. PERIOD
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Davhalt Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:24 pm
@Tony, I don’t disagree with you in terms of needing skill players in the line up. But everyone agrees that he didn’t excel until he moved back to center and putting him there broke up other lines which, in my opinion only, screwed with the chemistry of the lines. Lokti can only be on the ice one shift at a time and I would love to see him playing and I wished he could do what he was doing in a left wing role, but the fact is he didn’t. And yes, I know we won several games on the road trip with lokti in the line up, but we did it with shut down defense and several of those games Lokti ended up riding pine in the third period. And for completeness sake, 6-5 was just an example as it seems that everyone is expecting him to pot 20 goals by the end of the season. As for TM and DL not valuing skill, I don’t agree, they just value skill within the system and like it or not, that system is defense first with the Kings. I am not arguing his skill or your desire to see Lokti in the lineup. I am only saying that I don’t disagree with sending him down because he doesn’t quite fit. Giving Sturm a chance to come in and fill the spot we actually need filled right now only makes sense.
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Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:46 pm
@Davhalt,
I like your attitude. You dont seem to pout that someone needs to be fired every time there’s an element that’s struggling. You logically dissect things and make sense of them. You seem to understand that there are ebbs and flows to a hockey season. For whatever (if anything) it’s worth, I respect your opinion and posts.
Other than the Doughty comment to close your other post. But hey, no one can agree on everything.
wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:52 pm
@Davhalt, Sturm will not fill the spot. That’s just the way it is. No one should expect so either. He simply needs time to get that knee back in top shape. It is almost unheard of to be a threat this soon after that kind of surgery. The NHL is littered with example after example of this truth. It’s a pipe-dream to put our hopes on a Bure-type recovery.
“I would still rather win 2-1 with good sound defense then lose 6-5 just for the sake of some offense.”
The idea that Lokti was a defensive liability is, I believe, is a total fabrication and completely not supported by the numbers. Taking all the stats into account, he is at (or near) the top in all defensive categories.
Dave's a Killer Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:20 pm
@Tony, Wasn’t this covered by about 10,000 posts earlier? Anything new to say?
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:28 pm
@Dave’s a Killer, Such an exaggerator! It was only like 400+ comments. LOL
kinginsaltlake Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@Davhalt, Very well said!!!!!!
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@Davhalt,
Sadly, Sturm ≠ “productive first line left wing”
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Davhalt Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:32 pm
@wavesinair, Neither was Lokti
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Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:47 pm
@wavesinair,
I’m not sure we know that yet. I know he’s not a long term solution, but I think he can be productive for us when 100%
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@Action, I agree…that will be around Thanksgiving next season.
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:01 pm
@wavesinair,
You may be right….but as a Kings fan, I hope you aren’t.
jet Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Hey waves, how do we really know? he played 14 heathly games. his projected stats for a season would be 23 goals, 23 assists and a plus 30. And this was in limited minutes (4 of 14 games with > 14 minutes)for most games. do not throw this one away yet.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:18 pm
@jet, There’s no way to be 100% sure but if you consider past performances by players with the same surgery, then you can bet he won’t be 1st line effective. Sure, it’s possible, but highly unlikely. Quite frankly, it was a waste of time for DL to acquire him. People say we got him for nothing, which is true, but the time and effort and space he takes up as a member of the team hasn’t been worth it at all so far. Kinda like all that wasted time spent on another left winger…
mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
@Davhalt, Could not agree more!
Although I think it’s more like Kopitar, Lokto, Schenn, Lewis myself…but that’s neither here nor there.
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Looking at the schedules over the next little bit, I think come two weeks from today the spread from 3rd to 11th (which is now 5pts) will only perhaps be out to 7 pts, so that makes the next game against the Ducks and the following 6-game homestand crucial. Anything less than 5-2 will put the team in fighting-for-their-playoff-lives mode from then on till the end. Getting 10 pts over than span can put them within a point or two of the division lead and 3 or 4 pts into a playoff spot.
Calgary, the Kings, Anaheim and Nashville seem to have the best schedules over the next two weeks. Dallas really seems up against it with their schedule and might be the first to fall out of contention. The Sharks have a difficult 3-game trip starting tomorrow and winning a couple of those will pretty much cinch their spot as they will only have six more road games the rest of the way.
The Ducks are on a 7-game homestand too, and how they do over those games without Hiller will make or break their season.
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I’m sure there is more to loktionov move…but to say the reason was bcuz he got exposed in just one game it doesnt make sense..at one point he was playing better and producing more than kopi and brown!!! Send west down..we dont need him..we have simmonds and clifford to do the fighting!
