alt="LA Kings Insider with Rich Hammond" />Long after Thursday night’s game was decided, there was a lingering bizarre question: how did the Kings NOT score a 5-on-3 goal? Their fourth goal clearly came with one second remaining on the initial penalty, meaning that the Kings should still have been on the power play, for 28 seconds, until the second penalty expired.
Yet, when play resumed after Anze Kopitar’s goal, it was 5-on-5. Why? Nobody seemed to know. It didn’t impact the game’s outcome, of course, but given how awful the Kings have been in 5-on-3 situations, there was something symbolic to being able to count that goal as a 5-on-3 goal. I asked Terry Murray if he got an explanation…
MURRAY: “Yes, I did. There was a mistake made by the off-ice officials. The referees came over, later in the game, and kind of apologized for it. … They called the referees back, after play had resumed, at the next stoppage, and said, `We messed up. There should have been one second left on that penalty.’ But what do you do?”
The answer is that, given that a mistake was made, the official stats will indeed show the goal as a 5-on-3 goal. The 28-second power play that should have existed will not be reflected in the stats.
I kind of have a BIG problem with this…
What if it was a tie game? What if we were still losing? The off-ice officials stole 28 seconds of PP time from us that we could potentially have seriously impacted the game.
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I was wondering about the same thing, Van. I wonder, if the Kings had gone on to lose the game, would there have been any way to protest the call and possibly replay the game from the point where the goal had been scored?
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I agree with that.. OPPS just doesn’t go over very well with me. Just like the NFL “No Fun League” they say the same thing and the outcome does change some times.
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VAN…
this could have been disastrous…
thankfully, it wasn’t…
comes with the territory…and it sucks when it happens to us…toronto might have been able to intervene if they had someone watching at all times, and not just upon goal reviews…
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The goal made it 4-0 and it appears as though everybody got lazy. That includes, honestly, the Kings. If the game was closer, I hope somebody on the bench would have thrown a fit before they dropped the puck.
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But the outcome didn’t change so whatever. Good for the Kings getting a 5-on-3 goal. Jim and Bob were all over the call on the telecast.
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Totally off topic here, but wanted to point out the Kings have 17 road victories this season…the last time we had more than 16, was 2001-02, when we had 18 and made the playoffs, great to see.
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VKF:
What if the Columbus goal had occurred a few seconds earlier?
That was the kind of inexcusable mistakes where someone should lose their jobs, sorta like the Pittsburgh T.V. video Editor that lost his job when he ‘forgot’ to show the view which confirmed a goal to the War Room in Toronto until after the puck had been dropped.
But this was L.A./Columbus… Who in Toronto cares?
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Play shouldn’t have resumed until the officials knew they had it right. Any TV replay in the building or in Toronto would have shown that there was still the 2nd power play to resolve. It amazes me that even with 2 referees and the replay system they use in the NHL these days that they could still make such a blunder.
If the Kings were trailing in the game even after that goal I would hope Terry Murray would have been out on the ice standing in the faceoff circle till they got it right.
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Oh my God, thank you Rich. If you hadn’t brought it up I am sure the entire hockey world would have been swept into some fourth dimensional vortex and the remainder of the season would have been cancelled.
(But seriously folks, it’s hard to believe that anyone could find it inexcusable. It’s human error. AND it’s hockey, not world peace.)
:)
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Why is it that the off ice officials for the NHL seem to have more problems than the on ice officials. You would think that the off ice officials are sitting at a desk with video replay, computers and almost any tool they could possibly need to do their job correctly. And yet they still can’t these calls right.
It did seem that the BJs got a little boost when they came back to 5 on 5, since they scored their goal soon thereafter. Could have been a shutout for Quick perhaps.
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yeah…i don’t know…maybe there should be more of a concern by the league and steps to have at least one person in toronto oversee every sec of every game…something i don’t think they have currently in place…
you would think toronto would be paying to us now, since we steamrolled their laughable leafs the other day…?
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If it were in Montreal, the refs would’ve counted off both penalties by mouth, expeditiously, “12345678910eeeeeeeeeeeeh one-twenty.”
;)
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Remember when we were awful and we could look forward to drafting Drew Doughty, Brayden Schenn, etc.. What do leafs fans have to look forward to?
