Donald Fehr, the former baseball union head, is now positioning himself to take over the NHL Players’ Association. It’s an important time for the group, which has undergone considerable turmoil over the past few years, largely because of leadership issues. Labor strife looms in the NHL in the summer of 2012, and Fehr, who went toe-to-toe with Major League Baseball’s powers in the mid-90s, would not be a lightweight on the opposite side of the table from Gary Bettman. Fehr is now doing a “tour” of teams’ locker rooms, to introduce himself, ask questions, etc., in advance of a vote to see whether he will be approved as union head. Matt Greene, the Kings’ union rep, said Fehr met with the team during training camp.
GREENE: “He came and touched base with our whole team and kind of gave us the short-term plan for right now, for how the P.A. is going and how he sees himself taking over. That’s my third or fourth time talking to him, throughout the meetings and everything this summer. I’m real impressed. He has a pretty good presence about him, with his knowledge and experience, and I think that rubs off on the guys and makes the guys pretty excited about where this is going. I think everybody is real happy about him coming on board and helping us out.”
whatever, thats a “you guys” situation. dont make it an “us” situation w/ a work stoppage. biggest fear.
[Reply]
All i know is that another strike would crush a lot of hockey… i don’t think it would kill it but it would really hurt it a ton. It would make it that much harder away to get back on ESPN, national TV, etc..
Perversely a strike could lead to more Canadian teams as I would guess it would impact the “newer” markets first (Florida, Phoenix, Atlanta)…and then we’d see relocations to Quebec, Winnipeg, Sask, etc.
[Reply]
Danielle Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:58 am
@Shakes,
Just want to point out that the last one was not a strike, it was a lock out. So to refer to “another strike”, is casting things in the wrong light.
[Reply]
is being the NHL commissioner a “lifetime” job…like being a supreme court justice? the guy’s been in that position since the Kings went to the finals…almost 18 years ago…is he really doing that good a job…can he be fired or replaced?
[Reply]
Matt F Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 9:25 am
@Sebastian, The Board of Governors would have to lose confidence in the Commissioner in order for him to lose his job, as far as i know.
[Reply]
PRMan Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 10:53 am
@Sebastian, And honestly, lately, he is doing a good job. It only took him 15 years of on-the-job training to learn how.
[Reply]
By the way, let’s state this fact right now: If there was a work stoppage the Kings would be very stupid to even touch Rich because he helps increase the loyalty with our great fanbase.
There is a decent size core in LA that is very loyal to the team (a fact which is lost upon every analyst east of California) and making sure that those people feel connected to the team even if there were no games occuring is something that I would think is even more valuable during a lockout…
[Reply]
Deke'r Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
@Shakes, If management can’t see that, the organization is doomed! I mean it is about the fan base….no?
[Reply]
The players need to understand that this sport is not profitable right now for too many owners. Everyone wants to see the players get paid more, but hockey isn’t football or baseball. It could be bigger, with more $ for players, but whatever is required to get there, a work stoppage ain’t it.
Betteman may largely be responsible for shrinking hockey with his TV choices, but we are where we are in terms of the financial wherewithal of this sport. The NHLPA should take a less-is-more approach, a la Thornton, rather than a more-is-less approach (kovy). If all the sunbelt teams move to the Yukon, it won’t be good for the players in the end.
[Reply]
Great points from everyone. Unless the economy improves, I do not see the players getting much backing from the public. Many people actually use sports as their release from the hard times. Look at how many people come on this board and say they have just lost a job, have just moved to find a job. When you take one of the last pieces of hope (their team lifting the cup) away from people, they will remain bitter and not return.
Here are my suggestions:
The small city subsidy has to be greater. If a fan does not have the faintest hope that his team can make the playoffs, he will have a hard time supporting his team. The big city teams still have an advantage with being able to bury unproductive contracts in the minors. There should be an adjustment for teams that participate in community events. So, if a team is out puplizing itself (like teh Kings on Sunday), then they should keep a higher portion of their revenues.
Limit the max salary to 15% of the cap. Yes, this keeps owners from self distructing.
The cash payout should be used in the cap calculation. This would need to be phased in to avoid penilzing current heavy contracts.
[Reply]
It’ll be interesting to see if both sides have learned their lesson.
I doubt it as human nature, especially in the area of greed, never changes.
[Reply]
nykingfan Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:31 am
@KC23,
Isn’t that the truth…
[Reply]
@scvking,
ditto.
