As we commemorate the two-week mark of the Kovalchuk drama — Remember July 1? It was a much simpler time… — let’s look at what seems to be a moderately-held misconception about contracts in the salary-cap era, such as the idea that a contract that pays an average of $8.5 million a year is always, by definition, better than a contract that pays an average of $6.5 million a year. Let’s break it down.
Let’s say — and these are ALL hypothetical numbers — that Team A offered a 27-year-old star player a 13-year, $84.5-million contract. That’s $6.5 million a year. Then let’s say Team B offered the same player a seven-year, $59.5-million contract. That’s $8.5 million a year. Slam dunk, right? You take the one that pays $2 million more per year. No, not necessarily. Not if you’re looking long term and playing it in a more conservative fashion.
Team B’s contract would pay the player big money during his prime years, and he would be a free agent again in 2017, at age 34. Team A’s contract would pay the player essentially for the rest of his career, until age 40. That’s the big difference. In the salary-cap era, a team will often seek to front-load in order to keep the cap number (average salary) down, because the salary cap is based on average salary, not on actual dollars paid per year.
So let’s look at the two offers side by side.
Let’s say Team B structured its offer to include an equal amount of money every year. That’s $8.5 million, every year, for seven years. Assume that, for the first seven years, Team A agreed to pay the player (in actual salary) the exact same as Team B, $8.5 million per year. That would leave Team A paying, in real dollars, $25 million over the last six years of the player’s contract (an average of $4.17 million), which would have made him a free agent at age 40. So, essentially, if he chose Team B’s offer, he would be betting on his own future. He would be betting that, from the ages of 34 to 40, he would be able to make MORE than the $25 million that Team A would have guaranteed him by locking up those years right now.
If you want to break it down further, let’s assume that Team A’s salary structure for the player after the initial seven years might look like this:
2017-18 (age 34) — $6.5 million
2018-19 (age 35) — $6.5 million
2019-20 (age 36) — $4 million
2020-21 (age 37) — $4 million
2021-22 (age 38) — $2 million
2022-23 (age 39) — $2 million
However you want to cut it up, in order for Team B’s offer to be better financially for the player, he would have to make more that total ($25 million) for those six years. Is it a worthy gamble? If, at age 34, the player believed he could get a six-year, $30-million (or more) contract, then yes, it would be worthy. Back in the real world, in Ilya Kovalchuk’s case, the reported issue has his desire for a $100-million contract, which complicates this math even further, because it either means a $10-million salary for a 37-year-old winger or a massive ($13 million?) salary for a 27-year-old winger. Isn’t math fun?
Thanks for the breakdown Rich. I was hoping for something else to be announced (any guesses) but none-the-less thanks for your insight.
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Snoop Dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
@Joey No-No, I don’t know about you guys but this recession is killing me. Records don’t sell like they once did.
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Ice Cube 4 Life Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
@Snoop Dogg, Snoop – keep your head ringing – don’t let Ilya keep you down. Wessia fo lia!
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SvCichlid Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
@Joey No-No,
I was too hoping for some real news. There is a great website that details every team”s and Player”s calary and team cap.
http://www.thehockeygm.com/ check it out.
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Snoop Dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
@SvCichlid, Thanks, Ice. I’ll keep it spinn’n.
DL needs to drop IK like it’s hot.
Ya feel me?!
For reals though. What da dilly with this.
Why do we all care?
Are we all that bored at the office?
Who the heck is IK any way. Get me Jay Z to run the PP.
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Mike J. Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
@Snoop Dogg,
Yes, we are all bored at the office! I liken this situation with Kovalchuck to a SoCal storm. You know what I’m talking about, “Storm Watch 2010″ where you have a reporter standing out there reporting on 1/4 inch of rain. *rolls eyes* So we can call this, “Kovi Watch 2010″ and have Rich out in front of Staples with a rain coat giving us reports every hour. It’s not like he’s doing anything anyways! Just kidding Rich… or am I?
As far as the non-moves go, it makes me think that Dean was happy with what he saw out of the team last year, knows what he has coming, and won’t screw everything up to sign a name player. If he gets Kovi at his price, great, otherwise, just walk away. Just walk away.
Rich, outstanding work. Thanks for breaking that down. Some have eluded to that but no one hs broken it down as well as you have. Thanks
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To quote a whiny Jedi – “I have a bad feeling about this…”
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Kingsfanone Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
@Danielle,
That quote is from Han Solo actually, but the implications are precise.
That’s why you are a contracts lawyer and I watch Star Wars. And I have no complaints!!!
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Danielle Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
@Kingsfanone,
Several of the major characters have said it at one time or another (including Leai and 3PO), which is why it has become a running gag. I did inadvertently leave out the word “very” which probably would have clarified the reference to Luke’s quote as they were approaching the Death Star, rather than Han’s in the trash compactor. (Yes, I’m a nerd, and I do watch Star Wars)
A bigger nerd than me actually went to the trouble of compiling some clips – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drkh0YLF8rI
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My head hurts. That’s why I majored in History.
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This whole thing is code right? In truth, these are the two offers that Rich Hammond has received from the Kings to continue his fine work.
I say hold out Rich! You know that the Kovalchuk deal is being held up by you!
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Here’s some Math for ya Rich… If the companies of all the Kings fans posting on this board chipped in the amount of man hours lost of all of us checking this site over and over again throughout the day we could pay him 20 mil a season
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shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:16 am
@LAKings6, ROFLMAO…wait, this is true…why am I laughing? Oh yeah…not my company!
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Rich-
Do you know what Kovy did yesterday? I know Monday he took the grand tour of the practice facilities, but do you know what his plans were for yesterday? Any dinners with DL?
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Rich Hammond Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 9:57 am
@Kingsfan,
I believe Sunday night and Monday were spent in the South Bay and the majority of Tuesday was spent downtown. I have no idea about dinners, etc.
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Anonymous Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:02 am
@Rich Hammond, Thanks for responding. Hopefully he liked Manhattan Beach as much as many other NHL players.
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The only thing I hate more than math is this interminable saga. Stupid Kings obsession!
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Cmon Rich are we going to sign the Russian powerhouse or not ?
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Thanks for the update rich. I’ve been refreshing all morning. This is driving me nuts!! Goo kings!
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Thanks Rich…
However, I’m a math major, and it’s my summer break now. I didn’t actually read this post, but thanks for the work anyway
Basically, we have to tack on some extra years to make the money cap-friendly. But because the Kings CAN make it work better than anybody else, I feel they WILL.
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The math would be even more fun if “player A” would finally sign a freakin’ contract!
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Kovulchuk deserves to be the highest paid player on our team. If Dean is trying to sell him on taking a deal under Kopi or anyone else, he is not serious, and it mean that Lie-Weekly is pulling the strings, and guess who gets the shaft? Feel that in the back of your throat? That’s how much the Kings would be screwing us. As a 17 year seaons ticket holder this would be too much to handle.
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Anonymous Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:17 am
@Krusher, Did you even read the article? Kopitar’s actual SALARY for the next 2 seasons is 6 million, and tops to 7.7 million by the end of the contract. His cap hit is 6.8
What is being said here is that, with a long-term, front-loaded contract, we could give “Player A” an actual salary of 8.5 million for the FIRST SEVEN YEARS OF THE CONTRACT, and then 25 million over the last 6. With this scenario, he WOULD be the highest paid player on the team, yet still only incur a 6.5 million CAP HIT to the team.
People need to understand that the CAP HIT is not necessarily what the SALARY is. That was the entire point of this article.
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King Cobra Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:24 am
@Krusher,
Lie-Weekly, LOL!!! I Love It!!
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You forgot the “Over 35″ rule too. Once they sign contracts after they are 35 the rules for calculating cap hit get even more goofy.
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quisp Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:04 am
@OldSkool,
The rule is you can’t buy the guy out and get cap relief if it’s an over 35 contract.
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OldSkool Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
@quisp, That’s part of it. The other part of it is that you can’t get rid of the contract if the players reitres, dies or whatever. This is to keep teams from signing someone like Blake to a 10 year deal that pays 5million this year and league minimum the rest of the time and making the cap hit really low this year and then remove it when he retires.
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Captain Material Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
@quisp,
I recall from the Pronger thing, isn’t it any contract that goes into effect after the guy turns 35? Pronger’s case being an extension he signed before 35 that went into effect after.
Wondering how it works if you sign a 25yo to a 15 year deal. It goes into effect under 35, so it would be exempt (could be bought out, gotten rid of through retirement, etc.), no?
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This analysis clearly illuminates why DL can’t break the bank on one player. It is not an issue of AEG being cheap but a cap issue. Need to have money left over to pay the rest of your players.
This leaves a player like IK (or any other star) with basically a dichotomy of choices. Get a 10 year contract from a bad team without any other star players (they have cap space because they are low on talent) or get a lower playing contract with a more competitive team.
Seems to come down to winning versus very big bucks. IK has to decide what he wants more. One has to appreciate how DL is tanding his ground…
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rontheking Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:32 am
@Steve S., good point my man! That is what it is all about, and the Kings are on the upswing versus the aging decrepit devils–they’re in a hell of a state! Old and losing their teeth…it’s more fun to win Kovi!
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Has it ever been mentioned if Kovalchuk actually wants 100M or he just wants the number on the contract to be 100M?
If its the former, he can go to the KHL or Long Island.
if its the latter, 100M over 16 years (paying him 80M over the first 10 years, then he retires) seems reasonable.
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puddle Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:11 am
@Jim Jones, I think those are the kind of deals that get you an unpleasant call from Mr. Bettman. Kings have to be careful.
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Captain Material Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
@Jim Jones,
No inside info, but seems like mainly he didn’t want to play in ATL. The 100M keeps coming up, but that just seems to be because he turned it down (but really it seems like he just turned down playing in a place he didn’t want to be).
