alt="LA Kings Insider with Rich Hammond" />I just had a quick interview with Dean Lombardi regarding Alexander Frolov’s status. Again, I have requested that Frolov be made available for an interview before the game. I’ll certainly let you know if that does or doesn’t happen…
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Question: Terry indicated that when he tries to talk to Frolov, he’s not getting any response. Have you talked with him?
LOMBARDI: “Have I talked to Frolov?’’
Question: In the last few days, I mean.
LOMBARDI: “My last meeting with him was probably before the Minnesota game, so a couple weeks ago.’’
Question: So what is your take on this? Terry is unhappy with his game and indicates that he can’t get through to him. What’s your view?
LOMBARDI: “Well, I don’t think it’s the first time that a player who hasn’t been performing has been taken out of the lineup. It’s either, you can cut down on their ice time or they’re not going to dress. There’s two issues here. When a player with ability is not performing to the best of his ability, it’s not only him that you’re trying to get going. You’ve got to be aware of the message it sends to the rest of your team. Is this going to be acceptable? This is what I think a coach confronts, there on the front lines. Everyone is seeing it, but mainly the teammates are seeing it. And if that’s going to be accepted, then they’re going to think it’s acceptable. And it’s not.
“So those are the two issues that we deal with. I think that when a coach makes a decision like this, which I fully support, that’s what he is looking at. We tried everything to get him going. As Murph said, he himself has tried talking to him numerous times. If he’s not going to respond, you have to be aware of the message it sends to the rest of your team.’’
Question: When Terry says that he’s not the first coach to deal with this, and you’re not the first GM to deal with this, that sounds like a substantial problem. How do you deal with it going forward?
LOMBARDI: “When you sit a player out, and it’s a player who should be one of your best players, it’s safe to say you’ve probably tried everything. This is not something that was a knee-jerk reaction. That’s the first thing. Then, like I said, you’re worried about the message it sends to the rest of the team, because you want those guys to play hard.
“As far as how you handle it, you see how he responds, and then we make our decisions accordingly. We’re going in the right direction. He’s either going to get on board or we’ll go in another direction with him. It’s as simple as that. I like a lot of the things I’m seeing, with what we’re trying to establish here. Get or board, or there’s another way too. But like I said, this is not a knee-jerk reaction.’’
Lombardi sounds like he was in a testy mood. Maybe he’s putting his feelers out on a Fro trade and not liking what’s been offered so far.
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“Not knee-jerk”
Translations: We expected it to come to this.
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Well at least we know they’re giving him another chance. This is make or break for Frolov, if he keeps slumping and playing bad, expect him to get dealt..
If he starts stepping his game up, he’ll get the contract extension, simple as that.
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“hmmmm, better not make this any more inflamitory”
“hmmm, I hope Mr. Anschutz hasn’t gotten wind of this”
“Hmmmm. At this rate, I wont even be able to trade Fro for Derek Armstrong.”
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I feel bad for Frolov.
He just hasn’t been able to fit in Murrays style of hockey.
And you know what, It’s not all Frolovs fault.
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The lineup for tonight is SUCH a joke.. For those who thought Moller would be playing with Handzus and Simmonds is wrong..
it’s going to be like this:
IVANANS-Handzus-Simmonds
Moller-Harrold-Richardson
wow.. speechless :|
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Rich, Do you know how the Kings skated in practice today? Who’s going in or replacing Fro’s place? Ritas on the 3rd line? Thats Awesome!!!!!!
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AK–
The rest of the team tonight has a chance to make a statement, to Fro and the rest of the league.
I hope that that statement is:
We are the Los Angeles Kings. Be afraid when you play us… always! With or without our stars, with or without full health, the Kings always come to the rink to win. Be afraid! We are coming!
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Over/Under on Raitis penalty minutes tonight? I’m going with 12 as the line.
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Frolov to the ducks for Mike Brown and Brookbank. Make it happen Deanno!
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We’ve been hearing stuff about Frolov for many years. Even Foxy has called him an “enigma” since one day he’s good, then the next he’s just blah. Unfortunately, Frolov runs hot and cold and gives the appearance he just doesn’t truly and deeply care. I would have preferred this didn’t become public, since now his trade value just took a big dive.
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BakoCAkingsCondorsGuy ,
Yeah, opponents will be scared when they see Kopitar, Smyth, Williams, Frolov, Simmonds, Handzus, Lewis, Richardson, Purcell, and Harrold skating towards them finishing a check… Maybe in your dreams buddy
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Fine, then make a deal to get players you want here.
What’s the hold-up?
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“When a player with ability is not performing to the best of his ability…”
Riiight, how about get him off the 3rd line!
Here’s what Lombardi should have said: When a 1st/2nd player with ability is not performing to the best of his ability because we put him on the third line, then we need to either put him back on the 1st or 2nd line, or trade him.
I like DL and TM, but I don’t like what they’re doing to Fro. They put him on the 3rd line and are not happy with his play so they bench him. Bull!
Trade Fro now. Both parties wil be happier in the end.
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Also, this story is the lead on TSN. Fully of quotes from Rich’s interview.
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Rich-
Thanks for all this lately. Incredible stuff. We need another favor though:
Can you verify the lines skating tonight as soon as possible please? Harrold as the 4th line center doesn’t make ANY sense whatsoever. IF he is at center, see if TM is in the mood to explain because it is contradictory to his comments when Harry took the faceoff the other night.
I’m thinking the website is wrong and it’s Richardson at Center with Harry on the Right.
‘Stache: I’ll take the over and I want a bonus payout when it’s double the line. ;-)
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It’s not the star power that wins games, it’s the power in your stars… Why else did Washington look so lame in Game 7 against Pittsburgh, in last year’s playoffs?
Maybe when someone on the Kings cleans their clocks they’ll be afraid.
Maybe when someone on the Kings keeps beating them to the puck in the corners, then they’ll be afraid.
It’s the effort level that makes the other team afraid, not the good-looking star power that a lot of wannabee players have.
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Hey Dean and Terry
That line was garbage the entire week, anyway.
Frolov – Handzus – Simmonds
I repeat, they were garbage. Yet Frolov is getting all the blame? What has Handzus done all week? What about Simmonds? Wayne Simmonds is only good skating through the nuetral zone, after that he has no clue what to do.
Putting Frolov on that line to begin with was trouble.
You’re not helping the team when you have a player like Fro playing on a “shutdown” line. Are you crazy?
