alt="LA Kings Insider with Rich Hammond" />Since this is an interesting topic, and it’s already dominating every post anyway, here’s what I know about the Ilya Kovalchuk situation. I’ve been holding off until I could actually produce something halfway helpful.
– Atlanta is, without question, now exploring options to trade Kovalchuk.
– Atlanta is talking to the Kings, but certainly not exclusively and not “around the clock.” The Kings certainly have high interest.
– So far, there has been one offer made by the Kings, and one offer/request made by the Thrashers of the Kings. No, I can’t disclose the players involved. Yes, I know that will anger some of you. No, I’m still not going to disclose them. That information was provided in confidence by only one source.
– At least so far, the Thrashers are holding firm that no teams will be allowed to negotiate an extension with Kovalchuk, making him a rental player. The Kings would look at Kovalchuk as a rental, but wouldn’t be willing to give up as much.
– The issue, for the Kings and other teams, is going to be the willingness to give up players currently on the NHL roster. Atlanta isn’t necessarily looking for a prospects-and-picks rebuild, a la Dean Lombardi. They have franchise viability issues, and they need to keep their NHL team looking reasonably strong.
– Teams that are closer to being Stanley Cup contenders — and within that, particularly teams that are staring down salary-cap issues — would be far more likely than the Kings to give up current NHL players for a Kovalchuk rental.
– The KHL is a looming, real possibility for Kovalchuk next season, which makes every GM nervous.
– There’s a “trade freeze” in place during the Olympic break, but GMs can still talk to each other. The freeze will be lifted after the Olympics, and the trade deadline is March 3.
That’s about all I can tell you at this point. I’ll stay on it as best as possible. I would urge you to follow legit reporters such as Pierre LeBrun of ESPN.com, Elliotte Friedman and the Hockey Night in Canada crew, the TSN guys, Hockey News, etc., and to stay away from the fiction writing. So feel free to use this thread to talk about Kovalchuk to your heart’s desire. Practice is at 1 p.m. Eastern time today…
stay the course my brothers … stay the course. We would have to give up WAY too much for Kovi. I’d love to have him but not at a price that would significantly disrupt what has taken place and is taking place now with the Kings. We’ve been patient until now (most of us long term fans at least), lets remain patient and do this the right way. Go Kings.
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I could see perhaps making the move for prospects and picks. But at this point I would not give up any active NHL players for this guy. A “rental” is risky and could set the organization back a year or two depending on the cost for him. The Kings have depth and are getting it done as is. I believe a trade of active roster players would just be too disruptive to the chemistry for a “rental”.
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Amen, wait until FA begins
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I am beginning to agree. The rumored asking price still seems to be too high. But come July 1, I would certainly hope the Kings go full bore for him.
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wait for the bidding war. lock up wayne and drew to contract extensions then go after kovi. there will be cap space cuz of frolov and we won’t be paying dan cloutier anymore. lol and the little cap space we get from letting go ivannans
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Am I the only one who doesnt care to give up any of our young talent for a guy like Kovalchuk (or Kovalchooook like Kipreos kept calling him last night)?
Theyre not going to want Purcell, Moller and a pick, theyre going to want more established players. Im thinking Simmonds, Johnson, and Frolov. No thanks.
Hopefully, Murray can lead us into the playoffs this year but were not going to win the cup. In the offseason maybe we sign a bigger name free agent and go deeper into the playoffs, and the year after that when we are actual cup contenders, then we sign a rental player at the deadline. Thats the way i see it anyway.
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XM-NHL Home Ice/Rob Higgins said this morning that for Kovi, the Kings would have to give up JJ, Simmer & Bernier…way too much for a rental player.
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Would be great if this were to become a recurring, semi-permanent thread that remains availabe on the front page so those that wish to indulge themselves can be free to do so and those that wish to avoid this can do so as well. It would preserve the integrity of other threads…
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I’m guessing over 150 posts in this thread today
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also go after him durring free agency. so he can have the summer to learn the system and develop a chemestry with the players and see who’s game he helps elevate to the next level.
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Hey Rich, do you think giving up our roster players right now would be worth getting Kovalchuk? I’m not saying he isn’t worth it, because he is. I just love what Dean has down. I would hate to see our hard workers go the other way. I would just like YOUR opinion on the situation.
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Beyond the Score sheet – http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=307737
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Considering he’d basically have to be a rental thanks to ATL I say pass on him. Rentals are for winning a cup and we’re not close enough yet. Kovi will not get us a cup this season.
There will be other superstars available that we’ll be able to lock up long term. I say let him go. (Though I’ll be way excited if we do get him!)
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Kovalchuk isn’t going to make it to UFA. His GM will not let him go for nothing.
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And who knows if Kov will be available during free agency…Kings aren’t the only ones in the running
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Yeah…that gives some legs to the Simmonds part of past rumors. No way should the Kings give up Simmers.. Bernier and JJ I am fine with, heck through in Fro at that point. My real issue is the 10M per after that. I agree with stay the course!
Look at Hossa going to the Pens as a rental and then not resigning. Then going to the wings and losing in the finals again hahaha. It’s not al about the sniper.
Whitney could be a good rental…maybe there are others out there that we are all not aware of????
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DL……we all love Kovi, but don’t sell the youth of our great team to get him. I would be happy to wait till July 1st to make an offer. Plus there are other free agents that would help our drive to the cup and they would come at a fraction of the cost. Trust me after this season there will be plenty of UFAs that will want to be a part of the LA dynasty!
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As a rental, the only player that is expandable is Johnson. He and Lombardi will not get along in the future, and let’s face it; he is not the player we were expecting.
I would love to get Kovi for the obvious reasons, but also because he would help Fro to get going (Russian connection).
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when was the last time a trade deadline scoring superstar helped a team win a cup?
he is good but not for the price, and IMO, wadell is making a huge mistake by not letting other teams negotiate with kovi
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“XM-NHL Home Ice/Rob Higgins said this morning that for Kovi, the Kings would have to give up JJ, Simmer & Bernier…way too much for a rental player.”
That is just retarded. That would be giving up double what the penguins had to give up for Hossa. He is pulling that at of his beep.
Bernier, Johnson and Simmonds >>>>>>> Armstrong,Kristensen and a low first rounder. Plus they got Dupuis back too.
Hell Johnson might be >>>>>>>>> then that trade on his own.
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I am sure Wadell would love to see him walk to the KHL
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The terms will change. Once the realistic outlook of a deal nears, I’m guessing the right team will have the opportunity to negotiate with Kovi’s agent.
In regards to the big “should we do it?”…Yes.
Listen, its not easy to part ways with some of the players we’ve grown to love. But we’re talking about the highest goal scoring player since the lockout, only 2nd to Ovechkin. Do you want to see Kopitar produce more? Or a PP that’s down right deadly? How about having a pair of top lines that could be a no. 1 line with any team in the NHL? This isn’t about just making the playoffs anymore. This is about what we’re trying to achieve overall. THE STANLEY CUP. And its no picnic. We need some serious top end talent to get there. Every cup winner since I could remember has had a multitude of all star caliber players. Certainly more than what any draft could produce. At some point DL needs to take the big leap and trust in the farm system he has built. We move a couple guys to get Kovi, and let the future of this team fill the holes. If we get Kovi…we become a cup contender. Not just a playoff hopeful.
43 years…its time to pony up and chase the dream.
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Thank you Rich for bringing true journalism to hockey (waiting for facts before reporting). I’d love to hear your opinion on whether the Kings would be better for trading the players (that you know of) for Kovalchuk???
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And take THAT Matt Barry!
Ziiiiiiing!
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No way as a rental so DL should hold strong for right to negotiate an extension w/ him first. He’s worth big $ and term (a la Hossa or even more). If we got him along w/ an agreement to extend I’d give up some combo of Schenn, Tuebert, Hickey, Bernier and Johnson. NOT SAYING ALL 5 before anyone jumps on me.
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“No, I can’t disclose the players involved. Yes, I know that will anger some of you. No, I’m still not going to disclose them.”
I don’t think this was intended for humorous purposes but I laughed out loud anyways. Thanks for the inside info Rich. It’s good to know that our GM is working hard to add quality players to our team.
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“No, I can’t disclose the players involved. Yes, I know that will anger some of you. No, I’m still not going to disclose them.”
Hahaha, that’s awesome.
At any rate, stay the course. Just get Whitney and Pitkanen and call it a day. Let Jones walk, and we’re ready to roll.
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They’ll still be begging on who the players were by around 10 AM…
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…and BTW, I’m not a fan of renting him. If DL can’t work out an extention prior to the deal. Forget everything I’ve said.
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I agree with Rich wholeheartedly about following “legit reports” instead of the rumor blogs. The Hockey News today is reporting that Atlanta has given Dean a list of players they would take for Kovalchuk. The list is a bit steep, but it is the beginning of trade talks. Speculation is that they want JJ, and/or Moller, or Simmonds, and prospects Brayden Schenn, Colton Teubert, Brandon Kozun and Andrei Loktionov. If we can’t speak to Kovalchuk before the deal, then there is no reason to talk with Atlanta whatsoever.
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To TB, and others…
Every time I hear someone say something like, “We have to get top end talent,” or, “We need a sniper,” I wonder: who exactly do we have left after we trade for this guy, and just how much money do we have left to keep these prospects that are gonna fill the holes? Sure adding Kovalchuk would make this team awesome right now, but you are not gonna HAVE the same team to add him to after you trade the kind of players necessary to get him. Add to that the inability to negotiate long term, and you waste talent for a guy that can just as easily move back home and play for more money in his own country by signing with the KHL.
Of course they are talking. “Who you want for Kovi?” “Who would you give up for Kovi?” Neither Lombardi nor Waddell are doing their jobs if they don’t make the call. But, serious negotiations? DL has probably made the perfunctory offers, but he is not gonna sell the farm for an unknown. If there is anything we know about Dean Lombardi it is that he thinks long-term, and without some assurance he is not gonna be fooled into the “rental” scenario.
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TB…yes, you do it…ONLY if this team is on the cusp of winning the cup.
Can you honestly say that about this years squad? Honestly? Seriously?
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I agree with stop the puck :when was the last time a trade deadline scoring superstar helped a team win a cup?
We need to stay the course with rebuilding, and go UFA in the summer.
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We don’t need rentals, heck DL could go and get any rental, why should we give up players for 45 days and get nothing but a rental who may very well go to the KHL, on Home Ice yesterday they stated that Waddell said that Kolvalchuk was looking for … $8,000,000 per for 10 years. I just don’t believe DL would pull the trigger on that.
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Thought I’d put my two cents worth in on this. I’m sure the sentiments of what I’m saying have been said many times before.
Is Kovi a great player? No question.
Is the asking price for a rental of him too high? Absolutely.
Would he help lead us to a Stanley Cup if we acquired him? That remains to be seen.
Would he fit in with the “chemistry”, i.e., the “culture” of what DL has been trying to build with the Kings these last four years? Don’t know.
Because of those answers, to me, making a deal for him now as a rental, is just too risky. I think we’ve got something here with this group of players. Breaking them up now to acquire a rental, no matter how good he is, would, in my opinion, set-back this organization at least a couple of years. And, quite frankly, if the deal were done, then this “rebuilding” that we’re all bought into now would have been a sham. I say stay the course, let’s see what “our” guys can do, not only this year but many years down the road.
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“So far, there has been one offer made by the Kings, and one offer/request made by the Thrashers of the Kings. No, I can’t disclose the players involved. Yes, I know that will anger some of you. No, I’m still not going to disclose them. That information was provided in confidence by only one source.”
So is this E3 or an E4? I cant remember? :)
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No way DL makes any move for Kovi without a contract signed. Let the other teams give a way the farm for a rental player and than we can sign Kovi when he becomes a FA over the summer.
NOW….If Atlanta agree’s to let DL negotiate a new contract than to me its a no brainer….we have to make that deal…but not for JJ + Simmer + Bernier + prospects and picks.
DL should only include JJ if he thinks to much damage is done and he won’t be able to sign him. The kid just has too much upside.
So the deal for Kovi is….
Simmer or Bernier + Parse or Moller + Teubert or Schenn and we’ll throw in Purcell and we have a deal?
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This is brutal! I hate the word “rental”….and giving up some of what has gotten us this far would be hard to swallow…. “where there’s Risk, there’s reward” ~ We’ll See!
GO KINGS!
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Player X…
again…I agree that renting him is an enormously bad idea. But if we can negotiate with his agent its worth it. I’ll further answer your question like this:
Kovalchuk – Kopitar – Williams
Smyth – Schenn – Brown
Frolov – Handzus – Simmonds
Segal – Lotkionov – Richardson
DD – Scuderi
Drewiske – JJ
Hickey – Greene
In my assumption, this is a very possible lineup for next season. You can do the math here and see that with our depth chart, we can offer a varity of combinations that won’t hurt the lineup as much as assumed. I’d offer Stoll, Parse, Teubert, with a pair of 1st and 2nd round picks. If you think this is mortgaging the future too much, I strongly disagree. We still have plenty of talent developing in Manchester and in the Junior ranks.
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All you Nay Sayers with regards to aquiring #17 from Atlanta is the deal that puts us over the top as a top 4 team year after year. If you folks want to continue to throw good money away year after year hoping that we can grab that 8th spot and maybe play 2 playoff games at home every once in while then go ahead and pass on this opportunity and wait for the Cliff Ronnings, Sobel, Carter, Parrish and all the other POS of the league to fill the roster at trade deadline time. You forget we are the Kings under AEG and we can only go so far before they set off our anklet devices. GO KINGS…Also remember how many big free agents have chosen the Kings when the season ends. It’s funny how all the others look more pleasing than the Kings when the off season rolls around. Pronger, Neidermeyer, Hossa and the other DL has said yes I made an offer but they wanted to sign elsewhere. Just my $1.02 cents
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I’m confused as to why Waddell won’t let Kovi and his agent discuss extensions with potential trade teams? Wouldn’t this maximize their trade return?
Agreed though, that JJ/Simmer/Bernier is not worth a rental player when the Kings are not contenders. Prospects potentially, because it could increase the chances that he would sign an extension, but not viable roster players at this point.
Thanks Rich!
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Do not give up Simmonds or Bernier or Johnson ! Some combination of prospects and picks or wait until July ! !!!
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The Kings will not make the playoffs without Wayne Simmonds. He brings everything everynight.
Keep the Handzus and Stoll, they are part of the heart and soul to the team.
ATL will bring down the price once they realize the Kings are their only customer.
What is best for their team:
JJ+ Moller+1st+Hickey+Loki=Kovi
nothing = kovi
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Good read:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=lebrun_pierre&id=4862815
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At first blush it makes no sense to me to not allow any teams to negotiate with him prior to making a deal. He’s worth MUCH more as a signed player than as a playoff rental with a slight hope of signing him before the he becomes a UFA.
The more I think about it though, if he’s dead set on testing the FA market or returing to Russia to play in the KHL and absolutly refuses to sign, then he’s worth even less because you’ve removed the ’slight hope’ part.
Conclusion: He ain’t signing nothing until this summer, Atlanta knows this and this is the reason they won’t allow anyone to negotiate prior to dealing for him…
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Agree with Player-X. Don’t be tempted by pie in the sky. If you give to much away and the Kings become a .500 team, a big fat contract in the locker room like that becomes a cancer real quick.
Many of you make it sound so easy. Just get that “one guy” and you’ll be sipping from the cup…
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Hey Rich, I know you aren’t going to reveal the players named, but I respect your opinion.
What is your opinion of the players DL offered? Too much, a steal, just about right?
What is your opinion of the players Waddell is asking for? Too much, get-it-done!, just about right?
Thanks for keeping on top of this for us fans!
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I agree with everone that there is NO WAY we should throw the farm at ATL for Kovi as a “Rental”! And since ATL is not allowing anyone to negotiate a new contract with Kovi, then it really does not make any sence… wait for the off season, and sign him… its obviouse he is not gonna stay in ATL, so why not wait.. giving up what ATL wantes would be way to much, and NOT the right move at this time.. Yes we could use a guy like Kovi, but then again which team couldn’t? Lets be realistic and patiant, we are on the right track and in the summer we can add a key piece to this puzzle!
Btw, hey Rich.. i know you cant tip your hand on what players were disclosed to you, and that is respectable.. but knowing from the inside what players might go the other way, would you do the deal??
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I’d bet a wad of cash Waddell won’t let Kovy negotiate up front so he can try and nab him back as an FA. This way, Waddell gets some assets for Kovy as a rental, while still having a shot at him as an FA.
Makes sense to me. I’d do the same thing if I were Waddell.
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shorthanded: just read the article you posted … very positive!!!! GO KINGS!
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I see Kovi a King via a trade or a free agent. But what to give i guess is the million dollar question. Look what DL did in San Jose, to get Joe thorton. So don’t be so surprised if some quality guys get shipped. Think of the return. I don’t see just Kovi coming over if a trade does happen, i am sure a D man might be in the mix as well.
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I don’t know what to make of Kovalchuk any more than anyone else here, but what I do know is that this was a fabulous reporting job, Rich. To get this kind of inside information is unbelievable. Rich, you ARE the man
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Not to change the subject. but if your interested in some comedy. take a look at this crazy leafs fan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blyqTjb0wsc
This guy just makes me laugh…lol
Go Kings
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NO DEAL!
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Jay Feaster on NHL Live just said that he thinks the Kings are the front runners for Kovi, but he knows that Deano won’t make a trade that doesn’t make any sense even if he desperately wants Kovi. Go Deano!!!
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This article in the Hockey News is a good read about this stuff…
http://thehockeynews.com/articles/31066-THNcom-Blog-Kings-Thrashers-talking-Kovalchuk-trade.html
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This is sooooo Lecavelier situation all over again. Where does Vinny STILL play for
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Relax everyone…. DL already made an offer and they countered and there has been no deal yet. So rest assured that DL is not going to make a stupid trade. If it were me I would do this
Frolov+ Tubert+ 2nd
No more and no less!
The thing that worriers me most is the contract he would want. 10 mil for the next 10 years or something like that. That is what worriers me most of all.
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Also I say save the big money long term contact for DD. He will be the face of this franchise.