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@ Paul – You’re right. The big blow-it was that everyone in the building knew something was wrong, and they continued play even though. The TV feed showed there was still a second left on the first penalty clock after the score, leaving the difference between the penalties plus one second. It should have been handled.
They obviously screwed up and each official responsible needs to do serious penance such as being slapped severely with a wet noodle. In addition, they need to take steps to make sure it can never happen again, when people probably won’t be so light-hearted bout it.
I’m just glad that at most it could have cost Quicker his shutout (which was broken a bit over a minute later, and I’d suggest having to kill more penalty may have changed that portion of the game.)
Quicker deserves a personal apology, just for good measure. That’s probably about it. Fortunately, this kind of screw-up seems rare in the NHL, unlike the NFL.
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@MN: Yes, human error happens. But in this day and age, with the technology available, this sort of thing just shouldn’t happen. It seems too happen way to frequently where a PP goal is scored with 1 second left and there is this whole commotion on whether the the goal was PP or not, or in this case whether there should still be a one man advantage for the Kings. There should be no commotion, it should be cut and dry. Player X went in at Time X; Player X’s penalty expires at Time X + 120 seconds. If goal is scored, check the clock for GoalTime: If GoalTime < Time X + 120 then the goal is a PP goal. Basic math… Has the NHL heard of computers and Excel?
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@ variable – You bring up an interesting point. I’ve long advocated that in pro sports that are televised, there should be a “TV official” who watches the whole game, just like a fan would. When screw-ups happen that are obvious to the fans, he would push the “red button” and have a chance to explain his objection to the on-ice/field/floor officials so that it can be addressed.
The NFL, which cannot possibly seem to get replay right, could benefit from this more than any sport. For that sport, I’d also suggest such an official in the broadcast booth and one in each endzone grandstand.
The point of this is a more professional form of quality control, more like you’d get in manufacturing–a sort of “customer-level” view of the product.
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WTFK…
yeah…i agree with you…
what would be the cost…?…not much…so how can they afford not to do it, right…?
well…if there was a contrarian argument to it…
you need finality to games…there’s 82…
if you have at least one person in place to watch the people watching, you run the risk of being a good monty python sketch…: it doesn’t guarantee it won’t happen again…100% full-proof officiating systems are hard to come by in sports because of the nature of interpretation (see the nfl/ask jon gruden…ask the sabres/hull’s goal)…so i understand, you have to draw the line somewhere…
but…i still think it’s worth a look at…maybe at the minor league level…where we seem to be more comfortable with such experiments….
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Thank God this happened in a game that the Kings easily won. I’m sure that same off-ice crew won’t be making that mistake again, hopefully the rest of the leagues officials will take note as well.
This could have been disastrous, and isn’t the first wonky officials error thing to happen this year. The NHL needs to do a better job preparing officials and off-ice crew and give them a better chance to succeed.
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Guys… Guys…
No matter how trivial (a 24 second or so power play 5 on 4, in a game won by the aggrieved party by three goals), such mistakes could have been important, especially in a playoff or end-of-season game.
In my example, the Pittsburgh guy lost his job over a non-goal in a game where the aggrieved team still won the game (Philadelphia). It didn’t matter there, how trivial the result was. The point was the precedent.
Same case here.
Yes, to be human is to err. To be an armchair quarterback is what we all do. But, if it’s your JOB…
I guess we should all take our beefs and just go home (or, go back to work).
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Funny thing about this point.
I just thought about the topic in the context of my own job…
…Y’all are right. Inconsequential result. It won’t happen again. Forgive, without regret.
Next game…
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Yes, Bako, mostly agreed, but it’s an opportunity to improve quality so it doesn’t happen again, when it counts.
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Rich, maye you can clarify this, but i believe the off-ice officials are employed by the NHL…which differs from the Pittsburgh situation. The producer was an employee of Fox..not the NHL.
I’m just glad it didn’t effect the outcome.
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Just remember, off-ice officials always attend a single team’s games. They don’t travel.
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While it’s easy to jump on the off-ice officials, bear in mind how fast the game moves. I’ve been an off-ice official for a minor league team and trust me; things move really fast and it’s too easy to miss something. And this was in the Minors – I can’t even imagine how hard it is to keep up at the NHL level. Just wanted to level set on this “easy” job for those folks who may not be aware.
