Asked about what the lines would look like tonight, with Frolov out and Richardson back in, Terry Murray said he wasn’t completely sure yet, but offered these possible lines:
Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Purcell-Stoll-Brown
Ivanans-Handzus-Simmonds
Moller-Richarsdon-Harrold
The players seemed to be getting closer to health. Brad Richardson said he felt substantially better than he did Saturday and was ready to play. Here’s what Murray said about the general health of the team…
MURRAY: “The health is improving. (Head athletic trainer Chris Kingsley) checks in with everybody. No phone calls in the middle of the night to him, and he says that’s a very good thing. I spoke with quite a few players as they arrived (at the morning skate) this morning and they slept through the night, getting better, feeling stronger. So we’re getting ourselves through it.’’
This is funny
We have ONE scoring line, and the rest is just…yeah…
Jack Johnson and Drew Doughty, you might have to jump in to provide the scoring.
Let’s go Kings? Whoop dee doo!
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I hope the 4th line is playing against the top line on Dallas. No way they can keep up with them with Ivanans out there.
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…Ivanans instead of Moller.
What is missing from the picture to make that a good idea?
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Ivanans-Handzus-Simmonds
Help.
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have you seen Dallas play this year? Two of their 4 lines are all speed. If you put Moller on the line with Simmonds and Zeus, you take away his speed. You keep him with Richardson and Harrold who have more speed than Zeus and Simmonds. You do not split up Simmonds and Zeus. Ivanans camps in front of the net while Zeus and Simmonds cycle – get a shot off, hope for a rebound. Please remember that “lines” are not only about how your players play together – it is also about how you match up against your opponents players.
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HAAAAAAAA! Just Saying
So someone has 5 points in 8 games and you give them a healthy scratch….HANDS UP to anyone who things this makes sense….Murray look in the mirror my friend!!!
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Please… DELIVER ME FROM IVANANS… Moller is SUCH a better choice.
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Please tell me you’re joking about the Latvian Lug on the “shutdown line.”
This is ridiculous.
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Someone please explain why the hell Moller is on the 4th line and Ivanans on the 3rd?
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Scooter-
Please post a video link of Ivanans camping in front of the net and the other 2 players generated a goal because of it.
I highly doubt there is one, because I’ve never seen the Kings score with him there. I’m sure there’s a video of him taking a bad penalty in front of the net, though.
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THANKS BIGTIME RICH!
I’m very much relieved Harry is on the right side. Someone speak to the LAKINGS.COM webmaster and help him understand that those kind of slip-ups cause fans to have coronaries.
I’m OK with Ivan on the third. It’s more of a checking line now, but it gives the 4th line potential scoring power with Moller AND Richardson. I think that line might surprise tonight. They may get more minutes.
I’d prefer a Manchester callup on the 3rd line (take your pick), but Ivan is there. I will say Drago made a VERY nice power move to the net from behind it against Columbus that surprised the HELL out of me. I didn’t believe for a SECOND he could do that. If he plays like THAT tonight, the third line might be fine, but NO STUPID PENALTIES. Just square up and drop the gloves with someone when you get the urge to cross-check.
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Hi….my name is Terry Murray,
I think it would be genius to replace my top forward whom has 5 points in 8 games and I place on the third line, with Ivanans who is a -2 and hasn’t put up any numbers.
This alone should get any coach fired. There is a reason why no one wanted to hire Murray…Can’t quite put my finger on it..OH YAH cause he couldn’t get along with top players…Hmmm Just Saying
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scooter is correct. you must match speed with speed or at least with a line that can throw a check without getting called for charging or cross checking (hello? Ivanans?).
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Cynic…that was more than likely my error. I quickly texted him player numbers and I think I transposed 15 and 5. Tried to do it too fast…
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Thanks Scooter.
I still don’t see how that really makes sense though. Ivanans isn’t that fast. Thus, all the penalties he takes due to being slow.
Also, Simmonds is plenty fast from what I’ve seen. I don’t think he’s going to slow down entry with Moller at all.
And, if it is about keeping fast why isn’t Ivanans scratched and Lewis in ? He’s surely faster than Ivanans and has been doing a pretty good job hustling into the corners on the forecheck.
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Haha Ersberg, that was hilarious. How Ivanans is still playing is beyond me.
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Scooter22,
I was in the ivanans doesnt make sense on the third line until I read your post. I think what you’re saying makes sense… I guess we will see tonight.
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Get a secretary Rich. You can afford one now, can’t ya?
At this rate of reporting, you’re gonna need a SERIOUS vacation my friend.