We have this cheap line as our secondary scoring line..
Purcell – Stoll – Brown
I thought we were trying to make the playoffs this season?
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Can anyone tell me why Colorado has had such a great start? It ain’t their star power!
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Go look at the TSN comments. Canadians LOVE the fact that TM is publicly challenging Fro and making him accountable. A few blame him, but most RAVE about this and they wish their coaches would do the same for their teams.
I thought it was funny also, Someone said something to the effect of ‘He’s soft, oh crap, he’s coming to Montreal.’ LOL. He’d probably do well with Camalleri, or maybe not.
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Haha Cynic, if Ivan hits 24 PIM I am finding you at a home game and presenting you with a jumbo beer as your bonus!
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Its beyond repair. The 7 year itch is fully in effect.
Its best for both parties that we cut the cord now. Frolov is a great player…but not what we need. I’m not going to bother evaluating him…we’ve all done it plenty today. But its like a marriage gone stale…the excitement is gone. He needs to ‘experience new things’ like a new team…
And the same with the Kings…Frolov, much like Visnovsky represents the old guard. He represents everything that was wrong with the culture of the team. Again, not saying he’s a bad player, but he’s gotten too comfortable where he is. With his contract coming due, the time has come. Its not easy being GM for this very reason right here…but we all know that this is a topic that has been addressed time and again. Time to bury it and move on.
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Your star player isnt playing like a star so make him pay, thats the bottomline. Unfortunately, he hasnt really showed any change of attitude from his poor plays unlike when Doughty or Brown were playing lackluster. They basically make it up for playing defensively better, score a goal, or just hitting people. Those little things really make things better than one bad play. The bad things always stick longer than the good little things a player does. For fro, he had a big whammy with the turnover, plus the “dont care” attitude” … if i were coach that would put me over the edge as well.
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DONE ‘Stache!
I just hope they’re (3) 5 Min. Majors for Fighting with a 10 Min misconduct on the 3rd fight, because I could see him taking a 5 & 10 with (5) separate 2 minute minor calls. LOL
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I really have a problem with all this being aired to the public like this. First they say Frolov is one of the best players on the team and yet they have him playing on the 3rd line. That doesn’t add up. And what is his trade value now that the whole NHL knows he’s been a problem for seven years?
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This has to be reason number 2340, as to why Dean Lombardi is the DUMBEST GM in Hockey today. The weird thing is Brian Burke is following in his footsteps.
Do NOT Dean DO NOT tell people how you feel about your players. Please for the love of God STFU already about your team. How many times do you heard Ken Holland talk about his team? ZERO
This is the last straw for me…FIRE DEAN FIRE MURRAY.
This GM is a moron. OK so you don’t like Frolov..I get it. For some reason you read War and Peace and that was your first assignment as a GM. So obviously you didn’t like him from the start. But who cares, so you don’t like the most skilled players in the Kings roster and you want to get rid of him. Seems all to familiar…Take Cammy for example. Since you openinly hated Cammy, his value sucked. Can you believe you traded a 30 plus goal scorer and a pick for another pick! THATS BS
Now you made it public you hate another 30 + goal scorer. YES for some reason if your a 30+ goal scorer in LA Dean will not like this! So slow down Smyth and Kopi…look at Brown he has the right idea, slow and steady wins Deans heart. So what can you get for Frolov now? NOTHING! Everyone has Dean by the balls now…WHO PUT Dean in that position? DEAN HIMSELF
Listen I love Fro I think he’s great, but he’s surrounded by a bunch of monkeys with crap for brains. Once he is traded, he will shine where ever he goes and be noticed in the League as a top 10 player.
SO WHYYYYYY is Dean doing this? Well its obvious…its to complete is LOVE CIRCLE….He wants that last piece that he’s been dieing for. He wants that forbidden fruit…He wants that last experiment that will again go WRONG…Who does he want? We all know…you know who it is…Yes Patrick Marleau. This will be the straw that breaks the camals back. Marleau is CRAP but in Deans heart he’s the one that got away. He wants Patrick in his roster again. NOTHING makes Dean more made then Patrick all of a sudden putting up points and Frolov isn’t matching, so Dean thinks HOW can I go wrong right now? I need to get my Patrick back…Look how good my boy is doing. This move is gaurenteed to work out. Look at my Patrick…YEAH…Well Patrick sucks and he’ll suck on this LA team…PS look at the line Marleau is playing on and look at Frolov….Fair chance much? JUST SAYING!
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TB,
I think you’re on to something. Maybe Dean just wants to get rid of the other players from the other regime. Even got rid of Lubo Visnovsky. Frolov is next.
Hell, Lombardi was probably trying to trade him the first day he arrived. Yet he couldnt deny the talent, which made it hard to move him.
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Ridiculous to point the finger at Frolov. Many players have looked like crap over the past few games, almost all have failed to live up to expectations recently. All this does is reduce Frolov’s trade value and/or guarantee that he will never re-sign here. Some things never change……
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Frolov is the least commited player on the team. He makes too many mistakes for a player of his skill level. Time to cut him and get what we can and keep the team on the right track as well as the correct mindset.
I heard somewhere that they like him up in Canada. Whats up w/ that?
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Trade him for grit; nobody will trade a scorer for him. Bring in a tough third liner, similar to Mike Brown, and a tough stay at home D-man.
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I don’t remember this myself (may have been typing at the time) but I just talked to someone who remembers Frolov laughing on the bench after his bad play last game. If that is so, it is reason enough for all this to come out publicly.
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It just occurred to me..
With all these quotes coming out, even on the front page of TSN..
Other GMs are going to read this and think Frolov is another troublesome Russian. Now his trade value is NOTHING.
What a disaster.
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Well, seems like Frolov days are over in a Kings jersey. He is not gonna produce on that checking line and that’s what they expect of him. Let’s trade for another goal scorer and put him with zeus and simmonds and see how he does.
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Hey there is a guy name Luongo who had a terrible start this season. Lets bench him too. Just saying
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Nah, his trade value is exactly what it will always be. Every GM knows every player in the league somewhat.
For all we know this could just be justification before the fact. He could already be traded for petes sake. Just not announced.
Either way, Fro has to buck up or buck off. Ya know?
