After I settled on Anze Kopitar, Ziggy Palffy and Adam Deadmarsh as the Kings’ top center/wingers of the 2000s, it was time to pick the top two defensemen. One of the choices was easy for me; the other, a little tougher. Who did I pick? Find out here…
Also, the following link contains the picks of Bob Miller, Jim Fox and others, as well as yesterday’s picks for best game of the decade…
Tomorrow, goalies. Hmmm.
Blake is far and away # 1, I don’t care about the “haters” that are gonna come RIP me, the guy is just straight up a HHOF d-man so get over your anguish about the way he bounced town.
What he did on the ice speaks volumes and he did it big, hence why he is going to the hall when he hangs them up. I don’t think we can say that about anyone else on this list can we?
For the other D I’d go Visnovsky only slightly over Matty Norstrom.
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Lubo is a no brainer, I can’t give it to DD just because he only has a year and a half under his belt.
I think you could easily say Schneider, because of the massive impact he had. If not, Matty the warrior it is!
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For the top goalies section.. can we use other teams goalies that played the best against us … cuz i am coming up blank otherwise …
All kidding aside it HAS to be Felix Potvin, with Jon Quick and Matty Garon as runners up
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Lubo and Doughty for me….
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Lubo is an obvious and well-warranted choice. I blame Crawford for his off year. Didn’t Lubo have to switch the side he played on, or am I not remembering correctly.
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Blake was not a good player his 2nd time here and He only played here till 01 before then so I think thats a reason why he left off.
His best years where in Colorado in the 2000s.
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Blake was traded in ’01. Get over it….
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In hindsight I suppose he wasn’t as good the second stint back here, I just wish the guy would get some due love for all he did for the franchise and not always get dinged.
That said, I’d still go Lubo and Blake, but possibly Norstrom in there for for one or the other.
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Lubo and Norstrom. Doughty is already better than either of them, but longevity has to account for something.
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blake is going to be a hall of famer…so the “haters” will have to live that…
but blakie wasn’t the best this decade…
it’s gotta be lubo…for pete’s sake…he can bake cookies, too…(they looked pretty tatsy…!)
drew makes this choice that much harder…
but i agree with RICH – it’s lubo and drew…
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Its pretty sad when you look at the list and realize Modry was 2nd in points by a defenseman in the 2000s.
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Same as Rich… Lubo and Dewey. Who else is there?
Oh, and let’s not bash Modry anymore. He wasn’t that bad, and at times was pretty good. If anything, we ought to give him an award for putting up with our miserable need to have a whipping boy. How about “Scapegoat of the Decade”?
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Apparently I’m among the few that feel this way, But I take Matti over Lubo. Which would make my two Norstrom and Vis.
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For me it’s Matty first and Lubo second. Doughty will be better than either one, but he’ll have played only two seasons for us this decade.
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Modry? Are you f’ing kidding me??! How the hell did he get on this list – is this a sign of just how pathetic we’ve been all these years?
Norstrom for D.
Lubo for O.
even though he’s only had 1 1/2 years, Doughty for the combo…
honorable mention to Flake even though his best years with the kings were NOT in the 2000′s…
Kings (1990–2001)
Avalanche (2001–06)
Kings (2006–08)
Sharks (2008–present)
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In my opinion Blake and Doughty didn’t play enough during this decade to supplant anyone. I would have to vote for Norstrom and Visnovsky.
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Actually Rich, the goalie choice is the easiest of all – Felix Potvin… who else is there? Unofortunately no one.
On D it has to be Norstrom and Visnovsky. Blake was easily the Dman of the 90′s decade for us, but not 2000′s.
Once Doughty plays in a playoff game, we can talk about including him, but that will be in the next decade. I’m surprised that Rich picked him over Norstrom.
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Great choices.
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As far as D men go, names like Paul Coffey, Blake, Gary Sargent, Schneider, Doughty come to mind. If I had to pick two of them… I’d have to go with Schneider and Blake. Coffey was a little bit a showboat in my opinion.
As far as goaltenders, Rogie Vachon was our best goalie in our history. Period.
