The next part of the Dean Lombardi interview focuses on the future. How can the Kings get better next season? How much of the improvement will have to be done internally, and does Lombardi believe that he will have to be active on the trade and/or free-agent markets this summer? In this part, Lombardi talks about the potential his young players, the issue of Drew Doughty’s contract extension and his thoughts about adding players to the organization…
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Question: At this time last year, we talked about the possibility of you adding pieces to the team, and you said that, by far, the most important thing was for the young players to improve. As we sit here a year later, would you have the same answer going into this summer?
LOMBARDI: “You can start seeing the core of this team develop, and yes, I would say that is still the key. Because none of them, to me, have reached their potential. When they left, I told them that it starts right now. No question they took a step, a large step, and there are things that show up when your best players have to lead in all categories. Like Kopitar and Doughty, for instance. They raised their conditioning from awful, dead last, to average. So take those two guys, for instance, who are obviously key guys. Quick, you could probably throw him in there, too. Jack has always been pretty good about it. But using those two as an example of the core starting to develop, they have to now raise that to being at the top of the chart. And I think it was reflected in their play. Kopi, he used to look really tired at times. You didn’t see it as much this year, and a huge part was that he showed up in average condition. His scores this year were at least average. Same with Drew. Drew came from being 30 pounds overweight in junior, to losing the weight to putting it back on. He’s just beginning to learn to train. He came in a little below average. So I’m expecting those guys, when they come back in September, to start getting to the top of that list. That’s leading by example, not only maximizing your abilities but also showing that, `Follow me.’ If we’re going to be a contender, our best players have to be at the top in all of these categories. So there’s no question that that still holds.
“But, just like last year, that didn’t stop us from going and getting two pieces. I think it’s similar this year. If they were maxed out on their potential, if they were 27 years and basically they were in their primes, then they would either be maintaining or going backward, and our focus would have to be, `OK, we’ve got to change this mix.’ But when you’re at this stage — and I’ll probably say the same thing next year — they’re nowhere near their potential. But there’s too many times with these kids, whether it’s too much money or getting lazy or complacent or bad environment, they peter out, and that’s it. That’s not good enough. So like I say, as good as Kopi is, he’s got to raise himself to that Datsyuk level. Same with Drew, in his own way. He’s still not Lidstrom yet. But those guys have the potential. Same with Simmonds. `OK, you got some time on the first line, but you’re a long way from Brenden Morrow.’ So yeah, I’m going to stick by that, knowing, like I said, that it doesn’t stop us from doing other things. And I’ll answer your question next year the same, until they reach their maximum potential.”
Question: Looking at things that you might want to do this summer, roster-wise, does Doughty’s contract extension hang over your head? Is there any thought that you need to get that done first, to see what you’re going to be working with, cap-wise?
LOMBARDI: “Well, I don’t think that’s practical, but it does hang over your head. Washington kind of went through this a little with Backstrom. I called George (McPhee, Washington’s GM) before Backstrom was done. Obviously they’re putting together a core there in Washington, and I said, `Take me through the whole thing.’ Because they tried to sign him right away. It’s two things, like he was saying. It’s trying to get the contract done, but it was also knowing what you were going to have to pay, so you could go get other pieces. So, in talking to him about the whole thing — and we talked for a couple hours, because I wanted to know the whole scenario, and, `If you had this to do different, would you have done this different’ — it’s really hard, like he was saying, and obviously it didn’t get done until the end. So when you ask about it hanging over me, it hangs over you in a different sense. Because you’re not going to lose him. The difference between `hang over me’ because he’s a year from free agency is very different from `hang over me’ because, even though he’s a guy we intend to have here a long time, I don’t know what else I can get until I know what his number is. So that’s where it hangs over you. As a practical matter, we’ve had very preliminary discussions, but it’s awful hard to think we’re going to get this thing done here, ideally, before July 1 so that you know. I just don’t think it’s practical. I wish it was.”
Question: So how do you go forward then, in terms of adding other pieces?
LOMBARDI: “It’s just pounding away. You can make fun of all my charts, but you end up looking at 50 different options. `If this happens, that happens. If that happens, this happens.’ I guess the good part is, it’s safe to say we’ve got a player. At least the box is filled.”
Question: Is it particularly hard to project with him? There can’t be a lot of comparables out there for a 20-year-old Norris Trophy finalist.
LOMBARDI: “That doesn’t complicate it as much, for me, as being able to learn this system. It’s just mind-boggling. I was at a similar point in San Jose, when I had those three guys up, Marleau, Nabokov and Stuart. They were all good, young players, all on their way up. They held out on me. It was the year I got fired. All three of them held out. It just started us off on the wrong track. But I was arguing about $1.5 million to $2.5 million. I would love to have that argument now. It’s just mind-boggling. Sure, these are great young players, some of them, but that whole trend, to think that the system has gone from arguing about $1.5-$2.5 million to already talking about the numbers we’re talking about, it’s mind-boggling. As good as Drew is, there have been a lot of good, young, top players. Don’t get me wrong. Obviously I think Drew’s potential to be special is pretty good. Still, there used to be the element of experience, the thought that a guy who had put six years in the league, because he was more `predictable,’ had value. Because that’s all you’re doing when you’re paying a guy, unfortunately. You’re predicting what he’s going to be worth.
