Matt Greene did not return to last night’s game after the end of the first period, and after he appeared to be a bit wobbly on the ice after a collision with Detroit’s Niklas Kronwall. After the game, in the locker room, Greene said he was fine, and Terry Murray also said Greene was fine. What happened? Today, Murray said it was the Detroit team doctor who examined Greene and recommended that he not return to the game. Murray said Greene is OK today and isn’t going to miss any time. Murray talked about the odd-seeming series of events, and also gave an update on Rob Scuderi, who left last night’s game in the third period after having his mouth severely bloodied by a high stick…
Question: Did you get any more clarity on the Matt Greene situation?
MURRAY: “Their team doctor felt concerned. He, basically, was the one who made the call and said (Greene) should be pulled out. Kinger [Kings trainer Chris Kingsley] is talking to him, and obviously Kinger is consider also, just with the way (Greene) finished that shift. He was kind of hanging onto the crossbar for a little while, to get himself stabilized again and come back to the bench. It was out of precaution only. He’s fine, he’s good. I got an update here today, and everything is good. He’s ready to go and will be in the lineup against St. Louis, and on the ice tomorrow for practice.”
Question: Is that the standard procedure on the road, to follow the advice of the home-team doctor?
MURRAY: “When you’re in the regular season, the visiting teams are covered by the home-team doctor. So you rely on, and trust, their judgment. It was on the side of caution. So we listened, and he came out OK on the other side and we won the game. He’s good to go.”
Question: And Scuderi is OK today?
MURRAY: “Scuds is good. He was with Kinger this morning. They met here in the lobby and they went to the St. Louis team dentist and had some observation and, I think, some X-rays taken, just to make sure everything was OK on that part of it. The update I have is, he’s clear. No issues, no problems, other than the cut itself. It was a pretty severe cut, 20-plus stitches, but that will heal and he will get through it.”
The Detroit team doctor trying to effect the outcome of the game?
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OCDUCKHUNTER Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
@Dan SanDonkey, LOL thats what i was thinking!! but Greene did look scary after that hit. He couldnt really keep his legs under him at first.
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hockey junkie Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@Dan SanDonkey, that is exactly what i was thinking! Didn’t work though !!!
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OneTimer Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
@Dan SanDonkey,
“It was on the side of caution.”
Nothing to see here … move along.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
@Dan SanDonkey,
Greene was visibly wobbly on the ice, so the doctor probly erred on the side of caution. Knowing that Greene didn’t have surgery earlier than he did on his shoulder is a telling thought to keep in mind when you ask him how he is doing. Is he a warrior or just doesn’t know when he’s hurt worse than he thinks? It’s good to be safe, cuz we aren’t in the 50′s anymore and should be cautious. If we knew then what we know now, maybe Deadmarsh could have played longer with a better understamding of concussions.
Be safe, Greene, we’d like to keep you for a while!
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Shakes Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
@Dan SanDonkey,
…which means that the Kings doctors have probably been consulted in the past whether an opposing player should sit out during one of our home games
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markisonfire Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
@Dan SanDonkey, What happens if the Detroit doctors allow Greene to play with a possible concussion and subsequently gets seriously injured. Then everyone on here would be saying how negligent the Detroit doctors were and how they ruined Greene’s season. It was a precaution and everything turned out okay. It was the Detroit doctor’s suggestion, he didn’t make Murray keep him out. It was his professional opinion that he should not play.
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Good to know both Scuderi & Greene are ok & are going to play against a tired ST Lous team on thursday. GO KINGS GO.
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I'm Just Saying" Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
@mike, Yes you are right..without them our opponents shot attempts could go up….UP? 70-80
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Detroit Red Wings evil plan – epic fail!
Glad both guys are OK (although I personally don’t consider 20 stitches ok – ouch!)
