Before I head out to practice, I’ll pass along a story from NHL.com that talks about the Kings’ building process. Much of it covers familiar ground — familiar for us…but this is written for a national audience — but there’s some interesting stuff from Lombardi at the end…
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I knew DL was reading the blog
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I think from now on every reader should be ranked as being core or non-core.
By the way Rich, since you’re traveling now you should have city-meetups-ups (i’m thinking of scenes similar to those in “Almost Famous”)… you definitely have to do an East Coast one…perhaps at the end of Jan when the Kings play the devils.
At the worst it could be me, you, & nykingfan having a pint. But i’m sure would look into coming down?
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Shakes:
You need to define the criteria for core & non-core… Maybe we can make a survey and have the results determine it like those ones in Cosmo. You know the ones: Is your man cheating? What type of man are you looking for? Could be fun.
-Dave
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from Matthew Barry
My friend in Manchester says Andrei Loktionov and Brandon Segal are packing their bags and heading to the show.
Loktionov, 6 goals and 11 assists in 17 games while Segal has 6 goals and 8 assists in 21 games.
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macdup:
Too funny.
Continuing in the Cosmo theme, if you are split personalities (i.e.: multiple sign-in names)…
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I have been a King’s fan since the Bob Pulford era when Jack Kent Cooke sent him to study the Redskins and their “model”. I truly believe DL is the best Kings GM ever. There has never been this depth in the organization and there is a genuine attempt at installing a winning culture and tradition.
There are still questions and concerns. The current Kings team is not fast, gritty, or especially skillful.
Yes, grit is on the way in the form of Schenn, Clifford, and Teubert. Skill is on the way in the form of Loktionov and Moller. Still don’t see the speed on the horizon other than possibly Hickey who skates well for his position. Hopefully those mentioned will all develop. There don’t seem to be any goal scoring wingers of note currently in the system either. Maybe DL can improve that, time will tell.
I’m worried that the plan may hit a snag as the Panther’s did under Mclean and the Wild did under Risebrough and Lemaire. TM has put the reins on Johnson and players like Brown, Frolov, and Qucik seem to be going backwards a little. Florida had a great nucleus as well with Jovonoski, Radek Dvorak, and Rob Niedermeyer. The style of play seemed to hold them all back from greatness.
The Wild had Gaborik, Schultz, Bouchard,Dupuis, and now Burns who have struggled, other than Gaborik who chose to leave, at becoming outstanding players. I’m wondering if the same thing is starting to happen here a little with TM?
I hope DL can finish the job he has started so well and that my concerns are just those of a long suffering fan. Still I worry…
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Fro/Ko/JW
Parse/Loktionov/Brown
Purcell/Handzus/Simmonds
Ivanans/Richardson/Segal
(Harrold)
Drewiske/Doughty
Johnson/Jones
SOD/Greene
Quick/Ersberg
That’s 21. I guess Smyth will go on the IR (or is he already?) and that’ll get us down to 23.
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One of the biggest gripes people had against DL was that his free-agent signing and his trades were horrible. What people should now realize is that those signings and trades in the past were merely for placeholders meant to keep the team floating until the draft had enough of the picture in place that he could make some real trades/signings like Scuds/Smyth. Overall, I couldn’t be happier with DL and what he’s finally brought to the Kings.
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We’re as smart as Leafs fans? Then why are they Leaf fans?
As long Kings management remains smarter than the TO front office I’m good.
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There’s only one caution to this tale, and by and large I agree with Lombardi’s strategy. But this slow steady growth means that the young core of the team, Kopitar, Brown, Johnson, Doughty and Frolov have never played in an important game, they never played in the playoffs and there is the danger of them growing “accustomed to mediocrity” and learning to accept poor results. How do Lombardy and Murray combat this?
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I’m a big supporter of Lombardi’s. IMO, he’s the first real talented GM this organization has ever had. He brings vision, a long-term plan for winning and success. He wants to build (is building) a team that will be competitive for years to come with the belief that they will compete not just for the playoffs, but for the cup itself and that nothing less than winning the cup is acceptable.
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For God’s sake, let me buy you a beer or six when you’re in Denver! Hopefully things will be looking up by then as the Kings don’t hit the Pepsi Can until late March.
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Crown, one of the things opposing announcers typically say is that it’s a hard-working team that’s tough to play against. DL knows they need more grit, which is why he went for Scuds and Smytty. He’s hoping to develop the rest, it appears. Brown, Fro and Quick aren’t his guys, right? Not surprised, there. He probably sees them as longer-term placeholders. The things I still hold against him are Crawford and Cloutier.