I think it had been suggested that $10M per was where he and his agent started and hoped they could finish (and hey, he’s probably because of age the most valuable UFA ever, so maybe $10M wouldn’t be considered unreasonable in some sense, say without cap considerations), but the reality of the market (cap) has clearly set in.
The KHL isn’t even rumored to be offering $10M per, so it simply doesn’t exist in the NHL. It’s unfortunate for Kovalchuk and his agent, but there are two teams realistically in the game, and they are both run by two of the most conservative GMs in the league.
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Rich, This my first post and wanted to thank you for contributing and preventing me from doing my job every day
You’re the best. Thanks!
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Those are all numbers I am willing to live with. I just hope IK is, too.
IK take the deal and suppliment it with Hollywood deals.
You and the missus will be happy and rich.
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So Rich, since the Kings won’t throw us a bone…why don’t you share with us why you felt we were going to have a resolution to this yesterday?
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jammer06 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:50 am
@Freddy Fingers,
My guess is he know Ik was set to fly home for his “engagement” and everyone in the Kings office had an internal deadline to know where they stood while he was here.
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Kovalchuk is simply not worth the kind of big money/long term deal he is demanding. End of discussion. If he wants that kind of money I say see you in the KHL next season you greedy bum.
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Math is fun. Soooo, why this an not an update? It looks like a cut and paste from a email DL sent you? What’s UP!!!!
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So basically he is decided between these two contracts the kings offered him ?
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Rich-
Uh, could you repeat that?
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Brilliant stuff Rich. Great information on the inner workings of salaries and salary cap. Thanks
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Please please please can the Kings be James Bond and Kovalchuk be Tatiana?
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Love it Rich. Thanks. Hopefully something comes to fruition. If not, can anyone say Bobby Ryan? LOL.
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You have to wonder at what point do the Kings put their final offer out there, and say we do this or we don’t. Because unless they’ve forgotten that there is more to the team than IK, I believe they have some work to do to prepare for the upcoming season. Of course I wouldn’t be saying that if they appeared to actually be doing something in the past two weeks besides catering to this Russian primadonna…
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Thanks for the analysis which I did not read. I always hated math (and I have 3 college degrees..bachelors, masters and doctorate) At this point in time I just want to know yes or no..and I have renewed yet another season. Hopefully this will be a great one
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10 27
10 28
10 29
10 30
8 31
8 32
7 33
6 34
5 35
5 36
5 37
5 38
5 38
5 40
1 41
$100 over 15 years.
Is he THAT good……
I think it could be done.
I think we will see the CUP.
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Freddy Fingers Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:26 am
@empire,
Although I agree with your plan here, and that’s the only way to structure a 100-mil deal to work with a reasonable cap hit…can you imagine losing 6.5 mil of cap space to a 37, 38, 39, 40, 41-year old Kovalchuk. UGH
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John Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:34 am
@empire,
What’s the cap hit?
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Eric C. Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:40 am
@John, 6.7 per.
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jammer06 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:54 am
@empire,
Congratulations you’ve just spelled out the NJ offer basically which was 70 over 8 years 8.75 cap hit (or so it was reported) with the extra 30 million. Hard to compare that one to the 13 year offer Rich pointed out above.
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src Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:58 am
@empire,
Well gents, I say its time to move on. I understand the guy wants bank and justifiably so. But that is too much. We are then handcuffed.
I believe that DL and co. will do what is right.
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empire Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
I agree with all of you on the cap hot after the 10th year.
But, where will we be in 2020????
Possibly, the economy is booming, the KINGS have won the cup several times, the cap for us is at 90+mil and we have an aging team.
A 6.6 cap hit does not sound so bad..
Sounds like other dynasties…..
Got to start somewhere.
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Okay, twitter.com/RyanSmyth94 has just said:
“Fake tweets have been deleted. Account hacked. Sorry to my fans and followers. Verified soon”
So all that stuff last night was total BS… oy.
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Interesting that Rich would pick the 2 rumored contract offers, one by the Kings and one by NJ.
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Rich, are you at liberty to comment on the status of negotiations? I imagine the scenario above has been discussed at length with kovys camp. can we assume the ball is in their court on whether they want to take the gamble? Any idea when there will be a “final decision”?
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Hey Rich. Thanks for the info. A couple of questions:
Is Ilya still in town?
Is their a $ amount known from the Russian league offer?
Lastly; I trust DL.
THANKS.
Shane
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Mike L Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:30 am
@shane,
Ilya went home yesterday afternoon
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John Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:39 am
@Mike L,
He had to go home to get his Crown & prepare to return for the weekend press conference.
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Like a lot of fans, I’m just ready for this thing to be over. However, at this point, a bigger concern to me is if IK is going to play nice with others if he gets a long term contact with the Kings. If the 100M number is true, great player or not, I have to wonder if he’s playing for the love of the game, and to win. Here’s hoping, which ever way it goes, it works out well for LA.
For the record, I know very little about IK’s personality. I don’t think I’ve ever even seen an interview with him, strangely.
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Wow rich great job. But I one day look forward to reading something not relted to the Kovy hostage crises as puck daddy would put it
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I wonder how the rest of the Kings players feel about all this hoopla.
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Jonathan Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:22 am
@Goring 19,
I’m sure many of them have a passing familiarity with it, but I doubt anyone is caught up in the hoopla like we are.
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All the math scenarios have already been posted all over the internet. Thanks for that Rich, but I think we are all waiting for signing news. From the reactions, I think that most people just want news on “if he signs, how close it is, what are the chances, even hearing some rumors…….anything”, but posting a post every 4 or 6 hours, forces die hards, like me, to search the internet to feed their hunger for more news…I appreciate your approach to this whole matter, but I think it just adds unneeded aggravation to this whole ordeal. I realize some will disagree, but I really care less. Rich, I love what you do, just not with this situation.
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wow…2 weeks, to think how many of us wasted most of the day on July 1st, checking the internet every couple minutes for news of a Kovalchuk signing…haha
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goldielocks Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:39 am
@LB,
Yep. LA Kings Insider Home page has become the wallpaper for my computer since 7/1.
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Scootty Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:22 am
@LB,
Most of one day? I only wish.
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LB Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:45 am
@Scootty,
I know, parts of many other days too…but at least that was the only day where I was checking all day long. The PuckDaddy chatterbox feed was great for updates.
Will I have learned a lesson and not waste my time when next July 1st comes? Doubt it.
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But that analysis is just from the TEAMS perspective. To complicate matters, you have to look at it from the PLAYER’S perspective as well.
There are many more factors involved for the player:
Tax rates (CA high taxes; no tax KHL; Jersey- don’t know)cost of living; lifestyle; ability of team to be competitive; and the two biggest in my mind- present value of today’s contract vs future value (read:inflation, what’s 1.5mil/year worth in today’s dollars vs 2020 dollars?) and league robustness/future cap issues.
We’re already hearing rumblings of a standoff in 2 years over reducing the cap. What’s the cap situation going to be in 2017? 2020? 2023? Better? Worse? No cap? Luxury tax?
Start factoring in ALL of this and you start to see maybe why this is taking so long. Due diligence, the player here is taking a lot of risk, even if he’s signing for an apparently HUGE amount of money (don’t get me wrong, I think it is an obscene amount).
For the team, it seems pretty cut and dried- “Here’s what we can afford, here’s why, here’s what we’re planning on doing.”
From the player’s side, it is much more complex than taking the largest number and signing on the dotted line.
This is why I just don’t get the “Just sign him Deano!!” posts-the team wants him, but he’s got to figure if it works for him, and it’s not JUST about the dollars being offered.
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sstephen17 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:49 am
@Spike, Interesting point so I actually Googled it and found that NJ’s income tax rate is 8.9% for anything over $500k per year. CA’s is 10.3%. For an $84.5 million dollar contract, that would be a different of ~ $1.2 million or about 1% of the total.
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AA Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:06 am
@sstephen17, I may be wrong about this, but at least in the NBA, the state income tax is not on 100% of the contract value, but on the % of time that you play in the state. So with half the games being away, the state income tax on half the contract value is constant between CA and NJ. The difference between the two would be half of the $1.2 million figure you arrived at.
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sstephen17 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:47 am
@AA, Good point. I’d hazard to guess that Kovi would get far more endorsement opportunities in LA than in NJ, more than enough to recoup the difference.
Rich you are the man!! Thanks for your hard work on all of this. One thing I keep reading here and there is that some people think Kovalchuk is a prima gonna. So have some of you actually seen him play? The guy scores, hits and on occasion will fight. Not Semin style fighting, actual exchange blows fighting. The guy has heart and skill, which is just another piece to the puzzle! In Dean I trust, if this doesn’t work I know something else will!
Go Kings!!!
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This information is really what makes me feel like Grossman is much more culpable than we are hearing. Everyone has some sort of gripe about how “Kovalchuk” is handling this, but Grossman, as Kovalchuk’s agent, is supposed to have Ilya’s best interest at heart and try to get him the best deal. It seems that up until this time, the “best deal” is simply the deal that gets him the most money. It’s in Kovalchuk’s best interest not to ruin his team’s cap structure. Then they’ll just have to deal away all of their other valuable players and he’ll, again, be the lone cowboy on a ranch of farmhands. It’s Grossman’s job to convince Kovalchuk to take a deal smart for him and his team.
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Rich, that’s a lot of work. Thank you for everthing
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i have an offer for kovi….. he can wash my truck for 2 slurpees… he wouldn’t have to do the interior… i will even let him choose the flavors…
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Thank you, but I have a question.
What if he decides to retire at age 35? Will he get the rest of the $$$? If he’s forced to retire (like injury), will the rest of the $$$ paid by insurance?
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Kevin Y Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:46 am
@zdfun,
What I think would happen is (and I could be wrong) the player gets the salary, but it won’t be on the cap hit.
I’m not sure, but it might be different with the 35+ rule. I know that it still affects the cap if you sign a contract if you’re 35+ years old on July 1, although not sure how retiring affects that.
