If you were surprised to see Jarret Stoll lining up on the right side, with Alexander Frolov and Michal Handzus, last night, you weren’t alone. So was I. Stoll, I believe, still ended up taking the most faceoffs, but it certainly gave the Kings a different look, although it didn’t produce any points. Given the way practice went today, it appears as though Terry Murray is going to stay with the line. Today, I asked him about his thought process, in terms of why he constructed that line…
MURRAY: “A couple things there. I was trying to find a right winger, to begin with, on that line, that’s going to have speed and maybe generate something off that side. I look at Stolly and his speed, his quickness, his shot. He had a couple good looks last night. I like that part of it. The other side of it, quite candidly, is I’m looking to get that Simmonds-Richardson-Parse line back together. They were very good for me for several games. I broke them up out of necessity there, because of injuries. I was really looking to find a way to get them back together again. That was my thought process.”
The natural follow-up, of course, was to mention that Parse is now no longer with the Kings…
MURRAY: “It’s the same issue that I’ve talked about before with Parse. He can give you the spectacular effort, score the great goal and look like he’s a top-six player, and then the next shift, or the next period, you’re wondering what the hell happened. To me, that was exactly the scenario last night. He starts off the game on that line. Turnover after turnover, and not able to make the passes on breakouts. Just too many things were looking as if his game was going the wrong way. I think a part of that, the word `concentration’ covers him in those situations. He’s just not right there, where you need him to be, in the concentration part of things, and bad things happen.”
Good info today Rich,,Thx!
Also, really liked Clune, Richardson, Simmer yesterday.
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Can’t get Richardson simmonds and parse line.
parse is gone
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aaaaaaaaaaaaa-HA! TM’s doghouse. Knew it.
Glad you followed up there Rich with that question because it kind of verifies that idea of Parse being sent to Manchester for more playing time. I truly believe Clume was NOT brought up to replace Parse, otherwise it would have been much easier than doing things with Segal. The Parse decision was made well after Clune came to LA (I betcha).
That leaves somehing stinky in the deal with Segal that (again) we’ll probably never know about. (Sorry, I can’t let it die. I love a good mystery.)
ALSO, MrBrett, Lomita & I Were FREAKING OUT during puck drop when we heard the announcement and saw Stoll on the Right side. I believe ‘Thoroughly confused’ is how Brett stated it. Nice to get an explanation there. Bottom line is Murray does not want to break up (The so eloquently stated earlier) ‘Richard Simmonds’ line. I have to bow to that comedic brilliance! Whoever named that line just rocks!
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Heidi Androl Interview with the crew!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7DXDwj0uuA
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Great stuff Rich.
Cool Video
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@Cynic: Actually, it sounds like the Parse decision was made late last night or early this morning.
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9 game win streak is hard to argue with…Go Back to:
Richardson – Kopitar – Simmonds
Smyth – Stoll – Brown
Frolov – Handzus – Parse/Clune
Ivanans – Moller – Clune/Parse (in place of Segal)
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What I want to know, is if Moller is centering the 4th line due to lack of center depth (according to Murray in an interview a little while back), instead of being a top 9 winger, like we have heard over and over again from the organization as being where they want him, then is moving Stoll to the right side really a good idea?
I also think that Stoll-Brown should have never been split up.
For a season and a half, the mantra has been about keeping pairs together, and it seems as though Murray has almost completely slipped away from that philosophy.
Far as I can tell, the only set pairs anymore are Fro-Zus and Ivanans-Moller.
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Kings were credited with 16 “giveaways” last night. Scott “Turnover after Turnover” had none.
Just sayin’…
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Also, what happened to Randy Jones on defense? Seems like Kings win when he is in the lineup… Only problem is, who drops off? I hate to say it, but Drewiske or O’Donnell…
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He may not have officially been credited with none Marc, but if you watched the game, I can think of 5, right off the top of my head, he had in his first 2 shifts, in his own zone, all on the break-out.
Statistic’s…lie, lie, lie…
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exactly mrbrett,
I witnessed several myself.
A terrible break-out pass from the high boards on the RW on his first shift immediately comes to mind. He had complete control of the puck, and put up right in the skates of an Oiler in the middle of the ice at our defensive blueline. BIG no-no, regardless if the statistician missed it.
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Did someone just advocate Jones returning to the lineup?
Oy vey.
The Kings won their last few games that he was in the lineup completely despite his terrible and frequent defensive blunders.
Earlier on, when he was first picked up, he was actively contributing to wins. Since those first few games, he has been the defenseman version of Ivanans.