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Sebastian Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
@Lilly, seriously man…specially in the mouth. probably will have to drink his dinner through a straw. i wonder if he will wear any kind of shield
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Lilly Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
@Sebastian, That was my first thought too – how would I be able to eat and drink! Guess we know where my priorities are.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
@Lilly,
He’s probably gonna have a steak and not give a damn. Hockey players just don’t have the same pain threshold as normal humans!
mcsorleyfan Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
@Sebastian, My cut would be frequently sterilized… I, too, enjoy Jameson…lol
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
@mcsorleyfan, hahahaha, me too! every one talks about the 3 wise men(jack, Jim, and Jose) but Jameson is my go to guy!
nocturn Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@Sebastian, Yeah! Liquid diets arent so bad! Heck, I drink my dinner in a bucket and thru ice cubes.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Let me share, first hand, that stitches in the mouth suck really badly. I had an issue with that about fifteen years ago, in which the doctor kept snagging mucous glands, and had to keep cutting me (seems I had to visit him something like four separate times, and got cut each time.) I arranged the subsequent sessions on Friday evenings so I could spend all weekend drunk to deal with the pain.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Postscript: If I’d known then what I did now, I’d have spent the weekend high on pot, not drunk. Pot works MUCH better for pain.
KC23 Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@Sebastian, Pfft.
Kopitar set the bar on this team regarding playing with stiches to the mouth. Kopitar’s seemed far worse and he came back out to play and won the first game shoot out for us Vs the Canunks.
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nocturn Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
@KC23, Yeah. That Glascow Smile healed in like 3 days. Its good to be young.
Sounds like some old Scotty Bowman hijinx! But MG did look like Bambi after the collision. He must have got rocked a little… Had we lost and our D looked totally gassed, we’d be making way more out of this… lol
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I seriously doubt that the doctor was trying to have any outcome on the game. There is a lot of new awareness and concern over concussions, and rightly so. Take a hit that makes you see stars, you may just be a little woozy. Take another comparable or worse hit right after, and suddenly you’re out for weeks, months, or forever.
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I'm Just Saying" Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
@Geoff, Matt Greene got the first second and third stars of the game unfortunately they were above his head and rotaing in a circular mnotion….Pesky Wabbitt
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Interesting situation…
Wonder how that would be handled in the playoffs?
I wonder what the criteria were that influenced the Detroit Doc’s decision? Aren’t these criteria standardized? In the case of a tie (Det Doc = No to playing, LA Doc = Yes to playing), how is the ultimate decision made?
Not a good day for the NHL concussion policy.
Rich, could you ask the NHL Office to respond to this situation? Clarity is a must, Methinks…
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Rich Hammond Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
The decision is ultimately up to the player’s team. In the playoffs, the visiting team would travel with its own doctor (the Kings did so in Vancouver last season). In the regular season, it’s just not feasible. So the home team has a doctor, and the visiting team simply has a training staff. And while the head athletic trainer has a medical background, he is not a licensed physician. So the home-team doctor will examine players from both teams, but it’s ultimately up to the team whether or not it will follow the doctors’ advice.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
@Rich Hammond,
Aaaaaahhhhh, so THAT’S why when I travel I don’t bring my own doctor along. I bring band aids……does that count?
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
@Rich Hammond,
…Which means the Kings trainer at least partially concurred with the Detroit team doctor.
Good. Caution is in the best interests of the player.
However, will there be a mandatory missed game as a result of that caution? A concussion is a concussion is a concussion… There is no ‘mild concussion’ or ‘severe concussion’. Is Greene eligible for St. Louis? Does the player need to pass the baseline test to be cleared, in this case?
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
Depends on if it is a concussion. I believe it has always been called an “upper body injury”, so we may never find out.
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@Kingsfanone,
But no matter what is released to the public, an official diagnosis must be made–one would assume–to the league.
There is no grey area allowed in the diagnosis of concussion. It is a yes or no proposition.
To circumvent that diagnosis would be a mistake. The protocol can only work if it is invoked in the proper clinical situation. Otherwise, the norm will be to say, “I’m fine,” and walk away to play that night.
Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
I completely agree with you, but I am saying we as the public may never find out. But yeah, the NHL concussion rules/policy must be followed or why have them?
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@Kingsfanone,
Methinks this may set a dangerous precedent.