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Rich,
Do you know why Waddell doesn’t want to let other teams negotiate with Kovalchuk? It seems to me like he would be able to get a better return if a team knows it can sign him long-term. Just seems strange to me.
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VanKings-
This is completely different than the Vinny situation. At no point time did either GM state there was interest in moving Vinny.
You just posted a comment in an article that clearly states our intent to aquire Kovalchuk.
How is this not a completely different situation?
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These articles and radio pundit comments actually anger me. They make me want to be very sarcastic (not pretty nor healthy for me) so I won’t go that route. Needless to say…. JJ, Bernier, Simmer for a rental. Ummm, try that again, how about JJ, Bernier, and Simmer for a fully signed Kovi. NOPE. OK, how about two of the three for a fully signed Kovi… Still no. Let the Hawks get him on a rental and maybe, just maybe win the Cup, then they can deal with every sort of financial headache not to mention complete restructure of the chemistry of the team for next year. They want it….. good, they can have it!!
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Ersberg…I’m pretty sure thats the one thing that is not going to happen. The whole point to this situation is that the thrashers can’t afford him. Especially if he’ll be openly taking offers as a UFA.
Van…in comparison to Vinny, he wasn’t a pending UFA when the rumors were circling. I’d say this situation has a much higher likelyhood of actually happening. Maybe not for the Kings, but he’s a goner.
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As much as I would love to see Kovi in a Kings uniform, I’ve read that Atlanta wants a laundry list of players for him. I don’t know if I’d want to gamble on one guy that could turn out to be a flop. What if he would go on a Kopitar like drought?
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Rich
I would also be interested to know your opinion on the players mentioned and whether you think its worth it or not.
I respect the fact that you won’t reveal the names…You’re a true professional!
I have a question
I look at our scoring and its probably the most balanced scoring attack in the NHL.
We have balanced scoring coming from all 3 lines.
Why the need for Kovy?
What will he provide us that’s been missing in our lineup?
Forget the “go to guy” BS If we weren’t getting consistant scoring, I would buy that argument, but when you’re amongst the top of the league in scoring, the urgency to add another scorer just isn’t there…especially at the exhorbinant price Atlanta’s going to extract.
I love the team the way it’s presently constructed. Taking away from this team to add something else makes no sense at all.
If Kovy was the and all/be all Atlanta would be battling for a cup, not the 8th playoff sport..if they’re lucky!
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NMKingsFan -
I was going to ask the EXACT same thing. Care to comeent Rich? It would be really appreciated since we all value your opinion so much..
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The Kings just traded Juraj Mikus(sp) used skates for Kovi and Waddel is paying the Kings 4mil a year too.
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I don’t think Dean was GM of the sharks for the Thornton trade , was he ??
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I am glad that the reoccuring theme on here is not to give up our youth for a rental player. Before it seemed like everyone was willing to unload just about anyone on the roster to get Kovi, but as I have always stated, I do not think we are at the right stage to give up hard working players who we can continue to build around for a rental player this year. It’s not worth it and hope that DL continues the course. Let’s let these kids play their hearts out and show that we can make the playoffs and build from there.
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Pass altogether. This would go completely against what DL has tried to build here. If anything, you would talk during free agency. Then what about the money committed that he’ll need to sign our younger core.
Don’t get your hopes up Kings fans. He’s not the right fit. I’d bet money that he ends up with the Rangers !!
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If there is one thing that stands out to me in the above post it’s that Lombardi is WILLING to trade for a high octane rental. Obviously DL would try resigning him, but the fact that he would trade for Kovalchuk (with the understanding that he could walk) just to help this squad make the playoffs is very gratifying to read. Just imaging this club in the playoffs gives me goosebumps. Thanks for posting this Rich.
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I respect those who want to pull the trigger, but do us a favor: do not base your decision on transactions / decisions made prior to DL. Sure he made some bad acquisitions (McCauly, Cloutier, etc), but those were stop gaps. He has shown a commitment to building this team from the ground up and you can’t site players like Ronning, Sobel, Carter, as support for you claim. EVERY team needs players and the Kings prior to DL did not make decisions with the future in mind. I’m a big fan of Dave Taylor, but he was a status quo GM. We have a foundation for the first time with this team and you do not destroy it for one player. Sure you have to trade talent to get a player of his caliber, but you do not jeopardize the process for him.
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Can we stop saying IMO and IMHO. If you are not quoting someone, I know it’s your opinion.
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Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind why Waddell wouldn’t let teams negotiate a contract? Wouldn’t that give him maximum value in a trade?
WHAT AM I MISSING??
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No, DL was not the GM for the Thornton trade. We are talking about Joe and not Scott? LOL. Besides what has he done for the Sharks in the post season. N
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While I agree getting Kovi as a rental is risky and doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, it isn’t COMPLETELY crazy either. If we DO get him as a rental, we now have EXCLUSIVE negotiating rights with him up until July 1. While that doesn’t guarantee us being able to sign him, it gives us a lot better chance at doing so then if he gets traded to another team at the deadline instead. This would give us 4 months to talk to Kovi and his agent and get him to sign here, instead of a couple hours on July 1. Look at Bouwmeester last year. Calgary traded for his rights last summer and was able to sign him. Yes they didn’t have to give up a whole lot to get those rights but Bouwmeester is no Kovalchuk either. Then you have the Hossa side of it but Pittsburgh was trying to win the Cup that year and I don’t think really NEEDED him to re-sign there since they already have Crosby & Malkin. Don’t be suprised if DL pulls the trigger on a trade sometime soon. I think if he does, he will do so having some kind of info from someone in Kovalchuk’s camp knowing there is a GOOD possibility that Kovi will sign here…
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EA: I think the difference between now and a few weeks ago is that we have won 5 of 6 now, so people have taken their finger off the panic button.
I don’t like the idea of a rental player period. I would much rather have Grebeshkov and Tambellini than Sopel and Parrish for a couple months….thats the last rental I can remember for us, just brutal. Anson Carter is another good example of why rentals are usually a baaad idea.
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Whatever happens, please Dean, do NOT give up Bernier.
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TXKingsfan, I get the goosebumps too…getting flash back for game 6 VS Detroit…
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I would much rather see us pursue players like Raffi Torres, Scott Hartnell, Dustin Penner, Jordan Leopold, and Niklas Hagman
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I really think DL is doing this mostly for PR and has not intention of signing Kovi unless he gets exactly the deal he wants….we only have to give up prospects and one of the players below and we can sign him for a lot less than $10M season.
Simmer – Going to be a top 6 forward in the league for many years and probably score 25+ goals a season. Forwards are easier to come by and you have to be willing to give up something to get the best sniper in the game. If I was the Atlanta GM, this is the guy I want.
JJ – You just can’t give up on this guy…way too much talent and upside…defenseman this good don’t just fall off trees. I move him only if its a deal breaker and the deal doesn’t include Teubert or any other top 6 forward off our roster.
Bernier – This is the tough one….HOW GOOD IS THIS KID GOING TO BE? Lots of goalies have put up great numbers in the minors only to lay eggs in the NHL. After suffering so long without a top goaltender….Do we want to be watching the next Brodeur playing on some other team for the next 15 or 20 years. That would just be too painful to watch.
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Jordan,
It can actually hinder negotations for Waddell. If a team realizes they are not going to be able to sign Kovi at all, then they wont give up anything whatsoever. So although Waddell may not receive the max he could probably get, it’s better to get something than nothing from a team who can’t resign him.
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I would be willing to give up 1 (forward) roster player because unless it’s Kopitar, they are being replaced by a much much better roster forward. I’d also toss in a 4th line player such as a Segal/Purcell/Moller/Parse because the Kings can afford to replace 1 of those players, but as a rental any move would be risky. I agree, I think I’d rather take our chances at July 1st.
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To me, our untouchables are Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Simmons, Bernier and Schenn. I wouldn’t make any trade involving these players. This is our present and our future core to build around. DL will fill the holes by way of free agency. I would be totally shocked if he traded any of these character & skilled players, especially for a rental. Don’t do it Deano.
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Van — what did Anson Carter cost us?
Drewiske, Hickey, and Ivanans for the rental. Plus Jones and Martinez if they want.
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Darren says:
January 27, 2010 at 8:53 AM
And take THAT Matt Barry!
Ziiiiiiing!
So Rich took his time in properly confirming what my sources told me days ago… how is that a “zing”?
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Tantrum I hear what you are saying and I can see where it makes sense that since we have more time to negotiate with him that we have a better shot at landing him but I think you are missing one very key piece of info there.
Kovi, has said many times through the media, that he had instructed his agent to wait until he is a UFA to negotiate. He believes he can fecth the most dollars in the open market. So even if we gave him say 12 Mil per for 8 years or something, I think he still waits till July, tell other teams what the Kings are willing to do and see if anyone else matches it. That’s what I would do if I am his agent.
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@NYKingfan… Hi guy. Listen, I liked your comments above. Last night I listened to the Toronto broadcast on xm and the commentators said that the Kings had 8 (yes eight) players in double digits in goal scoring. So you’re observation is correct. So much for not having secondary scoring.
I think the occasional mental lapses are far more of a consideration than secondary scoring for this team…
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This is a good topic for a poll. Who would do the trade for a rental and who wouldn’t?
And I was thinking if we were to get him & we still have Simmonds, who do you ask to change numbers?
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If we gave up Frolov, Hickey and a pick for Kovalchuk I would not be angry. Anything that involves JMFJ or Simmonds would be ridiculous.
Go KINGS!!!!
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Two more points…. One, someone predicted 150 posts on this thread. Do I hear 200…. 200 anyone? 250…..?
Also, even with Kovi (this season) I don’t see the Kings as ready to win the Cup this year… just in the West you have SJ, Chic and with healthy players a very experienced and savvy Detroit team. (Anyone remember how poor the Pens were playing last year BB – before Bylsma)? So I’m not keen on a rental personally.
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“If a team realizes they are not going to be able to sign Kovi at all, then they wont give up anything whatsoever.”
Isn’t that essentially what is already happening though?
Another important factor here (and I think really the most important one) is whether or not Kovi wants to be a King. Does he FIT IN here? Would he be on board with what we are trying to build as an organization?
If the KHL is a, “real possibility for Kovalchuk next season,” I think that says it all. I see no reason whatsoever to bring anyone on board who isn’t 100% committed to wanting to be an LA King.
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I am a big Kovalchuk guy and would love to see him on the Kings. He would fill a huge void for the team, someone who could consistently put the puck in the net. He’s great on the PP etc. I know everyone knows what he does well, but at what cost? JJ i’d be willing to let go of, and i dont want Bernier involved at all. It all depends what other teams offer so we’ll see. I want him in a Kings uni next year though!!
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Ok, so here is my question. Would you guys be willing to unload Richardson, Moller, and Drewisky for Kovi as a rental with the intent to resign him before July 1?
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EASportsMgt:
Not Richardson
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Like i’ve said before, DONT trade for him. Just wait till July 1
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I’ll comment on this subject when I have some free time, but I just wanted to make a prediction in the meantime:
THIS THREAD WILL END UP WITH OVER 400 COMMENTS!
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Waves, sort of, but not really. Instead of not giving up anything, the Kings, say may be willing to trade say Parse, or Richie or Moller. SO that is at least something. As opposed to maybe willing to let go of a Simmer, or Brown if they know they could resign him to a long term contract.
The other side again is that a GM realizes there is no way he will resign with them, so why even bother giving up an nhl player just for a rental, unless you are Chi and think this is the missing link to the Stanly Cup.
For the Kings, that is not the case.
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Atlanta will not take just Richardson, Moller and Drewisky. NO ONE wants 3rd or 4th players in return for a superstar !!!
Let’s be real here, prospects and picks that aren’t named Bernier is what I would propose or I am waiting for July 1
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Hey Harry-
Not to be TMI here … but thank you for the titanium-esque “happiness” I am now experiencing after reading that Beyond the Score Sheet post. Awesome article.
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Unless the Kings could talk to Kovi and work out some kind of long-term deal, a trade makes no sense. Too much for a rental. DL is a smart guy, he’ll figure something out along with TM.
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1. Once Kovalchuk is traded to a team, that team can talk all they want. Waddell has no say once the trade is made. So, the team gets from March to July 1st to negotiate.
2. TB – I agree, adding Kovalchuk would raise the games of Kopitar, Smyth, Brown, Doughty, etc. I would love to get him for JUST his contract on July 1st but that is a gamble, too.
3. DetroitSons – YES, Lombardi WOULD pull that trigger. An $8 Million a year hit is much better than $10 million. Remember, Stoll, Handzeus and Williams will come off the books in a couple years. AND – In 10 years Kovalchuk will be 37. And we will probably trade him to the Reno Rattlers by the time his skill fall-off at the advanced age of 34.
4. Regarding which players, I like most of our guys but I think we would be OK both in the short/long term if we traded Johnson, Moller, Zatkoff and the 2011 first round pick (how lame would that be not having a 1st rounder at our own draft party?) Don’t get me wrong, I believe Johnson will be very good. But the Kings have a couple guys that will be very good that can take his place next year.
5. I hope every one here who so desperately covet Kovelchuk NEVER said anything negative about Rob Blake wanted to get paid max dollars. This is the same exact thing.
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I’d still rather have Marleau.
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As EA points out above, Kovalchuk’s unlikely to sign any extension now and K has made it clear his 1st choice is to remain with his home club. So rental makes little sense unless its cheap. However, Waddell is playing it smart, by forcing the offers to go high enough for him to consider before allowing anyone to bother Kovalchuk with proposals for a long term deal.
In the meantime, Kovalchuk and agent probably know what is going on and if they (K with the deciding vote) want to play for some other NHL team they’ll tell Waddell themselves.
I’m still in the dance with who we brung camp even if I will be pleasantly surprised if the King’s make the playoffs this year. I hate the lateral moves. It seems to me that it usually takes new players, however good they are, time to adjust to a new team and time for the team to adjust to them.
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Right, I’m with you EA. That’s basically my point. The nuance would be that if I’m GM and I’m giving up Parse, or Richie or Moller for Kovi, I’m going into the deal thinking Kovi is a only renta-sniper. In other words, have absolutely zero expectation of signing him. I can’t imagine any GM not thinking that way if they are not allowed to negotiate with him.
And to answer your question, no.
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DL is a smart guy – he single handedly put our Kings in the right direction. But keep in mind this isnt BFE San Jose (which smells like New Jersey in my opinion). This is LA (Hollywood) – a city that needs a face to put on billboards. I think there is more pressure to get a guy that will help sell jerseys (Kobe jerseys are still the highest selling in the league). I’m not going to make comparisons to the other Staples tenant, but this is still a business in the #2 market in the world.
DL is the smartest GM I think we’ve had… but keep in mind that he has ALREADY made an offer, despite knowing he can’t talk contract w/ Kovi before then.
Here’s hoping he’s not offering too much in return.
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Waddell’s put himself in quite a pickle, and he’s hoping like hell that some other team can bail him out. I have to believe that ATL’s ownership has already bailed on signing Kovalchuk, and Waddell has been sent out to see what the market is.
The KHL issue is huge, real, and probably Waddell’s backup plan–if the guy goes back home, and ownership didn’t want to put up the $ to keep him here, what was he to do?
This isn’t about a return, per se, but what will save Waddell’s standing in the NHL community as a GM. Heatley was mishandled, but the accident precipitated it, not Waddell’s fault. Hossa was basically a choice–him now or Kovy later. Well, later is now, and getting a bunch of on-the-cusp NHL players from LA for a playoff rental might be the best option he has to walk away from ATL with his career intact, especially if IK bolts home.
Were I in DL’s shoes, I’m putting Schenn on the table, I’m putting Moller on the table, I’m putting Purcell on the table, but holding out on the rest of the NHL guys or Bernier until Waddell grabs at it, keep him on the hook, then using the deadline against him to grind out a deal, probably losing Schenn, Moller, a 2010 2nd OR Purcell and a 2011 2nd in the process. Schenn is the key–after Burke failed to get him, it’s a feather in Waddell’s cap to make that happen, especially since ATL could potentially parlay some of that return that into a couple NHL guys from TOR. If it’s a no-go, go after IK in the summer and see what happens.
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I say, “Kovi, NO…”
Rental price: 1+1, maximum, and ATL doesn’t like the maximum…
Trade price (sined, sealed and delivered): 3+1 or 2+2, minimum, and we don’t like the minimum…
(apologies to The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai in the 8th Dimension)
I say, “Ray Whitney, YES!”
Rental price: 0+1 or 0+2, or 1+1 (second round pick or less)
(1+1=NHL player+prospect/pick)
If Kovi DOES come, betcha the price is more, and I’m an unhappy camper (because Simmonds is included).
If Kovi goes elsewhere, betcha the price is more, and most of us are appalled at the price, because it will be a rental.
If Kovi stays, then the ATL GM is TOAST…
If Kovi is signed on March 1st, it will be for greater than $100K/10 years…
If not, then Kovi is KHL for an astronomical price, and the NHL-KHL World War I will commence…
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Oh, and we might hit 254 comments (new Rich record…)
-peace-
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There’s nobody I would be willing to give up for Kovalchuk. Not ones Thrashers would be interested in anyway.
P.S.
I want your job Rich. Lucky guy!
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Frank (AKA EASportsMgt)…
I don’t think that the Thrashers would go for that deal. They are fighting not for a playoff spot so much as they are fighting for their very existance. If they don’t land a ‘name’ player in the Kovi deal it will be seen as a failure and they lose fans, somthing they can’t afford to lose.
Another thing… The max a player can sign for under the current CBA is just north of 11 mil per.
The NHL salary cap is a hard cap which means that a team can’t go over it no matter what. This rules out teams that are at the cap like the Blackhawks unless they can include active roster players who’s collective salarys are at or above Kovi’s current salary.
It’s believed that he’s looking for somthing like 10 mil per for 10 years. Anyone know how much cap room we curently have?
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Untouchables, in my opinion, should be: Bernier, Simmonds, Doughty, Kopitar, Johnson (imo), Schenn, Clifford, Loktionov, Kozun.
