47 Comments

1. wavesinair says:

   November 20, 2009 at 7:46 pm

   I have no idea how those numbers stack up to the rest of the AHL goalies or to previous years, but I have to believe that they must be pretty incredible considering it is the crazy, wild, breakdown-defense of the AHL. I mean, if he continues this way, it seems impossible for him to stay down for the entire year. Man Quick must really be looking in the rear view mirror.

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2. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

   November 20, 2009 at 7:58 pm

   Regardless of how it appears, I believe it’s Ersberg who’s probably paying attention. He’s the guy that would probably be sent down go bring Bernier up, and that means either “purgatory” or an opportunity to play for someone else. I’m sure he’s been thinking about that.

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3. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

   November 20, 2009 at 7:59 pm

   (“go” should be “to”)

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4. Cry Baby says:

   November 20, 2009 at 8:04 pm

   Its better to let this guy develop into the elite goalie he can be. I am sure he will see time next year. I doubt DL makes the call up this year.

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5. Mike says:

   November 20, 2009 at 8:18 pm

   Jonathan Bernier deserves his shot at the NHL as he is very close to what Steve Mason can do. Play him now as he is on his game.

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6. Quisp says:

   November 20, 2009 at 8:29 pm

   I think DL will trade Ersberg rather than lose him via waivers. And since Bernier is doing exactly what Lombardi asked of him and has been doing it consistently for the last quarter of last season and the first quarter of this one, I would argue that there’s only so much time that can pass before it’s time to bring him up. He’s played twice as many AHL games as Quick. His numbers are better. He’s everything he was expected to be, everything he was asked to be. That has to be rewarded.

   In any case, next year Jones will be in Manchester with Zatkoff, so by then at the latest Bernier will be in LA. So DL has at the latest till then to ship Ersberg to wherever. That’s pretty much the one thing I know is going to happen. It’s just a matter of when.

   Meanwhile, on another topic, can you guys weigh in on this, and tell me what I’m missing? http://wp.me/ptucv-DE

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7. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

   November 20, 2009 at 8:42 pm

   Looks good to me, Quisp. Frankly, being a software guy, I occasionally get this “you software people always expect that everyone does everything by the book–that’s not the real world.” Sadly, the guy was right–in most environments, the people you’d most expect to know and follow the rules just don’t. So, we see once in a while, rules interpreted one way in one game, and another way in the next. Sure, Koharski or whoever can say how it’s supposed to be, but that’s until the next as-of-yet-never-disputed interpretation. We see this in law, too. People can’t be as objective and/or attentive as we think they should.

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8. johnny says:

   November 20, 2009 at 8:51 pm

   i dont mind quick but he aint a numbr 1 type of goalie. he will be a very solid backup though. no doubt. Bernier will live up to the hype and expectations of being an elite goaltender and he will be our number one for the next 15 plus yrs!

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9. johnny says:

   November 20, 2009 at 8:55 pm

   btw if u visit http://www.tsn.ca they have a section of player rankings in all leagues. Bernier is ranked 1st in the AHL. Schenn is ranked 5th in the WHL and they have Drewskie ranked 12th in the NHL among rookies

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10. 20lucfan says:

    November 20, 2009 at 9:07 pm

    where the hell is hickey?!?!?!

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11. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 20, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Hmm…just wondering how many goalies have been number one goaltender for an nhl team for 15 years plus. I’m thinking I can count it zero hands.

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12. Quisp says:

    November 20, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    WTF Kenneth -

    You speak the truth. However, at least with laws there’s an appeals process. I get the feeling in this case it’s more a matter of people not reading the actual rules but saying they did. On top of which, the rules are badly-written. It probably would be a good idea for the (presumed) team of lawyers who vet these documents to hire writers to comment on whether the thing says what it’s supposed to say.

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13. "I'm Just Saying" says:

    November 20, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Great pick (Hickey)

    And with the 5th overall pick in the draft the kings take Thomas Hickey

    WHOOOOOO?

    Now in his 4th season below NHL. He still is not ready nor playing.Lombardi’s first pick as a King GM

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14. Joel says:

    November 20, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Quick is such an enigma to me. He lets in a soft goal after making some of the most unbelievable saves. There are times I am so frustrated with him, but I honestly don’t know how much of that he is going to clean up. I believe that Quick’s biggest enemy right now is concentration. He has the potential to be amazing.