“So obviously when a guy has six, seven years under his belt, the `unknown’ factor becomes less. To think that, now, you have to predict, when a guy has two or three years in the league and has played in one playoffs, and we’re already talking about the numbers that we are, it’s just… I think back to the way it used to be, before the lockout, and the way it is now, and there’s no question that this part, before the lockout, made a lot more sense. So when you ask me if it’s difficult with Drew, because of the `uniqueness’ of the player, no. Don’t get me wrong. I think he’s a special player, but it’s more about this other stuff. You could be looking at a $90-million contract for a guy with two years in the league. As good as Ovechkin was, at the time he got (his new contract), he hadn’t played a playoff game. That’s what is difficult for me, sometimes. That’s when I have to slap myself and say, `Stop acting old and deal with it.’ But I find that more challenging than the fact of, `OK, what’s a guy worth who has been nominated for the Norris Trophy?”’
Question: When you talk about improving the 5-on-5 scoring margin, particularly on the “goals for” side, do you believe you have the manpower within the organization to improve that, or will you have to go outside and add pieces?
LOMBARDI: “It depends on what position. Because if you look at it, two our better prospects are centers, in Schenn and Loktionov. Loktionov is 19 years old, and he’s already played in the (AHL) conference finals as the No. 1 center. Schenn is the fifth overall pick, so obviously we think he has serious upside. So those guys have potential, certainly, to be in your top seven. I think that’s fairly strong. You’ve got two guys there with the upside to get to a No. 2 center, which is pretty good.”
Question: In general, though? Do you think the issue can be resolved internally?
LOMBARDI: “I don’t have a problem admitting that, in our system — and I don’t want to take anything away from a guy like Clifford, who was really good down the stretch, but he doesn’t have that m.o. that you’re citing, that sniper instinct. Moller is the guy who has that sniper instinct, that release. In the end, is that on the reserve list? It’s fair to say it’s not. There’s one kid in the minors. How do you address it? It’s not only free agency. Like you’ve heard me say before, one of the reasons you build up your system is to be able to make trades. So it’s not only free agency. It could be trades too.”
Question: Are you at that stage now? For the first few years, you were all about acquiring those draft picks and prospects and building the reserve list. Are you at that point now, where you can loosen the grip a bit?
LOMBARDI: “Yeah. I don’t have a problem with that, if it’s the right player. It’s still got to be the right fit. The difference is, before it was basically non-negotiable. It was easy to make a decision, because there was no other decision. You could make all your phone calls and do all your homework, but the reality was, you probably didn’t have enough to trade anyway, and it wouldn’t have been smart for the plan. Now, I can look at these things and have things that are attractive, and it fits into the plan. That started at the trade deadline. You heard me say that at the trade deadline this year, that it was a subtle sign of progress. I wasn’t a seller, I was a buyer. It still has to be the right price and the right player, and as you know, I didn’t get the guy who went to New Jersey. I just thought the price, at that time, was too high. I wasn’t moving top players for a guy who could walk on me in two months. I do think that your willingness to sell the house, so to speak, when you see teams really expend part of their reserve list, is because they think they can win the whole thing. So if I had done the deal that was proposed to me, to get that big guy at the trade deadline, the only way I could have conceivably thought about that was, `OK, we’re going to win the Cup here, so I will expend this level of player.’ But I wasn’t prepared to say that, and have this guy walk on me. Then we’re going backwards.”
Rich — One thing we know for sure, you have little room for improvement. Great stuff
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Great stuff Rich. Is there any chance Deano can improve on the length of his answers? By that I mean shortening them. I only get 30 minutes for lunch
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kyle Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 11:10 am
@Newf, I have an idea to make your lunchtime more efficient–wait till Quisp comments, and just read that. He’s as good as it gets in deciphering DL and in understanding talent and NHL CBA/cap rules. Plus he’s a faster read than DL.
Query–has anyone ever seen Quisp and Hextall in the same place at the same time? Just wondering….
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 11:19 am
@kyle,
everybody loves QUISP…:)
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luc20rules Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 7:11 pm
@variable, I’ve been incouraging Quisp to publish his blogs in a book to sell at the LA TEAM STORE. Actually that may be a waste of his talents, the Kings should hire him as a scout or Consultant to the GM.
luc20rules Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 7:13 pm
@variable, Sorry “encouraging” not “incouraging”
darko25o Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 10:12 pm
@variable, no…not everyone
Quisp Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 7:52 am
@darko25o
Uh, hello? I can hear you.