I honestly doubt DL will be willing to part with (according to The Hockey News) Simmonds, Johnson, Teubert and Schenn.. I think they added another prospect too, not sure, but if this is real, I think DL better stay away and wait for Kovy to become a UFA
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Why would Atlanta take Frolov when he’s also going to be an unrestricted free agent ? I would be stunned if the Kings traded for Kovi. Think about all the negatives this would create long term. UNLESS …… DL is looking to win the Cup this year. We can dream can’t we. Geez, I’ve been fantasizing the last 40 years what it would be like if the Kings would win it all. Then I would eventually wake up (LOL).
I/we can wait one to two more years. Stay the course.
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Bob Miller made an interesting comment about Kovi situation on NHL power play the other day. Says something like ‘Lakers are getting star players year after year and getting attention from people in LA. Like people were talking about ice hockey when Gretzky was with Kings. I think what he meant was that on business side we need a superstar for the franchise in LA in order to get attention from not so hard core fans or even people who don’t know the ice hockey that much. I thought that was a damn good point but as long as the priority for this team remains to make play-off this season, acquiring a sperstar would be the next matter to me.
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Bako -
I wish you would state that you are speculating that those are the terms but you wrote your post as if you KNOW that is what it will take to trade for those players or sign Kovi in the off-season. Truth is, NO ONE but DL, Wadell & Kovi’s agent know what it will take to make a trade or sign him. Maybe DL offered Stoll & Wadell came back with Kopitar? No body knows (well I guess Rich does too). Don’t forget DL offered Hossa a 12 year deal this summer but he wanted to go to Chicago instead. Lombardi won’t be afraid to spend money on Kovi this summer and he shouldn’t be, he’s arguably one of the top 5 players in the NHL. Again, I think if DL pulls the trigger on a trade, he will do so knowing he has a GOOD chance to sign him this offseason, but we won’t find that out until he actually does. So if it looks like DL has given up a ton for a rental, in DL’s mind, he gave them up because he knows he will be able to sign him. DL won’t give up the farm for a rental player, and I think we all know that…
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I don’t believe the Kings would be interested in “renting” Kovalchuk because of the amount of talent that would be required to get him. And if Atlanta isn’t willing to let anyone talk to him beforehand, this is all much ado about nothing in my opinion. Plus, I believe unless Atlanta can resign him, Kovalchuk will go to the KHL next year, which makes all this even less credible.
Unless some major changes are made to various bargaining positions, Kovalchuck will not become a King. IF he’s traded I expect it to be to either Chicago or Boston. Two teams who are supposedly Cup Contenders (I don’t believe either are, but that’s my opinion), and as Rich mentioned they’d both have the NHL talent to give up.
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bob:
‘Taint Waddell. That one’s Kovi’s agent, who’d never have a big name star as a client ever again if he removed his largest bargaining chip from the table before reaching it: Free Agency!
By not removing the chip, the agent is free to be bowled over by some offer after a trade, then take that NHL offer to Russia, to be doubled…
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Don’t want him as a rental…period! Good luck somewhere else. I’m not heartbroken.
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goldielocks, we have a superstar. His name is Kopitar. I see your point though. I do agree we should embrace our market (LA, Hollywood) and get stars. But WINNING is the single most important star, period, end of story.
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BTW…I haven’t gotten any work done today thanks to all these great posts!!!
I love this blog.
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TB
Yeah … I gotta get back to work, too.
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Work? Work? Work?
It’s only work!
There’s nothing more important than this stinking blog…
WORK??????
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I wonder if the Chicago and Boston fans are having the same discussion we are? Are they saying ” We are one of the top teams in the league right now, why break up our chemistry to get Kovalchuk? I don’t wanna move Sharp, Barker and Skille for a rental!!” Ha, ha. But when you take a step back and really look at it, how good would Kovalchuk make that team! Scary good!
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Sorry Wavesinair, but we don’t have a “star” and Kolvalchuk doesn’t fit that bill either. There are only 3 “stars” in the NHL right now, maybe 4. They are Crosby, Ovechkin, Brodeur, and maybe Malkin. These are the players that people who aren’t NHL fans will recognize the names of. LA residents don’t know the name Kopitar and they don’t know the name Kovalchuk.
Where I do agree with you is that winning is the biggest star of all. LA will turn out for a team that wins. They won’t know the names of any of the players, but they’ll still fill Staples for a Cup run.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=lebrun_pierre&id=4862815
Great story on our beloved Kings..
“Lombardi would not discuss names, of course, but we know he’ll be a player in the Ilya Kovalchuk sweepstakes. The GM has the cap room and the green light from ownership to go for this kind of big-name addition. Someone for the blue line is also on the wish list.
But neither move will happen if the cost is too prohibitive. For example, if the Thrashers demand that second-year winger Wayne Simmonds be part of the deal for Kovalchuk, forget about it. Lombardi has done a superb job in this rebuild, not only with his NHL roster, but also with stockpiling prospects in the Kings’ system. He’s willing to move picks or prospects, no question.”
Nailed it.
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Would I love to see Kovi in LA. Absolutely!! WE ALL WOULD. Let’s not speculate but look at what we do know:
1. Atlanta isn’t interested in goaltenders. They are incredibly deep there, so Bernier is safe;
2. If Kovi goes to the KHL, his salary is tax-free. That’s an incredible incentive. Only he and his agent knows if he’s considering this;
3. Knowing DL from his SJ days, he definitely isn’t opposed to rental players (Belfour played 13 games in a Sharks uni, remember?)
4. Not allowing teams to discuss LT contracts with Kovi prior to a trade is a huge dis-incentive to proceed;
5. We all agree the Kings have great Chemistry that shouldn’t be toyed with, so……..
Lets bring in Ray Whitney. DL knows him from the SJ days (Ray was the 2nd player drafted by the Sharks in the innaugural draft after the bum pat Falloon)and he could add veteran leadership, with a ring to show off to the boys!
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Paul -
But they’ll fill it a lot sooner if we get Kovalchuk! :)
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No way you give up any of our young defensemen for a kovi rental. We have more issues giving up goals than making them. We need more jjs not less.
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If you really want this guy you better be prepared to give up some of those players you all have man crushes on. You are not going to get Kovi for prospects and a bag of pucks…this is all about PR and Waddell has to sell this to the Atlanta fans who will hang him no matter what he does.
Waddell has to get back at a minimum one impact player and lots of top tier young talent…or he won’t get out of Atlanta alive. He will make the deal with one of these teams willing to move those assets that I already listed as a rental and than we take our chances along with the 4 or 5 other teams that he won’t resign with them.
The only untouchables are Kopi, Brown, DD, Quick and maybe JJ. Like I wrote earlier….Waddell will want Simmer!
And no way they want Frolov. I think he resigns with the Kings for $10M over 3 years.
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only way to get rid of our legit core would be if DL got to talk to ilya about a contract extension, give them johnson,frolov,purcell,1st rnd pick and 2nd rnd pick, even brown.
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Waves, you hit it the nail on the head that Kopi is our superstar. Also, does anybody that’s not a true hockey fan in LA really know who Ilya Kovalchuk is ?? Seriously.
Paul, you are also right. The only players in the NHL that you can compare to Kobi Bryant are Crosby and Ovechkin. Winning will fill the seats and create the buzz. Look whats happened to Tampa, Carolina and Anasleim. Win the cup, jump on the wagon. Start to lose (look at their attendances), “I’ll be back when they start to win again”. Ugh.
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Maz makes some real sense.
Schenn could make this happen, if we do anything.
If DL does something crazy, and ditches the rebuild, he better make it work; ‘cuz if we happened to fall out of the playoff picture, DL will be looking for a new job.
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Paul from Oxnard, yes, we’re on the same page as far as winning…and when we DO win, someone will fill the void as ‘face’ of the Kings to the general public and that person will most likely be Kopitar a la Gretz. The next step is for Kopi to start dating a famous movie star…
:O
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Jietoh,
understood, I was giving more of a for instance onthe money than anything else. And I don’t think ATL would take those players, nor was I insinuating such, I wanted to get a feel for how people on here perceive these players now that they have come in on some clutch moments.
Personally I belive that this deal includes Schenn, Simmonds, and JJ. I think DL walks and works the phones in the summer to land him.
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Grinder -
Kopitar is not a superstar. Superstars get more than 70 points in a season. Kopi is great, but in no shape or form a “superstar”.
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tantrum4, currently yes, totally true. He IS our superstar, but not ‘A’ superstar…yet. He’s well on his way though. This is LA and when we win, he will explode like, well, like a superstar!
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Tantrum,
I meant to say “soon to be”. If anybody here thinks that he will not be a star, then why don’t we trade Kopi straight up for Kovi? Wouldn’t cost much more money. Just sayin.
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cause kopi, kovi and frolov would be a legit line thats why
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There is also talk on this thread about a “Superstar” face to go on the Hollywood billboards and whether or not that helps fill the stands. I dont think Kovi is that answer however. I mean let’s be real here people, how many people in L.A. do you guys really think (outside of is here) knows who the hell Kovi is? DO you think the average L.A. fan who comes to a come now and then knows he is even a UFA in the summer and that we could land him to solve our playoff drought?
Let me help answer that. NO. No way.
The Kings have a marketing problem in my eyes, one that they are aware of but not addressing. PArt of that problem is the lack of marketing to certain segments of the community. In my job, I help NHL teams market to the Hispanic community. Something the Kings are lacking. Look at the Lakers, Dodgers, even the Galaxy for that matter, they can fill the stands because they have a large Hispanic fan base. Now that is not the answer to filling the stands completely, but it certainly is a big piece that is missing.
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1. 08-09 Penguins acquire Chris Kunitz and Bill Guerin.
2. 07-08 Red Wings acquire Brad Stuart.
3. 05-06 Hurricanes acquire Doug Weight and Mark Recchi.
I’m sure there are many more but you can’t say that trade deadline acquisitions NEVER amount to the team having success.
And no, I’m not a huge fan of Kovi.
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I don’t see the Kings and Thrashers as good trade partners for a Kovalchuk deal. DL wants to keep his current roster intact as much as possible. DL is willing to give picks and prospects. The Thrashers, on the other hand, need to keep a viable product on the ice for the probably sale of the team. Waddell is looking for NHL players in return for Kovalchuk, not picks and prospects. It just doesn’t mesh.
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NO RENTAL. anyone who would trade our future, which we have been Patiently waiting for YEARS, is NUTS.
we just need to tinker with a player with a conditional draft pick at the deadline. if we go further than a conditional, perhaps Sheldon Souray, who is submitting teams, his family lives in LA, he is willing to be traded to. but he would be no Rental and not selling the farm.
Kovi will be, i believe, a Blackhawk. they will loose 2 of these 3 this summer due to the cap. Versteeg, Bufleumg(spelling help!), and Sharp. all 3 going to Atl. would allow cap room and give Atl 3 established NHL players.
NO RENTAL. stay with the prospects and our young guns who are showing they are definite pros: for years to come.. there will be other free agents this summer. maybe Kovi available then. we are close. we just need a few parts.
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re: superstar talk
I think Doughty will outshine Kopitar, but not by much, as the next 3-5 years unfold.. Especially in Canada.
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Tantrum,
I also believe that Kopi will bring more of an all around game within a few years. Kovi is a goal scorer and 6 years older than Kopi. Just a thought, that’s all.
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This whole mess proves that this draft/trade system is archaic and costs the teams and leagues dearly, in the end. Players should have more ownership of their careers, and teams should be able to sell their property for $ if they want.
World football gets it right by using transfer fees and direct-player-contracts. Not to mention, salaries stay much lower.
The idea that a hockey player wants 8-10 million a year is laughable. In what galaxy does hockey generate enough revenue to justify that price.
NO hockey player should be earning more than 5 mil. a year.
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ATL is dumb, nobody goes to the games now as it is, and getting rid of Kovi sure as hell wont bring in fans
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Kovi: On The Point, Center Ice, right now…
Boomer likes Kovi on L.A.
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EA, opening a can of worms there… No doubt a valid point, but marketing is hardly relevant to this conversation imo.
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wow, what to think?
Of course it all comes down to who we’d have to give up and obviously there are pluses and minuses to everything. But long-term success nowadays is built by keeping a core together. But even that seems hard to do for any significant stretch of years due to contracts/cap/etc. With or without Kovalchuk this team will not be the same in two/three years. It sucks but good hard working players that you get attached to get expensive and are also wanted by other teams. Now that this season has shown/given us our VERY good core group, this team may get much better with Kovi – or maybe not. Only time and the chemistry found or lost will tell.
I also find it funny how a lot of the same people who, during a slight losing streak, are calling for change saying ‘enough of the rebuild already’… are the same ones on here during a slight winning streak saying ’stay the path Deano.’ You can’t have both. Or can you?
DL is quite aware of what he’s got to deal with regarding upcoming money for DD and others of the core. BTW, I think it’s funny that Kovi’s being compared to Hossa as, to me, Kovi’s twice the player. I agree that him running away to the KHL scares the crap out of me. I also would NOT want to see him in the Western Conference! If we’re ever going to really compete year after year for the west and the cup and not just the playoffs we’re gonna need to at some point grab one of these guys and quit letting them go to our rivals. We’ve got a great young team with loads of kids down below and loads of good picks still coming up. We can’t bring them ALL up. We’ve assembled lots of valuable assets and part of the collecting game is moving them when the time is right. NO Kovi can’t win a cup on his own. But look at all the recent cup champ’s, they did it with AT LEAST one main dog surrounded by a bunch of good players. In all likelihood Kopi’s not gonna be the guy for 2 or 3-years. But he can be a GREAT compliment to Kovalchuk and vice versa NOW!
So the real question is what does Dean see in his crystal ball when he looks at this team in the next 2-3 years? Like he did with bringing in Scud’s to help DD, is DL thinking of not just finally getting the Kings their “super-star” when the time is right but also looking ahead to when he brings up Voynov and Loktionov? DL has already said it’s time to make the team better not worse at the deadline.
here’s a very interesting article to ponder…
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/?id=307737
To get the max return Atlanta will have to let teams talk to Kovi’s agent. They’re just going through the steps right now hoping that some dumb team will come along and give them the winning lottery ticket for a rental. They’ll get a verbal on a best offer and then they’ll see who can beat it.
So, what to think? I’ve liked what Dean’s done to date. I trust the guy knows how to build a winner for the short and long term and I’m gonna stand behind him and all his crazy tactics or however/whatever he does, Kovi or no Kovi…
The Iroquois took this law into consideration whenever making a big decision…
“In our every deliberation we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations.”
I trust Dean to do the same, more or less…
Would I like to have Kovalchuk, YES! Would I sell the farm, (or rental only) NO! Thank god I don’t have to make this decision! Best of luck Dean, I have faith, but I do believe the time is right while Kovi is available and we DO have chips to play with.
Just remember, it’s a lot like a huge game of poker, the larger the pot the more you have to win… or lose! It’s always a gamble though…
PEACE ALL!!!
GO KINGS GO!!!!!!!!
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to elaborate on my last post, I think Pierre LeBrun said it best regarding Doughty:
“A common observation with this young and talented Kings team is all they’re missing is a superstar-type presence to further excite the Los Angeles market. Well, they’ve already got one right under their nose, even if they don’t fully realize it yet.”
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Doughty will soon pass Kopitar as our biggest star if he hasn’t already done so.
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Cristobal -
World footabll? I don’t think they’re getting it exactly right because I have never heard of it, and I live and breathe sports every day.
DB Cooper -
Again, what do you think Blackhawk fans would think of this? Probably the same as us. “Why would we give up three solid players off of our roster for a rental when we win just about every game already?” Truth is, one team is going to, weather the fans like it or not….
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Waves, agreed, all the SuperStar talk though led me in. The Kings do need a face for the billboards, I just dont think Kovi is that face either.
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If he is a rental, you give up Frolov and Jack Johnson for him (since Frolov is gone as well) so it’s Jack for Kovy. We may be able to sign him during our exclusive four month window like Calgary did with Brew and remember, Kovy will like LA and it’s stardom.
If Waddell realizes he can get more if he lets us sign him before the trade, then we give up Fro, Johnson, and one of the three: Schenn,Bernier or No 1. Fro is gone in July and he is not worth 5 mil, Johnson is a head case and will kill us for years on the defensive end with his unsoundness, and if we lose Schenn, Bernier or next year’s No 1, so be it: we will be acquiring a hall of famer in his prime and you HAVE TO DO IT.
If they insist on Simmonds instead of Johnson, we do that, too. Yes, I love Wayne and his game, but his upside is not that high and we have players like him in the organization.
For those of you to mention Purcell’s name, sure, throw him in, but he is not worth anything anymore. Other GM’s can read the healthy scratch list like we do.
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Question – can anyone remember a player being traded to a team as a rental of sorts (or any situation where he becomes an UFA).. and then in the summer resigning w/ his original team??
I always hear about it as a possibility, but has it ever happened?
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tkachuk?
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Hrudy32 -
Bouwmeester comes to find from last year. Bill Guerin with the Pens, Brad Stuart in Detroit…
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I say we go after Whitney or a similar type if we’re looking at forward, or Souray on D, depending on where DL wants to add depth for a playoff run.
Go after Kovi along with everyone else this summer.
The bright lights/big city aura may finally be enough to lure a big name now that the Kings are looking to be relevant in May/June for the next few years.
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EA, you have a good point, but I think Kovalchuk is more of that “Showtime” player, that GMs and marketing folks in LA have always looked for. Maybe not a known entity, but a flashy highlight reel sort of player that a franchise can market. I don’t agree with this mindset, I just think that is where it stems from.
Personally, I respect the idea of getting Hispanics into the crowd for Kings games, but that really seems like a serious uphill battle. In general, Hispanic cultures are warm weather cultures, where baseball and futbol thrive. They just don’t have the exposure to winter sports. Hopefully, you could help change that exposure, but it sounds like a process that would take generations to take hold and only with immense ($$$) support from the community (e.g. affordable icetime & rinks in Hispanic neighborhoods).
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Question #2 – how many years left on DD and Simmers’ current contracts?
I’m hoping they resign them early, as they did w/ Kopi and Brown. They’ve got the youth, raw talent and drive the team needs in the future, and are very maleable players..
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i’d be willing to part with Johnson and Stoll, plus a pick if Kovi and the thrashers are willing to sign the extension… as far as a rental player goes, there is no way in hell Lombardi will give up Simmonds for a player who may or may not click with the team by the time playoffs arrive… i am sure Kovi will fit no matter what on any team he signs with… but signing him as a rental and then not being able to negotiate an extension AFTER you give up 2 top guys and a face off specialist. NO WAY!
