Last month, I joked about how someone could write a book about this Ilya Kovalchuk mess. Now, it almost seems like a certainty, doesn’t it? This afternoon, the arbitrator has ruled in favor of the NHL and declared Kovalchuk a free agent again.
I had a quick chat with a member of team management today, and my inquiry as to whether the Kings would consider making another offer to Kovalchuk, should he come a free agent again, was met with a quick and stern, “Are you kidding?” Well, I was half-joking… Since July 1, it’s been prudent to be in the “Believe it when you see it” camp when it comes to this story, so that’s where I’ll remain, but it seems that the Kings are exploring another avenues, for both forwards and defensemen. What are they? All I got was a cryptic, “We’re working on some things.” It wouldn’t be surprising to see something happen at any time, but hopefully it won’t be tomorrow, as I’ll be out of range for half of the day… It seems clear that the Kings’ next move will be a trade, not a signing, and that they recognize the need to make a move soon in order to improve the team.
As for Kovalchuk, it seems natural to me — although it’s just a semi-educated guess — that he will end up signing a one-year contract, either in the NHL or KHL, and climb back on this merry-go-round 11 months from now. Dean Lombardi already got burned on this once, by putting all of his eggs in the Kovalchuk basket.
Life got more complicated when Matt Greene went under the knife, because while it was plausible for the Kings to add one untested young defenseman to the lineup (Voynov, Hickey, Muzzin, etc.) it’s hard to imagine they would press their luck and try for two, even if only for the first month of the season. I’m told there’s some consternation, on management’s part, that Greene’s injury was not discovered until mid-July, although that begs a question. In a sport in which players so often try to push through injuries, shouldn’t teams request/demand (to the extent that it’s possible within the CBA) some type of end-of-season medical evaluation?
Finally, the Kings today announced that tickets for the home opener (Oct. 12 against Atlanta) will go on sale on Thursday through LAKings.com and 1-888-KINGS-LA. Other single-game tickets will go on sale Sept. 9. Tickets to the two preseason games at Staples Center (Sept. 23 and 28) also go on sale Thursday. It seems as though it’s been a good summer, revenue-wise. The team said that it has a 96-percent renewal rate on season seats from last year and that the Kings are expecting record numbers in terms of season tickets and overall ticket sales. Are you joining in, or waiting to see what happens in the next two months?
Well i’m happy the league got this voided, the real question is where will Kovy go now? The NHL can fine both Kovy and the Devils, making it harder to sign him with the financial penalty. Let the games begin…
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Old Time Hockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
@oldthunder, you know Thunder, we had a great NHL before “They” got here and we will still have a great NHL when they are all playing in the KHL or elsewhere.
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Garrett Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
@Old Time Hockey, your comment is awfully bigotted and I’m sad to see that it was left up on this page…
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Old Time Hockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
@Garrett, evidently you weren’t around when guys busted there asses for $5,000.00 a season and were happy to be in the NHL. Bigotted you may think so but it’s to damn bad that someone isn’t politically correct in your eyes and I don’t intend to be.
John Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
@Old Time Hockey ,
Yeah and players don’t anymore ‘cus of the Russians??! Come on dude, THE COLD WAR IS OVER!!!
It’s New Time Hockey.
If the Canadians (and 1 or 2 Americans) did bust their asses for $5,000.00, it was probably because they knew there were THOUSANDS of infinitely better hockey players in the world! They kinda owed to Hockey to bust arse for taking somebody else’s job
Luuuuuuuuuuc! Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
@oldthunder,
How sweet would that be. Fine the devils and put another hit on their cap. Let them re-sign Kovy, then Parise to monster contracts. And them watch them struggle for years to fill out a competitive team. I had a ton of respect for Lou before this. Now screw him.
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I think LA should just call up Kovy camp. Tell them…Hey our last offer is still on the table. You have 4 hrs to decide, otherwise we want no other contact with you.
Get it done, this team needs a guy like Kovy.
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Who Knows? Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
@MiniKing, And then let it get rejected? Our offer has a lower cap hit than NJ’s.
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blah blah Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@Who Knows?,
our offer would not get rejected. its more similar to the hossa deal, which was fine with the league. our offer is 22 million less and 2 years shorter. which means its more likely kovy would play to 42 than 44.
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sd Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
@Who Knows?
But it’s for a shorter length of time. The issue with the NJ contract is that they extended the deal out so far that neither NJ nor IK expects to complete the last several years of the contract.
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Anonymous Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@Who Knows? ,
Dl was going to use the Bell System of structure for kovis contract. Imagine it as a bell, start low, increase during his prime years, and he added a tail at the end of the bell, giving the last years of his contract higher pay to award him to keep playing.
Perfectly legal. Its a great legal contract.
MiniKing Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
@Who Knows?,
Hmmm…I don’t know if it was a lower cap hit or not. I don’t really know what the last offer was. But I’m sure it was reasonable and something NJ can’t really match because of their cap issue that they are in.
BTW, for future references, I am NOT any other poster who use to post here, I’ve gotten Torspo and wwamd amongst others. I am MiniKing..fairly new user who posts once in a while. So please prevent yourself from comparing or concluding that I am some other poster. Thanks!
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Sydor25 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
@Who Knows?,
Lombardi’s offer was $80/13 years. Structured like a bell curve and would be accepted.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
@Who Knows?, DL went out of his way to say that the contracts were not close in structure, and that is what made it far more than the 20 million apart. That to me says that there were no dead years(550k/yr) at the end.
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The Kovi saga is like a cockaroach, it just won’t die. I doubt/hope the Kings will not pursue him any further. Very interested to see what NJ does next, especially if the league decides to fine them.
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skylar Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
@sstephen17, Someone just needs to step on Kovalchuk
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gr81scores Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:15 am
@skylar, Just turn on the lights and he’ll go away. You can never really get rid of him completely.
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I read the report when it came out. It would be interesting to know how the arbitrator came about his decision in light of some of the past contracts allowed (although this was way over the top). Think it’s best to stay out of this soap opera though.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
@Oak Park Geoff, The article I read said there is no time limit to investigate a contract, so Hossa & Pronger should be a little nervous at this moment in time.
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LBlocal Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
@All,
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B4hYOrjFUhfiZjVkMGZkZTEtMTk1ZS00NzhjLThhNzctMWM1ODRmZjA3OGE4&authkey=CNaVz6EG&hl=en
Here is the ruling.
gKg!
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Big Rob in Dallas Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
@LBlocal, Thanks for sharing. That was a good read.
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It’s very unlikely that kovalchuk would come here at this point. We aren’t in the position to pay him an expensive one year contract, then again neither is NJ so who knows where this kid is going to go.
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Old Time Hockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@andy, why in the world would you want to still go after a player that has already stated that he never really wanted to play for you in the first place……….. slow learner???
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Luuuuuuuuuuc! Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
@Old Time Hockey,
Exactly. That bridge has been burned.
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andy Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
@Old Time Hockey, I don’t recall him ever “stating” that.
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Old Time Hockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
@andy, I know I read what he had to say about the signing here on the net here is some of what he said and this is from the NJ paper. “It appeared that Kovalchuk was hoping to sign with the Kings, but he said he never intended to make up his mind when he visited L.A. Nor did he intend to sign on July 1″. Let me look some more.
luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
@Old Time Hockey, I think some replies have been quite well worded. I will just state an example I am sure upon signing there multi year contracts Crosby & Ovechkin made statements like “I can’t imaging playing for any other city or fans etc…” this is just a smart PR move. If one of them demanded to be traded and listed LA as one of the teams that they would waive a no trade clause to can you say that those PR comments would discourage you from signing them?
I did see your prior comment about NHL players playing for $5,000/yr and loving the game, but you can play for millions and still love the game right? It was a different time a better time for fans, but the owners greed was evident then as well. I agree that pay has gotten out of hand and this ruling is great because it will control that. I also beleive it will be spelled out clearer in the next CBA and unless the Economy booms the Cap will fall after the new CBA. I will say this it is a bit disturbing to hear financial security with 100M. I under 6 figures a year so if I were given 4Mil for 1 yr I would consider that financial security for my lifetime. I imaging its the agent that plants a figure in the players mind and it just seems foolish to sign for less then that.
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Space_Shot Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
@andy,
Actually, we are in the exact position to pay him a big one year contract. None of the kids are up for raises until after this season and we still have tons of cap space. Now, I still don’t think he alone will make the Kings a Cup contender, but if they can still find a way to get the D man they’re looking for and lure Kovy with a 1 year deal, why not? It would have zero affect on being able to sign DD, WS and JJ, and it would give the Kings an entire year to work out a long term deal with him if he wants to stay.
That being said, I still think any deal – short term or long term – will be with the Devils this season.
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So after all the time spent on Kovy the Kings wont throw any offer out there at all? That seems a little unreasonable. At least make an offer and say you can accept this but if we make our trade first its off the table.
If you are right about a one year deal it seems even dumber for the Kings not to sign that deal. Do we not have the cap room for this year? And then we would have the leg up next year AND get to see what Doughty, Jack and Wayne want a little clearer. If Kovy really ends up on a 1 year deal the Kings should be all over it.
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Garrett Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
@Brent, do you really believe anything the Kings’ brass says? How many times has Lombardi flat-out lied to Rich and us? They will make him an offer. NJ can’t keep him because of Cap troubles and there just aren’t many teams that can afford him. The Kings teased us for so long on this one and obviously thought he would add something major to the team, so I don’t see how that could have changed in the last 2 weeks.
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To Reiterate:
KoveeBabee and his Agent are right now considering a lawsuit against the NHL for lost wages and collusion. They are on the phone with Sweet Lou shouting his ear off that they WILL NOT GIVE BACK ONE CENT on their deal.
NJ is truly, truly, truly screwed. Either their Cap Hit Credit Card (CHCC) just got maxed out, or they must lose some serious high-priced talent off their roster…
-–Parise, anyone?
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Kwaz Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
Parise would be nice, if that was possible.
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Dominick Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, That’s been my hope from the beginning. Screw Kovalshmuck, I want Parise at a discount.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy, This just means that no Kovi. I don’t think NJ can’t even start restucturing the deal until Bettman decides on the fine which can be up to 5 million(which also will count against the Salary Cap). Remember the structure of the contract first 2 years at 6 mil/yr was because the owner is cash strapped and was hoping to sell the Devils after a good year with Kovi, and have someone else pay the 11.5mil/yr years.
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Dominick Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
@luc20rules, I’ll bet the fine(if any) will be a slap on the wrist.1 mill tops.The NHL will not cripple an NHL team,even for punishment.Not unless they wanted to fold a team so that they could enter another franchise in bigger markets.If that’s the case,why not just pick on the Islanders,or Buffalo?
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KC23 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
@luc20rules,
Actually Bettman has already stated they’ll be no fines. NJ will just take a somewhat bigger cap hit and Kovi will take a bit of a pay cut is my guess. The interesting part is that Kovi’s agent has zero leverage to negociate so if Lou wants to get cheap, it will put Kovi’s agent a tuff position.
Only way I see Kovi coming to the Kings is if Lou and Kovi’s agent get real nasty with each outher and it gets out of hand.
Personally, I’m over Kovi and kind of like the feeling of lots of cap space left.
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We got or tickets waaaaay up in the nosebleeds but worth it
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Atomic Steve Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@tim from the oc, Section 305 Die Hard right here. Where are your seats?
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Howe 9 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
@Atomic Steve,
Another die hard here. Can’t beat the entertainment value for $11.00 – cheaper than a movie. We are in 309, row 5.
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lead feet Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:06 pm
@Howe 9,
WHAT!!!
Im in section 329 row 2. Have been a season ticket holder for 4 years now; Im paying 26$!!
Seriously? Your paying 11$?
Howe 9 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:04 am
@lead feet,
You are paying more because you are in row two. the die hard price starts at row five.
So right after the NHL rejected the contract, DL said that he would still be interested. But now after the contract is officially dead, the mere thought of going after Kovalchuk is a laughable idea? Weird…
Not that we have a real shot or anything. I would be pretty astounded if Ilya didn’t stay with NJ
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jammer06 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
@McDonalds,
To be fair DL was only shopping for one defender back then, and wasn’t sure it was a requirement. With Greene out the landscape is shifted. He’s wary that he won’t have him the whole year.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:21 am
The response was “Are you kidding?” It’s open to interpretation.
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We renewed our two seats and added one for next season. Go KINGS!!!
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Kings’ offer should still be on the table. Although I’m sure Lombardi won’t be waiting anymore. Maybe a take it or leave it deal, and you have xxxx amount of time to accept it. Whatever happens I’m glad the Kings are trying to improve the team.
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threepwood Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
@Chris P. Bacon,
I dunno. Considering how badly Team Kovi played DL (i.e. they were not even CLOSE on their best offer – yet were led to believe that they were), I don’t know if DL wants a guy that he can’t ‘trust’ on his roster.
Yes, I would imagine that this deception was mostly agent’s doing, but still Team Kovy acted in bad faith here.
Tough call – only time will tell.
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If i could afford season tickets and lived closer to LA, I would absolutely get them, no matter what the team looks like. Thats called being a Die Hard fan. Unfortunately I can only afford to go to about 10 regular season games every year.
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Dominick Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
@Sebastian,
I feel ya. I live in San Diego county, and just to go to a Kings game is an all day affair that takes planning. 10 games, or events is just about all I can do. Last year I over extended myself with 16 (including 1 playoff game).
If I lived in LA I would at the very least be in the cheap seats every night. If I had too I’d work nights as an usher,than I’d be a happy camper.lol
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jamesonafterawin Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
@Sebastian, Indeed. I’m in San Diego, and with my pay cut etc. etc. I was able to make it to 6 last season, and one painfull pond game. I do not like that place or the fans for the most part, or the people in the bar across from the pond. Very rude. First I over heard I was an a$$h@le Kings fan while drinking my beer quitly, then I was told I was being to loud during the game, informing my girlfriend of the finer points of hockey.
And it was a loss.
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There is so much shock around the Internet/Twitter world over this deal, which I find surprising. As I mentioned elsewhere, the PA, not the league, likely had the burden of proving that the NHL’s rejection was improper. A small but important distinction.
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pautna Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
@Danielle, I
concur…
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Danielle Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
@pautna,
Interestingly, from what I’ve been able to find, the arbitrator said the following:
“…the System Arbitrator here concludes the SPC terms themselves demonstrate this agreement ‘has the effect of defeating’ the provisions of the CBA, with particular reference to the Team Payroll Range language. For these reasons, the finding is that the League has sustained its burden of demonstrating its actions in rejecting the agreement were in accordance with the bargained authority under Section 11.6(a)(i). Accordingly, the grievance protesting that action will be denied.”
So he seemed to put some burden on the league to prove its rejection was appropriate.
I’m dying to read this ruling…
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John Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
@Danielle,
Probably because, outside of Jersey, Kings fans are the most intimate with this deal. So we are none surprised!
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Already have a 22 game pack. GO KINGS!!
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Rich, I’m a bit confused. The response you got from management was “Are you kidding?”. Does that mean, “Are you kidding, of course we will pursue a two time 50 goal scoring left wing” or “Are you kidding, we are going to pout because he chose a much higher offer than ours?” New Jersey is going to have a tough time resigning Kovy, especially if they get hit with a league fine. I would bet Kovy still wants a long term deal. I hope we make another attempt.
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Matt George Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
@HockeyMatt,
I was confused by that as well..
Was it “Of course!”
OR
“Hell No!”
I can’t figure it out either way by reading it.
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rick Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
@HockeyMatt, Agreed, but I think he is saying that there is no way they will make him another offer. Completely contradicts what Lombardi said three weeks ago. Rich, can you please clarify?
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tuan jim Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
@HockeyMatt,
Of course, the are-you-kidding response could mean, “Why waste time on a squirrely little egomaniac who worked us and worked us until he squeezed the last drop of sperm out of the Devils — the team he’d already long since decided he wants to play for.
I say good riddance to bad rubbish. Every minute we spent on chasing that a$$h*le, every dollar we spent on wining and dining him, is a total bloody loss.
Let New Jersey keep him, if it can. He was very public about his desire to play there. They belong to each other.