    I get the feeling that either Quick or Bernier are going to be a top 5-10 goalie, and I’m glad in a way that DL has not made a knee jerk reaction yet. The longer he waits, the better trade value one of them will have. I just hope he picks the right one long term. We can’t afford to get this one wrong and have another 20 years of patchwork goaltending.

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15. Joel says:

    November 20, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    Quisp, you have me curious after reading about that Rangers mishap. If in fact there is a rule violation by the referee would the Kings have been able to file a protest with the NHL?

    I have a greater understanding of baseball rules, and know that a protest would take a feeling of finality out of a game because the league office would be able to determine whether (1) there was a rule violation, and (2) whether the rule violation had a significant impact on the outcome of the game. If both are in the affirmative, the league office can order the teams to play again after the point of protest. It doesn’t happen much anymore, but you used to see baseball managers regularly lodging protests a few times a year.

    I would think something like this would not work as well for hockey, and I’m guessing that’s why the NHL has given almost complete latitude to the referees to determine whether they will go with the recommendation of a video official. But in the event it turns out that there was a rule violation, what then?

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16. DellaNooch says:

    November 20, 2009 at 10:38 pm

    Fact check -
    Mike – you’re right about Steve Mason having steller credentials leading up his shot at the NHL last season and an equally great season last year…this season he sucks and Mathieu Garon (signed for pure backup purposes), is challenging for the starting position. Check his stats in the goaltender area (he’ll be towards the bottom)…maybe he was rushed too quickly? It’s a valid argument.

    What’s the frequency Kenneth – Better check those hands again…I’ve read your posts before so I know you’re a hockey guy, so I’ll go easy…Martin Brodeur is in his 15th season as the number one goaltender for the only team he has ever played for. In fact it would be his 16th season if not for the lock out. He basically owns the record book for goalies, so he shouldn’t be that hard to forget in the future.

    Interesting enough, he played 3 years of juniors, at least a season in the AHL, and became the starter at age 21.

    Bernier is 21 and as I believe and some others do too, he will be on the Kings roster next year at age 22, I’m okay with that and would hope he is the next Martin Brodeur and avoid him being the next Jamie Storr by asking him to save our team this season, when we currently are 4th in the west.

    I’m Just Saying/Anthony/Cristobal/Whoever – Great job being a hater once again. If we dropped guys every time that struggled at a new level, then some other NHL team would be bragging about Bernier (after all he tanked last year)…glad our management has a little faith and can develop players….and who is Thomas Hickey? Ask any Canadian! He was their team captain for the World Junior Championship last year (that’s a small event in Canada held every year, really not a big deal if you know anything about hockey) Guess they couldn’t find anyone better for that team captain spot, like John Tavares/Evander Kane/Tyler Meyers/Jamie Benn
    Hickey will get there, but not as a 20 year old, it will just take time as it does with MOST defenseman trying to crack the NHL

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17. mask0425x says:

    November 20, 2009 at 10:45 pm

    Quick must really be looking in the rear view mirror.

    Is that why he continuosly loses track of the puck?

    Why hasn’t Smyth been placed on IR yet? If DL thinks that he can get by with the existing forwards and d-men, than just call up Bernier without having to send the Swedish Fukufuji down (I’d love to see him go somewhere, preferably very close, i.e. Anaheim, lol). I’d be shocked if he did not clear waivers with those ugly numbers.

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18. DellaNooch says:

    November 20, 2009 at 10:49 pm

    Great research Quisp on “Ref Rulings”, essentially the rule books says the ref can do whatever he wants…I’m not upset about the Ranger’s goal, it really was a legit goal, Ersberg didn’t have it and it would have went in, however, the Detroit non-goal was an amazingly bad call, even if I don’t like the Wings, that was just plain ole bad.