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@namedmysonANZE&AKI, I’m not so sure Westy would be claimed off waivers, but that’s not a risk they’re willing to take. If he did get snatched up, we’d be without a true ruffian and TM would freak out.
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Lime Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:46 pm
@wavesinair, I think you mean TM would take on the part!
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ColoKingFan Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@Lime, that requires a show of emotion.
Lime Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:15 pm
@Lime, TM has a serial killer look in his eyes sometimes when he is really frustrated. I bet he could do some damage if he flew off the handle.
wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:26 pm
When he purses his lips, he reminds me of the Church Lady. The Church Lady would kick some serious but when she got mad.
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:48 pm
@namedmysonANZE&AKI,
One word: Waivers.
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jet Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@namedmysonANZE&AKI, do you really want your first line right wing and a 205 pound, nineteen year old to be enforcers against HWs?
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Nice to see that people are upset about Lokti being sent down and that the media is pestering Murray about it , that being said sending him down for now was the right call .. given the circumstances. I have no doubt that he will be recalled , he would be wise to use his time in Manchester to work on the weak parts of his game,, mainly on the defensive end.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
@royalmonarch, For the record, technically Murray didn’t and can’t send down a player. Pestering him for not playing him is fine, but not for the decision to go down.
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Among the varied reasons for taking Lokti out of the Islanders game..I just love this one…”we have to execute all of the details of the game.” Meaning that Lokti wasn’t executing important details.
It’s priceless how that particular need (execution) wasn’t followed by the entire team in that loss. What would have happened if Lokti was in that game doesn’t matter. What does matter is how horribly the rest of the team executed…you know…only the main thing TM expected from everyone playing.
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LomitaKingsFan Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@wavesinair, Very true. But the coach would not have known going in that the rest of the team would mis-execute the way they did for that game. He saw that Lokti was having some small problems with his game and looked at scratching him as a chance for him to watch from the press-box and form more of an idea on where he can improve.
That the rest of the team ended playing horribly I don’t think anyone could see coming. And Lokit, or no Lokti, that game was on the entire teams shoulders, not just one player.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@LomitaKingsFan,
I don’t mean to be harsh, this stuff just makes me laugh.
“He saw that Lokti was having some small problems with his game” He did? Where did he say that?
“…and looked at scratching him as a chance for him to watch from the press-box” Really? Where do you get that?
“and form more of an idea on where he can improve.” ROTFLMAO! Hilarious.
I love how people just make up stuff. Terry Murray never said anything of the sort. I see how a ton of comments on here are just pure fiction and have seemed to create a truth out of simple repetition as far as I can tell. If there are other quotes I don’t see, please post them. I could be wrong. But…
Murray’s main point was speed, which I think everyone basically forgot or didn’t read. “A little too fast,” and “coming too fast” is what he said. I think it’s obvious that TM was saying, while Lokti is scoring and hasn’t been the cause of any goals against, he was on the verge of being a liability.
The other thing TM made clear was the grueling nature of the trip, which means to me, he thought Lokti was getting tired and worn down. A combination of him getting a little slower while the pace of the games were remaining constant. So Lokti was scratched so he could rest. Apparently everyone need a rest.
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ColoKingFan Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@wavesinair,
Trying to make sense of TM’s roster management is an arduous task – sometimes it leads to make believe and wild speculation. Bottom line: TM always has to be doing something, if he were a GM the roster would turn over about every 3 weeks. He finally finds lines that are working then scraps them after an overtime loss towards the end of a long trip. I think I’ve actually read the phrase “line changes” on this site more than any other phrase.
CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:26 pm
@ColoKingFan, “Line Changes” More than “Play 60 Minutes”. I’d have to say they are at least equal, if not more for “Play 60 Minutes”. LOL
Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@wavesinair,
I don’t mean to oversimplify, but terrible games happen. Everyone was bad, and I believe everyone would have been terrible with 12 in the lineup as well.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:56 pm
@Action, I agree. That’s why I said it didn’t matter. TM singled out Lokti as being basically tired from the trip. He should have seen how others were affected also is what I think.
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Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@wavesinair,
Fair enough. But I think that relates more to TM being directly asked about Loktionov more than anything else. Could be wrong though.
wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:11 pm
When it’s all said and done (which it has been!) I think the bottom line is that TM made a mistake. No biggie. Everyone makes ‘em.
mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
@wavesinair, True, although you can’t send down an entire team.
