OK, let’s get this going. Of course, training camp doesn’t start for another 10 days, but the rookie camp starts in three days, and from that point on, I’m sure we’ll be deep into discussions about the Kings and who has the potential to make the team, etc. So I thought I’d take the next three days to preview training camp and look at some of the more compelling story lines, going in. As the prospects show what they’ve got, no doubt this will evolve, but here are some initial thoughts…
LEFT WING
Twelve months ago, the most logical question about the Kings was, “Who will be the second-line left wing and provide scoring depth?” Despite the progress made last season, collectively, that remains the question at the start of the 2010-11 season, somewhat shockingly so.
An ill-fated pursuit of Ilya Kovalchuk and a virtual swap of Alexander Frolov for Alexei Ponikarovsky essentially has left the Kings exactly where they were at this point last year, hoping that a player can step up and fill a top-six void.
Ryan Smyth is the clear first-line left wing. His presence in the lineup was substantial last season, and received deserved credit for the career year turned in by Anze Kopitar. Beyond Smyth, though, there are significant questions.
Ponikarovsky, signed to a one-year, $3-million contract, seems destined for a third-line role alongside Michal Handzus and Wayne Simmonds. Who, then, will fill the spot that presumably exists alongside Jarret Stoll and Dustin Brown?
Last season, the Kings hoped Teddy Purcell would fill that role. He didn’t. This time, hopes might rest with Brad Richardson or Scott Parse, and in neither case do the Kings have a sure bet.
Richardson played himself into an important role last season and was one of the Kings’ best all-around players, but he has never scored more than 14 goals in a season, and his playing style suggests that of a successful grinder than that of a potential 25-goal scorer. Richardson did have some success in this role last season, however, and might be able to bring more offense out of Brown.
The other option brings even more questions. Parse impressed at times last season, and had 11 goals in 59 games, but also held down a regular spot in Terry Murray’s doghouse because of inconsistency on the defensive end. If Parse can smooth out his game, he has the potential to be a good fit here, but that’s a big “if.”
Beyond that, there aren’t many obvious answers. The second-line role would be a natural fit for Oscar Moller, but first he will have to prove that he can consistently play at an NHL level. It will be a huge training camp for Moller, who can also play center. Kyle Clifford has the potential to earn a fourth-line spot and will also be watched closely. And what will become of Trevor Lewis? Can be finally take the next step?
CENTER
There’s plenty of depth here. Kopitar is coming off the finest season of his young career, with 34 goals and 47 assists, but Murray and Dean Lombardi will be looking for more. Kopitar had a midseason dip in production, one largely attributed to the absences of Smyth and Justin Williams, but in order to be recognized as a top-line center, Kopitar will have to be a scoring threat all season long.
In Stoll and Handzus, the Kings have two “2 1/2” centers. They’re players that teams would be thrilled to have centering their third line, but might be a little nervous about on the second line. Stoll had 47 points last season while Handzus had 42. That’s a steep drop-off from Kopitar’s 81 points on the first line.
Handzus is a rock on the third line, and seems to improve the performance of every winger who plays with him. A duplication of his past two seasons will make the Kings very happy, and Handzus, at age 33, is entering the last year of his contract.
It’s no stretch to say that Stoll will be one of the Kings’ “make-or-break” players. He’s a very responsible two-way player and is usually excellent at face-offs, but he has yet to crack the 20-goal plateau in two seasons with the Kings. When Murray talks about improving 5-on-5 scoring, he has one eye on Stoll. It would certainly help if Stoll had a bigger scoring threat on his left side.
The battle for the fourth-line center spot should be one of the most compelling of camp. Brayden Schenn, Andrei Loktionov, Moller, Marc-Andre Cliche, Lewis and Corey Elkins all have realistic chances to win the spot, and there’s no clear favorite at this point. All things being equal, the Kings would probably like to see Schenn force their hand and win the spot, but it should be a compelling fight until the end.
RIGHT WING
This is the position with the most clearly-defined pecking order, it seems. Williams, Brown and Simmonds are clearly the top three on the depth chart at right wing, and, as illustrated above, the Kings could go in any number of directions on the fourth line.
For Williams, the issue is (surprise, surprise) health. He has missed 116 games over the past three seasons with various injuries, and while he made a valiant attempt to return from injury late last season, it didn’t go well, and the Kings put themselves in the awkward position of having to make Williams a healthy scratch in the playoffs.
This is a contract year for Williams, who will need to show teams that he can play a full season if he hopes to get any type of decent long-term contract. The potential is there, and Williams seemed to have great chemistry with Kopitar and Smyth. When healthy, of course.
Is it possible that Brown might inherit the “enigma” tag one put on Frolov, his longtime former teammate? In Brown’s case, no one questions his desire and work ethic. He’s a respected leader and a tireless worker on and off the ice. But what happened to the production? After a breakout 33-goal season in 2007-08, Brown put up only 24 goals in each of the past two seasons. A return to prior form from Brown could go a long way toward improving 5-on-5 scoring.
