Today is a total rest day for the Kings, with no practice or team responsibilities. The goal of the day, according to Terry Murray, was to get as healthy as possible. The Kings, last night, even took the step of buying additional hotel rooms, so that most players wouldn’t have to double up in rooms. Murray said that, in general, the players are feeling better than yesterday.
It seems as though the full complement of players could be available tomorrow, and Murray indicated that lineup changes could be in store tomorrow, with Peter Harrold and Brad Richardson available and Oscar Moller staying.
MURRAY: “I have some ideas that I’ve been floating around since the end of the game last night. I’m not ready to make a decision on anything yet. If everyone is healthy and ready to go and feels 100 percent, then it’s a good decision I have to make. I’ve got some guys who are hopefully hungry and ready to step in and play at a high level. So I’ll find that out as we get through today and get to the morning skate tomorrow.”
To follow up, I asked Murray if he was planning to make changes that would be considered significant, beyond just what he’s done so far, in tinkering with the fourth line and such. Could a veteran player – Frolov? – end up being scratched to send a message? Probably not, but Murray said significant changes might take place tomorrow.
MURRAY: “I’m thinking that way, yeah. The easiest thing in the world is changing your fourth-line guys or your sixth defenseman. You know, I take Harry (Peter Harrold) out of the game last night, and I had my reasons for doing it, but historically, as coaches in this business throughout the millennium, that’s where it happens all the time. There is a level of accountability and responsibility for everybody. You don’t take your best players out of the lineup because of an off game. You do have meetings and you do back off of minutes, or you do take one of your top players off the power play or off the penalty kill. You make changes to send a message, or to talk and say, `You’ve got to regroup here. If you’re a little off, physically, then backing off the minutes hopefully will refresh you.’
“So there’s different ways of looking at it. You have to have your best players in order to win in this league, and they have to be the best players, every game and every night, in this league, because of the parity that’s out there. Especially for a team that hasn’t been in the playoffs for a lot of years. The L.A. Kings need their best players every night.’’
So is Bernier coming in or something? I don’t know, I see the Kings’ recent woes as needing a different fix than simply swapping the chess pieces around. There seems to be an excuse mentality, a lack of focus, and a lack of drive from even the veteran players. Did anyone else notice Frolov with that huge smile when he was sitting on the bench after his giveaway? I’m a big Fro fan in general but it really gave me the feeling he just doesn’t really care that much.
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What is this obsession with sending a message? You really think “punishment” by sitting players is what will motivate them? If a player needs that type of motivation to start playing well, only to fall off again later, be punished and repeat, he is already a lost cause or no longer cares.
Does the coaching and management of this team know nothing about motivation? Is everything with Murray negative energy and reinforcement in the face of adversity?
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Why do I get the nauseating feeling that theses ‘changes’ are going to have this result:
Smyth-Kopitar-Harrold
Richardson-Stoll-Brown
Purcell-Handzus-Simmonds
Frolov-Moller-Lewis
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Well Zad-
I agree in that it only works with players who care. When I see that smile that the ‘Stache referred to, it makes my blood boil as a fan. I WANT that guy punished, but who’s really going to be punished if we do something?
Maybe Lombardi calls Fro into his office and simply asks him what he wants to do? Do you WANT a trade? Do you WANT to improve and stay? Maybe the simple approach will work. The kid glove thing I think has just made Fro feel comfortable. It’s all speculation. I don’t skate or hang with the team or guy. I’d like to see it solved though.
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Hahah JDM, seriously, that’s Murray’s idea of sending a message. We’ve seen him do that bonehead crap last year too. I like how TM can say in an interview that he understands benching Frolov to send a message is ultimately counter-productive, but yet he doesn’t see the inherent problem with relegating Fro to the 2nd checking line. And seriously, what the hell is with his man-crush on Harrold? I’m sure Peter is the nicest guy in the world but I swear I want to vomit anytime he’s A) on defense or B) above the 4th line.
I thought I was a Terry Murray fan coming into this season, but I have to admit my opinion of him is beginning to erode a bit.
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Some of us cringed when he was named as coach, but that’s another discussion.
Regarding the topic of Harrold, players like him have always permeated this team. Coaches whose systems don’t emphasize the skilled aspects of this game have such attachments to the minimally talented but arguably hard working types. Chartrand, Armstrong, etc.