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Oh I forgot to mention Alex Zhitnik in that list…
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Lubo and Matty.
Doughty, while at this point is better than both, just hasn’t been in the decade enough.
Blake, no way. The return years won’t merit anything close to a best defensemen award.
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I’m going with VanKingsFan.Lubo strictly on talent alone.Blake because of the power he could display when healthy.DD hasn’t been here long enough to be considered the best in the decade.Niether was Quincy although Quince made a huge difference while he was here.Matty was a constant though who played a steady game.Consecutive games alone warrent consideration.Schnieder had the best shot out of all of them.I’m voting(even if it does’nt count)Lubo and Blake.
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LOL at all you haters out there. Modry was pretty good for what he was. Was he an HOF’er? NO. He made the All Star team. He was good during the ’01 playoff run. He deserves some consideration for defenseman of the decade. Definitely in the top 3-4 defenseman.
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Didn’t mean to leave out Modry.Like Quincy he was the right guy for what we needed at the right time.
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If I was going to put a team together to actually play though.I would make it with DD,and Lubo.
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The more I see of this debate, it seems clear that 2000-2009 will be forever known as the Age of Kings Darkness…
There isn’t enough time for the current young players to emerge, while aging players from the 1990-1999 decade did not do well this last decade.
I agree that Blake will be in the HHOF; I also agree that Blakey did nothing to merit consideration for the Kings Best of Decade.
DD already is better than Zhitnik or Visnofsky. My defencemen are DD and Mattias Norstrom, Norstrom for sheer toughness if nothing else. This debate shows just how shallow the talent for the Kings was this decade.
Modry was a great character King, a steady 2nd-3rd pair defenceman but should never have to be considered on this list. Just for comparison, could Modry at his prime ever make the 2009-2010 Kings? Just like the discussion about the forwards, talent was scarce. Think about it; hopefully Kopitar will look back at his years this decade as teases to his true potential. Then, the ‘if only’ players like Deadmarsh, Stumpel and Demitra… If only he were healthy… Or, fulfilled his potential as a King!
As a fan, frustrating…
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Let me just say Rich, that there is absolutely nothing premature about naming Doughty on that list. I think we all see the same things you do in regards to that kid… wow! My favorite King!
I also agree with your Deader pick, although that must have been the hardest decision of the bunch.
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Whoa, weird to see the Modry hate… did it suddenly become cool to poop on Jaroslav?? Go back and look at his stats when he played for us (the first time). He had three very solid seasons with us. Not a stud by any means, but did you guys forget the team you used to root for??
We were home away from home for journeymen like Modry.
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I’ve gotta go with LuboCookie and Norstrom. Drew has one (and in my wildest dreams, two) other decades where he can make his mark.
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My vote would be Lubo and Matty(one of the most respected King ever). The decade pretty much shows you how important drafting is. In 95, we chose Berg(3rd) instead of Doan or Iginla and in 97, we chose Jokinen(3rd) instead of Luongo or Hossa. In fairness to Berg and Jokinen, we rushed them into the league way too soon(Berg especially) and they might have realized their potential with us if the organization had been more patient.
I was definitely one of the Modry bashers for most of his first stint with us, but he was actually pretty good the second time around. Also, we got a 3rd pick for him from Philly which was a bonus
. Actually I’m surprised he’s still not in the league since he was a decent dman.
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To add another prop for Modry… What OD has done for Doughty, and what Zus has done for Simmonds — i.e. on-/off-ice mentoring — is exactly what Modry did for JMFJ a couple seasons ago. Or don’t we remember that? (Admittedly, the Crawford years are about as forgettable as they can be.) This guy is family!
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Norstrom got shafted. He was the team captain (and deserved it), the hardest worker, he covered for Blake when Blake got caught up ice or went out for the big check (which happened more than once), and he was tough to play against. No way you leave him out of the top pair.
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JP just wanted to add to your comment.He also had a lot to do with Lubo getting a good start too his carrier.
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lubo and DD for me as well, i think matti was the most overrated underrated player there was in terms of hockey ability. no question the guy’s got heart, but the last few years w/ the rule changes really hurt him.