[Reply]
A bit of semantics here folks, last work stopage was a lockout. Owners shut the doors, not the players. It will hurt the game either way, so again just semantics. We’re talking about billinoaires paying millionaires and they are arguing over pennies sometimes.
[Reply]
mfnlakings Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 10:18 am
@2hitnik, Word
[Reply]
@Cubs 08, More importantly. yes the PA does work for many of the superstars… but it provides medical, pension, etc.. to the hundreds of guys earning the league minimum who only play 2-3 years. they may not make millions, but there injuries could last a lifetime. That is the majority of your PA membership….
[Reply]
ppppplllllleeeeeaaaassssseee no strike or lockout…it will kill the league and sport for good.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
@john,
Kill the sport…really? That’s a little dramatic don’t you think?
[Reply]
all the yrs i waited for the kings to win the cup,and now they have the best chance to do it,and there is talk of a strike or lockout.they better not they cannot do this to me.i have been a KINGS FAN since 74.say it aint so
[Reply]
Off topic: Did anyone go to any of the rink tours? Missed out on Aliso Viejo. Just hoping the turn out was really good.
[Reply]
@Cubs 08, try thinking it through just a bit. If the players were without a union, the thoroughly filty-rich owners would walk all over them, and the most ruthless of them would suck all the life out of the league. With salaries being lower, you wouldn’t necessarily see the best players in the league playing in the NHL. A lot of talented players would stay in Europe or never bother joining the pro ranks at all.
Competitive sports teams and leagues cannot survive in some kind of fantasy free market environment. That’s cuckoo.
[Reply]
nykingfan Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:35 am
@EJ,
I’m not sure about that. I think the scenario you described is how the NHL operates currently.
The KHL is paying more $ than the NHL is right now…especially with the top tier players.
The North American kids will always stay here and play…As far as the European players, either they want to compete against the best, or take the $$ and run.
Look at Kovy..he could have gotten more from the KHL..especially after the league saidf nyet to the original contract, but he wanted to stay here and compete against the best.
[Reply]
Clearly, when I get home I need to put the blog rules in larger, bold type, because they must be too difficult to read. Keep politics off the hockey blog. Totally. Thanks.
[Reply]
Shakes Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 10:48 am
@Rich Hammond,
Gracias
[Reply]
pr0cess Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 10:51 am
@Rich Hammond, Im starting to think you dont like me Rich…
[Reply]
Steve S. Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 10:55 am
@Rich Hammond,
I’m not sure I saw any comments that clearly are “politics” although I am not sure what you mean by the term in this context. A dispute between owners and players is inherently political.
[Reply]
pr0cess Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 10:58 am
@Steve S., That would be the politics of hockey, just a little differant.
[Reply]
Shakes Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
@Steve S. the offending thread was removed. many things were said. we laughed. we cried. but in the end i think we’re all stronger because of it.
[Reply]
scvking Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:58 am
@Cubs 08,
We come here to talk hockey, not politics. There are other sites for that. I think all of us are protective of this site, and want it to remain what it is. Rich does a great job of moderating and none of us want to increase his already substantial workload. I tried to nip it before he had to. My mistake; not my place to do so. Sorry, Rich.
[Reply]
Rich Hammond Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
@scvking,
No worries. Of all the strange things I’ve read in the past year, the one that goes to the front of the line is today’s, “You work for the Kings now, so you don’t want people talking politics.” Makes roughly as much sense as, “You work for the Kings now, so you don’t want people to eat apples.”
The fact is that debating politics, more often than not, usually leads to absolutely nothing but anger and name-calling. There’s no place for it here.
[Reply]
When MLB players struck way back when and griped about the ref’s not supporting them, then did not support the refs when they struck, I stopped watching or caring about MLB.
When the NHL lockout happened, I swore that if I was forced to to endure that again, I’d cease caring about major league sports all together.
KINGS MANAGEMENT/PLAYERS BE WARNED: I will stop watching, spending money etc.. if you guys shut down again. (I know they are all quaking in their boots). I’ll just focus on my kid’s hockey games, which are pretty exciting anyway!
AND ABOUT THIS POLITICAL STUFF: We can yell at each other on other boards. This is for HOCKEY. No one ever convinces anyone to change their mind via a blog post anyway.
[Reply]
In tough times like this, both sides need to measured in terms of their expectations. Personally, I think the players and owners are both miscast by the media. Players have a short career and will likely never have the earning power the rest of their lives like they do when they are playing. Furthermore, not all of them earn superstar dollars.