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(Shudder)
Where’s Williams? He’s not in the doghouse. I’m thinkin:
Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Lewis-Stoll-Brown
Purcell-Handzus-Simmonds
Frolov-Richardson-Moller
Lewis can play all 3 forward positions. Richardson plays better at center. Oscar shoots right.
What scares me about your scenario JDM is that Fro has been put on 4th line duty before by TM. It didn’t change his game any. It simply made us less effective on the forecheck as a team. It would suck if either of our lineups happen, but I think your nausea might be justified.
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You know ‘Stache, Harrold is a coaches dream. Humble, hard-working, just does what he is supposed to and sits down. No BS, no attitude, just a team guy. The fact he plays D- and forward is a huge bonus. A good utility guy is hard to come by in this league (Or any league) and Harry has simply found his ‘niche to stay in the NHL. I like the guy. He’s an inexpensive and somewhat effective stop-gap to fill holes when guys go down. As he grows as a player, he’ll become more effective.
If I’m a coach, I love the flexibility he brings.
If I’m a GM, I love the fact he’s cheap, effective and has the right attitude.
Zad’s assessment is dead on, but every team wants a utility guy regardless. Flkexibility is valuable in this league.
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Hey coach,
Tell this team to stop acting like a bunch of pussies during adversity.
Why the hell was this team “down” during the 1st intermission. Something is not right.
There was a whole 40 minutes of hockey left and they were acting like a bunch of losers. This is a defeatist attitude.
Depression? Lack of emotion?
Maybe there needs to be more positivity in the atmosphere. Obviously this group is fragile. More encouragement is needed.
We’re going to wake up tomorrow morning, have a happy breakfast with each other and prepare for battle with the Stars.
This road trip will still be a success if we go .500
Let’s go boys.
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I’m more ready to point the finger at the coach than the players. Players have no structure, no built in discpline. Murray needs to step his game up more than any player.
Kings have just as much talent, perhaps moreso than Cbus and Phx, yet the Kings are looking up. Lombardi should have used his brain and snatched up Tippet while he had the chance.
With the 10th pick in the 2010 draft, the Kings are proud to select…………
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Hey Cynic,
I definitely see your point about Harrold being a cheap and no-questions-asked utility guy, and unquestionably he’s our most solid 4th-liner.
However, I unfortunately think it speaks to the positional depth of the Kings that Peter Harrold is one of our go-to guys that could find himself on the top line during a wacky TM experiment. I’m not throwing the blame around at anyone for this fact necessarily, as I realize that in the cap era we can’t exactly ice 4 superstar lines, but seeing Harrold log lots of ice time makes me
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JDM, unfortunately your probably right. Although I gotta say, Richardson has been an animal. I’ve been far from a fan, but the guy has been all over the ice, giving 110% every shift. If our go-to-guys played like that then we’d still be talking about our winning streak.
Next topic, Frolov. Dude I love this guy and have been a big supporter, but his head isn’t in to the game. This year he seems distracted. Last night wasn’t his only bad game. Sure he is trying his keep-away type game and gets plenty of time with the puck, but has been turing it over before doing anything with it. We all know that he is a gonner before the trade deadline, I’m starting to hope its sooner than later.
Lastly, what happened to our character?! O’D can’t do it alone. In the past 2-3 games I’ve lost count how many times Kopi got run, including that slew-foot against the Wings. And why are we not taking the body this year? We’re still taking stupid penalties, but not because we’re punishing the opponent. Sure Goats took his share of ridicules penalties, but at least he was carving people up.
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Hopefully the big changes that will be coming is Terry Murray losing his job
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‘Stache-
Can’t argue with you there. I think it might have to do with that ‘Man-Crush’ thing or the fact TM might be trying to show guys that if you play the team game, you get rewarded with minutes. I don’t mind him doing that now, early in the season, as long it’s not the reason we’re losing games. To this point, I don’t believe Harrold is the main problem. After 20 games though, if the message isn’t sent and received by then, you need to change your delivery system because you’re right: Our depth IS suspect and we can’t afford malcontents on this team. Everyone has to fire on all cylinders all the time to make a good playoff run this year.
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Guys, I would bet a candy bar Fro was not “smiling”. He does this frequently. I imagine he is playing with his mouthpiece, or it is simply one of those unconscious habits we all have.
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I like Richardson.
