As posted earlier, the Kings will go with fourth-line changes tomorrow night against Carolina, with Kyle Clifford and Trevor Lewis replacing Brayden Schenn and Kevin Westgarth. Clifford and Lewis will be wingers for center Brad Richardson, who moves over from left wing. Schenn averaged 14-plus minutes in his first two games, but that slipped to 9:35 against Atlanta and 7:06 in Friday’s game. Westgarth played only 2:10 on Friday. Here’s what Terry Murray said about the changes.
MURRAY: “I want to get Lewis into a game. Coming out of the training camp, he’s been sitting there patiently, waiting to get going. … You have young players who have gone through the summer and the training camp and put in a great amount of work and had real good camps, so I want to give them an opportunity. Same thing with Clifford. He played a couple games and I took him out. We needed to address a couple areas with him, and now the same scenario pops up with Schenn, which I talked to him about this morning, about parts of the game that we’ll keep giving a push through the days off, on the ice and through video review.”
Murray was asked what, specifically, in Schenn’s game needed to be addressed. Schenn can play five more games before the Kings must decide whether to return him to his junior team or keep him and burn a year off his contract. So far, Schenn has zero points, nine shots on goal and a minus-2 rating in four games.
MURRAY: “On the D-zone coverage part of things. What happens in this situation is, you come back after a penalty kill — and this is exactly what I told him — you come back after a penalty kill, and he’s in the middle with whomever I put him out with on the wings, and you end up against the Sedins. They’re coming right back with their top line. Now you’re looking at the MVP of the game last year, and they can expose a lot of players. They recognize a young player, and there were some situations there that we need to address and get him to close faster and be more firm in those situations.”
I like the moves. It’s good to keep your 4th line fresh and Schenn wasn’t going to play 82 games anyways. Most 4th liners get 40-60 games depending on injuries.
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis should be able to play 10+ minutes and give the top lines some rest heading into the back-to-back game against Phoenix.
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Hey whatya know! The sky isn’t falling!
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Excellent explanation TM.
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jayhay Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
@Stuart,
agreed. was a little surprised at first, but its true about Lewis and Cliffy. its back to back and this is against an Eastern Conf opponent. there is evidence in the #’s. not opposed to the swap, for now.
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DougS Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
@jayhay,
I think the back-to-back thing is key here. In Clifford and Lewis, you have a couple of young guys who earned a spot on the roster, but they haven’t been playing much (Lewis not at all this season). I don’t see any reason not to give them a chance, and rest a couple of guys, in a situation like this. Especially with travel in between the games.
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Really? Sitting Schenn? Kid has had some bad luck on the posts and crossbars. Other than that he needs to play everyday. By the way – Chicago is hating their fire sale this summer. In 1st. They have a couple games in hand but they have a tremendous O-Fence
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
@I’m Just Saying”,
It looks like training camp was not long enough to make important decisions. It’s a good thing we have won some games; it allows time for tinkering.
As far as the ‘Hawks go, I follow them as much as the Kings; their speed and skill game is a great thing of aesthetic beauty.
They have been getting off to really slow starts lately but this is what makes them all the more frightening; their late game quick strike ability has been on full display for the last couple of games.
The two big players they are obviously missing are Ladd and Mad Dog. But their youth is not bad. Stalberg can skate like lightning but he sat out against the Blues.
The Kings and ‘Hawks show two completely different looks. I have come to think that it is not right to try to compare them. It’s safe to say that we do have some work to get to their level though.
I can’t wait for the Kings/’Hawks game next week!
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I'm Just Saying" Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968,
Yes it should be a great game next week. Great D against Great O. I was mentioning the fact that they have a cup and everyone thought that they would fall to the bottom feeders because they did not play the Cap space game correctly. They have all the big names needed as their core and they will add some youth and role players to be at the top again. The Kings will not spend for that Big Name to take us to the promise land. We are hoping and certainly off to a good start with the kids but as you can see the scoring which everyone knew was going to be a problem was never fixed. That scoring left winger that Kopi and Brown have been yelling for years about has not materialized. The offer for Kovy was never going to happen and by the time they were done with all the Hoo Ha there was nobody left on the FA market. They have all the tools and pieces for a trade but have not done that either. We will see when the 10 game mark passes and they need to make the choices of who stays and who go’s. I just think that both JQ and JB will get sick of knowing that if they give up 1 or 2 goals its over because of our offense wont be scoring 4 or 5. the 1-0 and 2-1 games will wear on the goalies after a while. Just my 2 cents. I am happy to get off to the great start lets keep it going.