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jet Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 9:11 am
@Quisp,
Hey there are even people out there who do not like DL and TM. So you are in good company, even if you are paid a little less
I like DL’s verbose responses. Kills time during the offseason…
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“If they were maxed out on their potential, if they were 27 years and basically they were in their primes, then they would either be maintaining or going backward, and our focus would have to be, `OK, we’ve got to change this mix.’”…
eh…in other words…frolov is gone…(as if we didn’t know this already)…
i think that was dl’s way of further explaining why they won’t be able to re-sign him…and you could add this reason to the rumored contract (false rumors?) that fro is apparently seeking…
there were several unconfirmed reports last week from russian news sources that both kovy and fro were offered “extremely large sums” of money…
you gotta love the khl…
they have certain teams that can’t make payroll and yet they are still able to lure and attract nhl talent because of the amount of tax-free money they can throw at these players…
i almost think the league is some type junket for all the russian oil and gas billionaires…and it seems like the league has no unity or semblance…and as much money as these guys claim to have, do they claim to have any plan in actually working together…?…i think that is going to be the leagues downfall – lack of trust and organization between all the owners…and the fact that there’s already a huge financial gap between the haves and have-not’s…
another quote i felt was interesting…:
“Moller is the guy who has that sniper instinct, that release. In the end, is that on the reserve list? It’s fair to say it’s not. There’s one kid in the minors. How do you address it? It’s not only free agency. Like you’ve heard me say before, one of the reasons you build up your system is to be able to make trades. So it’s not only free agency. It could be trades too.”
?…so does that mean dl is more likely to trade oscar…?…that’s they way i read that…
draft day looks to be a busy day for us…i think dl is ready to pony up to the bar and start dealing…
i think we could expect some organizational realignment with our prospects and draft picks…now is the time to cautiously make decisions on some of these guys…we have many assets in the cupboard…it’s time to make use of some of them…and as dl eluded to, it looks like he will…
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Quisp Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 11:58 am
@variable,
“Moller is the guy who has that sniper instinct, that release. In the end, is that[1] on the reserve list? It’s fair to say it’s not. There’s one kid in the minors. How do you address it[2]? It’s not only free agency. Like you’ve heard me say before, one of the reasons you build up your system is to be able to make trades. So it’s not only free agency. It could be trades too.”
[1] “that” = “a sniper in the system who is ready to jump into top six minutes this year, as opposed to down the road.”
[2] “it” = “the need for a legitimate sniper for next season, as opposed to down the road.
Translation: we need a sniper. Moller isn’t going to be ready to take that on this year. So we are going to either sign (Marleau, Kovalchuk) or trade for (St. Louis, Iginla) one, if possible.
Moller is mentioned as “the sniper in the system,” not as “the prospect we can trade away because we need something now.”
However, re prospects, I would note some (intentional) duplication in types of players:
Hickey, Voynov (Martinez)
Teubert, Muzzin (Campbell)
Kozun, Azevedo, Roe
Lewis, Cliche
Zatkoff, Jones (not similar, just both goalies)
I’m not saying these guys are exact duplicates, but you could, for example, trade Voynov, Teubert, Cliche, Jones and Azevedo without missing a beat. It wouldn’t even hurt that much to trade Voynov, Teubert, Kozun, Lewis and Zatkoff.
If Schenn is going to be ready to play top-six this fall, we’ve got a Stoll to deal. And of course Ersberg.
I still would consider packaging Williams and Stoll and some prospects for Iginla. (I know, ownership said they’re not trading him; [cough] Phaneuf [cough]). Maybe send some prospects to Chicago for whoever they’re coughing up in the fire sale.
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:17 pm
@Quisp,
i knew you’d be all over this…
y’know, that’s an interesting interpretation, if you inflect with the editing you have outlined…
but. regardless, if oscar is not ready, then more interest might be surrounding him from other gm’s…it’s not a secret about what oscar needs to do to make it as an everyday, top-sixer…
but if dl is able to upgrade and get a box filled in at the expense of a project player like oscar…(QUISP, he still is a project – imo – that has shown flashes of his abilities – i know you are wont to disagree), why not…?
i guess it all depends on how you assess oscar’s ability to achieve those off-season goals – getting bigger and stronger…
if you can’t get a long-term solution for oscar, then he’s probably worth holding onto…if so, i think you make that trade…
i know you are a huge fan of his, QUISP…and i do think the kid can play…he has potential…i’m just not convinced he is really gonna be the homegrown, sniper solution to fill that box in the years to come…
i admit, i am not as optimistic as you are…and as big as oscar plays, i just see the wear-down effect hampering his long-term value…
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@variable,
What you say makes sense and I could see Oscar being an asset in a trade to get a guy that can make an impact now. However, like Quisp said he is our only sniper prospect now so trading him leaves us empty in that regard. I still think if we trade its likely to be from our D prospect depth and maybe goalie too with Zatkoff/Jones but of course it would also depend on strengths and weaknesses of team we are dealing with so who knows.
deadcatbounce Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:38 pm
@Quisp, you said: “I still would consider packaging Williams and Stoll and some prospects for Iginla. (I know, ownership said they’re not trading him; [cough] Phaneuf [cough]).”
This is one trade that won’t happen because Stoll and Williams along with a couple of defensive prospects don’t even come close to answering the Flames’ need for offense and, yes, another sniper, especially if they’re going to deal Iginla, and Moller won’t cut it, either. Just my opinion, but since you offered up a trade possibility I’m always eager to play the other GM, so let me counter with Simmonds and Brown as a starting base…
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:47 pm
@deadcatbounce,
agree 100% re: iginla trade scenario involving jw, stoll + dp’s…
i can see calgary getting better players from other teams if the want to trade jarome…
to me, that’s the deal (jw/stoll) you hope to make in fantasy sports…however, if QUISP is right and that’s all it would take, i would love to be wrong…:)
luc20rules Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 7:24 pm
@Quisp, Great Post, do you think DL was just talking about Manchester? I think after the year at Juniors that Schenn & Kozun had they would need to be considered as possibly developing into NHL snipers. He may have been just talking about who could step in right away as you implied with Moller.