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kingsOLY Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
@tuan jim,
I think it was are you kidding, why would i ever give Rich any information when he’s happy just regurgitating what i tell him and doing no analysis of his own.
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O-Dawg Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 11:34 pm
@kingsOLY,
That was a bit harsh. Rich does a great job. I’m sure you can find another blog to bounce your knuckle head comments on. Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you.
Wow, but not a surprise at all. The saga continues, eh?
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Paul From Oxnard Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
@Kingsfanone, Pretty much my sentiments exactly. The contract was so ludicrous that I’m not surprised the arbitrator agreed with the NHL, but WOW!
I think the Kings will simply tell Jay Grossman (Kovy’s agent) that their last deal is still available and I think they’ll turn it down. I believe he’ll now go to the KHL with the expectation of trying again next summer.
What a mess.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
@Paul From Oxnard,
Either way, NJ is really screwed no matter what happens! Can’t say I’m upset.
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So the Kings don’t have end of the season physicals for their players?
I thought that was pretty standard in pro sports these days.
It certainly should be for hockey. I think a guy like Greene has such a high tolerance for pain that he probably thought the pain was not a big deal.
Greene’s like the black Knight in “Holy Grail”. He could be missing an arm (or 2) and he’d still be trying to kick your ass!!
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mfnlakings Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
@stagger, “Your arms off!” Green: “No it’s not!”
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broncoking Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
@stagger, amen, and he probably would kick our ass!!
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
@stagger, ” It’s just a flesh wound”.
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Kovi shunned LA once. He wants to stay beck east because he knows overall the west is tougher than the east. Good luck Kovi! Kings Fans should BOO him whenever he comes to town!
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I am curious why everyone seems to think he ends up right back with the Devils? For that to happen either Kovi would have to accept less money (knowing what we know about Kovi I would say this is unlikely) or the Devils would have to take on a higher cap hit (but Lou is already up agaist the cap). So where does this go from here? Notice the answer to Rich’s question regarding if the Kings would make another offer was retorical (are you kidding me), but not much of an answer. Why would rich be kidding? It seemed like a good question to me. Considering this is a very cryptic response, I would say that nothing is out of the question at this point.
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So, when do we find out of the Devils are going to be fined? Will Kovy get a fine? When does that come down the pike?
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Danielle Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
@TapOut,
I don’t think there will be any fines. Quisp and I have been debating this issue a bit and I am of the opinion that this does not necessarily lead to fines, depending on how the grievance was framed.
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EJ Hradek reported via twitter that Kovi is currently in Russia.
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Who Knows? Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
@jayhay, Lets hope he stays there.
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Well I guess i am in the 4% group not renewing only because of the lack of funds. But god bless the NHL for voiding that contract. All i have to say is we need a miracle, we sure need help up front and on the back end as well, but only time will tell.
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All Right!
Now, I can go back to checking the site every 30 minutes in the hopes of seeing “KINGS SIGN KOVALCHUK”
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Harry Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
@Big Rob in Dallas,
Not worth your cache!
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Dayman Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
@Harry,
haha, i see what you did there
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I didn’t see anything on the penalties levied against NJ, but that just may be coming, but I would imagine NJ can’t make an offer until they know what that might be (Bettman can add a 1 to 5 mil cap hit for following year not sure current or next?). The penalty will likely be steep to discourage any other team from trying to front load again.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
@luc20rules, I should have added the penalty is a fine not just a reduction in cap space, so the NJ owner that structured the contract to pay 6 mil/yr for the first 2 did so hoping he could sell the team after a solid year or cup win, before the 11.5 mil/yr years kicked in. So if Bettman does decide to levy a 5mil fine then that would effectively take NJ out of the running for Kovi.
LA or Russia, Hummm? Well NJ was a diss even with the cash difference, but Russia?
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If Kovi plays the NHL this year it will be on a one year rental contract.
Doubt there is a GM out there willing to touch him with a ten foot pole after this ruling and the CBA being up in the air next year.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Token, I doubt any GM blames Kovi, he is depending on his lawyer/agent and the GM to know the rules of the CBA. Many think Kovi has the equivalent education of an 8th grader in Russia, this coupled with the foreign language of english well do you actually think he has even read the CBA? My
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Token Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
@luc20rules, I’m sure Kovi set the price he wanted at 100M, but this has nothing to do with him personally.
I just don’t see a GM making an offer to him longer than 12 years after this ruling has been made and no one in the league is likely to give him a 100M deal anymore. There just isn’t enough cap where money is spent.
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Luuuuuuuuuuc! Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
@Token,
Maybe, but it has everything to do with him when it comes to that press conference. He needs to stay out of LA.
I just want to see the Kings finally do something. Yes I would like to see Kovi in a Kings uniform, but at this point I could care less where he goes.
Go Kings!!!!!
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Jeff Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 7:14 am
@blckbsct,
Plunk down your cash for another season of mediocrity kiddies.
Kovi will probably go to the russian league, he won’t be a king.
we won’t make a trade, so the way the kings are now at best see an early 1st round exit in playoffs
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Instead of reading the book about this debacle I think I will wait for the obligatory movie. I wonder who will star: Tom Cruise could play Grossman (similar to his “Tropic Thunder” high-powered agent persona). For Lomabardi…Steve Carell? …and Rich could be played by Viggo Mortensen. I am stuck on Kovi though…
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kluka68 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Kwaz, Do you think we will hear : “show me the money” one more time
?
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Kwaz Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
@kluka68,
I think that’s the name of the movie!!! ; )
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Kwaz Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Kwaz,
Perhaps Kovalchuk could be played by a money-eating Sarlacc pit…on skates!
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vicarious Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
@Kwaz, May I suggest the handsome Russian, Alexander Frolov, to play Kovy. Frolov used to live in the South Bay, rumor has it.
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Kwaz Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
@vicarious,
I think he’s going to play him in the Broadway stage version…
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Gislaw Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
@Kwaz,
Cruise is already doing a ‘prequel’ on his character’s origin in Tropic Thunder, which should be released in the next two years or so.
Probably will be pretty shocking…more so than this Kovy nonsense at least.
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Let’s talk a hypothetical here guys….How would Kings fans welcome a guy who already pledged his “heart” to the New Jersey Devils?
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NOT IMPRESSED Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
@Paul From Oxnard, Because most players today pledge their hearts to the team that presents the most money. There are countless championship teams in ALL sports that have problems in the clubhouse/locker room. I could care less if Kovi gets along with Kopi as long as we put the best team on the ice and win the cup. Its about winning the cup, not about getting along with each other.
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demob Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
@Paul From Oxnard,
For those of you who say Kovy has already pledged his allegiance to NJ…don’t you know that’s whay you are supposed to say when you ‘think’ you have signed a contract with that team. Do you think he is going to say I’d rather be in LA but I’ll settle for NJ. Come…get over it. DL should not let ego get in he way of what is best for the Kings. Extend an offer with an expiration date/time. If he does not accept move on. Just think how Shaq always says the team he is on and players he is with are the best…then when he is an FA he always says Kobe’s the man…
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I can’t believe for a moment that DL wouldn’t tell Kovi’s agent that the deal is on the table for a fixed amount of time. If we were ready to do it two weeks ago and little has changed, then we’ll take a shot at it now. NJ is screwed because they can’t afford this guy and they’re other key players, and if they unload a bunch to afford Kovi, he won’t have the players around him to go for the cup. Nope…. if you’re listening, Kovi, take the Kings last best offer. No one else is going to give you close to what you want…. cause no one else has the cap space and the young talent to meet your most important needs.
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As much as we wanted to renew, we had to pass. My industry is currently dead due to the economy and my wife’s is finally being threatened. If we can get free of this mess in the next couple of months we’ll be back.
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Gettin the impression most people commenting here are in favor of extending our offer we had for him, the 15 year deal. I don’t believe our deal would be circumventing anything, as our deal was paying over a Mill in the later years, which may not be close to what Teemu signed for today but no one could accuse us of making a mockery of the CBA. He wanted to sign here but, seriously, that deal was just too huge to walk away from, and as we know now, too good to be true. Give them a window, 2-3 days, and go from there.
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Sydor25 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
@jayhay, It was 13 years.
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jayhay Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
@Sydor25,
15 years, it had him playin till he was 42. the rejected deal was 17 years and had him playin till he was 44. im sure there was a few deals that came and went, the one he left on the table tho, was 15 years. i do forget the value, however.
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jayhay Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
@Sydor25,
saw your post above, you seem confident. i may be mistaken, but i thought it was 15.
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Sydor25 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
@jayhay, Lombardi said it twice in a radio interview. Don’t have the link on my iPhone, but he said 13 years and it would take Kovalchuk to forty.
I would love the Kings to pursue Willie Mitchell. If he is healthy, which all indications are that he is, Mitchell one of the best defensive defensemen in the league. He would be a perfect replacement for Greene.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
@hockeysureshot,
Agree 100% … I don’t think he will come to LA though unless we overpay
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John Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:19 pm
@VanKingsFan,
Overpay then, $1.5M-2.5M.
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puck73 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@hockeysureshot, Been saying this for months, welcome to my world..this is a recording.
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Paul From Oxnard Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
@hockeysureshot, I still believe on that hours before Kaberle’s no trade clause kicks back in the Kings will acquire him, probably for Brayden Schenn. We all know that Brian Burke was steamed that he couldn’t draft Schenn so he could have both players together in Toronto. I’d bet if the Kings are after Kaberle that Schenn has to be going to Toronto to get the deal done, and I think it will get done. Especially if the Kings really are as nervous about their defense as Rich seems to indicate they are.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
@Paul From Oxnard,
I can’t see Schenn being traded at all, for almost anything. NEVER would we trade him for a one year Kaberle rental.
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NOT IMPRESSED Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
@VanKingsFan, Agreed,,DL is not that stupid, I mean not that despret.
puck73 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
@Paul From Oxnard, Brayden Schenn and Jon Bernier are untouchable, they arent going anywhere and tell Leafs fan to stop smoking his socks !
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Paul From Oxnard Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
@puck73, Obviously that’s your purple and gold heart speaking. Schenn is certainly not untouchable. To Dean Lombardi he’s no more then a chip – a bargaining chip. Sure, he’ll look great in a Kings jersey if he ever gets here. But right now he has as much chance of being traded as he does of playing for the Kings.
And as for Bernier, I’d be more inclined to agree with you but again I wouldn’t say he’s untouchable. He’s done very little in the NHL so far. Lombardi had the identical situation in San Jose with Kiprusoff and Nabakov as he does now in LA with Bernier and Quick, and Kipper ended up in Calgary. One of our 2 “top” goalies will get traded sooner or later. Plus we have Ersberg, Zatkoff, Jones, etc.. who are all at least NHL capable if not better.
John Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
@Paul From Oxnard,
If you are correct sir, it will be for Luke!
deadcatbounce Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
@hockeysureshot, But if he’s healthy then why have 29 other teams not made an offer to him yet?
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hockeysureshot Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
@deadcatbounce, I think many teams do not have cap flexibility, and Mitchell is somewhat of a risk. It’s a risk worth taking if I’m Dean Lombardi. The guy is an absolute warrior. He’s a block the puck with his face kind of guy. For a couple million bucks, which the Kings have, it’s well worth the gamble of him being healthy.
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:09 am
@hockeysureshot,
Jeff Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 7:18 am
@hockeysureshot,
I am sure any journeyman defenseman could fill his shoes. Never really figured out the hype about Greene. Horrid skater, no shot from the point, but I guess when compared to that nightmare of a defender Jones, almost anyone looks good.
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All you people who still want IK, ponder this. There has been all this drama so far. Presumably that can only lead to more drama with the team that signs him. A relationship that’s strained before marriage only gets worse, not better. Since he signed with NJ, the drama has only increased with no end in sight.
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NOT IMPRESSED Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@VBunker72, Why does everyone worry about the players getting along. There are countless championship teams in ALL sports that have problems in the clubhouse/locker room. I could care less if Kovi gets along with Kopi as long as we put the best team on the ice and win the cup.
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VBunker72 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
@NOT IMPRESSED,
Agreed as far as putting the best team on the ice. With that said, there must be chemistry and not just skill on a team as well. You put a team of all-stars together, and you have just that. Theoretically you have put the best team on the ice, (1980 Russian Olympic Hockey Team). Doesn’t necessarily mean you will win the cup.
This guy is surrounded by drama. One guy can taint a locker room and a playing surface, which can negatively affect the total outcome. Speaking from experience, I would rather have 2 good players that play hard and make the group around them better, than have one player that has a lot of skill, but comes with a lot of drama, and is selfish. You have the potential of having a resentful team, that doesn’t have their heads 100% in the game. Which is counterproductive to winning the cup.
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What's the frequency, Kenneth? Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:24 am
@VBunker72, Why is it strained by the Kings? They’ve been pretty straight.
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Rich, let’s have a poll to see who the slow learners are here still wanting to sign a guy who said he really didn’t want to sign with the Kings in the first place. I’m sure he would sign for a huge, huge, huge amount, but I really doubt he would play half as much in return, He would be to tired from the Eastern road trips and to Western Canada.
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Nitrohockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
@Old Time Hockey, I know you’ve stated that Kovalchuk said he really didn’t want to sign with LA anyway, but how much of it is fact, and how much could just be his camp blowing PR smoke up NJ’s keester? How often have we heard that a player is “excited to be a part of (insert team here)? Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t, but it’s just good business to say you’re happy. I think only Kovalchuk can honestly answer that question.
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justlu Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@Old Time Hockey,
What was kovi supposed to say at the press conference for the devils ? “I really wanted to go to LA but they didn’t offer me enough money?”.
Of course he is going to praise his employers and make statements like I never wanted to play there in the first place. At that point he is trying to endear himself to the NJ fanbase not the LA fanbase. This guy is happy to go wherever the money is best… period. And if he goes to Russia on a 1 year contract then we also know his family first and school speech is just BS.
The guy is a real talent and as a Kings fan for over 25 years I would be glad to see him change his story and come to LA.
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OldTimeHockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
@justlu, Nitro, I agree with both of you about his talent, but, do you think that he would give his all if he signed for 1 year and could walk the next?? He sure as heck wouldn’t want to get hurt knowing he had free agency coming again. Ask the Canucks about Sundin and their 10 million dollar contract for a single season. I just don’t believe he would bleed Purple for the Kings. As it was noted, him and the Devils are already talking. All of a sudden we NEED to win the Cup this season. No we don’t, we need to go as far as we possibly can and once again everyone forgets or they act like it, that we have one helluva team.
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justlu Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:11 am
@OldTimeHockey,
Sundin was 38 years old when he played for the canucks. I think that is a little different than getting a player in his prime.
It is assumed by many including myself that kovi is motivated by money. In order to increase his asking price wouldn’t it be logical to think if he signs a one year deal, no matter what team he plays for, that he would work his ass off to increase his asking price in the next contract negotiation ? If he produces then he’s worth it and if he doesn’t then he only costs himself money in free agency ala Frolov. Most players put up their best numbers (in any sport) in contract years. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of signing him to a large one year deal that way the Kings really can see what they are getting and if it doesn’t work out they will still have the money to sign DD,JJ, and Simmonds next offseason.
I wouldn’t be against floating our last offer to them, giving them a timeframe, and seeing what happens. Leave Kovi with a parting thought. “Russian winters are snow and ice, but LA winters are mighty nice!” Hell, throw in a shot on American Idol for his wife and we may have a deal!
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fourtunato Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
@Nitrohockey,
I think offering her a shot on Househunters International would be a better fit. St. Petersburg, here you come.
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
@Nitrohockey, How many times does DL have to say that he doesn’t want people here who want to be here for the warm winters?
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Nitrohockey Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
@deadcatbounce, Well, at this point what else can we offer? It’s not like we can boast Stanley Cup Championships. Go with what you got for now. Once we win a cup, then we can move away from the LA weather angle, and concentrate on the winning angle.
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How did that taste Kovalspank ? Kovalpud, kovalsdork, Kovalnob !
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The Devils should sign Kovi for 9 mil this year and then trade him to the kings in February for an 89 Buick, a bag of Doritos and a 7th round draft pick.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
@fourtunato,
What? No stick of gum or after dinner mints? And I won’t give up my Doritos!