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No no -
I was asking IF a soon-to-be UFA had ever been traded mid-season, then went back and signed w/ his ORIGINAL team (the one that traded him) once July and free agency hit.
I heard some say that Waddel might hope to trade Kovi now, then sign him back in the summer..
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FYI, The Kings Toronto game is playing in the NHL Channel right now. Just in case somebody missed it last night…
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dont trade the 1st pick!!, we have the draft in LA this year i dont want to wait around til the 2nd round for our first pick. trade frolov and some prospects… unless we get a window for contract talks dont throw anybody in the trade thats on our nhl roster. wait til free agency i think we will have some credibility after we finish this year.
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Hrudey32 -
I just checked. Tkachuk in 06-07 from blues to thrashers, then back to blues over the summer.
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I agree having a superstar would help the team and its image tremendously. That said, trading anything of value for Kovi under these circumstances is insane. I don’t think any team will trade for him as a rental till after the Olympics break; they’d have to pay his salary for 2 weeks of nothing AND risk him being injured during the Games.
If the Kings are seriously considering a rental, the games between now and then will be telling. If the Kings went 6-3-0 in their games before the break (and thats not a real stretch since the competition is reasonably soft over that span) they’d be at 75 pts and be almost a lock to make the playoffs without Kovi. The the question is, will adding him make us Cup favorites THIS year? No.
The only thing I’d consider is Fro and perhaps one prospect for the rental, since Fro is essentially a rental for us at the moment anyways.
And why doesn’t Waddell allow teams to negotiate contract with Kovi? Perhaps because it makes him look like he’s not trying his hardest to sign the guy, and he can’t afford that kind of negative slant on the organization’s desire to be winners.
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We all knew this day would come. I just wanted to add how beautiful it is to not be in a position where we have to make this trade.
If this deal doesn’t happen DL has so many chips to play with, we can expect to get a very good plan B player(s).
I would love to get Kovi because he is one of maybe 4 or 5 gifted players that come around every 20 or 25 years and this is LA.
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Anyone realize how potent that San Jose No 1 line is? How many points they will tally?
Now imagine a Kovy-Kopitar-Williams/Simmonds line.
ONE OTHER THING NOBODY IS MENTIONING: Kovy’s contract pays for itself with increased ticket sales. With all due respect to No 11, nobody is paying to see him. But with Kovy, there will lots of season ticket sales, including my reupping.
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Tantrum – it’s soccer in North American language. You know, the no.1 sport in the world?
There is not a hockey-playing superstar on the planet right now. My mom has heard of Beckham; Ovechkin? No.
I doubt 90% of Los Angeles has ever heard of Crosby OR Ovechkin. But I bet 50% of Los Angeles knows who Landon Donovan is, one way or another.
Tantrum, the whole world isn’t Canada. Have some perspective.
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On the contrary, population of hispanic people in LA is considerable. If the popularity of ice hockey grows there that would be huge.
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The Olympic freeze is another factor, here. IK’s participation throws random chance into the mix, in terms of injury or poor performance. Not that anyone’s doubting his talents, but if he just mails it in on that stage, especially with 2014 in Russia, his value is compromised (or at least the glitter in the eyes of NHL GMs dims a bit).
Waddell’s best play is to try and drum up interest ahead of the games, maybe get a little lucky and score a package he can live with. Most of the league’s going to want to wait it out and see if their targets are still skating after the games are over, especially on big-ticket guys. That’s going to be an interesting dynamic to watch over the next couple of weeks.
As to whether DL pulls the trigger, I think the old rule still applies here–whoever gets the best player out of the deal wins the trade. IK is a game changer, if you trust your coaching staff and your roster to deal with the new guy and the added expectations. He’s a natural replacement for Smyth on the first line, especially if Frolov moves to the RW and Kopi centers. RS/JS/JW is a very effective playoff 2nd line, moving Parse/Handzus/Brown in as the 3rd. Nothing guarantees a Cup, especially since we have very little (uninjured) playoff experience on the roster, but you put the best team you can on the ice and see what it brings you. I agree that winning is the “star”, but you need players to win games, and if trading a little bit of depth and some future solid NHL players gets you there, you do it.
The parable of Jamie Storr should ring in the ears of all LA fans who absolutely refuse to consider trading prospects. Yes, you need to have quality pipeline prospects to build a winner, but if your prospects become your entire reason for putting a team on the ice, you’ve lost your way.
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Rich Hammond –
Not naming names???
What good is having an insider if they won’t talk?
DL lied to you last year. Time to get even!
LOL.
Cheers
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Carol: I am pretty sure our salary cap does not take into account season ticket sales, merchandise, yadda yadda yadda…
You are extremely quick to give up on Jack Johnson, and if he really is as bad defensively as you say, why would ATL want him. Why would ATL want Frolov for that matter?? Give up one russian UFA for another?? Doesn’t make any sense on their part.
Oh and by the way… we still aren’t in 10th
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For those of you wondering why he won’t “allow” a pre negotiated deal
1) hes still trying to save face with the fans at home, stupid but yeah
2) By only allowing non negotiated he actually accomplishes getting a nhl caliber player because now playoff and cap stressed teams can make offers. lets face it, if you’re a stanley cup contender you have legitimate players.
3) In a non negotiated deal he also doesn’t have to worry about rumors of how many draft picks he’s turning down. Just player names which are far less likely to be leaked.
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I thought I would pull a reverse hijack on this thread since this Kovi issue has hijacked so many other threads.
I thought it was pretty classy of TM to put all of the Ontario Kids in the starting lineup in front of friends and family. He takes a lot of heat on this site and some of it may be justified. But putting those kids in the starting lineup is something that all those will remember forever. It also builds loyalty and team camaraderie. Great job TM
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does anyone have a link to the list of players allegedly posted on Hockey News that could be traded for Kovulchuck???
I want to know what ATL’s GM asked for. Help!
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I would love Kovi! But if the price is too high I’d rather go for one of the other big nanes expected to be traded (Whitney comes to mind). If you aren’t sure who is on the trade block, Darren Dreger put out a list of 10 on TSN. Here’s the link…
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=307761
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Best line of the LeBrun article is the next to the last paragraph – “The plan is working.” ‘Nuff said. Stay the course.
And by my calculations tantrum, Kopi could be on pace for 70 this season. 51 right now with 30 games left. Barring another streak of games with no points, looks to me like he has a legitimate shot to break 70. If he does that, will you consider him a superstar?
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Come on guys, stop posting so much…
I’m trying to have a life here! Yeesh.
EA,
I’ve got Puerto Ricans in my building.
(a beer on me for the first to get that reference right)
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Home Ice/Rob Higgins said this morning that for Kovi, the Kings would have to give up JJ, Simmer & Bernier
Ha ha ha. To name two — and maybe three — players that are untouchable.
As a rental, the only player that is expandable [sic] is Johnson. He and Lombardi will not get along in the future, and let’s face it; he is not the player we were expecting.
It really doesn’t matter if Johnson like Lombardi or understands him or if Lombardi thinks JJ is an ass, as long as JJ accepts the assignment of embracing the system and getting better. If he continues to do that, Lombardi loves JJ and he holds all the cards. He will wait for him to turn into a star.
And take THAT Matt Barry!
I guess I missed the Barry-related part of the post. I don’t think Matt has said anything that isn’t generally accepted to be true.
The list is a bit steep, but it is the beginning of trade talks. Speculation is that they want JJ, and/or Moller, or Simmonds, and prospects Brayden Schenn, Colton Teubert, Brandon Kozun and Andrei Loktionov. If we can’t speak to Kovalchuk before the deal, then there is no reason to talk with Atlanta whatsoever.
Uh, read closely. The Hockey News did not report anything about what was on the list. Underline: they’re pulling it out of their colon.
Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind why Waddell wouldn’t let teams negotiate a contract? Wouldn’t that give him maximum value in a trade?
Because Waddell is still trying to sign him. Once it comes time to accept a deal, he will allow the phone call to the agent, and he will get his maximum value…unless he decides to double-down and keep him for the playoffs. Don’t rule it out. Atlanta’s value as a franchise is exponentially less without Kovalchuk.
Simmer or Bernier + Parse or Moller + Teubert or Schenn and we’ll throw in Purcell and we have a deal?
Simmonds is not available. Bernier is not available. Parse is not sweetening the deal. Moller would be attractive to them as a second or third piece, but is probably not available. Schenn is not available. Teubert might be available.
Frolov+ Tubert+ 2nd
Not enough, even for a rental.
Look what DL did in San Jose, to get Joe thorton.
Wasn’t Lombardi.
Would you guys be willing to unload Richardson, Moller, and Drewisky [sic] for Kovi as a rental with the intent to resign him before July 1?
Not enough and too much. It’s going to take a bigger roster player, I think, and anyway I would rather give up — say — Stoll, than those three. Remember that, no matter who you send to ATL, to re-sign Kovalchuk at least one big salary is going to have to go. And if you’re not planning on re-signing him, there’s no point.
You might trade for him as a rental and hope to sign him. But if you don’t think you will sign him, the trade is off the table. It’s stupid.
Were I in DL’s shoes, I’m putting Schenn on the table, I’m putting Moller on the table, I’m putting Purcell on the table, but holding out on the rest of the NHL guys or Bernier until Waddell grabs at it, keep him on the hook, then using the deadline against him to grind out a deal, probably losing Schenn, Moller, a 2010 2nd OR Purcell and a 2011 2nd in the process. Schenn is the key–after Burke failed to get him, it’s a feather in Waddell’s cap to make that happen
I would be shocked if Schenn is in play. This is a Lombardi-type player. Kovalchuk is not. There is absolutely no reason to deal Schenn, none.
The NHL salary cap is a hard cap which means that a team can’t go over it no matter what. This rules out teams that are at the cap like the Blackhawks unless they can include active roster players who’s collective salarys are at or above Kovi’s current salary.
You can go over the cap by a certain amount in the summer, and you can exceed the cap by your bonus cushion with some weird restrictions. The Blackhawks are NOT ruled out, because they’re screwed in the summer anyway, so they may well decide to dump two of their $3-4MM guys on ATL and then just let IK walk in the summer, or else dump a third contract and sign him.
Also, Chicago can’t be ruled out because they’re insane.
Untouchables, in my opinion, should be: Bernier, Simmonds, Doughty, Kopitar, Johnson (imo), Schenn, Clifford, Loktionov, Kozun. I honestly doubt DL will be willing to part with (according to The Hockey News) Simmonds, Johnson, Teubert and Schenn.. I think they added another prospect too, not sure, but if this is real, I think DL better stay away and wait for Kovy to become a UFA
Atlanta wasn’t asking for all those players. The Hockey News doesn’t know who they asked for. And by laundry list they mean a “pick one from column a and one from column b” sort of thing. Not all of them.
I don’t think Kozun has risen to the untouchable ranks. I agree about the rest. I would add Moller.
goldielocks, we have a superstar. His name is Kopitar.
not yet he’s not.
There are only 3 “stars” in the NHL right now, maybe 4. They are Crosby, Ovechkin, Brodeur, and maybe Malkin.
Ah, but who has the most goals in the NHL since 2003? That would be Kovalchuk.
I don’t know anything except what I read, but I feel pretty sure about the following:
(1) Lombardi will not make a bad deal to get Kovalchuk.
(2) Lombardi does not feel pressure to bring in a rental for this season. Maybe a low-level rental with a negligible cost (e.g. a third line veteran pest; spare defenseman).
(3) Lombardi isn’t going to give up anything valuable for a rental Kovalchuk.
(4) Waddell, shockingly, appears to want to make a deal that makes him look like he didn’t get bent over. Therefore, a roster player or two (i.e. not Purcell or Moller, more like Stoll or Brown), and/or a blue-chip prospect (though maybe not if it’s two roster players).
(5) Waddell could easily hold onto IK and hope that over time IK realizes his expectations re contract are out of whack. That may seem crazy; but Atlanta the franchise is basically one of seven flavors of screwed if Kovalchuk leaves, no matter what the return is.
(6) If I had to guess, I would guess that Lombardi’s untouchable list includes: Doughty, Simmonds, Loktionov, Voynov, Schenn, Clifford, Hickey, Moller, Johnson, Scuderi, Greene, Quick and Bernier. If I had to guess, I would say that one of Teubert or Muzzin is available, one of Jones or Zatkoff are available, and, yes, one or two of Stoll, Williams, Frolov, Handzus or Brown are available.
I assume that if it looks like a rental, DL will likely wait for 7/1, if it looks like a “hockey deal,” he will be willing to give up something like:
Stoll, Williams, (Zatkoff or Jones) and a high pick for Kovalchuk and Esposito.
And I really think that’s about as good an offer as Waddell is going to get.
(if you think Chicago will do better, consider that Chicago can ONLY consider a rental unless they move so many players that it would be absurd and suicidal — not that they’re above that. So let’s just say they might, because they’re nuts. But that’s a lot of chemistry to upset, during a year in which they already have to bring home the cup before their summer self-destruction…and they don’t even need scoring.)
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Thanks Luuuuuucc… RE: rentals getting returned.
Tkathuck is a relic. Homey was great back in the day though. Same w/ Owen Nolan. They’re a rare breed (Amonte, early Jeremy Roenick..).
You know who doesnt get enough credit in this blog? ZUS. The quiet heart of the team..
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And by my calculations tantrum, Kopi could be on pace for 70 this season. 51 right now with 30 games left. Barring another streak of games with no points, looks to me like he has a legitimate shot to break 70. If he does that, will you consider him a superstar?
70 what? Points? That barely gets him into the top 40 scorers in the league. How much of his salary would he be giving back in that scenario?
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Some of you are forgetting that Marleau is also a UFA this summer ;) Also i say we go after Whitney who is a UFA after this year we get him for a 2nd round pick.
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I disagree with the love affair with the “superstar”
Winning is the only thing that matters. Winning is what makes players become “superstars” not the opposite.
Fans..casual and hardcore will come out and support a winning team.
Nobody outside of hockey knows anything about Ilya Kovalchuk..NOBODY!
I can guarantee you that 95% of people probably think he’s a tennis player or something.
If he came to LA and won, then he’d become a household name.
Or if the Kings win and Doughty and Kopitar lead the way…they will become household names to everyone in the region.
The idea that if the Dodgers didn’t have Manny they would be playing to half empty stadium is either completely ludicrous, or the fans in LA are beyond pathetic and don’t deserve a baseball team or any other professional sports team. Talk about shallow!
You expect people to believe that they show up for 3 hours to watch a guy bat 4 times and nothing else? cmon
That’s beyond insulting.
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cristobal -
Well my mom knows who Crosby is and the only reason she knows Beckham is because he’s on TMZ every once in a while…what’s your point? Ask 1,000 people in Canada and the US if they’ve ever heard of the NHL or World football and see what answer you get the most.
Kings Fan in OC -
Nope. Superstars usually get 90 points or more consistently during their career. Kopitar might do this one day and I would be thrilled, but as of right now, he doesn’t.
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Quisp….as always you summed everything perfectly!
I do think you are more than a little off on who you think are untouchable. I would argue that you have added so many players to this list of yours without any positions now or in the future to play them.
Your assuming that every one of these untouchables will have a spot on the roster in the next couple of years and we all know this is never going to happen. Schenn I can understand replacing Zeus, Teuber replacing OD, but none of these players have proven anything except in the minors….errr Purcell, LaBarbara, Storr, and 50 other former King draft picks or trades that were busts. Kovi is the real deal, we see it every night. He plays hard and he wants to win you can see it in his game. Will he fit in here in LA…who knows
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Why do you guys keep talking about the “casual hockey fan” not knowing anything about Kovalchuk? By casual fan do you mean someone that knows absolutely NOTHING about hockey? If you do, then I agree, they won’t know who Kovi is, and why would they? They wouldn’t know who Datsyuk or Thornton or Iginla is either, and they aren’t going to come and watch the Kings no matter who we get. But if by casual you mean someone who watches hockey here and there and might come down to a game once in a while, then I guarantee you they know who Kovalchuk is, and would DEFINATELY come to Staples and watch a few more games….
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Daniel
This is in no way comparable to the Blake situation.
Last I checked .. Kovalchuck is actually playing hard with his current team.
Blake skated like a retiree his last year here before going to SJ and playing like a stud.
No forgiveness here … No jersey in the rafters.
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I don’t believe we should give anything other than possibly cash to rent a player for a few months. Dismantling our core and reserves for a brief fling is suicidal.
This trade should ONLY happen if we can sign him long term.
Otherwise it’s two steps forward and one step back.
Kovalchuk is not the answer by himself. It’s a team game and if we destroy the core and chemistry we’ve worked so hard to create for one player, we are back to square one.
No deal unless it’s a long term one.
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Ha, Ha. I just walked by the TV in my showroom and what were they talking about on Sportsnet? Kovalchuk! lol. What timing. Anyway they said the Kings & Hawks are the frontrunners and the Bruins, Flames, Sens & Leafs have all said they have withdrawn from the running for his services. Just thought it was funny since I’ve been on this blog all day talking about it…
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Purcell straight up for Kovalchuk as a rental. Final offer.
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I say no rental, unless it is just a couple weak picks. If it comes down to being a rental at a steep price, I would rather we keep out picks/prospects/players.
IF DL can negotiate a long-term deal and do a sign and trade, I am all for it as long as the price is reasonable. I realize 1 maybe 2 of the current NHL “core” guys might go.
I can accept this for a player of Kovalchuk’s caliber.
Honestly, outside of Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick and Simmer, I am game for DL moving anyone else to get Kovalchuk. Kovy is just THAT good.
As long as it doesn’t set us back at all, I trust Deano will do his best to keep this team on the progressive path forward and not wipe out all the good he’s done so far.
We have to keep moving towards that Cup!
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tantrum –
Let me guess. Your mom lives in Canada?
NHL or Soccer? I’m pretty sure soccer is more widely known, everywhere.
Quisp,
Kopi doesn’t have to be a star right now. He’ll be a 100 point guy soon.
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cristobal -
Who cares? American Idol is more widely known than both of them put together. I still don’t see your point.
