Dean Lombardi did an interview this morning with a friend of mine, Dustin Nielson, who does the morning show for 1260-AM in Edmonton. Some of the interview covered some familiar ground, but at one point Lombardi was asked about the future of Alexander Frolov, and whether he saw Frolov returning to the Kings or whether it was time to move on. Here’s Lombardi’s answer, followed by a link to the entire interview. Incidentally, I’ll be doing my lengthy interview with Lombardi tomorrow afternoon…
LOMBARDI: “When you talk about building today, it’s certainly different from prior to the lockout. You really get tied in with, `Do you like the player?’ Yes, but do you like him at `X’ price? Because you now have to get the right price, if you’re going to be able to keep your core together. So would we like to keep him? Yes. But if the price is prohibitive, and maybe would prevent us from filling other holes and making sure we keep Doughty and Johnson and all these kids coming through, then you have to walk away. I think you’re probably right on Fro. He’s a good player. I guess at times, like you say, you think he’s capable of more, but he’s still a productive player. But you still now have to really be astute in how you attach a price tag to that, or you’re going to get yourself in trouble down the road, and then all this building we’ve done makes no sense if we can’t keep these young players that have come through our system. So I’m not too optimistic, given what he’s looking for. The other thing we’re confronting here, don’t forget, is the KHL, and they’re offering an awful lot of money, tax-free. It’s almost like the WHL days, where the difference in dollars is huge. It’s not like you can accuse the player and say, `Well, he just wants to take the easy way.’ No. We’re talking significant dollars, in terms of the difference. I talked to him at the end of the year, and I said to myself, `This is no different than when Bobby Hull left.’ I’m sure he wanted to stay in the NHL, but when the money is that much different, you can’t blame him. So you’re also confronting this with Fro, so we’ll see but we’re going to keep our options open.”
Comparing Fro’s situation with Bobby Hull’s seems like a gracious way to say goodbye to me. Definitely a bummer, but not unexpected. It would make even more sense to sign Parse if Fro was leaving as it would open up a spot for Scott if he wants it.
IMHO, I’ll bet Fro goes home to Russia. Even Montreal won’t pay him what he’ll get to go home. Just my prediction.
Good luck Fro!
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USHA#17 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
@Cynic,
Some are suggesting Fro and Kovi will travel together to the KHL. Good life for soft players.
Money, vodka, women and no check hockey!
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kings4queens Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
@USHA#17,
I’ll never forget reading an interview with Kovi a year or two ago and he was asked who he thought the most underrated player in the league was. His answer “Alexander Frolov.”
If the KHL doesn’t require them to be two way players they should be superstar goal scorers and very happy with the simple life.
[Reply]
Verno Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
@kings4queens,
That was a Datsyuk interview. Not Kovi
USHA#17 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
@Cynic,
Let me add that watching a few blogs from other NHL teams discuss the free agent market it appears most are on to the tease that Frolov has become and aren’t interested.
On my end I liked Alex but think I burned out waiting for the “breakthrough” that never happened.
[Reply]
Cynic Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
@USHA#17,
I have to agree. Enigmas are usually only good for a few years on winning teams. We’ve had Fro quit a bit longer and finally made it to the playoffs. Kovy & Fro in Russia on the same team would be SICK. In the NHL, they’d be a money pit.
Waiting for the breakthrough has gotten old. Nice guy, great suits, 3rd line enigma.
[Reply]
USHA#17 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
@Cynic,
He was great among the mediocre and mediocre among the great.
Marty's Knuckles Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 11:49 am
@Cynic, interesting you wrote “quit” in stead of “quite.” Intentional?
Sad to hear, but sort of expected. And doesn’t help my curiosity about who we’re getting to replace him, if anyone…
[Reply]
not surprised…but, yes…it’s sad…
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86 Alexander Frolov – longest tenured Kings is now… Dustin Brown?
The odds on Schenn sticking around just went up, as did the chances of getting a veteran guy to play left wing.
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JJ4Pres Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:57 am
@Will Hutchison,
Couldnt we break Schenn in on wing so he wouldn’t have to be as defensively responsible as a center so he could play top 6 minutes? Put Stoll at center and Brown on the other wing.
Schenn-Stoll-Brown
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I guess the rent on this doghouse is too high.
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I’ve always liked Fro, but he also to me is one of the most frustrating players as well. With his talent he is capable of so much more. I know many like to say well it is the role or who he is playing with, but this has been an issue with him throughout his career with different coaches. It may just be a personality thing with him as the best players tend to have personalities that always seem to get the most out of what talent they have. Also players with less talent become more productive then players maybe more talented to them just based on how hard they work.
I figured he was gone either way going into this past season. Either by trade or letting him walk. While he would be nice to keep the reality is they have more important pieces on the team that they need to make sure they can keep. Considering the year he had numbers wise I’d be a little surprised if he doesn’t go the KHL route just because I can’t imagine any team coming even close to what he could make there.
[Reply]
i not exactly sure how much Fro is asking for but i would not give him more 4 or 5 mil a season…….i dont think he is worth that kind of money…if the price is too high i would say is time to part ways….hey at the end it could be good for both the player and the oraganization…Fro never reached his full potential with the kings….i would have liked to see it but never happened….hey sometimes players need a change of scenery…..at the end i just hope DL makes the right desicion which in turn will benefit the club…just dont let it drag!!!
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Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
@gmo,
I believe the rumor (which we ought not believe) is he was asking for $5MM.
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Dasvidanya tvarish!
Good player, but overrated. Not worth the $$$. No big loss.
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MarkB Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
First of all he is your tovarish, if you would lnow something about Russia you would know that word is no longer in use since August of 1991.
(most likely you were still breast fed at that time).
Second of all, the first person that Kings should get rid of is their “Captain” and GM.
Frolov has been the Most consistent top scorer in the Kings since 2002/2003 season. Yes, last season numbers werer little of , but he still finished in the top 5 on the Team.
Did you forget what happens to every good player that Kings let go? Should I give few names?
Anyway, He is not asking for ridiculous amount of $$$ for a player who paid his dues to this Team, he is the best puck handler in the offensive zone, he holds on to the puck like no other, he is generally not injury prone and did not miss too many games. He has one of the best ice vision on this Team and he truly deserves every penny that he is asking for.
I hope Kings resign him ASAP.
I would hate for him to end up with Ducks (as he wants to stay in SoCal), first game he plays against us he will score 2 or 3 goals easily just to shut up our “GM”. You will see…
Cammy does it to us all the time…..
[Reply]
Crownme87 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@MarkB,
Im sure he was sarcastically saying Tovarish.
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Anjin Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 6:27 am
@MarkB,
I guess my question would be the same one Lombardi asked; Do we sign Frolov now only to lose a Doughty or Johnson later?
No way, Jose
I am a big fan of Frolov and don’t blame him for wanting to get paid but he doesn’t deserve 5M per year.
[Reply]
OneTimer Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:21 am
@MarkB,
Ummm ….. huh?
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jp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:41 am
@MarkB,
Fro is that you?
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fsd1 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:25 am
@MarkB, uh, too much coffee or still pissed aout the quacks season?
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EJ Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@MarkB, If you think that Frolov and Cammellari are part of a championship equation, you certainly do not know much about hockey.
[Reply]
mrk Reply:
May 29th, 2010 at 9:49 am
@EJ,
What’s with these “You must not know about hockey” phrase? Just because they don’t agree with you doesn’t make them hockey ignorant. They just have a different opinion.
jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
@MarkB,
Uhh, Cammi? Mr. -6 in the playoffs even with 13 goals. Use must be talking about differential equations.
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johnjuan Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 10:09 am
@markv
I agree!
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I expected this about as muck as Kovalchuck’s agent saying he has been offered contracts for 2 teams in the KHL for 3 years $30 mill, which is to say I totally expected we’d have a hard time signing either of them and I get a strong KHL vibe on each.