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@Kingsfanone, Kovi will demand the Dorito’s be surrendered without 100M contract he will need to be able to tell Hockey Groupies that he is all that and a bag of chips.
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fourtunato Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
@luc20rules,
That is very funny.
Offer the guy a one year deal, since thats more than likely what he is going to get anyway. You should get a highly motivated guy who would play for anyone in a contract year.
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Message to DL: Do not pursue this bum. Let him go to he KHL for one year and start the merry-go-round next year. I’m more concerned with our defense (with Greene out for the 1st month or two)Yes, DL put all his eggs in one basket, and bit him in the arse, while all the top tier (Defensive FA’s)have signed. Now leaves us with having to trade to fullfill our needs.or, just maybe, management has no intentions on pursuing any further players blaming it all on Kovi, and trying to convince the public that they were big players during the summer, but just didn’t pan out.
I’m just really afraid that when the time comes, Drew, JJ and the likes will not want to stay around because management is more concerned with putting soccer fans in the seats.
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Buster Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
@oldtimehockey,
“Message to DL: Do not pursue this bum.”
Are you referring to Kovalchuk or Jones? If it’s the latter, it’s giving bums a bad name.
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One thing I wonder is why so many people seem to think that Kovalchuk will only sign a one-year deal now? I didn’t think the CBA expired until after the 2011-’12 season, so it would probably be more beneficial to sign a long-term (I’m thinking five to seven years reasonably) now instead of waiting and quite possibly inking a new deal after there’s a new CBA ih place, probably with more cap and contract restrictions.
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Kovy just signed with the rangers 10 years 50 mill a year now its just him and gabrik and gabby will probably get hurt (jk)
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I love the Kings. I’ve been getting more and more fed up with sports though. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Ilya being on this team. I could care less how good he is. There are many many things happening in this world that are not good, many the result of pure greed (see bad mortgages and BP oil spill for just the edge of it), so if a guy who plays a sport he supposedly loves can’t manage ‘for his family and future’ on less than 100 million dollars, it’s my opinion that he doesn’t have a very clear or level mind. And I’d rather have players who do have above ingredients on the team.
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puck73 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
@number 6, The gap between the cost of living and the minimum wage has widened so much over the last 31 years that these politicians have fused the middle class together with the poor. Plus you factor in that basically nothing is made in America anymore and that is another big problem that Obama has to deal with. Also, because of the near elimination of the upper middle class my dad still has to work at 75 so yes, Kovalchuk and Grossman not getting millions…I could care effin less !
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
@puck73, You forgot too mention the trillions of dollars that is going to the Iraq & Afganistan to stablize a region that will just fall to a anti-US regime within a few years of US troops evacuating the area. Lets face it those areas are driven by tribal factions and not the right climate for democracy. Just because democracy is the best system in the world does not mean it will work everywhere in every moment in time. I will say this though the men and women in harms way deserve all the support we can give them. I just believe that what they are attempting to acheive is not sustainable, and the most support we can give them is to get them home sooner rather than latter.
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rontheking Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
@luc20rules,
I agree–Kovulchuk needs to be sent to Afghanistan!
Whoo-hoo!
puck73 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
@luc20rules, Agreed. How bout some more greed and selfishness examples ? Well, United Airlines getting the employees to take a paycut only to find out that the executives voted themselves bonuses ? How bout Greenspan telling everybody that housing values goin up 50 to 100 grand a year between 200 and 2006 was ok, nothing to see here, or my warehouseman making 20 bucks an hour and qualifying for a 4oo thousand dollar home ? How bout former governor Pete Wilson deregulating the utilities companies ? Yah, that was a brilliant idea ! Looks like the days of reckoning have arrived.
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
@puck73,
Almost sounds like you live in the Central Valley, Brother!
number 6 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
@puck73, and luc20rules,
Guys, I know that Rich and a lot of the others don’t appreciate when this blog starts turning political. Nonetheless, I appreciate very much your consciousness about the things you’ve commented on, because I can’t personally just sit here and say ‘oh, Kovi’s a free agent… DL’s offer blah blah’ Or the contrary ‘Kovi and Grossman’ are such and such.
There is a point where this goes over the edge. If that hadn’t been the case I think the arbitrator would have just ok’d the deal.. but it’s an indication on another level that something has simply gone way way out of balance.
It’s great that he can shoot a puck into a net like few other players (and I mean that sincerely) but there are also many other human beings around who do extraordinary things everyday, we never hear about them, and they certainly aren’t earning ridiculous amounts of money. The ‘but these guys are in the entertainment business’ only washes for me up to a certain point and not beyond.
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I just think Kovy will quickly sign another contract with NJ for as much money as he can. Every free agent dreams of the day when he can sign a max contract and secure his financial future and this is his time. I doubt he will want a one year contract – he will take the most money from the club that offers it and that will still be NJ. Russia will be his new negotiating ploy with the NHL GM’s. I say we sign two players to replace him and split the money two ways.
P.S. I hope the Kings go back to the Purple and Gold uni’s full time. Those colors are synonymous with championships.
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tuan jim Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
@Shutout,
Silver and black. That’s when we got past the second round.
Purple and gold are for basketball. When we sported those colors we had trouble getting outa the toilet.
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I don’t think we should give him the same offer. He rejected it once before. Now, we come back with a competitive offer for less years and less money. Given the cap issues around the league, I’m sure we could make an offer as good as anyone’s.
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The first thing Kovi should do is fire his agent. I’ve never seen a free agent handled so poorly….well, except Cleveland’s handling of Lebron. But, I digress.
The agent clearly failed to ascertain his client’s value in light of the current salary cap.
Very few teams were even in the bidding (and I use that term loosely) due to lack of cap space.
Knowing that (and the unrealistic view that Kovy would prefer the KHL to LA or even NJ), it should have been far easier to construct a deal with few bidders.
There’s no way that it should have lasted as long as it did.
As an unrestricted free agent (again), Kovi should be pissed at the Devils for allowing him to be introduced at a press conference when NJ was told the night before that the NHL was going to challenge the contract.
I’m assuming that Kovi had no idea about that conversation because I’ve no idea why he would have agreed to a press conference, basically forcing him to stay with NJ.
NJ should be glad to be free of the contract that they agreed to. They couldn’t afford Kovi. They lacked cap space and would have had to dump a high priced forward as they still need another puck moving defense
man to replace the one that they lost.
I doubt NJ (and certainly not Kovi) will be fined and the upshot is, Kovi is a free agent.
His options are still incredibly limited.
There’s no way, DL is going to completely rule out Kovi. He can’t possibly be upset that Kovi accepted NJ’s much higher offer.
IMHO, LA is still in the best position to acquire Kovi.
And when we do, nobody (in LA) will boo when he produces.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
@MartinRW, I agree with all your points, except the fine and action against the GM and/or Agent Grossman. For Bettman and the NHL this was like a Crusade he had to stop these contracts at all costs, and does not want anything like the Pronger, or Hossa deal either to be made either. How does he make that a reality? Well its simple levy the max punishment(5 million fine to NJ which will count against the Salary Cap and/or 1yr suspension for GM and/or Agent. However, I do believe Lou verbally crediting owners with the financial terms may have saved him from a suspension.) so one will risk adding dead years to the end of a contract again.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
@luc20rules, The Crusade continues Hossa, Savard, & Pronger Contracts to be investigated.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/432980-another-one-may-bite-the-dust-nhl-investigation-marian-hossas-contract
Chicago can you say “From Cup, to Rebuild” I knew you could. Now how about “Asterisk – Cup Won While Circumventing Salary Cap” good, I knew you could.
Wow, 3 of the final four were circumventing the cap.
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Hey Rich:
There was a rumor a while back that Dean Lombardi was asked by the NHL to appear at the Kovalchuk hearing (or otherwise provide testimony). Any substance to that?
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Everyone shouting from the rooftops to shun Kovy will be singing a different tune if Dean decides to swoop in and sign him. He’ll score a spectacular goal at the opener and we’ll cheer and embrace him like he was the second coming. Let’s just see what happens.
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Pumpernicholl Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
@Krusher, I honestly don’t think anymore that a 40-goal-scoring Kovalchuk (let’s just see if he can get 50 — I have big, big doubts) can even live up to the vast level of hype that has developed around him this summer.
Mark my words, the Devils will find him to be a headache long before they can get rid of his contract. And we will be glad he didn’t bend us over and limit our player movement options for years to come.
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Hey, if it is true that Kovalchuk will probably end up with a one year contract, doesn’t that put the Kings in the best position to rent him for one year given current payroll and the necessity of signing DD and others starting next year?
Or have I been smoking something from Afghanistan?
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LA fan 4 life Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
@rontheking,
it would seem logical that teams will be afraid to offer a huge long term contract after todays ruling. If they do offer the big year contract, front loading it will be untollerable. They will have to spread the salary out over the full span of the contract. And it will have to be for way less then 17 years (<– rediculous). Technically signing a contract, with intentions on breaking the contract (retire b4 17 years) is illegal. So i would expect a much shorter contract durration.
So a 1 year deal is a strong possibility, as for the it coming from the Kings, i would think not… kings wont fork out 10 mil for 1 year. They would do a 5 or 6, but kovi wont want that a puny 5 million dollars after seeing 10-11 mil on that rejected NJ contract. Kovi needs to re-evaulate who he is. He wont get his desired 10 mil a year from anyone, and he has to know that no team can legally afford to pay him that much. If he cannot overcome his financial desires, KHL might be the best place for him.
my prediction: KHL
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rontheking Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
@LA fan 4 life,
This stuff is way over my head, but…right now the Kings are almost 13 million under their cap space for 2010-2011. I might be missing something, like players who still need to be signed for this season(?)…but hey….
He could do a year here and then go over to the KHL the following season during the next NHL player lockout.
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From the ESPN NHL website:
The decision put Kovalchuk back on the market as an unrestricted free agent, and the high-scoring Russian already was talking to the Devils again.
“While we do not currently have a contract with Ilya Kovalchuk, discussions have resumed and we are hopeful that a contract will be reached that meets with the principles in arbitrator Bloch’s award and the NHL’s approval,” New Jersey president and general manager Lou Lamoriello said.
The Los Angeles Kings, New York Islanders, Devils and SKA St. Petersburg of Russia’s Kontinental Hockey League had talked with Kovalchuk after free agency started July 1. The final decision had come down to the Kings and New Jersey.
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kq949 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:38 am
Hey Lou…I’m sure OTHER teams are “in discussions” with Kovi too!
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We should still make an offer (with conditions) for Kovi if the entire organization (especially the players) would accept him and the price is right. However I would think we would be much better served by taking another NJ player(s) off of their hands. Kovi’s value has diminished quite a bit in my eyes and signing him could be dangerous. He brings too much baggage.
And we should NOT trade Schenn. Period.
And for my naysayer friends wh think we have everything we need right now, I suggest you read the thread header once again ” they recognize the need to make a move soon in order to improve the team”.
GKG!
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
@crashin’ da net, I think the Kings feel really good about Fransson as the #4 D-Man. They did not say 3 they said 2 Untest D-Men to start the season.
Kovi is a good fit for the same reasons as before all this transpired. His remark that NJ was his first choice was purely a PR move in NJ and I am sure he wouldn’t of made it if he thought there was even a 1% chance this would play out as it did. He went for the money and really if we looked in distain for that reason alone we would have to trade Zues & Scuds for they came to the Kings for the money, and that would be a huge mistake.
I have always been on the fence with Kovi as I knew he wanted more money than his peers. I just couldn’t see paying more than Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, or 14 some players that are better all around hockey players than he is, but now there is a chance he will sign for much closer to his actual production. If the right deal is there it should still be made and I leave that too DLs evaluation.
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crashin' da net Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
@luc20rules, The force is with you Luc….
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Maybe if Kovalchuk wants something cush that doesn’t take much work he can always become city manager for Bell.
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bingram Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
@deadcatbounce, The total compensation package for the Mayor of Bell is larger in years 12 through 17 than Kovi’s.
Thank you. Made me LOL!
Go kings go!
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
@deadcatbounce,
No, he should be president. It would only be fitting for a Russian to be president now that our country is being run like the former Soviet Union.
He can take a helicopter from the White House to the rink…
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Am I the only one who thinks that New Jersey could / will simply make the same offer that the Kings made and Kovy will sign again for NJ?
I’m not sure why so many Kings fans are so optomistic that Kovy would even consider signing with us…?
Enlighten me, please?
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number 6 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
@Mucker,
Sir, you need no enlightening….. as you’re spot on, so there really is nothing to enlighten.
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Stevie T Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
@Mucker,
I think people are hoping that this saga has turned Kovi sour towards the NJ organization and would possibly look elsewhere. It’s a far fetched idea but it’s fun to speculate.
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Steve McQueen Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
@Mucker, because Kovi still wants to make 100 million, and hasn’t shown any interest in making less. Like Rich pointed out, he may sign a 1 year deal and try again next year.
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art Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
@Mucker,
I think that Kovy would rather play in Los Angeles than NJ with the money being equal. I think he came to LA to see if we could get closer to what NJ was offering. I think he tried to drag it as long as he could with LA because he really wanted to be here. When it was time to sign he simply couldn’t pass up the offer from NJ that was 25% higher in total value and basically guaranteed 95 mil over 10 years, something that LA was not close too. I can’t blame Kovy for making the decision he made. He’s basically got 10 years left to make all the money he can before he retires.
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Very, very surprised they voided the deal, I didn’t think it would actually go through. With that being said, I’d be surprised if Dean didn’t make at least ONE phone call to Jay Grossman, see if his client is still somewhat interested.
Kings need to improve, and improve quickly. They lack a 2nd line LW and another dman..
Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
XX-Stoll-Brown
Poni-Handzus-Simmonds
Richardson-Schenn-Lewis
Clune, Westgarth, Clifford
Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-XX
XX-XX
Drewiske, Harrold
lol, quite embarrassing.. Going into training camp, Brad Richardson would be our second line LW
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
@AK47, I wouldn’t be suprised if Richardson & Schenn share duties as 2nd line LW as well as Parse being a spare Forward, and you forgot to put Johan Fransson – D with 5 years experience in the Swedish Elite League on the roster. We are only allow to carry 23 players, 20 active my guess inactive players are Westgarth-F,
Parse-F, and Harold (D,F). My guess is Lewis will platoon with Clifford, Parse, & Westgarth. I see Harold winning a starting spot based on experience and versatility. The other spot Drewiske may have a lead, but there are several others that could take the spot with a great camp.
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Justice is served…..
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:54 am
@Moondoggie, Yep, looks like Kovalspank became Gary Bettman’s back door man !
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I’m rooting for a ONE YEAR DEAL here.
we have the capspace, we need the help and might be a good trial run to see how he likes it here and how we like him.
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luckyluc13 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:57 pm
@losingsand,I agree.We have the cap space to offer a 7-8 mil,which is more than he would have made in Jersey for next year.If he does well then he can go Treasure hunting for a long term deal
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Naturallawyer Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
@luckyluc13, if it’s one year, it’ll be for $10M, and it won’t be with the Kings.
[Reply]
luckyluc13 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
@Naturallawyer,Yeah,I know Kovi wants 10 mil,but can any team afford that or be willing to pay that kind of money if feel they are not contending for the cup.I just want the season to start already,with or without Kovi.I will be watching either way
imo..deano should make another logical offer for KOVI.. he keeps saying he wants to sign DD, JMFJ, SIMMER, but if the team doesnt produce what makes him think dd or jj are gonna be wiling to sign the up coming year…but if we were to bring a big time super star and have a great year the kids would want to sign in hopes of winning a cup soon…even if the offer isnt as much…… what you guys think ?
[Reply]
Miller29 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
@kings need phill jackson,
It would be stupid to not try again. I keep hearing these quotes:
“It’s just a business.”
“You can’t take this personal.”
“don’t marry yourself to players.”
over and over again, in addition to others. If we are to believe this, it would be a foolish business move to not try and sign this guy now that you know everyone’s cards that are on the table, and you know the contract we were “so far away” on is thrown out the window.
But then again DL has been accused of being a spiteful and cheap GM who isn’t able to multitask. We just have to wait and see.
Can somebody shake the magic 8 ball and see what Kovi’s mom predicts?
