A few quick hits… Jake Muzzin has officially been assigned to Manchester. Drew Doughty will return to his pairing with Willie Mitchell, with Rob Scuderi staying with Jack Johnson and Matt Greene joining Davis Drewiske. Scott Parse will indeed be the first-line left winger tomorrow, and Terry Murray won’t announce his fourth line until tomorrow morning. Jonathan Quick is scheduled to start in goal tomorrow, with Jonathan Bernier scheduled to get the start Saturday. More on all this, and more, to come…
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GKG!!!
Nuff said!
[Reply]
Thanks for the updates, Rich!
Looks like we’re getting the lines all shaped up after injuries/illnesses are healed.
A couple of games to get everyone moving and we can get on a serious roll.
gKg!
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That’s a pretty good looking defensive lineup.
It’s kinda hard for me to say this, but I think I’d like to see Harrold with Greene. I think he’s played surprisingly well and been better in the transition game than Drewiske. Plus, Greene is the big body on that pairing that can compensate for Harrold’s lack of size.
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Sebastian Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:16 pm
@GregDM, I’d like to see Murray alternate between Drewiske and Harrold…every few games, i think Harrold is equally as capable of filling that role, but his size definitely doesnt help him. He moves the puck much better than Drewiske
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friarking Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm
@Sebastian, I agree. I think Harrold doesn’t make the obvious mistakes that Drewiske sometimes has problems with.
[Reply]
FM3 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:51 pm
@GregDM, Gotta give some serious props to Muzzin, I think he played very well. If anyone slips up or gets hurt, I wouldn’t mind bringing back Muzzin in a heartbeat.
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SUCH a solid D corps. Even Green/Whiskey is solid (DD2 has been solid the last few games).
So how come Lewis wasnt mentioned in all of the rookie talks? Is it assumed he’ll be sent down? WIll he have to clear waivers or not? I’m surprised he’s still around.
Alternatively, if we sent all of them down, wouldnt we be a spot or two short on the bench? We’ve got to keep someone, right? As much as many of us want to see Westy go down, it’s not going to happen.
I think Shenn has the most potential to develop this year, but Clifford can have the most immediate impact (the Zeiler/Hansen Bros. type of hitting everything that breathes). I honestly think Cliffy and Westgarth can be interchangeable, though Cliffy is more versatile. And how come our enforcers the last few years have little-to-no talent checking (Drago, Westy)? Cliffy is my choice if he plays smart and every game like it’s his last. Keep Schenn and Cliffy and send Lewis back down.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 11:52 am
@Schoeny,
Yes, Lewis will have to clear waivers. He hasn’t had alot of gametime yet, but it should go up with another player getting sent down. At least for the time being, he’s our utility player.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:00 pm
@Schoeny,
Both Westgarth and Lewis would have to clear waivers to go back down. Lewis is valuable because he can play all three forward positions, and it’s doubtful that he would clear waivers.
Westy does play an important part on the team. I agree we haven’t really seen any of this year, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. That means that no one is taking liberites with our guys because they don’t want to get their jaw broken.
[Reply]
mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:10 pm
@Schoeny, DD2 has a bunch of Blocked Shots… and TM likes this.
[Reply]
nykingfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:27 pm
@Schoeny,
I think Lewis will stay up and be the healthy scratch most nights. There’s no way they will do that to Clifford or Schenn. they need ice time somewhere.
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We are looking strong..There is no stopping us right now. Some good months ahead here!
[Reply]
Michael_DD8 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 11:41 am
@Michael_DD8,
I should add years..too.
[Reply]
That’s a shame for Muzz. I still think he’s better than Whiskey (as do a number of people here I noticed), but I like still like Whiskey though.
Unfortunately, he is usually good for one really bad play at the wrong time per game, but now he’ll get a chance to eliminate that from his game.
I am also expecting the Monarchs to win a Title this year. If they don’t, then our evaluation of some of these players was wrong.
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
@Doc. Mark 1968,
Not wrong at all. Aside from the Kings being the youngest team in the NHL at 25.36. The Monarchs are the youngest team in the AHL at 22.19. If they even contend for a championship, the Kings will be vindicated.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:04 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968,
My only real concern about Muzzin is he seems to lack confidence with the puck. I keep hearing about this great shot he has but he’s never used it, and the few times he’s had a chance he’s passed the puch away.