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And more………..(sorry if this has been posted)
“NHL source told ESPN.com that the Bruins are very much in the Ilya Kovalchuk sweepstakes, along with Los Angeles in particular. While Vancouver, Philadelphia and Chicago also have reported interest, it appears the Bruins and Kings are the front-runners at this point.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4863310&name=lebrun_pierre
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tantrum:
my BlackHawk noting should have said, they are going to lose 2 of those 3 this summer. they cannot sign all of them. they have NO cap space currently, BUT, by trading those 3 now, they Will. and they are 3 established NHL players. and they as a team are very close to winning the cup, ALTHOUGH, i don’t think they have the Goalie. remember, HUET, is a KING cast-off. if he is capable of cup winning abilities, why did we get rid of him?
because HE’S not. there back-up is better, but he is totally unproven. NIEME(?).
Quisp, what you say about DL not trading Simmonds, and a few other statements about DL not making a bad trade, we are not desparate, ring true.
in my opinion: for WHAT simmonds does as a package, is as valuable as what KOVI does in the Stanley Cup playoffs. remember, it is very difficult for a snipper to be what he is during the regular season in the Playoffs, but you win with guys like Simmonds in the corners in the Playoffs. alot of lesser lights do alot of the shinning in the Playoffs. regular season is 1 thing: playoff hockey defense is another. to me in the Playoffs, Simmonds is EQUAL to Kovi in Value. any agreement?
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cristobal -
and yes my mom lives in Canada but she couldn’t tell you who the top curler or lacrosse player in the world is…what does where she lives have to do with anything?
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tantrum4
Disagree about the “casual fan”
If that was the case, why isn’t Atlanta selling out games with him there?
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B-Mullet -
I meant to add to the novel that I agreed with everything you said in your previous comment. Now, about:
I would argue that you have added so many players to this list of yours without any positions now or in the future to play them.
You’re assuming that every one of these untouchables will have a spot on the roster in the next couple of years and we all know this is never going to happen. Schenn I can understand replacing Zeus, Teuber replacing OD, but none of these players have proven anything except in the minors….errr Purcell, LaBarbara, Storr, and 50 other former King draft picks or trades that were busts.
Purcell was a free agent signing. LaBarbera is not Bernier. Storr, I think, got a raw deal, but I’ll give you that one.
As far as my list of untouchables, which was really my guess at Lombardi’s list of untouchables…well, first of all, no one is untouchable. I’m really saying, untouchable in this context, and assuming Waddell doesn’t go insane and say, “hey how about Kovi for Moller straight up?” I’m also assuming that the presumed template of one or two roster players and one or two prospects and/or one or two picks will hold.
Simmonds, Schenn, Loktionov, Voynov and Moller are all very likely going to play a while in the NHL. The only remotely iffy prospect there is Voynov, and I think everyone’s pretty confident he’ll graduate in the next year or two. You can argue about whether or not these guys will be stars, but I don’t think there’s much question they will be NHL players. Same goes for Hickey and Teubert and Clifford. How high is the ceiling? Hard to say. But they will have careers. Bernier? Is he Labarbera or Brodeur or somewhere in between? It would be crazy to guarantee he’s going to be the best goalie ever, but there’s every reason to think he will be able to at least have a reasonably long, spotty career with ups and downs where people praise him and curse him. He is a good bet to be an NHL starter. Moller and Simmonds have already proven they can play at this level. Who else? The others I mentioned, Johnson, Scuderi, Greene, Quick, have more to do with this season and the circumstances right now. Greene and Scuderi may or may not be expendable in two or three years, but right now, it would be crazy to get rid of either one. Same with Quick. Johnson, I just think Lombardi likes the kid more than people think he does. I think he will hold on to him as long as possible.
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Quisp/rest-
I agree that some players are untouchable as a rental.
Other then that, if I’ve learned anything about sports trades, NO player is untouchable.
In our case? The only guy I wouldn’t trade on this team is Doughty. All players can be had for the right price.
You’re right about Kopitar, though; he’s no super-star, hasn’t shown signs of being one, and most likely won’t be. A very good player? Yes, but not a “generational” talent, for sure.
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This thread is not only gonna have the most posts, but also the longest posts of the season.
Oh well, no matter….I am post # 200!!
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nykingfan -
Because he’s all they got. Add Kovalchuk to our lineup and we have a great team that will compete. Atlanta just sucks year in and year out. Look at Florida, they had Luongo and couldn’t win because he was all they had. Add him to a good team and they are no contenders who sell out every game since he’s been there.
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oops…that was supposed to say “Add him to a good team in Vancouver and they are now contenders”.
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Quisp,
I strongly disagree with you over the list of untouchables. You make us out to be a juggernaut and not a borderline playoff team. We are very strong in defense in our system, so letting go an egotistical and unsound defensemen like JJ is fine. Also, while Simmonds is a good player, he is not a GREAT player and never will be and, to me, GREAT players now or potential GREAT players in the future are the only ones who are untouchable.
My list is Kopitar, Doughty, Quick and Schenn. Bernier should be available with Zackoff and Jones behind him. I still think the difference between 8th to 10th place and 1st to third is a striker like Kovy. Look what Marleau does with Thornton feeding him every night. Imagine what Kovy would do with Kopi setting him up?
Again, Waddell is being irresponsible in not allowing negotiations for long-term deals. He will get far less for Kovy as a rental than if he can sign-and-trade. Thus, I think he will allow the sign and trade.
Again: Frolov (who we won’t resign anyway at 5 million), JJ and Bernier/and or a No 1 (mid 1st rounder next year) for a signed Kovy is a great deal for us.
==
Daniel
This is in no way comparable to the Blake situation.
Last I checked .. Kovalchuck is actually playing hard with his current team.
Blake skated like a retiree his last year here before going to SJ and playing like a stud.
No forgiveness here … No jersey in the rafters.
–
Daniel, Excellent points. Blake’s feet were in cement when he played with us. His influence of JJ’s fundamentals obviously didn’t wear well, either. Good riddance.
==
Vankings Fan,
Give me an effing break with your “they are not heading towards 10th comment.” You have no idea if they won’t fade, as usual. They have not made the playoffs since 2002! I have as much right to voice my opinion as you do. I pay 6K a year to sit in my seats and I have probably watched 90 percent of all Kings games since that playoff appearance. I’m tired of complacency and low expectations of this fan base. This is LA! Why shouldn’t we have a damn fine team! And why not a superstar leading it? While Kovy is not a DL type player, he could carry us in some tight playoff series.
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Carol, I was referring to 2001.
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OOOPS – Sorry, Carol, didn’t scroll up enough.
Matt George – I was referring to 2001. Same situation.
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I sure am going to miss Alec Martinez and Player To Be Named Later.
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Nice link to this topic from “Puck Daddy”….Rich is getting noticed.
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Purcell is clearly expendable also, but I would nix the deal if it doesn’t include an extension on Kovalchuk. I would hate to relive the Cliff Ronning Experience and risk bringing in a detriment to team chemistry.
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Blake hasn’t played like a “stud” for a long time.
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hrudey32
Tkachuk was traded to Atlanta from Blues and he signed as a UFA back to Blues
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I bet Waddell knows Kovi is going to KHL next season, and that’s why he won’t let any teams talk to him about contract.. cuz they’d hear the horrible truth.
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we traded our #1 that year, who was french-canadian and played like 15 yrs, the #1 the next, and Jimmy Carson for WAYNE GRETSKY.
we’d be NUTS, since Atlanta want proven NHL’ers, to trade our core of young players for Kovi. Wayne, since some may not be old enough to remember, was like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb rolled into 1 dominating player.
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Carol-
You’re absolutely right re a super-star.
I can’t think of any top team in the NHL that doesn’t have one. Most NBA teams do, too. MLB? Yeah. NFL? Yep. And throughout sports history? Absolutely. Not many teams have done it without the big guns
Miller is right about the Kings needing a super-star; it’s in our culture to have the big names, it always has been, and it always will be.
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I’m trying to find the alternate universe where Kopitar shows “no signs” of being a superstar. Clearly, he’s enigmatic….
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apparently wayne made such an impact we now spell his name “Gretsky” instead of “Gretzky”
on a more appropriate note .. what does the number “-25″ mean to you? well its not the temperature in Edmonton but Patty O’s +/- this season. Sorry kid, should have came to play early and worried about your contract later.
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Carol, Erberg…I hear the Kings signed this rookie named Drew Doughty a couple years ago. He might be a super star NOW.
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Hey Rich, you’re the most legit hockey reporter I’ve ever read…
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Forget Marleau already!! He will sign extension with Sharks before july 1st.. and he is putting up career high staff, so he would not be that cheap anyways.. Marleau or Kovy?? pretty easy to me. If Kovy would be playing with Big Joe, he would score 139 goals in every season.
I would love to have Kovy, of course. Not any price though, I´ll trust DL knows what he is doing, Kovy or not.
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txkingsfan, I caught that, but I already get called out for being a reality-nazi, so I thought I’d hold back on the spelling.
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We have a good, competitive, gritty team. But not a team that is going to win a Stanley Cup. The talent level – while much better than it has been – is still a rung below the true top teams in the league. At a minimum, we need a bona fide top notch forward/scorer to get us over the hump. I don’t know if Kovalchuk makes sense, but anyone who thinks we can just stay the course, keep what we have, and eventually reach the promised land, is looking at this team through rose colored glasses.
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220!! 500 or Bust!!
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Yeah..no. Doughty isn’t a generational talent..yet. He’s awesome, there’s no question about it, but a “Lidstrom/Orr” as of RIGHT NOW? Keep dreaming.
Kopitar is “enigmatic”, but he’s no “Kobe Bryant”.
Facts>statements.
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@ Rick – You’re right. No players on the Kings will grow. None of the prospects will pan out. We should immediately trade all our prospects for Cloutiers, Ronnings and a bunch of plumbers.
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Quisp
Again…I agree with everything you are saying. I just wanted to bring home the point about prospects being just that. With our current roster we really only have a few openings. DL has done such a good job adding depth we almost have to start moving guys and I rather move them for a Kovi NOW than a ??? next season or the year after.
People need to understand that prospects are chips and this is just a big poker game and in order for this or any deal to get done it has to work for both teams. Kovi is a world class player and you have to be willing to part with your best prospects to make up for the fact that Atlanta is getting nothing remotely close to similar in return.
We would all like to have Kovi for the next 8 – 10 years. Although Atlanta knows they will never get anything close in return they need to get something comparable. I guarantee you it will be Simmonds and maybe a Stoll and probably Moller off our current roster if we really want this guy and that still may not be enough….others will be willing to give more. After that its just a matter of what DL is willing to part with in prospects. DL has brought us this far, hopefully he can finally deliver us that one player that will put us over the top.
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Listen to what other teams commentators have to say about Doughty and Kopitar. Sometimes, Kings “fans” get pretty effing negative.
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(the above was @Ersberg)+
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Rich summed it up best:
At a minimum, we need a bona fide top notch forward/scorer to get us over the hump. I don’t know if Kovalchuk makes sense, but anyone who thinks we can just stay the course, keep what we have, and eventually reach the promised land, is looking at this team through rose colored glasses.
==
And all this RIDICULOUS talk about team chemistry. Edmonton has team chemistry, okay? San Jose has a bunch of me-firsters and they are a great team. We had team chemistry LAST year. And I’m not sure are team chemistry is that great THIS year with an uninterested and disappearing Frolov (who had to get benched) a defensive liability in JJ (who just had a major blow up with our GM) and Bernier SEETHING down in the minors because he is not in the bigs. And those are just the ones I know of! Dustin Brown certainly knows of MORE problems, or he wouldn’t call out his teammates every other night for not showing up and giving 100 percent!
So let’s put the “Kovy will disrupt our great team chemistry” to bed, shall we?
You wanna know what creates great team chemistry?
W I N N I N G.
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WTFK – Sarcasm not needed. Of course players will improve, but how much? Maybe you believe that our current roster – maturity and growth factored in, as well as talent not yet here – is going to win a Stanley Cup. I don’t. I think I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.
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I just want to say something about people saying were not gonna win a cup this year. Yes, realistically we don’t look it, but in sports anything is bound to happen! the Kings have played the top teams in this league tough, and shut some of them down(was,pitt). I believe if these boys can get into the playoffs with a consistent scorer they will go far! Im like drew i’ve only been a kings fan since the gretzky era. Ive always supported the lakers, and the dodgers. Not a bandwagon guy< i still support the Rams too! U have to look at the ned colleti's, and what kupchak is doing! This is HOLLYWOOD! and they want to see a star, a hype guy yes, but they want to love a winner! These kings are winners, if we get a kovalchuk, a crosby, some of u will be without seats on some nights. I want to see the day the kings are the hottest show in town.
with that said keep simmonds! Dont get rid of your work horse! I believe we can get kovalchuk, I like Whitney, and Penner myself, but i believe we can go as far as we like in these playoffs, this year! This team has no quit, and I think DL see's that. So DL make a wise trade pack the house and lets see where the boyz want to go this year! Its their puck! Aloha Guyz
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The Dodgers before they added Manny were a team just like the kings are now. A young team with lots of potential that was missing something. Adding Manny made an already popular Dodgers team created an enormous buzz around the country.
I think that adding Kovy to this Kings team could be similar to what happened to the Dodgers when they added Manny. Now the buzz wont be nearly as big as when the Dodgers added Manny, it will add a lot more buzz to a relatively quiet Staples Center.
Now if I’m making the trade, I try to push Stoll and Williams as the centerpiece to this deal. Both have a couple years left on their contracts, and replenish some of the skill Atlanta loses in Kovy. I feel that Schenn will ultimately take Stoll’s spot and Kovy will take Williams’. So say those two plus another prospect and a 2nd round pick and I could live with that.
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I don’t think there’s a single effing person here who’s saying the Kings should never make a move again. Most of us are saying you people who are freaking out need to calm down and recognize that DL will make moves when they are workable, and he’s not going to sell the future for the present. It takes more time and patience than you’re giving him credit for.
There’s no combination of not-selling-the-future that’s going to get the Kings to the finals this season, so some of you need to cool your jets.
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This thread is the PERFECT example of why we need to be able to reply to individual comments. It’s completely out of control. EJECT BUTTON <———-just hit it.
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@ Rick – Sarcasm is always needed in the face of hyperbole and hysteria. It’s a comic relief mechanism. You are entitled to be wrong, by putting up the straw-man argument that DL will never make a move again and is in the process of selling the Kings into eternal doom.
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If we need a superstar and are willing to mortgage part of the future, why don’t we just trade for Ovechkin or Crosby. IK is hardly a “superstar”. Plus, it sounds like the contract would be cheaper to. (LOL)
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Dude-
Again, they are amazing talents.
Amazing talents do not equate to generational talents.
Here’s a list of active generational talent examples in our league as of today:
Ovechkin
Crosby
Malkin
Thornton
Heatley
Kovalchuk
Lidstrom
Brodeur
Luongo
Hossa/Gaborik, I’d have say they’re on the fence.
I may have forgot one or two, but that’s all I can think of it at the moment. Even with that list, it could be argued that one or two of those wouldn’t make that particular grade. I think they do, because of certain milestones they’ve obtained(assists, leadership, consistancy, playoffs, all-star, popularity, etc).
And I’m not a negative fan, I’m a realistic one. There’s a monumental difference between the two.
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Oh, and Rick, your preceding “rose colored glasses” is on par with sarcasm.
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I can’t begin to imagine how many posts there would be if we do trade for IK !!!
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where’s Detroit’s phenom? No one expected Zetterberg (7th round pick) or Datsyuk (5th round?) to be the players that they are. They won a cup with a group of 4th, 5th, and lower round draft picks and an excellent goalie. Ovechkin is one of the 5 best players in the league … how has Washington fared? Even the Penguins have a two tier-one players (Crosby and Malkin) but they are nothing close to a dynasty. Do we need a phenom? I don’t think so. One player does not make a team – ask “Gretsky” and it does not ensure success. Edmonton even won a Cup post-Gretzky. So success does not logically follow with a player like Kovi.
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Tantrum,
What??? The??? …
You responded to my comment, which had nothing to do with popularity but with the way leagues operate. If you don’t know how soccer leagues throughout the world operate, why argue my points?
Carol,
I’m tired of hearing about how much you spend on tickets. I get the point and I don’t agree with SOME of what you say.
Try and get Kovi, yes, but this team has earned the right to make their playoff push with the current players. Frolov included.
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Solid point, Scooter.
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80% of LA residents did not know who Gretzky was prior to the trade. Can any other name be bigger than Gretzky?
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WTF Kennth: I apploud you for consistently backing our boys on this thread. I dont have the energy to keep it up as much as you are.
For many it seems like the grass is always greener on the other side, and that other teams stars are considered better than ours.
Carol said it best, “This is LA! Why shouldn’t we have a damn fine team!”
- Instant gratification is the only way, NOW!
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VanKing,
You have to be joking: Instant gratification? It’s been eight years since we made the playoffs, dude!
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*Grabs popcorn**
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For a rental player like Kovi, i would give up 1 forward and 1 dman, or 1 high prospect, but no more. Doughty is untouchable. Unless we could negotiate a long term contract, Only THEN would i give up more.
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Grinder -
Ya, why don’t we just trade for Crosby or Ovechkin? Why not add Malkin and Semin in there as well? Yeesh….
I completly understand where you guys are coming from not wanting to trade acouple guys for a “rental” that may not be here next year, but I can’t understand the people who flat out say they wouldn’t trade ANYONE for Kovalchuk weather he is signed or not. Are you just saying this to be an “individual” and not to follow the crowd? I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t want to trade a Simmonds, Johnson, Brown etc for a SIGNED Kovi. Are those players I mentioned good? Yes. Great? Maybe. In the same leagaue as Kovi or will they ever be? Doubtful. I know we all love our guys and I love them too, especially Simmonds, but come on, for Kovalchuk? I don’t get it…
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Critobal,
I bring it up for two reasons:
1) Because Dean Lombardi brings it up in every Talk to the General Manager: that we are season ticket holders and, thus, shareholders in the fortunes of the team; and
2) To show that I’m invested, like many of you, in the team and I don’t believe that it is inappropriate to bring up how much I and thousands like me have invested in a team that has not made the playoffs in eight years. That is why I’m so adament about acquiring a superstar.