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:04 pm
@variable,
In regards to DL being more likely to trade oscar moller now, I don’t think that is how he meant it.
He says its fair to say we don’t have that goal-scoring talent on the reserve/prospect list since we only have one kid in the minors that has any sort of sniper potential really. This is basically what everyone has been saying for a while now is that we lack high end scoring wingers in our prospect pool, which DL mentions Clifford and other guys arent really that type of player. Because of this we would have to look to FA or trades to address that need at this point in time since we have only one prospect that maybe will be ready in a couple years.
I still think if we trade its likely we dip into the D prospects since we have DD and JJ looking like long time answers as 2 top defenseman and Greene/Scuds each here for a few more years at least allowing prospects we draft now to develop and not rush. Finally we have Voynov, Hickey, Muzzin, Teubert, Martinez,etc in Manchester and Deslauriers seems like a good developing guy in the QMJHL so I think DL picks between those D guys who he thinks makes it and trades some of the others since we have so much depth there.
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deadcatbounce Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:57 pm
@variable, I’m not even sure the Flames want to trade Iginla, although he’s the only legitimate forward who could fetch a decent crop of players. The backlash in Cow Town would be enormous, and rightfully so, so if you’re Sutter you’d better be sure you’re making the best deal you can.
[Reply]
quisp Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@deadcatbounce,
i’m not saying they will trade him, but iginla is on record saying he will waive his NTC “to help the team.” That’s code for, “bring in people so we can win, or get me the hell out of here.” we’ll see which way calgary goes on this.
if he gets traded, it’s not going to be for a package of superstars. it’s going to be for something in the neighborhood of two roster players, a blue-chip prospect or two and/or a high pick.
Cricket Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:06 pm
@variable,
I read that more as DL saying we only have one sniper in the reserve list, and Oscar’s it. We have a lot of D on the reserve, as well as centers from the second line position down to the fourth. “It’s fair to say it’s not,” is that we don’t have snipers on the reserve because only one kid fits that category. If anything, might make Oscar more valuable, (but most likely still an AHL’er next year.)
[Reply]
variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:28 pm
@Cricket,
point well-taken…:)
i know we all read too much into these things…
but…
as bloggers and fans, that’s what we do – we anticipate, prognosticate and debate what RICH provides us…
i could imagine that the truth is somewhere in the middle of what you, QUISP, CYNIC (see below), GOKINGS and i have said…
i just can’t imagine dl saying no to a significant upgrade for the team, even if oscar is involved…especially when there are still questions as to whether or not oscar will be able to handle the daily grind of the nhl…
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DL is being pretty open about the possibility of some big moves in the near future. Going to be exciting around here…..
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Is he seriously afraid to refer to Kovalchuk by name??
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McDonalds Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 11:42 am
@Geoff,
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fiveholio Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 11:43 am
@Geoff,
IK is not a UFA yet, so maybe Dean’s afraid of tampering. Don’t know if they have major tampering issues in the NHL, but if it’s anything like the NFL…
[Reply]
McDonalds Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 11:43 am
@Geoff,
hahaha. I was a little curious about that too
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VanKingsFan Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@Geoff, With all of the Kovy hawks in LA I would be afraid too. I would rather not hear his name brought up at all unless it is to say good riddance and good luck int he KHL. Grow fat on vodka and cavier and sleep soundly on your pile of money with many beautiful ladies.
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Geoff Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 10:32 pm
@VanKingsFan, Hah! Yeah, I’m not especially keen on seeing him take up valuable cap space that could go toward keeping Drew or paying the bills for Scuderi and Smyth. Brayden Schenn and and Bernier probably won’t come too cheap for very long, either…
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My bet is on a player like Rick Nash. Front line LW, young, power forward and he is signed at a cheaper 7.8 million/year for 8 years compared to Kovalchuk who might want 9-10/year for 10 years. Problem is Columbus will not trade him.
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:08 pm
@oldthunder,
Yep, like you said Columbus won’t trade him. It’d be like some other team trying to get Doughty from us, pretty much impossible.
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luc20rules Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 7:29 pm
@oldthunder, I’m just dreaming, but there has to be a team somewhere that is just looking to make the bottom of the cap requirement that we could trade Smyth (actual pay 2 mil below Cap Hit) to and get back someone younger with similar skill even if we need to throw something else in.
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Geoff Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 10:33 pm
@luc20rules, But why would we want to dump Smitty?
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 8:18 am
@luc20rules,
Why would they trade a young player of about equal skill level for Smyth just to add salary cap and get older? They could just sign more expensive free agents this summer to get to floor and not have to give up a valuable young player that will continue to improve for Smyth who is only getting older now. Smyth has been good for leadership and helping change the style of the team a bit and helping Kopitar. His cap hit is a bit high(due to Colorado overpaying him in free agency) but he brings other intangibles that make it worth it.
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 10:39 pm
@GoKings09, Many NHL teams are losing money. With Smith the Cap hit is 6.2 mil/yr, but his pay is only 4.4 mil next two years, so they can reach the minimum Cap using the 6.2 mil/yr Cap Hit, but pay 1.8 mil/yr less. Of course I am sure they would want prospects or draft picks as well. I like Smyth, but at this point in his career he will wear out by the playoffs and also miss 20+ games to injury each year.