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tantrum4 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:08 pm
@Kris,
I have to disagree. I think these KHL contract offers only help NHL teams who are looking to sign Kovalchuk. Why would he accept $30 million dollars when an NHL team can now offer him $80 million over 10 years? I think his wife and 3 children would rather have the security of a 10 year contract over only 3 years. And an NHL team now can get away with paying him less money per year towards the cap. DO IT DEANO!!
[Reply]
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:20 am
@tantrum4,
Betcha the KHL contract reaches ten years, at…
Wait for it…
…150 million dollars, tax free.
[Reply]
tantrum4 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 10:29 am
@BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy,
Well if that’s the case he’d be stupid not to take it. But I really doubt that a league that has teams folding and aren’t able to pay players their full contracts would offer such a contract. Did anyone not notice that Jiri Hudler signed a 2 year deal with Detroit last week? The KHL can’t be all that great if he leaves after only ONE year…
whatever happened to playing for the LOVE OF THE GAME? i know players have too look out for their on future and that of their families….but jesus nowadays players go where the money is…everyone has become so greedy adn money hungry…..who is this to blame? owners?gms?agents?fans? or a convinations of them all?
[Reply]
tantrum4 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
@gmo,
Are you any different with your career? If a rival company offered you way more money to work for them and it was closer to home, are you telling me you wouldn’t take it? Come on…
[Reply]
Steve S. Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
@tantrum4,
Also, their careers are relatively short. Unlikely that they will ever be able to make money like that the rest of their life, so seems wise to get the dough while you can.
Yes, this can be characterized as greed, but also as pragmatism.
[Reply]
Dan H. Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
@Steve S.,
Add this to the fact that he’s still PLAYING the game he loves…and your points are all moot.
big money and gets to play at home. Pretty clear why such an offer is attractive to him. KHL had him if they wanted. Looks like they do. Still hoping the Kings get him back (at a reasonable price of course) but this isn’t unexpected. A bummer in any case if he leaves. Beats him going to Anaheim though.
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Who knows – maybe DL is doing a little negotiating through the press.
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I would much rather see the money given to JJ. They can keep JJ and Doughty if they play their cards right. We have not seen the best of JJ yet, and having him and Doughty will be huge for this team. Sign those two guys long term, Frolov is a great player but he is not near ad important to this team.
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Trade Zeus as well.
With Schenn comming, Stoll is your third line center. It can be a whole different type of third line with more of a north-south feel to it.
[Reply]
hockeysureshot Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
@Mark 1, Did you watch Zeus play this season? The guy was probably our MVP.
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:53 am
@hockeysureshot,
Don’t get me wrong; Zeus has been a good one this last year; he fits his role well.
I think we now have a glut at the center spot though and even those of us like Zeus have to admit, he is not a power skater by any means. This is a real problem in the north-south game; we saw this against Van.
While some centers can be moved around (Moller is obviously too small for NHL center work) guys like Schenn can’t just be moved around like that without it creating problems in the long run.
54Fighting made some good comments below about Zeus’ salary (its too big for the role he plays).
[Reply]
Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:03 am
@Doc. Mark 1968,
Sorry hockeysureshot: Should have read
“even those of us who like Zeus…”
Thanatossassin Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 10:11 am
@Mark 1,
Would rather see Stoll sent off than Zeus. I’m not sure what series you were watching, but his speed was not a factor when taking down the Sedins. The Sedins scored when he was not on the Ice. Stoll, is a great faceoff guy and has a good shot, but Handzus’ two-way game is much more valuable.
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Okay so I was chatting with a couple of buddies the other day and the subject of the draft came up. I decided to throw this out to get a reaction…
LA trades Thomas Hickey, Colten Tuebert, the rights to Alexandre Frolov our First round pick and maybe a second/third round to
Edm for their first overall pick
Now I know what you are thinking, why would Edmonton do that…well hear me out.
Coming up in the Edmonton system are two very high prospects in Jordan Eberle and Magnus pari..whatever both of whom I would bet are going to make the club next year. What Edmonton does not have, to my knowledge, is a bonafide blue chip prospect on defense outside of some kid named Petry.
The first overall pick is likely going to be Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin both forwards.
Taylor Hall is a left wing which this organization needs badly and Hickey and Tuebert are the blue chip prospects that Edmonton needs badly.
The trade fills the need of both teams, and if Edmonton can find a way to sign Frolov, good on them.
What do you guys think?
[Reply]
Darrell Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
@Arron, If they did this Edmonton brass wouldn’t make it to the airport alive, and even if they did the gate agents would kill them. Dream on.
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Arron Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
@Darrell,
If people didn’t dream no one would win the Stanley Cup.
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luc20rules Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
@Arron, It makes sense, but the way DL pulls suprise draft picks are you sure he wouldn’t pick a D-man?
As for Fro I will miss him, the Kings will too he did alot off the stat sheet. Granted, I would probably agree with DL on the price thing. Fro was great on the stopper line, I just wonder if we have someone that can fill that void, go UFA, or trade.
[Reply]
Joel Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
@Arron, If I were Edmonton, I wouldn’t consider dealing the #1 to the Kings unless they included Schenn or Bernier in the package. That’s why I don’t believe a deal like this would be possible.
[Reply]
Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
@Joel, @aaron
Like Joel said. The offer they might take for the #1 pick would start with Schenn and Bernier, and get sweetened from there.
[Reply]
Steve McQueen Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
@Arron, so essentially your trading 4 1st round picks for one.Hall/Seguin aren’t generational players like Ovi or Crosby. Even Mike Milbury wouldn’t do that deal.
[Reply]
Arron Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
@Steve McQueen,
Actually I would be swapping first round picks, trading a first round pick that we likely won’t see in a Kings jersey next season and then trading two first round picks who may or may not make it. So it boils down to a 2 for 1. The second or third round would be to sweeten the deal.
[Reply]
Moondoggie Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
@Steve McQueen, Oh, I believe he would!!!
Seriously, four first rounders for the Oil’s first this year???? Have we all gone mad here????
[Reply]
DougS Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
@Arron,
I don’t think there’s any point in trying to trade Frolov’s rights at this point. Waste of time, unless you really believe that there will be a bidding war for him. Otherwise, why would be it be worth trading an asset just to get a couple of weeks’ jump on negotiating with him.
I fear that there will be one GM out there who is willing to bid more than the Kings for Fro, but I don’t see something so competitive that you would want to trade for a small window of exclusivity.
[Reply]
OneTimer Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:28 am
@Arron,
I won’t slather on the extra mustard to my reply, but lemme just say that I personally would NOT be pleased AT ALL if the Kings did that deal. Your follow-up analogy also seems (imo) like a waste of assets, and at a time when both the organization (and the young players involved) simply doesn’t need to waste assets. Giving up more prospects on speculation to get less prospects in return? … um, no thanks.
Cheers.
[Reply]
Darrell Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
@OneTimer, You guys are over-valuing our assets. Oiler fans have been drooling over Hall ALL SEASON, and he will be a great player. You’re offering two picks that may never pan out, a mid level pick, and the rights to someone who the Oilers will never be able to sign (if the Kings can’t sign him, what makes you think the Oilers will?).
Quisp’s deal makes more sense for the Oilers, and makes no sense for the Kings.
[Reply]
I thought Fro was one of ” these young players that have come through our system.”? So was Cammi, so was Lubo……….
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Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
@Lucky,
That was Dave Taylor’s system. Remaining Taylor products: Parse, Brown, Quick, Kopitar, Frolov.
The reality is, young or not, kids get the big bucks early now, and you can have only so many of those contracts.
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luc20rules Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
@Quisp, Sad, but very true. Thats why I was so happy when DL signed Brown long term for a good price a couple of years ago.
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DougS Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
@Lucky,
DL signed Lubo to a rather expensive long-term contract, and then he had a bad year. Only after that was he traded.
Cammy asked for the impossible and gave DL the distinct impression that re-signing him was highly unlikely. DL traded him rather than lose him for nothing. In fact, you could make the case that DL showed Cammy no less loyalty than Cammy showed the Kings.