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Player-X Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:45 pm
@wavesinair, I think the key phrases here were, “…starting to get exposed on system play” and, “There were three or four different looks that they had that were because of losing some coverage.” I guess the speed part you mentioned was in another set of quotes. My guess, and really we are just guessing, truth be told, but my guess is Murray saw some things that created danger and scramble from his linemates, specifically two bad passes to the middle of the ice in the defensive zone that were turnovers, and a situation where Loktionov ended up with Doughty next to the net, they were all alone in the D-zone, and a Ranger winger came in from the blue line with possession uncontested. This particular one the camera angle was handheld at ice level from the corner, I remember it clearly, and think it was the third period or else very late in the second. Lokti was just lost and alone, and a Ranger was alone with the puck and got off a shot from right at the top of the circle. The camera angle showed Doughty and Lokti swoop together down too low as if Lokti had over-pursued. But anyway, Lokti also lost nearly every battle on the boards across his entire stint, in either zone. He had some good pick-pocket moves, but he was not bodying guys effectively and had to reach a lot, too. Just what I saw, I am sure you saw other stuff that was good, as did I, but when Murray talks about coverage and system play, I think it meant bad outlet tries, weak board play, loose coverage mid-ice and some glaring misreads on coverage, over the many games, not just the Ranger game.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:16 pm
@Player-X,
I didn’t see TM say anything about system play. Exposed, yes, which was preceded by “a little heavy for him.” He also said Lokti was, “Very strong on his stick.” But that the game was, “just coming too fast for him.”
I think it was clear he was basically saying the kid was worn down and getting physically taken advantage of.
And that’s ok. If the coach feels that way then fine. If he thought that he was getting covered too many times by his teammates and that that would eventually be a liability, then ok, I’ll buy that.
But in this situation, I think the pros outweighed the cons. That’s the bottom line for me. The kid will continue to make errors and get rented like a mule. But I think he’s not going to learn much more in the AHL. I feel the same way about Moller too.
If they’re both just too small for the NHL, then well, I guess that’s that. But so far, I don’t think either of those players are in that category yet.
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Player-X Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 7:38 pm
@wavesinair, My dude, my man, the quote about system play is in this very thread, 5th line second paragraph of Rich’s article. I do not see anything here about being tired or things coming fast, I am sure he said it somewhere else that I missed, I don’t doubt you.
But anyway, he could have been saying both things, they fit together, like being tired you make mental mistakes, etc. I was surprised about the send-down until Sturm was confirmed as ready. At that point, you gotta give Sturm his spot, winger we need versus center we like, salary paid but unused, veteran versus youngster, waiver considerations with Lokti being the only risk-free moveable piece, and especially when you have the roster size changing so soon, too.
Watch for a long post I am working on, I got some numbers going that will show Murray’s worth, soon. This send-down was counter-intuitive in the micro, but in the macro, it was damn near unavoidable and makes sense, at least it does to me. Cheers, fun chatting.
wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 9:22 pm
LOL. That is too funny. I spent so much time commenting on this thread, I forgot what it said! I looked back at every other post, except this one, for quotes from TM. Classic. Now that I reread it, yeah, he said both things. He never mentioned the system a few days ago when he scratched him. Now he mentions it. I’m willing to be swayed in the Macro. I’ll look for the post…somewhere among the hundreds of comments…
Haven’t seen so many posts since the we were pursuing a particular Russian player.
Anyhow, although our problem is adding another offensive player, I think the bigger problem and ultimately what doomed us in last years playoffs is the Power Play. Before anyone says how great the PP was for the first 3 games against Vancouver last year, it was equally bad and was one of the reasons we got smoked three straight to end the series. If our PP was a top 10 power play this season, we’d likely be in first place and we wouldn’t be so upset about these moves. If the PP does not improve this season, it won’t matter if we trade for penner/hemsky. Bottom line is the PP is going to determine a big part of our success.
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bbb7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:33 pm
@demob, Exactly. Fix the PP! One slow guy in front of the net is enough!
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puck73 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:37 pm
@demob, Amen
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DesertKing Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:57 pm
@demob,
Thank you, the best post I have read all day! 3 PP goals in the last 10 games (minus the 1 shorthander we gave up) will not get it done in either the regular season or play-offs. The posters and the experts agree that the problem is the system/strategy rather than the players, so I concur that getting just any winger will not save everything, but getting a top 6 LW would definitely help the 5 on 5 play.