It’s difficult to predict what the Kings will do on the fourth line, or who would play which position, but Rich Clune and Kevin Westgarth would both appear to have good chances of making the roster. Westgarth stands to inherit the “enforcer” role, vacated when Raitis Ivanans signed with Calgary, and Murray has long stated his desire to regularly have an enforcer in the lineup.
Clune is a scrappy agitator, in the mold of Sean Avery (minus the destructive attitude), who can also skate well. If Clune can draw more penalties than he takes, and provide consistent physical play, there’s a role for him on the team.
I still see a second tier team with no 40-50 goal scorer. Team will struggle for a playoff spot again without more goal production from everyone –like 30 % more–and it is not there. So its best to develop some of the youngsters and dump the old men that don’t produce 30% more–Brown-Williams included!
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Mickey Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 10:53 am
@Jamer, So your idea of a first tier team is to have a 40-50 goal scorer? There were 7 players last year that scored that many goals. 2 on the same team in Wash… That leaves 5 players. 1 played for TB, and they are hardly a first tier team.
I think more accurately. We need at least one more 30 goal scorer, and we will be fine. Every analysis will say, assuming they are healthy. But if the top line stays together and puts up decent numbers. Brown returns to 30 goal form, and Poni scores as much as he should (which is more than Fro did last year). We will be fighting for a #4 spot, not just a playoff position.
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Sebastian Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:09 am
@Jamer, Kopitar will easily score 40 this year and I dont remember the Kings struggling to make the playoffs last season. How many 40-50 goal scorers did the Blackhawks have last season? Why would a team dump their Captain if he doesnt produce 30% more…where did you even come up with that number? Watch more games and learn some more about hockey.
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Rene Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@Sebastian, The Kings did falter down the stretch. They didn’t cruise into the playoffs. They struggled to score goals and I don’t see Kopitar doing anything different than the past seasons. Teams will check him in the second half and slow him down until we get a sniper.
It’s real easy. If the Kings get a sniper then they will be a top 4 seed. If not, the Kings will once again struggle into the playoffs. I do see them in the playoffs again.
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GregDM Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:36 am
@Jamer,
I’m not sure where you get that “30% more” number. When DL talks about players stepping up and getting improvement from guys, we don’t need as much as you think. Last year (regular season) our goal differential was +22, 8th in the league. If we improved offense (in terms of goals scored) by only 5% and defense (in terms of goals allowed) by 5%, we would have been 5th best in the league (~+45). If we improved offense by 5% and defense by 10% (which I think could be possible with a healthy Mitchell, Greene, and a good goaltending duo), we would have been 3rd best in the league (~+56). The amount of necessary improvement to be a contender might not as much as you think.
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USHA#17 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
@Jamer,
Uhh, think there is still some building to. If it were a house I doubt you’d want to dump all journeymen just so the apprentices could get more time in…the house would fall apart.
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Kwaz Reply:
September 10th, 2010 at 1:03 am
@Jamer,
I just need to get something straight…Brown’s old?
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Good report, Rich, but I take issue with “virtual swap” when it comes to Frolov and Ponikarovski. The former was being asked to carry a line — usually the third — last year while the latter, playing on any of the top three lines in Pittsburgh, was with a center that only Kopitar could compete with. I notice, by the way, that The Hockey News has Frolov penciled in as the first-line left wing in New York. He is going to be missed. Also, I too would like to see Brown’s scoring pick up. But “enigma?” I don’t think Brown has to be a major scorer to be a major contributor.
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Joel Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 10:46 am
@ex-Kings writer, I don’t think Frolov is a good fit for the Rangers’ first line, though I don’t question whether you heard right.
Gaborik plays at a high speed, and I don’t see how Fro’s style complements Gaborik.
I agree that Fro will be missed.
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Dan H. Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
@Joel,
Frolov on the first line with the Rangers will score 35-45 goals. If not I’ll gladly take any crow served however the board wants.
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KC23 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
@Dan H.,
If Frolov ends up on NY’s first line it says a lot more about the Rangers than it does about Frolov.
BTW, how do you like your crow served?
Scot Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
@Dan H., Take it to the bank! Fro will score 35 this year. Make it a double serving cuz I’ll join you.
VanKingsFan Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@ex-Kings writer, I will have to take issue with your “carry the third line” comment. You are realy taking away from excellent seasons by Handzus and Simmonds with this comment. Frolov had a terrible year point wise, and Zeus and Simmonds had Great seasons, so I don’t know why you think that Fro carried them. Fro was also an anchor on the first line at times (lack of chemistry? who knows)
Its hard to gauge Poni’s time in Pittsburg, no he didnt produce very many points, but has ANY winger produced that well with Sid or Geno? Plus it was a very small sample size to go by (19 games i think)
Anyways, I am happy we got him and I think he will fill Fro’s shoes nicely. Probably wont score as many points, but will be consistent and is fairly cheap.