But if I have offended, I won’t raise the subject again.
Scooter — Not sure I get your point. What round a player is drafted in has nothing to do with it. Without Dat and Zet, Detroit wins nothing last few years. Where they were drafted is meaningless.
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Kovi would sure look good skating in a King uni.
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ASK yourself this … who do you want to leave the team?
Fundamentally
You don’t get a solid player without giving up solid players.
There isn’t a player on this team I want to see shipped.
Stay the course.
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Carol,
Find a spiff
Toke a spiff
Reflect, calmly
The Kings will make the playoffs. They will grow this season. They will acquire players players who will help them today and in the future, as the appropriate deals become available.
Repeat 10 times.
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I don’t think there is any doubt that Kovi in a Kings Jersey would be a bad thing. In fact I don’t think there are many here that would be crazy mad about it. Thats not the point here. There are to many unknowns.
Yes DL is in the forefront of negotiating with ATL, That’s an exciting thing and it gets us all crazy and we want something to happen now. And I’m hearing from a lot of you, give them what they want, just get Kovi. That’s just nuts. We can’t even speak to his agent. Maybe that’s because he going to the KHL next year??? and then what? the brainless here saying we should sell the farm for him will be asking for DL’s head on a platter for making such a dumb deal.
Or, Maybe its because Kovi does want to stay in ATL, and has made a deal to bring in as much talent as he can get via trade, just to sign back in ATL next year.
There is no doubt you need to give talent to get talent, but you just can’t go in showing your hand and not expect to get screwed. The points to remember here are:
He is a UFA at the end of the year so he won’t bring in what he is truly worth (so don’t offer)
We can’t speak to his agent, so What are his future plans?
Did he actually say he wanted to play in LA? if so why wouldn’t we wait?
Superstars… another word being thrown around, we need to go out and get one. Just keep this in mind, Superstars start somewhere. it’s very rare that you get a Crosby/OV that comes out the gate a Superstar, teams develop superstars, we are developing 2. DD and Kopi. Not there yet, but coming soon.
Just remember that a Superstars needs a supporting cast to win games. (see ATL) One guy does not make a team. How many times has Kovi made it to the playoffs?
If we can get a signed Kovi; I think it will probably cost us, Brown, Stoll, Teubert and 1 1st. And as much as DB is my favorite King and I believe he is the heart and sole of this team. I think DL would do it. But only for a signed Kovi, and I would get over it.
My 2 cents
Go Kingzz
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…spiff, spliff, whatever…peace…
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Not offended, Carol.
You’ve just said it a lot. Plus you always want to trade players I like.
Cheers
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Scooter -
you’re kidding right? Where’s Detroit’s phenom? Well how about Lidstrom, Datsyuk & Zetterberg. There’s three. And the Oilers still had Messier when they won the Cup anfter Gretzky left, not to mention at least 5 other Hall of Famers…we are not even CLOSE to the Oilers from the 80’s and I doubt ANY team in the NHL ever will be. And Pittsburgh just won the Stanley Cup last year, sounds like they did ok to me. How do you know they aren’t a dynasty? Do you have a crystal ball and can see in the future?
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my point was that it is not the superstars that win Cups, it is the team. so many of you think that you add one player and the Cup is ours – it rarely, if ever, happens that way. I merely put the round the player was selected to show how even prospects (i.e. lower round players) can come together and be successful. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are nothing without Holmstrom, Lidstrom, Kronwall, Osgood. One player does not make a team.
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Just to add to some very rational comments, Kingzzfan, IMO, the Hockey Press have already anointed Drew Doughty as a SuperStar. I really thought that became apparent last night (there have been times earlier, but not like last night.) He may not be yet, but some already see him that way, and in his case, it seems destined anyway.
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Who are half these people? Ive not seen Carol who? or half you people over that last few years?
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Whoever said it’s a “grass is greener” thing, was right.
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Kenneth,
We will see if they make the playoffs. Look at the upcoming schedule. Not sure. Certainly if we stand pat I’m definitely not sure.
Matt George,
You can’t be serious? An unemotional/univolved Frolov? He is GONE, either in trade or in July. JJ? He is trade bait and kills us definsively. I see both these players being EXTREMELY expendable. We have Quick, Bernier, Zackoff and Jones. Someone has to go. And as long as Quick holds up, it has to be Bernier or Zack.
So we have expendable players.
Kingzfan,
I agree with you. The deal only makes sense if we sign him beforehand — otherwise, trade him Frolov and a No 1 for a rented Kovy — (we aren’t signing Frolov anyway) and maybe use the four month window to try to sign Kovy to a Hollywood type deal (he apparently likes warm weather!). The No 1 will be the 13th overall or something like that and that is worth the risk of Kovy improving our team enough to make it to the second or third round…
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Tantrum,
Never said I wouldn’t want IK on the Kings. Who wouldn’t want him. But my take is probably similar to DL’s. Try and sign him in the offseason at approx. 8 – 9 mil for about 5 – 7 years. If this isn’t in the ballpark or acceptable, oh well. We move on. Why over pay with money and players. There’s other fish in the ocean to satisfy what DL is trying to build here. Time will tell.
Too bad there’s a salary cap, eh.
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I should clarify I think why I have been fiercely fighting the trade for Kovi thing.
I really like every player and prospect in our system right now, and I would hate to give any of them up. I would hate to tell any of them that we are better off without them.
I would rather see Frolov and Teddy Purcell and everyone else who has worked their asses off this year and the past 2 years, pass the Cup to each other than see Kovalchuk hoist it.
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WTFK, your right, it was nice to hear so many good things about Drew last night from the Leaf announcers.
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Here’s what I would do, if I were GM of the LA Kings:
Without signed contract – Johnson for Kovi straight up (and hope with can get him signed until the summer)
With signed contract – Any 2 players from the lineup, and 1 prospect.*
*The following players are untouchable:
Kopitar (obvious)
Doughty (future hall of famer)
Quick & Bernier (one of these kids will be the next Brodour, and I don’t want to give them up)
I think the above is fair for both sides. If anyone disagrees, let me know!
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scooter -
Tell that to the Vanocuver Canucks. They were nothing until Luongo showed up, now they are considered a contender every year. Where would the Sharks be without there 3 big stars? Pittsburgh without their 2? My point is basically eveyone in the NHL has a big star that puts up 90 points or more year in and year out. When is the last time LA had one? Gretzky? I for one think adding a superstar to this team will put us up there with the Chicago’s, San Jose’s & Detroit’s in terms of being a contender every year. No I don’t expect us to win the Cup all the time and especially not this year, but if you add one star and the team does well, then another will come along, and another, and players will take pay cuts to play here, just because they know it is a winning organization and soon you’re in the playoofs for 15 years in a row and have a couple Cups along the way like Detroit.
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Grinder…
Kovalchuk hardly a superstar? Really? I mean…really? Not being sarcastic at all?
The guy has 613 points in 591 games. He’s won the Rocket Richard trophy for most goals in 2004. He’s represented Russia as a shoe in at every single international tournament he’s qualified for including this years olympics. Minus ovechkin, he’s the deadliest 1 on 1 scoring threat in the league.
Agree or disagree with the trade, you’re entitled as anyone to your opinion. But saying that he’s not a star player…thats just plain wrong. His career has been handicapped by playing in Atlanta. Imagine what he’d produce with a true contender. And imagine how big of a draw he could be as the West coast’s version of Ovechkin.
And very funny about Crosby of Ovie…good luck convincing those teams to even listen without laughing out loud. haha
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Carol
The Kings arent resigning Fro? please post your sorce for confirmation, I’m sure everyone here would love to put that discussion to sleep. So what your saying is that our first round pick is worth making it to the second round? Not even close.
Your not the only one invested in this team, and we are on the right track, we will make the playoffs, we will not win the cup. Relax and don’t sell the farm for an extra round
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Um … Kings are cup contender already? I thought making play-off is the priority this season. Undoubtedly, Kovi would be a great addition for the team but do we really need him now to make a play-off by dispensing some of our young players with bright future?
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Carol:
JJ? He is trade bait and kills us definsively. I see both these players being EXTREMELY expendable.
If this is true, than why would ATL want him? or Fro for that matter?
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The snag to me about getting a rental like Kovalchuk is that, you shouldn’t start gambling with your future unless that one trade will significantly increase your chances of winning the Cup that year. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the Kings are just one player away from winning it all. This is a team that hasn’t been in the playoffs since 2002, and this is the first time in years that they’ve even been in playoff contention this late in the season.
A Kovalchuk rental would only make sense to me if the Kings were able to discuss a contract with him first. Seeing him and Kopitar on the same line would be absolutely fantastic, but can the Kings win the Cup with those two together? I don’t think they can, at least not this year.
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Tantrum,
I believe players will not take pay cuts to play here. In fact you would need to pay them more to fit their lifestyle here.
In the NHL today, you cannot take big names and big contracts. Chicago will have this year and then they will be in trouble keeping all of the big names next year.
I hope DL does not do something foolish for a player like Kovi.
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my thoughts,
A missing piece is never a $10 mil + player
A $10 mil player is a “chunk” that might cause the wrong ripples in the pond
As of right now the Kings are a little ahead of where I thought they would be. At the beginning of the season I predicted +/- 1 point of the playoffs. Hopefully now the Kings dont get that close. I believe the plan the Kings are on is getting the core and young players better each year. So far it looks like that is working. What ceiling they each have I dont know. I think Fro is maxed out. I believe he is doing what HE feels is enough on the ice. He could be a top 10 winger in the league if he dedicated himself to hockey more. Thats JMHO. Fro and JJ and some lesser player would be all I’d give for Kovi. And thats w/ the ability to extend a contract. Adding Kovi will change the team the direction. They wont be able to keep players like Simmonds, Moller etc long term. I dont want a sudden change in direction. That hasnt worked in the last 10 years for the Kings. The kings are an improving team. Let them keep improving from within. Adding Kovi might say “youre are not and will not be good enough w/out him”. I think next year or the year after when the Kings are challenging for first place they add a piece and not a chunk. Then the Kings are staying near the top for a longer period of time. Hockey and the Kings cant follow the Yankees mold. And I sure dont want them to follow the Mets mold.
And regarding putting fans in the seats. There seems to be great attendence so far this year. Winning like we are will fill the last few empty seats. And I dont want my section 110 top row center seat to cost an extra $20 a game next year.
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tantrum:
“Canucks were nothing before Luongo”
Please explain the division title in 03-04 and the great teams they had with Naslund, Bert, and Morrison. They haven’t been any better since getting Luongo. Second round of the playoffs last year was the best they have done.
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Scooter/others-
It’s a team effort..
The teams that are built with:
Generational talent(s)
Top-tierplayers stars
Vvery good/solid players
Fill players/role players
prospects/new players
All teams that have the listed structure have been the most successful. There’s just no arguing it. It’s a winning formula. Lacking anything from the top to the bottom will greatly reduce your chances of success. Period. There’s no denying it.
Washington you say? They’ve competed ever since Ovechkin arrived on the scene. Did the other players have anything to do with it? Sure, but they’re on that list as well.
My point is, if you have all of the available talent-types available to any given team, you’re on your way up.
It’s time for the Kings do the same. As a rental? No way, but they need to be in the running for a “Kovaluchuk-type” player in the near future.
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My 2cents. Over the past two years you can count on your fingers the number of times the Kings have been blown out of a game. They come to play. This spirit of hard play goes back to when DL first came here. DL has always been honest about what he is trying to do.
Over the past few years for the most part they have been in the game late in the last period losing due to youthful experience. This year they are starting to win those games! 20-0 when leading into the third period! I say this is a group of dedicated kids growing up together and now finding ways to put it away. Don’t toss it away on a single player whose ego may be as big as his salary demands.
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King4Life33 – I’d add Simmonds and Brownie to the no-way list.
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I’m shocked from what I’m reading here! Everyone is on the same boat and sees what a big mistake it would be to trade for the rental services of Kovi!
I’m impressed!
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So haven’t read all your (over 250) comments yet (I’ll do it when I have more time). I have been thinking however.
Bob McKenzie said Atlanta will want 2 quality players back. So, Fro and who? Knowing DL, he likes to get a lot of defense so he can trade them later. Odds are it would be one of them.
I’m divided on JJ. Quite a few in and around the NHL see something in him that I don’t see. As a member of the Olympic team, he has value to Atlanta as they try to keep the fan support in the hard market they are in. I just know that DL does think allot of him (Michigan aside, DL helped pick team USA). Don’t think he is going anywhere.
For us to have to give up any second “roster” player, I think the price may be too high given that Kovi would be a rental player. It is considered a “Sweepstakes” so he will go to the highest bidder. Keeping my fingers crossed, just don’t know if it will get done to our advantage. Hope I get proven wrong.
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JMFJ and Frolov will be gone by the trade dealine, for Kovy or whoever. Mark my words.
The Future Kings GM Hath Spoken
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TB,
I believe IK to be a “star” in this league, not superstar. If he was super, Atlanta would have been a cup contender by now. This points out that he does not have a “complete game” for which to build around.
Just my own opinion and I respect yours and every other Kings fan on Rich’s blog. We all want one thing and that is to see Brownie raise the Cup at Staples Center in the near future.
Go Kings, with or without Kovi.
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Codger,
But that’s why you get Kovy — so we can win a lot of one goal games we now lose.
==
I can’t believe someone on this board said that Frolov busts his ass? He sleepwalks through games! And if you or anyone else thinks he’s worth 5 million (what his agent has asked), then I don’t know what to say…
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Good points, Running Man. DL always tries to keep cap space so he can protect his roster while going after guys who cannot possibly stay where they are. There’s reason to believe there will be some dismantling in Chicago and elsewhere.
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tantrum4 says:
January 27, 2010 at 11:02 AM
Grinder –
Kopitar is not a superstar. Superstars get more than 70 points in a season. Kopi is great, but in no shape or form a “superstar”.
tantrum4 says:
January 27, 2010 at 12:08 PM
cristobal –
Kings Fan in OC –
Nope. Superstars usually get 90 points or more consistently during their career. Kopitar might do this one day and I would be thrilled, but as of right now, he doesn’t
I was merely responding to your earlier comment that superstars get more than 70 points in a season which Kopitar is once again looking like he will do. If the bar is 90, that is another story. Won’t happen this season.
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I meant I was saying it once again. Not Kopitar is going to get 70 points once again. Jeez I suck at typing sometimes.
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Grinder,
He is a superstar but we can disagree about that.
What I do agree with you is that we are all die-hard Kings fans and want them to someday lift the Cup in front of our fans! Hopefully that will be in our lifetimes!
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…before the Blues, or the Leafs do again…
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pr0cess says,
*Grabs popcorn*
OMG how perfect, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TB & Carol,
I interpret a superstar as being a household name that most anyone would recognize, i.e. Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, A-Rod, Manning, Crosby etc. Just my own opinion about the guy. But I still wouldn’t mind him on the Kings so he can become that superstar next to Bryant.
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Can we all put to rest trading for Kovi as a rental.
Atlanta will get much better offers from 6 or 8 other teams with legitimate shots of winning the cup. No way DL parts with anyone with real talent or can even match what these other teams are willing to give away.
This is an all or nothing deal. Kovi signed for 8 or 10 years in return for what players should be the only subject of this already ridiculous thread.
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I think there is a huge divide between the players that would be considered “untouchable” in a trade for Kovalchuk if Lombardi is granted permission to negotiate a new contract with Kovalchuk and his agent.
If Lombardi were granted permission I would speculate that Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds, Bernier, Quick and Schenn would be the only so-called untouchables. Any trade involving roster players, particularly defensmen and centers, would require another rental to fill the void when they’re gone. Example: If Stoll and Johnson were traded, who would fill that void? You could call up Cliche and Voinov, but the depth our farm provides is young (except for Shawn Bates) and the Kings will need veteran pick-ups for the playoff push. Just my 2 cents.
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Oh well, sorry that didn’t work…it was this…
http://wiki.freetalklive.com/images/9/98/Popcorn.gif
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Does anyone have ESPN Insider?? They posted this:
“And the talks have begun — the Kings have offered a deal for Kovy.”
Wondering what they say.. doubt they name names. I’m too cheap to subscribe.
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Nice ken nice. So what happen to Carol she go back to hiding in the wings?
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298 people keep’em flowing!! 500!!
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We seem to have leaked a few, then.
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Carol,
No one is paying to see Kovi, just look at Atlanta’s attendance. People pay to see AO and Crosby. People aren’t running out to buy Kovi sweaters either. When Kovi learns a more all around game and starts to win the HART then things might be different.
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KOPI could get 80 pts this year….has scored more than 70 before…and is still so young.
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@Hrudey, here you go:
ESPN.com’s Pierre LeBrun writes that the two frontrunners for llya Kovalchuk are the Los Angeles Kings and the Boston Bruins. The demands from the Thrashers is reportedly a player, a prospect and a draft pick. Here are the situations for both teams.
KINGS: They have had “significant” trade talks with the Atlanta Thrashers about acquiring, multiple sources told The Hockey News.
The Thrashers apparently gave the Kings a shopping-list of what they want for Kovy — which probably includes players, prospects and maybe draft picks. (Jack Johnson and 2009 first rounder Brayden Schenn are possibilities.) However, Kings GM Dean Lombardi isn’t willing to give up that much — especially since there is no guarantee Kovy will sign a long-term deal with the Kings.
But if the Kings trade for Kovalchuk, Lombardi will certainly get to work on getting him signed to an extension. Lombardi has previously said he refused to trade for Kovalchuk as a rental. Still, he probably thinks he can convince Kovy to stay for the long haul because he has already made a trip to Atlanta to talk with Waddell about this trade.
BRUINS: LeBrun writes that the Bruins won’t trade their first rounder they got from the Leafs this year because that could net them either Cam Fowler, Tyler Seguin or Taylor Hall. But a source told him that the Bruins are very much in the Kovalchuk sweepstakes. The trade could involve Blake Wheeler, but they won’t part with Tuukka Rask.
This is a surprising development, given previous reports that they don’t want to pay the high price for Kovy.
Also in the running might be the Washington Capitals. They might swap Alexander Semin for Kovy, but that seems unlikely. Still, some league execs feel the Caps are the odds-on favorite to land Kovy, but they’re looking at him as a rental so the Thrashers may be more inclined to talk with the Kings.