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Look it doesn’t matter one iota who the GM or coach is or who his line mates are. If a any coach has a conversation with a player and all they do is sit there in silence and say nothing, then that is a major character problem. And I mean MAJOR. I simply do not like any player that acts this way. I don’t care how good they are, I don’t want them on my team. He is clearly not a team guy. The Enigma is now the Cancer. Ship him out now.
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Hey WWAMD-
Rich specifically said to treat the posters here with respect. Dean and Terry probably come here, considering this site is OWNED BY THE KINGS.
Just Sayin’…..
BTW – Marleau has 6 goals so far this season.
Also Just Sayin’…………
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Matt R
Good point.
You dont take your QB and make him play Linebacker because you dont like his perfomance.
(although a couple linebackers might be just what this team needs)
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I like the Fro man, but few days back after the last lose i said something isnt right the team looks like they had no heart. Maybe this was the 600lb gorilla in the corner.
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Quote -” I don’t remember this myself (may have been typing at the time) but I just talked to someone who remembers Frolov laughing on the bench after his bad play last game. If that is so, it is reason enough for all this to come out publicly.”
Yes it was true, and he had that stupid smile going too, but that was prolly cuz TM was tellin him that he was going to say “mean things” about him to the media.
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Like that line Waves:
“The Enigma is now the Cancer”.
That pretty much says it all.
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His trade value is up for him to make. its not the coach’s or GM’s job … but players get publicly called out all teh time in Canada ( and i would know because im from Toronto) and some people just react to things differently by playing great or whining and complaining ala Dany Heatley. He may not have aired out his problems himself, but keeping mum about his poor play isnt exactly workign either or hasnt worked for eyars. This is just the end of the line with him and I do agree that the players of the old regime are being replaced because they dont fit with the team the current GM wants. But thats every team’s GM decisions to make. We must let go and shed all the old skin too at some point, Fro just isnt cutting the new identity and system the Kings have.
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Just a reality check here people.
Dean was also openly critical of Kopitar.
What was Kopi’s response? Work the hell out and step up his game. I think everyone will agree Kopi’s making a hell of an effort to take it to the next level. And give me a break with the “he’s handicapped on the third line” bull.
Quite frankly I have never seen Fro even attempt to bring it to an elite level … sometimes I wonder if this guy is on the take with some russian mafioso … it’s the only thing that explains some of his completely excuseless passing.
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I just thought of another line:
After seeing the Heidi Androl Mall special with Fro, “I guess he likes shopping more than winning.”
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Process,
The “600lb” gorilla in the room is the entire line-up. Its stacked with heartless, wimpy, characterless, and weak players. Nobody takes the body, with the exception of Brown, O’D, and Greene. Nobody is willing to go in the corners, except for Smyth. This team is a joke
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Rich, can you ask TM, DL or Frolov is any of the other players have spoken with him about his (percieved) lack of interest/effort? I’m curious whether the on-ice leadership has made any attempt to reach him. Perhaps Frolov would identify and communicate with his peers better.
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For those saying that this type of situation has no impact on his trade value, you couldn’t be more wrong.
If I was gonna sell you my “lightly used” truck, and then told you that it never worked as well as I wanted it to, are you gonna want to pay full price?? Of course not. This slip of the tongue has been a catastrophe for Fro’s value…..just wait and see.
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frolov..purcell and ersberg to atlanta for kovalchuck and a draft pick?? i like it
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Khanon i keep seeing what you see also, im not saying we should be killing people every shift, but damn can we hit someone like it wasnt practice? At times it just make me sick to see how people run are skilled players. Im just saying something needs to happen.
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Someone please wake me up….
The Kings go on their longest road trip of the year and are 2-3 with one game to play.
They win the first two games of the trip scoring a total of 4 goals.
They lose to the NYR and Wings in back to back games and lose to CBJ who has one of the best records in the league.
1/3 of the team comes down with the flu including Frolov and he gets benched?
We haven’t even played 10 games this season!
TM’s big move is to bench Frolov in favor of Ivanans with no other changes
Someone please tell me WTF we are talking about Frolov?
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If DL trades Frolov to San jose for Patrick Marleau, his failure will be complete.
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I’ve watched almost every game this season, 3 of them live, Frolov isn’t to blame for our losses, but he is clearly not playing to his potential. His strength has always been puck possession, yet I’ve seen him get man handled more times this year than all of last year, it’s as if he didn’t train in the off season…and he’s not putting in that much effort away from the puck, you look at his linemate Simmonds and then him and it’s like Fro is standing still waiting for something to happen…I life Fro, he is very talented, but I’m starting to think he’s another lazy Russian player that doesn’t have what it takes to be successful in the NHL and we’ll see him in the KHL next summer with Zherdev
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Process,
I completely agree. When a team gets out-hit by the wings, you know you have an extremely weak team. DL talks the talk but doesn’t walk the walk. Culture, identity, protecting teammates, etc… Get some players that will create a culture/identity, that will protect teammates, that will throw some checks, that will drop the gloves when needed, that will open up the ice for the skilled, that will bring some HONOR AND RESPECT to this team once and for all…
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anthony, you’re the other big story today. what brought you back? and why would you want a person with little or no character on your team? oh, wait…
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anthony….THANKS! glad to hear from you and I can’t believe how our views are sooooo similar…Would like to talk hockey with you one day. Should be a good laugh!
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Probably not as good a laugh as we’re getting reading both your posts!
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“anthony says:
October 19, 2009 at 1:52 PM
If DL trades Frolov to San jose for Patrick Marleau, his failure will be complete.”
Are you in league with some Dark Sith Lord, or what?
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Oh by the way:
How many of you thought the Senators would get what they got after Heatley self-destructed?
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agree with dMan … i liek the way you think!!
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Thought we were gonna see alot more team toughness this year with the good camp from the top 2 18 yr olds, as well as Clune and Westy stayin around late. But like usual, it doesn’t happen….instead we hear the non stop soppy love affair about players like….Peter Harrold?? give me a break.
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and it for sure didnt really stop ottawa from getting 2 good players and a pick for heatley now did it??? player’s values are as black and white as they come … the grey is often overshadowed … pun intended
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JohnJuan – yes, this teams needs a Ray Lewis. And an Ed Reed.
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RICH .. (or anyone else can answer this)
Is there any financial impact on a player being benched for a night?
If not … I really see this backfiring as Fro would just enjoy the day off.
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There is one thing about this that hasn’t been discussed.
Suppose this benching is exactly what Fro has needed all along, but no one had the spine to do it?