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i’m glad there’s enough attention & dap to go around…
…even in l.a…
wait…
…especially in l.a…
winning helps…which reminds me…:
the next most important game of the year is the next one…and the next one after that…the next one, too…come to think of it, there all kind of important…
if it is segal & lokti, great…get yr gear & take yr cues from parse…!
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I’m sorry, but that article was a bunch of self-serving crap. Support for Lombardi’s plan has much more to do with faith in the plan than it does with understanding the plan.
Ahead of schedule? Ahead of whose schedule? Let’s get real for a minute or two – the Kings are currently in 5th in the Conference, but they’ve also played more games than everyone below them. There are currently 5 teams with games in hand that could pass the Kings once they have played the same number of games and another one that could theoretically catch them.
This is Season #4 of his program that has produced possibly the worst 3 season string in Kings history. If they don’t make the playoffs this season either – and making the playoffs is by no means guaranteed – where is the progress?
Let’s not forget why they traded away so many of those first round draft choices – to try to put a legitimate team on the ice NOW to put some butts in the seats. In hindsight that may not look like the best way to go, but the Kings’ development is certainly better that that than the Oakland Seals, Colorado Rockies, Kansas City Scouts, Cleveland Barons – teams that didn’t survive because they couldn’t put butts in the seats.
Let’s also not forget how many of those first round draft choices went to acquire Wayne Gretzky (which I also think was a mistake, but that’s a battle for another time)….
While Lombardi is criticizing previous regimes on trading away draft choices, I wonder what he would have done differently in the day. Free agency didn’t exist at the time, so the only way to acquire veteran talent was to trade for it. If he hasn’t been able to produce results with that extra resource, how likely would it have been that he would have kept his job long enough to build the franchise from scratch back then?
I understand the plan. Until he can show me some tangible results, it’s just the same old story in a shiny new box.
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Kevin,
Maybe what you’re saying about Quick and Fro might have some truth in it though I think he’ll take the help where ever it comes from like Kopi, for instance.
If Brown isn’t his guy why is he the captain? Every team in the league would like to have him.
Williams is getting first line PP time over Brown and Frolov which I’m still trying to figure out even though Williams is good at other things.
Still worried about the lack of team speed and a lack of goal scoring wingers in the organization. Well, let’s hope for the best.
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PSP:
As an example, I’ll give you Bill Torrey. In the shadow of the Rangers, he built from nothing a team which won four straights Cups in eight years…with no free agency.
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Kenneth,
Sorry I called you Kevin in the last post. Realized it just after hitting send.
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The Kings are fine. DL said five year plan not four so this year is just a preview. I do not see this team making the playoffs this year because of the lack of depth to compete down the stretch. I think they will be around 10-12 points out so it will be interesting until the early part of March. I am already looking forward to next season!
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@ Crown: I don’t think Lombardi picks the captain. I said Brown’s not Lombardi’s guy (he was already here), and that he’s probably a long-term placeholder to him, given his obsession with making the team his guys. That was the extent. Maybe you read something else into “Brown, Fro and Quicker aren’t his guys.”
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Who here is a Kings fan living in Denver/Colorado besides my family and I?
I heard someone mention beers in March. I’m in!
And then we an do it the next month on the last day of the regular season in April. =)
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PSP
During the generation that you’re talking about, teams around the NHL regularly ripped the Kings off in any and all trades. You don’t trade top young talent for washed up veterans only looking to cash a paycheck and spend time on the beach. Something the morons who were in charge regularly did before DL got here.
DL has a clear understanding of his talent depth more than any other GM in the Kings history.
We traded HOF’er Larry Murphy for Brian Engbloom and Ken Houston.
We’ve traded the rights to Tom Barrasso for Rene Martin..a former 50 goal scorer who played 4 games for the Kings. We traded the rights to Phil Housley for Jerry Korab..a former top defenseman well past his prime.
We’ve had some of the worst collection of talent evaluators in the history of the game making huge organizational decisions. That’s what we traded to put legitimate talent on the ice and fannies in the seats…real good idea, ha?
That’s why we’ve sucked for so long.
DL comes in and in 3 years turns the organization into a respected team and organization.
You talk about teams below us possibly catching us. You conveniently leave out teams ahead of us that we can possibly catch.
Last thing…Gretzky a bad idea? We’ve been to one friggin cup. It wasn’t going to happen without him. If you’re going to mortgage your future, it better be for the greatest player of this and every other generation…not for a Rick Martin or Jerry Korab.
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Yo! I’m there!
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(that is, throwing them down with you in the spring, Barrie G)
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(sorry for the multiposts)
Do realize, nykingsfan, the Kings lost two scouts on 9/11.