[Reply]
dMan Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
@Miller29,
“But then again DL has been accused of being a spiteful and cheap GM who isn’t able to multitask. We just have to wait and see.”
Link please.
[Reply]
dMan Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
That is outside of the posters on this blog.
Miller29 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:26 am
@dMan,
Sorry, no link at my immediate disposal. It’s from what I’ve gathered here, at LGK, HF, and other various websites. You can’t deny that DL has his critics and if you have never heard of those criticisms then you haven’t been paying much attention.
rontheking Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
@Miller29,
Ask Paul the Octopus…he’ll know!
[Reply]
deadcatbounce Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
@kings need phill jackson, The playersr you mentioned are going to be RFA’s, so they have no real choice in their destination unless someone is willing to give them a crazy offer sheet. Since very few of those are done, if they don’t want to sign a new contract the Kings could conceivably just let them rot because they own their rights.
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I’m absolutely surprised by this ruling, but that does not mean that I don’t agree with it.
Perhaps we are entering an age of reason in the NHL? Hopefully this makes a lockout less likely in two years…yet, who knows?
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5thLine Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
@Gisla,
“age of reason in the NHL” – “lockout less likely”
you’re funny….
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Gislaw Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
@5thLine,
Thanks! I sometimes think so.
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Forget Kovi for now, we need D-Fence.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
@Nuclear Shag, Kings have 10Mil to spend this year. We can trade for D, or promote from within. I personally think the Kings are very high on Johan Fransson-D a 5 yr vet from the Swedish Elite League. Also if Williams or Stoll is part of the trade then we could have a push in Cap Space in getting D. So, the Kovi option is there, but again it must be the right price or DL just won’t do it. NJ may have problems depending on the punishment from Bettman(Max fine 5mil that counts vs Cap). As for UFA D-men I don’t know if I would pay much more than 2 mil/yr for any player thats left?
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:02 am
@luc20rules, We will see if Fransson is every bit as good as he looked on that film. Quite often, guys who dominate in Europe find the NHL difficult so we wiil see. One things for sure, he is 25 so he is in his prime so he should definately be ready. Also, it is pretty obvious he is gonna get a strong look since Dean signed him to a 1 year entry level contract.
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I’m gettin the popcorn ready. Looks like I’ll be here for the next month or so…
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here is the arbitration report by Bloch
http://goo.gl/b/0aTe
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rick Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
@Dayman Thanks for providing the decision. I skimmed most of it and focused almost exclusively on the arbitrator’s discussion of what he found wrong with the contract. It is clear that the decision is going to require Kovi and whomever signs him to work out a shorter term contract with more dollars pushed to the end of the contract and less total dollars involved It is going to need to be much more than a minor haircut. Will be extremely interesting to see how this all plays out.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 8:58 pm
@Dayman, Thanks, a very interesting read. I found this part very interesting.
arbitrator:”6) In a footnote to the decision (footnote 23), the arbitrator indicates that similar contracts signed by Luongo, Pronger, Savard and Hossa are being investigated by the NHL with the possibility of withdrawal of approval (and registration).”
The arbitrator does add, however, that the Kovalchuk contract is “more dramatic, including a 17-year term length, a $102,000,000 salary total and precipitous drop that lasts for the final six years of this contract”. This suggests to me that the arbitrator doesn’t want to take a position on these previous contracts and is saying that they are not exactly the same.
Under Section 26.10(b) of the CBA, the NHL can investigate a possible circumvention even if the player’s contract has been “approved and registered”. On top of that, Section 26.10(d) provides that there is no time limitation barring an investigation (“There shall be no limitation of time barring the investigation of a Circumvention by the Commissioner”).
Can you imagine Chicago having to create another 3 mil/yr in cap space. LOL! Make it happen Gary.
Yeah! Chicago’s in great shape?
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I sense something, something I’ve not felt since……
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rontheking Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
@Goring 19,
a great disturbance in the force…like ten thousand kings fans cried out in unison for kovalchuk–and were silenced!
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Kingsfanone Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
@Goring 19, @rontheking,
Impressive….Most impressive.
Help you I can.
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rontheking Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
@Kingsfanone,
Luke…I am your brother Brayden….
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matt monforton Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
@rontheking,
ha! i actually LOL’d
puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:06 am
@Goring 19, I have found as I have gotten older that metamucil is good when you feel something that you havent felt before.
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neil Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:19 am
@Goring 19, restroom to the left…
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:35 am
@neil, AWESOME ! LMFAO !
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How do the Devils make their cap work with Kovy now? They were going to have to dump salary with the old contract, how are they going to make it work now?
Does this put the Kings deal back in play?
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Goring 19 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
@Garrett, if I had to bet on it, I’d say DL is meeting in a dark alley somewhere right now with Kovi’s agent.
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:14 am
@Goring 19, I hate to admit it, but I think you are right. Lets face it, Dean and Tim never bashed Kovalspank or his agent publicly and always approached this as “just business”. And you can be sure that Tim Leiweike was really pissed off when Mr. Vanderbeek punked their offer by 20 million and Grossman signed it. Thats probably why Bettman shot those bastards down in flames and this still leaves the door open to re-engage. I think this was the Kings #1 plan in the offseason and they will not go to plan #2 until this saga officially ends and clearly it still hasn’t concluded.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
@puck73, Bettman probably thought there was a good chance he would lose the other cases(Hossa, Pronger, Savard, etc), but the Kovi terms were so obvious with no attempt at covering up the circumvention. He probably figured there was no way he could lose and now he has this ruling in his back pocket as a precident for challenging the other contracts which NHL lawyers cleverly made sure there was no time limit to investigating. There will be some very good UFAs available soon and the Kings have 10 mil(13mil if Schenn is not on Roster, Greene is off roster add for first month 2.9 mil) to spend good times. So really we could forseeably spend 16 mil on UFAs and then figure out how to work Greene under the Cap in November. Bettman get the Arbitration going.
Kovalchuk? Who cares?
I am curious to see what moves are made, as time is quickly slipping by. Looking forward to next season….
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I like the way the line runs up the back of the stockings…
I’ve always liked those kind of high heels, too.
No, no, no, no, no, don’t take ‘em off…
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Goring 19 Reply:
August 9th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
@JPKelly, yeah that’s it a little more to the right.
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murf Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
@JPKelly, Look i’ll pay for it what the f*ck
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Screw kovi, the guy can’t even play defence. Why are we even wasting more of our time on this guy? When a cheaper, younger player-Bobby Ryan-is still there for the taking.
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:31 am
@Kopitar11, The only way Bobby Ryan ends up here is if the Ducks trade him here. Remember, Dean has stated in the past that he will not pull a Kevin Lowe and mess with other people’s restricted free agents for fear that others will mess with ours. Also, I am 99% sure that the Ducks will not trade Ryan anywhere in the western conference.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
@puck73, If there is any case for collusion it is the RFA. The NHLPA fought hard to get that included into the CBA and the GMs have made a gentleman’s agreement to not make offer sheets. If DL only had a fear of that where are all the offer sheets for Edm RFAs. 1 successful offer sheet and to my memory only 1 other attempted offer sheet on Vanek(Edm before doing it to get Penner) in the last 5 years? If I remember correctly they were both made in the first year of the current CBA. This with Ryan and James Neal holding out both getting low balled by there clubs.
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
@luc20rules, So far you are right, nobody has made any offers to Edmontons RFA’S. That being said, I really dont see Dean doing something like that, especially to his neighbors to the south. And as far as Ryan’s money situation goes, I think 5 million a year for a young player like that is not what I would call “Lowballing” him, I think it is at the very LEAST a starting point, especially when you consider the 59 million dollar salary cap.
If they build it, he will come. So they say… well Dean built it, now isn’t this guy supposed to come?
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I am really holding my breath on this one, and hoping I don’t suffocate! One more time: Sign the guy Kings! There is no downside to getting Kovi (or is it Kovy). Do something exciting for the fans for a change. Make it must see hockey for all of us life long Kings groupies. If you sign him, I’ll officially change my name to Happy Kings Fan. BTW, what do all you commenters do for work? I’m guessing a lot of you are Westside White Collar Snobs disguised as internet tough guys. Not like the good old days at the Forum with the Pedro Dock Workers. They had season seats in the very top row next to a pillar, and would always get obliterated on their smuggled hard liquor flasks accompanied by big green bomber smokeouts. Rich, you and Helene should immediately do some research on this topic, especially Helene.
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Hi all,
I have from the beginning always been a fan of Kovalchuk to LA, and I still am, in some content. I realize that the amount of money he is asking is crazy but I think now his options are growing thinner. I still think we have a shot at bringing him here.
I DONT agree with you who says that he never wanted to play here, what the heck shall he say on a New Jersey press conference?
I DONT agree with you who say that he is greedy and all he wants is the most money he could get. Then WHY did he not sign for Islanders, who offered 100 million dollars over 10 years (Allthough, It might have been only a rumor). Or WHY did he not sign for Atlanta when they offered 70 million over 7 years?
Kovalchuk wants to win, he wants to be paid as one of the best scorers in the leauge (which he is), and he wants his family to feel good. New Jersey simply made a better offer than us, and they are more of a contender than us, so he chose them. Lets just face it.
But now, things are different. And if NJ gets a fine, I think he wont be able to sign for them. I STILL think we should try to sign him if the opportunity comes up. I dont think we shall put all our eggs in this basket, but at least a few
Mean while, we can investigate other trade options.
We have a chance to bring a differencemaker to LA, dont be so hateful. He IS a great scorer, teammate, player, and yes he is expensive, but so are other ferraris. To the right price, sign him… It is a “no-brainer” as you use to say
My 2 cents
//MacSwede
[Reply]
MacSwede Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:08 am
@MacSwede, I realize now that it should be “..and I still am, in some extent”? Or am I wrong? Still working on improving my english..
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ezepace Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:19 am
@MacSwede,
I so agree with you !!!
Lets keep trying to get Kovi….I want him as a King. I believe he can be a difference maker.
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number 6 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
@ezepace,
He can be a difference maker. He could completely ruin the chemistry in the locker room. Someone said yesterday in comments that a marriage that starts out poorly isn’t likley to improve. It Can happen, but I wouldn’t want to bet millions on it.
That’s how I feel about Kovi now. As to why if he were about just the money he would’ve gone to the NYI or Atlanta. Easy that. He definitely wanted out of Atlanta and a new start, and there was nothing more than a rumor wrt the Isles. They never actually made the offer. Plus, if it were a difference of 5 to 10 million between the contracts, clearly he would accept the smaller amount (not figuring the Kings offer into this) and go with a team like NJ instead of Atl.
So, yes he is about the money and to say he isn’t (or his agent isn’t, doesn’t matter the specifics on that one) is just not accurate.
[Reply]
number 6 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
@number 6,
btw, no, I’m not saying he is Only about the money. Obviously he wants to win something too. Boy, he’d better, otherwise he’s in the wrong sport and in the wrong league. I don’t see it as any badge of merit that he wants to win something.
5holer Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
@MacSwede, Bravisimo!! I’ve struggle with lethargy trying to read all these post of the ill witted(new hockey term)!..Alas a truth speaker with the wileyness(new word) to go with it. I’ve posted since July that LAKs are on trial here, not IK, not Grossboy. LAK are at a precipice, a crossroads…this team is less than last year’s version, which was not a world beater. All hockey people know what LAK is lacking(injuries not withstanding)…GOALS AT 5 ON 5!! Consistency in finishing at net with forwards(a chronic problem)…secondarily(but a close 2nd), pucks moved out of our end with regularity(chronic problem B!). And more so a SuperStar is needed to spark the Franchise’s following(developing SSs not withstanding, Kopi, Dewey, JJ). Why no Norris for Dewey, no attention from rest of NHL media, not seen enough..When 99 was here that problem did not exist! There is no 99 around, Crosby, Ovy & others are taken, Kovy is best of the rest and Available! Test of LAKs brass meddle/metal(pun intended)..do they state they believe in their kids and jump, thus keeping attention to team and going long way to credibility with other players(ours & other’s)..There has been no leaps of faith since this brass took root here…sure good drafts(couldn’t miss with top 5 picks year after year)..yes some niiiice lower teir FAs(Zus,Scuds, etc), but no leaps to date. Trades have been stop gaps(Stolly,Greener,Willie,Smytty). They ran at Hossa, Havlat, Gaborik, or did they? Maybe at a trot pace? Hard run at Paul Martin netted zero for credibility reasons, way more than money/term.
Reading so much naivete in these posts! Players mouths are used to speak Agent/Lawyers words in pressers. Players play hockey and stay out of all business aspects of game period, if not they are stupid and not tolerated. They conform or go bye bye! The biz is all lawyers domain. The player will always love the team he signs with or will be an ignorant ass(donkey) to say otherwise!
This league has alot of teams with financial issues, serious issues! There is a looming labor dispute just up the road(Fehr Fest!)..League run teams are in the offing, or displacement to new locals with new money are sought(Hamilton, Winipeg,Quebec City, etc..US is saturated for now, maybe KC with AEG Arena in place).
Is Liewecke mouthing a competitive frost over Vanderbeek’s bow shot(not withstanding a dud shot!)? Or is it the Tim the Fan burning for a Cup chance? To say a price is too high for AEG, is like saying a glass of water removed from the Pacific Ocean will dilute sea levels.(i.e.Beckham signing not a ripple!).
The LAK offer to Kovy was CBA compliant, a brilliant piece of architecture trumped by a theif with phony paper(naughty NJ!). Will it be pablim touting PR chatter about the unknown future, or will it be decisive action to attempt to establish credibility and competitive ferver for a Cup chance. I am not talking fan credibility here…Hell the sounds in this post room(new term) reak of diehard blindness and tomfoolery, and a blatant lack of hockey IQ in too many posts. I know, I know, its all about the beer before the middle of the 3rd! To some of us, its the art of hockey being played, the talent displayed and the intent of the LAKs that is most critical. For too long for naught, but we shall see what we shall see come September and beyond!
MacSwede you covered it all, and I wanted to embellish a little that’s all!
MartinRW, your points were well taken! Can always count on a good RW to put up the right numbers! Though I had to check you guys so much as a LDman myself! Those days are way gone, but your savy persists. Keep it up!
Oldtimehockey, you make one side of the arguement I present here. Here’s hoping you are a troubled cynic without another cause to berate in your repitoire!? Then we have the optimists(in 300s sections) who keep their rose colored glasses(binoculars?) on while looking at their cup of beer only to ponder if its half full or half empty…but knowing where to get their refills in any case..at the LAKs glam party pressers that’s where! Free beverages at all at those pressers! You may need them by October, or maybe not, I hope, I hope, I hope!! To be or Not to be? Soon to see! My quarters worth!
[Reply]
Matt R Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
@MacSwede,
Completely agree. Some fans feel slighted, but as soon as he scores a goal, no one will care anymore.
Also, the correct phrase is “to some extent.” I should tell you though, your English is better than some people who speak it as their first language!
[Reply]
I’m all for kovi! However I would rather take a young Bobby Ryan and another D. Cheaper and we will get similar results. Ryan is capable of netting 40 goals he simply needs better linemates. I say pay Ryan what he wants and build from there. Kovi will end up in Russia or the devils.
[Reply]
…..If only life was as simple as NHL2K10:
My trades yesterday:
1. Frolov/moller/2 draft picks->Thrashers for Kovalchuk
2. Williams/Zeiler/Ersberg/Draft pick ->Rangers for Gaborik
I was ROTFLMAO!!!
My 1st line is now:
Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Gaborik
And it’s responsible for upwards of 9+ Goals/Game and have a collective 18 +/- per game… stupid unfair… But awesome to play with
Not that this would ever happen in the real world… But one can dream.
Kovi or no Kovi. KFFL (kings fan for life), and KoPI hits 100+ pts. this season!
GKG!
[Reply]
MacSwede Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:07 am
@TVA333, haha, many lettercombinations there.. realize I am getting older
But not too old to play NHL. Unfortunately I only have a pc version (2009) with a lot of addons…it really sucks they are not making the game to pc anymore…the EA version that is.
In your case Gabby gets hurt soon
[Reply]
Matt R Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
@TVA333,
Your first trade isn’t bad for Atlanta if my current season of NHL 10 is to be believed…Moller is currently at I think 4th or 5th in scoring with 53 points after 48 games! He’s not even on my team so he’s doing it on his own.