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CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:30 pm
@demob, Agree about the PP. I think we’d still be just as upset about all these moves, we just wouldn’t post it because everyone would say ” Relax dude, we’re in 1st place in the division.”
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ColoKingFan Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@demob, something about russians and this site… really gets the hits up.
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Everyone knows there is a bigger picture to Lokti going down. He is exposed to waivers if they keep him up, and the Kings can lose him for essentially nothing. They are protecting him until they have a permanent spot for him. I finally agree with one of DL’s moves. Now lets see if they have the sack to sign someone worthwhile.
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:57 pm
@Alan21,
“He is exposed to waivers if they keep him up, and the Kings can lose him for essentially nothing.”
Huh? What do you mean. He is waiver exempt.
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Action Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 4:58 pm
@Alan21,
It’s not about protecting Loktionov, it’s protecting everyone else. He’s the only one we can send to Manchester without exposing to waivers, so he’s in essence “pre-protected”. But you’re right about wanting to wait for a more permanent spot for him.
Hope that helped the waiver confusion.
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the ESPNLA Kings blog had this quote that I found hilarious: “Murray also did some tweaking to the second and third lines, breaking up the most productive and stable combination this season.” Sums things up nicely. And while I see the logic in the Lokti move, the team was 13-3-3 with him in the lineup, so I do NOT see the logic in benching him for Westgarth in the NYI game. Also, with Sturm in the lineup the Kings average 2.8 goals, up from the 2.5 with Lokti in the lineup (clearly some sampling bias here).
As for the trades, Kings could get Kovalev for a song (and by song I mean roughly a 2nd round pick); and while I realize the contract is bad and he hasn’t been productive lately, he IS talented and an expiring contract – could add some firepower on the cheap and let him walk if it doesn’t work out.
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CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:36 pm
@ColoKingFan, This is what they said after the NYI game. “BAD MOVE: Kings coach Terry Murray elected to tag rookie forward Andrei Loktionov as a healthy scratch and play enforcer Kevin Westgarth, even though Loktionov had three points in the last four games.”
I like that they are allowed to say bad things about TM. It seems like Rich doesn’t have the freedom to express his thoughts freely about the team. He’ll disagree with some things, but not really say specific instances.
[Reply]
Rich Hammond Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:45 pm
You’re right. If only there was a blog feature in which I fielded any and all questions about the Kings and gave specific opinions about every single thing asked. Maybe we could call it “Open Forum” and do it every month or so. Nah, it would never work.
I never stop being amazed…
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Player-X Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:48 pm
@Rich Hammond, Don’t let them see frustration, Rich, it will inspire them! (In this one, you didn’t even need a “sarcasm font.”)
Rich Hammond Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Point well taken.
Player-X Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:53 pm
@Rich Hammond, A stick to the calf on a line change, works wonders. LMAO.
DesertKing Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:38 pm
@Rich Hammond,
I guess there are some people who still don’t understand that you have a contract which allows you to report what you deem important without interference from management. Whatever you do, don’t tell any of them that you are not a King’s fan!
CB14 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 7:32 pm
@Rich Hammond, I didn’t mean to be rude Rich, I appreciate everything you do on this blog. I have only been following this blog fully since early december, and thought the open forum was a once a year thing. I did some research and boy was I wrong. I really enjoyed reading your opinion’s of the Kings in the open forum. The only reason I made that comment was because I wish we could get more of your opinion’s on all things Kings related. I would love to know what you think about the Kings sending down Lokti? If you don’t want to answer, no problem. Sorry if I upset you, didn’t mean to. Keep up the great work!
mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:43 pm
@ColoKingFan, I would touch Kovalev with your pole…
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ColoKingFan Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:54 pm
@mrbrett7,
o.O
LOL! would or wouldnt? and is my pole of the ten foot variety?
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:50 am
@ColoKingFan, Oh crap…damn typo’s! I meant wouldn’t!
@Action,
Not sure why this appeared twice….
Damn iPhone.
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All (most) of you guys are crazy.
Terry Murray is an NHL coach. He made a good point and if he keeps getting exposed, [team] points aren`t going to come.
Plus like he said, he`s a phone call away
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wavesinair Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
@kevin from toronto,
Actually, Terry Murray didn’t make a good point at all. Lokti wasn’t a liability. You nailed it on the head though with your other point. TM is an NHL coach. Totally agree.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:44 pm
@wavesinair, Same system your god Dave Tippet runs…just sayin’…
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iceguy Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@kevin from toronto,
Terry Murray is an NHL coach whose approach to the game and “system” were used by the NHL in the 1990s.