The Chicago Blackhawks will also sniff around here. That trade would most likely involve Cam Barker, Kris Versteeg and Dave Bolland.
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On the top 10 list of “availables” listed above are two Maple Leafs. I tend to think that the Kings are looking to slightly upgrade this year rather than try and pull the big trigger.
If that’s the case, we might be able to extract out more than equal value from the Leafs by dangling Schenn out as trade bait. I’m not sure what they have that we might want, but I’m sure that they would overpay to get him.
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It cracks me up when people say they don’t want Kovi because it will raise their ticket price. If you wanna save money, go hang out at one of the local ice rinks and watch the peewee’s play. The real Kings fans here want to see the best team we can, which means at least making a serious attempt to get a superstar when he does become available..
Oh well, no matter….I am post # 300!!
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54-
People are not going to see ATL, because it’s..Atlanta.
The Flames bolted, too.
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Thanks Viper!!
Not much there…
Glad to hear DL supposedly saying JJ and Schenn being “too much” for Kovi. Damn Skippy it is.
No way the Caps would deal Semin unless he’s UFA. Besides he likes it there (would re-sign) and has been tearing it up lately.
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I’m am on my phone and haven’t read all the comments but has anyone thought that not allowing ilya to negotiate with potential teams is part of a master plan…
1. Ilya gets traded for key players on another team as a rental.
2. Ilya doesn’t resign with his new team as a ufa.
3. Ilya signs with Atlanta as a ufa.
4. Ilya returns home to a better Atlanta team.
5. ?????
6. Profit er…Stanley Cup
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Can someone explain this to me (without making this a 500-post blog)? How good is Schenn supposed to be?
I know he’s got great hockey DNA; that he got a few goals in the pre-season.. but doesnt he lack size? Making his talent and/or speed the only thing that’ll make him effective?
I’m speaking from pure ignorance, so don’t martyr me here. Just wondering why he’s such a coveted draft pick to you all. I havent seen much of him…
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Hey now dont shoot down are goals here today!! 500 post for a new recored.
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Gary,
that is certainly a possibility. Surely, Florida was hoping that would happen to Brew last year but he resigned with the team they traded him to, Calgary.
CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN why Waddell wouldn’t want a team to negotiate with Kovy? The price paid is much higher and he saves his job. He loses his job if he gets practically nothing for Kovy or holds on to him and gets nothing come July.
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My question is:
If Kovi goes to another team, (say, the NYR), will there be a general state of depression of the majority of posters on this site?
I certainly hope not. For all the arguments in favor of what Kovi would bring, please do not forget how far this group of players has come, without him or another of his ilk.
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@ Gary livingston
Yeah I brought that up around post 150 i think… haha
Whatever happens, it sure is an exciting time to be a Kings Fan!!!
Go Kings
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Hrudey32,
It depends where you look but I find him listed at around 6 foot, 198 pounds. Since he is so young he will clearly fill out to around 215 so in 5 years. So I do not think he lacks very much in size.
It depends who you talk to obviously but I would compare him to Chris Drury, Mike Richards, Mike Peca type of guy. Will be one of your best defensive forwards (if not THE best) and also put up 50 to 60 points a year
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Thank you Bako:
I would like to hear the Kovy lovers go up to our current roster and say, “Sorry guys, you are not good enough and I want a couple of you gone so we can bring in Kovalchuk”
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54Fighting -
Bad examples comparing Kovi and the Thrashers to Ovie, Crosby and their respective teams. Washington also has Backstrom, Semin & Greene and the Penguins also have Malkin, & Fleury. The reason fans are coming out to see them play is because they are great, exciting TEAMS. Kovi has NOBODY to play with, and their team sucks every year. Put Kovi on a line with Kopi and Smyth or Simmonds or even Schenn in the future and we will be right with Washington & Pittsburgh, and when LA comes to town, you know the game will be sold out. (Unless we go to Pheonix, ha ha)
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Carol
Thats the big problem with offering ATL anything. It feels like Waddell knows something that will lower the value on him so he wants to get as much as he can before he allows anybody to talk to them.
We all want Kove, But as a rental, You can keep him and we can go after other available talent that will fit with our system.
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OK, why the HELL Rich do you have to put up the thread of the year (Notice I didn’t say ‘Season’) while I was out all day? GEEZ! Actually, I’m kinda glad I missed ths one. I would have accomplished NOTHING all day.
I’m gonna need a few hours to get through all these…
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OMG Carol is back!!
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VanKingsFan -
Ya Van made it to the finals (in 1994!)without Luongo and had a good team with naslund, but were they really considered contenders and did they keep it up every year? No. Maybe in Vancouver they were (actually I KNOW they were in Vancouver, just like every year :))but not around the rest of the hockey world. Now, with Luongo in net, they can actually see a chance at making the playoffs and actually doing well. Making the finals once in your history doesn’t mean anything. Just ask…oh, wait..;)
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Of all the teams seriously considering Kovi, I would list the Kings as the least desperate contender, save CHI, who as Quisp has said so succinctly, are insane.
That means DL can sit back, hands folded, and do nothing if he so chooses. He can say, “Offer me something that would make me smile!” and, if he wants, just walk away.
What a wonderful position to be in!
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WOW!
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I don’t want KOVI…it’s too big a risk that..
1 – he wont re-sign with us July 1st
2 – $10 million/yr for 10 yrs = disaster when we need to sign KOPI…BROWN…QUICK…DOUGHTY…etc
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Thank god your here Cynic, they were trying to get me to listen to Paul Newman yesterday after i bitched about the “I Looovve LA song”
tantrum: Of course, In Vancouver the Canucks are the best team in the league every year, they just get screwed out of the Cup all the time didn’t you know?
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VAN…did you mean RANDY Newman, or did Paul do a cover? lol
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Hey guys:
I petition that the Kings play in Toronto at least once every year! That way, Canadians can see the team at least once, and can become informed about how good the Kings are…
…And how much better they are than the Leafs.
Then, trade rumors will swirl and threads like this will happen at least once per year.
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Carol-
The reason why Waddel is not letting other teams speak with Kovi and his agent is because they still want to keep Kovi if possible. So they are trying to negotiate a contract with him and if another team comes in and offers a better deal, then he obviously wont stay in ATL.
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For all of you who remember Steve Kasper, former Kings center….that is who Schenn reminds me of. Schenn’s a little bigger but not much.
I don’t understand why everyone is drooling over this guy? He hasn’t put up big number in the minors and he’s maybe 180 lbs soaking wet and will never be a top scoring forward in this league.
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Ersberg-
That’s an entirely different discussion about Atlanta and Bettman :)
Just saying that Kovi doesn’t sell tickets. Does Atlanta market him as a STAR – yes. Does it help – no. If they were winning it might be different BUT win or lose people PAY to see OV and Crosby even if Washingtion or Pitt sucked. They don’t – but in OV’s first year Washington did stink and people wanted to see this guy – they still do. In fact, how often do you see the NHL marketing Kovi? Now that’s the truth right there.
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I would love to play in Toronto at least once a year to see this guys head pop…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blyqTjb0wsc
You have to love Leaf fans…lol…Not…
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Darn you Ersberg you posted more! Let’s just say that I’m not opposed to getting him BUT I’d pay and be excited to see OV play and Crosby play but I couldn’t care less about seeing Kovi. I have NHL Gamecenter and I’ll watch Washington or Pitt just to see these guys, I don’t care for the teams but I want to see them – Kovi, no.
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Oops, my bad that was Tantrum4. Plus OV brought fans back to D.C. I used to live there and I know. The team is great but the casual fan wants to see the Amazing Russian!
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KingzzFan:
Priceless!
Do you think his mommy still cleans his room for him?
Absolutely priceless!
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WSH is unbelievable!
Two goals before you could blink last night…
Tonight, it’s already:
ana 0-1 WSH, 18:43 1st period
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Barry’s Mullet:
I have looked at 6 different sites now all listing Brayden at AT LEAST 192…. so not sure where you get your “facts”
“He hasn’t put up big number in the minors”
Here are his stats and you tell me where you think he could improve.
Rookie season: 66 GP – 28 Goals, 71 pts.
2nd season: 70 GP – 32 Goals, 88pts (near top in the league)
This season: 39 GP – 19 Goals, 60 pts, World Junior Team and still near the league leaders in points despite missing the time.
And as most of us know, statistics in the minor leagues are only about half of the story
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Bako-
I thought he was drunk and slurring at first… But I guess this guy is for real and posts after every Leafs Game. Man I sure hope he doesn’t own a gun…
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KingzzFan:
Somehow this guy reminds me of PipeMan, third period in Detroit.
He looks to be quite comfortable in the prone position (flat on his stomach…)
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KingzzFan:
Interesting take on Waddell’s position.
That line of reasoning would certainly lead a GM trading partner to lower his price.
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I just want to say I don’t see any NEED to do anything now or even by the trade deadline. the kings are playing well now, this year, and will only be better next year and the year after that. if the kings we’re serious contenders to win the cup than maybe you go out and make a deal for Kovalchuk, but they aren’t real contenders (even with Kovalchuk) so why force something this year. Stay the course and we’ll talk again this time next year.
That being said I wouldn’t mind seeing Lombardi making a smaller deal or two, sending out picks or prospects, to help lock down a playoff berth this year, but any move should be minor and be almost as much a vote of confidence to the kids as a real addition to the roster.
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Pr0cess,
You are too funny. With all this talk, it’s good to have a sense of humor about everyone’s perspective. (lol)
Now it’s time to sit down with my popcorn and watch the team to the south get whooped !!
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“don’t like the idea of a rental player period. I would much rather have Grebeshkov and Tambellini than Sopel and Parrish for a couple months…”
I hated this move when Taylor made it , in a last ditch effort to save his job, but in hindsight, DL traded Sopel for a second round pick that got us…Wayne Simmonds. Funny how things work out.
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Kingszzfan,
Which leads me to believe he will talk rental first, then if he can’t do a deal at all, he will let teams negotiate.
===
As for the guy who feels bad for a Kings player to feel not wanted, or unappreciated, if he is traded, I don’t know how to comment on that as it is completely mystefying. Maybe I’ll comment on it the same way Frolov commented when TM told him he would be a healthy scratch because he is not seeing any effort. As you recall, Frolov’s comment was…
S I L E N C E
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Van
I think you understand where I’m coming from but let me just bring home my point.
He’s one of the top 10 or 15 players in the WHL…not exactly untouchable!
How many games has he played in Manchester…ZERO
How many high picks have the Kings had that played in Manchester and never did anything in the NHL?
I get it….he’s 18 and his upside is unlimited but how many prospects in the WHL put up those type of numbers and never make it?
Like I said, he will be a solid NHL player but will never put up the kind of numbers he’s doing now in the NHL. He’s projected to be our 3rd line center in a couple of years…again, not exactly untouchable!
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@ Pr0cess, looks like 500 is likely!
@ KingzzFan, that guy thinks he’s Don Cherry!
@ baco “Do you think his mommy still cleans his room for him?”
That’s just what I was thinking!
“You’re supposed to be a better team than LA!” — Where’s this guy been the last couple years?
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If he is a rental player one of our second’s is to steep. Step away from the high priced free agents. Show me one that has helped put a team over the top recently and it will be the first. The one that sticks out to most is Hossa. Look what he did to Pittsburgh. Remember Pittsburgh won after he left and they have their draftees Sydney, Fleury and Malkin.
Kovi wants Ovi money and he is definitely not Ovi. Get him as a smartly priced free agent or don’t get him. With Schenn and the others coming up we are set. The Cup will be within reach soon. If we wheel and deal it will not.
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w00t nice work here, but i drove home and this is all we got. Step it up people. I will make more popcorn and pass it around. Anyone notice how Carol is ignoring most of what i say?
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What’s the frequency, Kenneth:
I thought the little Toronto McFarlane figurine on his desk was just SO cute! It made me want to pinch his pudgy little cheeks and pat his fat, deluded head.
Remember the song, ‘I’m not in love’ by 10cc?
“It hides a nasty stain that’s lying there…
Big boys don’t cry! Big boys don’t cry…”
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That wasn’t Sweet Dougie Gilmour?
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Carol
We made a rental offer. Wasn’t good enough. End of story. if Waddell wants to make a deal and get players, he’s gonna need to let us talk to the agent/Kovi. My strong feeling is that he’s not letting anyone because, 1. He’s moving onto the KHL or 2. He plans on resigning with ATL next year. If DL had that knowledge, talks would be over. Kings don’t need a superstar rental just to get us into the 2nd round. If DL is gonna make a blockbuster trade for a superstar its gonna be long term.
Having so much invested into this team, I would be pissed if DL gave up (as you put it) Fro and a 1st just to borrow him for a few months. If Fro is on the block, then we could use him in another trade that will bring in a long term solution.
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@ WTFK – Yeah this guy is completely off his rocker. He’s blinded by his love of the Leafs. I think that’s what makes is so freaking hilarious….
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Barrys Mullet:
Mike Richards statistics: GP/goals/assists/points
2001–02 Kitchener Rangers OHL
65 20 38 58
2002–03 Kitchener Rangers OHL
67 37 50 87
2003–04 Kitchener Rangers OHL
58 36 53 89
2004–05 Kitchener Rangers OHL
43 22 36 58
Compare to Schenn’s numbers: (from VanKingsFan)
Rookie season: 66 GP – 28 Goals, 71 pts.
2nd season: 70 GP – 32 Goals, 88pts (near top in the league)
This season: 39 GP – 19 Goals, 60 pts, World Junior Team and still near the league leaders in points despite missing the time.
Would you kick Mike Richards out of your figurative hockey team’s bed?
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Mike Richards never calls back so ya kick him out of bed.
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344 posts (345 now and probably not done yet)! That a record?
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350… gotta be a record
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Kingzfan,
The issue is more complicated because Dean and Waddell are close and thus, I’m thinking there’s more to this story than we know.
But your rationale makes sense. If he is a rental, then you offer what they offered Brew last year — Frolov and a 3rd or Moller and a 1st.
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Gee, only 350+plus comments? Guess nobody cares about this subject!
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My guess: Kovalchuk goes to Chicago, and the B-Hawks win the Cup this season. Atlanta gets a nice package for the rental … and Kovy signs with the Kings over the summer!
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Carol
That’s probably more along the lines of what
Waddell wants + a prospect. DL’s not looking for a rental in Kovy. I’m guessing they are probably on the same page of who DL will give and who Waddell will take, but I’m guessing DL wont pull the trigger until he talks with the Kovy Camp… Kovy does not = rental for the Kings.
Wow I’ve spelled Kovy 4 different ways in this thread alone… hahah another new record…
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The real story
atlanta wants simmonds and johnson for Kovi. Lombardi said thats not gonna happen. the kings deal was with jarret stoll, not frolov, but we’ll see how that goes.
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Frlov, jj, 1 prospect, and 3rd round pick for kovy and 5th round pick. Moller as a deal breaker.
Frolov is in his last year so we can unload him. JJ has been shaky with DL. I won’t give up more than 2 prospects but I know Schenn and Bernier are untouchable. 3rd round pick to sweeten up the deal and use Moller as the deal breaker.
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Funny….2 Days ago I was the a-hole for bringing this up. Now look at 400 post. Wow…..
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Gotta keep the chain going…
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I’ve been reading all these comments; many of them are really insightful, like Tantrum4 and 54fighting and others.
Of course we’d like to have Kovalchuk, but at the right price—that’s what DL’s looking at.
As for attendance and name recognition, Ovechkin and Crosby draw league-wide and Washington was revived as a franchise because of Ovie. After them, there is another level of stars that really excite the home team and have some league-wide fan recognition—like in Chicago or San Jose. That’s what we can have with Kovalchuk in L.A.
So do we need another Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, or Ovechkin to popularize hockey in L.A.? Well, Gretzky put hockey on the map in L.A., and it’s doubtful we’ll again have the best player in the league. I don’t think it’s realistic. Hockey in L.A. will never be as huge as the other sports. It’s too big and diverse and without a real winter. And last I heard, Gretzky’s playing days are over. We have our core base of fans and can add some more fans with winning and an elite player. Our attendance is pretty good now and Kovalchuk can probably generate more interest to sell out most games.
Take note Kings fans: Hockey fans in certain cities are fickle. Look at Colorado. With their great team of the past (Joe Sakic et al), they sold out every game for years. Now without the name recognition, they are not drawing, even though they are winning a lot and have a great team. That’s kind of a puzzle. Fans need to somehow connect with the players on a team and feel the management is not betraying them.
Anyway, for L.A. it would help draw some more recognition if we had an elite player, and Kovalchuk fits the bill, if the price is right. It seems he may blend into this team well, but we need a real commitment from him. Let’s hope for the best!
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hey, guys…what’s up…?
lol…
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Unless it can for sure guarantee us the cup I wouldn’t do it. And there’s no way for that to happen so I say stay the current course. We’re a dominant force as it is!
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If we hit 500 (comments) we’ll get consideration for the hall of fame.
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Bond…you were not an a-hole. The source you were using is an a-hole.
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So, I stopped reading the comments at around 260 so i don’t know if any of the last 100 touched on this but, going back to a trade idea I through out there a few weeks ago, if there is a trade, I see it being a three-way deal. If it is the Kings, an example would be: Kings player (Johnson/Frolov, take your pick) to Pittsburg, Staal to Atlanta, Kovalchuk to LA. That way all teams get value (that applies to their respective needs.) Atlanta saves face, Pittsburg get someone for Sidney to play with, and LA gets, you know, that guy.
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For you guys that dont know the guys here are great!
http://kingscast.net/
and you can get them on facebook too!
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Wow, I just logged on, 360 comments! I’ll comment first, then I’ll read the first 360 and get back to you.
Last night I made the case (Long-term) as to why signing Kovi would be a mistake.
There are arguments that renting Kovi for a few (hopefully five) months that might make some sense.
When Gretzky came to town everyone that played with ‘The Great One’ improved their game. Interestingly, after he left, the players that played better when playing with him, continued to be better hockey players after he left. Its good for young athelete to compete along side superstars. It can open theri eyes.
Started reading the other 360 submissions after about 80 of them, I have nothing to say. I agree with the majority (of the first eighty).