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jammer06 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:59 am
@zdfun,
If he retires no money, if he’s injured it depends on the insurance terms written into the contract. For the most part, yes he would get his money in that case, and currently any replacement player would have to have a cap hit equal to or less than his cap hit for the league to allow us to deduct the injured players cap hit (or allow us over the cap).
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quisp Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:12 am
@zdfun,
If he retires he gets no more salary and the cap hit is completely off the books. That’s what many people think the whole point of the mega-term contract is: an implicit understanding that the player will retire and get a nice jersey retirement or something so the team won’t have a giant cap hit for another 5-7 years (and the player has already been paid most of his money, so he’s fine with that). That’s the theory anyway.
An injured player gets paid in full and his cap hit counts in full; however, the team is allowed to replace the injured player up to the amount of the injured player’s cap hit.
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Kingsfanone Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
@quisp,
Whoa, all those numbers and that math isn’t the only thing boggling my mind.
That’s precisely why I would have Quisp on hand as I hand HIM the papers to peruse for me! I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating, I think they should let Quisp do the numbers for them. I’ve seen him “in a candy store” and he doesn’t freak, just breaks out the slide rule, or whatever calculator that figures that stuff and asks what do you want to know!!
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What?
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Aren’t these front-loaded contracts things the league wants to do away with in the next CBA? How will they do it and can they make it retroactive somehow?
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TL said it isn’t about “cash, it’s about cap.” So, although Rich is correct above, what is even better than 6.5 over 13 years is 8 over 13 years, and what is even better than that is 8.5 over 13 years etc..
If we can afford the 8 mill cap hit and it isn’t about the cash, but rather the cap, then the Kings should be able to do make this work by stretching it out with an 8-8.5 hit.
Or was TL full of it with that public statement?
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Brian Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:43 am
@UpperV, Who says that we can afford the $8 million cap hit for 13 years. I don’t see how having $8 million of cap space tied up to a player when he is 35, 36, 37, 38, 39 and 40 is a good contract.
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Anonymous Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:47 am
@Brian, Like many on here, even after the math lesson, people are STILL confused on the difference between salary and cap hit.
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UpperV Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:00 am
@Brian,
1) He would likely retire or go to Russia before age 40.
2) Due to the unsustainable borrowing by our government and money printing by the Fed, I expect major inflation over the next decade and 8 mill will seem like peanuts in 10 years. It is like locking in a 30 year fixed rate mortgage at today’s rates.
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shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:46 am
@UpperV, I just remembered someone from the other post calling him, very appropriately, Tim Lie Weekly…and I def. agree with that…TL is full of it!
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They left town with nothing done /:
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Lebron is in Miami, The all-star game is over. whats the next excuse? Stienbusters funeral? R.I.P.
OMG this is the biggest bunch of crap.
Rich you are a great guy, But DL and TL are making you look more like the a Outsider not the insider they hired you for.
Please keep up the good work.
After 14 seasons first time I have ever waited on buying my tixs.
I will buy but AEG is mis-handling the whole PR issue.
Wheres Big Bruce Mcnall when you need him. for PR only !!
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Dan H. Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 10:49 am
@EST. 67,
Last I checked they didn’t invite Rich into the negotiations. If they’re keeping quiet to the press how is Rich supposed to magically come up with quotes?
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EST. 67 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
@Dan H., Dan, I could not agree with you more.”Quotes” In know way am I Knocking Rich. As said he is doing a good job. I feel that AEG is Is not giving Rich any info. I understand negotiations very well. You dont want to show your hand. But saying that, AEG can give info out that meetings are still going on or not. That does not effect who knows what behind closed doors. If you work it right you can actually help yourself (AEG). Read what I first wrote again and you might see that my Knock is with AEG not the Messenger, AKA Rich
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stagger Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
@Dan H.,
I think the question is why are they being so quiet? All we’ve really heard from the Kings org is that we’ve stopped negotiations twice. . . Only to find out that we stopped negotiating, as a negotiating ploy. Huh?
Then we hear he’s coming to town, and that’s it! Nothing on how it went while he was here? Really?
I’m sure DL/TL/whoever could be a little more up-front about what is going on without jeopardizing the talks.
Something like “We had a great time the past couple of days with Ilya and his agent. He really likes LA and we are trying to get something done.”
Is that so bad? It throws a bone to the fans yet doesn’t give any real facts away.
The whole “no comment” thing is getting old. Let’s keep an open, yet guarded dialogue so we as fans don’t feel so alienated during this whole process.
After all, when it really comes down to it WE ARE THE ONES PAYING HIS SALARY!
[Reply]
rockpile Reply:
July 16th, 2010 at 10:03 am
@stagger,
I hear “we are the ones paying his salary” quite often and unless your name is at the bottom right of the payroll check you are not in any way shape or form paying his salary. You are ticket purchaser and fan.
…#1 all this looks and sounds easy and simple..like all
those loans created by banks a few years ago resulting this banking mess and main reson of crises.
To understamd all this thing better,would be much better
to compare this numbers with those ,already signed by Ovechkin,Malkin
Crosby.. #2.How Pens can afford to have 2 players over 8.5 million and very good competetive cup contender team.Much the same in some other teams.
[Reply]
Actually, thinking about it a little more, they should do away with guaranteed contracts altogether. I don’t believe the NFL does guaranteed contracts and they seem to do okay.
[Reply]
jammer06 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:03 am
@deadcatbounce,
Its a big concession on the players part to give that up, the owners want a lower cap at the moment I don’t think they’ll go after this in the next CBA go round. Besides all it really would do is allow teams that want to spend to rewrite the buyout portion against the cap.
[Reply]
deadcatbounce Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:14 am
@jammer06, I agree with you that the players would probably never go for unguaranteed contracts and I couldn’t even think of a scenario in which they would, but this whole circumventing the cap thing is creating as many problems as the salary cap was supposed to have fixed. The cap floor is now higher than the ceiling was when it was first instituted and I find it hard to believe that the NHL is doing “that” good.
[Reply]
jammer06 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:41 am
@deadcatbounce,
Its not, the players voted the 5% inflation even though this past season they lost 5-10% in their escrow accounts as it was. Basically the real dollar cap is still something like 55 million, everyones pretending like that last 10% matters but its not real.
IK is wearing out his welcome even before he arrives. The fans are tired of this, Kings management wants an answer, I’m sure the King players are tired of this circus, the entire NHL want this resolved.
Come IK DO SOMETHING!!!
[Reply]
Did DL take him to Pinks?!?!?
[Reply]
chuckrocks Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
@KingKovi, yes, thats why he had to go home he got the sh%&s.
[Reply]
Rich, have you considered changing the name of the blog from LA Kings insider to something else because, no matter how many times you tell people, they still think that insider means that you have the info and when you don’t it’s the Kings who are playing mind games with you? Just a thought…
[Reply]
pure speculation on my part…:
but besides the supposed hypothetical payout scenarios that could be the major source of contention that RICH has outlined, maybe it’s just them wanting what they want (kovy & jay) regardless of what’s being proposed…
i think both sides are looking at the numbers…the same numbers…and the p.o.v. from kovy’s agent jay grossman is something like the following…:
“i know you want to spend only “x” amount on my client in order for you to keep who you want to keep in the future…but we firmly believe the extra investment with us will pay far more dividends in the long run than any of those players you are budgeting for when their contract’s expire…and if you don’t agree, louie is offering me a competitive deal that better accommodates our demands…”
in other words…”i know you only can pay this…but…c’mon…it’s us…!…it’s kovy…(wink, wink…nudge, nudge…)…you don’t need to pay so and so this amount…you can win without that player…you really need us to make everything work out because nobody can fit the role better for yr team than my client…”
dl has spent nearly 2 seasons…if not longer…studying, planning, plotting every possible scenario on this guy…dl must know more about kovy that any other free agent he’s ever had interest in…it would be against dl’s track record of being as thorough as possible before he makes any offer to any one…
which makes this whole thing even more mesmerizing…
here’s a gm that has done his homework…he and his staff have spent countless hours beforehand in preparation for this time…don’t you think that dl has mapped out every possible conceivable situation on how he can afford to sign this guy…?
i believe he has…
and i also believe that jay and kovy can only use the devils/khl as leverage to a certain point…and that’s simply because KOVY WANTS TO PLAY HERE…
if he didn’t really want to be here, why haven’t they both walked away for good…?
and at the same time…
why hasn’t dl closed the doors himself knowing quite well what he can afford…?
say what you want about lebron, d-wade and the bosher…but those three took less money in order to come together and win…
granted, the friendship dynamic is not apparent with kovy and the kings – he probably isn’t very close with many of the current roster (sans frolov)…
but doesn’t he want to go to the best team that not only can afford to pay him well, but has a better chance of winning immediately…?…isn’t the marty brodeur window closing real soon…?…don’t we have the better team outlook than the devils…?
so if it’s really the annual allotments per term they are disagreeing on, how CAN they agree…?
it’s funny…
two people who really, really want to be together…but are finding all the reasons why they can’t commit…
sounds like true love, no…?
[Reply]
Jeff in Vancouver, WA Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@variable, Wait a minute….You sound like DL. Are you DL? I agree with you variable 100%. DL and Kovi know endorsments will help with all but how they incorporate into the contract like you said either in a Crown Shirt or as Kovi alone. But just a few more t’s to cross and i’s to dot and he will be in LA. But I have to think Kovi is real close with his pen.
[Reply]
Meanwhile back at El Segundo, we still are short at least 2 LWs, 1 Vet D-man, & a Policeman. Liking the sounds of Sharp, Ryan, Kaberle and others more and more each day. The sounds of palpable bells tolling on the Kovy Watch,(“Fades of our Hockey Lives”) continue to be echoing in the distance, while the market dries up of options. Got to get up against the Cap to win. Better with 3-4 new names + young names renewing than just 1 new name and empty Cap Account! No news just regurgitations ad naseum! Do it or get off the pot!