[Reply]
Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:34 pm
@AZ King,
Yes, he does look young soemtimes but I wonder where his growth would be better served. I have no doubt that in the back of his mind, he’s thinking “I better make the safe play every time because I was only in juniors last year!”
The Ducks have decided that Fowler would be better served by staying up in the show. The ‘Hawks thought Leddy would be better served by going back down. I know DL’s philosophy about bringing players up; in that light, sending him down makes organizational sense.
I am a fan though of anyone who can make the leap that he has made so far. That’s why I’m such a fan of Dewey as well. Jeff Skinner is a non-King who is on fire right now.
@Dominick
I haven’t looked at team ages but we must surely be the youngest because The Oil keep old man Khabibulin around. I think he is seriously skewing their age curve.
I can’t wait to see the Stam-meister against the Kings. I only hope our old friend RJ doesn’t get the game winning goal!
Strange things happen!!
[Reply]
Dominick Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:42 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968, I hope JJ or DD blows right by him while he’s caught in the offensive zone.
I like most of what Murray is doing, but the top line has been juggled to death already. Kopi needs some consistency in linemates in order to fully shine. Richie somehow didn’t mesh well with Kopi and Brown after the Schenn/Lokti experimentation, but has shown that he can thrive with Simmonds on his opposite wing.
Hopefully Parse will settle in long-term well, but perhaps the Smyth/Kopi/Willy line isn’t too far off.
Lewis deserves some more 4th line minutes as he’s been working hard and playing well when given the shout.
Tough (but pleasant) decisions for TM and DL. – Do we have too many centers???
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:12 pm
@Cristobal,
Yes, we have way too many centers: Kopi, Stoll, Zus, Richie, Lokti, Schenn, Lewis, Moller…
The only reason I’m not hoping for Smyth-Kopi-Willie is because it means two things: Parse-Kopi-Brown failes, and Smyth-Stoll-Willie stops producing, both of which mean we’re probably losing some games.
I’m going to go the other way, I hope we don’t see Smyth-Kopi-Willie the rest of the year.
[Reply]
King John Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 8:10 pm
@Cristobal,
No, the first line hasn’t been juggled to death. Kopi and Brown have been together all year, and with Stoll’s line the way it’s been, we just needed to find a left winger for Kopi. Parse is the logical first choice, but he was injured, hence Richardson and sometimes Lokti getting time with him (they wanted to see what the rookie could do). So basically it’s Parse or Richardson or trade for a new left winger. I personally hope Parse makes the cut.
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I think dd2 has been way better then the muzz my 2 cents
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Kings fans need to pray to their chosen dieties that TM realizes that there is absolutely no sense in a talentless NHL enforcer any more.
Hard-nosed players that have skill will never engage with the enforcer after throwing their weight around. We saw that over Ivanans last 2 seasons and Westgarth has played 1/8 of the season, had zero fights, and has been nothing but a liability on the ice and by shortening the talent on the bench.
Time for that dinosaur to fossilize.
[Reply]
fsd1 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:15 pm
@Cristobal, wrong, wrong wrong…just watch the ducks sharks game, westie does exactly what he is paid to do.
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mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@Cristobal, luckily the Powers that Be realize Westgarth isn’t talentless. Given some playing time and extra work, Westy will prove to be the strength we need. Zero fights happens when you break a known enforcer’s jaw in the preseason. You apparently weren’t watching last year the few games when Ivan was out, and Westy hadn’t been called up yet. This stuff doesn’t make the highlight reels, and the “mood” in Staples is something you don’t pick up on on television. Essentially, our boys were getting killed. Run. Punked. 3-6-2009 Westy was called up. It stopped. Now, I’m not saying Westy can’t use some skills wqork outside of the pugilist disciplines. Obviously his skating and timing can use some improvement. But, as long as other teams have heavyweight enforcers, we need our own. And one way you know you have a good one is he doesn’t have to fight much, because he WINS. The thing that scares me most is if Westy goes down this season, folks may have to learn all of this the hard way- with one or more of our guys banged up. Clifford has heart, and I have a lot of love for the kid- he’s a gamer, to be sure- but he’s not 6’4 and 240, though his heart may be. Give Westy some time; he has under a dozen NHL games under his belt. I shudder to think what our guys would have to endure without him.