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Surly-
We have 14.4 million (cap hit) tied to our 1st 3 centers alone (Kopi – 6.8, Stoll 3.6, Zeus – 4.0), If we have a ‘Lack of depth’ in that position, then DL doesn’t know what the HELL he doing! I know you’re quoting TM there with the lack of depth statement, so I don’t blame you, the messenger, here. I don’t believe myself moving Stoll over makes much sense. I understand the move to open up looks for Stolly, but I think it just creates more holes.
Agree Stoll-Brown should have been left alone.
Richard(son)Simmonds is the new pair that stays together according to TM in the earlier interview today by Rich. There should be a pair for each line:
Smyth-Kopi
Brown-Stoll
Richardson-Simmonds
Fro-Zeus
Problem is, all those guys are top 9. Someone is gonna get split up. It was Stoll-Brown. The 4th line pair could be anyone & Moller IMHO.
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Good job TM, win 9 in a row and start changing things up when in your own words you didn’t wanna shake things up. Of course we should have our two best faceoff guys on the same line. Why would we have it any different way? I don’t care what he says, makes no sense. How does it make sense to change whatever is working around but keep the struggling pp lines the same all season?
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Alen
We were winning, but there were a lot of games where if it wasn’t for Quick, we’d have lost.
I thought the Kopi line with Richardson and Simmonds was awesome for a good part of the streak..but towards the end of the streak, they weren’t playing the same way.
You have to change things up over time. Complacency begins to set in when things are left alone for too long. Change is a good way of keeping people on their toes. All of the Kings lines play the same way. Dump it or chip it in and forecheck…cycle and go to the net. There should be no issues of guys getting comfortable with one another. Everyone’s playing the same way.
Stop with the PP complaining. They rank in the top 3rd of the NHL in PP%…Yeah, it would have been nice to score on some of those pp’s last night, but they generated chances on several of them…again, they’re ranked 10th in the league…that’s not too shabby.
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TM is always stressing consistency from his players. He says that as coaches, they need to know what to expect from players. That sort of begs the question “Don’t the players need consistency back from the coaches in order to know what to expect?”
The argument could be made that he is shuffling lines intentionally in order to force the players to trust in the system above all else, and maybe that is an appropriate lesson for this stage in their development. Or maybe changing up the lines is creating an overall unity to the team as opposed to each line working for themselves. On the other hand, it seems counter-productive to lines building chemistry, or creating the opportunity for players to get in sync with each other.
Maybe trusting the system and overall unity is the building block upon which player chemistry and being in sync must be built. TM is an experienced and successful coach, so I don’t imagine that he is just flying by the seat of his pants, changing lines on a whim (even though that is an aweful lot what it looks like sometimes). I just wish I could understand what his overall strategy is, because seeing Stoll play right wing last night just seemed a little over the top to me.
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NY, as far as keeping to the system of dump and forcheck, it seemed like the boys were getting away from that last night. No idea why as that should be the system they all know by now.
Too many times we tried to create pressure with speed and carry the puck across the line. And too many times we would get stood up or stop it up as we crossed the blue line and then be forced into a bad pass or just cough it up.
We need to get everyone back to that style. Guys cant feel like they need to take over when things are sluggish. Stick to the system and make it work. Dont try changing it up mid-game.
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Really great take Cindy. Wouldn’t add anything to it, I’ll just say ‘What she said’ and that I agree Stoll to RW was over the top.
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you can change things up but why on gods green earth would you put two of your best faceoff guys on the same line????? Specially when in the 1st period u lost 17 of 21 faceoffs.
PP could still be better, half the time they just look horrible. Plus it’s the long cold streaks they go through that bothers me the most.
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Good points kings4queens. I do see the potential logic in TM’s moves in that light.
But, sitting here at my computer, I just wish I saw 4 balanced lines.
I like Cynic’s pairs.
Smyth-Kopi-Moller
Harrold (I’d like this to be Parse…)-Stoll-Brown
Fro-Zus-Purcell
Clune-Richardson-Simmonds
You can throw those 4 lines out for good amounts of time and against most any opposing line. There are no big anchors weighing any of those lines down. Clune-Richardson-Simmonds looked good. Without Parse, its either two of Harrold/Ivanans/Purcell have to play. Moller gets on a line where he can be effective and do some offensive damage. Fro-Zus are good enough to the point it almost doesn’t matter who they play with, they will be responsible. Stoll-Brown suffers the most, but again, without Parse, one of the lines is going to be a little on the ‘meh’ side. I’d prefer it be that way than to put Moller between Purcell/Harrold/Ivanans and effectively have it be a waste of 5 minutes of ice time for 3 players.