Methinks the NHL should come out and say that Greene did not have a concussion–or, he does have a concussion.
Rich Hammond Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
I don’t want to speak out of turn on this, because clearly I have no medical background, but my understanding would be that the official diagnosis of a concussion wouldn’t come until after a game, or perhaps even the following day. My guess — and again, this is only my guess — is that a medical staff would evaluate a player and make the determination whether or not the player would be putting himself at risk by returning. In this case, as you said, the trainer at least partially agreed with the doctor, so they err on the side of caution. As it stands now, Greene isn’t missing a game, and there isn’t a concussion as far as I’m aware.
Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
@Rich Hammond
Your “take” will never be out of turn. Your even keel thoughts when the seas are rough and everyone is heading for the lifeboats is quite inspiring to this blog, and maybe an important reason why it is so popular. Thank you for your “takes” and insight.
You are the man!
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@Rich Hammond,
Perhaps you will end up being the one answering the question for them.
If they say what you just said, that ends it… Because then, the diagnosis is ‘NO CONCUSSION’.
I guess I’m a stickler for the formalities.
Thanks, Rich.
Rich Hammond Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
That’s why you’re good at what you do!
Hello all Kings fans. Don’t it feel good winning,life is just super today. Why is it after a Kings win that life seems to flow so much easier. Maybe it’s just that I know what my wife has gotten me for X-mas. Yes Kings fan the gift we all want—- A LA KINGS READING LAMP, yes I know your all jealous,but to bad god I love that woman. Greene is the Backbone for our club. We need him ready for the Blues game, But if he’s still dizzy better have him sit, we have more then ready d-men.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
@kinginsaltlake,
I am totally jealous of your LA Kings reading lamp! Lucky guy!
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VanKingsFan Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
@kinginsaltlake, haha classic. Only Purple and Gold lightbulbs in that thing!
A Kings win just puts me ain a good mood the rest of the day; or week; pretty much until the next game.
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I like that slight grin on Greener’s face as he smashes our foe into the boards… Thats classic
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Greene got his bell rung, slight concusion no doubt, as I said keep your head up as Detroit have two marginally dirty players….. Kronwall, Stuart both D men.
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Glad hes alright!
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Sounds to me like the KINGS have the final say in whether or not to follow the home team docters ‘advise’.
“So you rely on, and trust, their judgment. It was on the side of caution. So we listened”
I think if the game had been going differently, the KINGS may have their own docter make the judgment.
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KINGSfan Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
@KINGSfan, **advice**
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I like the caution. It’s silly to act like the red wings doctor was up to no good.
I for one wish everyone who’s had a hit to the head would wear the special Mitchell-style helmet, especially Doughty. I remember well that year wondering if Deadmarsh would ever return and not getting information until it was sure he wouldn’t. Seem to remember a similar situation and outcome with Jason Allison. I actually still don’t the details on Allison. Maybe someone can tell me.
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Jason4Kings Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
@Jason4Kings,
Still don’t know….i meant.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
@Jason4Kings,
I think Deadmarsh is still feeling some effects of his concussion, but I think he’s lucky he’s not a carrot right now. As for Allison, he may still not know exactly which planet he’s on.
Boy, if those 2 didn’t get hurt, that could have been a exceptional team.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@Kingsfanone, Guessing on the lines here…. Bad year… what could have been if those two stayed healthy
Palffy – Allison – Deadmarsh
Frolov – Smolinski – Armstrong?
Eloranta – Belanger – Laparriere
Chartrand – Johnson – Rasmussen
Cammalleri
Heinze
Schneider – Modry
Visnovsky – Corvo
Miller – Norstrom
Yushkevich
Lilja
Potvin
Storr
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USHA#17 Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
@Kingsfanone,
The Dearmarsh-Allsion team was pretty good. They would decided they wanted a goal and would go get it.
Allison was like bull, nothing stood between him and the net when he had his arm stretched ou like a running back.
It felt so typically LA when we lost one then the other.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
@USHA#17,
But it was quite exciting while it lasted!