[Reply]
Stagger Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:55 pm
@mcsorleyfan,
Well said, as I would expect from someone with your screen name?
Although, I can imagine scarier things than Westy going down for the season.
[Reply]
jamesonafterawin Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:57 pm
@mcsorleyfan, Yup, If you actually watch the entire rink during a game… Westgarth will be the one out there in in the face of the other team when that other team is taking ‘shots’ at our team. And then it calms down.
And when he’s on the ice during issues, an issue has yet to develop.
Both Cliff and Garth have ‘said’ lets tangle, and it doesn’t happen.
Playing that part of their game and the game perfectly.
We don’t need players like Simmons in fights, scraps cool, not the fight ala last season.
Of course I’m a Mcsorley fan as well.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 6:33 pm
@Cristobal, Sorry. I think Westgarth is doing exactly what he has been asked to do and doing it well. You go against the Ducks, Calgary and Dallas you better have a Westgarth out there are you stars will get run.
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I like that Bernier is starting Sat…but I am concerned a bit at the same time!
Quick is on fire….needs to be in net…loves to be in every game….just not as much as last year.
Bernier also needs to get into a grove and face some shoots. I just hope that splitting the games up while beneficial to one…doesnt adversely affect the other!
That said I want to see both JQ and JB get the W’s
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Stagger Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@Sean,
You’re right, it’s tough to Get them both the work they need/deserve. Especially right now with only four games in two weeks.
[Reply]
Let’s see a 4th line of Richardson-Schenn-Clifford tomorrow night.
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number1fan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:01 pm
@KingTrojan, I couldn’t agree more! That line played fantastic the last time they were paired together and I would love to see if they can produce on Thursday!
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AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@KingTrojan,
That’s the line I’m hoping for too. That line is capable of playing some major minutes during the game.
[Reply]
Good to see Bernier get a start on Saturday, his first game of the year which isn’t part of a back-to-back. Looks like Terry Murray’s serious about splitting the PT and not over-using Quick this year.
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Kings Win, Ducks Lose Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:45 pm
@Kevin Y, +1
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I have heard it voiced before but I have to say it again. Westgarth is useless. He is supposed to be this physical enforcer type yet I haven’t seen anything physical nor anything enforcer. His play brings nothing to the table. Schenn is gonna be so good and it would help to surround him with some talent rather than some skill-less non-enforcer. Richy/Scenn/Clifford.
Go Kings
[Reply]
fsd1 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@Jerry Mitchell, it is because he is a physical enforcer that you dont see him fight much, he is doing his job fine, ask the guy with the broken jaw, word gets around.
[Reply]
Dan H. Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:40 pm
@fsd1,
Yeah ask Doughty how that deterrent worked. Didn’t work with Ivanans last year either.
[Reply]
Belexes Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@Dan H.,
New to the NHL?
jjdd Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:21 pm
@Dan H.,
Westgarth wasn’t dressed the night doughty got concussed. Maybe he might not have?
Dan H. Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:36 pm
@fsd1,
Seeing as Doughty was targeted all season until he was concussed I don’t think it would have deterred one thing.
[Reply]
BringBackTheShieldJersey Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:19 pm
@Dan H., And all you people arguing in favor of icing an enforcer who has limited hockey skills, MUST address what Dan H. says. Doughty has been run at ALL SEASON LONG and no enforcer has done anything about it. So if you want an enforcer on the ice, he dam well better do something about it. Otherwise the Kings’ 4th line remains an absolute wasteland.
How about we try:
Smyth-kopi-brown
Parse-stoll-Williams
Poni-zues-simmer
Cliff/westy-schenn-richie
I don’t know if the top 2 lines are ideal, kopi-smyth have chemistry, and now as well as stoll-Williams.
Just think we should spread out the chemistry a bit – as it is easier for a new forward to conform to two others rather than trying to get all three to click at once.
And kopi-brown are not there yet.