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patrick marleau is a UFA next year…
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Love reading you columns Rich, awesome job!!! I say take a shot at Kovi during FA. Asking price (Roster spot, draft pick, prospect) is too much, and even if we would trade for him now he’s not a guarantee to sign with us after the season.
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Darren Dreger Just said on NHL on the Fly that he talked to one of the teams who tried to make an offer. Said Atlanta wanted 2 roster players, 2 prospect players, and some draft picks.
In my opinion way too high a price! However as no team will go for that it should go down.
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I am very happy that for the most part most people on here are on the same page about using Kovi as a rental.
Rental players are used to help make a Cup run. These young Kings are playoff bound, but Stanley Cup may be a little more difficult, however not entirely impossible either. The bottomline is that we are not in a position to rent a player of Kovi’s caliber just to help us maybe get to the 2nd round.
DL has done a great job of building assets to help find the rigth fit. Kovi, may or may not be that missing piece, but I think we should stay the course, use the assets we have for a better fit, and make a pitch to sign Kovi in the summer.
By the way, great job as always Rich. You know however that all of us at the Suite party on the 11th are going to try to get you drunk for you to tell us what you know.
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I created a roster including Kovi just for the fun of it for next year. It seems rather possible to able to sign him to top dollar at least for next year. However as DD, and Simmonds become RFA’s the roster would need some major tweeking. I dont think see DL tying up his own hands like that. Anyways here they are:
AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
FORWARDS
* Ilya Kovalchuk ($9.700m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Ryan Smyth ($6.250m)
Michal Handzus ($4.000m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Justin Williams ($3.500m)
Dustin Brown ($3.175m) / * Brad Richardson ($1.875m) / * Scott Parse ($1.222m)
Oscar Moller ($0.875m) / Andrei Loktionov ($0.846m) / Wayne Simmonds ($0.822m)
Brandon Segal ($0.550m) / Kevin Westgarth ($0.525m)
DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($3.475m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.400m)
Matt Greene ($2.950m) / Jack Johnson ($1.425m)
Alec Martinez ($0.875m) / Davis Drewiske ($0.600m)
Peter Harrold ($0.583m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m) / Erik Ersberg ($0.750m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 23; PAYROLL: $60.264m; CAP ROOM: $0.013m BONUSES: $3.478m
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EA -
I like that roster a lot, except for alec Martinez. I dont think he is ready now or next year.
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Good to see some of you keeping the faith!!! We can do it 500!!!
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Wow KingzzFan just saw the vid. That guy needs to get a clue. Doesn’t even know what is going on in his own team. OH I am so going to watch him when Burke gets rid of all the players expected to go. That will be fun. Bookmarking him now.
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Yep pr0cess only 125 to go!
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No Kovi. No. No. No. No. No.
Simmer may wind up with 50 points this season. Considering how quickly he learns to do EVERYTHING that’s asked of him and how often he has sparked the team, I wouldn’t trade him straight up for a Russian thoroughbred whose own style of hockey is not ratty or physical enough for the playoffs.
Brownie showed what he can do in that Toronto game. He has that not-to-be-denied quality which shows why he’s our captain. I wouldn’t trade HIM straight-up for a scoring darling whose only stint in the playoffs produced a single goal. Once again, Kovi is too neat and prissy to get his knickers dirty in the kind of style that wins tough games.
Fro has been sucking hind teat this season, but he still can hold onto the puck and he’s BIG. It’s not entirely his fault that he’s been forced to alter his style. But you can see him start to absorb the lessons. I can’t say what sort of deal DL should offer him — Fro already makes about 3 mil per. But I’d hate to lose what he can provide just to get a short-term lease with Mr. Bitchen, who has played consistently on a losing team since he entered the league.
JJ WILL improve. He has the skills, the size, even the brains to learn the job. The guy’s still a mouse, for heaven’s sake. He’s hardly grown up yet. Are we gonna ship him off to another team where he’ll grow into a star? His goal last night was like a blast from Al McInnis. We gave up Murphy and Sydor and Zhitnik, etc. They went on to terrific careers elsewhere. I don’t want to give away what HE gives us, hoping to get a super-expensive super-star who has no interest in doing the down-and-dirty cycling that we’ve used to win games.
Assuming that DD, Kopi, and Quicker are untouchable, exactly what sort of “roster” players are we gonna give up? ATL has no interest in the Smyths and the Scuderis or any of the others.
The loss of whatever we trade away will hurt more than the gain of what we get. How long, God, how LONG it has taken us to get where we are now! We’ve got four lines grinding and producing — did you see how well even Ivanans-Moller-Segal played last night?
Kovi is costly pie-in-the-sky. Great stars don’t make great teams. Marcel Dionne proved that. And if we had a star-studded cast when we got to the 1993 finals, it wasn’t just Gretzky who carried the team. Look at THAT roster.
I think we’re on the path to creating that sort of team from the ground up. I don’t wanna give away ANY of what we now have just to put Mighty Mouse into a locker room filled with guys jealous of his contract.
DL, you’ve done a solid job. Don’t piss it away now.
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No Kovi. No. No. No. No. No.
Simmer may wind up with 50 points this season. Considering how quickly he learns to do EVERYTHING that’s asked of him and how often he has sparked the team, I wouldn’t trade him straight up for a Russian thoroughbred whose own style of hockey is not ratty or physical enough for the playoffs.
Brownie showed what he can do in that Toronto game. He has that not-to-be-denied quality which shows why he’s our captain. I wouldn’t trade HIM straight-up for a scoring darling whose only stint in the playoffs produced a single goal. Once again, Kovi is too neat and prissy to get his knickers dirty in the kind of style that wins tough games.
Fro has been sucking hind teat this season, but he still can hold onto the puck and he’s BIG. It’s not entirely his fault that he’s been forced to alter his style. But you can see him start to absorb the lessons. I can’t say what sort of deal DL should offer him — Fro already makes about 3 mil per. But I’d hate to lose what he can provide just to get a short-term lease with Mr. Bitchen, who has played consistently on a losing team since he entered the league.
JJ WILL improve. He has the skills, the size, even the brains to learn the job. The guy’s still a mouse, for heaven’s sake. He’s hardly grown up yet. Are we gonna ship him off to another team where he’ll grow into a star? His goal last night was like a blast from Al McInnis. We gave up Murphy and Sydor and Zhitnik, etc. They went on to terrific careers elsewhere. I don’t want to give away what HE gives us, hoping to get a super-expensive super-star who has no interest in doing the down-and-dirty cycling that we’ve used to win games.
Assuming that DD, Kopi, and Quicker are untouchable, exactly what sort of “roster” players are we gonna give up? ATL has no interest in the Smyths and the Scuderis or any of the others.
The loss of whatever we trade away will hurt more than the gain of what we get. How long, God, how LONG it has taken us to get where we are now! We’ve got four lines grinding and producing — did you see how well even Ivanans-Moller-Segal played last night?
Kovi is costly pie-in-the-sky. Great stars don’t make great teams. Marcel Dionne proved that. And if we had a star-studded cast when we got to the 1993 finals, it wasn’t just Gretzky who carried the team. Look at THAT roster.
I think we’re on the path to creating that sort of team from the ground up. I don’t wanna give away ANY of what we now have just to put Mighty Mouse into a locker room filled with guys jealous of his contract.
DL, you’ve done a solid job. Don’t piss it away now. PLEASE.
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Williams/Purcell/draft pick for Kovi, or no deal.
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THE PRESIDENT IN HIS STATE O’ THE UNION ADDRESS SAID:
HE thinks its a great idea to deal for KOValchuck.
HE also said that PURCELL SUCKS and SHOOT THE PUCK ON THE PP.
GO KINGS GO
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THE PRESIDENT IN HIS STATE O’ THE UNION ADDRESS SAID:
HE thinks its a great idea to deal for KOValchuck.
HE also said that PURCELL SUCKS and SHOOT THE PUCK ON THE PP.
GO KINGS GO
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STAY. THE. COURSE.
Let some other idiot team trade away mucho valuables for a Rent-Me-Kovi and attempt to sign him in the off season.
If Kovi really wants to play in LA, he’ll sign.
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I would be shocked if Lombardi made a deal for Kovalchuk without a prearranged contract extension in place. Giving up assets for a rental. Does that sound like Lombardi to you?
Secondly, how does Waddell expect a playoff bound team to deal integral parts of their NHL roster for a rental?
Hey we are having a good year, lets get rid of some of the guys who got us here, for a rental player. Makes no sense.
Personally, I see no reason to give up assets at the trade deadline for a guy you can sign for nothing (other than millions of dollars worth of cap space) come July 1st. If Lombardi wants Kovalchuk, he should focus on making his team as good as possible without him. The better we are without Kovalchuk, the easier it will be to land him in free agency.
And from Kovalchuk’s perspective, why would you not wait until July 1st to test the open market? What is his incentive to sign something before then?
My trade deadline wish list:
Sheldon Souray- big cap hit (5.4) but only two years remaining on the deal after this season. Imagine Souray’s left handed bomb paired with Doughty at the point on the first powerplay unit. Plus, he’d be happy as hell to come to LA and make it work here given his family situation. And if it doesn’t work out, his no trade clause expires in the summer, so we can send him packing.
Raffi Torres- Fourth line left winger. UFA this summer, under the radar type rental that could be a valuable playoff contributor. Skates well, finishes checks, fights. Oiler connection with Smyth, Stoll, and Greene. Shouldn’t take much to get him out of Columbus who should be selling at the deadline. Ivanans watches the playoffs from the cheap seats.
Eric Belanger- Sorry Moller, we need a bona fide NHL fourth line center. Belanger is better than that, but you can never be too deep down the middle, especially in the playoffs. Also a UFA this summer so if Minnesota fades he should be available. Price for him might be too high though. Carolina’s Stephane Yelle could also fill this role. He’s also a UFA in the summer and can probably be had for a bag of pucks and some spare Zamboni tires. Maybe throw in a lite beer and a cheeseburger.
Bernier should not be traded. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Teubert go though. He looked brutal at the World Junior Tournament, mean but dumb.
Richardson Kopitar Simmonds
Smyth Stoll Brown
Frolov Handzus Parse
Torres Belanger Segal/Moller
Scuderi Doughty
Souray Johnson
O’Donnell Greene
Harrold
Quick
Ersberg
Waive Jones and send Drewiske down.
Go Kings.
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One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned is that what Atlanta is asking is today’s price. Tomorrow’s price isn’t likely to go up. That price is also dependant on how well Atlanta does over the next few weeks. They, like the Kings, would call making the playoffs this year a success. if you give away Kovi too cheaply while the playoffs are staring them in the face, it’s game over for the GM.
If Atlanta starts to fold, you can expect the price/terms to be much less during the olympics. At a minimum, Waddell will hand out the permission slip to talk to his agent. At this point, he’s likely just looking for a desperate sucker.
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So 500 today!! that is the goal!
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I’ve been reading through all the comments and while some are intriguing, others are just plain absurd. Atlanta wants players off an NHL roster, but something leads me to think that they won’t settle for a handful of third- and fourth-liners, like some people are proposing. Yes, they may be dealing from a position of weakness, but the Kings aren’t the only teams in the running and just because somebody says that they and Boston are the two teams in the running doesn’t make it gospel. There are probably 28 other clubs who would love to have Kovalchuk and many of them are probably kicking tired right now as well. If you look at the Kings roster, they probably have less to give than other teams. Don’t forget, either, that just because you acquire a superstar doesn’t mean that that’ll bring you a cup. The Kings gutted their defense to obtain Marcel Dionne, so instead of losing games 1-0 or 3-1 they lost games 5-4 or 7-5. The Kings coughed up five first-round picks for Gretzky and all it got them was a Stanley Cup finals loss and the gutting of the team the following year.
Sometimes the best move is doing nothing at all…
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Oh please…please please please leave Kovi to another team. Don’t give up anyone!!!!! The team is really looking good and progressing every night.. don’t mess with it!!!!
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Didn’t the gutting of the Kings start after they acquired Gretzky and he was immediately the de facto GM? Ha!
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Ok people final push we have come so far lets not give up.
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clinwv –
Gretz kept on hawking Bruce into buying used Oilers. We got a bunch of “ees” from Peter Pocklington — Krushelnisky, McSorley, Kurri, Coffey, etc. — but didn’t pick up Messier.
But we had enough sense left to get Sandstrom and Granato and Robinson as well.
Taken all around, we really were a team of super-stars.
Still didn’t win the Cup, though. And after 1993 we went irreversible down the toilet for YEARS.
I agree with those above who say “stay the course”. Stick with what we have. It’s working. Add some punch here and there. But DO – NOT – SELL – THE – STORE for a high-scoring but consistent loser.
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To whoever said that Kovi could go into a Kopi like drought…NO…because Kovei has skills that Kopi does not! Still wouldn’t trade more than 1 or 2 off the current team and/or 1 or 2 prospects…maybe a combo of 3 and a draft pick, 1 or 2…otherwise tell Waddell to stick it!
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Keep em coming guys.
Kris, It was to funny. For those of you who missed the Video, Take a look at this Freak of a Leafs fan and be thankful for being a Kings Fan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blyqTjb0wsc
This will make you laugh outloud
Go Kings
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I think “deadcatbounce” (um, the name?) is spot-on. I’ve been reading the suggestion that we’d be trading Jones or Purcell, but the truth is that you need to have something of equal or closely approximate value to make a trade like this.
That’s the worst part – we’d probably lose two strong players plus a younger player with sparks of talent, or one star and one strong.
The best strong contenders (worst for me because I don’t want to lose them) are Greene, Doughty, Smyth, Richardson and Brown.
Zeus and Stoll are the anchors that the players seem to look to, so I’m hoping that means another team wouldn’t want them (because they seem inherently loyal & it’d be hard to turn them this late in the season) or we’d have enough sense to know we’d lose team morale and glue if they went. I like Kopi O.K. (not on board with ALL the hype) and I think he’s our Kobe, so he’ll be a draw even in a slump & that means $$$ at the box office. Simmer, too – people love the scrappy guy who won’t hesitate to throw down.
I’d really rather add another strong D-Man (for a couple of younger players with potential) than a super-star – it’s less cost and less potential to upset the team dynamic. I think chemistry actually is the best thing we’ve got, especially with so many of the players being young.
You win as a team and you lose as a team, but with a superstar, the whole team gets relegated to being background.
Last thing – it’s not rose-colored glasses, but I have noticed that when the coach reviews plays during the game at the bench, the team executes beautifully. We have a team that has a lot of younger men who may not be consistently focused on how they fit in as part of the team, but they obviously are happy here and want to succeed. It can’t be a coincidence that we tend to score the second we’re on the ice after the coach reviews the plays.
It’s not that we can’t get a cup with who we have, it’s that if we remind who we have why they need to stay on the same page & that each of them matters, they will not disappoint.
Oh, and GO KINGS!
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Almost there to 400!! Just 100 more after that. final push guys and gals. Lets do it!!
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OMG that guy needs some help lol. Let hope we have no Kings fans out there like that…
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“Kovei has skills that Kopi does not!”
That’s a response to a scoring drought possibility? It happens to the best. It’s happened to Luc Robitaille and Wayne Gretzky. Besides, Kopi is developing. He’s also a center, not a winger, and his responsibilities are completely different. Then there’s team defense. Kopitar has become a damned good two-way forward. If you want to know about Kovi’s defense, just google “kovachuk defense.”
‘nuf said
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Q:
1) Does Ilya Kovalchuk make the LA Kings a better team, yes or no?
2) Will DL really consider gutting the team to bring him here, whether or not he’s signed?
3) Does Waddell have any real leverage at this point?
A:
1) Yes. Short term rental or long term addition, he immediately changes how other teams prepare to face the Kings. Secondary to that, I don’t care HOW bad his defense is, you want him on your bench rather than on your opponent’s in a playoff series. Let me put it another way–if by some unholy miracle he ended up in San Jose as a rental for picks, prospects, and a midlevel roster guy, and the Kings draw the Sharks in the first round, it’s not going to matter whether or not he plays mediocre defense. There isn’t a d-corps in the league that can cover that much firepower night after night in a series without a LOT of luck. And we will scream bloody murder, call for DL’s head, blame the statue, you know, the usual.
2) No. So relax. Past performance predicts potential, DL is NOT going to give up half an NHL roster to get this guy, or anybody else in the league. Yes, there would be some moving vans out in front for one or two guys we know, and/or a few picks get shifted. I trust DL enough to believe that he’s not going to get absolutely rooked in a deal like this. This is not the DT’s era, or the McMuffin era. All of the people on this blog are following a BUYING team. Deal with it.
3) Not really–ATL feels more and more like a last-ditch effort to make something out of a struggling franchise that’s going to have to be torn down and rebuilt again anyway, and we could be in a position to take advantage. That works in our FAVOR. Being the richest guy in an auction room only means you have to outbid the other guy by a dollar–it’s not a percentage issue.
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YA love the returns on that, no def ect ect lol. why do we need someone that will not back check? were is Carol i need her to make some invaled point?
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My quick analysis of Kopitar:
Judging by watching him the past few years I believe he is developing into the Mats Sundin mold. Not overly fast, but big, powerful, skilled, smart, defensively responsible, etc.
He might never get more than 85 points in a year, but he will consistently be around a point per game for the rest of his career.
They seem to play a very similar style (I am thinking of a young Mats compared to our current Kopitar, not Mats in his last few seasons).
Any thoughts anyone??
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Lets not get that crazy leafs fan started he might come Kill us…
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I say if DL can get Kovy at FA for NOTHING instead of now, that’s the way to go.
My core untradeables includes Kopi, DD, Simmer, Brownie and Quick. Dat’s it.
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400 woohoo!
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W00t 400!! 100 more people 100 more.
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WTFK and Process: It doesn’t count if half of your posts are just proclamations about how many posts we have lol.
Here is what I would give up for Kovy. Stoll, Teubert and a 1st round pick, maybe a 3rd. That’s it and that’s all, and that’s only if we can sign him too.
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Dude…one post from me on that. You tied me with your comment.
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VKF & WTF,K:
One of the symptoms of Kovi Blogging Fatigue is that his trade value decreases and the explanations as to ‘why’ get shorter…
Wonder if that kind of fatigue (KBF Syndrome) occurs in real life?
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