[Reply]
“What’s a crop”
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chuckrocks Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:05 am
@Howe 9, its a really bad hair cut from the 80′s.
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Okay, so if it’s all about $$$, I would hope that Kovi is also smart enough to look at the bigger picture. What would his endorsement take be in NJ? How about in Mother Russia? Aah, I see. I’m sure he’s aware guys like Tiger and Roger F make about 10-20x more in endorsements than they do in their professions. If his wife wants to further her own career, what kind of contacts do you think there are in Jersey or Russia compared to here? If he’s smart, he’ll wake up and sign before he blows this opportunity for he and his family. If he is so short-sighted to think only of his SALARY, then he is a fool, and one we can surely do without.
Go Kings
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yobro Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@yobro, And it’s also a clear indictment of his agent as a short-sighted, small- thinking meathead.
[Reply]
I saw this and now I want him even more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM65eCv8T0c&feature=player_embedded#!
The one at 0:17 really hurts. Do we want him doing that with us or against us?
[Reply]
tommyking Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:23 am
@Who Knows?, awe, that did suck! i remember that clearly but totally forgot about it. Alright, I’ll pitch in $20 bucks for the ruskie
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tuan jim Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:38 am
@Who Knows?,
The one at 26 seconds in is even more impressive.
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danielking2024 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
@Who Knows?,
Wow that was a great hi-light reel. He cuts through D-men like their standing still. Makes the net minders look like they never even saw the shot. Skates with strength and power. I so pray he takes our offer.
[Reply]
King Cobra Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
@Who Knows?,
That video footage is SICK!! The guy is a monster, we need him on our team now……
Make it happen Kings!
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for the next 8 years the Washinton Capitals will be paying Alexander Ovechkin $76 M dollars, an average of $9.5 M per year. You know that Ilya wants to have the bragging rights as the highest paid Russian in the NHL…do you think the Kings can offer Ilya $77 M for the next 8 years ???
[Reply]
I see some people are mis-directing their anger at Rich for the contract dispute when he has nothing to do with it. Maybe these people are new to this blog or just started reading it two weeks ago? If not, did you forget about all of the other content that goes into this blog during the season and on a regular basis? Rich has to report facts, not rumors like other websites who need to stir up activity to generate readers (revenue). Keep in mind free agency lasts longer than two weeks.
[Reply]
launch Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:46 am
@Shutout,
I was thinkin the same exact thing. It’s crazy that people get on Rich. I too, respect Mr. Hammond for his honesty and integrity.
Thank you RH!!
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Well doesn’t seem like we’ll be getting any worthwhile info for another few days…
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so your saying theres a chance. j/k
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kingsouthbay Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:48 am
@chuckrocks, Classic! I like the Dumb and Dumber reference.
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There is no CAP SPACE issue to pay Kovi. Unless you think SIMMONDS/HANDZUS/STOLL are the keys to our STANLEY CUP FUTURE! What would we have to give up in a trade for Kovi? See some of the above. Same thing with this. Keep DOUGHTY/KOPI/JOHNSON/QUICK/BERNIER bring up SCHENN and there’s KOVI!
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Nouse sugarcoating it…AEG is cheap!!
Yes, they are, they were when they bought the team with NO SALARY CAP and they solidified that fact by pressing the league for the salary cap we have now.
YES TL it is about money…it’s always been about money. LALIVE is all about money, the world revolves around money it always has, we work for the money, everything costs money.
We invented the cap and still can’t circumvent it!
WE SUCK!
[Reply]
variable Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:21 am
@KOHO,
it’s good to know that “dl” and “tm” are now one person…:…”tl”…
i knew that was gonna happen…
[Reply]
variable Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:29 am
@variable,
i now realize you were referring to tim leiweke…
sorry…:)
[Reply]
KOHO Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:45 am
@variable,
I thought your comprehension skills would kick in after awhile! ; )
shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:25 am
@KOHO, I just have this cemented in my head: When they bought the team Leiweke said we are going to run this like a business (in other words, we want to make as much as possible or minimize losses)
It caused the Blake and Cami issues and is now the end of the Kovi issue…nuff said
We will always be a team of draft picks with the occasional average or less than average FA thrown in there (see Smyth, Williams, Scuderi)
So I guess unless we hit the big one in the draft, ala Crosby, we aint gonna ever see anything else from AEG…
[Reply]
can they bonus him and have it not hit the salary cap? if so, can’t they just make a bonus he’s sure to hit so he can get the numbers he’s looking for and we’d be safe under the cap? or maybe bonuses paid do hit the cap and in that case, tell me to go to hell with my lame idea.
[Reply]
54FIGHTING Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@tommyking,
No. Only ELC and over 35 can have bonuses.
[Reply]
A few other things to keep in mind about the contract and cap. There is endorsement deals that need to be worked out such as if a player is asked to endorse a product is he endorsing it as an NHL player or as a King? Can images be shown of him in a Kings uniform? The licensing rights need to be worked out ahead of time. Also, player appearances, promotions, off-season responsibilities, road accommodation, personal fitness, and about a thousand things more that most of us will ever be aware of. A contract of this caliber takes time – a lot of time. It is not just about salary.
Another thing to keep in mind is what if a player that is currently in the system or that will be drafted in the near future turns out to be a player such as Parise or another Doughty. Would you want to risk losing them because we can’t afford to sign them? I’m sure we can draft and develop a star within the next ten years. I’m not saying to bet on this but I wouldn’t want us to end up with Kovi and a supporting staff such as what he had in Atlanta. Other players that are or will be a King deserve to be paid their worth as well. If we don’t keep the reserve to pay them they can end up playing against us and that would be a true travesty.
If both sides can agree then it will happen. Until then the unknown and speculation is turning us against each other like in a bad movie. We all want the same thing – The best team the Kings can put on the ice. It is not our jobs to neither manage the salary cap nor negotiate contracts. If this does not work out then DL will try to get the next best thing. I’m just as inpatient as they all of you to get resolution on this but not at the expense of anything more than; lost sleep, lost production at work, anger management, panic attacks, frustration, ignoring family and friends and making everyone I know who doesn’t care about hockey sick and tired of hearing me complain about this stupid situation.
[Reply]
EASportsMgt Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
@redlights,
A lot of the things if not all of the things you mentioned above are actually covered in the CBA to protect the teams and the players. Plus have you ever heard a player or team say, yes we agreed on the 8million cap hit and salary but we just couldn’t find a fit in regards to the licensing and accomodating his personal fitness routine. Or we are ok with the 8 Million but not ok on giving him his own room while on the road. All teams have those kinds of policies in place, the CBA has a lot of those policies in place to prevent minor details like being the reason a deal can’t be reached. I believe those are the last of anyone’s worry.
What is takeing so long is the Kovi knows what he wants. And if he has to move from that then the Kings should also, and he doesn’t feel like they are. At least not yet.
[Reply]
quisp Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
@redlights,
none of those things — merchandising, promotions, licensing, etc. — can play a part in an SPC, since that would be a circumvention of the CBA. No compensation can be a part of an NHL contract other than salary and bonus. Period. They aren’t even allowed to talk about it, since talking about it can be construed as a ‘promise’ which in and of itself is a CBA violation.
the reason the contract is taking so long to negotiate is that they haven’t agreed on salary or term.
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“SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS” analogy:
OK, so I was just watching Spongebob to take my mind off this whole thing when it hit me…
This whole situation IS a Spongebob Squarepants episode:
You have the greedy Mr. Krabs (AEG) as the owner and he pays his employees, Spongebob and Squidward (the players) very little. But, the other fishies (the fans) keep coming to his restaurant (to Staples Center) to eat (to watch hockey) because they love it so much… and Mr. Krabs (AEG) makes lots of money. Now if Mr Krabs (AEG) goes out and spends money on a new fry cook (Kovi), he’ll have to pay him lots more than he pays Spngebob, and he would never do that!
TA-DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
[Reply]
KOHO Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 11:44 am
@shades,
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perfect!
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tcontreras Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
@shades,
Sadly,.i was watching this too.
420 at 11am makes doable…
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I want to dedicate this song to my friend Illya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz64hWng2vM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2US4iaPjag
lol watch this
[Reply]
King Cobra Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
@Tyler,
Good Stuff!
[Reply]
OK here’s how I see this. Kovy has 3 things important to him….Salary, Winning, Family. So let’s break this down.
Kings:
Pro-
Beautiful place to raise family (Manhattan beach maybe?) fairly safe as well for his small children.
Kings have much better pieces in place to make a run for the cup IMO.
Con- Less money
Devils:
Pro- More Money
Con- Living and raising his family with small children in New Jersey….not Ideal.
Less chance of winning cup.
Seems like a no brainer to me assuming the money is not his first and most important priority above his family.
[Reply]
jojo Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
@KovyKopiKozun,
Gee, I wonder why Marty Brodeur signed a discount contract so he could continue to raise his 4 kids (now 5) in NJ when it’s such a bad place to raise a family?
And did John Madden choose to build his permanent home there for him and his kids?
And why did Scott Stevens decide to remain in NJ to raise his family after he retired? It’s not like he wouldn’t have had opportunities elsewhere.
I hope he signs with kings, but you know nothing of NJ other than what you see on TV, I guess
[Reply]
Kovi is coming. If he wasn’t Dino would have said we can’t compromise. Right now they’re working out the details.
[Reply]
tcontreras Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
@Boom Boom,
This is how i feel about it…
[Reply]
Rich,
Do you know if Kovalchuk is still in LA? Also, do you know if any players or coaching staff have met with Kovalchuk?
[Reply]
What is interesting, and something I have been thinking about since someone asked about it a couple days ago, is how California’s 7 year rule (CA Labor Code Sec. 2855) would or could play into this both in the negotiation and consideration of the offers.