[Reply]
fsd1 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm
@Ari, parse is getting time on the first line, no reason to break up lines 2 and 3.
[Reply]
Good Grief!
Is this really the same organ-eye-zation I’ve been a fan of for 31 years now? Prospect loaded, youngest team in the league and near the top of the NHL food chain, Difficult decisions as who to keep opposed to who to fill holes….
If I’m dreaming, leave me the @#$%^ alone!
[Reply]
Maybe this belonged here:
OK, I know I’m not the only one who is thinking it, yet nobody else has said it (unless I missed it in which case I apologize) BUT how many games go on before Parse becomes the new TR/MM? He’s been the model of inconsistency and he’s extremely fortunate that our first line hasn’t clicked yet. I understand that he needs to get his sea legs under him (3-7 games) and then there’ll be no excuse. After 30 games the Parse experiment should reach a conclusion, one way or another, and so will DB being on the first line…
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fsd1 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:27 pm
@Stuart, He hasn’t played this year how can you rule him inconsistent? Did he not have the highest +/- on the team last year being played sparingly?
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Belexes Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@fsd1,
Because he played last year, thats why. He played sparingly because he was inconsistent, resulting in several benchings. He also did zero during the playoffs in 4 games.
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Stuart Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:59 pm
@Belexes, Amen! All I’m saying is that Parse might be our answer to the question. And by the 30 game point, we’ll know if he answers any of our questions…
Stuart Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:01 pm
@Belexes, I meant to say “Parse might NOT be our answer”
AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:35 pm
@Stuart,
I’m guessing you mean TP? Parse been as inconsistent as every first year player is (Schenn and Cliffofd haven’t been any better). I don’t know what you mean about him being very lucky the first line hasn’t clicked.
How about you cut the guy a break and instead of assuming he’s going to be a failure.
[Reply]
KC23 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 6:37 pm
@AZ King, Parse was several times better than Schenn this year and at least twice as good as Clifford.
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mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@Stuart, he’s not played a game yet… you are the only one thinking it. DB is tied for most goals with JW thus far, as well. So I hope you’re not suggesting he doesn’t belong on the 1st line… Actually, not sure… what did you mean??
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm
@ all, maybe I am the only thinking it, but Parse isn’t 19 and wasn’t last year either. I’m not assuming he’s going to be a failure, I’m assuming he’s going to remain inconsistent.
And what I mean about him being lucky that our fisrt line hasn’s clicked is this: players have moved in and out of our first line several times now (after only 11 games) so a spot is there for him to take and keep, IFF he proves me wrong (which I very much hope) and plays a solid steady CONSISTENT game.
+/- is a very deceiving stat, so I won’t even tender that notion.
I did mean TP, thanks.
And lastly, it’s been well discussed how poor of a passer/line player DB is. He well might be tied for team lead in goals, but how many on the PP vs even strength? Still too much one-on-one moves/plays for my liking when we (usually) AK out there with him. Too many flubbed or rocketed (not very accurately I might add) passes in our own zone, too. I love DB but he isn’t a 1st liner, at least not with the talent/finesse that we should be puttin out on our top line.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@Stuart,
My only responce to him being lucky is, all the first movement has essentially been because TM was waiting for Parse to come back.
Stuart Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@AZ King, and maybe you’re right. After all, the best place for a talented player to shine would be beside the most talented players on a team. So if Parse can’t make it there, he can’t/won’t make it on our team. So if I were Parse, I would see that they’re giving me all the rope that’s necessary to dance from the end off…
mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:21 pm
@Stuart, DB is the banger type making more room for AK and Parse, who is expected to be the sniper here. Of course we all hope he matures like we hope he will; but there we hope to see those 3 elements- playmaker, gritty front of the net guy, and sniper. We shall see. I wouldn’t mind seeing a modern-day Triple Crown Line emerge!
@fsd1
No. I’m not wrong. Last year Kopi got run by Phaneuf. Only the officials “enforced” on Calgary.
Two seasons ago in Colorado Ivanans was helpless as Cody Mcleod ran riot (injuring D. Armstrong) and simply refusing to fight Ivan. Mcleod also scored in that 6-1 defeat.