Oh yeah! It was a conspiracy! And we need clarity because no one has thought this through at the league level but WE have discovered it here on this blog! And while we were at it, we figured out how DL should REALLY do his job, and how TM should REALLY coach the team, except we have about five THOUSAND variations on that last one. Plus, how messed up and fat our D-men are. I guess that shutout last night was just a fluke, huh? Or that we are third in the league in goals allowed? Well it’s a good thing we have you guys out there because the team obviously can’t get along without all this great advice. Rich, hope these dudes never decide to tell you how to do your job. Oh wait…that last guy just did!
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Very intresting, the whole thing sounds shady but will hope it was for the best intrestest of the player
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Interesting…
Ron Duguay, the Rangers TV Analyst, pretty much just sounded the Death Knell for the Fro’s career. To paraphrase, on NHL Home Ice, Duguay said the thought was Fro would be motivated, would work really hard, he was with Gaborik early in the season, then Gabby got hurt, Fro was demoted, he got upset–and now he’s out of chances and will likely be traded by the deadline or…
…Released?
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
But should we be surprised at all?
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
@Kingsfanone,
Nah.
Somehow, though, I hoped Fro would come through, like Brian Boyle did.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
Agreed. I always wanted Fro to succeed, but he is always getting in his own way. Boyle is a pretty pleasant surprise tho. But look how long it took for him to “get it”.
USHA#17 Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
@Kingsfanone,
IMO the problem with Fro was that the Kings made him lazy. The teams stepped it up and Fro didn’t. He never learned what it takes to win and was never willing to go to the tough areas and sacrifice for the team.
His latest marvel? Managing just 1 assist in the Rangers recent 7-0 rout.
For had his holiday in the sun and now, as I said before, his meter ran out.
club Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg, in Yekaterinburg Russia’s Yekaterinburg Sports Palace
Yekaterinburg, wonder how the wife will like that?
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launch Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
tough to hear that but I dont feel bad at all…..who knows what his issues really are?
let’s go by what we know from when he was here…..played hard and was rewarded, but only when he decided that he wanted to.
some games he was useless and he heard about it (ie the TM doghouse). demoted, scratched, etc.
now I know we all have bad days, but the issues with Fro are more than that. He is the only person that can answer why he comes to play (dominant at times) one day than is invisible the next.
good riddance
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The NHL version of the strength coach sticking out the knee.
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I don’t have much pity for athletes who get paid millions who squander their talent for complacency. Why even bother to be a professional at all? Look at Crosby. The guy works his butt of to be elite in every aspect of the game. Fro could take a lesson in work ethic.
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Thank you Rich …been waiting on This update..
You can only replay the video so many times ..the worry wort gene kicks in. The boys are like your children ..no matter what their She!
GO KINGS GO!!!
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Any doctor in his right mind makes the same call after seeing Greene in la la land after that hit. Nothing here, move alone.
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Not sure why we are talking about Frolov, however; while on the subject I can recall some clutch goals from Alexander that decided the outcome of some key games
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I would like to know what constitutes a 5 minute penalty after seeing Scuds coughing up blood last night, 20 stiches and lost about a liter of blood. I thought the 4 minutes was too light, they give that if any blood shows.
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In the Net Reply:
December 14th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
@luc20rules, if it’s deliberate, there’s a 5 minute major and at least a game misconduct is likely for intent to injure, if not a match penalty. It’s tough to determine intent though. I thought the high stick Brownie got in the Minnesota game was a better example, because the guy looked straight at Brown and then brought his stick up. Puck wasn’t near them. The Wild are a bunch of high-sticking mofos for sure, worse than any team I’ve seen since the Broad Street Bullies of the 70s. And maybe Glenn Anderson of the Oilers but that’s a whole other deal.
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Jeeze, you guys need some perspective. Any doctor worth their salt – and that includes anyone employed by a major sports franchise – is going to make decisions based on the health of the patient. Do you really thing they’re going to throw away their reputation, risk a lawsuit, ignore their sense of professionalism, or possibly break their Hippocratic oath, over a stinking hockey game?
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