Last I checked it’s 2011.
He probably still uses a DayPlanner rather than an iPhpne.
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kevin from toronto Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 7:00 pm
@iceguy, because you would make a better coach in the best hockey league in the world, right?
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kevin from toronto Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 7:03 pm
@iceguy, that’s the way the team is built though. traffic in front of the net, rebounds and tough goals. we all know the Kings aren’t the most skilled team, so why act like one?
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iceguy Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 8:46 pm
@kevin from toronto,
Am I a coach? No. Don’t claim to be one. However, I do have some experience in managing groups of workers (30 – 50) in a high pressure, time dependent, results orientated business. To accomplish the task you either make sure you have the right workers with the specific skills you need to make your particular and/or preferred method of operation succeed, or, you have to adapt your management style to optimize the skills of the workers you have.
In my business, your “system” comes in second to your results. It’s a fair statement that any NHL club is interested more in results than slavish adherence to a “system”. Nothing stays the same. Business, materials and approaches to problem solving continually evolve, and those who can adapt survive.
My point about Murray is two fold. If his preferred “system” is anchored to the Power Play we have seen all year, the SS Kings is sinking. If his preferred offensive style is dump and chase, that style now works only if you have fleet forwards who can dump and beat the D-man to the puck. But, today, defensive players are not only bigger, but faster, thus negating the advantage of that system.
When the Kings play a team with speed, it is Murray’s “system” that is exposed. I think it was either the Flyers or Rangers game that Jim Fox showed a replay of our Power Play. There was one Kings player about 6 feet away from the net – and 4 all lined up across the blue line, each apparently wondering who was going to pass what to whom.
Murray’s answer to any problem with the team, and it’s scoring woes, is to continually change the line combination. That’s not coaching, it’s hoping.
And, yes, I could probably do the hoping as well as Terry Murray at this point.
mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:52 am
@kevin from toronto, This is for iceguy…
In the NHL…you don’t play your system, your dead. Why? If everyone isn’t on the same page, playing the same system, the entire “beast” dies.
BobKnob Reply:
February 23rd, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@mrbrett7,
Playing to a “system” is fine, but they need to work on their system and make it better, because it sucks right now. You can both change/alter/improve your system and also have all players on the same page.
Three days in a row posting here. This is getting worse than FB. So TM, he played great and, because of mistakes in a tough back to back game against the Rangers, you decide to sit him even though the Kings salvaged a point! Then he doesn’t play against the Isles, you lose, and then he’s a phone call away across the country in Manchester, N.H. The team is 13-3-3 with him in the lineup. Now that’s great coaching. People ask me who I would pick to coach the team instead. One choice, and he would be great if it ever happened. Luc Robitaille. By the way Rich, if you keep ignoring my requests to be a guest on my daily radio talk show, I’m going to have to start trashing you as a stuck up snob a la Heidi Androl.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@Poorman, Minnesota, Calgary, Philly, NYR…and those are just the one’s that I remember.
It wasn’t just one game.
Why does EVERYONE take every single darn quote so damn literally? I hate this new world…
(note, this wasn’t just aimed at poorman)
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Player-X Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 5:52 pm
@mrbrett7, damn straight, it was many times over many games. Score, yes, lose puck on boards, yes, lose and/or play loose coverage in middle of ice, yes, and risky outlet passes from boards, yes. Loktionov is what, 19? Forgiveable, yes, but during a playoff race tighter than any in NHL history? Ummm, minimizing risk is fine with me.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:54 am
@Player-X, Sometimes people only see a score, and don’t see the rest of the game.
Maybe because I’ve played defnese for 25+ years, and score a goal once in a millenium, I see the game differently.
puck73 Reply:
February 21st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
@Poorman, Hey Jimmy Trenton, why would you suggest Luc Robitaille as a coach? Do you know something that we dont ? Here’s a question for ya…How did Magic Johnson work out as Laker coach ? My point is, just because somebody was a star player, that doesnt mean they will automatically be a great head coach. Ya know what..I think I am going to have start giving everybody the skinny on this site about what “Really” went on at that house on 26th street if you continue to make posts like this.
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Poorman Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 3:41 am
@puck73, let em know puck 73. I’d tell em myself except we’d both get banned from our favorite Kings blog hahahah. How do you know Luc wouldn’t be a good coach? BTW, email me. We should talk sometime as fellow Kings crazies! Just thinkin’, I interviewed Lappy and Dan Bylsma several times at a radio station called Groove when I did the morning show. Lappy was 23. Both guys were good dudes. They invited me into the locker room after games. It was great! I wouldn’t have ever dreamed that Bylsma would become a Stanley Cup winning coach. Just sayin’, I have a git feeling Luc would be an incredible coach.