Enforcers are simply useless to a good team. We’re a good team now. Plus, we have plenty of toughness throughout the lineup to deal with any team in the league.
Without Westgarth in the lineup we have a pretty solid 4th line.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:29 pm
@Cristobal, outside of the red wings is there a “good” team that doesnt have an enforcer?
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Dan H. Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
@fsd1,
I think there are only 4-5 valid “heavyweights” in the league right now. Doesn’t sound like we need a full time knuckledragger keeping the 4th line to 5 minutes a night.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:12 pm
@Cristobal, finally someone who agrees with me. i am the biggest Westy Hater(have many posts proving this within a week)!!!! the guy is useless to this team, and what good is an enforcer that no one wants to fight anyway? players will still take liberties on our guys and wont fight Westy afterwards, which once again makes him useless and will get him instagater penalties. the only thing he has done is get us a stupid boarding penalty that negated a man advantage. Westy= USELESS
[Reply]
Hmm…by Murray’s supposed reasoning, wouldn’t his number one goaltender play the conference opponent and his backup play the out-of-conference opponent?…that is, if it’s the real basis of such decisions….
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Dominick Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:56 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
Quisp did a really good breakdown http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2010/11/2/1790113/revealed-terry-murrays-secret-goalie-rotation-calendar
The avg. days off made the most sense to me.
I’ve often thought, why don’t teams have 1 goalie concentrate on Western teams shooters and systems, and the other concentrate on Eastern teams shooters and systems? That way each goalie is specialized, and the goaltender duties are doled out accordingly.
If theirs an injury then the goalies just prepare for the other teams like they do now. Probably not effective since no ones ever done it consistantly.
[Reply]
What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:42 pm
@Dominick,
Interesting points. I’m not actually arguing the merit if the decision, though–just the idea that conference/division means anything to Murray, rather than being a shallow excuse for whatever his actual reasoning is.
[Reply]
Best of luck, Jake!!!
I think had DD2 played like last year, AND Muzzin brought a bit more of that nasty attitude to anyone who came close to our net, things would be different right now. But, as much as I wanted Muzzin to get the nod, DD2 does look like the better choice right now. I definitely think Jake will grow his game leaps and bounds this year, though, and will be back in the near future!!!
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@cynic
Dl has proven himself pretty darn well to me – I was one of his greatest doubters.
But, I still can’t help but see that the NHL has become a weaker league under the salary cap. On Yahoo.NHL today is a list of the wealthiest owners in the game and Anschutz tops the list. How ironic that these free-marketeers and market manipulators are able to destabalize clubs willing to pay the players by capping the amount the players can make, while this elite group continues to run free of any regulation and taxation resembling anything they impose themselves. All the while Bettmann makes more per year than anyone suiting up in a kings jersey.
The kings are in great shape, but compared to the teams of the past there is no comparison. The talent level, in relative terms, of teams like the isles and oilers of the 80′s is incomparable to teams of this era. They were much stronger and more consistent throughout the lineup.
But, I still have to hand it to DL because he has shut me up and I am pretty well convinced after seeing how strong we’re looking. Although, in this era the wheels can fall off in a heartbeat as we’re seeing year after year since the lockout.
[Reply]
At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, can somebody clear up the whole issue of “clearing wavers”? it has never really made much sense to me.
I think somebody once told be that before a player can be sent down to the minors another team can claim him within 48 hours… idk this just doesnt make too much sense to me
How would another team claim our players? do they just get his contract atuomaticaly?
[Reply]
Dan H. Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:51 pm
@CameronAC,
The CBA that was agreed to with the owners and players gives the league something like 40 games where a player is waiver exempt and there are also exemptions for younger age players.
Once a player gets above that, to send them down they have to clear waivers. This is a player side thing to keep guys in the NHL instead of the minors where teams can’t just squirrel players away in the minors and bury them.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
@CameronAC,
Essentially yes. When a player is sent from their NHL club to the AHL, and vice versa, they have to go through waivers. This means that any team can claim him and take over their contract. The teams go in reverse order of league standing (the 30th team gets first dibs and the 1st team gets last). If a player is claimed on re-entry waiver (being called from the AHL to NHL) the teams split the cost of the contract (essentially the team claiming him get’s him for half price), that’s how we got Randy Jones last year.