[Reply]
Having the contract voided is good for the league/players. I’m also very happy DL isn’t chasing this ******* for a second time, and that we’re moving on to other deals.
[Reply]
RJB Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:15 am
@Ersberg,
Other Deals? LOL
Define Deals…
[Reply]
Ersberg Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:29 am
@RJB, I’ll help you out…
..”but it seems that the Kings are exploring another avenues, for both forwards and defensemen. What are they? All I got was a cryptic, “We’re working on some things.”
Deals. As in hockey deals. Trades. How would I know exactly who they’re targeting when Rich isn’t even posting it? Clearly the idea of adding a forward and/or defensemen is the plan moving forward.
[Reply]
hockeysureshot Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:19 am
@Ersberg, I agree let’s move on! Willie Mitchell or Robyn Regier please! Kings need a veteran d-man bad!!
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:21 am
@hockeysureshot,
Since the Wings just signed Salei it looks like Lilja is now desperate for a home. I would gladly take him for 1-1.5 Mil.
[Reply]
MacSwede Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:55 am
@VanKingsFan, Then I can see the headlines: Big Swede returns to LA!
RJB Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:01 am
@VanKingsFan,
Yes Yes..Maybe we can trade for more throw away Kings such as Gleason, Corvo and talk Blake out of retirement. The Kings had these players and they (Other Than Flake) turned out to be better than avg players on other teams after we ship them off. Moulson had 30+ goals last season with a horrible team but we gave him ample opportunity anchoring a 4th line of Ivanans and Harrold. Why could we not see any potential there? Hey DL…WAKE THE F UP…Ahaheim has had a better off season adding the bits and pieces to be competitive. We will not be better than 92 points this season which to me is a BIG BIG step backworks and an insult to us true Kings fans and ticket holders. Keep believing in this sher-odd when all the young kids bolt to be winners when their contracts expire…Nice work..I can hear it now…DL: “Well we tried to keep these kids together by offering them long term deals. I am not sure why they decided NOT to sign back with the Kings” The answer will always be the same. This organization does not care about winning. That is why none of the Big Name UFA will ever sign here. DL got lucky on a couple of early breakout kids and they think that we can do the same every year by not improving through FA or trades…Koolaid Anyone?
Ersberg Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@hockeysureshot, Either of those 2 on short-term deals would be great.
[Reply]
I don’t see us being cap-rich.
We have a clean 10M cap window and 2.8M bonus cushion.
The bonuses are DD and WS so they are getting paid.
With 10M to spend, and a big need for a strong top D man, there is no cap room for star players.
If we graduate three prospects, the minimum hit will be 2.5M. If we graduate Top prospects like Schenn, Hickey, 2Bert … 5.5M hit.
So, if we don’t get a D-man, and graduate junior talent, we have 7-7.5M to sign a star player.
If we graduate our top talent, we have ~ 4.5M to sign either a top winger or top D-man.
No wonder the staff is stressed out.
Looks like the kids will get a chance at the big club this year.
Lets hope TM doesnt do the sub-ten game shuffle and rotate the kids.
[Reply]
ArmChairKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
@Token,
Now see, there is some logic that has avoided many posters that are ready to throw in the towel and throw this team under the bus. I think it’s possible to add the D-man and wait until the deadline for that scoring punch.
Smyth/Kopi/Williams
Richie(Poni)/Stoll/Brown
Poni(Richie)/Zeus/Simmer
Clune/Center/Westgarth/Parse
Doughty/Scuds
Johnson/#2-3 D-man
Drewiskie/Harrold/Hickey/
So a bottom-6 center is missing and a top-4 D-man… IMHO this line-up will win enough games to make that deadline move…
[Reply]
ArmChairKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
@ArmChairKingsFan,
And I didn’t even name Schenn, Voynov, Loktionov, etc… the talent is there, time to prove they can step up.
[Reply]
it looks like the League is now reviewing some of those other “precedent” contracts starting with Luongo.
This is what DL has been talking about all along. Some on here called him a liar and questioned if he knew what he was doing. He had the foresight to see that these contracts are toxic. They are like the pay option arm loans that devestated the
[Reply]
puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:46 am
@EASportsMgt, You are absolutely right. Dean also said in an interview to a canadian radio station after the Kovi signing that the chickens will eventually come home to roost. Too bad that most americans who run up big credit card balances and get suckered into adjustable mortagages didnt heed advice like that.
[Reply]
I got cut off..
I was comparing this to the mortgage industry with their bad loans.
These contracts hurt the overall league. I’m Glad DL has steered clear of them. I will be very interested to see how Doughty’s deal gets structured.
[Reply]
FKA PakiFro Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:02 am
@EASportsMgt,
I would hope it would be structured like Kopitar’s. 7 years, very reasonable. Hell, if it was identical to Kopitar’s, I wouldn’t mind the slightest bit.
[Reply]
5holer Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@EASportsMgt, having gotten familiar with your pen style in this post room, I am aware of your litigious prowess. I am certain that one could, historically speaking, make the analagous leap that first came bad banking policies and procedures, then onerously to follow came the fall out of bad paper in all quadrants of the financial world…ergo NHL billious contracts as those of front loading ensemble. Much like Zantac, these acid reducers are now boiling up to esophygeal erosion making them harder and harder to swallow. Gary is tired of trying to calm his peptic reactions, plying such with pill after pill of smiley PR wincings! Have you seen his most recent epilogues, repleat with twitch after facial twitch ongoing!! In simple lay terms, those ARMS were luscious to taste in the beginning, but the lingering aftertaste could not be diluted, and the chattle took the loss. So be it for those NHL paper magic contracts spread so long and so far that they lost sight of them and all there perils. The piper has played his flute now, and so let the cattle through the shoot, to the slaughter we commence! Birthing of these deadly virused killing machine contracts has to be ceased or the entire herd will perish! The Fehr Fest will commence soon enough and the blood sprays will be palpable!…Let the mockeries be stopped! Dino(Dean Martin) never rehearsed ever in his show biz career..Ah but our version of Dino is well rehearsed and full of wit..ergo his compliant offer may overtake the crowd of fools in Devils Land! In NJ I can see the pool of blood in the water, but only DNA can say who’s blood it really is? Safe to say it is not Russian!
My dimes worth!
[Reply]
Yes Yes..Maybe we can trade for more throw away Kings such as Gleason, Corvo and talk Blake out of retirement. The Kings had these players and they (Other Than Flake) turned out to be better than avg players on other teams after we ship them off. Moulson had 30+ goals last season with a horrible team but we gave him ample opportunity anchoring a 4th line of Ivanans and Harrold. Why could we not see any potential there? Hey DL…WAKE THE F UP…Ahaheim has had a better off season adding the bits and pieces to be competitive. We will not be better than 92 points this season which to me is a BIG BIG step backworks and an insult to us true Kings fans and ticket holders. Keep believing in this sher-odd when all the young kids bolt to be winners when their contracts expire…Nice work..I can hear it now…DL: “Well we tried to keep these kids together by offering them long term deals. I am not sure why they decided NOT to sign back with the Kings” The answer will always be the same. This organization does not care about winning. That is why none of the Big Name UFA will ever sign here. DL got lucky on a couple of early breakout kids and they think that we can do the same every year by not improving through FA or trades…Koolaid Anyone?
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:09 am
@RJB, Sher-odd… is that English?
Moulson had ample opportunity on the 1st line next to Kopitar and Brown and it couldn’t work, get the facts mister “true kings fan”.
[Reply]
AZ King Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:24 am
@VanKingsFan,
Apparently in order to be a “true Kings fan” you have to be bitter, resentful, and capable of blowing up other teams advancements beyond reasonable proportions.
In the case of the Ducks, I’m not sure how they’ve gotten better by losing another all-star d-man for the second year in a row (keep in mind that they never filled the hole left by Pronger) and have yet to re-sign their top goal scorer.
[Reply]
Sebastian Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:14 am
@RJB, A few things I agree with: Keeping Purcell and shipping out Moulson was a huge bonehead move my DL.
Putting ANYONE in an NHL 4th line to “develop” is a terrible idea….specially like you mentioned with Ivanans and Harrold. haha. I was very upset when they did it to Boyle and then they were surprised he didnt do well. Why Purcell got a chance to play on every single line last season, and these other guys were not give the same chance was hard to understand.
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:22 am
@Sebastian,
I think it depends on the type of player. I hope you aren’t saying that we ruined Boyle’s career by doing this, IMO he is suited well to the 4th line role, which I think he proved last year.
I am still not too convinced on Moulson, only 18 assists being on the top line all year with John Tavares. I think with all the hype around JT the ice opened up for Moulson and he got a way less defensive pressure then his line mates.
And also, hindsight is 20-20 so they say, I agreed with the decision to give Purcell all those chances because of his potential.
[Reply]
deadcatbounce Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:21 am
@RJB, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You say on one hand that the Kings trade all their kids away before they become good, but on the other hand you want the Kings to acquire good players. How do you propose doing this if they don’t trade some of the kids? I don’t believe you’re going to get equal value for Smyth even if he were on the block. And what’s this opinion that everybody seems to have about the kids not wanting to re-up when their contracts expire? They’re gonig to be RFA’s, and as RFA’s they have no choice as to where they play unless some crazy GM tenders a crazy offer sheet, which after the Kovalchuck hearing probably isn’t going to happen. Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds, none of these players will be able to dictate where they play until they become UFA’s. I know other people have mentioned it; how many times do people have to be told???
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:24 am
@deadcatbounce, Armchair GM’s who think they understand the sport a lot better than they actually do IMO.
Honestly it blows my mind that some people actually think “The Kings org. does not want to win”. Just a totally ridiculous statement with no truth to it, no facts associated with it, no evidence, no nothing
[Reply]
RJB Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:38 am
@VanKingsFan,
Really? 43 years of back up. Worse since AEG took over…Game Set Match
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
@RJB, Sorry but that assumption is a BIG insult to everyone who has worked their ass off with the Kings for all those 43 years. Just because you don’t win doesn’t mean you don’t want to man, not a hard concept to grasp.
many many teams have never won a cup, and you are essentially saying the same thing about those organizations too? That they don’t want to win at all. Don’t ever come near Vancouver and say that, you wont make it out alive.
John Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
@RJB,
You’re part of the same crowd that management has ALWAYS pandered to for all those 40+ years “WIN NOW SUPERSTAS!” Which brought us nothing.
Lombardi is doing it right! We had nothing one would call a organIzation when he got here. It remains to be seen if he’s successfull, but he’s doing it the right way.
If he’s allowed to do it for say 6-8 seasons, we WILL win a Stanley Cup.
The thing that’s astonishing to me is this is coming off a very successful season. All the venon based on the offseason?
…hilarious!
And anyways, Korvo “better then average”?? hahahahahahahahaha PLease!
RJB Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:32 am
@deadcatbounce,
I am saying that they will not take the long a term deal,or they take a deal they can opt out of after a couple years. I am also saying that you have to mix your youth with some top notch vets if available. Chicago has Toews, Sharpe, keith seabrook and they go and get a Hossa…The Kings have a poor mans talent pool compared to Chicago, but put in that same scenario will not do what it takes to bring in the over the top player..
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:50 am
@RJB, In retrospect we can look at CHicago in a different light.
They have had to slightly “blow up” their roster this year and have lost several key pieces from last years team.
Also the NHL is investigating Hossa’s contract and if they decide it circumvented the cap like Kovalchuks did they can take the Stanley Cup away from Chicago for playing an illegal player, I think…
Sebastian Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:55 am
@RJB, That would be the most controversial move the league has ever made…I dont think they are ready for that. during and after the lockout many Americans felt that hockey was just a big joke, taking a cup away would not be smart business for the league.
deadcatbounce Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
@RJB, What you fail to realize is that a player does not set the terms of his contract unilaterally. This is why they call it negotiations.
I’m still bent about the Greene thing. How is it not obvious that players need to be evaluated for potential off-season surgery at the end of the season, and who dropped the ball?
[Reply]
guuny Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:39 am
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
seriously. I was under the mistaken impression that medical exams were part of the exit interviews. apparantly that need CBA approval too. I guess i get why a UFA wouldn’t want anyone to know but if you got a player under contract for the following season it should be your right.
[Reply]
justlu Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
@What’s the frequency, Kenneth?,
I would place the blame directly on the player. He knows what his shoulder feels like. And it appears to me he self diagnosed his injury as being something that just needed rest to recover. But when that rest didn’t solve the problem he went and saw the doctor. He should have seen the doctor right after the end of the season and let the doctor decide what the best course for his shoulder should have been. He is a grown man who is paid top dollar to be in the best physical shape possible it is up to him to inform his employers of any injury asap.
[Reply]
After reading the arbitrator’s report, looks like the Devils and Kovi are off the hook with any potential fines:
“Nothing in this Opinion should be read as suggesting that either the Club or Mr. Kovalchuk operated in bad faith or on the basis of any assumption other than that the SPC was fully compliant with the CBA.”
One thing I didn’t realize was how the No Movement Clause changed to a No Trade Clause in the later years, meaning they could move Kovi to the minors therefore relieving their cap costs. This was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back.
The other big problem was that the last years are at the current league minimum pay. The arbitrator implies that 12 to 17 years from now that the minimum salary will be more than what it is now (makes sense).
I expect the Devils and Kovi will simply rework a 15 year deal with Kovi getting (only) 90 million or so (still 10 million more than what we now know the Kings were offering). Something like this: $7,7,11.5,11.5,11.5,10,8.5,7.5,5.5,3,2,2,1,1,1 million.
Still a 6 million cap hit and at/above projected league minimum salary in last 5+ years.
The biggest battle between NJ and Kopi might be the No Trade/Movement Clause as the Devils aren’t going to want the 6 mil cap hit when they’re only paying 1-3 mil in the last years for a player 35-40 years old. Maybe Kopi agrees to a No TRADE Clause for the entirety of the contract?
Regardless, still seems as though the Devils effectively “locked-up” Kovi with the initial bogus contract without penalty (I’m guessing).
Doesn’t seem right.
[Reply]
deadcatbounce Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:53 am
@We B Ilya’n, It still astounds me that GM’s are willing to give NTC’s or MNC’s after the mess Ottawa had with Heatley and the trouble the Leafs have had for the past couple of years trying to unload Kaberle. I hope DL never goes this route.
[Reply]
T Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
@We B Ilya’n,
Seeing how the league just rejected the 17-year, 102-mil deal…AND they are currently looking into similarly stuctured deals with the threat of fighting those, I highly doubt they will come right back with a deal like that, (90-mil, 15 years…making over 80-mil in the first 10 years)
Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. The start of the season is less than two months aways…you think Kovy and his agent are going to take that route again?
[Reply]
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@T,
You may be right, I posted this before I read that the NHL is further investigating the Luongo and Savard deals.
But what’s to stop them if no fines are imposed?
I think at this point it’s the NHL that’s more willing to accept anything close to complying with the CBA and just fixing the loophole when the NHL and NHLPA get together in a couple of years.
I’m willing to bet if this was the contract that was originally proposed that the league would of accepted it though.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to know if the Kings had proposed this deal if the Kovi camp and the league would have accepted it?
(Assuming that Kovi in actuality did prefer LA to NJ)
[Reply]
Mickey Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
@We B Ilya’n, the aritrator does not determine penalties or whether they can be applied. He can make a suggestion, but that falls squarely with the league and they can do it without retribution once the arbitrator awarded on their behalf. At least that is how I read the provisions.
[Reply]
Alright guys, Seems as if everything is really coming down. Maybe this is a good thing, cleaning up these contracts, thank god we havent tried the loophole, that was obviously gonna be crashed upon (now). DL has done a fine job as of now, with all this Kovalchuk talk, all talks have been low, between all GMs. Some teams though, like chicago didnt have nearly the time to wait like we do, whats our rush? We have the best group of guys we have had in a LONG,LONG time? no?