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What’s the frequency, Kenneth?, awesome!
I always thought me and my family were the only one’s in Colorado who supported the Kings besides “Man of Mystery” Anschutz. And he doesn’t do much of that anyway it would seem.
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What’s the frequency, Kenneth?
I’m well aware of that, but putting sympathies aside for a moment, Losing 2 guys should not have a detrimental effect on the organization as a whole.
If that was the case, shame on Kings management for not having a support system in place in case people leave or in this case, worse.
No 1 or 2 people can be so important as to cause you to become dysfunctional..like the Kings had been.
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@ Barrie: I imagine any reference to the Kings in Denver would make Anschutz pretty unpopular where a chunk of his money is invested. I’m a pre-StaplesCenter transplant, and haven’t been aware of any other Kings fans around here.
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@Kenneth,
You don’t see any Kings jerseys while attending Av’s games? Must be some I would think. Heck, I’m in the Kansas City area and saw several at this years preseason game.
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Kenneth and PSP,
No,I understood you meant Brown was already drafted by Taylor in the same draft he picked Boyle and Tambellini on the first round.
I know Lombardi dosen’t pick the captain but could’ve vetoed anybody TM wanted to name.
PSP,
We gave up a lot in the Gretzky trade but only Gelinas turned out to be that good. We also got Mike K. and Mcsorley. McSorley was later part of the deal that brought Norstrom and LaPierre to L.A. Some of the other deals in Kings history were worse.
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@ Belexes: Sadly, I’ve been to one Avs(/Kings) game…I saw two or three back in 2001 or so…that was in McNichols Arena before they built the Pepsi can. I might keep my fingers crossed this year, though.
@ NYKingsFan: I don’t entirely disagree, but you have to look at who those two guys are–the patches that were most recently applied, before which they were losing more than winning. It’s a bad break, and it did expose the weakness at left wing that should have been obvious to anyone paying that sort of attention.
@ Crown: I seriously doubt he would have vetoed it, particularly because he obviously thinks of Brown as more than a short-term guy (and who’s he going to pin it on–maybe Greene, or OD–Kopi’s not ready for that, yet.)
Norstrom and Laperriere–tough watching either of those go.
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nykingfan -
I didn’t say that what the Kings did in the 70s or 80s was good or that they were good judges of talent – because they clearly weren’t. They got ripped off on almost every deal. My point was that they had to generate enough fan interest to keep the franchise viable.
Respected team and organization? Terrific – talk to me when that respect translates into at least ONE playoff appearance.
When I was talking about games in hand, I was talking about RIGHT NOW – the only team that the Kings have a game in hand on is San Jose, and they are 8 points ahead. The Kings have played one less game – pretty hard to get 8 points in one game
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I am not qualified to determine whether or not the Kings’ “rebuilding process” is ahead or behind schedule. As a season ticket holder, though, I am qualified to say that I am very frustrated rooting for a team that has not made the playoffs in years. When I am spending big bucks to see this team play, I want the best possible product on the ice in the shortest amount of time. Other teams have risen from the ashes in far less time than the Kings – why do we need to be patient/satisfied with a long term plan in which progress seems to be so incremental? This team IS better than it was last year, and they do appear to be heading in a positive direction. Regardless, I just don’t get the sense that there is an organizational drive to win now that you find in places like Detroit, Philadelphia and San Jose. I think we have the right to expect the organization to have the same “killer instinct” that we expect of the players, and I am just not sure we have it – from our absentee owner on down. Would love to hear what others think.
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PSP, I disagree. There is a (obvious) plan set up and there’s no doubt about it – though that doesn’t mean you have to like it. But like it or not, it’s not something “old in a new box”. And it’s not fair to imply that DL has “no game plan” and packages old ideas in a new form.
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Rick – when mentioning the “sudden” rise and killer instinct of the San Jose Sharks, then you automatically mention the name Dean Lombardi. No Lombardi, no (current) Sharks.
So, I guess, the first step towards what you desire has been taken?
Second, as a Season Ticket Holder you have all the right to expect what you wrote above BUT not all Teams rise as fast as the Penguins did from dead last to Contender (and Winner) in just a few Seasons. There are plenty of other Teams that have been “rebuilding” and have been nowhere near the Finals for years…..
Unfortunately it is neither a exact science (as some draft picks just flop while others become Stars) nor just a lucky gamble – it’s somewhere in between. And I personally buy into what DL’s plan seems to be, something in between those two:
you load up on prospects, see who pans out, develop and strengthen your core, add depth. Then, when the time is right, you add proven Stars.
The bad News: it never (rarely) happens overnight (those darn Penguins prove me wrong here……)
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