Many of the owners are not fat cats. Teams have gone bankrupt. And teams that lose money can’t be too heavily subsidized by those that do; such a model is not sustainable. This is not “political”, just statement of fact.
One thing that I think everybody can agree on is that a work stoppage would greatly damage the game. Yes, time can help heal this damage, but takes a long time and things are never really the same again.
Hope that cooler heads prevail.
[Reply]
scvking Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:45 am
@Steve S.,
Measured would be a good tact, although one that does not come naturally for either side.
Donald Fehr (and Marvin Miller before him) made substantial (and probably overdue) gains for the MLB union when the owners had been extremely heavy-handed. Those gains and changes could have occurred more easily and without the stoppages had the owners not been as hardline as they were.
I honestly wonder if Fehr (presuming he does in fact become the head of the union) will be able to concede certain points more easily than his past behavior allowed, while at the same time coercing the owners to accept concessions that they will ultimately make anyway?
Fehr is smart, gets results and does what the union wants/needs him to do. The nhl players union has gone through a particularly difficult time, with a leadership void following a leadership disaster. For the players, getting a leader like Fehr is godsend, after how the union has been mis-managed. You can deny the players the right to choose a guy like Fehr. But, that is where your term “measured” comes in.
I can only hope we have no stikes or lockouts.
[Reply]
Buck Turgidson Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
@scvking,
The NHL players gave up plenty last time around. There really isn’t anything more they can do. So Fehr seems like exactly the right guy.
Given the danger involved with playing 82+ hockey games a year and the average career for players – I really hope they protect what they have and not sell out the way the NFL has over the years.
If there is stoppage, just like last time it will be because ownership is bent on it.
[Reply]
scvking Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
@Buck Turgidson,
Absolutely a great read on this. the players did indeed give up lots the last time, especially accepting the cap.
What happens when the next CBA comes up and the owners want to lower the cap $8-10 mil? That is what I worry about, and I don’t see Fehr coming in as the new head of the union and telling the players to accept that.
Who cares about politics, lets just get to Wednesday and the next game, er, should I say “step,” to the Cup. What is up with 4 days off and then a back-to-back? Things like that worry me when we expect the league to use common sense reference negotiating long term labor deals and Kovalsuk type contracts.
[Reply]
ouch, got pulled. sorry Rich for being part of the problem and not the solution. on a positive note, Brown’s agent (Norton) was on NHLive this morning and was talking about “MakeMyDayMonday”. it’s getting the word out as far as random acts of kindness and stuff. good job guys.
[Reply]
Rich or anyone,
Is the union rep position voted every year? Is it a volunteer spot? Does each team have diffferent mechanics as to how one is selected? Does it matter when? I mean it would make sense to confirm them after the opening night roster is set. Just kinda curious if there’s a Union protocol on this. It might make people feel like it’s not so slap dash to get out some of the information if it’s formalized.
[Reply]
I agree that on this blog we should refrain from being political. But it is not political to admit that the US economy is going to continue to be pretty rough for some time to come, years probably.
Let’s hope the players and owners can truly work together reasonably on the next CBA in order to keep hold of fans’ confidence in a far-down economic climate like this one.
Let’s hope they’re aware that a work stoppage in a very bad economy can result in wreckage beyond everyone’s worst fears for a league like the NHL.
[Reply]
scvking Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:52 am
@Pumpernicholl,
Well said. And you are right to make the correct statement that we are suffering with an economy that will continue to be bad for awhile. That is a legitimate statement of fact, and it was said in a proper manner.
The MLB had a stoppage(s) during bad economic times, and neither side gained favor with the financially struggling fan base. But, you are SO correct to make the distinction between baseball and hockey in your “For a league like the NHL” comment, as it truly is an apples to oranges comparison.
[Reply]
my quick $0.02
If they lockout or strike one thing is certain….
My wife will want to occupy my new found free time.
PLEASE DON’T LET THIS HAPPEN TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[Reply]
tuan jim Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 11:42 am
@nykingfan,
O the horror! The horror!
[Reply]
nykingfan Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
@tuan jim,
It will make me long for the days of Fukafuji in goal lol
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
@nykingfan,
My God………What are you saying, man???
Just tell her you are taking up a temporary sport like BADMINTON.
[Reply]
Another work stoppage would be nothing less than tragic. The real problem is that we all know Don Fehr brings controversy and high pressure tactics in his representation of baseball players.