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GL – I think it is more about not playing Ivanans with Richardson and Harrold than it is about playing Moller with Zeus and Simmonds. That line would be a disaster – absolutely no scoring threat nor the ability to stop anything. there must be a balance. I’m not saying it is an ideal line but it makes the best use of what is available. Dallas plays physical and I think that is why you have Ivanans in the game rather than Lewis.
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Watch Ivanans get a goal and assist tonight in Fro’s spot and force TM to think about keeping the line together…that would be hilarious.
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lolz at the “AHL amigos” 4th line, but at least Moller’s presence won’t be wasted by being completely out of context with his skill set.
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Aw. Ok. I see more what you’re saying coming from that angle.
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Moller on the 4th line??? Ivanans on the 3rd? WHAT A JOKE!! ive been a kings fan for 20yrs now but im getting tired of this. really!
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wOw!!!
all I’m hearing is ‘BLAME FROLOV’
no-one else is ever mentioned as having played less than THEIR best, just Frolov….
hold HIM up as an example….because?….
it couldn’t have anything to do with contract bargaining
leverage, could it???
I’ll admit Fro didn’t play well, but their were certainly others, in fact most, who also didn’t play at the top of their game….
come to think of it, over the long haul, and esp. on the longest road trip of the year, it’s just not possible to be on top all the time….
these guys are human, not supermen….the part about not communicating, now that’s another matter…
no excuse there…
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Wow, this is gonna get uglier before its get any prettier. Ivanans needs less ice-time, not more.
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johnny,
you’re getting too wrapped up in the hierarchical implications of “3rd” or “4th” line. What exactly do you think Ivanans-Richardson-Harrold is going to do on the ice? At least TM is throwing Ivan with some bigger bodies and allowing Moller to skate with the speedier players.
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Who will be in net tonight?
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Taking bets, someone lays out Moller out at some point in the game. Any takers?? I mean what that kid weigh buck 50? Cause no one came to help him after last game, well other then Ivanans, but then again he might not have the skill but atleast he has heart.
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That’s why Moller SHOULD play with Zus and Simmonds.
Zus is a big-bodied center, and Simmonds plays big. Moller could be the speedy guy on the line, looking for openings.
It doesn’t matter, it’ll be a 5-1 game anyway.
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pr0cess -
I’ll take your bet. And in any case, Moller can dish it out as well as he can take it. And he can take it.
I doubt that hit the other night bothered Oscar at all. It was a clean hit. Not dangerous.
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Ivanans-Handzus-Simmonds……desperation time.
And how would you call 4th line? checking, energy….joke
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INTERESTING FACT.
Frolov-$43,283 a point
Kopitar- $103,030 a point
Zues-$95,238 a point
Richardson $117,600 a point
Stoll-$87,840 a point
Brown-$59,905 a point
This is all the Kings forwards (I didn’t count Williams cause he hasn’t really played a full season in a long time and Ivanans is not a point guy)! Current pay according to there stats from last year. What does this tell you? That FROLOV WORKS THE HARDEST FOR THE MONEY. What’s wrong with this organization when your best player is making the least amount of money and you still want MORE from him? Lets get more from guys like Richardson, Stoll, Zues. Those are the under achieving players…GEEEEEEEZ
Also just for reference:
Ovi-$85,160 a point
Kovi $70,329 a point
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Quisp-
O i know he can take a hit ive seen him creamed a few times now.. im just saying if the tread is true he will take another big one tonight. But hey thanks for playing along atleast i got the bet going lol
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And TM thinks that these new line combinations (without Frolov) makes this team actually better.
LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL.
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Kevin says:
October 19, 2009 at 2:05 PM
Who will be in net tonight?
It doesn’t matter whose in net tonite. With Ivanans on our checking/shutdown line, no one will get close to the net. Shoots will be like zero against LA. All our problems are solved now that frolov is gone…/sarcasm off
BTW Im calling it now Kings will get Shutout, just like last year when Fro was not in the line up. Also Quick will get the blame cause he lets in more than 1 goal (I say 5 tonite)
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Rich,
Is there something between you and Joe Caligiuri?
“Mr. Hypothetical, Rich Hammond, reports on something – it must be true.”…
“I’m indifferent to Rich Hammond’s work. He and I understand that we both write about two totally different things – He writes about what he sees and hears. I write about what he doesn’t see and hear. I enjoy playing chess; maybe it’s a game, maybe it’s me sending a message; regardless, he does his thing – I do mine” – http://socaljoecal.com/?p=208#comments
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WWAMD.
Between you and Khanon, I dont know who kicks the dead horse harder…. Probably Khanon because he kicks it with grit???