I firmly believe that DL deep in his heart of hearts want to re-sign Frolov. But the reality of the salary cap haunts every GM in this league. Just ask Junior Bowman when he has to tear up the Hawks this summer just to get under the cap.
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jp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:51 am
@DougS, At least Cammi was upfront about his intentions. I have much more respect for him than I do Blake.
[Reply]
poe Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 10:28 am
@jp, ditto
DougS Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
@jp,
True enough. I was simply responding to a comment that suggests that Lombardi is not loyal to players who came up within the Kings’ organization. I used Cammy simply to make the point that loyalty cuts both ways.
Darrell Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
@Lucky, I still don’t know who to believe in that Lubo deal.. If you believe DL at the post-trade BWTGM, he said it was all about the big contract (you know, the one HE negotiated?). But if you believe the DL on Edmonton Radio, it was all about clearing salary to make the team more attractive to the Celtics owners. I think we came out of it OK with Stoll and Greene, but I hate that we gave Lubo to the Ducks.
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RLane420 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
@Lucky,
and all 3 are soft.
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The writing has been on the wall for a while….Good luck in the KHL Fro.
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Echoing JB’s comments above, as I read the quote the most striking thing to me is that apparently DL saw enough of JJ’s play in the second half of the season that he wants to sign him long-term.
To my recollection, the statement of, “…making sure we keep Doughty and Johnson and all these kids coming through” is the clearest statement he has made to wanting JJ to be part of the core–especially after the mid-season dust-up.
[Reply]
54FIGHTING Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
@Stealth,
If I’m DL I try to sign both Doughty and JJ on July 1st. For Doughty I’d look at a Duncan Keith/Patrick Kane contract (I like the Keith one with the lower cap hit), for JJ – I just don’t know but I wouldn’t wait until the year is over and continue to see his improved play drive his price up. Also, I would like to see an increment structure to the salaries – I don’t know why they need big money right away in the 1st or 2nd year and think this was a big mistake with Kopitar and his contract. Why couldn’t they have started 1 million lower on that 1st year? I’ll never know.
[Reply]
The intention to re-sign him was never there. DL has been counting down the days, in my book.
Here’s to moving on to the ‘bigger and better’ for LA.
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RLane420 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
@Ersberg, Then why wouldnt he just trade him at last years deadline. Do you think we couldnt get somthing for him.
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Gogo Marleau.
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Hmm, let’s see. The draft is in Los Angeles. The league would like nothing better than something “big” to happen regarding its L.A. host team. Could this all add up to some kind of blockbuster announcement on draft day on national TV? I would bet yes. But are any of the top draft prospects ready to step in and contribute next season?
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Arron Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
@Cowboy Bill,
Taylor Hall
[Reply]
EJ Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:39 am
@Arron, while Hall is very likely to succeed in the NHL, he’s not a slam dunk. To give away assets like the ones which you detailed in your earlier post to obtain him are unrealistic.
[Reply]
54FIGHTING Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
@Cowboy Bill,
Yes, there are several but not at #19 overall.
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If we can’t get Kovi or Marleau should we go after a one year fix like Rob Blake-D with a wink and hand shake about retiring his jersey, and someone like Teemu Selane-LW then go after UFA next years crop looks better, before trading? That would also give us an opportunity to look at the prospects more before pulling a major trade. I would think those moves would fill holes and should be mid-range or bargain signings and also leave a possiblity of making a big trade at the deadline of course it would be price is right for any signing. The more I see Schenn, I think he is the real deal, and Clifford just kicks Bu## and collects points and names. Muzzin look to have good potential.
As much as I think with the right UFA or trade we can make a good run, but we also need to get a look at many prospects at the NHL level not full season, but the less than 10 games before being reclassified to evaluate players that have shown it all at the AHL level.
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Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
@luc20rules,
Rob Blake will never play for the Kings again. Nor should he.
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54FIGHTING Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
@Quisp,
a loud ‘AMEN!’ is heard right after Quisp says this.
[Reply]
ducksuck Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
@Quisp,
agreed rob blake is not the answer at all!!, unless he would do it for Parse’s contract
[Reply]
Ersberg Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 6:47 am
@Quisp, The Kings need to show up with a better line-up then what you’ve listed. The way you have it now smells awfully like another first round exit.
Smyth simply can’t be our first line LW going into next season. He doesn’t have the gas anymore.
luc20rules Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
@Quisp, You can sub in whatever vets you want. I just chose Blake and Selane because they live locally and would only seek a one year deal. I was looking more at the overall strategy. Of course we want to make a run next year, but is it upgrade with the right guy(s) right now for the long term. My guess is DL will do the long term if the price & fit is right, but if that doesn’t happen is there a short term fix?
[Reply]
Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
@luc20rules,
Yes: long term if the price is right. i.e. UFAs.
Plan B: long term via trade
Short term fix: I guess that’s either a trade a la Smyth with a contract that expires sooner rather than later, or else (not exactly a fix, but) seeing which prospects rise to the occasion.
There really are only a handful of open spots. We need a top six forward, and a top four defenseman. Then we need one of Hickey, Voynov or Muzzin to step up (yes, or Teubert or…), and one or two of Schenn and Clifford to make it. I don’t think anyone is going to be disappointed by this line-up:
Smyth/Kopitar/Williams
UFA/Stoll/Brown
Schenn/Handzus/Simmonds
Clifford/Richardson/Parse
(Clune, Harrold)
Scuderi/Doughty
Johnson/UFA (Volchenkov, etc.)
Hickey-Voynov/Greene
Muzzin/Drewiske
Bernier and Quick
Honing their genius in Manchester: Moller, Loktionov, Kaunisto, Nolan, Wudrick (?), King, Teubert, whichever of Hickey-Voynov doesn’t make the big club, Zatkoff and Jones.
Gone but not forgotten: Frolov (?), Jones, Modin (though I would consider re-signing), Halpern (don’t let the door hit you on the way out), Ersberg (trade: before draft or after?), Ivanans (?), Sean O’Donnell (although maybe he comes back for one more year; that would be just fine).
I wonder if DL is going to re-sign Trevor Lewis. I hope so. I think he will.
54FIGHTING Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:56 am
@Quisp,
I agree and like those lines somewhat. We are starting to get too many ‘bad’ contracts, the good news is that most come off in the next year or two.
Bad contracts:
Smyth – 6.250 is huge even if we aren’t paying him that.
Zeus – that 4 million is way too much for a 3rd line center. There’s only 1 3rd line center in the league worth that money and he plays for Pittsburg.
Stoll – his contract is just about the same as Zeus and he’s really a 3rd line guy, so see above.
Williams – 3.5 for 1/2 a season. I really hope he comes back next year with a chip on his shoulder for what happened during the Playoffs but otherwise this is his last year in LA.
Worst contract currently on the team:
Green – love the guy but you can’t pay your 3rd pairing D-man almost 3 million a year. You just can’t.
Moondoggie Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
@Quisp, Thank you Quispie….and amen!
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:19 am
@Moondoggie,
Agree with Quisp’s lines for the most part, except I give Lewis a good chance to make the team over Clifford.
I could see Moller being packaged at the draft, simply because he is not as good as we need him to be to fill a top 6 role yet, and we need to make some space in the system.
54 Fighting: I disagree about Zeus. I think he is better defensively than Jordan Staal (smarter, maybe not as athletic) and he is just as good offensively as Jordan. I am happy with what we pay him.
I am also happy paying Ryan Smyth that much just because he is Ryan Smyth.
jofa6000 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
@luc20rules, blake should be banned from l.a.
[Reply]
Gayle Reply:
May 29th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
@jofa6000, Forget about Rob Blake–he is now going through his sunset years.