VIS FTW
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Blake is far and away # 1, I don’t care about the “haters” that are gonna come RIP me, the guy is just straight up a HHOF d-man so get over your anguish about the way he bounced town. What he did on the ice speaks volumes and he did it big, hence why he is going to the hall when he hangs them up. I don’t think we can say that about anyone else on this list can we?
If Rob Blake gets into the Hall of Fame, he will be the first one with a negative +/-, hundreds of goals against behind the next inductee. I ran down these numbers a year ago. Here’s a cut/paste:
You can debate whether the stat could be tweaked to reflect other variables (e.g. quality of opponent — there are some fascinating studies that have done just this; p.s. they don’t do Blake any favors). But you can’t deny what the stat tell you: Rob Blake is on the ice for hundreds and hundreds of goals against MORE than his peers who will be considered for or are already in the Hall of Fame. Several hundred goals against. Even Paul Coffey (a.k.a. “Cough-up”) had a career plus/minus of +294.
I took a look at the stats of ALL the defensemen in the Hockey Hall of Fame. There are 75 of them. Of which, these 15 are from the era in which +/- was recorded (post-1968, I believe). They are, of course, some of the most famous names of the last 40 years. For reference, I included in parenthesis two players believed to be headed to the Hall eventually. Three, if you count Blake.
Robinson +730
Orr +597
Bourque +528
Potvin +460
Stevens +393
(Lidstrom +382) [now +417]
MacInnis +373
Park +358
(Chelios +351) [now +352]
Savard +344
LaPointe +329
Coffey +294
Langway +277
Laperriere +241
Murphy +200
Salming +175
Fetisov +114
(Blake -27) [note: he has since worked his way up to -16]
[end of cut/paste]
By the way, -16 places him almost in the top 1000 defensemen for career plus/minus. He’s at #1089.
Here are some guys with equivalent or better numbers, all within the range of +/- for HOF denfensemen, except Housley, who is fifth all time in points for defensemen (Blake is 19th), but who comes in at -53. None of these guys is in the Hall, and I would put every one of them before Blake.
Gary Suter
Doug Wilson
Sergei Zubov
Mark Howe
Brad MCCrimmon
Kevin Lowe
Phil Housley
Clearly, in Housley’s case, with 500 more points than Blake, it’s the plus/minus that has kept him out of the Hall. I think he should be in, because of his incredible offensive skills. But if he’s not in, then Blake is certainly not deserving.
Right next to Blake in career points for defensemen: Steve Duchesne. Should he be inducted? His numbers are Blake-ish in points and much, much better in +/-. I don’t think many people would say Duchesne is deserving of the Hall. What about Reed Larson? If Blake is in, Larson should probably be in, too. And Gary Galley? He’s close to Blake in points, with better defensive numbers. Nobody thinks HE’s a HOF candidate, do they? Not a chance.
There are plenty of players who had great, distinguished careers who nevertheless are not worthy of the Hall of Fame.
But hey, maybe there’s a reason Rob Blake deserves to be inducted when so many defensemen with equal or better numbers somehow don’t.
Maybe it’s his character.
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It’s not at all clear that the first pp of my comment above is a quote from another commenter. Sorry. I was trying to respond to that quote.
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Rich,
Lubomir over Norstrom? One season of Matt Greene outdoes Lubomir’s whole career.
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It has to be Lubo and Dewey.
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How about Jan Vopat?
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I’m sorry I love kopitar but he is not the best centre… Come on rich. No Blake? wow
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#1 Norstrom – By a county mile! THE WARRIOR,they just don’t make them like this guy anymore. For many lean years this was one of the few bright spots that played the majority of the decade.
#2 Lubo – 5 or 6 years of solid play. The LITTLE WARRIOR…Big heart and how many times did you think no way he’s coming back onto the ice after that hit or puck in the face or whatever it was for his size he missed very few games.
#3 DD – Rich, as good as DD is and is going to be he just hasn’t played enough games yet.
#4 Blake – Even when he came back, he was still the best player on the team…HHOFamer.
#5 Greene – The new WARRIOR!