We made the playoffs for the first time since 01 last season, Dustin brown is pumped, Drew is pumped, Quick is pumped, Simmonds is pumped,Jack is pumped, there all pumped. I trust the guys we have now, our D line needs a tune, that DL has already said he is working on as of late. I feel with a trade for a D man(urgent) and maybe a fast 2nd liner sometime down the line we would be set for a good push this season. Even if we just aquire another good defenseman, and once matt returns too the lineup, we look great. Do we not?
[Reply]
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
@Michael_DD8,
I agree, we are pumped, probably even more so with the “kids” coming up to play. Something definately to take into consideration.
Plus with the fresh meat (Poni and Schenn, maybe Clifford) to put in front of the net, we will score 5 on 5.
Maybe Greene’s injury is a blessing in disguise, as DL now HAS TO get us a d-man. Once the defense is in place, we are solid.
Doesn’t make sense why so many people here are coming down on this team/management. Seems apparent to me that we will be an improved team this season, and we were pretty good already.
[Reply]
Sebastian Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
@We B Ilya’n, Seems to me that all Kings fans want a “Superstar” or a “Sniper”. Kopitar came out big time last year, and I hope he will be even better this year (no mid-season drought please). when you look at the last few teams to win the Cup, they have more than 1 “sniper”. (Hossa, Toews, Kane) (Crosby, Malkin) (Zetterberg, Datsyuk). I believe management will bring in the “superstar” we want when the team is ready to compete for the Cup….hopefully within a few years. Until then the Kings have to continue building the team thorough the draft.
Just because the Kings didnt get Kovalchuk doesnt mean this offseason was a complete failure. The team did good last year, although they showed inexperience in the playoffs. The team has not lost much from last year. there are a few small holes that need to be filled, but i believe management can do so before the start of the season. there will be a lot of young kids fighting for a roster spot and that is very exciting.
[Reply]
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
@Sebastian,
In retrospect, it’s probably best that we get Doughts, JJ, and Simmers signed and Smyth’s big contract off the books before we make the superstar sniper deal.
However, the Kovi free agency situation was one of those rare opportunities that you gotta make an exception for and I give DL props for “putting his eggs in one basket” and making a strong effort within the cap guidelines to try to get him.
I, for one, thought we had him.
I don’t know how serious the investigations into Hossa, Savard, Pronger, and Luongo’s contracts are, but if Hossas’ contract gets rejected and becomes a free agent we better jump on him right away…
[Reply]
Michael_DD8 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
@brandyn,
I dont think they would do that…To accept his contract , and then tell him actually no, your a UFA , get ready to move , after you plan on ending your career here and we told you that was ok a year ago.
I think they might make them restructure it to fit ? Who knows though, id be happy if he did become a UFA and we could try..
[Reply]
Sydor25 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
@Michael_DD8,
The NHL wouldn’t de-list any of those contracts. They would only pursue an Article 26 arbitration so that they could punish the teams invovled. Probably by taking away draft picks.
No reason to de-list the contracts.
[Reply]
YES on 19 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
@Sydor25, What I’d like to see them do is to readjust the remaining years of the contract so that the balance of the total sum is paid out evenly over those years. That would screw both the player and the team.
EASportsMgt Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
@Sydor25,
What do you mean “no reason to de-list those contracts”???
If those contracts were intended to circumvent the CBA then they have every right to render them void now. The question becomes why did they allow them before and now say they are a circumvention. Well, it was understood that those contracts were always under review by the league and that no formal response or inquiry was ever made pubilc. For all we know they could have been investigating it all along but didn’t have any precedent to go off of.
They have it now with the Kovi case. This is a common legal practice, when you await the answer of a different courts ruling on the case in order to use that as your precedent.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the NHL was waiting for a contract that was so ridiculous (look at Kovi’s deal) that they feel they could win (see arbitrators decision) and use that as their precedent to go after the other contracts even though they were done previously.
If I read the Arbitrators response correctly, it sounded like the PA threw those players under the bus. Now they have essentially left them out in the cold and the NHL has every right to go back and reject those contracts and make them UFA’s.
However that kind of firestorm will almost certainly only lead to another lockout. I almost remember reading and then writing that a lot of GM’s were planning accordingly for fear of a lock out. Those chances I think only grew now because of the Kovi deal and the NHL’s intent on reviewing those other contracts.
Who would have thought Kovy would have so many ripples. With TSN reporting that the Loungo, Pronger, and even the Hossa contracts are under investigation (the last one makes no sense as a year has been played on it) I wonder if Kovy will be the catalyst for another lockout. I hope not.
Still wish a documentary crew was following everyone involved. Would be fun to see behind the scenes on this one.
[Reply]
Serves him right. I think this kind of thing is discusting. To me this all about greed. As much as I would love to see Ilya or a player of his calliber come to LA. 80mil for 15 years hmm thats roughly 5mil and some change a year and he turns it down. Greed….
[Reply]
Do you think Lou was thinking of signing Parise to some crazy contract that would work around kovys before this got rejected?
[Reply]
EASportsMgt Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
@Subby,
I can tell you first hand that that would be impossible because Parise doesn’t have an agent right now and is still interviewing for a new agent. However he has narrowed it down.
[Reply]
Subby Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
@EASportsMgt, makes sense. I am jsut trying to figure out what Lou is thinking signing Kovy when it looks like it will make him lose other talent. So i thought maybe he has something up his sleeve.
[Reply]
No way would the NHL be able to touch the contracts of Pronger, Hossa, etc… As Sydor25 replied, the punishment could only be handed down to the clubs themselves (i.e fines or draft picks). Players who have earned money already can argue legally that they have established a lifestyle based on the means agreed upon.
[Reply]
I just don’t get it, NJ has no cap space. None. And while they will have enough NEXT year, they certainly don’t have enough THIS year (the year when Kovalchuk IS an UFA).
So did they think they could get away with it?
Yes.
Did their GM say he didn’t like the deal that he offered?
Yes.
So why did Kovalchuk take it?
The money.
So what can he do now?
Go for the money.
Who has the money now?
The Kings.
So who should he sign with?
The Kings.
But who does everyone seem to think he will sign with?
The Devils.
Who can’t afford him, right?
Right.
[Reply]
brandyn Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
@Jonsey,
Yes it kind of sucks that jersey took our guy… and who do they think there going to get rid of ? there team is old for the most part and they will need to rebuild probably next year
[Reply]
John Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
@brandyn,
Give ‘em Martinez and a 3rd for Colin White and help them start rebuilding.
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
@Jonsey, I would like to see the Kings make a big 1 yr offer of about 7.5 mil. Kovi will take the team to the next level and if we move 1 or 2 of the non-producing pieces we should still be able to improve the D. The main reason Kovi will not do that is next year 3 players better than him will be UFAs this means he will possibly recieve probably in the 6 mil/yr range if the dead years tails are truely no longer allowed. That said I think he may be ok with that if he actually spends a successful year here, but we will see. I am expecting NJ to have another contract rejected/arbitrated as it will look much like the Hossa deal which will also likely be arbitrated. Won’t Chicago love to have that *Salary Cap Circumventors next to their name on the Stanley Cup list.
[Reply]
Half-way to October….grade the GM.
Mine, D+. Not because of Kovi either.
Lucky he got Poni. Still time left so that’s the half full side of the equation.
Assets, money and holes and little traction. A little hard to see the close up goal. Is he that sold on what’s on the farm? This has been the MO for off seasons so far, not very impressive.
[Reply]
dMan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
@anonand1onanon,
Ah! someone who lives up to his moniker!
ad infinitum!
[Reply]
John Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 7:14 pm
@anonandonanon,
A-/B+ in a hippocratic oath sorta way.
He went HARD after Martin, Hamhuis & Kovalchuk. Can’t blame DL, their loss!
And on paper we have a KILLER stopper/3rd line all of a sudden
[Reply]
Just thought of something. Instead of a salary cap, how about play the game and then get paid, only get paid for the amount of games, goals scored and so on. Performance based contracts. Then no more of these crazy contracts. I don’t care how you good a player, show me the goals and then i will show you the money. Just think of the NHL was to approve the Kovy deal. Then every player who score 35+ goals in a season got a contract like that and then the following season puts up like 20 goals for the remainder of his contract. I would have to say not worth the money at all.
If you ask me Kopitar is under paid at what 7 yrs and 49 million or something like that. I know i might be wrong on the numbers, And some whi i think burned the team is Dustin Brown. Over paid really did not put up the #’s as a season ago, yes hits were there, but not the goals.
[Reply]
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@lv is the way,
Gotta disagree with you,
To tell you the truth, I was a little shocked when I first saw what Kopitar signed for (long-term 6.8 mil cap hit) for a very young, unproven scorer.
This is what Doughty will be basing his upcoming deal on, I’m sure. Could be a problem.
But to say Dustin Brown, “burned the team,” you gotta be kidding?
Brownie, who’s in his prime, makes 3.175 mil (cap hit.)
First of all, 25-goal-scorers aren’t easy to come by. Add to that his leadership qualities, passion, and grit (2nd in the league in hits) and I would say he’s a BARGAIN.
The most comparable player I can think of would be Mike Richards who makes 5.75 mil.
Any team would be happy to sign Brownie at 3.175 mil. We’re lucky to have him!
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
@We B Ilya’n, I think that point was obvious to 99% of Kings fans. I was blown away when we signed Brown to that contract. Such a Steal. If he was a UFA this season he would have been 5 or above cap hit for any number of teams.
I would compare him to Bobby Ryan but with more toughness and grit and less scoring ability.
[Reply]
Barry's Mullet Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@VanKingsFan,
Good call on the Ryan/Brown comparison. As for Kopi, he will without a doubt be that top 10 elite NHL player, especially with some help at wing….hopefully that happens in our lifetime!
DD will get his. I don’t expect it to touch Kopi’s cap hit…it will be close, but more in line with what Keith signed for in Chi town. He’s awesome and young, but that “young” part works both ways…Cap hit, just under $6M for 10 years, maybe more?
Dan H. Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
@We B Ilya’n,
Yeah we had a 30-35 goal scorer (when playing in an offensive roll) that we just let go with that kind of cap hit too.
Rangers are going to get their moneys worth this year I’d be willing to bet.
[Reply]
justlu Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
@lv is the way,
Did you look at how many penalties Brown drew last year ? I’m pretty sure he was tops in the league in drawing penalties and how many years has this guy been in the top 5 in hits ?
You might ask what is the value in drawing penalties ? Well since the Kings can’t score 5v5 it is a HUGE value.
One other thing about the Captain you can’t measure heart with #’s. Brown gives the team everything he has every night. I don’t think I saw a game last year where I would say Brown took the night off. I’m offended that you would say he isn’t worth what he is paid.
[Reply]
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
@justlu,
Exactly. Thank you!
P.S. Anyone who has previously implied that Brown isn’t a “core” player just doesn’t get it.
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
@justlu, Brown overpaid? Thanks for your response, it was so obsurd that I didn’t feel I should respond. Did he have a career year no, but I think just his physical presence and leadership by example made us better beyond the 3.125mil/yr. The scoring is just gravy. As a UFA he would go for about 5.5 mil/yr.
[Reply]
Sorry, if this was already posted, but Savard’s contract from last year is being investigated by the NHL. It is no where near as bad as Pronger, or Hossa contracts which I will not be surprised if they are not investigated as well. I am sure this is in a attempt to stop NJ from just signing Kovi to a similar contract to Hossa’s terms. Bettman’s crusade to stop dead years at the end of the contracts continues.
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/13737210/bruins-say-league-investigating-savard-deal-just-like-kovalchuks?tag=pageRow;pageContainer
[Reply]
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
@luc20rules,
Thanks, just looked at the Savard contract. Not as ludicrous as the Kovi deal but still a circumvention. Obviously, Bettman should have stepped in long ago.
Thought I read somewhere that a player’s contract couldn’t increase/decrease by more than 50% in any given year. I guess not?
As new NHL commissioner/rep I propose this:
No player/team shall enter into a contract of more than 12 years.
At player age of 27, no player/team shall enter into a contract exceeding 7 years.
At age 35, no player… 3 years.
A player’s contract may not increase/decrease by more than 25% of the player’s previous year’s salary.
Something like that. I mean, let’s get real.
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
@We B Ilya’n, I agree. I already like the age 35 & over signs new contract rule on the books if a player retires before the years of the contract although the player is no longer paid, the cap hit remains for the life of the contract. Thats why the Kings didn’t agree to the already negotiated Ray Whitney trade last year at the trade deadline he wanted a 3 year extention at
3 million/yr at age 38.
[Reply]
@Rich Hammond, @Quisp, or any other CBA experts.
Is Bloch now the arbitrator for all cases, for a set time, or must one be agreed upon for each case that the NHL voids a contract? Since NHLPA given a choice will definately not agree on Bloch in a similar case.
[Reply]
Bob Bobson Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 7:21 am
@luc20rules, He was the arbitrator in this particular case only. Prior to the hearings there was a lot of discussion about both the NHL and NHLPA having to choose an arbitrator for the hearing. After the decision, there were more articles about how the player’s union will choose another arbitrator later on because they felt Bloch is just a tool of the NHL.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
@Bob Bobson, Thats bad news, but I always value the info. I suspected as much, but we will see what happens as I suspect the NHL will be filing circumvention against Hossa, Pronger, and Savard it will be especially interesting if the cases are bunched together and have 3 different arbitrators. I just can’t see either side wanting to keep an arbitrator that has ruled against them in a similar case.
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Perhaps someone on here can help me with this:
Regarding the ongoing investigation of these other potentially viral contracts…specifically Pronger. What age did he sign his deal at? I ask because I was under the impression that if a contract is signed after the age of 35 then the cap hit would remain for the life of the contract, whether or not the player retires.
Thanks.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
@Gislaw, He was 34 yrs & 9 months old signing in mid July of last year. He was under age 35, so if he retires the unplayed years would not count against the Cap.
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Ok sorry if im dumb but I have a question that I cannot figure out.
What is the point of tacking on all the extra years to these contracts? Like if they retire don’t they not get the money? Why cant they just sign the contract for the amount of years they plan to play? I don’t see how tacking on the extra years benefits the player or team. So basically I want to know what makes this contract so wrong. Also whats the point of front loading the money and taking on years?
Also when people say “a cap hit of (Whatever)” what does that mean.
Thanks
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
@Subby, Please do not refer to yourself as dumb, the fact is at least you want to learn, and arent afraid to ask questions..thats one of the ways you can get a little smarter each day. Hell, their have been people in the past on this site that have written some incredibly inaccurate things and dont feel they need to learn anything ! As far as the cap goes, I would much rather a guy like @quisp try and explain this to you beacause, well, I admit it, I couldnt carry his jock when it come to this subject. That being said, just know this..Gary Bettman and the NHL didnt care for that contract much either and promptly SLAPPED Grossman, Vanderbeek, and Kovalspud right upside the Dome !
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Sydor25 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
@Subby,
I’ll try a quick answer:
The cap hit is the total amount of money divided by the term of the contract, an average. To use Kovalchuk as the example:
He wants $100 over 10 years. Now NJ could have just signed him to that contract, but they couldn’t afford the cap hit ($10 million per year). So they gave Kovalchuk $95 million over the first 10 years of the contract, which would have been a $9.5 million cap hit. This is too much money for the Devils to handle and keep their players. So they add $7 million and 7 years to the contract to get the final deal: $102 million over 17 years.
This brings the cap hit down to $6 million per year, which saves the Devils $3.5 million in cap space per year of the contract. If Kovalchuk retires after the 10 years and pockets $95 million, he only loses $7 million dollars (you don’t get paid if you retire). The Devils regain the cap space ($6 million) because Kovalchuk retired.
That is why it was rejected by the NHL and the arbitrator. There was no reasonable expectation that Kovalchuk was going to play all 17 years of the contract.
Hope that helps.
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5thLine Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:06 pm
@Subby,
Here is how I understand it.
Total contract value in dollars divided by number of years equals the annual “cap hit” to a teams budget which is capped at a certain number each year.
The more years you add, the more you divide the total number by and the lower the annual average.
One of the problems, and there are a few, is that the player can retire. The last years of the contract is voided, but the team and player have already enjoyed the larger contract. This basically goes around the intent of a cap which is supposed to help smaller teams compete with larger market teams.