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thats the softest 4th line outside of detroit since the lockout.
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Hey WWAMD-
Now do that same math, but with turnovers and poor puck decisions that cost us games. See what the cost per turnover is. The lower the price per turnover, the higher the amount of turnovers that player has. Is that a bargain too? That might be the wake up call you need bud.
You can manipulate data many ways. There are no stats for heart.
How many times have you met Frolov and spoke with him? Well, the coaching staff has done it at least 10 times. I’m guessing that is more than you. Infact, I’m wondering if that when TM made that statement, if he meant 10 times since he’s been in the organ-eye-zation? or in the last 7 years? If it’s since TM has been here, to quote Waves…’That’s a HUGE Problem!’.
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AND THE RUMORS OF FRO IS POURING IN… so far he is going to Chicago, Boston, Mont., Minn and New Jer. on and on and on.
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I think the guys will play hard and give it a good go. But i think the moral will be down and will fall apart in the 3rd
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That can’t be the real, one-and-only Anthony, is it?
I need proof.
What was your typical method for describing TM?
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Jovie, nice find. I wonder what Joe’s problem with Rich is. The guy’s blog is barely coherent and ridiculously self-important, in my opinion. Must be fun for Rich to navigate some of these personalities.
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Cynic..
Let me address your post because I think its interesting and can be valid. However, I do not have stats on TO…Please if you can find a site that provides that I’d like to do some math on that as well. I know for a fact that Brown, Williams, Kopitar, Zues, Stoll and so many others cause MANY MANY TO’s and Murray doesn’t talk to them..Frolov has one and its Headline news.
Yes, supposedly Murray has “talked” to Frolov many times. Do you remember grade school or high school. If a teacher talks to a student many times it may mean that the student is bad. It may also mean that the teacher’s talks are useless and he or she is going about the wrong way in these “talks”. It may also mean that the teacher is basis and just completely hates the student.
I don’t know what the situation is between Fro and Murray. I can’t tell you. But just because Murray has a few talks with him doesn’t say much. If anything it means Murray is out to get him. Who counts past 5 anyways? Is he too busy documenting how many times he’s talked to him or how many years people have disliked Frolov? Why is he making a case against Fro? Shouldn’t he be mentoring him or I don’t know coaching the team during this time?
We win as a team and we lose as a team. We don’t blame star players every year!!!
Remember Murray was fired from Philly cause he couldn’t get along with star players….U can’t break bad habits!
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This isn’t the first time we’ve been made aware of possible attitude issues with Frolov, spanning multiple coaches. Given that we weren’t in the private meetings with Frolov, I think we have to assume that the coaching staff may know something we don’t here. Frolov is an immensely talented player and seems like a likeable enough guy, but I think time has unfortunately suggested that he may not fit with the Kings.
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Cynic
Sorry I just found a site that has these stats!
Wanna hear a WOW Factor?
FROLOV HAS THE LEASE AMOUNT OF GIVEAWAYS on his line and most of the Kings….JUST SAYING!
Frolov 2 Giveaways this year
Zues 5
Kopitar 3
Williams 7 (COUNT THEM 7)
Smyth 5
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Sorry forgot to add that Simmonds also has 5 give aways.
So let me go back to the orignal question
You got a guy who is arguably the best player on the roster
Who you get the MOST bang for your buck
Who has the least amount of giveaways (bottom of the spectrum) and most amount of Take aways (top of the spectrum) and has 5 points in 8 games. And you Scratch him and not only do u scratch him but you replace him with a guy who hasn’t done anything yet but take stupid penalties. Frolov has 9 hits…Ivanans has 5…..Hmmmm
Murray has an issue. Its been raised in the past and he’s been fired because of it. He needs to be fired again.
Bring on Guy Boucher!
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WWAMD-
My point was exactly that you can’t get stats on intangibles, yet they are an important part of what happens on a team. Heart is one of those intangibles. Turnovers from lazy play come from a lack of heart. If you can find stats, I’d like to see them too.
IIRC, Murray said he has spoken to Frolov many times, but he said “That’s the 10th meeting along those lines”. I don’t think Murray is the only one talking to Fro. If that student is a professional making a 7 figure salary to play a game, it is rather implied that he take direction well or the paychecks will stop coming. Student/Teacher comparisons don’t involve money and value of production for said money. Bad example.
“I don’t know what the situation is between Fro and Murray”, yet this doesn’t stop you from ripping TM and DL a new one and throwing ridiculous ideas out there about their abilities because you like Fro. WE ALL LIKE FRO, we just want him to listen and react with substance to the damn coach and management!