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KC23 Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 8:13 am
@I’m Just Saying”, What the King’s offered Kovi was not chump change. DL just not stupid enough to do with NJ did. Thank God for that. I’m guessing we’ll have a trade well before the trade deadline.
Garry Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 1:56 am
@I’m Just Saying”, Schenn was one of the most coveted player’s in the draft and we have him scratched and wasting his talent on the 4th line. I’m certain we can get a 4th round pick from some other team for him. I wonder what DL and staff saw that’s missing now.
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I had an interesting though….
When Greene comes back, given our situation, who says we have to move a defenseman out? Why couldn’t we move a forward?
Why carry 8 defenseman you ask?
Well, when one also plays forward, it kind of makes things a little easier to deal with. If one of Clifford, Schenn or Lewis could go when Greene comes back, We could keep both DD2 AND Muzzin, just classify Harrold as a winger.
Done.
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Sydor25 Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
@Cynic,
Sending Muzzin back to the AHL wouldn’t be the end of the world. Pair him with Hickey and let them play 20+ minutes in all situations.
I would rather waive Harrold and keep Drewiske as the #7 defenseman, but Muzzin can move freely between the AHL and NHL and the Kings might want to keep all of their players for now.
Harrold could help the young Monarch’s defense, but I’m not sure he would pass through waivers.
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jayhay Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
@Sydor25, havent seen the Monarchs or their #’s, gotta figure tho, Voynov is now logging super minutes (or least once he gets into game shape) w/ Hicks. btw, is Hickey the Captain this year?
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VanKingsFan Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@jayhay, No idea who is captain… but Voynov is still hurt, hasn’t logged a game yet.
jayhay Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@VanKingsFan, cheers. interesting about Voynov. Is it Holly thats our Manchester correspondent? “come in, Holly.”
Quisp Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 3:40 am
@jayhay, @vankingsfan
No captain. Hickey and Martinez are alternates. I assume Cliche will be the third alternate when he returns from injury.
Voynov played tonight, actually. Got an assist and was the only Monarch to score in the shoot-out.
Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
@Cynic,
Yeah, TM seems concerned about people sitting and not playing, why not put PH on the fourth line wing?
I like Westi’s toughness, but as far as overall play is concerned, PH would probably do better.
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Cynic Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968,
I agree with that to a point re: Harry. He’s a good relief valve and if someone is going to be in reserve, I’d rather have a utility guy like PH than Lewis, Clifford or Schenn. Besides, we still have Parse to get healthy and come back. That will be after 10 games it looks like. Positions should open up a bit then. I cannot see us keeping Lewis, Clifford and Schenn. Probably just one.
I think Westy should be played like Bernier: Only when necessary to match up against toughness. There are teams we play that we don’t need a heavyweight. Playing him all the time (I believe) is an exploitable liability, unless Westy can pick his game up.
Good point about TM though.
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Cynic Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
I should clarify:
If I’m going to have a RELIEF guy means someone sitting on the bench waiting to filla void. I don’t want Cliffy or Schenn sitting on the bench and (Right now) Harrold>Lewis.
thanks for clearing this up Rich / Murray. everyone wants to see Schenn play, but young players need to earn their ice time just like everyone else, i hope he takes this the right way and comes back with a strong game and scores his first NHL goal against PHX.
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KC23 Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 8:17 am
@Sebastian, That’s exactly right. No goals and a plus/minus -2 does not get it done. We don’t pay players to hit posts on gimme goals. Don’t get me wrong, I love Schenn’s play, but sitting one game isn’t the end of the world or hurting Schenn.
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OT: This is off topic…. but, has anyone seen a promotional schedule for home games? I can’t find one on the Kings website. I was wondering what give-aways are planned for the year. Will there be bobblehead give-aways? Anyone know?
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I have a real problem with not playing Schenn. He is a top prospect, he’s NHL ready and he does not belong on the fourth line. Because he has been relegated to fourth line duty his talents have not manifested because of the nature of fourth line play. He’s not a checker or a grinder type player. He certainly is as talented as Letestu or the Stempan in New York. There is something about our system that seems to stifle the development and creativity of young skilled forwards into the top 6. Other teams have taken our young talent and developed top 6 forwards. (Moulson, Cammalleri Purcell) Not every player is going to fit our system but if we keep throwing skilled players onto the fourth line as checkers and grinders then they are going to continuall to become discouraged and lose faith in their potential contributions to the team.