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19. Quisp says:

    November 20, 2009 at 11:02 pm

    Well, technically in neither case would there be a rule violation because in both cases the ref’s ruling turned out to be final. But that’s only because the ref thought he had to stick with his initial call (in the red-wings case) and because he listened to the video review (in the Kings case). What was weird in the Kings situation was that the ref felt he had to pretend that he never gave the wash-out signal (which he certainly did), and it’s obvious he lied about it because he believed that if he had given the signal that would have made the play “not reviewable.” But that’s not what the rules say. The rules say he may consult the video goal judge to aid in determining what if any adjustments he needs to make to his original call, in making his final decision. I don’t see anything in the rules that would prevent the ref from saying, “my say is final, and, although I initially thought the play was dead, with the help of video review, I can see that the puck was in the net and my initial call was wrong; therefore I reverse myself and declare it a goal.”

    i.e. the ref is perfectly welcome to waive it off and then reverse himself. His initial “waive-off” is not binding. It does not set in motion some weird “must stick with the initial wrong call” process that can’t be reversed. The rules are fairly explicit that he is in fact allowed to change his mind with the assistance of the video review people. Just because the video review “war room” can’t override the ref on the ice, that doesn’t mean the ref can’t over-rule himself.

    It doesn’t mean the ref can’t avail himself of the additional helpful eyes of the video review people. He can ask, “hey, was that puck in the net before I blew the whistle?” He still gets to make the final decision.

    In the Detroit case, the league weirdly stuck to this narrative that the play was blown down in the ref’s mind before the puck entered the net so it’s somehow not reviewable. But again, the rules only say that the video review officials cannot overrule the ref on the ice; but the rules also say the video review officials can advise the ref and indeed shall advise the ref in any instance of a potential goal that is missed by the ref. That obviously includes instances in which the ref believes he blew it down before the puck entered the net. Because the evidence in this case clearly shows that the puck entered the net immediately.

    The whole “intent to blow” thing is supposed to address the situation where the puck is under the goalie, the ref loses sight of the puck, intends to blow the whistle — but before he is physically able to blow the whistle someone pokes the puck into the net. The whistle sounds after the puck crosses the line, but the ref intended to blow the play down before.

    (I actually think the intent to blow rule is stupid, because obviously the players don’t stop until there’s a whistle; they don’t stop when the ref thinks about blowing the whistle. And shouldn’t the ref WANT to make the right call? If the puck is in the net before the players hear the whistle, what does it matter that the ref lost sight of the puck a split second before that happened? I mean, what if a split second after he intends to blow the whistle, he sees the puck again and reverses himself? Is he bound by his original — now canceled — intent? No, obviously he isn’t. But the way some people (i.e. the league and all the refs, apparently) are reading the rules, any time the ref THINKS he has lost sight of the puck for any amount of time he must therefore stop everything. Which is insane. And we all know he refs ignore losing sight of the puck for split-seconds all the time.)

    My much shorter point, though, is that there was no violation of the rules because the rules say the ref’s say is final, and in both cases the ref got his final say. But he said it based on an understanding of the rules which I believe is wrong. In the Kings case, he accidentally made the right call (because the puck really was over the line before he blew it down), and in the Wings case, he made the wrong call, because the puck was in the net when he lost sight of it (he assumed it was under the goalie’s pad but he was wrong — oops, too late!). But in the sense that his say was final, the rules were followed. Unfortunately, he ruled the way he did because he believed he had to stick with his initial ruling, which he didn’t.

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20. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 21, 2009 at 12:06 am

    @DellaNooch…so I was off by one?

    @Quisp, people are fundamentally lazy. My dad bought a property once where the title insurance company failed to properly vet the title. It was a property with a lake on it, and in the middle of the lake was an island. The problem was that the lake was defined to be the area that had a lake, and…(the word “lake” was included in the definition for the word “lake.”)

    The moral? These people’s job is to make sure the title is unambiguous and correct, and they missed something so simple. Get a team of lawyers on it, and I’ll bet a layman can find issues. More to the point, I guess lawyers, etc., are less disciplined than computer people (or, they don’t have to run their “code” through “compilers.”) Even then, the old adage is “all code has bugs.” I thin that applies to all creations. Just some thoughts on rules and the impossibility of perfecting them…imperfection is in our nature and in the nature of our creations.

    In the end, the people who get to make judgments do what they want, when they want. If the system allows and their error is gross, they get overturned. It seems to be that way in all systems.

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21. Marc Nathan says:

    November 21, 2009 at 1:34 am

    it wasn’t the 5th pick… it was the 4th. I’m just saying …

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22. Nightman says:

    November 21, 2009 at 3:16 am

    As for the Hickey pick, The guy I thought we were gonna draft was Karl Alzner penciled in at #4,5 Stay at Home D man pick i beleve. He went to Capitals, still in their system.

    http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11356/capitals_top20_prospects_fall2009/

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23. Belexes says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:16 am

    Good stuff Quisp. Hey Rich, ask DL if he needs somebody (Quisp) to accompany him to the next GM meetings.