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confusedkingsfan Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:36 am
@VanKingsFan,
By fairly cheap you mean $100,000 more then Frolov, who was never contacted by the Kings, signed for?
And you think he will score less points?
Oh boy.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:43 am
@confusedkingsfan, I will argue that Poni is more consistent, and better defensively. I wasnt comparing his contract to Fro’s at all, just stating what I think about the number
just my opinion Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
@ex-Kings writer, I have to agree with disagreeing about Ponikarovski being a swap. I hope I still be pleasantly surprised but I don’t expect we will see as much out of him as we got with Frolov. Along that line, I don’t understand how so many people expected the level of production from Frolov on the third line as he had on the top two lines. The third line’s job is to shut down the top scoring line of the opposition, not be our scoring line. It’s great if that line is successful at getting scoring but that is gravy. Think back, was Lappy expected to put up 30 goals? When he was able to put the puck in it was an extra for him and his line. I doubt that people will be looking for the numbers from Ponikarovski that they did from Frolov.
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8ball Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
@just my opinion
you call him Lappy-ok.he led the QMJHL in
scoring. of course the team was looking for
scoring but we didn’t get much.you just never
know how it will work.{or not}.
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When was it the Kings were so “struggling” for a playoff spot. From what I remember the team had a fantastic year, 9 game winning streak, broke 100 points (very sencond tier by the way), Drew Doughty as a Norris Trophy finalist… Shall I continue? Why do people have to act like the world is ending before the season starts! Let’s do it boys, I have faith.
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mikeyono Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
@Brittany, How do you think 100 points is a “fantastic” year- when everyone who made the playoffs in the west had 100. Yes- Doughty is a stud but this “stay the course” is getting a little annoying with 16 mil or so cap space.
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sstephen17 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 6:07 pm
@mikeyono, Ummm where are you getting this $16 million in cap space figure from? Cap Geek shows ~$9 mil this season, without Schenn. Next year is ~$26 mil but that’s with a roster of 10 players.
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Brittany Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
@mikeyono, um did you not notice the 22 point increase from the 08-09 season to the 09-10 season? In my books that a pretty fantastic improvement. Going from not being in the playoffs since 02 to finally making it.. also fantastic. Giving the young guys on our team playoff experience, and yes I will go ahead and say the word again, is fantastic. Some fans just need to take a valium and relax! We have a good team, there is no need to go rush out and get a player just for the sake of it, it may sound cliche, but it needs to be the right fit. I trust Dean, he will do the right thing.
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I was waiting for this…..excellent synopsis Rich.
my initial thought was that Parse has a good chance to fill that LW roll. he had some “sniper” type goals last year. If he gets the two-way player thing going he’s my pick.
no knock on Stoll but he just doesn’t have the “it” factor in my eyes. Maybe he can get a new curve on his stick to stop shooting above the glass. I like Schenn to make his move, or even Oscar to have a breakthorugh camp.
The forth line is way to tough to pick….very exciting time to be a Kings fan.
Has anyone seen the line in Vegas for the Kings to win it all? 10/1
GKG
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I’m at tsc and the rookies are already on the ice. Warmup?
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Still at tsc. Just saw Handzus so it is a mixed bag.
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Regarding the second-line LW position, as much as I would like to see one of our own grab the spot, I wouldn’t mind seeing a trade for someone like Patrik Elias. I know, he hasn’t been 100% healthy but he is a proven winner and the Devils need to clear cap-space.
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jpuck Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 10:50 am
@Daniel,
i wouldnt mind seeing ANYONE who can actually do something. take some of the pressure off of brown and stoll in the offensive zone!
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Dan H. Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@Daniel,
While it would be nice to have him I don’t want to do ANYTHING to help the cheating Devils free up their cap space.
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Rich – great summary…very fair in your critique.
My view tends to skew a bit more with exKingsWriter where I’m a bit more doubtful.
Frolov has a much overlooked skill that many are quick to dismiss or forget; the ability to cycle the puck low, cut back against pressure and rarely be knocked off the puck which I predict will be sorely missed – especially on a line with Handzus and Simmonds where they all complemented one another.
We have 2 third line ceners; Stoll and Handzus. Stoll’s high face off win percentage edges him over Zeus, but he’s not going to distribute the puck enough to merit a ‘true 2nd line center’ badge.
Williams – to me – is also not a bona fide 1st or 2nd line winger. I see him as more of 3rd line guy who had some good production years in Carolina, but he’s never really lived up to expectations on the 2nd line.
Brown – if he continues the progress he made last year and stays away from all the running around making loud but ineffective hits – should float between line 1 and 2.
Richardson – to me – is the enigma. He played VERY well last year. Let’s hope he can continue it, but I don’t see him moving above line 2 (at best). More likely, he’s playing on the left of Handzeus.