Hypothetically, Kovi signs a long term front-loaded deal (let’s say 13 years at $84.5, for argument’s sake) that pays him $8.5 or even $10 mil/year for those first 7 years. At the end of 7 years he’ll be around 34 years old, still not totally over the hill. Maybe then, with inflation and all, he believes he could get more money elsewhere. Theoretically, he could opt out of his contract and sign elsewhere at that point (or at any point thereafter). The Kings, on the other hand, would be bound to the contract as long as he keeps performing under it.
I am not sure if that particular law would be pre-empted by the collective bargaining agreement which doesn’t allow those kinds of opt-outs, but in other similar situations the courts have enforced the state law even where the collective bargaining agreement provided otherwise (you can’t waive certain types of state-created employee rights in a collective bargaining agreement).
Frankly, and I don’t know if his NY-based agent is thinking about this factor, to me that makes a CA team a much more desirable location. Even if he is locking himself in long term, it gives him a few options to get out of it a little ways down the line. He has both the security of a guaranteed salary for 13 years plus the flexibility to move on at any time after those first 7 years. (On the other hand, maybe AEG is contemplating that possibility and not front-loading the contract quite as much at it would otherwise.)
Oh, how I wish I could discuss this issue with Grossman… (yes, I’m a nerdy contracts lawyer).
[Reply]
jojo Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
@Danielle, I thought contracts were with the NHL, not the team. So would CA law apply.
[Reply]
Danielle Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
@jojo,
The collective bargaining agreement is between the league and the players’ association, but the players and clubs then negotiate their individual contracts as between themselves.
In this case, tho, since the services are primarily being rendered within CA, I suspect the CA courts would still find that CA law applies. That’s what is going on in the anti-doping case involving a couple of Minnesota Vikings players – 2 courts have now said that Minn law protects the players, despite what the collective bargaining agreement provides.
Oy, the ramifications if the contracts were with the league would be huge in so many ways beyond just labor relations.
[Reply]
For anyone having trouble understanding a front loaded contract, click the link below and take a look at Marian Hossa’s numbers. He is currently the highest paid player on the team, but his cap hit is only third. This year he makes $7.9m, but his cap hit is $5.223m because the later years of his contract are $1m and below.
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=CHI&season=1011&expand=y
[Reply]
I say sign or don’t, but get this over with or done already. Kings could be looking into other prospective players that could be traded for or whats left on the market.
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If Lombardi resigns all of next years restricted free-agents DOUGHTY, JOHNSON, and SIMMONDS…keeps the core guys together like KOPITAR, BROWN, WILLIAMS, and RICHARDSON…adds experienced veterans like SMYTH, HANZUS, and SCUDERI…bring up prospects like SCHENN, HICKEY, ETC…have a stong goalie tandem with QUICK, and BERNIER…and sign a superstar like KOVALCHUCK or GAGNE than the Kings are seriously looking at a stanley cup contending team within the next 2-3 years
[Reply]
i had a funny convo with my little nephew the other day thought id share;
Nephew: who is the kovy chuk guy mom keeps telling me about?
me: he is a great player who could help the kings
nephew: why doesnt he just play here for fun? i like to play hockey for fun
me: pro players get paid a lot of money to be good, and he is one of the best, but the kings and him cant agree on money
nephew: i have money in my piggy bank and i could sell lemonade to help pay for him, would that work? can you call him for me?
me: hahahaha i wish it were that simple….
[Reply]
I can’t imagine scrapping by on 13 million a year – how does he do that?? !!
And how does that contract impact a team player like Brownie making one-third of that with good numbers and wearing the “C” ??
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“because the salary cap is based on average salary, not on actual dollars paid per year.”
I was under the impression that both (average salary and actual salary each year) had be to under the cap.
Can anyone confirm if that is indeed not true ? If so, then it would be possible to have a team salary of say, $80 mill as long as the total avg. salaries are under the cap ?
[Reply]
PakiFro Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
@Clay,
Its just the cap hit that has to be lower. Chicago for example, was well over in terms of dollars, but still under in terms of cap hit (until Kane and Toewes hit their Stanley Cup Bonuses).
[Reply]
quisp Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
@Clay,
There is no cap for actual payroll. just averaged player salary (i.e. cap hit).
[Reply]
Well, looks like we’re heading to day 15…….16………17…………………….
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I don’t know why we aren’t trying to sign KOVI’s Son!!
he’ll be eligible to play before this is ever finalized, we’ll have him locked-up, and alot cheaper: maybe some Pamper’s and a autographed Lie-weekly crying towel.
[Reply]
Old Man Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
@D B COOPER,Funny, thanks for the laugh!
[Reply]
Can someone tell me if Rich ever responds to the comments? I see alot of people asking him questions but yet have seen a reply from him.. thanks anyways for your hard work Rich…
[Reply]
shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@Kingsn7, YES! I’ve seen him respond to several but I guess he has to pick and choose, though I don’t know his process!
[Reply]
King John Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
@Kingsn7,
See above at 9:54am. Rich responded to someone.
[Reply]
These are scary numbers, particularly during the last 3 years, as the Kings are looking to grandfather IK and make him what Mike Modano has been to the Stars the last 3 years: dead weight.
Combine those numbers with IK’s one-way hockey sense in a defensively responsible system, and I smell a money pit over the long term.
[Reply]
I don’t understand why we aren’t signing Kovi’s son. he’ll be eligible to play by the time this definetly over, and we can get him much cheaper. maybe some Pampers and an autograph Lie-weekly crying towel.
[Reply]
This is nit-picking, and I know that your example was hypothetical Rich, but even if Lombardi and Co. would do it (and we know they won’t) a $13M salary wouldn’t be allowed under the CBA. The most a player can earn is 20% of the salary cap figure in the year that he signs his contract. With the cap going up to $59.4M this season, the most Kovy could earn in any season of a new deal is $11.88M per season. If the cap figure goes down in subsequent years, the contract is still valid, and the players cap hit will not adjusted, even if it’s greater than 20% of the new cap number.
Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366
[Reply]
FINALLY!!!!!! It looks like its DONE!!!!!!!
Reports say they will agree this week. I dont think DL is done yet either. I bet he still tries for Gagne and/or Kaberle, or the like.
October can not come quick enough!
[Reply]
josh Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
@Brian in Corona, i hope your not using Eklund as your reference
[Reply]
Jonathan Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
@Brian in Corona,
You shouldn’t trust Eklund as far as you can throw him (and he’s a heavy boy).
Please learn to parse smart logical reporting from rumor solely intended to drum up site visits.
[Reply]
DougD Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
@Brian in Corona,
Explain yourself…
[Reply]
Kingszzz Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
@Brian in Corona, “Link”?
[Reply]
TB Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
@Brian in Corona,
Easy now…those reports are from a VERY UNRELIABLE source. Just sayin…this source you are referring to repeatedly has missed the mark with this negotiation, so I’m not ready to buy my Kovi jersey just yet…
[Reply]
brandyn Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
@TB,
eklund sucks
[Reply]
Brian in Corona Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@TB,
I hear ya… believe me… just trying the “positive thinking” route this time. Nothing else has worked!
[Reply]
Brian Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
@Brian in Corona, What source/link is this? I haven’t seen anything to suggest they are close.
Danielle Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@TB,
Exactly. Eklund tweeted it and gave it an (e4).
In other words, he’s signing in Russia.
[Reply]
TB Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
@Danielle,
Hahah E4!?!?! Look out…as soon as he posts an R2D2, or a P90X, we know its for real!
shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
@TB, Thanks for keeping this post “real”. It’s just a friggin ‘chum bucket’.
[Reply]
shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
@Brian in Corona, Please don’t do that! Who is saying it’s done? Can you provide link or a name, etc…?
[Reply]
Jonathan Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
@shades,
He is referring to a post that Eklund just made claiming a deal is almost finalized. At this point, it’s just as likely the deal is dead. Approach anything eklund says with GREAT trepidation.
[Reply]
John Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
@Jonathan,
How is it just as likely the deal is dead? Wouldn’t somebody come out and say as much???
Cynic Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
@Brian in Corona,
I love how you put something like this up and EVERBODY immediately says ‘Don’t believe Eklund’. You never mentioned Ek in your post, yet everyone who responded KNEW it was him.
How did they know?
Maybe it was because they were all checking themselves.
This is the irony of Eklund. You don;t believe hardly ANYTHING he says, but you always go to him for a glimmer of hope.
We are all such MASOCHISTS! LOL!
[Reply]
Brian in Corona Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
@Cynic,
lmao!
Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong. Bottom line is, this is WAY more entertaining than baseball!
[Reply]
TB Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
@Brian in Corona,
Yea, I admit, I follow his tweets for comic value. But the only two sources other than rich that I believe and Helene Elliott (although she tends to be a pessimist with the Kings, she stays accurate), and Pierre Lebrun. Between them and Rich, I get all the real info I need.
Captain Material Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Cynic,
Which is why when trying to deter people from that idiot, I tend not to go with “he sucks” and instead appeal to the person to find strength to avoid the guy outright. “Have some respect for yourself” seems most fitting.
[Reply]
EASportsMgt Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
@Brian in Corona,
For all of you who haven’t figured it out yet, Eklund gets paid by his advertisers. So when he psots BS liek always and you go to his site he gets paid by the amount of poeple visiting the site.
So he posts made up stuff, people click on his link and BAMMMM he gets paid. SO he gets paid to fill you with BS that is never true so stop going to him for news. It’s always false.
[Reply]
Thank you Rich.
I was told there would be no math on this exam, so thanks for taking care of that for me.
How about Maximum Afinogetitoff or Bobby Ryan to an offer sheet as backup???
I can hardly wait to hear what’s in store for the next week or two… or month… whenever… Take your time, I’m in no particular hurry.
[Reply]
Mendola Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
It’s Maxim Afinagiveaway…or Spazganov
[Reply]
I’m actually not looking forward to this being over…what am I going to do, work? How depressing!
[Reply]
After California income tax, federal income tax, property tax, and “smart grid” energy prices, Kovi gets raped either way.