A perfect example of proper player conduct is Kpoitar. I forgot who mentioned it earlier, but Kopi got laid out publicly by management and he returnd in the best shape of his life and is playing loads better! THAT is a leaders attitude. THAT is a team guy. Why can’t Fro do that? Afraid he might get his Armani Jock in a bunch?
If you don’t know about Fro and Murray’s relationship, then I’m pretty certain you know just as much about why Murray was fired in Philly. Even if this WAS true (Which I highly doubt), people can change. I even believe YOU can change, but you gotta have heart son.
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WWAMD,
Do you really believe that Terry Murray has a vendetta to grind against Alex Frolov? How do you explain the fact that multiple coaches have observed this trait in him?
Furthermore, you’re taking a very oversimplified view of Murray scratching Fro. I don’t think anyone argues it makes the team better for tonight’s game. But the possibility remains that it will impact Frolov or the team meaningfully, and have an ultimately positive impact in the immediate future.
I’m not sure I fully buy that idea myself necessarily, but I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.
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WWAMD – Link?
I can count 2 turnovers in the game against Columbus for Fro! You are SO making that up! You gonna tell me he hasn’t given away a SINGLE PUCK in any other game except Columbus?!?!?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
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Cycnic.
Someone posted earlier that heart will get us place. Like Calders heart and Alyn’s heart and other great “heart” players we’ve had in the past.
PLEASE enough with the heart thing. EVERYONE has heart. Its up to the coach to make them care. Ever think that the COACH is crushing peoples heart? I’d hate to be frolov and be the only one called out when there is a mistake. I provided you with the Give away stat and Frolov is no where near the worst forward in GA, in fact he’s one of the best.
Murray was fired from Washington
“Washington General Manager David Poile said there had been a loss of confidence in Murray among players”
Murray was fired from Philly
“Murray was fired after the end of the 1997 playoffs. One website had described Terry’s shuffling of goaltenders Ron Hextall and Garth Snow to be unprofessional”
Bob Clarke stated
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19970614&id=HpkRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mOwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3507,1772860
“Problems between Murray and Players”
Murray was also fired from Florida too…..JUST SAYING!
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Rich,
Is there something between you and Joe Caligiuri?
“Mr. Hypothetical, Rich Hammond, reports on something – it must be true.”…
“I’m indifferent to Rich Hammond’s work. He and I understand that we both write about two totally different things – He writes about what he sees and hears. I write about what he doesn’t see and hear. I enjoy playing chess; maybe it’s a game, maybe it’s me sending a message; regardless, he does his thing – I do mine”
This guy sounds like a real douchbag. Even his web address is annoying.
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Lanny McDonald’s ‘Stache ,
Think what you want and i’ll think what i want!
Thanks!
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Lanny, I haven’t heard anything from other coaches…Sorry…Link?
Cynic
http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/team_stats?season=2009&team_id=8&sort_offense=giveaways&sort_offense_dir=asc&sort_defense=wins&sort_defense_dir=desc
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wow, what a line shakup! whatever you do TM dont move simmonds to help with offense and leave purcell and stoll right were they are, if its broke dont fix it leave it and hopefully after a million games without results you will be forced to change it.
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I don’t like the idea of sitting out frolov it’s a distraction and it punishes the team and the fans. There are other ways to punish players during practice, that’s what I’d do. Anyone who’s played sports or been in the military know what I’m talking about and it works.
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how about
smyth-kopi-simmonds
brown-moller-williams
purcell-zues-stoll
ivanans-richardson-harold
based on players in the lineup that are not scratched
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Its funny how everyone quiets down when I present them with all the stats which go against the perception that Murray and Dean have embedded in your heads.
Hmmm
Just Saying!
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cynic,
“Turnovers from lazy play come from a lack of heart.”
What in the hell are you talking about, man. You can at least put more thought into it Geez..
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You’re asking for a link? Hammond just posted a quote from TM saying he’s just the next in the line of coaches to have this problem.
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Oh but what the hell, here’s a link from the Andy Murray days, with quotes provided by the one and only Rich Hammond
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-140462491.html
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And just for completeness, here’s one from the Marc Crawford days: http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep/26/sports/sp-kings26
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WWAMD-
Kudos to you for providing the link but even YOU should realize this can’t be right. Like I mentioned, Fro had 2 giveaways in the game against Columbus ALONE! How does SN justify only one more giveaway by Fro in the other 7 games?!?! Their criteria can’t even be CLOSE to resonable. Not to mention, those numbers should be MUCH higher for everyone given the amount of back and forth play in each game. So out of respect for you, I’ll alter my comment to say You were just reporting what Sporting News made up.