Parse is a 4th liner until he can prove consistency.
Moeller is on the bubble.
All the rookies are still unproven.
Bottom line: this team has improved its quality in Defence, but still is missing a first line RW (I’d promote DB over JW) and a 2nd line playmaking center.
We’re really missing a 30 to 40 goal scoring sniper…who should ideally be a right-hand shot who can take one-timers from Kopitar on the Power Play.
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@Jammer…I tried to reply to you, but I couldn’t.
I didn’t realize a 40-50 goal scorer was a prerequisite for a top team? Kovi certainly had zero effect in Atlanta, and Jersey is a top team with or without Kovi.
Please, explain to me why you need a 40-50 goal scorer to be a top team?
I do agree that the top 6 scorers need to produce more, I won’t argue that, but since when do you need a 40-50 goal guy to win anything? Last time I checked, the team with more goals at the end of the game, wins the game, no matter what the score is. 1-0 or 9-8.
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I still see Lombardi making a deal right before the season opens to get a scoring winger from some team that is in salary cap trouble.
Otherwise, lets play some of the prospects.
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In an ideal world, the fourth line would consist of Clune-Schenn-Westgarth and the third Clifford-Handzus-Simmonds.
The Kings didn’t need Ponikarovski, as Brad Richardson or Parse could fill that role, play hard, and chip in as many goals at a far less cap hit.
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Jayrew Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:46 am
@TheKingsNeedToGetToughAndDropTheGloves,
Agreed.
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I also like our chances. Kopitar, from what I hear, has been in intense training this summer and I expect/predict that he would do much better (100 pts.) than last year and won’t have the “dip” that he suffered in the middle of the season.
DD and JJ are year older and only getting better. I just LOVE Handzus. Hope they give him an extention.
Brown is great. Rich! Please don’t start anything. He is NOT an “enigma”. He works hard at ALL TIMES. A great leader.
I hope they DO bring back POS. EDM was not a good fit for him and I am NOT worried about him being a “head case”. He will excel with a good surroundings and he has friends in Kings line up.
I have a bet with my husband that Kings will go to WCF for upcoming season. I won last year against him – we had a bet that Kings will go to the playoffs. Ha!
[Reply]
Kingstane9 Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 1:00 am
@ziggyfan, You’re correct, Kopi only had four days off this summer. Had trainings with his younger brother and some other top Slovenian players, led by his father in Jesenice and Bled. So expecting even better season from him and the Kings as well as from younger Kopitar this year.
GO KINGS!!!!
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Why didn’t the Kings sign Modin?
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launch Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:34 am
@deepwater,
uhhhh….because he’s 90 and the slowest skater in the league.
He was a great trade dead line pick up…I agree, but have faith that DL will do something again this year that will have everyone forgetting about FM
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deepwater Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
@launch,
oh, I thought he was only 85. Got alot of ice time for 90. Very considerate of his linemates to wait for him at the front of the net.
[Reply]
launch Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
@deepwater,
grandpa Freddy was one of the bright spots during the playoffs and I think we all wish him well…
gotta tell ya I chuckled out loud…thanks for not getting all mad at me.
8ball Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
@launch,
FM? you’re surely talking about Frank Mahovlich.
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Ahh, the never-ending debate
http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/428/best-burgers/
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Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Brown
LW3-Handzus-Simmonds
LW4-C4-RW4
F13, F14
LW3: Parse, Moller, Schenn, Lewis, Richardson.
LW4: Clifford, Clune (long shot: Kaunisto).
C4: Richardson, Moller, Schenn, Lewis.
Other long shots: Holloway? Loooooooong shot: Kozun. Oh never mind. That’s not happening this year.
My guess?
3rd unit: Parse/Handzus/Simmonds
4th unit: Clifford/Schenn/Moller
press box: Clune, Westgarth
There’s another version of reality in which some or all of Clifford, Schenn and Moller are not yet ready. If all three show themselves to be ready in camp, Richardson will get traded. If one of the three isn’t ready for prime time (Moller still has a waiver-exemption), Richardson stays.
(I think the same thing happens with Ersberg — he’s here until Lombardi confirms that Bernier has “shown up” in camp.)
Yet another variation (that makes sense to me at least) is dealing Stoll sooner rather than later. Take with grain of salt, since I said the same exact thing last September. At that point, I was wondering if Moller would knock him out of his spot. Now, of course, everyone’s wondering about Schenn. Next year, it will be Schenn, Moller and Loktionov. Sooner or later, Stoll is going to lose that job.
Stoll, Richardson, Ersberg — that’s the start of a nice package… who needs a great 3rd line center, a reliable bottom six utility knife and an excellent back-up goalie?
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jammer06 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@Quisp,
If Schenn really is hurt your whole scenario gets blowed up. Hard to trade Stoll if other teams know we don’t have a plan B in order to get good value.