“Moller is the guy who has that sniper instinct, that release. In the end, is that on the reserve list? It’s fair to say it’s not. There’s one kid in the minors. How do you address it? It’s not only free agency. Like you’ve heard me say before, one of the reasons you build up your system is to be able to make trades. So it’s not only free agency. It could be trades too.”
Copying & answering Variable here, YES. I think that’s exactly what it means.
After hearing what Luc told me about Moller needing to crack the top 6 because of his size, a very good point, and now reading this from DL, I think it’s only obvious that this is the first thought.
Now I like Oscar and all, he’s going to be a solid NHL player for someone, but we are so stacked down the middle with prospects that are bigger than Oscar that his best chance to crack the NHL is with another team. As skilled as Oscar is, he’ll bring good value. It could end up being a win/win. I don’t think it’s a case of DL not wanting him anymore, far from it. I just think it’s a case of where is Oscar more valuable to the team at this point. Is it on the ice or part of a deal? We need scoring, so I believe being part of a deal to bring it is the answer right now.
Now if he has a growth spurt in the next 3 months and adds 30 pounds of muscle in the process, that could change. Don’t see it happening, but I think DL is simply keeping options open.
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Quisp Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:15 pm
@Cynic,
Nah. Not trading OM. Try to picture Lombardi’s 2012-13 wall and you’ll see why.
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:33 pm
@Cynic,
yeah…i think i’m more inclined to believe that oscar is a movable asset…
QUISP…:
do you have a projection as to how that wall will look by 2012-13 from a minor-league organizational standpoint..?
we can sit here and chart on how all the possibilities that free agency, trades, etc. can dictate strategy, so i realize there’s a limit to the hypothesizing…
but…let’s pretend here for a sec…:
with the current prospects in place…assuming that there’s no future dealings…what does that wall look like to you…?
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GoKings98 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:44 pm
@variable,
I know you asked Quisp and not me, but my wall looks something like:
Moller-Kopitar-Kozun
Parse-Lokti-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Cliche-Richardson-Lewis
Doughty-Muzzin
Johnson-Hickey
Voynov-Teubert
Bernier
Quick
Maybe something like that. Once I started I realized how hard it is because
1)I expect some of those guys to probably be traded
2)Draft picks from this year may make the team in a few years so top line winger may be Etem, Kuznetsov, Skinner,etc(whoever you want to say we pick this year)
3)Some veterans are likely to be retained(Greene, Handzus for cheap, Smyth for cheaper maybe, Scuds)
4)D is very good and its hard to know how chemistry will affect pairing but I think almost all could make the lineup and Deslauriers sounds pretty good although at least a few years away still in development.
I’m sure Quisp’s lineup will be better
[Reply]
variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@GoKings98,
it’s always an “open” question on here to anyone who wants to answer…so i appreciate yr response…
and…don’t sell yrself short, buddy…yr chart is very interesting and you make some great observations…
however, i don’t think the plan is for richardson to remain a 4th liner…no way…i think he’s gonna be asked to take the next step this season…so i think it’s more likely of him cracking the top-9…even the top-6…if his game continues to improve…i am basing this solely on what we have seen from richie during the end of the season and the theory that his rate of progression will continue…it’s not impossible at all…
and i also see simmonds in the top six…
again, i know the limited parameters i’m setting up here…so we all dont have to factor in the other aforementioned elements…
but it provides us a great discussion…:)
Quisp Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:35 pm
@variable,
Sadly, I have spreadsheets on the next several years.
You can’t really name a starting line-up, because of all the trades and signings (and picks) that will happen between now and then. However:
[TBD]/Kopitar/Simmonds
Clifford/Schenn/Brown
Parse/Loktionov/Moller
King/Nolan/Lewis
(Clune)
Scuderi/Doughty
Johnson/Muzzin
Hickey/Greene
(Teubert)
Bernier-Quick
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Crown Royal Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 5:33 pm
@Quisp,
Your posts are always interesting. I think you’re close about the future line-up except I flip Brown with Moller or Clifford with Parse, and add Westgarth where you slotted Lewis otherwise…no enforcer.
Lewis would be the extra forward but I think the fourth line center is yet to be drafted or acquired through trade. Ideally this will be a big, physical guy who wins face-offs and is a right handed shot.
Your defense looks right-on barring trades.
Cynic Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 6:10 pm
@Quisp & Duckhunter
Now I’ll ask you all the same question Luc asked me when I (basically) recoiled in horror at the thought of Moller not making the team next year: “Where in the top 6 do you put him right now? Do you move Brown? Willie? Who?” Remember guys, this is Luc Robitaille asking this question and it’s a good one.
In Quisp’s predictions, OM is on the third line. Is that your 2012-2013 lineup? There are 2 drafts in there and we are stacked at center.
GoKings has him on the top line, which I think is a bit of a stretch, but I’d love to see OM achieve that level of play.
Now I’m not mocking anyone’s predictions here, I love reading it all. I also want to see OM succeed and crack the lineup. I also am a realist and based on first-hand & reliable second-hand (Rich) info from the office, putting the 2 together and our need for scoring leads me to believe OM is an asset waiting to be moved.