There are players that are waiver-exempt and they can be sent back and forth without having to clear waivers. This is granted based on their age when they signed their entry level contracts, and also they amount of pro games they have played I believe.
[Reply]
CameronAC Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm
@AZ King, ok, that makes a lot of sense. thanks for clearing that up, ive just kinda neglected asking for the past few years
[Reply]
@fsd1
rarther ask yourself which enforcers we’ve faced yet this year?
Any?
I don’t remember facing one team that had an enforcer, or one time our physical style was thwarted by an enforcer. Again, westy played 1/8 of the season and has not fought. His only activity of not was a boarding penalty that erased a would be powerplay at a crucial moment in the game at Dallas.
[Reply]
Belexes Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:00 pm
@Cristobal,
Didn’t we win the Dallas game? hmm. let me see….yes we did. We have a 7-2 record with Westy in the lineup.
also, guess you missed Paul Bissonnette when we played Phoenix?
[Reply]
BrokeKingsFan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
@Belexes, i know ive said this before but our record with Westy in the line up has nothing to do with his contributions, as there havnt been any so far. It just shows you that we have a solid team that can win without the contributions of a 4th line enforcer/winger.
[Reply]
Dan H. Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:27 pm
@BrokeKingsFan,
Yeah hard to contribute wins to a guy that averages maybe 5 minutes a game.
What a great position to be in. We are sending some excellent players to Manchester so we can bring back even better players to take their spots. As icing on the cake, if we need the Manchester guys to fill in, they have already had some winning experience with the current team.
[Reply]
Why couldn’t we ship Harrold out, and keep Muzz???
Yeah, yeah, he’s young, and needs regular playing time, etc., etc., etc…
[Reply]
@mcsorleyfan
I forget whose jaw Westy broke, was that an established enforcer???
Maybe you are wrong, and Westy isn’t fighting because enforcers are a relic and good, tough players (like Brendan Morrow) are never going to drop the gloves with a guy like Ivanans or Westgarth – just as guys like Richards and Cooke are never going to drop the gloves with light-heavyweights.
Modern day enforcement comes through team toughness and skilled hard-nosed players. We’ve now got that within our lineup. Much much bigger and tougher than even last years playoff team.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:09 pm
@Cristobal, where is all of our team toughness? Simmer was last year, but isn’t that guy, at least not yet. DB is a hitter, otherwise not very “tough”. To me those people you’ve mentioned are tough in a chippy/dirty way which is an excellent trait to have in our sport. But we don’t have those guys. We have nice heavy hitters, but not really much in the chippy/nasty Morrow way. That’s what we need to grow come playoff time… IMO
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:34 pm
@Stuart, i think that given the chance, or if someone were to actually do something seriously dirty to one of our guys that a whole # of guys would be right there willing to throw down. i could see Greene for sure, i know JJ doesnt lack confidence in that area, Poni is a beast and has been putting a hurtin on people so far and Mitchell, even though it wouldnt be in his best interest (concussion) seems to be very protective of our guys. Also… to say Dusty isnt tough is blasphemous!! same with Simmer.
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mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@BrokeKingsFan, Greene can’t win a fight; no threat. Watch Greene fight video and it goes :Gloves drop. They grab. Greene throws, loses balance. They fall down. Fight stopped.
mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:38 pm
@Cristobal, Yes, in fact David Koci was brought in by CO this year to “add team toughness and grit to the line-up”. It didn’t last the preseason. Look around the division, specifically. I will not argue that there is a place in the NHL for an enforcer who is unskilled other than fighting; one of the traits I most admired in MMcS was his work ethic to become more than just a hot-headed Irishman (something I also tried to emulate when I played!). My position here is that we need Westy to improve is over-all gameplay. He was brought up in favor of Ivan because he was thought to have more offensive upside and to be more mobile and an over-all better player. I’d personally love to see him skating to the point he was getting PK minutes. I’m afraid that will take a bit more time, but I feel he’s worth that, and should be given the chance to get the experience. All of our skill is useless if it’s on IR.
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@belexes
Bissonette is a good PLAYER and is a middleweight.