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BrokeKingsFan Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
@Bonvivant1, im hesitant to agree with you but…… do agree with the fact that other teams seem to be able to take what we get rid of as garbage and turn them into treasures. i dont remember, has schenn got time on any of the top 2 lines? if not, i would be interested to see how he does. i think the issue might be that he is a center as opposed to a winger and we obviously have that position on lock down with Kopi on the 1st and Stolls line doing so well i dont think antyone in there right mind would split them up.
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Neil Ellis Shafton Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
@Bonvivant1, Top Prospect? High draft choice, but top prospect?
Kozun had a much better WHL/WJC career, the only issue with Kozun is he’s 5ft 8in?? Well that is generous and he needs to add 20 lbs.
I’m just curious as to what you expect to see from Schenn right now, if he was put on the 2nd line for argument sake?
Did you watch Schenn play in the WHL? Did you see his performance in the WJC last year? Did you watch the Memorial Cup?
I’d love to believe Schenn is what you appear to claim, but I’m not sure we are talking about the same Schenn.
You say Stempniak I think, big difference Stempniak played in college Dartmouth, and Letescu is 25 years old, spent time with Scranton-Wilkesbury of the AHL.
As for past play selections of the Kings, you are correct there, for whatever reason, they seemed to play up to expectations once they were with another team, but that is past history now.
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Neil Ellis Shafton Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
@Neil Ellis Shafton, Sorry Stepan you meant, but again, Stepan played in college, also was huge for team USA in the World Juniors against Canada. Even there, he’s still playing at a level between CHL/AHL, but still not the AHL. Prior to that, he was at Shattuck in MN which has had Crosby/Parise/JMFJ and a lot of other kids now playing in the NHL.
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Bonvivant1 Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
@Neil Ellis Shafton, If the Kings did not feel that he was a highly touted player they would not have selected another center. We are so deep at center it makes my head spin. Our glaring weakness is at left wing. Why did they not move up in the draft and draft a player who was NHL ready? If he could move to left wing that would be another issue. Most players are not necessarily natural centers but they learn the position. I believe his skill set is interchangeable and I think he could play at wing.
Garry Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 1:31 am
@Bonvivant1, I agree and think both Clifford and Schenn would be far more advanced if playing on some other team like Fowler and the Duck’s.
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Neil Ellis Shafton Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 9:20 am
@Bonvivant1: In response to drafting Schenn. I can’t begin to explain why to be honest. Is Schenn a good prospect sure, but I do not think he is the caliber of a bunch of the same players who also went in the 1st round. IMO 5th was a bit too high, but DL has his reasons, so lets hope he was right on this one.
DL has never been one to follow conventional wisdom, and all these so called experts, aren’t always right in their assesments of yet to be drafted players and their potential in the NHL.
There have be as many bad scouting reports, and also some good ones. Angelo Esposito was supposed to be the next great prospect, well he’s living in the AHL without cracking a NHL lineup yet. Robbie Schremp another highly touted kid, not much of a big scorer as projected.
All the media surrounding the 09 draft, unfortunetly was only about Tavares and Hedman. Never until the few weeks before the draft did they even mention Duchene. Duchehe did not play in the World Juniors that year because of an injury. As for today, Duchene seems to have been a better player to date than Tavares and Hedman. Evander Kane is showing why he was the 4th pick overall, Paajarvi has shown us that he also was a very good draft choice. Jordan Caron, Marcus Johansson are doing well in the NHL right now.
I don’t dislike Schenn, not trying to bash the kid, I just don’t think right now, on this current Kings team, he’s a fit or ready.
I know DL is really thinking long about what to do, and IMO he will send Schenn back to the WHL. The reasons are simple, they don’t have a place for him right now, and they can’t send him to Manchester so he can grow, by playing 20 minutes in a 1st line or 2nd line situation.
I could name a bunch of guys the Kings have been wrong about.