Face it Stoll will end up playing out his contract and likely moving on a la Frolov.
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sstephen17 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
@Quisp, I like the pairing of Handzus and Simmonds. Richardson on that line would really be something as well.
Regarding Moller, I’d really like to see him get some time with more playmakers instead of being put on a line last year with Ivanans.
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Mongo88 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
@Quisp,
I’d like to see them skate like this…
94 11 14
09 28 23
27 26 17
Clifford 15 Westgarth
Clune, Parse
I’m sad to hear about Schenn.
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quisp Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
@Mongo88,
who is 27? is that poni’s #?
[Reply]
Mongo88 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
@quisp, Yes, Thats what the LA Kings website has as his number.
Bossy22 Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 8:46 am
@Quisp,
Why is everyone so sold on Willie on the first line, and Simmy on the 3rd? Willie hasn’t proved Jack… and maybe Simmonds fits better in that shut down role, but he helped us win some games when injuries came into play. Moller has always been a smart and effective player, and is a logical choice for a top 6 role out of camp.
Chemistry……People, HELLO!!!!!
This IS what we wanted and got last year, and it made us successfull. It’s what makes these 30+,40+ goal scorers, for 2 seasons then they are 20 or less. CHEECHOO? Williams, can you name more…I’m sure.
Purcell was excelling in the AHL, nowhere left to go but the NHL, but…small problem, now he does not have Moulson, who as we Cringe…found Chemistry with his hometown friend John Tavarez, now a 30+ goal scorer, this was worth a try by the Islanders, why?? Chemistry has remarkable effects, and is the true essence of this sport.
So who are we going to see want it bad enough, and then let’s watch Murray screw around and put them with Ivanan’s and Harold.
Richardson is why we love this game, put in situations no player wanted, never surrendered and got rewarded….Maybe he can fill any of the voids we have, he was playing for his NHL life last year, maybe this year he can settle down and get 20 or pull a Moulson. The Ducks are just waiting for us to waive him, he was pretty successful with Perry back in juniors.
This is anyone’s chance to become a star, fan fav. or a goat. Skills are only for the highlight reels, don’t worry people help maybe in our own back yard.
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I can not understand why there are still so many pesimistic “fans” around here. No, the Kings are not the Oilers of the ’80′s, they probably will not average five goals per game…
Nonetheless, a largely overlooked fact is that the Kings should take a big step in goals agains this year. JJ & DD will both be improved on the back end over last year. Willie should be an upgrade from OD, and the addition of Bernier will also cut down goald allowed per game. I expect the Kings to improve from allowing 211 goals to a number somewhere around 200.
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number 6 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
@Michael J.,
How much does DD have to improve on the backend? I mean he was already like amazing, so I’m not sure I get that bit. JJ, yes perhaps, but realistically (as I read in an article on some other hockey site) the Kings don’t know if they’re gonna get the ‘pre-Olympics JJ’ or the ‘post-Olympics JJ’. The truth is, neither do we, and depending on which one we get, that could have a big impact on the goals against.
But again, I wouldn’t expect a major improvement from DD (not that it’s not possible). I mean they already mention the guy in the same breath as Bobby Orr.
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Michael J Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
@number 6,
I understand that DD is way beyond his years in understanding how to play D in the NHL, but I can only imagine that his positioning, checking, end zone coverage and the like will still improve over the next years. The same holds true for JJ. I don’t think Ray Bourgue was at the top of his game defensively before he was 21, nor Lidstrom, or Park, or Robinson.
Remember, most players don’t reach their peak until their late twenties.
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number 6 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
@Michael J,
Point taken. I just meant to say that I don’t see it being such a dramatic difference defensively that it’s gonna make a huge difference to cutting down the Kings GA. I think more likely that there will be myriad other factors that come into play that would help before that – speed in breaking out of the zone, how does Quick respond to admittedly having the level of his play flatten out last 25% of the season last yr, and other stuff.
Trade Richie and keep Clune on the roster??? Sounds like a downgrade. What position would you hope to fill by trading those three? Penner?
[Reply]
Quisp Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@Michael J.,
Clune is a different kind of player than Richardson. The point is, if Schenn, Moller and Clifford make the team, then there is no room for Richardson. Unless you think he’s going to be a healthy scratch most nights. (Clune is an agitator and is easy to keep on ice in the press box; with BR, that would just be a waste.)
I don’t have any special hope of getting x, y or z out of such a trade. I’m just saying, Stoll is going to be traded, at some point in the next two seasons, and if Schenn is ready-ready, then it will be sooner rather than later. Ersberg will be moved in the next three weeks, unless Quick or Bernier are inj***d. And RIchardson, I like him — i think he was great last year — but his spot on the team is not guaranteed.
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When the team was playing well, the 1st and 3rd lines were contributing 5 on 5. The second line needs some new blood, so I see Poni and his skill set playing with Stoll and Simmonds.