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Adam Deadmarsh is a great choice – awesome player, tremendous heart, and great physical play. Deaders, Ziggy, and Alison were fantastic together.
It’s too bad the “LAPD” line wasn’t healthier, as Rich mentioned. It seems the team was plagued with injuries during those years and I can’t help but wonder why.
In my opinion, Mattias is the hands down correct choice. Not only was he a warrior but the guy never missed a shift, was dressed every night, and man did he seem to be indestructable. A true stay-at-home Dman who never got beat, it sure was nice knowing he was on the blue line.
Deadmarsh and Palfy, Lubo and Mattias – those are my picks. I’m saving Drew for this decade.
Felix for goalie, although that’s because it’s slim pickings. He was ok before he went blind and could only react after the puck hit something – like a post, skate, or the back of the net.
Quick is the man, but for the next decade.
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In the early 90s you can’t go without mentioning Karalahti and Yushkevich. They played some solid blue line for us in the thin years… when Aki Berg(er) was eating up seasons trying to develop.
And anyone that has ANYTHING positive to say about Modry wasn’t watching very closely. The man was a walking turnover. He couldn’t put the body on a anyone. His passing was not up to par. His one-on-one defense, wasn’t. When he went to Philly I felt bad for them.
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Rich, on the LAK.com page you have Deadmarsh playing on the Kings from 2000 – 2003. He was traded to the Kings on February 21, 2001. Also, his debut season was 2001, not 2006.
But I agree, Lubo and DD. Blake was best D-man of the 90′s. Everyone loved Lubo here until his last season in LA. Stop the revisionist history, peeps!
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I think that plus/minus stats for an individual should be handicapped by the team average. Blake played on some crappy teams – I figure his plus/minus is going to suffer no matter what.
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For the goalies …you have to go with the only guy to win a playoff series – Felix Potvin. There really are no other choices. Sadly…
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Yushkevich? Really? He played in 42 games in the 2002-2003 season.
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My #1 defenseman is Norstrom. One word – warrior. Whether it was with Blake early on or Lubo in the middle of the decade, it was his solid defensive play that allowed those guys to rack up the points & get the glory.
#2 is Doughty. It’s crazy to think that a guy in his 2nd year would have this kind of impact but he has. We don’t know yet who’s going to make the Canadian Olympic team. But the fact that he has a very real chance at it shows what kind of player he already is.
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At this point I feel Doughty’s defensive game is still too shaky to get the nod for the decade. Norstrom was a great defenseman who never had the talent around him to fully realize his potential. There were some international tournaments in which hue had the freedom to play his game and he was phenomenal. Ironically, I feel the captaincy was a weight he would have done better without carrying. Sometimes I think Brown as captain is a mistake as well. But, I love both players.
Therefore, I feel it is Lubo and Norstrom for the decade.
Sadly, Aaron Miller could never stay healthy or he could have been of much greater impact. Schneider gets honorable mention.
Glad to see the love for the former players who are often criticiEd on these boards.
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if people are picking Doughty , then im picking Schneider as one of my D-men. He only played two years too and that powerplay was one of the best with him at the point. Not his fault Taylor decided to keep Aaron “IR” Miller over him.
Still get the runs thinking we got crap for him. sean avery and a big russian defensmen who couldnt skate backwards.
Before i start ripping on Avery my two choices are Lubo and Norstrom. Norstrom was sooo good the guy made the all-star team and he was a shut down defenseman!!!!!
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Ditto Barry’s Mullet
Lubo and Norstrom were the best of the 2000 decade. Blake was the best Kings defenceman, but his best years were in the 1990′s. And DD’s best years are yet to come and will probably prove to be the best Kings defenceman of all time.
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Stuart, can I have some of what you’ve been smoking, please? Karalahti and Yushkevich? Really? And rudedogg, yes, I agree with you–a head case and an alcaholic for Schneider? Give me a break! Not one of genius Dave Taylor’s best trades…
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It has to be Visnovsky and Norstrom. Period.
Blake was dealt in 2001 and was with Colorado and San Jose by the end of the decade.