[Reply]
Matt R Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968,
If I made $10m this year and got taxed $1m, I would cry myself to sleep every night on my mountain of money
[Reply]
Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
@Matt R,
Bro, I know he’ll be fine!!
I do believe though that his salary would put him in the 40-50 percent tax range. People who win millions in the lottery typically keep less than half of the value of the ticket because of taxes.
Are there any millionaires out there who would be willing to talk about their taxes?
[Reply]
fourtunato Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968,
We have to remember that AEG might be negotiating with Grossman and IK but they will be paying the State, Federal and local governments all most as much as IK.
If IK gets 100 million, after he pays his agent and all his taxes, including sales and property, he’ll be keeping less than half.
The governemnt will spread that money around to people like me who sit on the couch all day and vote for higer taxes for those who actually work.
Steve S. Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
This point is something that a lot of fans do not realize. California has the highest taxes in the country. Considering Federal and State Taxes professional athletes in California easily send half of their money away to the government. Also when you consider property tax, sales tax etc this figure is even higher.
State tax burden is similarly high in NY and NJ, so no advantage there either for IK.
Many folks get angry when they hear about athletes’ salaries. Remember that hockey players make only a fraction of baseball, NFL and most NBA players make. Considering they have a relatively short career and the high taxes they have to pay, we should be more empathetic. What they keep from these big contracts is only a fraction, and playing careers are not that long. What they make now will probably have to last a lifetime, and will be devalued with inflation…
[Reply]
Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
@Steve S.,
Yes, this is why the issue of New York taxes was in the news with the Lebron James situation; and you know how much he makes.
I look at it from a poor teachers perspective. When I was in LA, I paid about 1/4 in taxes. So a new teacher who has a 40K contract for ten months really only gets slightly less than 30k
We all know the “evil rich” do not pay their “fair share.” I just never thought I would be in the “evil rich” category (let’s not get started on politics!).
And you are also right, we should keep this in mind when looking at the salalry schedule. The number in the sked is drastically higher than what the player actually takes home.
I do realize however, they still make a lot more than most of us!
[Reply]
jet Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968, okay without any deductions.
8,000,000 sal
800,000 hockey escrow giveback
7,200,000 real salary
7,200,000
400,000 agent fee
720,000 state tax
2,300,000 federal tax
3,780,000 take home
Next year the fed rate is going up and the state rate is likely to increase. So decrease this by another $500,000. Therefore out of the 8M he will take home 3.3M.
these are only approximations, please consult your tax professional before signing a contract for 8M/year.
Matt R Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@Steve S,
More empathetic to someone making millions for playing a game? I don’t think you could ever convince me to be more empathetic. I am, by no means, angry that they make so much money. I’m certainly not going to feel bad for them that they have to pay such high taxes.
Hypothetical:
I make $50k and pay %50 taxes, I’m left with $25k. Ouch. Not much to live on.
Kovi makes $10m and pays %50 taxes. He’s left with $5m. That poor guy. He’s still got more money in that one year than I’ll make in my entire life.
So no, I’m not going to be empathetic that he might have to deal with high California taxes cause guess what? I live in California too.
[Reply]
fourtunato Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
@Matt R,
The point isnt that he still has lots of money. The point is that if he was able to keep more of it, he’d be SPENDING IT ON THINGS. Like cars and maids and dishes and fishing trips and sewing machines. He’d spend it way better than the idiots in Washington are spending it.
[Reply]
I have a question that I don’t see asked here. (if it is, sorry. I looked.) In the NFL the contracts are not guaranteed, but the signing bonus is so long as the player meets their commitments, i.e. doesn’t hold out, etc. So if an NFL player the second game of a five year deal gets a career ending injury, he get’s his signing bonus, but only a small portion of the remaining salary.
How does it work in hockey. Let’s say in game 2 of a 10 year, $100 million contract a player suffers a career ending injury, what does the team owe the player and what is the cap hit.
That would have alot to do with the excessive lengths of contracts….see DiPietro!
[Reply]
deadcatbounce Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
@Snoochie Boochie, I addressed this higher up in the thread. NHL salaries are guaranteed, good for the players, not for the teams. If you get hurt during the second game of a 100-year contract the team is on the hook to pay your salary, although with longer contracts more teams are resorting to insurance.
[Reply]
PakiFro Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
@deadcatbounce,
about insurance — I recall reading and article back when Eric Staal and Anze Kopitar signed their 7 year extensions that the insurance policies wouldn’t cover contracts beyond 7 years, hence why those two were for 7 years. Things may have changed by now, but here’s a link talking about the 7 year term and coincidentally uses Justin Williams as an example.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/123913
[Reply]
Cry Baby Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
@PakiFro, Those salaries for injured players would not count against he cap…
PakiFro Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
@Cry Baby,
You’re right — I was addressing the insurance comment.
Snoochie Boochie Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
@Snoochie Boochie,
Sooooooo, it sounds like the team pays the injured player, but that payment doesn’t count against the cap, is that right.
[Reply]
My eyeballs hurt from staring at my pc waiting for the next update. I can’t take much more of this.
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Snoop Dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
@FUKIFUJI, Eyes wide shut my friend.
Live free die hard.
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FUKIFUJI Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
@Snoop Dogg, In Snoop We Trust.
[Reply]
Snoop Dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
@FUKIFUJI, Fuki, you know where I can get a SNUGGY?
I just caught my second wind…I think I can hold thru August 1…
[Reply]
kovalchuk just signed with the miami heat
[Reply]
Ciccarelli Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
@kopistar, That wasn’t funny past, what, last Thursday night? But some people must get their yuks from it still, b/c That’s the second time I’ve seen it today.
[Reply]
Eklund says its done so you know its true coming from him. He said Kovi will be coming back to Aspen California on Santas sleigh and they will be followed in flight by the Salmon of Capistrano and they are picking up the tooth fairy from chicago(she was there for Dunkan Keith) on the way out. its true man, thats an E10.
[Reply]
Traded for a Pick Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
@chuckrocks,
That’s good news considering the Ducks just signed bigfoot (e5)
[Reply]
David Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
@Traded for a Pick, This blog will crash when Kovi signs. (e5)
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I guess each side is just waiting for the other side to cave in… I have a feeling a deal will get done somewhere around 90 mil for 13 years. But training camp is over 2 months away so this could be a while.
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Hey, I just remembered! I actualy have a life. I’m going to stop thinking about this and go live it. Maybe sometime around October 2 I’ll check back and see how it all shook out. (If it’s over by then).
For now, I’m going back to the couch and watch TV all day like usual. To heck with all this.
[Reply]
TB Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
@fourtunato,
Bahahahah! “I have a life..” and “I’m going to the couch and watch TV all day like usual” were said in the same comment…
LOVE IT! AHAHAHAHA!
[Reply]
Really i think we should all be done with this stupid mess, isnt there more important things to do? Like work on securing the great talent we have?
[Reply]
Hey Rich,
Once Kovi gate is done you should get a Deano interview ASAP. You know, how it went down, what went right/wrong, how he feels about it. Also what’s he looking for next.
[Reply]
snoop dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
@Tookie, don’t think you need to tell rich how to do his job. maybe you should sent a tweet to deano yourself tookie.
[Reply]
Tookie Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
@snoop dogg,
SNOOP…snoop-a-loop!
It was more of a suggestion than a command…but whatever. I don’t twit, tweet, twot…yeah, that twitter thing.
Maybe you’re grumpy ’cause you need a sandwich, let me buy you one. Come-on and bring your green hat!
[Reply]
Snoop Dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
@Tookie, Snoop don’t eat no sandwich.
you can buy me some chicken and waffles foolio.
This is beyond stupid. Its like to first grade kids wanting the same thing but cant agree and either one will not gie in. The majority of people including sports writers say KOVI wants to come to LA. The majority of people including sports writers say DL and the kings management want KOVI to come to LA. So why dont the two sides quit acting like babies and sit down and agree on a contract. If you dont want to then say its over quit BSing the fans and go on. The Kings are I believe the only team that has not done a dam thing to better its self for the 2010 season and it is now July 14. What a joke this is. Both sides need to grow up and make a decision one way or the other.
[Reply]
Just hurry up and sign Frolov…
[Reply]
tommyking Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
@Joe Chuck, I disagree on Fro. He’s too spotty and he always has a smug grin on his face like he doesn’t give a crap. I would not be sad if he went elsewhere. I’m just sayin. Yeah, he has his moments but they’re not consistent and with our young team we need some consistency.
[Reply]
kyle Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
@tommyking, it’s not a smug grin. hard as it may be to believe, it’s a real smile. talk to him and you’ll see the guy is simply happiest when he’s on skates. as for the “doesn’t give a crap” line, you cannot get to this level if you don’t give a crap. try training with him for an hour. then critique.
[Reply]
Can’t Dean just update through the day letting us know what is going on? He needs to get a Twitter account. All the rumors from all the “experts” is starting to get really annoying.
[Reply]
Mike L Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
@KOKOBRO,
GM’s will never do that. Its not their job to do that. There trying to keep this as private as possible in terms of numbers and such
[Reply]
Just hurry up and sign Ron Duguay.
[Reply]
Snoop Dogg Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
@FUKIFUJI, Kopitar for Ron Duguay. Pull the Trigga DL!!
IK couldn’t hold Duguay’s jock.
[Reply]
Nitrohockey Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
@FUKIFUJI, We could afford Dugay, but the seperate contract needed for his hair would put us over the cap!
[Reply]
Here’s another interesting take for opponents of this Kovi deal…. there is some logic here!
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/34495-THNcom-Blog-Kings-dont-need-Kovalchuk-to-make-a-Stanley-Cup-run.html
But I still want him. Why not, we’re only the oldest team in the league without a cup. What’s $100 mil amongst friends?
[Reply]
come on rich its summer who wants to do math.
[Reply]
@tommyking,
Don’t forget about Vancouver, we came in at the same time I think.
[Reply]
MtlKingsFan Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@Tookie,
We were in the leaugue in 67 and I think the nucks came in 71 or 72
[Reply]
tommyking Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@Tookie, nay, tookie. Kings in since 67. Vancouver 1970.