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I wish he did something in the playoffs then we could be arguing why he should stay. Fro had a terrible year he has the potential, he showed it with his 30 goals, but with stoll, williams, scuderi, brown, and doughty all being paid at least 3.1 million and both williams and doughty or free agents next season i don’t see how the Kings could keep a guy like Frolov or Modin when they are trying to keep the CORE players around. Also smyth and kopi both make over 6.2 so next off season i would think doughy would be up there to. Really frustrating to see fro walk and not get anything for him, but happy to see DL still working to make, hopefully, a stanley cup winning team. Chicago’s first time in the playoffs was last season now they are in the finals and should win just like the Kings if they stay healthy and pick up some more solid defense.
Also a new defense coach is needed, but hope who ever replaces harpo can “fit” in to the system. My picks are Larry Robinson (soft spoken like TM) or OD (if he retires) because he already knows the system and gets along with everyone.
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Cynic Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
@ducksuck,
OD transitioning to defensive coach makes some sense and would open a spot for a prospect. Not sure if he should work in the minors a bit first though before he gets his shot at such an important position.
An interesting thought though.
[Reply]
Kevin Y Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
@ducksuck,
I would love to see OD as a coach for this team. I think he’d be PERFECT. The players really respect him, and I don’t think he gets enough credit for the way the defense has come along the last two years (yes, I said the same thing about TM yesterday).
As far as Robinson goes, I don’t see it. He was our coach when I started following the Kings as an 8 year old back in 1998, but that’s all I really know about him. And he’s only coached one season (kinda; 32 games) since 2002.
Seem familiar? Yeah, this season was the Kings first playoffs since 2002, and that seems like a LONG time ago because, well, it is. I think Robinson has just been out of the game too much.
[Reply]
RICH-
I sent you an e-mail a few days back. Did you get it? Will you be there tomorrow?
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Every summer always crazy blockbuster deal rumors. We are in the salary cap era as much as a Marleau or a Kovalchuck sounds great and would be a nice fit, Kovalchuck and Frolov could ask for a ton of money because they are already getting offers from the KHL. And Marleau is a GREAT player, but if the Kings were to get him who do you not re-sign next season?? I mean the Kings only have Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds, Williams, and Handzus that are all free agents next season.
I don’t see DL screwing up this team just to give it a shot for one season. He kinda did when he kept Frolov knowing that he wouldn’t re-sign him. But if he did, then all the fans would be saying the Kings could have won the cup if frolov was still on the team. It’s not 100% that DL won’t sign Marleau, but not very realistic at all.
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Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
@ducksuck,
You forgot Bernier and Moller.
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54FIGHTING Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
@Quisp,
Come on Quisp, how much do you really think they’ll get since neither has been able to stick in the NHL. Quick is only getting 1.8 after proving he’s the #1.
[Reply]
Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
@54FIGHTING,
You’re kidding, right?
When people say so-and-so “has not been able to stick in the NHL,” usually they’re talking about the Lauri Tukonens of the world, not players like Moller, who even the rosiest projections didn’t even have out of juniors yet. The kid has played more NHL games than any Kings pick in the last six years, outside of Doughty, Kopitar, Simmonds and Quick.
And Bernier? Hasn’t stuck. Yeah. Don’t get me started. All he did was win all three of his NHL starts this year, 6 points without which we might well have dropped right out of the playoff picture. I put the odds of him not sticking next season at just about zero.
Quick is getting $1.8MM because his contract was negotiated when he had played about a half a season (i.e. before he had proved anything).
I love Quick. I am pro-Quick. But I don’t think saying he’s “the #1″ means anything. As I have said a million times, LaBarbera was “the #1″ right up until the day of his last game with the Kings. Terry Murray said so, so it must be true. Quick will only stay #1 if he plays better than Bernier. The # doesn’t mean anything.
The RFA contracts for Moller and Bernier will depend entirely on what they do this year. If Moller scores 20 goals, he’ll get some good money. If he doesn’t, or if he stays in Manchester most of the year, he’ll get less. If Bernier plays 30-35 games and has the better numbers, he’ll get somewhere in the $2-3MM range.
I think it’s remarkable anyone could think of those guys as afterthoughts.
54FIGHTING Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
@ducksuck,
You don’t resign those 2 players you already mentioned (Williams/Zeus) or you sign them for less – a lot less.
As far as Doughty (and I said it above) but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Duncan Keith contract for him (5.5 cap average) which is only 2 million more than his cap hit now. Not that much. Very similar players right now since they are both up for the Norris.
Simmonds – how much of a raise are you seeing this guy get? JJ went from ELC to 1.5 for 2 years and although we all love Simmonds he isn’t going to break the bank.
JJ – I just don’t know (see my above comments).
Unknowns – Cap – is it going up? I don’t see it going down with Versus having their best ratings ever. CBA? What new cap limits will we get? How about contract buyouts? Luxary tax? ‘Larry Bird’ rule?
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Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
@54FIGHTING,
New CBA will apply three seasons from now. Cap next year will almost certainly stay the same within $200K one way or the other. Ratings on Vs. don’t mean anything. Especially since ratings for this season don’t generate revenues for the NHL this season. They generate revenues for VS..
Simmonds will get $2-3.5MM depending on whether he scores 15 goals this season or 25.
Doughty’s cap hit includes his bonuses, and we don’t know how much of it he earned. he’s going to get $6-7MM, I bet. he’s better than duncan keith. He’s 20 years old. he is a generational talent. and he may well win the norris, which would make him the youngest winner in history, except for that bobby orr guy, who did it three months earlier, I think it is.
Hopefully Handzus will get re-signed for around $2MM. Williams I agree will walk away, if he isn’t traded first.
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
@Quisp, I really like the breakdown here, but I think I would be willing to go to about 3Mil/yr on Handzus. I think the amount he does on the Defensive Stopper Line, faceoffs, PP, & PK is underrated. In alot of ways, I think the 3rd Line was the best performing line last year. They mostly went against the best opposing line and they protected the lead into the 3rd period what 26 of 28 games?
Williams will likely be traded early or walk unless he stays healthy and has a career year.
I think Doughty will get $6-7MM. I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened this summer.
My take on decoding Lombardi:
1) He didn’t say anything. At least, not anything he hasn’t said before, re Fro or otherwise. The usual “at the right price” thing. Which is of course exactly right (if you ask me).
2) I don’t think Lombardi uses the press in a totally wily, manipulative way, but he knows the effect these quotes have. Announcing Parse and saying, hey I don’t know what’s going to happen with Fro is essentially a shot across the bow. It says, in no uncertain terms, I am ready to move on, it’s up to you.
3) Lombardi has, and clearly has had for some time, a number in his head at which Fro gets signed. (he’s got a number for Kovalchuk and Marleau, too.) I think the Fro number is $3.75MM/two years. I might also offer $4MM/one year. Give him a year to prove himself. If he scores 35-40 goals (which I thought he would do this year, damn you Fro!), then he’s driven his own price up. If he doesn’t, he can test the “waters.”
4) The KHL is in total disarray. If Kovalchuk or Frolov or any other player in his prime goes to the KHL in this climate, they are, frankly, idiots. Even the rumor mill knows this: thus, the “one year deal” rumor.
5) If Frolov had actually made a decision, we would know about it. Maybe he has and we’re about to find out. But if the door was closed on Frolov, Lombardi would say, no, he’s not coming back. Why be coy?
6) Frolov now knows what the number is Lombardi is offering. He knows he likes LA. He knows he liked being in the playoffs. And I believe he genuinely wants to be here. He has no reason to rush any decision, for a couple of weeks anyway.
I would not be surprised either way. But I don’t think it’s “unlikely” at this point. It’s just as likely as any other outcome, and more likely than some.
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54FIGHTING Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
@Quisp,
Good summary. I too would like to see Doughty signed and already mentioned what I thought he should get.
Can’t agree more with your sentiments on KHL.
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Moondoggie Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
@Quisp, I love you commentaries and I had 3.5mil in my head for Fro as well, fair price for fair market value. But…I think Fro is history. Someone will gamble, roll the dice and probably pay 4.5 mil, my guess. And Fro will probably score around 20 goals for his new team and continue to be an enigma. That’s where I like the Parse signing; the older and more experienced he gets, the better he’s going to be. Look for Parse to have a Richardsonian type of breakout year next year.