Doughty, seriously? He is definately the future, but to give him the nod for all-decade defenseman rather than Norstrom. Rich, I am amazed.
Sure Doughty has tremendous upside and has demostrated a moxy not seen in someone so young, but Norstrom was the heart and soul of the Kings throughout his tenure. He was a warrior. He represented the Kings for the decade, quiet and yet someone who worked hard and sacrificed himself. I believe he took a puck in the mouth in Anahiem blocking a shot from the point. And nevermind that he was the captain for much of the decade as well.
Seriously.
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Quisp, I appreciate your stats but facts are facts, like your numbers, and Blake is still going the HHOF, there’s really no doubt about it.
Using Paul Coffey was a poor example, the dude played for the powerhouse Oilers of the 80′s. I am a +200 over my career having played on that team.
And using +/- to rate someone’s overall game is weak. I guess, according to the numbers, Kopitar is a worthless sack at -41?
Back on topic, looks like Matty Norstrom and Lubo seem to be the picks here, and I am good with that, just don’t hate on Blake, let it go, tis the season and a new decade is coming. =)
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Blake’s performance for the Kings in the 2000-’s differs from his earlier years (especially the 2nd time around when he was mostly injured). Blake played for some truly awful Kings teams and had to play up ice for them to have any chance to win.
Actually, one of my saddest moments as a Kings fan was when Blake came back one time as an Avalanche shortly after being traded. Blake barely crossed the blue line: the Kings were crushed. I remember Blake at the blue line, hanging back, with this sad smile fixed on his face. I’m no mind reader but it seemed to me he recalled having to take too many risks, going up ice out of position b\c of the lousy teams he played on for years.
Blake’s +/- wld be far better if he played on some better teams. The Kings from 1994-2000 had some really weak teams, as I recall.
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Blake would be an easy choice for a 90′s pick.
Doughty will be next decade’s best for sure unless we have some stud in a future draft.
For this one though I have to go with Lubo and Norstrom. Different playsyles for sure but I can’t think of anyone more steady under pressure than Matty.
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Barrie G -
All due respect, but your rebuttal amounts to “la la la I’m not listening.” It’s not a “fact” that Rob Blake is going to the HHOF. He might. He might not. My opinion is that he doesn’t deserve it, and if he gets in, you have to let the others on my (above) list in, and that’s just silly. Duchesne? Larson? Come on.
Using Paul Coffey is hardly a poor example. You can’t tease apart the fact that he played for a great team from the fact that his numbers are great. You can say, oh sure, his +/- would have been worse if he were on the Kings (more than he was, I mean). But the reason that he was inducted was because of a combination of the following: his numbers, his success, his contribution to the success of the teams he played on.
As far as Kopitar… You’re creating a false dichotomy. It’s not as though there are two choices (1) HOF, (2) Worthless sack. Kopitar is neither, obviously. He’s a very talented guy, but he hasn’t done anything to justify inducting him into the HHHOF. Maybe in fifteen years, he will have. We’ll see.
It’s disingenuous to characterize anyone who doesn’t think Blake belongs in the Hockey Hall of Fame as a “hater.” My position is simply that his career is an excellent one that does not rise to the level of HOF. He’s in the middle ground occupied by Duchesne, Larson, Galley, Schneider. And there are plenty of players (I listed them) whose numbers do actually merit consideration FIRST (Wilson, Howe, et al).
Just look at the names of the guys from the modern era on the hall of fame roster. Orr, Robinson, Park, Coffey, Stevens, McGinnis, Languay, Borque…Blake? No.
Just because he played well for the Kings for several years doesn’t mean he’s deserving of being in the Hall of Fame. He was sometimes great, sure. But is he one of the 15 or 20 greatest defensemen of the last 50 years? Based on what??
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And I hesitate to mention it, since I’m not primarily making an argument about Blake’s character, but if you look at the names on the HOF list, they all rank very high in that regard. Blake? You don’t see anyone on that list who acted in that free-agenty “me first” way that Blake has, not once but twice.
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Quisp, you’re a smart guy and passionate about the Kings, that’s very evident and I can appreciate those qualities.