[Reply]
Traded for a Pick Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
@Tookie,
LA and St. Louis. 40+ years and no cup between em
[Reply]
This just in from NHL.COM:
ISLANDERS TO ADD CUPCAKES TO MENU
YES, seriously…f’ng cupcakes for the Isles and we get a pie in the face from Soupy Sales!
[Reply]
Keeper Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
@shades, CUPCAKES?! ARE YOU SERIOUS?! How come Staples Center doesn’t have cupcakes. Damn cheap AEG!!!!
[Reply]
shades Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:59 pm
@Keeper, Exxxxxxxxxxxcelent!
[Reply]
Rich,
I see your logic, and wouldn’t argue how closely it fits reality so much as how closely it would fit the conception of reality a star player would have from their POV. They are going to feel that at 34 they are going to be just as good as at 27 for the most part. The mentality of being the best has a lot of ego to it. Being good requires being confident in your ability for most players and they tend to have plenty of confidence (or over confidence) in themselves.
With these numbers for the “Team A” offer, the four years between 36 and 39, the guy is getting $3M per. Selanne got a two year deal at $2.6M per at age 39 (and probably could have gotten more outside Anaheim), and we’re talking here about a guy accepting that $3M per three years younger than Selanne at that point. Granted, most players aren’t going to continue to be productive at the rate a guy like Selanne is at that age, but that’s me conceding that. You think a star player is going to concede that based on his own confidence in his own star abilities?
Slava Kozlov signed a three year deal at 36 for $3.67M. The guy broke 30 goals (not 50) twice in his career. Rod Brind’Amour signed a five year deal at age 36 for $3.6M. Ray Whitney signed a three year deal at age 36 for $3.55M. Robert Lang signed a two year deal at age 37 for $4M. Alex Kovalev signed a two year deal at age 37 for $5M. Bill Guerin signed a two year deal at age 37 for $4.5M. Keith Tkachuk signed a two year deal at age 36 for $4M. Doug Weight signed a two year deal at age 35 for $3.5M, and then a single year at age 37 for another $3.5M. Mats Sundin signed a single year at age 37 for $5.5M, and then again for a single year at age 38 for $8.6M.
Again, I want to stress that I’m not arguing that your logic in itself departs from reality, but I find it hard to buy that a confident star player and his agent could be convinced that there is an advantage for them in the last four years of that “Team A” offer when there are so many recent examples of players that this guy would naturally see as comparables out there.
Also, I’m not going to argue that those deals I mentioned were good ones for the teams that made them, nor that the examples aren’t cherry-picked, but I did stick to forwards only in my little bit of quick research. These aren’t what I would call reasonable or good contracts in each case; I’m just trying to get a feel for what information is out there that a player might look to for comparison. I think guys like Kozlov and Kovalev are very reasonable choices for players a guy like Kovalchuk might look to.
It just seems a rather hard sell to try and convince a player (and agent) that the long term deal has advantages to anyone but the team offering it and the effect on their cap number. The player is almost certainly going to feel there is more money out there for him at age 36-39 than $3M per based on recent examples and based on his own confidence in his abilities.
And to address the reality of the cap decreasing, I honestly don’t think that makes much difference in negotiations here. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable than me on CBA issues can quickly correct me if I’m wrong, but I have to believe if the league is looking at cutting the cap by 15-16%, they would have to adjust current contracts down proportionally. Asking teams to just cut $9M from their payrolls overnight isn’t reasonable or realistic unless you want to see Crosby playing in the minors.
The PA and league tend to favor their star players (they still get the big bucks while the cuts and belt tightening is left to the lower tier talent), and there is already an issue with being able to run teams and move big names because of cap constraints. There are only two suitors for one top UFA this year because of cap issues, and the KHL is an additional option. I highly doubt the league wants to see that many more top talents forced to examine the KHL as a reasonable option because there are even fewer NHL teams that can afford them after a 15-16% cap cut with no current contract salary adjustment.
I have to say I am really surprised by this blog post, because it almost seems like advocacy for the long term low cap contract instead of just reporting on the team’s POV of the deal. I don’t see any issues with your logic behind it being advantageous for a player as far as reality is concerned, but I do think selling those advantages to a star player and his agent might be difficult because they are going to see it differently based on their own belief in the player’s inherent exceptionalism and based on the history of contracts given to star players of that age (for good or bad for the team that made the deal). That part might not be realistic.
[Reply]
sstephen17 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
@Captain Material, For me, I didn’t see Rich’s post being an advocate for a specific type of contract. If you read many of the posts since July 1st, there are a lot of people who are confusing a lot of the salary cap jargon. Some fans thought the average yearly salary of the contract is the same as the yearly cap hit. This post helps clarify some of the confusion.
[Reply]
USHA#17 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
@sstephen17,
The cap hit is clear, its one to the head with a hockey stick.
When the stars (and head) clear you are in the end correct, this appears designed to explain the mechanics.
I once spent 10 years watching a 50 goal scorer play on a losing team. Unless there is room to build a team around this guy, move on.
[Reply]
Captain Material Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@sstephen17,
Yeah, maybe I read a little advocacy into it because at the end he goes the “does it make sense?” route and talks about what kind of contract a player expects in the last four years, and history seems to clearly point to bigger contracts (than $3M per) obviously being out there. Climate may have changed, but that seemed obvious to me.
Kind of like comparing the rumored deals to Hossa when Hossa is older at the end of the deal. I don’t confuse average/cap hit with current salary, but when the cap hit for this guy is a couple million less than what he deserves currently in his prime, I kind of think we better be talking about a 15-20 year deal, because at the end of 10 years he isn’t that old to think the number decreases drastically.
I assume that this is just typo, but,
“Some fans thought the average yearly salary of the contract is the same as the yearly cap hit.”
isn’t that actually correct? Average yearly salary over the term is the cap hit. Yeah?
[Reply]
sstephen17 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
@Captain Material, Sorry, I seem to be confusing it more, I think the confusion is when the cap hit (which is the average yearly salary including bonuses if I’m not mistaken) is interchanged with how much money he makes per year, specifically at the front end of the contract. For instance, he could be paid $8 mil per year for the first five years of the contract and $2 million per year for the last five years. His average salary (the cap hit) would be $5 mil per year. Then some fans would think we are low-balling him at $5 mil per year when that actually isn’t the case.
Bingram Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
@Captain Material, Would the possibility injury over the long-term change your thinking?
Captain Material Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
@Bingram,
Not sure what you mean. I think the long term deal does have advantages for the player, I just don’t think the player is going to see it that way. He’s going to want a deal based on him being healthy and the best he thinks he can be for as long as he thinks he can play. Reality says, he could be injured, his production could decline rapidly with age even before he’s 40 (certainly seems that is especially the case for scoring), there may not be a market when he gets down the road…
But I don’t think a player and his agent are going to bargain from those positions. That makes the specific “Team A” deal, with identical salaries to the “Team B” deal except the final four years tacked onto the end of the “Team A” deal to bring cap down, less advantageous for the player. At least that’s my thought.
The player won’t plan for, “I should take less because the chance for injury is greater over the long term”, certainly.
I kind of wonder why the talk hasn’t moved to shorter terms (3-5 years) based on everything. Maybe it has and we don’t know, but seem like the long term deals just inflate any gap between team and player and make a deal that much more difficult.
[Reply]
EternalOptimist Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@Captain Material,
Good points… is there an option in the CBA for players to opt out of contracts? Something like that could work here if IK thinks that he is worth more than his current salary in the later years of the contract.
[Reply]
blah blah blah blah blah
I cant stop refreshing this page
I cant stop reading the insane rumors from EK
I cant stop reading the contradictory rumors from Mathew
I cant have my life back
I cant work
I CANT TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!!
[Reply]
rio Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@Stillkingly, I agree!!!
[Reply]
This just in, Islanders have traded one of Matt Moulson’s eyebrows to the Ducks to cover Getzlafs balding head.
[Reply]
KingsFan in OC Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
@chuckrocks, Do you think Getzlaf is really jealous of George Parros and his long, flowing locks?
[Reply]
chuckrocks Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
@KingsFan in OC, one has talant and the other has a full head of hair…its a toss up.
[Reply]
I wouldn’t mind having Lee Stempniak. If he plays the whole season like he did the 2nd half last year, that would be awesome.
[Reply]
I agree, once Ilya gets his millions I am sending him a bill for time lost. Good God man, give us our lives back, make a freakin’ decision!
[Reply]
The longer this draws out, the less in favor I am of signing Kovalchuk. For two reasons, one being the enormous amout of drama this is provoking. Secondly, the enormous amount of money it is going to take to convince him to sign.
This drama has gone on long enough and I believe that if he does come to LA, it will not have the greatest of outcomes. He seems to be commanding alot of special treatment, and I don’t think that makes for a good lockeroom, team guy. The chemistry that the Kings have is good, and while talent does win games, character and chemistry lifts cups.
The money involved here could negatively affect the organization for years. Remember Cloutier. Alot to risk if Kovalchuk decides at somepoint he is not liking the Murray system. Then what would you do? The Kings would be stuck with a large contract, regardless of all the fuzzy math.
I am beginning to think this is a real bad idea, as the drama continues and the dust is settling.
[Reply]
Krusher Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
@The Kinger, It feels like that now, because we have nothing else to focus on. The fact is once October rolls around and you jump to your feet as Kovy scores his first goal on his first shift, you will be in love with the guy. Sorry, but we are all fickle, myself included.
[Reply]
tommyking Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
@The Kinger, Ya know, we’re the ones making the drama and sitting around our computers drooling over the possibilities and having hissy fits cuz we don’t have an answer yet. This is a huge deal for all parties involved and I don’t think the drama in our heads is going to speed things up. Remember the Rob Blake debacle? You say the drama continues and as the dust is settling. What dust is settling?