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putting Frolov on the third line is about as good an idea as making Boyle a defenseman. although he is well schooled as a puck handler he has an offensive mindset and should not have been used on a defensive line. i think the comments from Lombardi and Murray are there to convince fans that trading Frolov, a popular player, is the right move.
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The Ottawa Sens are a shell of their team last year, and clearly got the worst end of that deal.
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IM not saying we need to scream the sky is falling, but something needs to happen. I just wonder whos on the same page and who isnt?? Like i said i like the Fro man, but maybe he is tired of getting man handled? khanon had it right when the wings throw the “bigger” team around what the hell is going on?
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I’ve been noticing Frolov’s lack of compete for the last three games. You can’t teach heart, no matter how much talent a payer has, without heart he’ll never be a champion.
I still remember what Magic Johnson said years ago when taking about playing pick up BBall. When choosing up teams he would pass over the best players and pick the ones who hated to lose the most. He said the same holds true of pro sports. Character wins championships.
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Apparently some of you can’t read. Frolov is not being scratched because he made a bad pass. He is not being scratched because he’s not scoring. He’s being scratched because he doesn’t do what the coach tells him to do. Read the Lombardi and Murray quotes. “It sends a bad message to the rest of the team” if Frolov’s behavior is without consequence. Anybody who says, well, they should just put Frolov on the 2nd line or the 1st line is missing the point. There is no third line. If you look at the numbers, Frolov is not being put out in defensive situations, and this is especially true when Murray has the last change. In the home games, Frolov was getting put out there against the other team’s weakest lines. Period. So stop saying he’s on the defensive stopper checking whatever line. He’s not. (well, now he’s not on any line.) Handzus is better than Stoll and Simmonds is playing at least as well as Brown and that goes back to much of last season, so there’s really no way the Handzus line is inferior to the Stoll line.
Anyway, if you think Frolov should be given carte blanche, then I guess you’re solidly in the stars trump team camp, the Gretzky doesn’t have to do what Ftorek says camp. I hate that camp.
p.s. Patrick Marleau > Frolov.
p.p.s. Frolov’s trade value is high. It is high and will always be high. Because he can dominate a game and score. When he blah blah. GMs don’t get their scouting from The Hockey News or TSN or whatever. And anyone who wants him will just convince themselves that Frolov is sucking because he’s pouting because no one in LA loves him and once he’s on (Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, etc.) he’ll be a different player. Just like Patrick O’Sullivan.
Underline: I like Frolov. But if I were the coach and I had a player who literally did not respond to me when I met with him one on one, I would scratch him permanently. Sorry. That’s not allowed.
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quote – “Anyway, if you think Frolov should be given carte blanche, then I guess you’re solidly in the stars trump team camp, the Gretzky doesn’t have to do what Ftorek says camp. I hate that camp.”
Bad, Bad way to make your point….Ftorek got fired, Gretzky led the Kinngs to the Stanley Cup Finals….ouch
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Misery loves Company ,The Season is early Let’s get this straightened out. GO KINGS GO
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I am as mystified with all the anti-Frolov comments as I am with the attitude of Murray and Lombardi towards Frolov. This is where we are ont his subject—Frolov is one of our top players, if not our best. Yes, there have been problems throughout with the various coaches. He has been benched, has had his minutes cut, has been demoted to the 3rd line and has been browbeaten. However, he continues to produce.
Now, he is benched again. Why? Because he made a bad play, is not performing to the required level and does not show enough energy. Tell me how he can produce on an up to this point mediocre line. Let’s face it,t he 3rd line has been weak. Handzus and Simmonds are both struggling…is that because of Frolov?
No matter what Frolov has accomplished, it is never enough. This season he has been put into a spot that makes it even harder for him to produce. Yet, there is not responsibility on anyone other than him. Murray appears to be using Frolov as a scapegoat, and Lombardi appears to be promoting that as well. How about we put some responsibility or give ownership to the coach and GM for their decisions? Why do we tolerate Ivanans achieving nothing, constantly putting us in a bad position, and that is OK? And Frolov si the problem? Give me a freaking break. Murray, it is your team, and lots of players are struggling. Take responsibility yourself, and let Frolov take the place of Williams on the first line and see what happens. So far, coach murray, your performance is less than what we expect.
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WWAMD I thought you were Anthony? LOL
Matt George I was thinking the exact same thing. He called Kopitar out and Kopitar is playing the best hockey of his young career. He took it the right way.
Like DellaNooch said..he’ll be playing in the KHL collecting the huge paycheck and he’ll be remembered as part of the losing culture of the Kings.
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Big game tonight for the Kings.
Let’s hope they come out and play with some fire.
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Thank you Quisp-
No matter how many times you explain it, some people still won’t get it. It’s almost as frustrating as these past 7 years waiting for Frolov to ‘Blossom’.
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Belexes – I thought you were being sarcastic, but then I saw the earlier Heatley-related comments to which I assume you must have been replying.
With a 5-2, record and a solid top 6, Ottawa is hardly a “shell” of their previous self. Heatley, incidentally, was just demoted to 2nd team PP in SJ, which was apparently what pushed him over the edge in Ottawa (along with his failure at convincing the veterans to join him in rebelling against Clouston). Michalek, Kovalev, LeClaire and even Carkner have revitalized the Sens. Cheechoo alas, has done little…
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Bottom line to all of this as fans:
If Frolov cared about the game as much us fans did, especially here on this blog, there would be no need for such a discussion. He would be a madman on the ice.
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yes quisp … while other players are maturing and getting their the right way and direction, there are some players like Fro that is stuck in their old ways. ANd because he had skill and is potentially a great player he had some passes back then, but not anymore with how the team is trying to develop something special. I honestly think he is sticking out like a sore thumb in the bad culture that we have harbored back then and now its just glaring and people are still looking past it. Irregaredless, it IS his contract year and its sink or swim for him with the Kings. He wont thrive with the system now if he keeps “coasting” and it does show a bad example to the otehr younger players.
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I like it!!
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Quisp,
the coach has stated the defensive responsibilities of the 3rd line on many occasions. carte blanche is not the issue, i just don’t think he is being use in a way that maximizes his ability. the rest of your comments about management not getting what they want and sending messages are clearly true. anyway, i think the point is management is making a public case to trade a high quality offensive player who is popular, and a life long King.
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All we can ask from Management is a little consistency and CREATIVENESS. Benching Frolov I can live with but benching him and than going with the same lines…that is nothing more than stubbornness and lack of imagination.