That’s my understanding for what its worth.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
@Subby, puck73 is right. If you want to learn then you are atleast wise. I wouldn’t say anyone is stupid just smarts is often mistaken for knowledge. The reason the extra years are put on the contract is to lower the cap hit. The Salary Cap Hit is the average pay over the life of the contract. So Kovi’s contract was 102 million over 17 years that is an average of
6 million per year. The pay structure paid him 98.25 million in the first 11 years and only 3.75 million in the last 6 years. It is widely believed he will retire before those last years where he is being paid a 1/20th of what he was being paid in the highest year of the contract. So making the contract to just the years they expected him to play would have caused a cap hit of 98.5 mil/11 yrs = 8.93 mil/yr, so the 6 dead years at the end lowered 2.93mil/yr off Kovi’s cap hit. This would have allowed New Jersey to spend that 2.93mil/yr on another player every year Kovi was playing for them. Each NHL team must stay under the 2010 Salary Cap of 59.4 Mil/yr.
There is a amount called a bonus cushion that teams can go over the Cap for entry level players bonuses however if the entry level players achieves those bonuses then that amount counts against the Salary Cap the following season.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:21 pm
@luc20rules, Under the current CBA if a player is younger than age 35 and he retires with years remaining on his contract then there is no Cap Hit and the team does not pay the player for the remaining years on the contract.
Of course a new CBA will be negotiated in the offseason in 2 years and many rules will likely change.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
@luc20rules, I meant to type if a player signs a contract before age 35 then he may retire at any point and the remainder of the contract does not count against the cap nor does the player continue to be paid.
However if the player example Ray Whitney 38 who signed a 2 year contract with Phx July 1, 2010 retires then the cap hit will continue for the life of the contract, even though the player is retired and is nolonger being paid.
We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
@Subby,
I’m definately no authority but I’ll try to field that one as best I can…
All NHL teams are currently restricted to a maximum total player salary cap of $59.4 million.
A “cap hit” refers to a single player’s total contract dollar amount divided by the number of years of the contract.
If a player makes $10 million for each of 7 years and then retires, that’s still an annual cap hit of $10 million from the team’s maximum of $59.4 million per year.
But if that same player signs a 12 year contract due to pay him $10 million for each of the first 7 years but then only $1 million for each of the last 5 years, then the team’s annual cap hit is only $6.25 million (7×10 + 5×1) / 12.
The player still retires after 7 years with the $70 million he wanted all along and the team is no longer assessed the $6.25 million from their annual salary cap.
Plus, they have effectively “circumvented” the $10 million per season they should have been paying the player.
Good for team. Good for player. Bad for NHL
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
@Subby, Here is a link to the PDF of the 400 pages of the NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement.
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html
LOL, You probably know more than you wanted about the Salary Cap from the 5 replies so far.
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We B Ilya'n Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
@luc20rules & Subby
But now hopefully you can enjoy the ride with the rest of us!
Warning… It’s been a rough one.
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This is a joke.
The GM’s circumvent the CBA, the NHL allows these deals to go through, the Kovi deal is voided and then the violating GM’s decide (because they’re in over their heads and the cap) that their contracts are killing them in maintaining their teams and signing other players. They’re then allowed to “reevaluate their contracts” to get themselves off the hook and get rid of these heavily front loaded deals without being penalized …What a sham!
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puck73 Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
@Moondoggie, Spot on Doggie ! Its hard to believe looking back that the Owners locked the players out 5 years ago because the salaries were out of control and yet some of these owners like Vanderbeek just cant wait to find any loophole they can…And they said the players and their Agents were Greedy ! Like you said Dawg..what a Sham !
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
@Moondoggie, I agree with you except for the point that Chi, Phil, & Boston want out of the contracts with those players. They have made personnel moves to shed cap space, but kept those players, and they didn’t shop them around. Those hockey markets are strong and are some of the more profitable organizations in the NHL. But its the other owners that are speaking the true this is simple cheating and 3 of the final 4 teams had a player with circumventing contracts and were right up against the Salary Cap.
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This is comment no 300. Why does anyone still want Kovalchuk? Better yet, why would Anyone want to sign him for a year. Then what? Maybe we improve, go an extra round in the playoffs, and then he goes to another team the next year?
Then we drop in the standings?
That does not make sense to me…… at all…. not even a little bit. Either Get a player and have him be part of the team, or don’t. And for those who make ref to Hossa’s one yr stint with Detroit.. A) Detroit was at that time way better than the Kings, and B) they didn’t win the Stanley Cup and C) they lost Hossa the next year.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@number 6, You make a very solid arguement and valid points to why we shouldn’t sign Kovi for 1 yr, but the flip side of that is Detroit did make it to the Finals, and if they had the space to resign Hossa he probably would have stayed. He signed a bargain deal for one year about half of what other teams offered to try and win the cup. I don’t think that would happen here, but we would have the Cap Space next year to pay competitively if he did play well and liked it here Detroit did not. I am not a huge Kovi fan, but I won’t disregard his skills, because he took the much better cash offer, or that he made some PR goof when he thought he was going to be in NJ for the rest of his career.
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rontheking Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
@luc20rules,
I don’t see anything wrong with signing the guy for a year–it’d be a hell of a year, and the rich guy can afford it! And you never know…last year with the two great goalies they’ll have this year–instead of one worn out daddy–the kings might not have faded against the shmucks….
now add a russian monster to that equation– the further you go into the playoffs anything can happen. You…can’t…say…you…know…what…would…have…HAPPENED!
Okay, sorry…I feel better now. My meds! Please!
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MacSwede Reply:
August 10th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
@number 6, I always like your comments. I converted you once to the dark side, but now you seem lost to the other side (maybe now is the time to tell you I am your father)
To answer your questions (even the retorical ones):
“Why does Anyone want to sign him for a year?”
Well, I can think of many teams that are cup contenders who very much would like to sign him for a year.
Regarding Kings signing him for one year (which dont make sense to you, not even a little bit).
The thing is, if we sign Kovi for one year it wouldnt be because we think we can win the cup this year. Ofcourse, anything can happen, but that would not be the reason. The reason would be this: Kovi can settle him down here with his family, and if they like it here, we have a great chance to resign him to a long term contract. He may realize that playing in the east coast is not so bad as many say. Maybe he will love to play with kopit. All theese factors might make it easier to resign him to a long term contract. And…DL will have a whole year to talk extension to him, I am sure they will come up with the perfect offer.
IF it will all be a flop, if Kings miss the playoffs, then we can trade him at the deadline as a rental like Atlanta did and get some good players/prospects in return.
We have nothing to loose of signing him to a one year contract. It doesn´t affect our abillity to resign DD, JJ and Simmonds..
I love this idea..
Have I converted you?
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Kwaz Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 2:35 am
@MacSwede,
I’m not sure how number 6 feels, but I am convinced by your argument. Having Kovalchuk for one year seems like a good gamble (if we can even sign him to a single year). If things work out great…if not then I am pretty sure that he could reap some quality picks or players at the trade deadline, which I might even prefer to signing him long term. Who doesn’t like draft picks and quality players already under contract?
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 7:51 am
@MacSwede,
Might be good for us, but Kovi? Not at all, isn’t gonna happen.
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Why have a salary cap if you do not plan to enforce it for every team.
The salary cap is supposed to provide a level financial playing field for all teams.
Will the NHL ever get it together?
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Thanks that all helped a lot but it leads me to another question. Does the cap hit count towards the teams max salary or the actual amount they are making?
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Sydor25 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 7:20 am
@Subby,
The cap hit is the only number that matter for the team’s max salary.
Capgeek.com is a wonderful reference for everything cap related:
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=17
You can click on the “show salaries” tab and see that the cap payroll/space doesn’t change, only the teams actualy payroll.
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Subby Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 10:13 am
@Sydor25, Thank you all for your knowledge
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tuan jim Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 11:50 am
@Sydor25,
Here’s an alternative to capgeek.com for some information, but presented in a way some might prefer:
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CHI&season=1011&expand=y
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BOTTOM LINE:
THE REASON THIS CONVERSATION STILL EXISTS IS THAT THE KINGS MANAGEMENT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THE KINGS GM IS M.I.A. AND HAVE MADE NO DEALS TO IMPROVE THE TEAM.
IF WE MADE SAY THREE OR FOUR DEALS ALREADY THIS OFFSEASON TO BOLSTER THE TEAM WE WOULD ONLY HAVE ABOUT 100 COMMENTS ON THIS SUBJECT..LOL
KINGS…MAKE SOME FRIGGIN MOVES TO BETTER YOURSELVS
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Michael J. Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 9:21 am
@RJB,
You hit the nail right on the head! Why isn’t DL on the phone telling other GM’s to give him their good players? I mean, what could be easier? “Just give us your talent, none whom are overpriced, and don’t ask for too much!”
And for UFA’s the conversation should be something like this: “OK Mr. Hamhius, we all know you have wanted to play for Vancouver for quite some time. But, just play for us rather than where you want to play.”
Or, “I know that you really want $100,000,000 for your client Mr. Grossman, and you think you can get that from Lou. Nevertheless, let me offer you $110,000,000. I’m sure the league won’t void a contravt like that.”
Yah, Just “make some friggin moves!” Doesn’t DL under that teams are lining up to give him their talent?
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VanKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 9:26 am
@Michael J.,
haha amazing post man… you were able to put into words exactly what I wanted to say to this guy.
If only RJB were our GM for a day, all our problems would be solved.
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Jorgen Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
@Michael J., why the dissregard to what RJB stated? Are you saying that DL made moves to better the team? Are you saying the excuse for not making any moves are that no one wants to play in LA? Isn’t that what a GM is for? To change that mindset? In that respect, DL has very much been MIA or failed.
Clearly, RJB stated facts: 1. Kings have not made any moves beside tying up some RFA’s. 2. If moves were made we would have discussed that rather than “40 Days of Kovy”. 3. Make moves to better the team. Right now, we are not better than previous season.
So why ridicule his post? I don’t get it?
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VanKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@Jorgen,
Are you both ignoring the Poni signing for some reason?? That is a move.
Sometimes not making a move is the best thing you can do.
Plenty of time left for many many things to happen and I just don’t like these assumptions when he has NO idea what Dean has done all off season besides what has been reported in the mainstream media.
I still really like our team and will reserve this kind of ‘failure’ talk for when the roster is set this season
Michael J Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
@Jorgen,
In answer to your questions, statements such as: “MAKE SOME FRIGGIN MOVES TO BETTER YOURSELVS” are simply not well thought out. I do wish that posters on this sight would practice some critical thinking before they type.
To the uninitiated it might seem that making any deal would at least be doing “something. But, as anyone who has ever owned or run a successful business knows-change for the sake of change is always a bad idea. And, I hardly think that DL has been spending his summer sitting in his air conditioned office with his feet up on his desk, basking in the glory of a six-game playoff run.
One key to making a deal is having a partner in the deal that is willing to do business with you, that meets both parties needs. Lets see how this might work out with a hypothetical trade…
Say, DL wants Dustin Penner. He’s a high scoring left winger that would fit nicely into the lineup. SO, DL calls up Tambellini and inquires about Penner. “Great” Tambellini says to himself, knowing he needs to dump Penner’s high salary. He also does not want to give the Kings their much needed “piece” for anything resembling “value for value”- it is also Tambellini’s job to make his team better through deals too, lest we forget.
But, an important part of any GM’s job is to know the other teams in the league-their strengths and their weaknesses. Tambellini knows the Kings are in great need of a scoring left wing, and that they are very deep with quality prospects in goal, on defense, and at center.Tambellini responds to DL: “Sure, we’ll take DB, Zaktoff, Hickey, and a 2nd.” DL hangs up the phone…
We need to remember that today, or August may not be the best time to make a deal. As the season opener nears clubs will have to trim payroll, which gives teams with salary cap room, such as the Kings, much greater leverage. Lets imagine our hypothetical deal goes nowhere, until a week before the season begins Tambellini is desperate to dump salary and the he calls DL with a proposal offering Penner for two prospects and a late draft pick. Now who is “IS M.I.A. AND HAVE MADE NO DEALS TO IMPROVE THE TEAM”?
In response to: “IF WE MADE SAY THREE OR FOUR DEALS ALREADY THIS OFFSEASON TO BOLSTER THE TEAM…” I wonder what deals and with whom he is talking about?
Another important factor is that the Kings have a lot of young talent that needs a good look in camp. How many rookies will crack the opening night lineup? Two? Four? Five?
Lets be patient. OK?
fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 10:02 am
@RJB, aanthony??? is that you???
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
@RJB, Sometimes the deals you don’t make are the important ones. Anaheim has certainly made some deals this offseason, but are they any better for it? They’re treading water by re-signing Teemu and Saku. They were desperate on the blue line so they signed a turnover machine and a human traffic cone. Is this any improvement other than one in numbers?
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
@deadcatbounce, Also, even when (and I’m confident they will) re-sign Bobby Rayn, they’re just kleeping the status quo from last year so any improvement would have to be internal. A signing or acquisition doesn’t necessarily imply improvement.
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Random thought:
Kind of upset we let Radko Gudas get away from us; but Tampa made him a third round pick… I am happier with Jordan Weal!
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Random thought #2
Saw today that Jared Tinordi turned down the NCAA to join the London Knights in the O…. I reeaallly wish Derek Forbert had done this instead.
What do you think? CHL or College?
London Knights offer: better competition (IMO), more games, more flexibility, much bigger hockey culture
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
@VanKingsFan, I’ll never criticize a kid who wants to attend university. The hockey isn’t as strong as in juniors, but the chance to get an education is priceless. You have to remember that most of the players in juniors will never play any significant amount of time in the NHL and I think it’s refreshing when a kid wants to get an education as well as play the sport he loves.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
@deadcatbounce,
Completely and totally agree… however what a lot of people don’t realize is that the OHL provides:
Basically, here’s the deal. Sounds very sweet. An OHL player is entitled to one year of post-OHL, post-secondary education cash for each year he is in the league.
Play a year, get one year. Play four, get four.
That includes tuition, textbooks and compulsory fees. Top picks, and a limited number of others, also get room and board covered. It can be used at any recognized university or college in the world.
Of course, there are catches. If you sign an NHL, AHL or European pro contract, you lose your education package.
You can keep it if you play in a lower North American pro loop. However, there’s another catch. You only have 18 months to access it after leaving the OHL. Otherwise, it disappears.
There are a few other random rules but I think it gives the “Junior hockey route” a way higher upside.
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tornado12 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
@VanKingsFan, and much less education…going to college is the better way for his future, there is life after hockey!
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TB Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
@tornado12,
Just some food for thought…If you didn’t earn a scholarship to a college or university, the OHL is a route that can make a higher education much more affordable for the average kid. My 2 cents…
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tornado12 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
@TB, thx for the edumacation. Though i dont think they should include those “catches” that Van mentions above. if they choose the OHL, then they should get an unlimited time to use the education credits. Also, may I add that when playing in college, you are learning hockey skills as well as getting an education at the same time. I would admit though that the OHL is probably a superior system to learn hockey. question, do OHL players get paid?
So, if the NHL investigates and also voids the contracts of Pronger, Hossa, Luongo, and Savard (and that’s a big “if,” to be sure), I think the Kings ought to look at signing Hossa to a deal. He won his Cup, but the team he’s with looks like it’s sinking fast with all the guys they’ve lost. Perhaps if he’s suddenly a free agent again, he’d be more apt to sign with a team that’s on the way up.
Pronger would be nice (he certainly proved he hasn’t lost a step in the playoffs), but probably too expensive, and his cap hit is now year-to-year. I think even if he gets his deal voided, he’s not leaving Philly.
Savard… I’m just not sold on him. Another center would be nice, but I think the Kings’ bigger need is on the wings and on defense.
Luongo… uh, no. The Kings will be fine in net with a Quick/Bernier tandem.
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So when does camp start?I need some hockey STAT.
