Moving on to the wingers, here’s what Ron Hextall said about a handful of the Manchester Monarchs’ wingers this season. Oscar Moller had 15 goals and 18 assists in 43 games. Bud Holloway had 19 goals and 28 assists in 75 games. Dwight King had 10 goals and 16 assists in 52 games. Kevin Westgarth had 11 goals and 14 assists in 76 games. Kyle Clifford didn’t join the Monarchs until his junior season ended (he had 28 goals and 29 assists in 58 games with Barrie) and had two assists in seven playoff games. Here are Hextall’s thoughts on those prospects…
HEXTALL: “Oscar was OK. We expect a little more production out of him. I think it’s a typical example of a guy who plays a year in the NHL, and then it’s hard to go down. Don’t get me wrong. He had a good attitude and he worked hard. We just didn’t see that little bit of desperation, I guess, in his game that he needs. I think, when it came down to the end of the playoffs, he and Lokti were similar, in terms of their lack of strength, in the time and space, wasn’t there. It became pretty evident that Oscar, along with Lokti, they’ve got to get stronger.
“Bud Holloway had a real good run in the playoffs. He’s come a long ways, from being sent to Ontario in the East Coast league last year and really going up this year and not only proving he belongs there but being a pretty good player there. He was an important player for us, in terms of scoring. There’s some things he’s got to work on. He’s got to become a little more of a straight-line player, instead of all the east-west stuff, cutting to the middle, trying to beat a defenseman and things, but overall I like his progression.
“Dwight King, he started out in Ontario and got called up. Quite frankly, the first couple weeks there, he didn’t really do a lot, but then I was there a couple months ago and he started to play really well. He’s a smart player. He makes the right plays. He’s a big, strong body and, talking to (coach) Mark Morris there, whatever line he was on — because he bounced around a little bit, with Zeiler and then with Westgarth for a while, and they were good, and then he went up with Lokti and Moller and they were good — it seemed like whatever line Kinger was on, the line started to get going. So he was an important part. He can play with good players, but he can also play the power game. He makes the good give-and-go plays.
“Westie really improved. He worked hard on his skating. Every time I was there, after practice and stuff he would take the time to work on his skating and improve it. He’s at the point now where his skating and his work ethic are up, and he’s making impact hits, which in that role is an important thing. In terms of the physical part, quite frankly he got a lot of space. There weren’t a lot of guys who wanted to go anywhere near him. He was making better decisions with the puck, getting pucks deep and getting pucks out of the zone, and knowing when to make plays and when not to make plays. He improved. Westie can still upgrade his level of conditioning, and that will be the biggest focus this summer for him, from our standpoint. He got hurt late in the season, so he was out for the last couple weeks and we missed him. We missed him against Hershey, his size and his presence. We had some guys taking some liberties who probably wouldn’t have otherwise.
“Clifford made a big impression. He played really well in the first couple games that I was there. He probably set expectations a little too high, but he played with Lokti and Moller, and he’s exactly what they need because they’re obviously not real big guys. So he was in there, digging pucks and getting pucks out to them and stuff. To come out of junior as an 18-year-old hockey player and be elevated to a top line, obviously the fit was there. He justified it. He didn’t start out there. He justified his spot there, in time. He’s just a big power forward. Guys are intimidated by him. He’s getting to the net, no matter what. It doesn’t matter what’s in his way, he’s going through it. He’s not going around it, he’s going through it, and he plays with the type of determination that we like to see. Again, he was a great fit for that team at that time.”
I really don’t think conditioning is an issue for Westie… with the amount of ice time he would get in the NHL… if he cant skate hard for 4-5 minutes a night (often less) then he is in horrible horrible shape. Not only for a pro hockey player but for a human being in general.
The best comments seemed to be reserved for Cliffy
Disappointing to hear that about the Mole..he needs to come into camp next year with the same determination he did as a rookie.
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gary livingston Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@VanKingsFan,
Skating around is one thing. Being a key and dominating physical player…crashing into people…crashing into boards…fighting…it’s a hell of a lot different.
You can’t focus on just one minor factor in the equation. Of course you’ll jump to that conclusion. But, it is not the correct one.
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Verno Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
@VanKingsFan,
“I really don’t think conditioning is an issue for Westie”
I always take a fans opinion over a General Managers any day of the week!
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USHA#17 Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
@VanKingsFan,
Conditioning can mean more then keeping up, it is also a factor in not getting injured…4 minutes or 16 minutes.
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luc20rules Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
@VanKingsFan, Hexy did save his best comments for Clifford, but I just wish he would have used the terms Clifford plays really heavy. That would really get TMs attention. I really liked this quote Hexy about Clifford
“He’s getting to the net, no matter what. It doesn’t matter what’s in his way, he’s going through it. He’s not going around it, he’s going through it”.
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David Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
@VanKingsFan,
All of the above.