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Maybe Terry Murray could have a few talks with the man who is reportedly Loktionov’s mentor
and pro-hockey “father-figure”–Igor Larionov.
Larionov might have some ideas for how to improve the Kings’ puck-movement and breakout system.
Igor might have additonal suggestions for offensive options to adapt to our own
“home-plate”0based system.
I’d love to see Igor come on and run a bunch of workouts and high-speed passing drills with the
King’s players in camp and exhibition season, and perhaps beyond.
Larionov would make a great consultant-type to outsource to for offensive ideas and precision-work.
probably never happen, due to egos and such.
Kings could use it though.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:55 am
@Sergei Prozacutov, Actually, Sergei…I love this idea. In fact, if the Kings were to fire Murray at any point, I would love to see Sergei as the coach. I don’t think there is a single man on this planet who knows more about a puck control game than Igor Larionov.
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Cristobal Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 10:04 am
@Sergei Prozacutov,
I’ve been saying this for 3 years.
I don’t know if Igor is at all interested, but I really wish we would have brought him in when Hardy left a spot open.
I can’t help but believe it would help our attack and PP.
Maybe, however, TM doesn’t have the type of personality to get on with an a possession minded Russian.
Plus, letting Frolov walk indicates possession and Russian ways aren’t the priority.
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13-3-3 with Loktionov in the line-up says it all.
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Poorman Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 3:46 am
@Peter32, Agreed. Said it in my post. The record speaks.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:56 am
@Peter32, 5 of those games he was benched in the 3rd period because of his inability to keep up with the physical nature of the game.
There is more to hockey than statistics.
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Nothing like folks who have never donned skates, let alone coached, telling Terry Murray his reasons for sending Loktionov back to Manch are invalid. Andrei even understands them. Ridiculous.
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mrbrett7 Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 8:57 am
@harglebargle, Slow clap…raising to a faster one…then going faster, then finally to a full on cheer.
Terry Murray has forgotten more about hockey than everyone around here knows…combined.
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ColoKingFan Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 9:04 am
@harglebargle,
I’ve never been the president either.. doesn’t mean I don’t have a right to “peaceably assemble” when he does something I don’t like. And for the record, I have “donned skates,” though admittedly never at the professional level and not in some time. It’s ridiculous to assume that because I’ve never done something professionally I can’t have an ardent opinion on it.
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ducksuck Reply:
February 22nd, 2011 at 4:53 pm
@harglebargle, I’m not going to make this long like I usually do when I post all I will say is this is the 2nd time I personally have disagreed with mangement. Schenn and Loktionov both I feel have way more than enough skill to be in the NHL and on the LA Kings roster. The team lacks scoring and both players I feel bring that to the team. O well, back to Sturm and 2 d men and one enforcer..
Also to harglebargle,I assume you play for the NHL rite??? Because if you play roller hockey or at a local ice rink like I do and many others I’m sure doesn’t mean you are better than the fans that have followed this team for years. My dad can’t skate for $&^@, but he has watched this team back when Rogie played. Also many of the fans on the Kings insider say crap cause they think it is as easy as a video game, but it wouldn’t be a great game if the same team’s always won, wait there is a tream that already does it every year. They are called the Red Wings… Key to that team is mamngement. Ok i lied another long post from me. GO Kings!!! Go TM and DL both are great at what they do and don’t give up on this young team, most exciting team in the NHL:)!!!
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I don’t buy what Murray says anymore. Dean Lombardi is not too far behind.
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How could Loktionov be sent down when u r having trouble scoring as it is? He will most probably turn out to be a Matt Moulson or Brian Boyle. Just another good goal scorer being over analyzed by the Kings instead of using him for the talent he has. ALL players have some hole in their game.
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Murray stop blowing smoke up our butts. Loki gave a 100% everytime he hit the ice. He just started to get more comfortable with the system, when you burst his bubble by sending him back down. You prove to me that you don’t know what you are doing. You used Kopi in one of the shootout’s when this guy could not find the net all night. I don’t exactly know how many penalties this team has taken for having too many men on ice, but I know its quite a few. And that falls entirely on you as a coach. I can’t understand why the Kings keep you on, these kids will not play for you. Its time to bid you adieu, so you can go and screw up another team.
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