TM, you might get lucky tonight with the team being healthier and you look genus benching Fro, I hope that is the case. But if we get whacked again tonight what’s plan B?
If that happens, we better see other players sitting in the press box for poor play, i.e. Stoll, Brown, Zeus, Simmonds, Richardson (no points this season) or the rest of the team and blog will see right through this charade.
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It is unfair to put all the blame on Frolov. TM put him on a 3rd line and wants him to be the best player. ( by the way, he scored more goals last year than any other “King”) How?! Simmonds is a bust this year. He shoud be sent to Manchester. Handzus is O.K. some games but not good eather. Why Frolov? Is Brown playing better? Or Stoll? Or Johnson No! Put him together with good players and then we would be able to see what he can do or don’t …Ivanans cost us a game on Saturday with his stupid penalty , not Frolov.( please get rid of him a.s.a.p.) And coach Murray, you can blame Frolov but how about penalty killing and power play?! That what coused us last 3 games!!! Plus our goaltending is average at best. Don’t get me wrong, Frolov should play bettet (as well as other guys, especially Brown,Stoll, Williams, Johnson)but don’t blame just a one guy for the whole team failure.
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Quote -
“Belexes – I thought you were being sarcastic, but then I saw the earlier Heatley-related comments to which I assume you must have been replying. ”
The point I was making is that you could hardly call the Sens a better team after the Heatley trade. And when 3 of those 5 wins have come against the Isles, Montreal, and Toronto….enough said.
Point is Heatley was a steal for the Sharks.
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Thank you Quisp for a great post.
Count me in as one of the exhausted fans tired of waiting for Frolov to “blossom” into the great player that it appears to me Kopi is now becoming.
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quote -
“Thank you Quisp for a great post.
Count me in as one of the exhausted fans tired of waiting for Frolov to “blossom” into the great player that it appears to me Kopi is now becoming.”
this puzzles me. tired of waiting for the kings top scorer??
quote -
“Frolov is sucking because he’s pouting because no one in LA loves him and once he’s on (Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, etc.) he’ll be a different player. Just like Patrick O’Sullivan. ”
Yeah, Sully’s 1 goal has really turned him around! Oh brother!!!
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i dont think his production is much in question as to his attitude and heart. soem of you people are just so blinded about statistics and numbers that their are other factors to consider. Fro hasnt been competing to his level … an elite level that we all know and see very few glimpses of it. Besides if we really jsut settle for him as a 30 goal scorer then he IS just as pointless then ebcause this guy has a lot more potential than 30 goals. Mind you that he got those 30+ goals ona bad team … its time to move forward and he aint catching up.
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Belexes, I’m pretty sure the “just like sully” line was completely sarcastic, hence Sulking Sully not doing any better in the great white north.
The bottom line is, I don’t care if he scores 50 goals, do you want a guy who won’t talk to the coach on the team?
Mind you, this isn’t one coach or even one GM. They ALL have had the same problems.
I can only now imagine what the players think…
Many I wish I could hear those conversations.
The Cancer needs to go. He’s done.
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oh ok then…. this is only about attitude and not production? I think I’ll move on.
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Have to say I really appreciate your post Quisp. I have my own opinions about this, mixed really, and when something this sensitive comes up you’re the first name I look for in the comments to hear what you think. I respect what you have to say.
Although, not to be petty but before the season I said the fourth line would be Ivanans-Richardson-Harrold most of the time. Your response was that you wondered just how many of those guys would be on the team by the time of the season. Well…
Hey, it seems like you’re always right, just had to point that one out! ;) Though I’m not thrilled to be right.
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So Fro doesn’t get along with his coach. Is that his fault, or is the coach being a jerk about it (including airing dirty laundry about it)? This problem isn’t Fro’s, it’s been totally mismanaged by the Kings Brass. I dont like his aloof approach either, but Fro always seems to get his points. By pushing, and pushing Fro, do you think you’re gonna turn him into Sydney Crosby? No, not gonna happen…but the Kings may think otherwise, of their “used to be” top scorer.
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Hey Quisp, since you’re always right, what happened to the Kings after they fired Robbie Ftorek for mishandling the teams top players?
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Great post Quisp, as usual.
Belexes, don’t confuse what Quisp is saying another GM will be thinking (regarding O’Sullivan) for what he (Quisp) is thinking. That was the kind of thinking that had EDM trading for him, and he’s talking about that thinking, not O’Sullivan’s performance. EDM had high hopes for O’Sullivan this season coming in. If you saw any of the early EDM games, they talked him up as being the break-out player to watch this year to start the season.
Frolov is fourth in ice time for forwards. I kind of wonder about the “third line” thing also, but the numbers show he’s getting the minutes and Q points out additionally he isn’t getting them against the top lines.
I do wonder what this means for his future with the club, but Fro has always been a hard player to reach, and it’s not like the team doesn’t know that going in. Suppose his future with the club, as it always has been, seems to rest on what he wants relative to how much the team knows they are and are not going to get out of him being that enigma.
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i love the comments from DL and I agree with them. I said earlier in the announcement thread this isn’t the first time we have been dealing with this stuff from the player. And that was before I realized how much they have been talking to him to get him to change his game recently.
I think because of the talent level he does have fans and past coaches have let him slack off without getting on him. I think we still see that here from fans. I am glad management and the coaches aren’t going to deal with it like that anymore. He shouldn’t be above everyone else. Bad play is one thing but to me there is still an effort problem and a problem with how he deals with his bad play as well.
I am guessing he doesn’t change as much as they want after he is back in the lineup and a trade will happen. Most likely a trade will light a fire under him and he will play great for the rest of the year for his new team and fans here will say I told you so. Only he will go back to his old habits once he signs his new contract.
I hope I am wrong, but to me it has been the same thing with him every year.
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Belexes, not getting along with the coach would be a good thing. In fact, I don’t care if he hates the coach. At least it shows emotion. Frolov doesn’t say ANYTHING. If you don’t think this is completely unacceptable behavior, then I’m afraid you don’t care about the quality of character on your team. If that’s the case, say so. Otherwise, face the fact that it’s not 1 coach, not 2 coaches, but THREE coaches that have had these problems.
What happened to the Kings after they got rid of Ftorek? They went to the playoffs for the next 4 years straight, including the stanley cup finals.
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Quisp, way to eloquently describe the way I think a lot of Kings fans feel, even if we’re not as loud as the doomsayers.