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DougS Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
@Moondoggie,
That is my fear, also. A league in which Glen Sather still has a job as GM is league in which someone is bound to overpay for UFAs. I also agree that a change of scene will probably not change Frolov.
But I also agree with Quisp in that there is rather less to what DL is saying than meets the eye. He’s just setting up the room in which the negotiations will take place, making sure the sun is in the other guy’s eyes, etc. No real negotiations will take place for another month or so. And Fro will not be on his way out until he actually signs with another team.
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Quisp Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
@Moondoggie,
You are probably right.
I do, however, think it’s in Fro’s slightly quirky character to turn down more money from Toronto or Montreal in order to stay in LA. He is, actually, the only player I’ve ever heard convincingly say he wants to stay here during his contract year. he wasn’t phoning it in. I believed him. I also don’t think he really understands this whole “contract year” thing.
But yeah, probably the writing is on the wall.
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DougS Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
@Quisp,
I get the same vibe off of Fro as you do. I agree that the importance of the contract year didn’t sink in with him, either because he really is that flaky, or because the chance to maximize his earning potential isn’t that important to him.
The problem, I think, is that it’s not just about him and what he wants. It’s about what advice his agent (and whoever else is in the mix) will give him. As a baseball fan, I’ve seen super agents like Scott Boras run roughshod through MLB. Fro seems like a passive personality, in that he is susceptible to stronger personalities giving him advice. And it’s not in his agent’s best interest for him to take less money to stay in LA, no matter how happy that would make him.
BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:33 am
@Quisp,
On the KHL:
I believe the KHL is the “Developmental League” for the Russian 2014 Olympic Team. The twin failures this year (at the Olympics and the World Championships) have raised the stakes for the Russians.
The Russian Hockey elite will strive to bring as many of the stars they need together to hone their game as a unit for 2014. The question will be, who? Fro was as big a dissapointment to the Russians as he was for the Kings, at the recent World Championships. If they think him important for 2014 he will be brought into the fold and nurtured. If they think he is not tough enough, then he will be on his own. The KHL was a great place for him before the Worlds; now, I wonder.
Kovalchuk, on the other hand, is a definite for 2014. Fro’s path may or may not diverge from Kovi’s this summer. It will be interesting to watch…
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lakingsnews.com has this take on the Lombardi interview: Click on the link – http://www.lakingsnews.com/2010/05/26/free-agent-preview-sasha/
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It was pretty clear at the begining of the season that the only way Fro was going to stick around was to have a monster year and prove himself worthy of contract he desires.
I was supprised that Dean didn’t move him before the trade deadline… I thought even a mid round draft pick would have been enough.
Now Fro walks away and we have nothing to show for his time here except the sometimes exhilarating… often times frustrating memories of enigma that is Fro.
Best of luck where ever you end up Fro!
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Joel Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
@Desert King, I don’t necessarily agree. While it would have been nice to get something for Fro before the deadline, remember that the Kings’ hold on a playoff spot at that time was tenuous at best. They were not playing good hockey, and if they happened to slip out of the playoffs this season, it would have been a disaster for the psyche of this young team, not to mention the season ticket holders.
In hindsight, I still would have kept Fro for the remainder of the season even if it means the loss of a good player for nothing.
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Seems a little disingenuous from a GM who paid Blake, Handzus, Stoll, and Cloutier as much as he did…
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Anonymous Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
@Garrett,
If you have been following the KINGS the last 4 years, it should be obvious that we are not in the same phase as when these players were brought in.
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Garrett Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
@, god I hate when people say things like “if you’ve been watching you’d know” to try and make themselves sound so much smarter. I have been watching. I didn’t say there wasn’t a reason but it still seems disingenuous. Those contracts may have been necessary to make sure the team reached the salary floor, but now having players be as overpayed as they are just makes it that much harder to sign guys like Frolov and in the longer term, Johnson, Hickey, Bernier, etc…
[Reply]
luc20rules Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 10:03 pm
@Garrett, we haven’t been near the salary floor for quite a while. Are Cap Space last year the Kings were always more than half way at 50.5 Mil at the start of the season toward the Max 56.8 Mil rather than toward the Minimum Cap 40.8 Mil.
I’d like to see Lombardi move the rights to Frolov for a conditional mid-round pick. The Kings might not be willing to pay Fro enough to stay in the NHL but I wouldn’t be surprised if another NHL squad would be -they don’t have to match the KHL just offer enough to keep him in North America and if he doesn’t sign the “conditional” doesn’t kick in.
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Bye bye fro….
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Good to see DL keep mentioning how important it is to keep JMFJ.
After the olympics and the playoffs, I am a believer. He turned it up for both series and you could really see what he is made of. He made some awesome plays in the playoffs and gave it everything he had every shift. Jack is one hell of a competitor and must be signed long term. Him and Drew are gonna give us one of the best PP in the league for years.
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I like what Fro brigns to the team, but I am not sure I see a fit with the Kings. Sure, with Zeus and Simm we have the best third line in the league. But, in some systems Fro can play on a first line and score 30 goals a year.
On a related subject, I’d like to see soem of the kids get a real shot next year, especially on Left Wing. With the 5 year plan ahead of schedule I am afraid that DL will move too quickly into “let’s win this year” mode and our ripe prospects will not be harvested.
Rich — Can you ask DL if he is feeling pressure to bring in FAs to make a big run next year, since it is his contract year? Can you also ask if he feels there is enough depth in the organization that he could combine picks for trade to move up the draft board (quality over quanity)?
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
@jet,
Zeus and Simm better than Bolland and Ladd?
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Old Time Hockey Reply:
May 26th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
@Doc. Mark 1968, here are Bollards stats for the season
Regular Season 39 6 10 16 5 28 1 0 0 52 11.5
And here are Ladds
Regular Season 82 17 21 38 2 67 0 0 1 148 11.5
Here are Zeus
Regular Season 81 20 22 42 4 38 5 1 6 117 17.1
And here are Simmonds
Regular Season 78 16 24 40 22 116 0 0 2 127 12.6
And you are saying Bolland and Ladd are better???? Not even close
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Doc. Mark 1968 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:42 am
@Old Time Hockey,
Remember though;
Bolland missed most of the season with back surgery!!
Speaking just of the center spot, I was thinking specifically of the difference between what Zeus and Bolli were able to do against the Whale during the play-offs.
I’ve always liked Fro. And yet, he also always made me want to rip my hair out. As I’m sure you guys can tell, I tend to like guys who’s character and passion is apparent on the ice. When Fro was in a good mood, he played well. And when he was in a bad mood, he played okay but didn’t care.
I’d rather see a guy who always plays every shift like it’s his first and last get a shot.
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Quisp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 3:58 am
@holly,
He certainly can look like he “doesn’t care.” I hesitate to say that’s what it is. He strikes me as someone who just isn’t that demonstrative. Also, he does (seemingly) effortlessly what most players can’t do at all. And (possibly the most infuriating of all for fans and coaches) he tends to smile when he screws up. It’s not really a smile though. It’s not “ooh wee I’m so happy.” It really is more “oh ****.” My son (age 6) does this, and it drives me crazy, or did, until I realized it was just kind of a weird defensive maneuver. A stress response. he has the same smile when a call doesn’t go his way. “What just happened??”
Not every player looks like he’s playing as hard as he’s playing.
I really hope he stays and it works out for him. But if it’s not going to work out for him, I hope he doesn’t stay. Work that one out!
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Quisp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 4:00 am
Oops.
At the end of the big paragraph, I switched from my kid back to Fro. My kid doesn’t smile when a call doesn’t go his way. He acts more like Avery.