I really think DL will make a move before the start of the season. My guess is it will be Williams or Stoll along with some prospects going to a team that needs to dump salary,i.e. NJ. Rolston and Travis Zajac? Buy one get one deal. No one will take on Rolstons $5M over the next 2 years, but add Zajac and its a deal unless their asking price is too much.
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Loktionov might not be the biggest guy, but maybe try him as a 2nd unit LW. hockeysfuture lists his playmaking ability as his strong suit, and i recall moeller sayin last year lokti’s vision is NHL caliber.
maybe that vision would help Brown score more on his countless shots and may get Stoll to that 20-25 goal mark.
gonna have to start doing something with all these young centers.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
@jayhay,
“gonna have to start doing something with all these young centers.”
I agree totally. Gotta start using some of these assets we have piled up or they go stale. Especially with all the question marks on the big club. Time to make a move Kings to the next level.
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That was a prety fair assessment Rich.
As others have said..I don’t agree with Brownie being an enigma. He brings so much more than goal scoring ability to the table, but if you’re playing 2nd line, you do need to light the lamp with a little more frequency. there’s no comparison between himself and Frolov as a player. Brownie’s a leader who gives 100% every shift. I couldn’t give a sh** about Frolov any longer. He’s a Ranger. Let them deal with him taking shifts and nights off. He joins Boyle and the rest of the castoffs as players i don’t care about anymore.
One of the biggest keys to the season will be the play of JW. He needs to stay healthy and get back to the form that made that top line one of the best in the league before Smyth and JW got hurt.
He’s basically playing for his NHL future. If he still can’t stay healthy and productive, he can pretty much call it a career.
I can’t wait to see the young kids throw it all out there to make the team out of camp. There are spots open and we have some highly touted kids who need to sieze the opportunity..both offense and defense.
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number 6 Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
@nykingfan,
Hi NYKF. What a summer here huh?! Back to the ‘good ole days”. Like your comments as always. Especially agreed about JW. I totally concur. In life I never like to write off anybody, because it’s just not a good thing to do, but in hockey, it’s sort of a different reality. For sure if JW can’t keep healthy then it wouldn’t appear to be terribly poss for his future, nor would it help the Kings much in terms of stabilizing some sort of first line.
As for Brownie, I see it like you do. I think what was so annoying though was the following: Last two years he scores 24. But if he scored say even 28 but mixed them on a more regular basis throughout the season w/o the big dry spells it would probably help the team more.
That unfortunately was a knock on him (something relating to his ‘o’ being uncertain) coming out of juniors. We’ll have to see if he can smooth that out more.
Later.
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Is this true!!!!
Brayden Schenn WILL need surgery for injured knee…hearing he MAY be out 3-5 months but won’t know for sure until MRI results are in.
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c-nut Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@shorthanded, sad but true.
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Quisp Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
@shorthanded,
hard to tell that
1) you are asking a question.
2) you are quoting.
it’s a rumor.
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Frolov will me missed? Are you kidding me?
It’s going to be great watching a Kings’ game without Frolov farting around in the corner with the puck.
JMFJ is going to have a monster year.
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Bossy22 Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 9:05 am
@JaimeMcCourtisaMILF,
HERE HERE !!!!!
We make the Playoffs after 8 years, Slolov played for us how many of those?
He’s finally there, but WHERE WAS HE???
Brown was 100% Brown….
Jack showed up and even took Stolli’s job on the point during the powerplay, And remember how effective our powerplay was!!!!!
The guys that tasted it will be willing to give it up all season to get there again.
Frolov was 1 more step in rounding this team out to be the contender we are becoming
Hmmmmm…. we made the playoffs during Frolov’s lowest goal scoring year….how many of those 19 were empty nets also. How many playoff games did we play when Frolov scored 30?
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Rich,
Would you please ask the Kings to confirm or refute the claim that Brayden Schenn has a lower body injury that will force him to miss training camp?
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Sebastian Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
@DBB, Just saw that, really pisses me off. How exactly did he hurt himself?
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I think Loktionov is the one we should take a serious look at on the 2nd line. He is very shifty, and as mentioned has great ice vision. It has also been mentioned of him that he is the player that everyone likes to play with because of his passing skills.
My vote:
Loktionov for 2nd line left wing.
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quisp Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
@centericeman,
I loooooove Loktionov. As soon as he is physically mature enough, he will be a big deal in the NHL I think.
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I’d like to see us get Penner for that second line with Stoll and Brown. THAT would be a nice, solid line.
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DBB Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
@Tyler,
At what cost? For Jack Johnson? No thanks.
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Bossy22 Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 9:32 am
@DBB,
Don’t go hoping for a 30 goal scoring Penner at any true value.
Anytime a team is last in the league, riddled with injuries and gasping for air, a player can get more ice time, situational time and forgiveness for all his shortcomings.
Penner has not been a worthy player of his size and stature so far in Edmonton. Doesn’t check or play the physical role he should, and would have been is Murray’s doghouse all season if he was here.