I also didn’t mean to leave out Williams. That was just a mistake on my part. I like Williams too.
I was being mostly snarky. If the lines look anything like that tomorrow I will be surprised and annoyed.
Cynic’s lines look like something we might actually see.
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What a joke.
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I’m really confused as to why harrold was benched. He is one of the hardest working, most responsible players. What message does that send to the other players?
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Lewis on the 2nd line and Fro on fourth?
Wow… if that happens I sure hope the 4th line gets a ton of minutes. I have not seen Lewis do anything to merit that at any position.
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since this is a roster type thread, what is going on with martinez? he is still on the roster, only played in 1game, i remember he got hurt but is not on IR, he just kinda disappeared. anyone know whats up?
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i would like to see some new line combinations. we also need a quarterback dman for our pp…we need a dman how knows how to move the puck from the point adn take shots…QUICK i think has been playing awesome cant really blaming for the loses…he kept us in the game i thought in columbus..made some great save…hope tm adn the boys got things sorted out and i think they will come out with a lot of passion and a lot to prove against the stars.
go kings go
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Seems that a chronic problem for this team–for a few years now–is players getting up for games. I am not sure that there is much that TM can do about this, and it is the players’ responsibility.
I am starting to wonder if this is just an attitude that pervades the culture of the team…
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It makes perfect sense that this team doesn’t come to play because there’s absolutely no character on this club. Every player is soft, with the exception of Brown, Greene, and O’Donnel. When you put together a bunch of soft, characterless players, this is one of the side-effects.
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Ryan Smith and Michael Handzus are soft? Wait, what?
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ugh, SMYTH, whoops
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Smyth is definitely not physical, but I wouldn’t call him soft since he goes in the hard areas. Same goes to Handzus. I’m glad you found two other players on a 20 man roster. Thats what I’m talking about, three gritty players (Brown, Greene, and O’Donnel) and two non-soft players (Smyth and Handzus) is all this team has.
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khanon, aren’t you forgetting Clune, Simmonds, Ivanans…..?
Only because they’re not always dropping their gloves doesn’t mean they are not tough to play against.
Remember, fights don’t win you games, but finishing your checks and play gritty on the forecheck help….
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DOM,
I’m not forgetting Clune, Simmonds, and Ivanans. Clune’s not on the roster, so why would I mention him?? Simmonds is not physical anymore. Ivanans plays 3+ minutes per game, definitely not enough to make up for the rest of the team’s lack of gritt.
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DOM said:
“Remember, fights don’t win you games, but finishing your checks and play gritty on the forecheck help….”
I completely agree, but the problem with this team is that they don’t finish their checks, they don’t play gritty, and there’s no character. Thats the main problem that people don’t seem to see
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khanon, I completely agree. They NEED to finish their checks, play gritty and finally get the passing in order. Yes to all of that.
Though I personally wouldn’t go as far as criticizing their character. I don’t think that’s fair 8 games into the Season, battling a 6-game road-trip and the flu.
Not yet, anyways……. I shall agree with you if we’re looking at the same scenario at the 25 game mark.
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As to forgetting those Players you mentioned, it seems more like Murray keeps forgetting he HAS those players available to do exactly what we’ve been talking about: grit and checking.
You are right, they have not been doing just that in the last few games.
I know Pre-Season games are no measurement in those areas, but sadly enough those games showed us Clune, Simmonds stepping it up.
Ivanans, well, you NEED an enforcer-type out there. Just to send the message ‘be careful, I’m here’…..
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DOM,
I am definitely in favor of dressing an enforcer; in fact, if it was up to me, I would dress both Ivanans and Westgarth, but thats just me and I know I’m in the minority.
I’m not necessarily criticizing the players’ lack of character, I understand that some players are character players and/or gritty players, and some or not. The problem with the way the Kings roster is, is that most of the players are not character or gritty players. Most of them are soft. So thats why I’m not criticizing the actual players, its more of a criticism on management and/or TM for not demanding tough players.
There’s no way the Kings can make the playoffs with the current roster, especially since their top players will either get injured or worn down sooner or later from all the hitting, pushing-around, and cheap shots they take on a game-by-game basis, more than any other team’s top players take…
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“You know ‘Stache, Harrold is a coaches dream. Humble, hard-working, just does what he is supposed to and sits down. No BS, no attitude, just a team guy. The fact he plays D- and forward is a huge bonus. A good utility guy is hard to come by in this league (Or any league) and Harry has simply found his ‘niche to stay in the NHL. I like the guy. He’s an inexpensive and somewhat effective stop-gap to fill holes when guys go down. As he grows as a player, he’ll become more effective.”