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Yeah, I’ve been a lil pissed ever since I heard TM’s comments today. Not meaning to take my anger out on you loyal Kings fans. TM just could have handled this much better. Nobody likes being micro-managed, and they should just stop trying to reinvent Alex Frolov. Either, leave him alone and let him score his 30-something goals, with some offensive forwards, or cut him loose and let another team deal with it. he is, what he is!
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The idea of placing a player with the abilities of Frolov on a 3rd line is to try and motivate him to try a bit harder, and get him to perform. Frolov is good, no question. His downside being that he can be quite inconsistent for decent stretches.
TM does not appear to be getting to Frolov. DL seems to have the same issue. DL has already said that he would like to make some kind of mid-season trade. This may be the start of more serious trade negotiations. I think that the idea with Fro starting the season on the 3rd line, was to try and motivate him to buy in to Murray’s system, and not to trade him unless it is a last resort situation.
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Have to give props to Quisp’s post as well. If I had read that first i probably wouldn’t have bothered with mine. But I have to say I feel even more strongly about this after reading the TM intereview where Fro doesn’t even respond at all when he is talked to about that stuff. Seems to me it is time to go. This isn’t about him and TM not getting along. They are right it has always been this way from him. His play has always been the same. Sure he scores in bunches at times, but he is never consistent and certainly isn’t bringing it at all lately. Maybe he wants out now himself.
Sad that a player with that kind of talent wastes it like he does. People always talk about him being a consistent 30 goal scorer, but with his talent he could be so much more if he brought it with passion to the game every day.
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Before I lay down some cash and buy tickets, I’m going to want to know if any of the best players are scratched for that game.
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Murray, I bench you!!!
You left Justin Williams on the point during the PP ( after Nash had already TOASTED him once) and Nash whipped him like a rented mule for the game winner.
And don’t forget we only scored once.
You win as a team and you lose as a team.
Isn’t Terry Murray a part of this team?
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Matt George,
Let’s say Malkin gets traded to the Kings. Do you think he’s going to produce as many points playing on a line with Zeus and Simmer as he would with Kopi and Smyth? Do you think that a player of that level, or any level for that matter, is capable of producing the same number of points regardless of who he plays with?
I’ve been watching hockey for over 20 years and playing for 16 so I do know something about this. A players production is absolutely affected by the people he plays with. If it doesn’t matter who he plays with then why not put him out alone? You could have teams of one goalie and one skater. Save a ton of money that way.
Give me a break with your “give me a break”.
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Rich, I certainly understand the reasoning to not allow posters to attack each other. But to see certain posters constantly belittle, attack, and bad-mouth both DL and TM, complete with profanities, is simply wrong. Criticism is fine and welcome. But this consistently negative vitriol is tiring and below this forum.
As an aside, your reports have been very enlightening. Thanks.
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I’m sorry Matt R, I must be mistaking Pittsburgh’s wingers with highly talented players.
The point is, a guy like Malkin will get his points no matter where he plays because he is ridiculously talented and wants it. Would he score more playing with Kovalchuk than with Fedetenko? Duh. But he doesn’t slump and NOT score because his wingers aren’t the best around.
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EJ,
Though I don’t agree with the opinions of the posters that denigrate TM or Lombardi, as long as they’re doing it in a reasonable fashion, which I think they have been, you can’t deny them their place to voice their opinion just ’cause you don’t like it. I didn’t see anything inappropriate and I’ve been commenting all day at “work”, haha
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This is VERY simple to understand. Let’s just use an example: If player 1 is capable of playing at level C and plays at a level C every night, that is fine. If player 2 is capable of playing at level A , but MOST nights only plays at level C, that is not OK. If you know a player can play at a higher level, but just doesn’t…….. that is the whole problem here. I like Frolov, seems like a good guy. This TEAM cannot tolerate him playing a level C when he can clearly play at an A level.
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EJ,
I’m not a huge fan of arguments that get too out of hand and personal, but why is it wrong for people to attack DL and TM in whatever way they see fit? It’s not really my style, and I often just skip over several comments, but I don’t begrudge anyone their right to be harsh.
In fact, I love that really only because of the internet and a site like Rich’s, we can be heard. If not by those we wish would listen, then at least by each other.
You can turn your nose up at those with highly intense and sometimes downright hateful opinions, but I don’t think it is fair to just label it as ‘wrong’.
If criticism is fine and welcome, who are you or Rich or anyone really to deny a person the right to express his opinion his way? If cursing is the problem, I am fairly certain there are widgets and things out there that the people at LAKINGS.com could install to filter it out if it really bothered them.
Are some of the scathing remarks in poor taste? Sure.
But wrong?
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I forgot to add that some of the constant repetition of certain things regardless of its relation to the topic does grind on me.
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Well said JDM. I am just happy to finally have a place to voice my opinion and listen to others. Everyone should remember that we may disagree at times but we are all here for the same reason.
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Matt R-
This plays right into what I’ve been saying about the difference between a star and Frolov. If Malkin comes onto this team and playis on the third line with Simmonds and Zeus, HE TEARS IT UP! Why? I can tell you it’s not because of his linemates necessarily, it’s because he plays the game with PASSION and FIRE and he would use his skill to do things all by himself if need be. I’ve watched him do just that in Pittsburgh the last 2 years!
Would Frolov take that kind of initiative? Or do we have to put others around him to ‘Motivate’ his skill to grace us with it’s presence. I want SELF MOTIVATED players, not guys who need to be motivated to play. That’s just ridiculous. Name ANY great player that had to be ‘Motivated’ to play at the top of his game. Really. I can’t think of one. That would tell me Frolov is not a GREAT player. He COULD be, but he isn’t NOW.
We’ve waited 7 years. How many more coaches and GM’s is it gonna take before we actually make Frolov accountable?!?!
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Hmm.
Brown (on 2nd line): 5 points
Frolov (on 3rd line): 5 points
Quick: .891 (NHL 30th) 3.15 GAA (NHL 26th).
And Frolov is sucking. Sure..
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Nothing like a little controversy to bring the Lombardi/Murray haters out in full force. This all lies squarely on Frolov, no matter how much you disagree with Murrays tactics. When you get called into your bosses office and then show no response when asked to get things together, what does that say about you? Taylor and Andy Murray had the same issues too, so don’t try and say it’s all on this years management.
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Alot of people talking about lack of heart with Fro.