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24. -J says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:17 am

    “I’m just saying”-
    you do realize that hickey was drafted 3 drafts ago, right?
    You do realize there’s no way he’s playedc in 4 seasons since that draft, right?
    You do realize that he’s only in his first season in the AHL, right?
    You do realize that NO defenceman selected in the 07 draft is a regular in the league right now, right?
    You do realize that only 5 players, that’s right 5 players, from the entire 07 draft have played in 80 or more games in the NHL at this point, right?
    You do realize that one of those 5 players is Wayne Simmonds, drafted by none other than Lombardi, right?
    You do realize that Canada’s World Junior team is selected from the best players in Canadian Juniors, the #1 U-20 development league in the world, right?
    You do realize that the people who selected Hickey to be captain of the U-20 squad DO know who Hickey is, and know a heck of a lot more about hockey than you, right?

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25. src says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:21 am

    Nice one “J”!

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26. Belexes says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:25 am

    I like this -J person!

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27. -J says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:30 am

    Tony Esposito played 15+ years for the Hawks. There’s a bunch that have played 10+. Still, it’s not so much how many years they’re around that matters, but how many years they’re good.

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28. Belexes says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:42 am

    Good job by the Monkeys working at NHL.com. I just found this:

    Be sure to print out the November issue of Impact!, NHL.com’s online magazine for a comprehensive look at the men who make up one of the top classes in Hockey Hall of Fame history — Steve Yzerman, Brett Hull, Brian Leetch and Lou Lamoriello. VIEW ISSUE ›

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29. Crown Royal says:

    November 21, 2009 at 6:58 am

    Quisp,
    The NHL like the NBA has a different set of rules for different players and teams. That seems to be the larger issue. Do you recall Brett Hull’s cup winner while he remained in the crease after the puck existed only to score the series winner? What about Messier going after people’s heads and not getting suspended because the NHL wanted him in the lineup every night?

    Same with the NBA. Kobe and Lebron always get the breaks on the calls. The Lakers and Knicks will always get the nod as they’re big market teams. There’s a game behind the game. Knew a guy who grew up playing with Wilt Chamberlin (he was also a pro). He told me Wilt could nail ten out of ten free throws any day of the week but developed a reputation of being a poor free thrower so he could control the point spread. There was big money for him there. Look at his free throw percentage the night he decided to score a hundred points.
    You are right about Bernier but I don’t think we’ll see him until he’s going to play at least fifty percent of the time.
    As for Hickey, it’s too early to give up on him. Even before the season TM said he thought Hickey should spend a year in Manchester. He likes bigger stronger D-men. Hickey can skate and move the puck. The Kings are not an overly fast team and can use that speed and puck moving ability down the road.

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30. nykingfan says:

    November 21, 2009 at 7:06 am

    Way to go J and Della Nooch

    Typical response from people with no clue ( I’m Just Saying) about how an NHL team and organization are built and the difficulty of drafting 18 year old kids.

    It’s the instant gratification generation. Unless he’s Drew Doughty, succeeding right away, he must suck.

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31. AK47 says:

    November 21, 2009 at 8:00 am

    Bernier’s a beast
    Call Moller up, get Ivanans off the 3rd line, that’s embarrassing.. At least put Richardson on the left wing and have Peter Harrold center the 4th line?

    Frolov-Kopitar-Williams
    Parse-Stoll-Brown
    Richardson-Handzus-Simmonds
    Purcell-Harrold-Ivanans

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32. DellaNooch says:

    November 21, 2009 at 8:12 am

    @ What’s the Frequency Kenneth – It might be more than one, I’m guilty of not doing more research on this one, I just knew Brodeur off the bat.

    @Johnny – I would disagree with the statement that Quick isn’t a number 1 goaltender in this league, almost every goaltender has struggles in their career, look at Nabakov in SJ, who lost his job to Toskala, but was Vezina quality two years ago (he was robbed that year), Khabibulin was great in Tampa, struggled in Chicago, then had a great year last year, Tim Thomas didn’t make it as a number one until he was in his thirties…the list goes on.
    Quickers has the tools, he just needs to learn how to succeed in this league and then be consistent, no doubt the pressure of Bernier will start pushing this kid more, especially next year when Bernier will be on the roster

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33. wavesinair says:

    November 21, 2009 at 8:38 am

    I’m not disagreeing with you AK47, but I’ll say this again… as long as Murray is the coach, Ivan (or similar) will be on the team on a regular basis. I may not like it, you may not like it, every fan may not like it, but that is exactly what is going to happen. Period, end of story.