I believe Oscar is playing for an Eastern Conference team before too long. I certainly wouldn’t expect DL to trade him in the division, or even the conference. Do I want to see him go? HELL NO! Will he? Most likely, yes.
Here’s my projected lineup for next year:
Smyth-Kopi-Williams
Parse-Stoll-Brown
Richardson-Zeus-Simmonds
Clune-Schenn-Lewis/Westgarth
Scuderi/Doughty
Johnson/O’Donnell
Drewiskie/Greene
Harrold
SWAPS:
Loktionov (or Moller if not traded) for Stoll
Clifford for Clune
GONE:
Frolov
Ivanans
Halpern
Modin
Jones
Not flashy, but what I think will happen. I could see Loktionov push Stoll out if he has a ridiculous summer and even more ridiculous training camp. Stoll might help as trade bait for some scoring and just might save Oscar Moller from moving. A salary dump would not be a bad thing right now with all the kids we have to sign.
luc20rules Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 7:33 pm
@Quisp, How much do you charge DL for your spreadsheets that he uses for Breakfast with the GM? LOL, well no actually, I’m serious.
Duckhunter Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 5:02 pm
@Cynic,
I’m with Quisp regarding Moller. My statement is truly my own and not what I think DL is going to do. I myself would keep Moller. I, like Quisp believe Moller has all the intangibles to be a fine young hockey player. He has skill, leadership abilities, smarts and he’s tough as nails. Everyone always talks about how he gets “blown up” or “crushed” out on the ice, but nobody ever talks about how he makes the play before sacrificing his body. And nobody mentions how he gets up every time and continues the battle without hesitation. The kid fights along the boards and he goes to the middle without fear(at least he doesn’t show fear). This kid will be a valuable asset in a few years. The good news is getting bigger and stronger is the easiest part of being an athlete. Oh ya, it’s hard work, but anyone can do it. It’s not a “God given gift”,it’s available to whoever wants it. I’m hoping this kid works hard to get stronger(nothing tells he he won’t) because he can be the real deal in my opinion.
Marleau and Kovi are available through free agency, no assets needed. Iginla I think stays put. He’s been one of my favorite players for a long time but hes lost a lot of his firepower and I wouldn’t be willing to give up what they’d be asking for in return if they did trade him. I really like the idea of St. Louis until Moller develops. I can see Stoll and Williams for St. Louis. Then I’d go after Versteeg(Player-X idea) or one of the available players. I would be pleased with St. Louis and Versteeg in a King uniform as well as holding on to Moller.
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$90M for Doughty? I suppose it depends on how it is structured…but on the face such an outrageous sum is what has gone crazy about pro sports. The salaries of these “superstars” is distorting reality creating a fantasy world that no average sports fan can truly comprehend. In our society there is simply no relationship between value of work and its remuneration. Sports is a cartoon….a big joke on all of us….with higher ticket costs, more commercials, and less access for the average person. It is sick!!
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 12:36 pm
@deepwater,
In regards to “superstar” salaries and how DL talks about rookies getting so much money, then I would agree it has gotten out of hand(at least in the NHL there is a rookie limit for ELC’s unlike in NFL so here players get huge paydays after 3 years of play where in NFL players get huge paydays before ever playing a single game-just look at Jamarcus Russel who never played well but made more than most starting QB’s the past couple years.)
However, the reason that they are paid so much is due to the owners not the players(of course the players want more money, who wouldn’t want more). The way most sports work out the salary cap is a certain percentage of profits must go to salary so if we reduced the salary caps and drove down salaries of all the players, all that extra money would go from the players’ pockets to the owners’ and I for one would rather see the players get the money since they are the ones putting on the show and working hard to be good enough to play rather than the owners that profit off of them.
The bottom line is that it’s us fans that pay to watch and enjoy the games as well as owners driving up prices that lead to huge profits that get distributed among the players. I don’t have a problem with the salaries they get(except NFL rookies which I mentioned earlier).
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:17 pm
@GoKings09,
i totally believe that one of the bigger issues coming up when the CBA expires in 2013-14 (gosh, it still feels surreal saying those dates!) is the fact that there is no cap on second-contracts for players…
dl had recently commented that he likens the current nhl situation to the one that the nba had to deal with a few seasons ago…
i totally agree…but i also say that well-aware that the owners historically cannot police themselves…and once one gm finds a creative loophole to any designed agreement, many other gm’s follow suit and create a schism in the financial dynamics…
the long-term, “lifetime” deals made by the likes of charles wang were once laughed at (okay…offering a lifetime deal to rick dipietro is ridiculous at any time, at any level of pro hockey)…now are being championed by the likes of the kenny holland’s of the sport…
dl is obviously on the fence about this and drew’s situation hits this fact hard…i truly believe in dl’s honesty re: doughty…i’ve said it before – drew’s not going anywhere…REGARDLESS…if he signs a two- or 20-year deal…
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deepwater Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:31 pm
@GoKings09, thanks for your reasoned comments. I realize I was venting about something that has, well, a life of its own. Likely only market forces will determine where it goes from here. Russell is a good example of “salaries gone wild.” I guess the question for me is, what is reasonable? Good ol’ capitalism is great…but people (bankers, hedgefund operators, oil companies, etc…seem to have forgotten that ethical behavior is a fundamental characteristic of true capitalism) How long before the fans have had enough? Is it ethical to keep sticking it to the fans? I mean look at the NBA…are they really playing basketball? I hope the NHL never suffers a similar fate.