That said, I am not gonna waste this space with a slinging of verbal barbs about Rob Blake. We’d be here until HE-double hockey sticks did that sub zero thing.
Let’s just agree to disagree on our personal views and assessments of Rob Blake as a player and a person mmm kay?
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Blake is without a doubt going to the HHOF.
If we look at Defenseman over the last 15+ years, you would have a tough time adding someone better to the list below. At some point with the exception of Scott Stevens (who is constantly overlooked) have all won the Norris trophy at least once.
During this same period, Blake was at or near the top of that list for a good 7 or 8 years when he was in his prime and did it on what was arguably one of the worst teams over the last 15 years.
Bourque
Lidstrom
Chelios
Leetch
Neidermayer
Pronger
Blake
Stevens
McInnis
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What is rather amusing here is the debate about Blake. Lets look at it from a standpoint of that many here are trying to determine the best two defensemen for the Kings since 2000 to 2009, hence the decade team tag.
Blake was traded after the 2000-2001 season. He then came back for 2006-2007 and 2007-2008. That totals 3 seasons. How does he even enter the conversation as far as decade team, when you have Visnovsky and Norstrom. Blake was hardly here. And if you count him, then you need to count Doughty.
I think production and longevity are two characteristics to include here in the discussion.
Whether or not Blake is HOF material, that is another story. But for the last ten years I’m sticking with Visnovsky and Norstrom.
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Blake had an incredible shot like MacInnes, but was a better defender. Add in the hip checks and I think he’s one to remember.
Bottom line is — anschutz’s Kings have been poor for the most part (irony?).
Blake is not a low charachter person. A true competitor wants a chance to compete. Nobody criticizes Borque for leaving Boston at the end. Plus, the second Blake stint ended because Lombardi wanted it to.
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Matty and Lubo for character, dedication, consistency, and skill. You knew what you were going to get from them every game. Slowdry shouldn’t even be mentioned here. Yea he had his moments, but when it counted, he was always a step behind. There is no denying Doughty’s skill and work ethic and for that I really have no argument with Rich’s pick. Blake as a pick for this decade should be out of the question. He really didn’t have much of an impact for the Kings this decade. When given the opportunity to have an impact, he jumped to San Jose. Which leads to an honorable mention for O’Donnell. He has come in and done what Blake could have, had he not jumped ship, (again). O’donnell has done a great job in mentoring the young guys and has shown them the importance of sticking up for each other.
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Oh, I criticize Bourque for leaving Boston. I thought that was lame.
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MacInnis +373
Blake -16
If you’re a good player on a bad team, the other team typically scores when you are not on the ice.
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This is a tough one. It’s hard to say Doughty over Norstrom, or possibly Blake, when he’s 1.5 season’s into a career. But, you can’t argue with the results in that 1.5 seasons. As for goalie, Felix the Cat had a great year+ for LA, can’t argue there. The sad thing is that other than Potvin for a year+, and the last year (2nd 1/2 of 08-09, 1st 1/2 of 09-10) of Quick, LA hasn’t had SQUAT for goaltending, the entire decade. Not totally sure about Ziggy over Brown either. While Ziggy was dynamic, was he worth Olli Jokinen, in the end??? 1 playoff victory vs. Brown the team captain.
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Blake who?
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I’m right there with Quisp’s take on Blake. I’d say he looked like a hall of famer in the 90′s, and I’d probably pick him for the 90′s “all-decade-team” based on his better performances in the middle of that decde.
The difference between Dewey and [anyone else] is that Dewey will be one of the greatest players to ever play the game, and he’s already one of the dominant defensemen in the league. He gets a ton of credit for what he’s done at 18 and 19, IMO. Besides, the decade isn’t over yet. :-b
There is something to the Norstrom choice, though. If it’s not Dewey and Lubo, it’s Norstrom and Lubo.
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Yeah, I think Doughty and Norstrom is a solid pick.
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all this talk about plus minus has me thinking maybe it was good that Blake blew us off again and we had to scramble to land a veteran defenseman OD. cuz if you look JMFJ plus /minus is just as horrible as his mentors!
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