Poni has more upside than Penner, 800k cheaper
Johnson for Hemsky is a much better deal, now that the Oilers are loaded with young talented forwards. Drewiske, or Moller & a 3rd would do for Penner, Williams straight up would work.
Then Penner would have to tow the line that Murray sets, and Penner becomes better all around, but is lucky if he scores 20.
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Is it a longshot to think that Stoll is going to develop more than what he is now???
Well, if they don’t put an LW that is going to challenge him (ala Smyth to Kopi) than YES.
This goes double for Brown. I am worried that his development has hit a rut – have you seen how off his shots are – missing the net by a mile??
Back to Stoll …
He IS one of our best on the face-off no doubt.
What do you guys think?
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Bossy22 Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 10:17 am
@Ari,
Stoll and Brown are done developing, they know where their contributions are felt and needed.
Stoll…. stop knocking him because we need a 2nd line center to score 20+ goals to be successful, We Don’t. Stolls contributions are geater than the faceoff circle as well. He was in the top 3 players in hits and blocked shots. Can man the point on the powerplay, but I do agree this may have become a bit of a liability for him, exposing us to shorthanded attacks due to turnovers, and his first pass through the neutral zone may be my biggest pet peave!!!
But this is Murray’s decision to put him in these situations, where he may not be properly suited.
His success on the point was do to his incredible shot, and being paired with a Veteran powerplay defenceman ( Pronger, Souray ) Yes his shot has drifted away from accuracy, but what you get with Stoll are intangibles that make this team better.
Most teams do not have these traits plus 20+ goal scoring skill at the 2nd line center position, he is a great example to our young centers as to what else is demanded from that position and minutes. Kesler, Fisher do both, we need the wings around him to score.
Brown….his game is his game…..shoots alot, scores occationally, always, always, always present!!!!!! Scoring 30 goals may have been the worst thing that could have happened to him. He was never projected to be that guy. He was drafted among great goal scorers, but it was his embodiment as an all around hockey player that made him such a high draft pick. That’s how he could make the team at 18 as well. His game personifies what we love about hockey. I don’t know very many players in this league that I would trade Brownie for. Mike Richards has all those traits and more offence, that’s is why he got drafted so high in his class. Brown’s contract show’s just what his role is, and it’s a bargain. Teams are paying alot more for 20+ goal scoring 2nd line wings, without all the other traits, leadership and heart that Brown brings.
We could never solve our second line last 2 years, because we could never find the right player to put with these two!!! Maybe he is flying in under the radar ( Moulson ). Maybe we have to much hope and hype for others ( Purcell ). Someone will show up, maybe Moller, Richardson or Parse. Then maybe Holloway, Lewis or
Kuzun. Who will be the next Moulson, the next Purcell.
All I see is Schenn being anything like Brown Or Stoll, they are a Rare Breed.
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LoyalRoyal Reply:
September 10th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
@Bossy22,
“Who will be the next Moulson, the next Purcell”?
Are you asking who will be the next Kings’ bust will be only to be traded and flourish somewhere else? OH LAWD!!!
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Been waiting for this…
1st line is done and obvious: Smyth – Kopi- Williams
2nd line (To start) IMHO should be Parse – Stoll – Brown. Why? Brown is the forechecker, grinder, Stoll is the set-up man, and Parse has the skill to finish. If you put Poni and Brown on the same line, the goal production will be minimal at best. Brown and Stoll need a finisher. Parse is a perfect fit. He just has to deliver AND become a 2 way player like Poni, playing better defense.
3rd line should be Poni – Handzus – Simmonds. That’s a 7mil+ 3rd line, but you’re going to see tons of hard play with Simmer’s speed and Poni’s size. Zeus centering that line will make them that much better. Richie can always come in for any one of them and fit in very well in case there are any problems.
4th line could be a mix of anyone. Richie needs to be there regardless. Anyone else could fit in, but if I had to pick 4: Clifford, Clune, Schenn, Westgarth. Notice I didn’t say Moller.
Here’s the deal with Moller and what I think is on the docket: Everything is dependent on what the bevy of centers do in camp. Moller, Schenn and Stoll are the most important here. I expect all three of these guys to be good enough out of camp to be on the team, but there just isn’t room really. If ANY of the other centers like Loktionov, Cliche, Lewis or Elkins absolutely blow balls and impress the hell out of the big club, Stoll is gone. IF THIS HAPPENS, Moller is our 2nd line center. This is simply because he has the most professional experience AND the Kings have already said (Heard this from Luc personally) that Moller has to be in the top 6 to be on the team and be effective. Schenn would be on the 4th line.
Now if Moller is ineffective, Schenn would be moved up to 2nd line duties and we would have whoever stepped up in camp take over 4th line duties while Moller (most likely) gets shipped out.