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I’m just glad Lombardi sounded like he was clear on Clifford. The way King fans made it sound, the kid was gonna come in and score 40 goals, have 300 PIM and beat up seven fans of opposing teams in the stands. I’ll be happy to see him get 15 goals in Manchester!
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:52 pm
@Marc Nathan,
I don’t think its unrealistic to expect Clifford to make the team next year. He won’t be a huge goal-scorer or play on the top 2 lines, but he would be a solid 3rd or 4th liner that brings energy, hitting with some toughness and grit as well as offensive upside. He scored 28 goals last year and has improved each season in terms of points and goals. I see him as similar to Simmonds but with more grit/toughness and a little less speed/skill but I think he would fit well on the 3rd line with Handzus mentoring him in a shutdown role with minimal pressure to put up lots of points. He almost made the team last year and could make it this year I think.
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Marc Nathan Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:28 pm
@GoKings09, your expectations are very high. This team needs to not be Columbus next year. Too many kids, not enough leaders might equal a step back. Not what Kings fans want to hear, but it could happen if goaltending is subpar and there’s still no 5 on 5 scoring to speak of. I love the kids, but they need experience in the AHL. Not everyone is Drew Doughty.
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GoKings09 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:59 pm
@Marc Nathan,
If he makes the team as a 4th liner, he needs to be responsible defensively and bring lots of energy and toughness/hitting which I think it is reasonable to assume he can do. If he plays well enough to get 3rd line minutes with Handzus, then I think that Zeus will be a good mentor for him on the ice and help him to be like Simmonds with a responsible defensive game and lots of energy mixed with a little upside offensively.
I don’t see us taking a step back because most of the kids are likely going to continue to improve and I find it very unlikely that goaltending is an issue. In my opinion, Quick was very good but not great for us last year. He had his ups and downs over the course of the season, but I feel like everyone overreacted a little because we finally had a GOOD goalie rather than Labarbera, Cloutier or even Fukufuji playing for us. Quick and Bernier should be at least solid for goaltending if not better.
Quisp Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:38 pm
@Marc Nathan,
he’s still got juniors eligibility left. but i think he makes the kings in 2010.
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I enjoy reading DL’s thoughts about the team and where he see it going, what they need, etc. However, I will refrain from trying to read between the lines for what it all means for this or that player on the roster.
With all due respect to everyone here who has speculated about DLs “meaning” in this interview, I’ll bow out and just wait to see how it pans out, and thrn maybe share thoughts if I feel they are relevant once it does. The reality is that none of us know who will go over the Summer, who will stay, who will make the squad in the Fall, who will not, etc.
A statement such as, “DL saying ‘X’ means Fro is gone!” or something of that nature about any player, is really only speculation I don’t care to get involved in. None of us actually knows what will happen, but don’t we like to blather on about it! Guess that’s what blogs are all about…
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:40 pm
@Minnesota Kings Fan,
as bloggers and fans, that’s what we do – we anticipate, prognosticate and debate what RICH provides us…
having conversations about this is neither fact or fiction – it’s opinion…and participating in a blog as a blogger gives us latitude in our aspersions and machinations…
obviously, RICH’s blog lends itself to a variety of issues, not limiting to any one subject matter, in particular…
i understand that blogging under these guises is similar to the talking heads on tv news/sports shows or a.m. talk radio…
but…why not us…?
are our insights any less important or less speculative than…let’s say…the wall street forecaster…?…or the resident retired military news person…?…or the former athlete turned “insider”…?
all of us have the ability to see 40 different shades of black when we look at the nighttime sky…this is also apparent in discussing dl’s thoughts…
some of us like to dissect them…others, like yrself, choose not to…
and, that my fellow kings fan, is what a blog is all about – freedom of discussion (under blog rules…of course…!)
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rick Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 1:54 pm
@variable, Well said.
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KC23 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 6:27 pm
@Minnesota Kings Fan,
I’ll take the original poster’s take. Pointless to come to conclusions about such things. Might as well try and predict next years weather. Virtually all DL answers leave him an out regardless what happens.
I do love reading and wondering about stuff, but conclusions are pure fan fantasey.
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I had to LOL at the doughty being overweight, losing it and getting it back again and nobodys the wiser, played amazing all year. Sign him for a loooong time!
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Newf Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:39 pm
@Kings Fan in Temecula, i thank Smytty for witholding pop after a loss!
too much unecessary sugar for that boy. he’s hyper enough as it is. if he were to keep drinking pop he’d get so wound up that one day he’s start his spin-o-rama and never stop. probab cut a hole through the ice too.
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“I didn’t get the guy who went to New Jersey. I just thought the price, at that time, was too high.”
Is the phrase “at that time” telling?
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Quisp Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:14 pm
@Eric C.,
I thought it was.
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Eric C. Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 8:00 pm
@Quisp, Very agreed.