Now with that being said, this may have been a situation where the clock was “allowed” to run after the goal was scored; and once the clock did stop, the first penalty was up. Unless there was a camera on the game clock as well as the net; how could it have been reviewed.
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Some of you keep talking about how to err is human, which is very true with the bad/missed/non call but the clock is pretty cut and dry and should be fairly error free. I also blame TM and the rest of the guys behind and on the bench for not calling attention to it immediately
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It would not surprise me if the league is addressing this issue with those involved, we just are not going to hear about it, at least not what kind of reprimand there is.
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‘What do you do?’
You go back and put the time on the clock just like when a goal is scored and the ref didn’t see it. You make it RIGHT. It’s not that hard. How much time had transpired? – A minute? More? Does it matter – no.
What is Columbus going to say – we object! No one cares because it was 4-0 but in a close game or a playoff game 28 seconds of PP time is huge.
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1+1=4
2 + 1 + 1- 0 = zero
State Pen math right there
Maximum security Level five Pass the kite over math. Go Kings Go
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Otto Ped
How would you expect TM, who’s watching the action, to be able to catch 1 second on the clock just as the goal was scored?
How many eyes is he supposed to have?
Also would yoyu rather have your coach watching the game or the clock?
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@fittin2
The ref clearly said there was a second left when the goal was scored. How hard is it to figure out that that means 28 seconds left in the other penalty. 7:27 / 7:54 – goal scored 9:26. I’ll gladly take their job and work the game and they can go overseas in my place :)
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First penalty was 7:27, Kopitar’s goal was at 9:26.
Basic math indeed.
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see…we can’t even agree here…
so i think the standard of culpability needs to be reasserted…where does it lie and are the proper checks and balances in place…(?)
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nykingfan….
In this case I would rather have had him watching the clock. That following goal took away a probable shut out from my fantasy team.
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That really sucks, i had money on the game here in Vegas, had the kings and the over, the over was 5.5, i could have used one more goal…or atleast a chance at one.
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The Refs where seen on tv before the play started saying “1 second”. That makes that kind of mistake inexcusable! And makes TM’s comment interesting. The refs knew at the time play started that it was wrong! Why did they wait till the next stoppage to say anything! Watch a replay, you don’t have to pay that close attention to see that the refs knew it should have still been a Kings PP! And so what if it didn’t effect the outcome! The refs should be suspended until they learn simple math! End of story!
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VanKingsFan: Toronto can look forward to free agents bolting there at the first possible moment because EVERYONE wants to play there! Just like when Rick Nash waited until his contract with Columbus expired, then went straight to Toronto to play in his hometown and form the foundation of the franchise, just like everyone in Toronto said he would! …………. oh, wait.
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Are they going to give us the 28 seconds back on the next game we play them?
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EricK: Classic… no matter how bad it gets for us Kings… at least we know the Leafers fans have it worse lol
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There would be a differense in the outcome… The very big possibility of Quick getting a shutout. It may be trivial because we got the win, not for Quick however.
There really is no excuse for that blunder. The whole game is on T.V. Most of you guys have been to a live game, you all know that there are televisions all over the stadium to show replays of goals, penalties and so on.
If this were a 1 goal game, no Kings fan would take kindly to this “human error”.
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It doesnt really matter, does it. We won.
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gas man:
Your missing the whole point. If these mistakes can happen and the ref just says “woops, sorry my mistake”. Then what is to say it wont happen when it really DOES matter
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Otto Ped
I hear ya man..At least you get the wins…no value in coaching!
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It might matter to Quick… Around the time he’s in arbitration.
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Someone should have to account for that big of a mistake. As in off ice official suspended and cost him big in the walet.
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Hey KC, if you are going to post on older issues, would you mind posting here:
http://lakingsinsider.com/?p=3606
Still going for 500! Thanks, :)
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Half the time they can’t count up to six (for too many men penalties). This alone doesn’t make me surprised that this happened.
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So I agree with MRK because…that next stoppage was the Columbus goal. That’s right – COLUMUS’ GOAL. If they would have went back and put the time on the clock QUICK might get the shutout. Does it matter – yes. HUGE MISTAKE! So Columbus scores and the refs come over and say – oops but we aren’t going to do anything about it.
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When the Kings score I looked up immediately at the PP clock on the upper left corner of the screen and saw one second left there.
They should’ve called me. I would’ve gotten it right ;-)
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