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AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Why am I checking this site every five minutes again???? Please Rich, post something new about the guys that are on our team….pretty please. Heck, I would even settle for a story about that time that Baily hit a guy from behind during the sumo wrestling contest in between periods and knocked the dude out. Please throw this dog a bone…………DAMN YOU KOVALCHUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Its amazing how if you want to clear your head and state some facts on your favorite Hockey team you are labeled “Aanthony” I think the back and forth banter is great except when some feel their thoughts are superior more so then others. I love it
Signed, The Newest Anthony Of The Week
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fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@RJB, Look Rjb, the reason I said that is you sound just like Aanthony, you are just complaining saying our gm hasnt done his job, cant do his job and there has been no improvement in the team. Have you ever been a gm? have you ever been involved in any negotiation for a contract worth millions before? If clearing your mind takes blasting Dean Lonbardi then please do it in your mind. Tell us how you would have done things differently? Tell us who you would have signed and how you would hae accomplished that please dont just blather forth and spew without offering logical and competent solutions. Have you not read who DL made offers too or was trying to sign before Kovalpuke? Thats all Im saying, offer us something instead of random anger on a topic that you know nothing of (unless you ARE a GM of a hockey team) thats all i was saying. I’m sorry you are so angry and frustrated. Im frustrated too, just not angry, Im happy with what DL has done so far the last few years, I like the team we are putting on the ice, I like the pipeline we have and i happily drink DL’s koolaid every day!
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puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
@fsd1, Very well stated. Besides Kovaljerk and Poni, the only 2 others Dean said he made offers to were Hamhuis, and Martin and they both said thanx, but no thanx. WOW..I wish we could have got Paul Martin, he is extremely versitile and really underated.
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im a long time kings fan who doesnt post usually but i must say im really starting to wonder what management has done this off season to improve this team.
1) we lost 1 dman to knife (greene) and another solid vet dman (odonnel)big mistake imho since he was very to cheap to retain = we lost exp at blue line and are relying on DD & JJ & RS to log even more ice time(more isnt always better when they are already playing as much as they can handle…ie diminished results)
2) we lose fro but gain a similiar player = a wash basically
3) the ” are you kidding ” comment is a slap in the face of kings fans since your very next point is that the kings announce tickets go on sale (ie they want their money even more than Kovy does)
4) hey DL why not offer Kovy every penny left in the kings cap for a 1 yr deal since you arent doing much else this offseason
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There seems to be a lot of controversy about whether or not DL has failed in this off season and as a whole as our GM. After some thought and many conversations with other Kings fans, I think the best assessment is to compare him to Frolov. Some fans loved Fro and others not so much.
DL is definitely strong in the draft. But that comes with the help of a supporting cast. Just like Frolov being able to play on the right lines. If you took away our great scouts and put DL with a group of people who he did not gel with, I doubt our drafting would be so wonderful.
DL has great potential as our GM but has failed to realize that potential on any consistent basis. He has consistently not come through when needed. Just like what was said of Frolov when he was benched.
Compared to other GMs DL has had a fairly complacent attitude towards signing talent (UFA, RFA and Prospects). He has taken a more wait and see position. This has led to much of the talent pool being signed by other teams. Just like some of the comments of Frolov being “lazy” for lack of a better term!
Whether or not DL has tried his best, it is a fact that he has not been able to land the big named talent that he has gone after. Just like Frolov has tried but not been able to play to the potential that was expected of him.
Fact- Frolov is no longer on this team
Fact-We are not improved over last year
Fact- There was a decent number of UFA that could have improved our team.
You can’t judge anyone who is in some way responsible for improving this team based on potential or effort. You can only judge by results.
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fsd1 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
@Redlights, so the improvement to 102 points last year, who do you attribute that to? did dl have anything to do with that result? how can we compare him for the upcoming season? and i have a hard time relating the gm’s job to frolov
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
@Redlights,
“Fact- Frolov is no longer on this team
Fact-We are not improved over last year
Fact- There was a decent number of UFA that could have …”
The only “Fact” in the 3 “Fact’s” you mentioned is “Frolov is no longer on the team”. The rest are, at this point, nothing more than opinions.
The only way improvement can be measured as a “Fact” is by results (i.e. the end of this upcoming season).
You have no way of knowing what UFA would of signed with any other GM and whether or not it would of improved the team. This can only be someone’s guess and nothing more.
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anonandonanon Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@Redlights, You have hit the nail on the head. The guys who are reveling in the status quo seem to think Dean’s got all his fecal material in a nice big pile. If Dean is responsible for the 102 points he better send DT a thank you note. His plan has included 3 of the worst seasons on record. And the worst of those got him DD. This particular off-season sees him almost hypnotized by the flashy bit of fluff that caused him to miss real players for real holes. Now maybe he’s got some highly complicated 9 way deal all arranged that has incredible bargains and fantastic players and is waiting on the fluff to pull it off. But to me he has missed a real and perfect opportunity to improve this club. You guys might have just witnessed The Dean fumble the puck. Yeah D+. No more excuses.
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justlu Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
@Redlights,
You shouldn’t have been so wordy. This is it in a nutshell.
Kings+Poni-(Frolov & O’donnell)= No improvement through FA.
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FACT: It’s been 41 days since July 1st!
FACT: The best off-season UFA is still a UFA!
FACT: There’s 55 days till opening day!
FACT: Saying the team is not improved over last year in the middle of July is NOT a fact – it is an OPINION! Putting the word “Fact” in front of it doesn’t make it so.
FACT: Saying a decent number of UFAs could have improved the team without seeing them play a minute on the team IS also NOT a FACT but an OPINION!
FACT: Judging Lombardi’s off-season moves BEFORE the end of this season (April 2011) IS judging based on perceived potential and remains an OPINION until the overall performance of the team and its players can be measured to prior years.
Please, get your FACTS straight! Because frankly if your opinions are based on faulty facts, your opinions will most likely be faulty.
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TB Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
@dMan,
FACT: My blood pressure just went up 20 points after reading this post. hahaha! jk
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dMan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
@dMan,
FACT: meant to put middle of Summer instead of July! My bad!
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number 6 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
@dMan,
dMan, I don’t know if you have any recollection of me responding to your posts in the past…. but dude, there are a few guys (and or girls) who really ‘get it’ in terms of their understanding not just of the game, the structure of a team, the dynamics that go into the whole thing….. the bigger picture if you like. You unquestionably are one of those people.
I always try and read your postings – because they just make sense….. and that in and of itself isn’t nearly as evident as one may think.
So….. thank you.
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dMan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
@number 6, Thanks.
The feeling is mutual.
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I think it’s commonly agreed upon that the Kings have holes and that those holes need to be filled in order for us to improve and get past the 1st round.
I think it’s fairly apparent that the Kings (DL) set out to do things that didn’t get done! Now if they are to get done it will cost us talent and cash/cap space.
102 points mean nothing if we don’t improve on that.
If you don’t think that there were some quality players out there that could have improved us as a team, then you are in opposition of many GMs.
I’m not saying that DL has not improved this team over the years but he has failed to bring in the player(s) to make us a real competitor. …… So far!
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dMan Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
@Redlights, that’s the spirit!
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luc20rules Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
@Redlights, I understand your point of view, but the NHL is like the MLB in that it has farm teams. In MLB ask San Diego or Texas if they improved from last season to the current season without major signings. Just incase you don’t follow MLB both teams have gone from 3rd last year 20 games out of the playoffs to Division leaders Texas by about 9 games. So in the NHL and MLB, I think you can have 4 or 5 guys come up at the same time while in other sports just with the current years draft its alot harder. Just look at Colorado yes they did add Goalie Anderson, but the farm sent up several quality players last year. With as many draft picks and rookie free agents that we have signed on D I wouldn’t be terribly suprised if 2 prospects come up huge at that position. As for forwards we have some skill down at the farm maybe not 1-3 types but 4-9 types for sure.
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puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
@luc20rules, Great point about Colorado. Most people thought the Kings would make the playoffs last season but very few thought the Kings would end up with 101 points. As for Colorado..NOBODY thought the Avs would be anywhere near the playoffs, in fact most thought they would be dead last in the West. I know for sure that nobody thought that Anderson would pretty much carry the Avs on his back all the way to the postseason especially with Sakic retiring and the Avs going with a lot of young players. So to all those who wanna criticize Dean..you might wanna hold off a bit until opening night and see what the roster looks like then.
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Interesting FACTS & OPINIONS going back and forth here today. I think both sides make a good arguement. However, it is very common for even the EXPERTS to say:”The ______’s have improved their team by aquiring so &so.” Case and point: The recent official signing of SHAQ in Boston. Some experts say “They have improved” without seeing SHAQ play with the team. That talk is all over the radio. I dont think its unfair to say that the team was not improved upon by the lack of signings.
Sure you need time to make it a FACT, but….thats just my OPINION.
I just hope we DO as a matter of FACT improve!! Even with the lack of moves I’m still excited for this next season.
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Damn if I’m ready for opening nite at Staples! Got seats today almost identical to the ones we sat in for the playoffs.
Although I’m retired now and can’t afford nor have the time for season seats (go figure I wouldn’t have the time!), sitting close to Pat Sajak makes my girlfriend quite happy as she LOVES Wheel!
Now…….when is this here season start???
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I don’t think sajac comes to the games anymnore. Last year my season tix were near him and i don’t recall seeing him at the end of the season. His primary residence is back east in DC.
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I have to admit that I was expecting something more this offseason with regards to free agents. I was secretly hoping for Kovi at the right price but was equally hoping for a Volchenkov or Hamhuis. I have no idea what really went on with the last two free agents (and others Dean might have gone after)but I do know that the west coast travel issue might have figured in with us coming up empty and there is also the issue of some guys wanting to play in specific cities (Hamhuis, maybe Volchenkov among others I’m sure). If we get Kovi by some strange stretch of luck (and his situation from day one has been plenty strange), then we do. We have over ten million in cap space and there are plenty of trade and free agent possibilities still out there. Things will heat up once Kovi signs and training camp nears. We can still reap a productive offseason yet. Let’s be patient and judge once the season starts.
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luc20rules Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
@kiosku2, NHL currently is investigating salary cap circumvention on Hossa, Savard, Luongo, & Pronger contracts. As you mentioned the Kings have as much as 16 million in cap space if they decide to have Schenn in the juniors again and Greene’s on IR to start the season. Can you imagine Pronger and Hossa signing UFA one year 6 mil contracts after there contracts are voided. What if DL can work a Lebron Spin and get 3 of them to sign together(not Luongo). Nobody else has the cash & Cap Space.
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Opinion: 92 or fewer points (Not Fact But Very Close Too)
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Oh, and that is not as good as last season and a step backwards (FACT)
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John Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 7:02 am
@RJB,
Not if we make the playoffs with Bernier, Hickey and Schenn. Adding 3 more players to the core is not a step backwards (FACT)
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But of course we need to wait until March or April to confirm
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Really Rich? A Kovy post and Who is a better enforcer on the ice Posting..All this since returning from a long and well deserved vacation?…
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PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLLS!
THANK YOU.
gKg!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QAVtFuN9Cg
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Its funny that after arguably the best Kings season in at least 10 years, all these bigmouth blowhards are calling for DLs head. ha ha fin ha you morons, a move will be made and we will be just fine. Join the Ducks bandwagon, theyre going to need a fresh influx of quacks in the next couple years.
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Dominick Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
O.K. these last couple of posts made me laugh.
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KC23 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
@signzhitnik,
Still 2 months away from the start of the season too. A lot can happen.
Do not judge the dish until it is served.
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puck73 Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
@signzhitnik, Speaking of the Ducks, you know why they exist ? Because Bruce “The soap on the rope kid” Mcnall accepted 35 million dollars from Michael Eisner for the right to be in Anaheim. Back then, Mcnall owned the territorial rights according to the NHL’S bi-laws and could have told Eisner to take a hike, instead he pocketed the money, then had the audacity to show up for the Ducks home opener with a Ducks tie on, sitting in the suite next to Eisner..Laughing ! I became so enraged when I saw this that I personally wanted to drive over to the pond and drag his ass right out of that suite, then stuff him in the trunk of my car and drive back to the Forum and call all the season ticket holders over and have them all watch while I beat this guy senseless with my Marcel Dionne autographed hockey stick !
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Steve Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 1:24 am
@puck73, In his book, Bob Miller states that putting a team in Anaheim was a mistake!
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Kings Fan in Temecula Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 1:53 am
@Steve,It is, it totally is, its makes zero sense. Why put two teams that do the same exact thing so close too each other? Its like the lakers and clippers and we all know how thats working out.
What about Kaberle? Would you think he would be a good fit both financially and playing within the system or would he cost too much in players(trade)/salary to make it worth the Kings going after him…any thoughts?
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I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON Maxim Afinogenov FROM ATLANTA. HE COULD CONTRIBUTE GREATLY TO THE KINGS AND IS STILL A FREE AGENT !!!
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John Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 6:59 am
@Zack Rothstein,
He’s reported to have signed a 5 year deal in Russia
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=329691
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*sigh* it is as silent as ever out there, nothing new to report? I wonder what DL is doing now… Is he considering making an offer to Kovalchuk again, either long term or short term? Is he talking to other GM´s about trade options? Or is he simply playing the waiting game to see what happen with kovi and/or the possible fining of New Jersey?
This drives me crazy
I dont judge DL like others here do, I actually trust him allthough I was maybe a little dissapointed when Kovalchuk signed at first for NJ. I think the Poni signing is a very good signing. It is for one year, so it dont affect DD, JJ and WS renewal. He will fit better than Frolov in the third line.
But nevertheless, we still have holes in our lineup. Some complain about that we dont have improved the team, and some think that we are as good as last year. But in my opinion we are not as good as last year since we have lost a couple of players on the defense. But I am not worried. I think DL will fill this holes in the defense by letting some prospects step up, and he also will aquire another 5-6 defenseman, maybe a top 4. Worst case scenario, our defense will be as good as last year, with a better goalie duo in Quick/Bernier.
But up front we lack scoring. I am a little concerned about our wingers. Dustin Brown maybe could step up to be a first line winger, but he seem to fit well in the 2nd. Williams is a big questionmark? He thrived alongside Kopitar at the beginning of the season, but after the injury he never was the same. Ryan Smyth is very important for us, but I think that he will fit best on the 2nd line.
So we dont have a good winger for Kopitar, and that concerns me. That is the missing piece for next season. There is still much time, so I hope and trust that DL will come up with something.
If Kovalchuk still signs in NJ, and they will be fined they have to get rid of some players.
Do you think Parise is untouchable? I would love him here, or else we can take Elias for a cheap price..
It is hard to wait and wait and wait for some good news, but at the same time it is very exciting.
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 6:44 am
@MacSwede, I don’t understand everybody who insists that the Devils will have to get rid of Parise or, as you mentioned, Elias. Why in the world would they do this rather than dumping lesser players like Chicago did? You can replace third and fourth line players more easily than you can top six forwards, so the constant speculation that the Kings could somehow acquire either of these players is, at least to me, ludicrous. Also, you can’t take Elias for a “cheap price” if he’s already under contract at an inflated salary.
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deadcatbounce Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 6:48 am
@MacSwede, You know, I don’t want to make it seem as if I’m picking on you in particular because I’m not, but what you suggested with the Devils might be like if the Kings eventually faced salary cap issues because they signed Doughty to a monster contract and then people started saying that they could take Kopitar to give the Kings salary cap relief. Again, why would the Kings do this rather than dumping guys like Simmonds, Richardson, Jonson, etc.? People, look at the bigger picture and think before you post!
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There have been posts farther up from a couple of people who claim that Anaheim has made improvements in their roster from last season. What improvements? The re-signing of Koivu and Selanne only means that they’re treading water. If you really think that signing a turnover machine and a human traffic cone are blue line improvements, it is in terms of numbers, at least, not necessarily talent. In fact, they’re still not potentially as strong as they were last season because Bobby Ryan remains unsigned. So, those of you who claim that Anaheim has reloaded and improved, please tell me where the improvement is!!!
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Bingram Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 7:17 am
@deadcatbounce, I’m agreeing with the ‘cat’. With the lose of Scott Niedermayer and Wisniewski on the blue line and Gigi in goal, the Ducks can’t have improved their team. They have a solid first line but not much else.
Go Kings go!
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Bingram Reply:
August 12th, 2010 at 8:11 am
@deadcatbounce, I agree completely. How can the lose of Niedimayer and Wisniwski on the blue line and Gigi in net, improve a team. The still have a potent first line but not much else.
Go Kings go!
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