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@Quisp,
I’ve got a stepson with the same, infuriating habit… He smiles under stress. The thing about that, though, is the intent. It is all about charm. My stepson is very handsome, but shy. The girls go all ga-ga for him, but he has the motivation of drying paint. The girls reward the sheepish, ‘Oops’ smile with, “That’s all right… I’ll make it better!”
The smile hides the pain. After awhile, the pain is not even felt. Numbness takes its place. There’s always a band-aid of someone’s approval to cover the mistake.
What’s disrupted is the normal learning cycle. Pain produces change in behavior, because pain HURTS. In my stepson’s case, I can never make it painful for him, so he never changes. His mother and his girlfriend protect him from all the world’s boogiemen. Some guys have all the luck…
[Reply]
jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
@Quisp,
You are lucky your son does that. I have coached many kids who make a mistake and don’t let it go. Then that play affects them the entire game. The smile or laugh is his way of letting that play go. He will be better for it in the long run. Trust me on this one.
[Reply]
holly Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
@Quisp,
I just wonder if the appearance of not caring has translated into actually not really caring. I’m not saying that I think Fro doesn’t care about hockey at all, but he wasn’t really held accountable for his nonchalance until this season. It’d be interesting to see where Fro would be now if we’d seen him being held accountable from the start. Until he was scratched this season and Murray spoke to his frustrations with him, I don’t know that we’ve really seen it addressed in a point-blank, head on fashion. Obviously, we don’t know what has been said to Fro in previous seasons, but it’d be interesting to think of where he could be if the situations were different.
The one thing I will say is that the only player I’ve really witnessed with that same level of kind of a ‘I do what I do, when I do it’ attitude was Dan Cloutier. Now, I know that you don’t want a goalie to be easily rankled, but the guy was either showing no response at ALL to being scored on or pounding on someone for minor infractions.
I know that each player has his own personality and way of dealing with things, but it’s been awhile since I’ve detected any kind of fire in Fro.
[Reply]
jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
@Quisp,
Your son is finding his way to let the mistake go. It is great that he has this ‘release’ mechanism. I have coached many kids who have not found a way to get past the mistake and they carry it with them for the entire game. Trust me on this one, your son is ahead of the game. Hey, Brett Hull stuck around the NHL for a few games.
[Reply]
jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
@jet, Hey, my earlier reply was not up there before. Sorry for the double post.
Anyway, if you son acts like Avery, forget everything I said.
quisp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
@jet,
he doesn’t really act like avery.
I always felt Frolov would turn it on…
…but he hasn’t. Right now, where we are along our development, we can’t wait for players to turn on the light switch. And we certainly can’t pay him as if it’s gonna turn on and STAY on.
I think Frolov is gone. At the salary he’s gonna ask for, no way he has earned $4.5M. Heck, Handzus scored more goals than he did, and his role wasn’t to score. Frolov’s was.
Frolov didn’t have a good season in a contract year. I’d be surprised if the Kings offer him the $4M that he made this year. Frolov wants that money, but he’s not getting it from the Kings.
Only way he’s a King, IMO, is if it’s in a sign-and-trade, or if he absolutely has no other NHL options. And even then, he’ll gladly go to the KHL. And I think we should let him.
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Clearly, losing Frolov would be a setback…IF our identity as a hockey club is going to be a Cycling Team.
I think that’s the style of play that’s emerging & if that’s the case, there’s NOT a better forward in hockey! His work in the corners & behind the net (all you that call him “soft”, wake up!) is nothing less than Herculean.
So, it would be quite a void we’d have to fill. I’m not saying we can’t…just that we don’t have anybody in our system with Fro’s unique skill set. (Unless Schenn is a stud in the corner’s? But we want him playing center, yeah?)
And Frolov’s not even 28 yet.
But he also needs to understand, he MUST take a home town discount if he wants to win The Cup!
[Reply]
tullskull Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:09 am
@John,
John I would say the Sedin’s are better than Fro with regard to cycling but yes I wish we could keep him.
Schen is not the same type of player and will not be able to do the same things that Fro does but he will still be a solid player. He is a better passer and playmaker and has a nice little mean streak.
I would ask Fro to take 1yr @ 3.25M and see how he responds.
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John Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
@tullskull,
Well…they are TWO people…
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Frolov is worth 5 mil. If Handzus is worth 4, Fro is worth 5. If Fro can score 30-35 and play a bigger role, he’s a good buy. Yhink about it, you could pay Kovi 10 mil and have him MAYBE score 40-50 or you could have Fro and another guy and score 60 goals and scare the other team whenever either guy is on the ice. NO BODY KEEPS THE PUCL LIKE THIS GUY. Pay him 3.5 and if he scores 30 give him a total of 5. If he scores 40 give him a total of 6 mil. Is that allowed?
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Quisp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 3:49 am
@Adam,
On some days, I totally agree with you re your Kovi/Fro math.
Sadly, no, you can’t do incentivized contracts except for entry-level contracts (e.g. Doughty) or old-timers (35+).
However, if you pay him $3.5MM/one year and he scores 40, then he’ll get his $5-6MM.
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:32 am
@Quisp, Its a moot point, because Fro will not accept 3.5M, his agent wont let him.
He is nowhere near worth 6..
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tullskull Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:27 am
@Adam,
Sorry but I can’t agree. Zeus is my MVP. He is consistent and does so many little things that Fro wouldn’t even think of. And he makes other players better, and he’s a teacher. He scores dirty goals and goes to the front of the net. He is never out of position and he is smart. He can compensate for his lack of quickness with his hockey intelligence. My only complaint is he is a little too finesse minded in his passing.
Yes Fro can hang on to the puck which is a great asset WHEN WE HAVE THE LEAD! The problem is his creativity. Everyone knows what he is going to try to do. He probably took as many shots this year with his back to the goal as he did facing it! If he would just try to keep his head up when he does his wrap-a rounds he would notice how often someone is open on the weak side of the play,……. but he doesn’t.
I do hope we can keep him though. I really do like him and actually think he has the kind of attitude where he might be willing to take a discount to stay.
[Reply]
Typical! Sure…get rid of Fro because he underperformed on a team of underperformers and non-quality linemates for several years.
The guy is a gifter scorer, but they made him a puck control guy in the corners with nobody to pass to. Get him someone to pass to that can bury the puck and he’ll be worth the 5-6 mil.
Can’t hold For responsible for the fact that there was nobody on the team to bury the puck.
[Reply]
BringBackTheShieldJersey Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:10 am
@shades, “Gifted Scorer”?? Frolov and his shit-eating grin after missing yet another break-away is in my top three things I hate about Frolov. Another would be his disinclination to take the puck to the front of the net. Also in the mix is how poorly he produced in the playoffs.
On a lower tier of complaints are his inability to check, how often he gets knocked down, and his tendency to cherry-pick.
Should’ve traded him last season.
[Reply]
Stuart Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:30 am
@BringBackTheShieldJersey, but Frolov is just one of many on our beloved team who show a “disinclination to take the puck to the front of the net.” That’s why our team is SOFT. Kopi doesn’t do it, either. If he did, our #1 PP line would score at an incredible clip.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:31 am
@Stuart, They did Stuart, our PP was in the top 10 all year, and was #1 in the playoffs… please explain your point because to me the PP insult makes zero sense
Stuart Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 10:04 am
@VanKingsFan, our PP numbers in the playoffs are a little misleading because we had Van’s number and we were in RL’s head. Had we advanced, I don’t think we would have sustained those numbers. What I meant was that at times, and for the most part all season, our #1 PP was stale/stagnant. Not very much movement. And even though we were top 10, if Kopi could’ve drove the net rather than staying half-wall we would’ve been top 3 and seated 4.
nykingfan Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 8:33 am
@shades,
Actually he underperformed on the best Kings team he’s ever played on and continued under-performing during our brief playoff run.
He’s played on all 4 lines over the past couple of years. Stop making excuses for a guy who just hasn’t lived up to his ability.
[Reply]
VanKingsFan Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:34 am
@nykingfan,
Someone else said it best up top. He looks great on a bad team, and looks mediocore on a great team.