Sadly, the lineup does look noticeably bare without Parse… even if he wasn’t playing up to snuff lately.
I’m missing Williams more and more.
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Btw my biggest problem is that stoll was playing RW. I think it’s just hurting us in other categories.
Oh and I don’t want kompon or TM or anyone else fired. Just want some logic. Like I said, only way TM should go is if we don’t make the playoffs, that would take an epic breakdown.
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JDM,
I like it on paper but it’s unproven. Would like to see it at a couple of practices to see if they gel. Moeller is weighed down by the other lines.
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You’re right. Its unproven. Maybe subconsciously I just want Moller off the 4th line. But really, the Stoll to RW just irks me. I like Richie at center just fine, but Stoll and Zus shouldn’t be on the same line in my uninformed mind, unless its the PK.
Just spitballing… Mostly out of boredom as opposed to having anything of well thought out substance to contribute.
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Wow, I think that’s the most I’ve ever used the word ‘just’. I promise never to do that again.
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So it sounds like the Stoll Zues combo is scaring everybody.
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Just say no to just JDM.
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Kings4Queens, you said exactly what I was trying to find words for myself… I totally agree, there must be some damn reason for his line shakeups culminating with Stoll on wing. Pardon me Mr. Murray, could Master please make it more clear to Grasshopper?
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cynic — sorry about the Richard Simmonds line joke. I was being bombarded with a number of crystabol’s screen ID’s smacking TM and patting each other on the back last night. I have always responded to pressure with comedy, or attempts at such. Please ignore these
feeble attempts unless you are under the influence.
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>kings4queens
I 100% agree with you. Sometimes it does look like flying by the seat of his pants stuff going on. How can you build any trust with another player if TM is gonna switch him around and you may not play with him for the rest of the game or at all.
Does it have to do with TM wanting all his players to know all of his players? How can you ever get comfy and get to really know what another player is thinking unless you play with him all the time?
Is TM hedging bets that in case of injury all players know all players? How can that realistically happen better than sticking with only the same groupings?
If they keep switching out people at your work, how comfy could you ever get??? I would never get comfortable.
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I’m buying in to the previous posts that TM is doing it to preach the system. He shakes the lines up to show them that it doesn’t matter who your line is, the system WILL WORK! This is the hockey version of the triangle offense. Doesn’t matter who you plug into the role, when the system is trusted and used, it works! I’ve learned long ago that TM is no Crawford, there is a method to his madness and not just a board with the lines he throws darts at to make his decisions.
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Can somebody tell me this plan? What a joke!
Please people read back on Terry Murray’s Quotes when Smyth was injured and Kopitar was doing nothing.
What plan? There is no plan!!!!
The coaching staff was coaching scared before our win streak and still are…
Why are there so many line changes? Our record doesn’t agree with our roster potential, that’s why and now we are trying everything to get that extra potential money by finishing 4th instead of 5th. Everything.
Stoll is playing with Zeus because we lack a 2nd line centre.
If we don’t come up with 4 lines that can play 6+ minutes a game. We are done! I think we can make it past the first round but not unless we play 4 lines.
Line matching is going to kill us with Ivanans on the bench.
Playing only 3 lines for 95% of a game allows opposing teams to line match which kills us, especially at home giving an opposing team an advantage as opposed to us having an advantage.
Does not anyone else see this? He doesn’t cause goals directly but he being on the bench has a serious effect on this hockey teams ability whether one wants to see it or not.
I very much look forward to the playoffs and seeing how our coaching staff deals with this issue. we come up with 4 or we might as well shut er down now.
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Yeah, JT, I say we shut it down now. Screw being 16 games over .500 and being 5 1/2 games ahead of 9th spot for the playoffs. Ivanans makes the whole thing useless. Ummmmm, on second thought, maybe you kinda went over the top there. This “no plan” thing is kinda working pretty damn good.
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Player-x
Please look at successful playoff teams and their forwards specifically time on the ice in past playoffs. Then come back and please try and argue with me that what I am saying is not true.
If we do not have a 4th line. WE ARE DONE!!!!!! History speaks for itself and if Ivanans plays 4th line for us… We are done!!!!! Say what you want against me. Tell your friends to do the same…. Bottom line is I am 110% right!
Watch and see. If he isn’t on the 4th line then we have a chance. just watch. that’s all i am asking besides asking you do do a little historical playoff research.
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JT-
I understand your panic, but I think you could save yourself a lot of anxiety by accepting that TM and DL are proven pros and they know what they are doing.
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Repost from the previous post, but I think this part may have been overlooked, although I don’t know if it is at all true:
Maybe trusting the system and overall unity is the building block upon which player chemistry and being in sync must be built.