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Seems that even DL is acknowledging the #2 center spot is still to be filled. Seems like he’s really counting on a youngster though to keep him out of cap trouble. I don’t think he wants to go back to his “bridge” player days although Stoll as center appears to be on that route.
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puck73 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 4:40 pm
@jammer06, Theirs an old saying..good teams have 1 great center, great teams have 2 ! Trying to get Eric Staal or Ryan Getzlaf would be near impossible but if any organization has the depth ta do it it would be the Kings. A cheaper and temporary solution could be to sign a guy like Andy Macdonald to 2 year deal as a stop gap until Schenn is ready to be a top 2 center. Macdonald knows how to score and knows how to pass the puck and has won a cup..it is a cheaper way to go I guess if something big doesnt work out.
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 6:58 pm
@puck73,
Toews, Sharp, Bolland, Madden;
Try four great centers!!
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puck73 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 9:18 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968, If you wanna be technical we have 4 good ones with Handzus and Stoll. What I was referring to was the top 2 centers on the team which are usually reserved for offense…thats what I meant by that.
Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:23 am
@puck73
I know what you meant; we’ve got Kopi, Schenn, Stoll, Zeus, and even Richie although he plays all over and needs to be resigned.
I was surprised by your mention of McDonald. I think he has three more years at over 4 per with the Blues. We would have to make a big trade to get him.
quisp Reply:
June 3rd, 2010 at 7:31 am
@Doc. Mark 1968,
Two of which likely won’t be on the team in the fall.
Yes, the impending Chicago “fire sale” does loom large. I do hope we get our share.
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This deviates from the thread, but with the recent speculation about a Kings’ ownership change, I found this story to be enlightening considering Bettman addressed the rumors particularly concerning the Kings and Islanders.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5230301
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 2:18 pm
@Joel,
gosh…
you ever get the feeling that gary bettman should have been nominated for the norris as the league’s best defensemen sometime during his tenure…???…because, that’s all he does – play defense…
is this guy ever going to realize the reality of his league…?
i don’t want to spend the next 2 hours dissecting his latest salvo re: all-things-nhl-considered…
he’s really a piece of work…and although there are certain qualities i like about him…the cons clearly outweigh the pros…
but, like his mentor david stern, he’s probably not going anywhere anytime soon…
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VanKingsFan Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 2:24 pm
@variable, Speaking of Bettman and things related, I hear Hartford is the latest to want their team back … presumably from a southern US failure.
I say do it just because who didnt love the Whale!! (except people from hartford)
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variable Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 2:39 pm
@VanKingsFan,
pro-whale…pro-whalers jerseys, too…:)
edwood2 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 5:32 pm
@VanKingsFan, I still have my Whalers jersey. I bought it when Tiger went there. Didn’t get to wear it much, though!
AZKingsFan Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 5:48 pm
@VanKingsFan,
Back when I was growing up and lived in Boston, the Bruins always had our number. I had to goto Hartford to see the Kings win a game. I LOVED Hartford!
“the price…was too high. I wasn’t moving top players for a guy who could walk on me in two months”.
Next season goes better with Noooooooovalchuk!
Good (non)move Dean
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chris prongers an ass
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Marc Nathan Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 3:29 pm
@andy, that would be a valuable piece to the puzzle on ANY of the 30 NHL teams. His track record speaks for itself…
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WWAMD Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 6:27 pm
@Marc Nathan,
He should be suspended more often and he’s a dirty player. I would not want Pronger on the Kings. He’s bad news and a bad apple. No Thanks
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kiosku2 Reply:
June 1st, 2010 at 9:22 pm
@andy,
I’ve read some good stuff today and I am more excited for next season than I’ve been since the Greztky days (or following the 2001 playoff year)but that’s the truth with respect (or none) to Pronger. Absolutely hate this guy whether he’s been a duck or part of any other team. Good way to sum it up Andy!
Anybody know why he keeps commandeering the game pucks after the final buzzer? The Hawks took great exception to his antics at the end of Game two…
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@cynic et al re Moller:
“Where in the top 6 do you put him right now? Do you move Brown? Willie? Who?” Remember guys, this is Luc Robitaille asking this question and it’s a good one.
I wouldn’t put him in the top-six at all right now. But to answer #20′s question in a somewhat broader context, I expect that one or both of Williams and Stoll will be traded in the next two years. I don’t know what happens to Smyth after his contract expires. He signs on for much much much less? Okay, maybe. Or maybe he walks away. And we currently have only one LW (Smyth) in the top six. It’s reasonable to assume that only Brown and Kopitar will remain of the current first two lines by the time 2012 rolls around. It’s also reasonable to assume that one or more of Schenn, Moller, Loktionov, Simmonds and I guess Kozun will crack the top six to fill in those spots.
“In Quisp’s predictions, OM is on the third line. Is that your 2012-2013 lineup? There are 2 drafts in there and we are stacked at center.”
Not really though. I don’t pay much attention to line numbers. I just put Schenn’s line second because I thought it would ruffle fewer feathers. In reality, that would be a stopper line, like the current Handzus line. I think of the lines as Kopitar, speed (Loktionov, Moller), crash (Schenn, Brown, Clifford) and fear (Nolan, King). The Moller unit is the one that scores 60-80 goals because everyone has to focus on the Kopitar line.
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