The ONLY scenario I could see where we keep Stoll is if we cannot resign Handzus at a discount and we move Stoll to 3rd line duties in 2011-2012. Otherwise, Stoll is gone for picks. We could send Stoll AND Moller+ to pick up our 40+ goal scorer we so desperately need, but I don’t see that available anywhere, really.
By the end of this season, I could see our lines looking like this:
Smyth – Kopi – Williams
Parse – Moller – Brown
Poni – Zeus – Simmonds
Clifford/Clune – Schenn/Richardson – Westgarth/Richardson
I’d be just fine with that line-up. On paper I think it looks pretty balanced…..on paper (LOL).
Awesome to be discussing real hockey again.
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SMYTH-KOPITAR-WILLIAMS
BROWN-STOLL-MOLLER
PONIKAROVSKI-HANDZUS-SIMMONDS
CLYFORD-SCHENN-LEWIS
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I think Parse will take a big step forward this season.
The rumor that he’s a defensive liability is belied by his +13, tied for fifth on the team. Parse will surprise everyone this year….
To those doomsayers, avast ye! The kings are so young that almost all are still improving–and they’re already proven performers at the highest level. They can and will make the playoffs even with no new additions.
But what I expect is that the big trade will come at fire sale time before the playoffs and the kings will try to pick up a big name playoff performer for mostly prospects and then try to keep him for the next few years.
Oh and I have spoken in and at depth with Paul the Octopus and he agrees with me on almost everything.
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I’m terrified of relying on JW so much. He killed us in the playoffs and I just don’t think he comes back to the level he showed at the beginning of last year.
I’m afraid they will move Ponki to his spot and put JW on the 2nd or third lines. Schenn getting hurt really kills the “one of our youngs stepping up and producing big” reliances…
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I liked Fro with the Kings, but we never got what was expected out of him. I agree with his style isn’t exactly compatible to that of Gaborik. I really see 35-45 goals as quite a stretch, lets not forget NYR’s #1 center is Brandon Dubinsky. Solid player no doubt, but not an ideal #1 center.
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Tyler Reply:
September 8th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
@KMCost,
smyth-kopitar-williams
richardson-stoll-brown
poni-handzus-simmonds
clifford-moller-clune
of course 4th line may have too many rooks but I project cliff to be another simmonds and mollere has had decent experience. may not be bad to play 5 mins a game
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sure thing
stemkowski,schultz & kozak.
where are you when we need you?
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I agree with most of you in here.
* I have doubts in JW, but he will ge one more chance.
* I think Parse/Moller would start in 2nd, but I have doubts about them too.
* I really think we need another scorer for either our first or second line. It does not have to be a 40+ but at least a 30+.
* I would love to see Loktionov grab that 2nd line center spot, and I think it is possible.
Smyth – Kopitar – Williams (Will they ever find their way back, otherwise we got trouble)
Parse/Moller/New Player – Loktionov/Stoll – Brown (The hardest line to predict, and so important for our scoring depth)
Ponikarovsky – Handzus – Simmonds (Its a lock)
Clune/Clifford – Schenn/Cliche – Westgarth/Parse? (Richardson could play anywhere here)
…I like Quisps trade bait in Stoll, Richardson and Ersberg. At least it is a start. I like Richardson a lot but we could manage without him, same goes for Mollor. I would love to see him break through in the 2nd line, but he is expendable.
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well,gee lets see. we have a phony front office that pimped its fans. we had a layup, that are front office turned into a f**kup. then we are told on the same day that kovalchuk exits, the kings front office will charge the first installment to there season ticket holders credit cards. gee,i wonder why there is such negativity. for $6.5 million dollar cap hit,we had the guy that solved all our off deficiencies and not only would make us legit,but the buzz and excitement in L.A. would have been orgasmic. now,they sign a guy coming off a major concussion(his 3RD)for $3million,and another $3 million on a poor mans frolov. gee, i wonder why there is such negativity.
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for the top line id go with Symth-Kopitar-Williams(questionable has to show hes healthy)2nd line of Moller-Loktionov-Brown a 3rd checking line of Poni-Zeus-Simmonds and a 4th line of Westgarth-Stoll-Clune i like Loktionov on the 2nd line bcuz of his plassing skills fits he role better than Stoll i think
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number 6 Reply:
September 9th, 2010 at 11:54 am
@Mike Martinez,
I like your line. I’m not sure why as neither Moller nor Lokti has yet to prove themselves at nhl level, but I still like it.
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I really don’t get all this “Scott Parse is bad defensively” garbage. He was 59th in the league in +/- in the limited time that he played. That’s epically good defense. Wasn’t his Corsi outstanding as well (you’d have to ask Quisp)?
The reality is, TM wants him to hit people. Bottom line, “he’s big therefore he should hit” is in play here.
TM just needs to get over it and stop harassing him and let him play. We could really use his scoring touch (was 87th in Shooting Percentage in the whole NHL).
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