1994: Jamie Storr (7th overall) Bust
1995: Aki Berg (3rd overall) Bust
1996: None
1997: Olli Jokinen (3rd overall) & Matt Zultek (15th overall) Bust
1998: Mathieu Biron (21st overall) Bust
1999: None
2000: Alexander Frolov (20th overall) solid NHL player
2001: Jens Karlsson (18th overall) & Dave Steckel (30th overall) Bust
2002: Denis Grebeshkov (18th overall) Bust
2003: Dustin Brown (13th overall), Brian Boyle (26th overall), & Jeff Tambellini (27th overall) Bust x 2
2004: Lauri Tukonen (11th overall) Bust
2005: Anze Kopitar (11th overall) Superstar
2006: Jonathan Bernier (11th overall) & Trevor Lewis (17th overall) Bernier awesome, Lewis still trying to make that next step
2007: Thomas Hickey (4th overall) Still waiting
2008: Drew Doughty (2nd overall) & Colten Teubert (13th overall) Superstart and Teubert still waiting
2009: Brayden Schenn (5th overall) ?
2010: Derek Forbort (15th overall) ?
Forbort might be a great pick, but I could not understand why if you already have a bunch of defenders, and you have stated you wanted offensive depth, you move up and take Forbort. Tofolli might be the saving grace, but WTF and why they again used their first pick for another defender is beyond me.
Schenn is not a wing, and he’s not going to be productive until he improves his skating, and his ability to score in close. I just don’t see that happening playing on the 4th line.
How many highly touted defensive prospects do you need, and when do you start to use this group, to get a player(s) who can help out the area which is in need LW, and a sniper?
I look at Nathan Horton, would have loved to have seen the Kings go after him, but they were tunnel vison, with Kovalchuk.
The UFA pool after this season will hopefully land the Kings a much needed addtion, and with Alexander Semin I think you have your LW who can really light it up. Players like Semin will need a player like Loktionov to play with, or maybe Schenn can fit into this someplace, but Semin should be available if Washington does not resign him during this season.
There might also be Zach Parise, Brad Richards
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Belexes Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 9:32 am
@Neil Ellis Shafton,
I couldn’t get past the label of “Bust” on Olli Jokinen. Are you serious about this?
Leo of Pico Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 10:04 am
@Neil Ellis Shafton, this is a special Kings team let them grow in the first game Scheen played great got time on the power play was all over even seeing about Kopitar when he got cut as for the KINGS draft selection since 2005 not bad this team is growing and most all from within the system alot of people still trying to find little things wrong they will score just to sit Scheen down for a game will not hurt the kid he is another winner just watch later Kings fans
steve c Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 5:56 am
@Bonvivant1, You hit the nail on the head. Why can we see that but Kings management can’t?
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Sitting Schenn, really…? I am NOT happy with this decision at all. This kid has looked good every game, can only hope that there is some motivating factor to this decision. Murray has been good with the young players so I will go along with it only because of that. But, this hopefully is not a preview of things to come this year, or a sign that he’s going back to juniors, which I think would be a HUGE mistake!
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ESPN has Kings 3rd in power rankings and Quick first in player rankings. Can someone paste in the text on the Quick article? ESPN Insider..
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I like Schenn a lot but don’t really like him on the 4th line. It seems his style of play is better suited on a scoring line but with Stoll playing so well, where do you put him?
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Everyone needs to settle down because we all knew this was how it would go. Regardless of how Schenn performed we all knew Murray would try and work in other players on the 4th line. Right now we have 4 centers that are playing well. Would be nice to know if Richie can fill in as a 5th just in case. And Lewis needs to be given a shot otherwise what’s the point of keeping him? At lease we find out if he can fill in when needed, has any trade value or needs to go back to Manchester.
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this is a good move. everybody needs to get a fair shot–it only makes sense.
i love schenn but he was almost invisible in the last game and i think it’s smart to work on any deficits in practice and allow a young player a chance to watch a game or two and rehearse, reflect, and visualize his prospective approach.
besides, there is a limit on how many games he can play before decisions have to be made…why rush it?
best reason though: the other guys need their time too to prove or disprove their cases.
(dark thoughts: showcasing talent for future trades…?
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Good to see Lewis getting a shot. In the past couple of pre-seasons I thought he was totally lnvisible. This training camp and exhibition season however I thought he was at his best, a lot of speed !