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skill vs. size…
westgarth and clifford are getting big ups…so it looks like they will have a legit op come august/september…
if both lokti and moller can’t get any bigger physically due to genetics, it goes back to the skill vs. size question…oscar plays like his bigger, but is often injured because of it…so it does come down to how much potential he has to grow into his frame…or perhaps, out of his frame…lokti will have another year (at least) of time to get bigger and stronger if it doesn’t happen for him this season at the nhl-level…i think the kings have oscar on the bubble (sorry QUISP!)…
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quisp Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
@variable,
They’re kids. Let’s talk when they’re not. Moller and Loktionov will lead the AHL in point/game next year and hopefully they’ll score a cumulative 20 goals in the NHL too.
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wavesinair Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
@variable, I disagree with Hextall actually. Perhaps I’m splitting hairs on his word choice, but Moller is extremely strong. Sorry Hex. He might not be big enough yet (or he hasn’t learned to use his lack of size productively yet) but I don’t put Oscar and Lokti in the same boat at all.
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holly Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
@variable, Lokti absolutely can get bigger. He may not grow any vertically, but there is absolutely room for improvement when it comes to muscle mass and strength. He’ll likely always be lanky, but right now he’s just slight. And I think much of that has to do with his age.
As far as Moller goes, he’s physically very broad. The guy is built like a wall. However, I also think that was a more recent development because I don’t remember him looking quite so muscular ever before. I think for him the biggest thing is going to be figuring out how this fits into his game. We’ve seen guys come and go who are just destined to be skill players who’s games exist solely on the ability to out think and out finesse the opposition. Moller, I think, has the ability to branch out into more of a grinder who just happens to have pretty good hands.
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I like that Hextall tells it like it is. He doesn’t seem to be pulling too many punches
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I read these comments and don’t get very excited. The two guys who got the best reviews are bangers who are not going to be finishers at the pro level. The two guys who seem to have real scoring touches may be too small to make it in the NHL. Overall, I wish we had more….
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jammer06 Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
@rick,
Don’t get too down, just realize these guys are just further than next year at best. We are talking about low success rate odds anyway so you have to couch your enthusiasm in that perspective.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
@rick, Also consider the fact that LA is in the top five teams in the league in terms of quality and depth of prospects.
Take a look at some other teams prospect pool and you will start feeling a HELL of a lot better about ours.
Constructive criticism makes you better. What if Moller read Hextalls comments and they were all positive and gushing .. he would get a big head.
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rick Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
@VanKingsFan, Understand what you and jammer06 are saying. Nevertheless, I think most of us on here agree that we need some top of the line forward talent to make it over the hump, and I don’t think it is on its way via the farm system at any time in the near future. As one of those who doesn’t want to wait another 2-3 (or more ?) years for us to be legitimate Cup contenders, this review of Manchester talent (thanks Rich!) just highlights the need for some big free agency or trade moves.
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Tami Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
@rick, Don’t forget, we have Schenn (though not a winger) who could make the team in the forward group too. It’s not just Manchester (AHL), but ALL of our prospects.
luc20rules Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
@VanKingsFan, Is that what happened to Cammi?
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Steve S. Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
@luc20rules,
I would like to propose and embargo on all comments about Cammileri, esp. the favorable ones.
jet Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
@rick, none of these guys can even go to a bar yet, patience.
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holly Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
@jet,
Actually, to get technical, once July roles around, Clifford will be the only one not 21. But technicalities aside, I agree that for most of them patience is key. We’ve seen their play improve leaps and bounds over the past season.
Also just in general, if Westie continues the work that he was very obviously putting in during the offseason and the regular season, I’d say look for him to take on a role larger than Ivanans was entrusted with. He’s never going to be a big minutes guy, but it’s unlikely that he’ll have us living in the terror that was Ivanans on the ice. He’s improved all around this year, taking his play from a guy who mostly was only effective when fighting to a guy who actually didn’t fight all that much and proved himself useful in a number of other ways. He had 18 fighting majors this year, 17 last year and 25 the year before. However, this year he scored 11 goals and 14 assists. He’ll never be a big scorer, but this was more than double his all time high.
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I think there’s a tendency to read too much into the little morsels we get from Lombardi, Hextall et al. What they’re saying is interesting and I love to get as much information as I can get. But it only goes so far. Sometimes we take whatever the latest update is and go hog wild with it, so and so is definitely making the team next year (hey, I just said that about Clifford! Of course, it’s true:).), so and so has been passed over, yadda3x. The truth is, what Hextall is saying is pretty much exactly what we’ve all observed.
Moller had an “ok” season.
Loktionov needs to be stronger.
Bernier has been stellar (per previous installments with Hexy.)
Elkins is a big body, needs to play both sides of the puck.
Azevedo is learning the pro game.
Clifford is a beast.
Schenn has superior hockey sense and compete level.
etc.
None of this changes the fact that Lombardi is with 99% certainty going to sign or otherwise acquire at least (probably exactly) one 25+ year old top-six forward (Frolov or better, maybe Frolov), probably a LW, and one 25+ defenseman; Lombardi is pretty likely to sign or otherwise acquire a bottom-six forward (a Modin-like guy, maybe Modin), but he might just let the prospects handle that. The other four/five forward spots will be filled by four of Richardson, Lewis, Parse, Clune, Elkins, Schenn, Clifford, Moller, Harrold, Cliche or Loktionov; the 14th spot will likely be taken by Ivanans or Westgarth (or a new knuckle-dragger TBD); two d spots will be filled by two of Drewiske, Hickey, Voynov or Muzzin. Bernier and Quick will be the goalies. Ersberg will have been traded by october at the very latest.