I wonder how he scored those 32 goals last year. A flukE 32 times?
They are misusing him and have taken his heart out of the game. He is gonna go to a real team and tear it up!!
And Im guessing we will still stink.
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Anyone making the kind of money these guys make, especially for playing a sport they love, should bring their “A” game EVERY NIGHT!
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I got no problem with Dean and Terry calling out Fro, it’s about time. Sure they’re making an example out of the guy, but I don’t care. We all love Fro, but he’s an under achiever just like the entire organization has been for the last decade. We finally have a decent group of players here with a ton of potential, they need to know that management is done making excuses for NOT winning. The players play the games, the players will be accountable.
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Some of you seem to think the only zone that matters is the offensive zone. Its in so many posts here. Pay closer attention to the defensive zone and you will see why certain players get to play other players don’t stick.
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I feel like I’ve seen this before with DL.
x player this… X player that… X player traded.
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Rich,
I would love it if you can interview Terry Murray once more and ask him about the hypocrisy in his constant benching of Frolov.
If I recall correctly, last year O’Sullivan did not play well at all and he kept playing him and didn’t bench him. Same thing this year with Brown, who was cold for the first 6 games of the season. Why didnt’ he cut Brown’s minutes?
Thanks
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Face it Murray supporters, Murray himself has admitted that he didn’t sense the “poor play” was that bad until he watched it in replays.
He doesn’t understand how the game is played anymore. The game has passed him by.
His biggest accomplishment with LA is setting the franchise record for being shut out.
He called Labarbara the no. 1 until the day we dumped him.
He played Calder 17 minutes a night before the trade deadline and then burried him the rest of the season.
He doesn’t understand that we NEED Harrold on defense because we need more skill at the back.
He’s now thrown Lewis under the bus, and for what…because he’s not Dave Lowry or Scott Melanby?
No coach worth his salt would claim a tying goal at the end of the first period decided the game.
Again, try reviewing your persistence at playing Williams on the point, because THAT is what created the game winner.
To be a good coach you need to develop your young players.
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Just chiming in on how we all relate to each other…
In a round about way, I actually agree with EJ’s remarks.
If it’s “wrong” for commenters to “attack” each other (which is waaayy to strong a word for telling someone to screw themselves), then why isn’t it also “wrong” for us to attack a member of the Kings? Simply because they are a “public” person? Technically, if you are a commenter, you are public too. This is a public forum after all.
But if it’s a moral objection that we “attack” each other (which is clearly the case on this site) the same standard should apply when “attacking” TM or DL or anyone. There’s no denying this basic logic, yet it continues unabated. And what happens is human beings become become unglued. They snap. Hence EJ’s post today and Cynic’s post yesterday. When we watch someone get lambasted, for instance DL, and we like that person, then we want to come to his defense. This is only natural, yet we are asked to curtail our response in a disproportionate manner because of one person’s moral objection.
Clearly, I vehemently disagree with the any kind of censorship, especially the kind that goes on here, which has been at times completely arbitrary. I say as long as it’s not illegal a commenter should have the right to say whatever they want, regardless of what anyone else thinks.
However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences! A community that is strong can withstand anything that one person says and if that person is shunned, ridiculed, laughed at, or told to go to hell, then it is as it should be. What are we afraid of?
The fact of the matter is, this kind of thing can easily be handled in a much more effective manner, yet it’s not. And the more popular the blog becomes, the more of a problem it will be.
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This team needs top six talent at the forward position. A trade involving our second most talented, albiet lazy, scorer must bring back a top six forward in return, no less. If that means we toss in a first round pick, additional roster players or any prospect not named Bernier then do it. It’s time to sh*t or get off the pot as my g-pa would say…
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wavesinair,
I guess for me it just becomes wearying. It’s the tone. The more shrill and repetative the arguments become, the more negative the experience on this site becomes. If you require that people have thick skins to read the comments section, then that’s what you’ll get: a small circlejerk of angry people with thick skins (supposedly) slagging each other while everyone else learns to just read Rich’s posts and skips the comments.
I have a wierd feeling that people are pushing it – hoping Rich will intervene so they can go, “Aha – you sold out to the man!”
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johnny says:
frolov..purcell and ersberg to atlanta for kovalchuck and a draft pick?? i like it
I don’t! How about tm, dl for kovalchuk. There gonna be gone anyway so might as well get something before they become fa’s.
Some execellent posts. Frolov paid his dues for seven years on this crappy team and did well last season despite playing on a line most of the season with a player that still has not found his game and another that brought mostly a third gear speed to a game that plays in fouth speed and overdrive. Said players have sucked this year and how long can one/Frolov carry shiptakis for most of last season and the present one.
Frolov should have been thrown a bone this season. Either he responds and plays to his caliber and signs with the Kings or he plays decently with some of the talented playas and increases/maintains his trade value.
Datsyuk knows more about talent than anyone claiming to be mgmt on this team or anyone that thinks he knows posting on this blog.
If someone needs to hit the road jack, it needs to be &utt buds tm and dl.
Kings 3-1. tm is a genius or are we playing a depleted stars team?
Maybe the mascot would be a better fit behind the bench. Maybe he knows how to growl, fire up his players and where to play our best player!
We need a winner in LA this season regardless of which “camp” you support. GEAUX KINGS!!!
PS Ryan Smyth for Captain!
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Aside from not having much time these days, I’ve pretty much given up on participating in the comments sections thanks to the likes of posters like cristobal, and khanon (and their various alter-egos) to name a few. I mean really, how many times do i need to read about how the team “needs more grit” or about how “DL and TM are idiots”. There was a reason some of these guys were banned or warned back when this was over at ITK. Too bad they’ve been given reprieves over here.
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Wow. I totally forgot about this thread, and look how it’s blossomed. Let’s see, where to begin:
Belexes (whatever that means) –
“Bad, Bad way to make your point….Ftorek got fired, Gretzky led the Kinngs to the Stanley Cup Finals….ouch.”
Yes, Ftorek got fired, by Gretzky basically. And then made it to the finals, five years later. Coincidence? I don’t think so.
(pause to indicate sarcasm)
After Robbie, mcNall brought in someone who would do whatever 99 wanted (Webster). That didn’t work so well. And then Melrose, which was fine for a year and then worse than horrible. And then Gretzky demanded a trade. How many seasons did the Kings do better than the Ftorek year? In the eight years of Gretzky, one year they finished with more points than the Ftorek 88 team. Aside from that one team, they didn’t come close to the 88-89 numbers until Andy Murray.