Thank god, someone gets it. Harrold is just as you described plus, he’s a smart player. That is why TM loves having this guy out on the ice in crucial situations.
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That’s quite a veneration for a relatively unproven Peter Harrold.
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Someone asked why Harrold sat last game. My guess is there are a coupla reasons.
1- TM wanted an enforcer for Columbus, so he dressed Ivanans.
2- TM preferred Lewis over Harrold for some reason and the only thought I can come up with is he wanted Lewis’s speed over Harrold. I don’t think Lewis has been as good as Harrold quite frankly. That doesn’t bode well for Trevor.
This is going to surprise you ‘Stache, but if Harrold was available, I would bet Detroit would be first in line to get him. No Joke. Don’t forget, Harry has enough respect as an NHL player to be chosen on the USA National team. Learn to love him, ’cause I don’t see him leaving, and quite frankly, I’m glad.
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Is it just me or are the games vs. Columbus brutally boring? I know the jackets do a great job of clogging up the neutral zone and limiting offensive chances but once again I noticed very little offensive flow last night. Thought we played a great road period in the first. Surprised that the team was so down during the first intermission. Would of liked to have seen more spark in the second period. I thought Quick played better than he did against Detriot. Brown seems to have more jump to his step and I thought he has played well the last 3 games. Kind of worried about our PK. The Frolov issue is puzzling. I feel like he is not getting enough ice time and we are not using him right. It’s a long season, team looked tired last night. I think we will see a better effort vs. dallas.
Columbus is a legit team this year.
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PP aint good cause we dont have Kyle Quincy anymore! as for changes. im told Terry Murray will put himself on that 2nd line with jim fox and Daryl Evans! haha
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I seem to remember a line combination of Frolov-Kopitar-Brown last year or the year before. They seemed to click but it gave the Kings only one scoring line so they had to break up the line for the sake of balance. Now with additional firepower, I say put that line back together. Smyth-Stoll-Williams as a tenacious 2nd line. Purcell-Handzus-Simmonds as the 3rd line. I would bring in Westgarth since Ivanans is not really adding any value right now.
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‘Stache re Frolov’s smile:
It’s a defensive response. My kid (5) smiles when he’s done something wrong. It doesn’t have to mean he’s happy or clueless or unmotivated. It may mean he’s humiliated.
Khanon:
Lack of “character” has not cost the Kings any games. Lack of scoring, yes; focus, yes; poor puck support, yes; stupidity, especially re penalties (see Ivanans), yes; poor on face-offs, yes; poor penalty killing, yes; poor power play — especially on the points, yes.
I will say I find the penalty killing stat fascinating, since the main piece of last year’s PK machine that’s missing this year is…wait for it…Denis Gauthier Jr..
I always liked him.
JDM, re lines:
I actually kind of like your lines, as long as you swap the 2nd and 4th lines.
Smyth-Kopitar-Harrold
Frolov-Moller-Lewis
Purcell-Handzus-Simmonds
Richardson-Stoll-Brown
Actually, let’s tweak that a bit. I don’t think Williams has been a problem. Sorry, “Harry.” And Lewis would be better than Purcell on the Handzus line (he’s very solid defensively). I would go with
Smyth/Kopitar/Williams
Frolov/Moller/Simmonds
Lewis/Handzus/Brown
Richardson/Stoll/Purcell
If Frolov is due for a “time out,” swap Purcell and Frolov.
I will say it again, I would not be at all surprised to see a Marleau trade before this season is done.
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1) the “grit” doesn’t get it done. See, all Stanley Cup winners for the last 20 years. IMO, the Ducks were the dirtiest team to win the cup yet they had extreme skill players like Selanne, Neidermeyer and Pronger, a physical player with skill. detroit plays without ANY thugs and they’ve been the best team year in and year out for years and years. in hockey, the best teams only win 60% of the time.
2) 3 games does not a season make. I think it wrong for Murray to panic. Play the guys you chose and do not f’ around with line changes every ten days.