If you look at the numbers, there is literally no other option. You can’t sign more than the two or three UFAs I mentioned, because of the cap. And you have to fill the rest of the spots with prospects, again, because of the cap. And we have the best prospects in the league.
If I had to handicap the prospects and other youngsters right now, I would go with:
One or two of Richardson, Parse, Moller, Lewis and Cliche will make it.
One or two of Schenn, Clifford and King will make it.
One or two of Clune, Ivanans, Westgarth and (long shot) Nolan will make it.
Loktionov is a special case. Because if he’s physically ready, then he’ll get his games and room will have to be made in the top six. Maybe he comes up when there’s an injury. Maybe there’s a trade.
Having said what I just said, Schenn, Clifford, Moller, Parse, Loktionov and Lewis have their fate in their own hands. They have the skill level to grab a spot regardless of all other exigencies. I personally think all six will have careers, but odds are against them all sticking with the Kings ultimately. Still, it would be cool.
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josh M Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
@Quisp,
Did you really try and suggest that Richardson might not make the team??
Hes a certain as anyone else on the team….
He proved his worth during the second half of last season and has become a very important part of our team due to his versatility.. he can play wing on the first line or center the 4th line…although he proved he is most effective playing on the 3rd….
the Parse Richardson Simmonds line was our best line for some of the year….
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wavesinair Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
@josh M, I don’t know if it’s what Quisp meant, but Richardson could easily be traded, in which case, he won’t ‘make’ the team. But yeah, he’s an asset no doubt.
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quisp Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 10:34 pm
@josh M,
no i meant more that the others are competing for spots one of which he will fill. i agree with your assessment of richie, except for the part about him having made it as much as anyone else. since the “anyone else” is kopitar, smyth, williams, stoll, brown, simmonds and handzus.
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fsd1 Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
@Quisp,Dude, great post! Thanks for the read.
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luc20rules Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
@Quisp, Why can’t Clifford be the 4th line muscle. I just think its such a waste that the 4th line produces nothing year after year. Clifford-Richardson-Parse line might get 40 goals in a season, and if the 4th line is a real threat the hot line can get more minutes instead of line shuffling, which can still be done if 1 player is clearly looks sluggish. You might say Richardson & Parse scored a good # of goals, but it certainly was not with Ivanans on the ice.
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luc20rules Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Nevermind, I guess Clifford is shrinking, I thought he was 6-3 220 and growing. He is listed at 6-1 206, but maybe that is the stat from when he was drafted last June?
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holly Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
@luc20rules,
Manchester listed him as 6’1 200. That’s the exact same measurements as Bud Holloway. Even difference in body types aside, Clifford is absolutely bigger than Bud. He’s relatively similar in size to Dwight King, perhaps slightly smaller.
My guess would be that he’s 6’2 (maybe give an inch, but definitely not take an inch) and somewhere between 210-220.
quisp Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
@luc20rules,
he totally can be the fourth line muscle. you might have noticed that most of my fantasy lineups for the fall don’t have any enforcer listed. realistically, i think we’re going to have one of the spots reserved for ivanans/westgarth etc until someone else makes them redundant. but in the long term, guys like simmonds, clifford, nolan, clune, muzzin, teubert…hopefully they will make the need for an enforcer obsolete.
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Moondoggie Reply:
May 29th, 2010 at 12:39 am
@Quisp, Based on your analysis I’d take….
Ritche/Parse
Schenn/Clifford
Clune/Westgarth
Hexty’s comments about Westgarth were interesting; he almost looks like a shoe-in to take Ivan’s spot. But the biggest name out there certainly has to be Clifford’s. Talk about taking a gigantic leap! I’d certainly be surprised if, based upon his performance in the playoffs he doesn’t make the team. Naturally we’ll have to see how he does in camp but like you said, camp is really just a review or refresher of what the coaches & staff already know about these guys.
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DougS Reply:
May 29th, 2010 at 1:14 am
@Moondoggie,
In some ways, prospect camp and training camp will be just as interesting as the beginning of the regular season, because it’s gonna be ‘survival of the fittest’ for the young guys who are just about ready.
Last night, someone commented that he can’t wait for October. Heck, I can’t wait for September!
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Quisp Reply:
May 29th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
@Moondoggie,
this is why development camp and rookie camp are my favorite king events all year.
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holly Reply:
May 29th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
@Quisp,
I always say I’m going to fly out for them, but in the end the cost is just too much. Even after attempting to convince my family to just let me use their Marriott Points/Southwest flight vouchers.
Well, one of the reasons they are my favorite is that they are free. Oh, sometimes they charge 5 bucks or something. Once you start having to fly around and pay for hotels and cabs and whatnot, not so worth it. Also, having a little kid, I prefer events that I can walk out of at any time and not have wasted several hundred dollars. (my son has been to only one kings game, but maybe a hundred kings practices or scrimmages.)
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