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nykingfan Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
@VanKingsFan,
Perfect description!
I wouldn’t mind seeing Fro kept at third line $. Beyond that, I’d say bye-bye. I’d rather the money go to JJ, Doughty, Bernier, and keep room for manuevers at the trade deadline. Fro is perfect in the third line stopper role with Zeus and Meat Train. I would like to see Parse given the same chance on L1 or L2 that the Teddy the Purse was given. Even after these playoffs, I’m not sold on Marleau (not as bad as Joe Thornton, but still). I believe Kovi will destroy any shot at long term competiveness. What I’m hoping for, is that DL can balance Cup wins with longevity; an eventual line up of Smyth/Kopi/Williams (or trade or FA), Parse/ Schenn/Brown, Fro/Zeus/Simmer, Clifford/Richardson/Moller-Clune, Doughty/Scuderi, JJ/Muzzin, Greene/Voynov-Hickey-Teubert, Bernier/Quick. We’re stocked on D, loaded on bottom six forwards, but short on blue-chip top sixers. I’m thinking DL must make a trade for a top six. However it shakes out, I have great faith in DL. I also agree winning the Cup would be good, but striving for one-and-done should give way to sustained greatness. I also think had we a hot goalie in the playoffs, we were good enough to make it to the Conference Finals. Quick just needed a pulse to beat Luongo.
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Oh yeah, thanks for all of your great work this season, Rich. You too, Quisp, Waves. How’s my previous post for a bunch of non-sequiters strung together? Sorry, it’s late and I’m feeling goofy.
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If Frolov was such a gifted scorer, why did he miss so many breakaways? Why wasn’t he a lock for shootouts? He wasn’t on the first power play unit. Even when Williams went down, he didn’t play the right side on the top line despite all of his versatility.
I loved him on the forecheck, and his puck possession was grand, but if the Kings want a guy to score, they have to find a different guy.
My money is on Marleau coming to the Kings after San Jose trades his rights in a deal similar to Jay Bouwmeester’s at the draft. Or the team cuts ties with Williams too, and makes a trade for St. Louis and he plays the right side on the top line.
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That’s a lot of the same thing Lombardi said on NHL Live the other morning, but in that interview he didn’t name names. I’ll be shocked if the Kings resign Frolov. Even if he doesn’t ask for a pay raise he’s not worth what he was paid this year. I agree with those that believe he’ll go back to Russia to play in the KHL, along with Kovalchuk.
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Too bad.
I like Frolov. Always have.
I agree with DL that he’s a “productive player.” Too bad that the vocal minority don’t think so. Those of you who don’t like Frolov, please note that DL said in this interview that he’d like to have Fro on the roster next season, and if he is not signed it is for the reasons mentioned in this interview, not because DL agrees with any of you. Thank goodness DL is in charge of making the decisions, and not the fans, because if fans drove the the decision-making, we’d be at the bottom of the league forever.
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Hi Rich, do you know if DL has any plans in signing Geordie Wudrick, 88th (WHL) in 2008 draft? If he’s not signed by June 1, then he will go back in this years draft.
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jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
@Geno, Wudy seemed to only play hard in the playoffs. I am not sure that is enough to get him in our prospect pool. It is a shame because his holes could be filled in our development program. King took a huge leap this year. If he improves next year as much as he did this year, then he becomes someone who will contribute to the Kings one day. The Reign have put two guys into top 6 roles and a #1 goalie for Manchester next year.
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Let ‘em walk
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That which is not normally said probably shouldn’t be, and I’m not typically prone to using stereotypes, but there’s something about Russian players that always makes me think twice when it comes to signing them to big contracts while trying to build a winner. Many of them really don’t seem to care about winning as much as they do about fortune (Pavel Datsyuk is notably excepted).
Now, it might not be true, and it might just be something in the demeanor of Russian players gives them the appearance of not caring when they really do. Still, if the Kings are given the choice between signing Ilya Kovalchuk or Patrick Marleau, I’m hoping they go with Marleau. Compare their playoff records. Kovalchuk has never been out of the first round, and was pretty invisible with New Jersey, whereas Marleau is one of the only guys on the Sharks who cannot be faulted for the sweep at the hands of the Hawks.
As far as Frolov, I’d happily welcome him back into the fold. There are few guys in the world (let alone the NHL) that can keep possession of the puck the way he does. However, the object of the game is not just to keep the other team from getting the puck. The object is to score goals, and he really seems to have slipped in that department.
Now, perhaps it was a one-year slump. Perhaps it was that Ryan Smyth’s presence precluded Frolov from getting enough power play time to get 5-10 more goals. I hope that’s the case, but that doesn’t mean the Kings should go nuts and just give him all the money he wants… at least not until he proves that he cares about winning more than the money he makes.
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It’s a shame that Fro could not play to his ability for whatever reason.
To waste $5 mil of cap space money for a player who seems to be declining as the team is getting better makes no fiscal sense whatsoever.
DL’s right when he says the money is needed to sign the young stars of this team. Fro will never be a big scorer on the Kings again and if he finds his scoring touch elsewhere, good for him.
If you want to give him the big bucks based on the years of service he’s had with the Kings and his past production on some really bad teams, you will never have a competitive team. If a guy can no longer do what you need him to do, he must go.
As well as Fro adjusted to the checking role, he wants to be paid as a scorer. In my mind, he’s no longer a major scoring threat.
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Just heard that Doughty will be on NHL Live this morning. The program just started now and runs till 11am Pacific. It can be heard on XM Radio channel 204 and is simulcast on the NHL Network live.
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wavesinair Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:20 am
@Paul From Oxnard, it’s coming up right after this commercial…
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Paul From Oxnard Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:33 am
@wavesinair, Well that was a waste of time. Basically the whole interview consisted of “Who will win the cup?”, “did you get to know any of the Hawks or Flyers at the Olympics?”, “who will win the Norris?” (like he’s going to say “ME!”), and “what are you doing in the offseason?”
That’s 15 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.
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wavesinair Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:44 am
@Paul From Oxnard, To be honest, the entire nhl live show is pretty much like that every day so I expected fluff.
wavesinair Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:32 am
Getting to know Drew…
http://lakings.com/doughty
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Does anyone have any thoughts on the possibility of bringing back Eric Belanger for a possible two year deal? To have him as a 4th line center and possibly alternate him and Stoll at that 2nd line spot and another wing position would solve a lot of face off problems.
His last contract was for $1.75 mil which I think is a bargain for what he brings. It’s scary how comparable his stats are to Stoll, and he would cost the Kings a little more than half of what Stoll is making.
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KingMe20 Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:45 am
@Joel,
Belanger was a guy I was hoping the Kings would have gotten at the trade deadline. I think he’d be a good fit, but I’m not sure he’s a guy who wants to be a 4th-line center at this point. For him, Washington is a better fit, and arguably closer to winning a Cup.
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Barry's Mullet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:50 am
@Joel,
That spot goes to one of the young studs in Manchester. We don’t need to waste a roster spot on any veteran until we get to the deadline with a legit shot at the Cup.
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rick Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
@Barry’s Mullet, You’re assuming we’re gonna get a legit shot at the Cup without bringing in any veterans. Don’t agree. We do not have the forwards on this team, including those in the farm system, to make it to the top tier. We have only one legitimate first line forward – Kopitar. That is not gonna cut it. We need to bring some veteran talent in.
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Barry's Mullet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@rick,
Sorry rick…I was refering to Joel’s suggestion of Belanger being the veteran center on the 4th line when it should go to one of the manchester forwards. I agree 100% we need one more grade A sniper on the first line to have a legit shot.
jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
@Joel, At a buck 60, can he defend the centers in the West? I’d say not really, he would fit in better in the East.
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I’m sure most of you have seen this, but for those who haven’t here is a link to the TSN piece about Fro and Kovalchuk…
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=322799
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Once they moved Frolov off the first line the writing was on the wall.