[Reply]
Naturallawyer Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
@The Kinger, if it was a good idea two weeks ago, it’s a good idea today. This is about putting the best team on the ice. The locker room is strong enough to withstand a greedy 50-goal scorer. We have enough character role players. The Kings are a contender this year with Kovy.
If you were told before July 1 that the Kings would sign Kovy but it would take a month of tough negotiations, I think you and almost everyone else here would’ve been ok with that.
[Reply]
mrbob25 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
@Naturallawyer,
Nice work here.
[Reply]
Andrew Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
@The Kinger, I actually disagree with you. I think the longer this drags on the more strain there is on Kovi to lower his asking price. The Kings are in a good position as a team (yes I know we need to go get a piece or two). The alternative for Kovi is not to get picked up. Eventually all the teams involved will choose to just move on. The sooner NYI and NJD do that the more pressure DL can apply to Kovi to lower this price. “Hey Kovi, its us or no one”. I think this will come to a head in the next 48 hours and then all of us Kings fans will be rejoicing!!
[Reply]
Naturallawyer Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
@Andrew, I’d give it 48 days at this point.
[Reply]
Traded for a Pick Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
@The Kinger,
Dan Cloutier should of never been considered for the team. Period.
No talent+Much money=WHY?
[Reply]
KOHO Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
As a King Lombardi has a history of overpaying FA trash to lucrative deals and Grossman is holding that over his head. As well he should be. I’m sure Grossman has a list of odd ball numbers that read fail all over them.
Now DL has the most talented FA in his tenure wanting to play here and he doesn’t have a number to fit.
It’s like dating ugly women all his life and now he’s got a supermodel interested in him and he can’t seal the deal.
[Reply]
Newf Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
@KOHO, I would prefer DL have trouble ‘sealing the deal’ than ‘premature negotiations’ if you know what i mean.
let them take as much time as it needs to get the right deal done.
dahack11 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
@The Kinger,
I agree w/ you Kinger. Also, has anyone else thought that b/c IK is NOT going to get what he…..THINKS….. he deserves, or even close to it (10 mil per), that he’s going to be one unhappy camper wherever he ends up???
We could very likely be stuck w/ one unhappy camper (infecting the whole team) for a very long time.
At this point, if I was Lombardi, I’d completely pull my offer off the table & tell him, “seeya.” I really would. Don’t forget, some the best deals ever made are the ones you walk away from.
Pass.
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Rockfx Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
@The Kinger,
Ok,I’ve watched this board long enough, with the back and forth of this whole thing, and here’s my view on the above statement: Unless anybody here actually KNOWS IK who are we to say what his DEMANDS really are? We only know that he’s seeking 100mil, which I think is his agent talking. Look at it from his point of view…1) Very talented 1st line point producer (that can impact ANY team given the right supporting cast) who’s high in demand. 2) Looking out for his future which, without a long term deal, could be bleak once the cap is reduced, and 3) Team unity, strength, and long term success ability, not past successes, but what the future could bring. Our goalies aren’t going anywhere, where as Brodeur is at the tail end of his career. Plus for us. Our D is solid, yeah we could use a piece or two, but just look at our futures…we are solid for a while..another plus for us. Our talented front lines speak for themselves. Yeah Williams needs to prove himself this year and Smyth is good for experience and leadership, but again our young guys are the most promising in team history. PERIOD!! Plus for us!! IK knows that HE ALONE cannot win the cup, so he’s looking for all these things to be in place. I really don’t think he would effect the chemistry in any negative way. That’s just what we read into it. Face it, we’re avid (some rabid) KINGS FANS who want the best (cup), NOW!! IMO if he didnt have an agent whispering dollar amounts in his ear he would have signed, either with us or somewhere else 2 weeks ago. As a loyal long term Kings fan I can deal with the current team with or without him. Do I want him here…Absolutely. Would it be detrimental if he signed elsewhere..NOPE! This is the most exciting time to be Kings fan. Let’s not forget where this team is headed. Last year was only a taste!!
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Damn nothing new yet?
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Totally off topic, but I just read on Facebook that Lucky Luc will be on Mark and Brian tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m.
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dana Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
@Nick, Do you think they could get luckybutt back in action, that would seel the deal for sure!!
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Nick Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
@dana, Oh yeah, the lucky butt was classic, and seemed to have some mysterious qualities too. I think Mark and Brian need to pull the lucky butt out of retirement right about now.
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Hey Rich, are you ever going to share your thoughts on this whole situation or are you required by the Kings organization to be as quiet about it as possible?
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Wow it’s been two weeks already?.When I left Las Wages on the 2nd to go to Cali,I didn’t think it would take this long,but with winter like conditions and no waves this site kept me going,thanks everybody and thank you Rich.As I figured the waves and sun came up and I’m back in LV boiling,but air_condition and this site will keep me sane(I hope).Look alot of points have been brought up about this debacle and I think it will get done (hopefully with IK onboard)and if not I’ll take my surfboard out in the desert and catch some sand waves,sorry the heat is getting to me.
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Hey did anyone here That Jay Grossman never left as first reported… That supposedly he stayed behind to work on the numbers with Dean Lombardi ? Anyone buy it ? And supposedly its almost a done deal !! Someone pls drop an ACME anvil on my head pleeeeeeeeese !
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LVKINGS88 Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
@King Wok, (MMEEP,MMEEP)
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Andrew Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
@King Wok, where did you hear this?
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Why are some of us critisizing Kovi because he hasn’t signed yet? I’m with all of you and wanted him to sign July 1, but this isn’t as easy a decision that we would all like to think…Besides, if Kovi ends up signing with the Kings in September, I’m sure we will all love him just the same!
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KingsFan in OC Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
@AG, If this stretches out until September, most of us here will probably have to be committed for some serious mental and psychological problems.
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AG Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
@KingsFan in OC, But you know what I mean. I think we would all prefer him sign in September, rather than not at all. It’s sorta like waiting for sex for the first time. LOL
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Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
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That’s it! I can’t take it anymore!!!
REFRESH – Nuthin’
REFRESH – Nuthin’
REFRESH – FREAKIN’ NUTHIN’!!!
“Screw you guys, I’m goin’ home!”
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Danielle Reply:
July 14th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@KingsFan in OC,
Just don’t kill Kenny on your way…
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No offense to Rich but you know what his update in a hour or two is going to say: “STILL nothing new to report…”
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Moving on…..
What are our options on D? We lost 2 starters in Jones and O’donnel. Mitchell looks like a good option but the concussion worries me, Sutton was brought up in other threads as an option but I read that he has mobility issues. At the same time we have 2-3 defensemen in the system who could be starters next year in Drewiskie, Voynov, and apparently Muzzin. I think we need to get one Vet Defensemen who would be slated as a starter but could ride in the press box if the young kid(s) are ready. So who do you guys think is our best bet, I am not considering trades here because that could be just about anyone. Kabarle in my opinion is a non option, the price would be too high and we already have a good starting 4 with JJ, DD, RS, and MG.
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One of the things that keeps bugging me about the “Possible” shrinking of the cap is so what? What I mean is that it will effect all… What do we keep 7 million below the cap to be extra insurance policy? All Stamley Cup caliber teams will have issues if the cap goes down…. But fears that it is going to drop to the mid 40 millions? I find it hard to believe that when the player finally get Donald Fehr as their PA that they are going to let it get slashed that much. Teams will always look for new and creative way to get around the cap… Front loaded, extended year contracts are the most popular way now but new ideas will come. An interesting comment by EASportsMgt about Grossman selling the fact of assets will have to be given up even with free agents sometimes just like a trade… We do have a nice core of youth with a few elite players like Kopi and DD. Bernier is yet to be determined on he “Status” as a elite player yet. Wayne is a great, hardworking player but I do not believe at this time he will ever be a 35-40 goal scorer along the lines of a Ryan Smyth in his prime but he will be a player of lets say a Darcy Tucker quality….. Not a bad thing if you can get Kovy and replace WS with Clifford perhaps in a year if cap issues change severly would you take the risk? A player of Kovy quality is much harder to find than a player of Waynes quality….We were offering some talent, never truly revealed when we tried to trade for Kovy at the deadline… If we juggle a little the next two years it is no different… I would expect a trade or two after a few month if Kovy signs if not right after he signs.. And then what is the cap status? The point I am trying to make is that we are being spooned feed that if we sign Kovy for the 7.5 to 8.5 mil level it is armagedon and DD, JMFJ, WS, and others will be lost… But things and life in general is not as simple as a chart or box or whatever. A player could slip and fall, tear a ACL and all of a sudden you are screwed. The old saying is the only two sure things are “Death and Taxes” Everything else is up to the mystery of life….I understand value, and budgets but you can run a business on what if’s! And that is what is bugging me know.. There is risk in everything… I don’t support paying 10 mil but I still feel we are bargin shopping at a Bentley dealership for a Lexus price….. Thats a tough sell any way you look at it.
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I am old enough to remember when Jack Kent Cooke traded Terry Harper and Danny Maloney (the best enforcer the Kings ever had) plus other considerations for Marcel Dionne. It gutted the best TEAM the Kings had. They never were the same and have had mixed playoff success since then.
This has to be about THE TEAM, NOT THE STAR. If they can get IK for DL’s price, they should go for it. If not, try plan B. If IK puts himself above the team, they don’t need him. He’ll be a cancer in the room.
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I say tell him to take a hike.
Homegrown is alright with me,
Homegrown is the way it should be
(Neil young)
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To Ilya or Not to Ilya ….. ??
Is it time to bring in that German Octopus?
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Rich,
Thanks for the “hypothetical” breakdown. He’s not worth 13.5 during his prime, with the result being the kings look like the thrashers with a much older kovy.
DL should have told him to cut his expectations and improve his quality of life in LA. 56 degrees is as cold as it gets here, beautiful women everywhere, and a house on the beach. Only the Panthers can match those living conditions.
Best of luck in -40 degrees kovy.
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