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JT, I have also been posting for months that we have to be a 4 line team. I completely agree about needing 4 lines, I have pointed out that the Kings travel warrants 4 lines even more than most teams. But saying we are “done” because we play Ivanans is ridiculous.
Just because you conclude that “historically” teams need 4 lines does not mean that I haven’t done appropriate research. My research was mentioned in my last post; I looked at our record. I am just saying that you are way over the top regarding whether any one player can kill our chances.
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Going to the game tonight with the wife. Hope they go to the break on an up note.
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JT-
Very strong observation. I’ll go farther, no 4th line perhaps no playoffs…
Losing two games is no reason to drink the Kool-Aid. Rather we should look at why these games were lost.
This 3 line game is unsustainable. Currently this team looks and plays tired. You have to trust your eyes.
A 4-6 minute 4th line with the current roster is the question. Ivanians can and should be playing, but who with?
Parse and Purcell are not dynamic enough to pair up. Moller is not large enough. Perhaps Clune (5’9″ not 6’0″) but one game…who knows?
Expending some “resources” to fine a good 3rd-4th player(s) and complete a 4th line may be the smart thing to do.
JT is right. We need a complete team if we expect to see much more success.
.
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Rebuilding is a process that cannot be accomplished overnight. We are a better team than we were at the beginning of the season. We were a better team at the start of the season than we were at the end of last season. Here is the roster from the start of last season.
Derek Armstrong, F; Brian Boyle, F; Dustin Brown, F; Kyle Calder, F; Drew Doughty, D; Erik Ersberg, G; Alexander Frolov, F; Denis Gauthier, D; Matt Greene, D; Michal Handzus, F; Peter Harrold, D; Raitis Ivanans, F; Jack Johnson, D; Anze Kopitar, F; Jason LaBarbera, G; Oscar Moller, F; Matt Moulson, F; Sean O’Donnell, D; Patrick O’Sullivan, F; Tom Preissing, D; Brad Richardson, F; Wayne Simmonds, F; Jarret Stoll, F.
Injured reserve: Marc-Andre Cliche, F; Richard Clune, F; John Zeiler, F.
I believe we have improved the team. I believe we have learned how to win big games. We just need to let the youth gain some playoff experience. So, for those who think we should quit if we don’t pick up a 4th line player, you need to do some research to see how important it is to have the players gain some playoff experience. You don’t go from rebuild to cup in one year.
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i never mentioned winning the cup. I did mention getting past the 1st round. I do believe AFTER making the playoffs making it past the 1st round is the 1st GOAL. Wouldn’t you agree?
Or your just happy being there?
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You’re I meant. last sentence…
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JT – Agree with all your observations. I think what people forget is this team is still a work in progress. This current roster is not built to win the SC this season. It is however good enough to make the playoffs and that’s about it.
This team is still very young and inexperienced.
There are needs at certain positions that will be addressed at the deadline or in the off season.
We have PROSPECTS that are not ready to play in the NHL but are projected to be very good and fill those spots you are eluding too in the next year or two.
Our 4th line is weak because you can’t go out and spend $1m – $2m on 4th line players. The overall organizational depth is just not there…you’re seeing the best we have, i.e. Purcell, Parse, Moller, Clune, Segal and as we have all seen, most of these guys are just not ready for prime time!
This year is all about learning and gaining experience. Hopefully we make the playoffs and after these guys lose and they will lose (unless you’re really drinking the kool-aid) they will be hungrier and more mature next season and everything the coaching staff has been telling these guys will make sense.
They don’t shoot enough on the power play but are still in the top ten in the league on the PP…imagine how good they will be when they are hungry and listen to the coaching staff.
They continue to come out flat and have been unprepared in the first period all year long but are good enough to come back…imagine how good they will be when the learn to play a full 60 minutes.
The goaltending has been outstanding this year, most consistent I’ve seen in the 30+ years I’ve been following the Kings. Imagine how good they will be when our goalie isn’t called on to make 6 or 8 great saves every night and learn as DL mentioned to put these teams away early in the game and win 5-2 instead of 3-2.
Experience is the answer…not filling the roster with bloated salaries to go another round in the playoffs. DL has been right all along…have these 6 – 8 core players learn and gain experience together and build a championship team around them!
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In a perfect world, Clune/Parse-Richardson-Simmonds is the 4th line.
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JT — I think our ultimate goal is to win the cup. But the boys have to waok before they can run. The goal this year is to play improtant games. Games that determine if you get into the playoffs or not. I think getting 5 or 6 playoff games would be a bonus this year.
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walk
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