And if Frolov scored 168 points last year, like 99 did that year, Terry Murray would be fired. But he didn’t.
Next up — you pull a quote of mine entirely out of context. Let’s review. Here’s what I actually said, with the fragment you clipped out in bold:
“GMs don’t get their scouting from The Hockey News or TSN or whatever. And anyone who wants him will just convince themselves that Frolov is sucking because he’s pouting because no one in LA loves him and once he’s on (Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, etc.) he’ll be a different player. Just like Patrick O’Sullivan.”
See the difference. And I didn’t say POS was a new player in EDM. I said the management in EDM talked themselves into the whole “change of scenery” argument, when more often than not, a player’s problems and flaws follow him around. Shockingly.
Go Kings Go –
Agreed.
Cricket –
Touche. I was/am shocked. Still appalled that Ivanans has any kind of job. RIchardson has done a good job. Clune would have bumped someone (Richardson or Lewis) had he not been hurt. Most of my surprise comes down to the Moller situation/demotion. I am quite consistent in my Moller love. I stand by it. But you were totally right about the 4th line. I still like my Parse/Stoll/Clune idea, though.
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I never said I was always right, by the way. Whoever said that. Quite the opposite. I am frequently wrong. What sports fan isn’t?
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Big sleazy,
You rock!!! B!!!!
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Quisp,
Ftorek sure went on to prove what a great coach he is!
And I think Mcnall probably left the coaching hiring up to his GM Vachon at the time.
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As others have noted, Frolov doesn’t bring the level of intensity to each shift that Brown, Handzus, and the new first line players do. However, he scores 30 goals a year and most nights plays keep-away for 7-8 minutes. Personally, I think he is a good character, talented player, and fun to watch; a classic King. On the other hand after 25 years of being a fan I wouldn’t mind seeing them win something.
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QUISPY…
all of us here that (virtually) know you have come to expect top-notch posts whenever you decide to chime in…and you didn’t disappoint today either…
spot-on…!
so much has been said by so many…
bottom line…:
i don’t care if yr mario, 99, a.o., sid, gordie, etc…if you can’t convince YOURSELF that you belong on the ice, then you don’t belong…so, i too, have no problem understanding why frolov was scratched…
i’m a huuuuuuuuge frolov fan…
but…
if i was the coach and got that type of response from ANY player, i would also leave his name off the line up card…and tell him to go get a seat with bob and jim (the hockey equivalent of jail), do not pass go or collect $200 ($2 million on the updated version)…
like i said before…
this really, really, really, really sucks for us fans, the kings and for alexander frolov…
to be continued…
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Cristobal -
Robbie Ftorek, since you may be too young (or something) to remember, or care, is — let’s see — where to start…
– he has a couple of Stanley Cup rings, including one year when he was inexplicably fired as the Devils coach with nine games left in the season when he had more than twice as many wins as losses and the team was on the road to an eventual cup. Lou is nutty, but it worked. Can’t take away the fact that that was Ftorek’s hard work at least up to the last couple of weeks. Thus, the Ring.
– he has been AHL coach of the year a couple of times.
– won the Calder Cup as a coach.
– as a player, he was a U.S. Olympic team and National team member. Had a decent NHL career and a great one in the WHA (was MVP twice, I think). Oh, also MVP of the Canada Cup with Team U.S.A..
– he’s in the US Hockey Hall of Fame.
– is 68th overall in games coached in the NHL, 55th in wins, 42nd in winning %. As an NHL coach, he is in some incredibly esteemed company. And a great many of the coaches whose names you know are far far down the list below RF. Most of the names above him in % are legends.
As for the idea that Bruce McNall left it to Rogie Vachon to hire coaches, har de har har. Rogie was a great goalie but please…he was barely a figure-head as a GM. That’s like saying, “I’m sure McNall left that whole Gretzky trade thing to Rogie.” Not. Did you also think Rogie was the one trading for Kurri, Coffey, Stevens, Tochett, etc? All of 99’s buddies…but yeah, sure, it was Rogie.
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“And if Frolov scored 168 points last year, like 99 did that year, Terry Murray would be fired. But he didn’t.”
Ahhh but Frolov turned in very credible numbers despite being in the doghouse without any bones… like he had these assets below:
“Did you also think Rogie was the one trading for Kurri, Coffey, Stevens, Tochett, etc? All of 99’s buddies…but yeah, sure, it was Rogie.”
I bet the great one would have produced more than Frolov-MAYBE- but would have BITCHED about the lack of talent, support and coaching until a change was made.
Maybe Frolov has chosen the higher road by not saying anything.
Maybe that is why we got some energy from the top two lines because NONE OF THOSE GUYS wants to play with simmonds and ‘zus every night.
Gretzky had tools to work with and Frolov has had nothing but b-level talent talent to work with during his stint as a King. Quite a disparity.
Before anyone thinks about incorrectly interpreting that I think Frolov is better than 99 think again. Gretzky had far superior tools/support. Frolov imho overacheived last year and most of his years here as our talent pool is and has been a joke.
Simmonds needs to be sent down even after his so impressive empty netter last night. Where would ‘Zus play on another team? 4th line? or a constant scratch? Pull him off the PK at least.
Get him some decent talent to work with or CRY when he lights it up somewhere else like most do when they leave this disorganization.
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Ok Frolov. Here it is. You were on the first line last season. Here come two players in the off season. They take your place. That is what made you mad. Understand one thing Fro. Your boss in life wants you too work too the fullest. If not you get fired. I am the last person who wants you too go. But you like many other players are over paid. So start earning you money an start playing. I have been an King fan since 1976. Dean Lombardi is the best general manager we ever had.
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Has the trifecta become the Elite 4? Such Naysayers. I have no problem with TM benching Frolov. Not listening to the coach – see you on the bench. No emotion or desire to win – see you on the bench. Put a pass right up the middle that leads to the other team scoring – see you on the bench. This (as DL says) also sends a huge message to the rest of the team. No need to change lines. The coach has spoken, time to put up or shut up.
Also agree with Marleau > Frolov
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Big Slaeazy gets it.
It would be so easy just to switch Fro and Purcell and see what that produces (30+)! but then DimmyDeano would have to keep and pay him what he is worth and he aint gonna do it.
They are just setting up the scenario to get rid of him and deflect the heat.
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