He did better than I thought he would playing on the 3rd line, but without a play making center he was never going to score 25 or 30 goals. Being centered by Zeus or Stoll must have been frustrating as hell and not just for Frolov but for the entire team.
Why we suck 5 on 5 is we don’t have anyone who can pass the puck worth a damn. There is no creativity from any of the centers currently on the roster. Now put Frolov on a team like Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver or Montreal and 30 goals is just an appetizer.
The Kings have to work so hard 5 on 5 to get anything to the net. The majority of our offense typically comes from a dman at the point. Guys like Browne, Simmer and Frolov have to create their own opportunities, while other teams with good passing centers set up their wingers all night long.
Montreal is a great example….how many mini-mez do they have up front. Cammy, Gionta and Gomez all of them well under 6′ and all pass the puck well….yes even Cammy can pass the puck.
Whether its the money or the fact he has no one to play with on the Kings, I don’t blame Frolov for wanting to sign somewhere else. Its too bad, were losing a very good depth player that we need if we are going to make a legit run at the cup.
And don’t talk to me about how were are going to finally land that big Free Agent come July 1st. Thats the biggest joke…Its been THREE years and we haven’t landed shit yet!
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tullskull Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 11:58 am
@Barry’s Mullet,
Hard to argue with your points. I agree that the Kings are a poor passing team. It was so obvious against Van.
The only thing I would ask you to rethink is regarding the free agents. Are you saying that you would have done the Hossa deal, (we would have had to pay more and he wanted a guarantee we were a 100pt.team)or paid for the guy that went to the Rangers? (sorry can’t think of name right now),I know he had a great year but he did not want to come here either.
We need top level scoring but the plan was to build from the net out and we are not there yet. (need another top D.)
Please remember landing the big fish leaves less for the core.
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Barry's Mullet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
@tullskull,
Understood! I think we have done the things you just listed. DL has done a great job and has built from the net out with one more opening for a solid dman, but we have NO creativity among our forwards.
I think we have guys who can bury the puck but we need someone who can find these guys when they are open (like Vancouver did against us shift after shift)
A few years ago everyone wanted Gomez and Drury. Last year it was Hossa. Hossa would have been nice but like I said we haven’t been able to land the big fish. I think a player like Gomez and his passing is what is needed right now. Who that big fish is going to be this year I don’t know, but we need someone to take the pressure off the guys who are really secondary scorers…the Brownes, Simmers, Zues and Smyths are guys who should score between 15 – 20 goals every year…not the 35 or 40 we need to take the pressure off and compliment Kopi.
We need that ONE TWO PUNCH that the elite teams seem to always have and compliment them with size, checking and solid secondary scoring. I think we are two or maybe three players away from being one of those elite teams.
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I like Frolov a lot, and will be very sorry when the Kings officially cut ties but I have already mentally prepared for this outcome.
I could “read the tea leaves” like many of you.
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iPhone is not allow me to direct this at quispy but quispy, in your opinion, DL should sign a top 4 Dman (Volchenkov), and avoid the top tier free agents (Kovi,Marleau) so there is enough cap space to sign our young talent. With the need of a top6 forward (and improved 5 on 5) scoring, what (if any) free agent forwards are available/worthwhile in your opinion, at more reduced affordability. I know you mentioned a trade scenario akin to the Smyth deal (aka Iginla)being the other viable option. Do you envision any possible scenario where DL obtains one of the top flight UFA’s?
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Quisp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
@Kiosku2,
i don’t have the numbers in front of me, but i believe Marleau at approx $6MM (cap hit) front loaded so he gets much more now and much less later, plus Volchenkov (to pick one name) at $4.5MM-ish, keeps us under the cap but would require moving certain pieces (Stoll, Williams to pick two names) sooner rather than later, maybe sometime this season instead of next season. The trade option (my template for which is Stoll, Williams, a prospect and a high pick for Iginla — or maybe, as RudyKelly at Battle of cali suggested, Martin St. Louis, for a much smaller package) has the advantage of not eating up cap space, and dealing Stoll opens up room for Schenn to grab the C2 spot. I don’t really think the Iginla thing will happen, it’s just a conversation starter. But I doubt that Lombardi will only sign UFAs. I feel like it’s likely at least one piece will come via trade. Because he’s going to have to shuffle around some of the big contracts he has.
I can’t find the comment in this thread that said that the roster i suggested was essentially the same as this year, and therefore another first round exit. my response is that Schenn, Clifford, Hicvkey-Voynov, Muzzin, Bernier, a new top six forward and top 4 defenseman is a pretty big upgrade. really, it’s not going to get any better than that.
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wavesinair Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
@Quisp, “really, it’s not going to get any better than that.”
not to mention (but I will) all the young guys improving over last year. kopi, brown, doughty, johnson, parse, moller, greene, quick and richardson!
lesson: even if we stayed pat we’d be better.
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quisp Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
@wavesinair,
totally!
johnson next year i have very high hopes for. doughty, i remember him in juniors. he’s got a whole slightly nasty finish that he has only just started to show in the big league. maybe nasty is too strong a word. but he’s not soft. and wouldn’t it be great if kopitar accepted the challenge and got in even better shape? yeah it’s gonna be good.
jet Reply:
May 27th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
@wavesinair, and not to mention, a better back up goalie.
I still love you Fro! Bye…..
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I love Fro.
Fro can do much better on another team though. I feel that we didn’t use him in the manner that he could produce much better. 30 goal scorer on third line/checking line, for gods sake.
Hope you will be productive and happy wherever you are going to sign with, Fro. Good luck!
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He wants 5 Million a year. I would love to see hom come back, but for that price enjoy Russia.
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Seems like a straight forward honest answer. Exactly as I would imagine it to really be. Can’t say I would look at it any differently.
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Like I said, let Fro walk unless he can understand DLs position which I’m sure he does, but he’ll bail anyways for the cash. I hope he understands though, there’s no Stanley Cup trophy in the KHL.
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johnjuan Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
@Goring 19,
Wont be one in LA either without the main attractions.
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Lets see,
We got Smyth (how old is he? for what 6+ a year and we are gonna let Fro (28) go for 5?
That is stupidity.
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VanKingsFan Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
@johnjuan,
1. Smyth is more valuable than Fro, and deserves more money.
2. Smyth’s contract goes down by one million each year the next couple years
3. is age your only determining factor here?
4. We acquired Smyth and his contract came with him, much different scenario than having a UFA and starting a contract from scratch.
5. Smyth is Canadian, thus proven to be able to win in big games, Russia….cant even win the Worlds with the tournaments most stacked team BY FAR.
6. Smyth is cool, Fro is a fool.
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Johnjuan Reply:
May 28th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
@VanKingsFan,
1. Not even close!
2. 6.5 5.5 4.5 vs 555 you do the math.
3. end of career vs prime years. Yes it is a huge factor.
4. No, it was a bad move paying a has been .
5. Utter nonsense
6. Just wromg again.
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I HAVE BEEN GOING TO GAMES SINCE 1970. I HAVE BEEN TORTURED BY PLAY-OFFS. LET FROLOV GO, SIGN A PLAYER WHO WANTS TO WIN THE STANLEY CUP….WE HAVE GREAT GROUP OF CORE DEFENSIVE PLAYERS. DEFENSE AND GOAL TENDING WIN THE CUP… WE ALL KNOW THAT VANCOUVER WAS A BETTER TEAM. MORE TALENT. WE NEED CHARACTER PLAYERS WITH SKILL. LET THE KIDS MATURE. THIS WILL TAKE TIME… YES I KNOW, I ALSO WANT TO WIN NOW… BUT WE ARE NOT READY YET. BUT THE KINGS ARE CLOSER THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN 15+ YEARS. WE SHOULD EXPECT THIS TEAM TO BE BUILT TO WIN THE STANLEY CUP…PERIOD…THE FUTURE LOOKS GOOD.
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Let Frolov go–but Dean better get some value for him like a center who can score.
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