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On Schenn sitting:
I am a firm subscriber to the Detroit Red Wings system of developing prospects. Give them plenty of time, allow them to mature and work on every little bit of their game, and watch as they become excellent, complete, NHL players. Instead of kids with tons of skill that will never reach their full potential because they didn’t go through the full development process.
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Rich, do you have any Info if Lewis is only in for the game Tomorrow or can we expect Westgarth to be scratched for Thursday as well.
Same Question goes for Clifford and Schenn.
I am asuming that tomorrows game can change a lot of things and I ca’t imagine TM has made up his mind on Thursdays Lineup yet.
Thanks
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Good move in my eyes. Schenn is gonna have his day we need not worry about that.
Love Clifford’s game and looking forward to seeing him play again.
Finally a good look at Lewis. Looking forward to that too.
I am actually happy with Westgarth so far. I’ve seen no teams trying to take liberties with our players and he hasn’t really made any glaring mistakes. I really hope he keeps working on his skating and gets better.
This is just a coach doing his job looking at the big picture.
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yea, im not thrilled about schenn being benched, as said in another reply, he’s hit what like 2 or 3 posts? I mean once those start going in, im sure TM’s thinking will be very different. I do agree others deserve a chance also. But being on the 4th line wont begin to help schenn’s cause at all.
I do believe one of the first couple games schenn played in he was on the 3rd line, im not for sure tho.
Here hoping schenn gets another legitamite chance within the next few games.
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King John Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 12:41 am
@LEE10,
That’s not why. TM said he wanted to give Schenn some time to address defensive issues and give Lewis a chance to play. Schenn will be back, don’t worry.
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showcasing Lewis for a trade????
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Schenn is not ready for a mans game for 82. Look at his stats this year vs. Lewis last year. Lewis scored against the red wings for God’s sake. They have groomed Lewis for 3 years. Schenn will go back to juniors.
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Quisp Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 3:50 am
@puckbrew,
I would be surprised.
However, Lewis needs to impress, as he could easily be the odd-man-out if DL decides to keep all three of Schenn, Clifford and Loktionov with the big club.
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KC23 Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 8:22 am
@Quisp, Agreed, but Lewis could very easily earn himself a spot with a strong effort. He kind of gets a break without having Westgarth slowing the line down.
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Talk about extremes here. A little early to trade Lewis after 1 game. I don’t think any teams are that desperate for an inexperienced 4th line winger.
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THat should be a very fast and physical fourth line.
All 3 of those guys bring speed to the table, particularly Lewis and Richie….and all 3 throw the body. Looking forward to Lewis.
And one thing that should be addressed with Schenn. STAY ON YOUR DAMN FEET KID. He falls so often!
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Bossy22 Reply:
October 20th, 2010 at 10:34 am
@Jay,
I always thought of Schenn as the Center version of Brown, in other words similar style player, checking + offense. I don’t think the comparision is far off, nobody loses his feet more than Brownie. It seems every year his balance gets further off!!!!
Schenn is on course, we’ll see???
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Lombardi has been quoted as to the fact:
Paying your dues in the minors, being given certain aspects of their game to work on, and accomplishing those goals, is how you develope players and how the Kings system is going to work.
Doughty, Simmonds, now Muzzin ( Maybe ) are exceptions to that rule, but they are not what the Kings expect.
Lewis was coming along fine, never was going to be higher than a 2nd line guy, 1st rounder, that like Hickey, went earlier than expected, but like Hickey was so well rounded, would be develope into an NHL player someday without question.THEN Lewis separates his shoulder last year, and misses the whole season practically. His development was hindered as was Hickey, and Loktionov because of injuries.
Voynov was high on the readiness chart, payed his dues in the minors and gets hurt, now he drops down the depth chart, we can go on and on……
Now is the time as it has been the past 3 seasons, to see the readiness of our system, expecting Schenn and Clifford to leapfrog to the NHL ahead of all the rest of the guys that have ” paid their dues” has to fit a need, or else our young players are not going to believe Lombardi’s plan, and will want to be moved.
Parse, Drewiskie, Harrold, Lewis, Westgarth have paid their dues can deserve their fair chance.
If they don’t fit here, they will fit somewhere else.
Ask Moulson, I’m sure all Kings fans would love him as our 1st line LW right now, and would deal away kids like,Moller, Voynov, Lewis and others just to get him.
Moulson should remind us that without a fair chance, we could lose another just like him.
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