Our record with Westy in the lineup is good, but there’s no arguing that it could be better, right?
We played even with Chicago and lost without Westgarth, we were arguably outplayed in Dallas and won with Westy in. Does Westgarths presence help Quick stop 38 shots??? I don’t think it does.
I’m going to have to agree to disagree with the “enforcer supporters”.
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fsd1 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:12 pm
@Cristobal, well, if TM has made you think different why would you disagree with his thought process that this team needs an enforcer?
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@Stuart
I’m risking deletion with all these posts, but if I can indulge, I see our entire lineup as much tougher.
Drewike, Greene, JJ, WM, Clifford, Ponikarovsky, Simmonds, Brown, Schenn, Stoll. Even Zus and Kopi are hitting with some purpose. We have size and power throughout the lineup. Even Williams has dropped the gloves already. None of these players are afraid to throw the body and none would have to drop the gloves with a Parros or a Bougaard. You simply don’t need to.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:25 pm
@Cristobal, im trying to help you out here as i agree with you 200%
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:31 pm
@Cristobal,
It is one thing to be against war; nobody likes war. It’s another thing to pretend it doesn’t exist and thus not be prepared for one when it happens.
“Peace through strength…”
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:36 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968, Wars are not faught with one guy! so if a war is immanent then we have an entire Army that can Fight it!! ie: your LA KINGS
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 1:58 pm
@BrokeKingsFan,
Yes, I agree. But I am thinking in the tactical sense. It is the rogue states (like Anaheim) who have a bomb (Big George), who need to be kept in check with mutually ensured destruction.
This keeps anything serious from happening.
Also, when a nation with terrorist elements (like Avery, Rutuu, or even the Boogey Man) choose to threaten our national interests (i.e. Kopitar, Williams etc.) or to attack our embassy (like when they crash the goalie or run people from behind), it is better to interdict with the power of, say, an aircraft carrier as opposed to sending the whole army.
That being said, the difference in this whole argument lies with the effectiveness of the weapons system. Obviously, if you have dudes like Iginla or Morrow it is much better than having Ivan or Westie; we all know that.
It’s the difference between doing the job with a fighter/bomber or a B-52.
I can hear both sides of the argument but mark my words; the season will get more brutal as time goes by, and play-offs even more so. I reference the first round series from last year.
@BKF
I apreciate the support of my opinion. We’re all Kings fans hoping for the best for our club. I think we all respect different opinions, but they are just different. Whatever happens, I must say I’ve been converted by DL and TM. At least for now…
They’ve done an admirable job.
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@mcsorleyfan
I am a huge fan of the man Marty. He was un-believable. If Westy has talent then I agree that it’s nice to have a player like that. But, I haven’t seen much talent at all. He’s had a lot of time at the pro level. Is the talent there, or is it just a hope???
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mcsorleyfan Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 2:30 pm
@Cristobal, It seems to be a matter of transition, actually; he was somewhat effective in Manchester, thus giving the Kings management that hope. He hasn’t had a lot of NHL time, obviously; “15 Kevin Westgarth 76 11 14 25 6 180 1 0 92 0.120″ is his regular season statline from last year. 25 points in 76 games, 11 goals and 14 assists. +6 rating. As I said, I think he’ll take a bit more time to adjust to the NHL; these big bodies are a bit tougher to steer. By game 40 I’d be happy to revisit the topic…
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Is there a better set of defensemen in the NHL?
Even our 7th is solid.
We’ve come a long way since the Klemm, Dallman, Preissing days.
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King John Reply:
November 3rd, 2010 at 8:27 pm
@seabass,
and ‘Goat’ier (Gauthier).
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@doc Mark
guys like Parros and Boogaard don’t usually run a goalie and they are not talented enough to line up clean hits, or even dirty hits, because they cannot get into position or read situations.
Ivanan, for instance, never ran a goalie without hurting his own team with an offensive zone penalty and NEVEr can I remember him throwing a devastating hit.
In addition, most enforcers, if their team actually makes the playoffs (could this indicate their current validity) don’t see any ice time in the playoffs.
Vancouver had no enforcer. Best pound for pound fighter, yes, but not an enforcer.
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