3) Maybe the tactics are bad, but I’m in on longer term rebuild plan. Maybe they should keep guys a bit longer but I thought this year would suck for the kings and only hope I’m wrong. At minimum, the Kings need a fast, scoring wing and another strong center besides Kopitar. Obviously, they need a time machine: age Schenn 2-3 years; reduce Palffy 10 years; sign them both to underpaid contracts: then the Kings are really Kings.
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on pp
smyth kopitar frolov
jack drew
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put fro in second line
Brown Simmonds Frolov
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I’d like the Kings to get a Enforcer who can FINISH a check without finishing the check into the boards instead of the other players body. Ivanans has finished more boards already this season then players he hit all of last season.
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Loktionov-Moller-Brown!!!
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I agree with GG. The Frolov on the checking line experiment is over. Put Frolov back on one of the scoring lines. (see my previous post October 18, 2009 at 7:00 PM)
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Q-
I gotta disagree with a few points here:
- I disagree with the lack of focus and puck support. 5-on-5 play has been exceptional, except for the scoring, which comes when it comes. Almost every team we’ve played so far has mentioned that we controlled play in the game, a few even mentioned DOMINATED play. Like I mentioned earlier, I’d like to see a stat called ‘O-Zone Time of Possession’. I think it would be very telling here. I can tell you that I’ve enjoyed watching the game play BECAUSE we have the puck more often and are not sitting in our shells waiting for a mistake to try and (weakly) capitalize on like last year. Special teams I can’t argue one bit with.
For your lineup, I’d rather trade Stoll than put him on the 4th line making 4 mil a year. That’s wasted money. I’d rather lose money and value in a trade than over the long haul in games played (and most likely lost). Stoll has to earn his $$$ or you could put him on waivers. Now I don’t want to be 2 mil on the hook for 2 more years, but then again, I have a very inexpensive Loktionov who could fit nicely in Stoll’s spot for those 2 years that might make that cap hit acceptable if he’s ready. Stoll playing 6 minutes a game for that $$$ is just crazy. I know TM has done it before and IIRC, it didn’t work to well.
Take the lines I posted earlier:
Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Lewis-Stoll-Brown
Purcell-Handzus-Simmonds
Frolov-Richardson-Moller
Lewis can play all 3 forward positions. Richardson plays better at center. Oscar shoots right.
Simply switch Lewis and Purcell because of your reasons (Lewis is better on D-). Now Purcell shoots right but is playing on the Left. Could that be part of his slow start issues?
I’m good with a Marleau trade as long as Stoll is involved.
Are you comparing Frolov to a 5 year old? That could open up all sorts of discussion…
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Trade for Kovalchuk, bring up Loktionov and, dependent upon whether he is involved in a deal for Kovy, put the “other Jon”, Bernier, in nets for two games just see how he plays.
I’d send Purcell or Lewis down, likely Purcell because Lewis seems to be a better 2-way forward.
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How can anyone in these threads say that Purcell has been a problem? Coach has been saying nothing but good things about his play this season. Besides, do anyone watch the games? This kid is playing his heart out. If I were in charge, I’d try him on the top line at this point in one of two changes that can be attempted.
Purcell / Kopi / Williams
Smyth / Stoll / Brown
Fro (or Oscar really) / Handz / Simmonds
The other option would be to switch Williams and Brown to give us
Smyth / Kopi / Brown
Purcell / Stoll / Williams
Etc, Etc, Etc.
Either way, change could be good for this team but I doubt that Coach will give up on teh starting lineup totally for the entire year.
Test the waters I say.
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Cynic -
Can’t say I disagree with anything you said. As for Stoll: I don’t care how much he makes. Once he’s here, he’s here, and I would put him on the fourth line. And, yeah, I would absolutely trade him if I could. He is, I think, the most tradeable signed player we have, assuming he is, or gets, healthy. He’s not part of any kind of future plan for the Kings, at least not as a top six guy.
I bet you we see Scott Parse before this season is out. I think Parse/Stoll/Clune would be a fine fourth line. Something like:
Smyth/Kopitar/Williams
Frolov/Moller/Simmonds
Purcell/Handzus/Brown
Parse/Stoll/Clune
(Lewis and Richardson)
That’s what I would do, anyway.
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The Kings will continue sucking until they get a very solid goalie such as Nabokov, Luongo, Kiprusoff, or Khabibulin. Enough garbage goalies!!!
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