I’m glad you posted the article on Bobby Clarke firing Terry Murray. You should read the ENTIRE article. “Clarke said four times that the player’s didn’t have any input into the decision. ‘It wasn’t their decision’ He said, ‘It is my responsibility and I talked to people in the organization who I trust, but the players were not asked.” Problem with players. If you don’t know what the relationship was with Murray and the Philly players, then how do you know why he got fired, AND WHY WOULD YOU GO BY THAT WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW?!?!
The interesting sidenote is that Hextall was in the middle of it all when Murray got fired, but wasn’t he one of the people that told Dean to hire him?
I love the comment regarding that too: “One website …shuffling of goaltenders….unprofessional”. What website…HOCKEYBUZZ? LOL Could be any unreputable site.
I’ll wait until OUR GM comes out and says he has a problem with Murray. As far as what Rich reported straight from Lombardi’s mouth “I think that when a coach makes a decision like this, WHICH I FULLY SUPPORT, that’s what he is looking at.” I guess Murray is just fine.
At least you backed it up. Nice work. My opinion is that you believe too much in what you read. It also scares me when you make comments like ‘The coaches are supposed to make the players care’. I’ll apologize now if this is not you, but that is like sayin the government is supposed to make me care about taking care of my family. LOL Don’t need help there, thanks..
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Frolov has had an attitude problem since day 1, just think how much he could score and how much more valuable he would be to the team if he actually put, lets say, 85% effort into his game. He plays whatever style he wants to and half the time him mind is up his arse. I say trade him and lets move on.
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Johnny,
Care to expand on your opinion??
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HBD -
What else is there for me to say in there?
Turnovers, those things that happen when you either give the puck to your opponent or they take it away from you, from lazy play, like when you don’t backcheck or shuffle up the ice instead of hustle or tap an opponent into the boards instead of check them, come from a lack of heart, heart: AKA caring about what you do, wanting to win every night and play for the Stanley Cup so you can take a bath in it or eat cheerios from it as opposed to taking shifts off (see ‘Lazy Play’) or smiling when you make turnovers that cost us games (Editor’s note: Reference Frolov Photo of s*it eating grin HERE).
How’s that? I was just trying to save you all from reading the long winded answers that I tend to give.
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haha perfect place in your argument to insert the mental image of Frolov’s cheshire cat grin, classic
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Is this a bad joke? Let me get it straight. We are benching a 30 goal scorer during a time when we cant score 2 goals a game and putting Ivanans in his place! I have not been frustrated at all by the Kings this season, but this move is as mindless as anything I have seen the Kings do in recent years. I understand that Fro had a bad game saturday, but seems like we are hurting ourselves tonight against a division opponent who we will be battling for a playoff spot.
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You guys crack me up with your Ivanans hate.
A guy that is in the lineup for one reason only, to intimidate the opposition, is gonna take some penaltys now and then while doing it.
Ask Oscar Moller, or Davis Drewiske if they like having him around. Or better yet, ask Jody Shelley, or Brad Staubitz what they think of him in the Kings lineup. He serves his purpose very well.
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Belexes-
It’s not that we don’t like Ivan around. I’m all for watching him beat down opponents into oblivion. But he’s also supposed to be an NHL hockey player. There are PLENTY of enforcers in this league who understand how to do their job wothout taking ridiculous penalties. If Drago could sharpen up his hockey smarts a little, he’d be a great asset. Did you see Staubitz run from him like a little girl, hiding behind the referee after that hit on Drewiskie in the corner in the San Jose game? PRICELESS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJJj0EusK0A
Bad penalties don’t help us. Plenty of enforcers do their job without taking them. Ivan can also.
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this is like the patriots benching randy moss for dropped passes.
just give the russian what he wants.
frolov-kopi-symth
williams-stoll-brown
purcell-handaddy-simmer
moller-richardson-harrold
PLEASE NOTE: the clown show known as ivanans is not located on this list.
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-quote- “PLEASE NOTE: the clown show known as ivanans is not located on this list.”
I should have added that my post was only intended for serious NHL fans.
btw, you dont think an NFL team would bench a guy for dropping passes? lol
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Belexes-
dont hate. As Cynic says there are plenty of enforcers in the NHL who dont take STUPID penalties, as Ivanans does.
MOST RECENT EXAMPLES: Shrek takes penalties against the Rangers and Blue Jackets that lead to untimely PPG’s.
One more thing: He is very much a clown show.
2008-2009
76 games
2 goals
0 assists
2 points
-8
145 PIM
…enough said.
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WWMAD,
I am diggin it baby.
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