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34. PurpleBlacknGold says:

    November 21, 2009 at 8:55 am

    I would also have to disagree with Johnny regarding Quick’s status as a number 1 goaltender. Until last night, he was tied for most wins in the NHL. Nabokov moved one ahead with his win last night. Others on that list include Brodeur and Miller. As long as he hangs in with these other “number 1″ goaltenders, I have to agree he is also a number 1 goaltender…

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35. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 21, 2009 at 8:56 am

    WRT the 15-year one-team goaltender, I’m willing to accept (with fine proof, provided by outstanding contributors, sincerely, thanks for keeping me honest ) that it’s happened before. I’d modify my suggestion by claiming it won’t happen in the salary cap era, which is probably where I wasn’t thinking clearly in the first place. The combination of free agency and salary caps seems to keep even the players you want from staying on the team “forever.”

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36. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 21, 2009 at 9:01 am

    WRT Quick and “#1″ status, I’d caution the people counting wins to pay attention to the number of games the Kings have played. This also goes to total points. The Kings are certainly impressing us overall, but they’re not running away with anything if you compare points to games played.

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37. johnny says:

    November 21, 2009 at 9:27 am

    patrick roy

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38. johnny says:

    November 21, 2009 at 9:34 am

    WTF KENNETH. dont forget about Patrick Roy

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39. DellaNooch says:

    November 21, 2009 at 9:38 am

    @What’s the frequency Kenneth – the salary cap affecting long term stability is a very valid point…I think this goes into the territory of a “franchise player” and “team loyalty”. There is no doubt Broduer was the FP and his contracts dictate his loyalty to NJ (only 5.2 Million a year)…is there a young goaltender that is both the FP and loyal to his team in this generation? Maybe Ryan Miller…maybe Rick DiPietro- but I would be surprised if he makes it 15 years due to injury…we’ll see…I agree that it is highly unlikely.

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40. -J says:

    November 21, 2009 at 11:04 am

    WTFK- agreed, i think that’ll go for all players, not just goalies. Even beyond that, it’ll be increasingly hard for teams to keep together a core nucleus of players for any length of time. It seems the only way to do so is to sign younger, relatively less-proven (meaning only a few seasons under their belt) to 5,6, 7+ year contracts so that their cap hits can be managed. That’s risky….

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41. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 21, 2009 at 11:28 am

    In theory, the current environment rewards the teams that run an effective minor league system and draft well. One hell of a sharp set of (young-)talent scouts and good respect for the process of raising prospects probably constitutes the best opportunity to excel for the foreseeable future. Though it didn’t work out, the McNall era had a chance in those days, if the money was spent wisely. Now, I’d say that can’t happen, or at least will be a rarity and a one-hit-wonder.

    I think this is how teams like the Raiders, Celtics and Yankees did so well in their golden years, and don’t so much any more. I think that paradigm will become apparent in the NHL, if it hasn’t already.

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42. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 21, 2009 at 11:30 am

    @ Johnny – Patty Roy basically played 11 years with the Canadians before the cap, and fewer with the Avs after.

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43. johnny says:

    November 21, 2009 at 11:53 am

    WTF KENNETH. that is true about Roy. but even though it happend with 2 teams he still played 15yrs as the numbr 1.

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44. johnny says:

    November 21, 2009 at 11:58 am

    DL seems to play his cards pretty damn good with the cap.

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45. What's the frequency, Kenneth? says:

    November 21, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    Johnny, you said you expect Bernier to be _THE_KINGS’_ number one goaltender for the next 15 years. I disagreed. nevergonnahappen

    For easy reference, Johnny said, “Bernier will live up to the hype and expectations of being an elite goaltender and he will be our number one for the next 15 plus yrs!”

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46. 54FIGHTING says:

    November 21, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I just want to know who is going to trade for EE? He has no value. Why would you trade for trash when you can sign Fernandez for free or look to get Biron from the Isle.

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47. Seattle757 says:

    November 21, 2009 at 8:39 pm

    I like what I’m hearing from Della Nooch and J! Glad I’m not the only one here!

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