One thing is clear, the salary cap has meant that certain players earn less, and that some players cannot come up “for a cup of coffey” (another nice baseball phrase), even when they are needed, because of their team’s messed up salary structure.
There was a really good discussion of this on the “Hot Stove” last saturday on HNIC with Glen Healy (a serious union dude); you can find it on the CBC website.
It is also very difficult to know what the owners know in terms of revenue. I read recently that the Blackhawks made the claim that they only broke even last year. I do not know if they really said that or not.
But I was watching the unveiling of their American Chopper Blackhawk motorcycle with Paul from OCC last week. I was thinking, “there is no way they just broke even last year.”
I have heard Kings management make that same claim the year before the lockout. I hope this is not a bad omen.
[Reply]
Big Rob in Dallas Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 8:35 am
@Doc. Mark 1968, read recently that the Blackhawks made the claim that they only broke even last year. I do not know if they really said that or not.
I am no way a tax expert. Quicken does my taxes but I think it makes sense tax wise to “adjust” the books to make it look like you had no profit or lost money. This way the IRS cant get rich off you
[Reply]
I think a strike or lockout would be great for the game (Tongue N Cheek)Look what it did for baseball. Then the owners and players got together after the lockout to figure out the best way to bring the fans back to the park…I cant wait to see the “Hockey Steroid ERA”! Players like Simmonds and Johnson leaving the 2011-12′ season 6’0 185 and returning after the stoppage 6’4 275. That will stick butts back in the seats. Juiced Players, Juiced Pucks and Corked Sticks!This too me would bring a new excitement back to the game. Whos wit me? Of course the congressional hearings afterwards would be a bummer. I would hate to see Ivanans lying under oath that he did not ever use roids knowingly…
[Reply]
Big Rob in Dallas Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 8:33 am
@I’m Just Saying”, I am no way a tax expert. Quicken does my taxes but I think it makes sense tax wise to “adjust” the books to make it look like you had no profit or lost money. This way the IRS cant get rich off you.
[Reply]
Big Rob in Dallas Reply:
October 19th, 2010 at 8:34 am
@Big Rob in Dallas, Put it under the wrong thread. Sorry.
[Reply]
@Cubs…greed is not good. I’ll leave it there. It’s destroyed too many things in this country, and in this case, could very easily destroy the NHL. Already almost did.
[Reply]
So with all the odd political postings on this blog posting, is it completely sacreligious to say that I was a little bit happy yesterday that the Ducks beat Phoenix in regulation?
I’m just sayin’…
[Reply]
the bigger issue here has been slightly outlined by RICH – fehr is one of the most astute, shrewd and capable union leader of his generation…while bettman is notoriously known for protecting team owner’s interest at any cost – a skill often used against him by fans and the public at large…
two heavyweights of the free agency era of sports are set to square off over the next year or so in a battle of wills and egos…and not just dollars and cents…
it has all the makings of a pay-per-view event…and win, lose or draw…make no mistake the ones paying – and possibly paying considerably more – will be us…with or without hockey…
[Reply]
Danielle Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
@variable,
I think you just stumbled on the solution! Fehr and Bettman in a steel cage on pay-per-view! Multiple rounds. Winner of each round gets to implement one of their contract terms. By the end, it will all work out.
The money raised can go half to the PA for the retired players and the other half to the league for the teams that can’t reach the salary floor.
I’d pay to see it. I think it would be a worthy investment.
[Reply]
Deke'r Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
@Danielle, Don’t think it would be all that interesting…..hair pulling…..name calling….don’t forget they’re only lawyers!
[Reply]
Danielle Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
@Deke’r,
Might I point out that I’m a lawyer…
variable Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@Danielle,
…and so…
a partnership was born…(!)…
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
@Danielle, @variable,
Okay, you two work out the details. What a solid idea! Nice work, kids!
[Reply]
variable Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
@Danielle,
if i remember correctly from yr excellent analysis on QUISP’s site, yr a lawyer…
so email me our contract terms…the1variable@gmail.com…and i’ll have my peeps look over it…:)
RICH…
can you please ask tim leiweke if AEG would like to host the event…?
[Reply]
Kingsfanone Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
@variable,
Now THAT’S what I like to see……efficiency in action! It’s gonna make a KILLING! Well done variable!!! LOL!
Danielle Reply:
October 18th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
@variable,
I’ll have my agent call your agent and they can conference in the league’s and PA’s agents and we can get a deal done in no time…
I think I know a couple of producers who could even turn it into a reality show like HBO’s Hard Knocks.